Chit-Chat: What's On Your Mind Today?

[ECM1231]

12 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I tend to be a sensitive person and people mean a lot to me.  Unfortunately they often mean more to me than I mean to them. 

Story of my life. 

[Absolom]

True.  People have different personality types.  None are bad or wrong, they're just different.  The problems arise when we think or feel that everyone thinks or feels the same way we do.  My mother never did understand me, but thankfully in my 20s I went to therapy for something else and was introduced to the different types.  At least then I could make peace with the things Mom said and sometimes gently help her get past some things.   

[Ancaster]

On 6/3/2024 at 3:24 PM, bluegirl147 said:

A few years I noticed I was usually the person who texted people first when it came to just wanting to chat.  I decided to stop doing that.  And you know what happened?  I started texting with fewer people.   I'm pretty sure there are some people who still haven't noticed they haven't gotten a text from me in a few years.  And that is OK.  As you get older when it comes to friends quality becomes more important than quantity.

One thing I've realized is that I'm single and most of my friends are married, so they have, frankly, different priorities as to who they might spend their limited free time with.  I'm also retired, whereas most of my friends still work.  I also don't have any family who I see regularly or talk to, whereas most of my friends do.  This means that I am often the one to text or call.  It used to bother me, but now I'm fine with it.

Fortunately, like @bluegirl147 mentions in the comment below, I like doing things by myself too, but I have also branched out and do some things that are completely separate from my friends.  For example, I volunteer for hospice, and once a fortnight I go to a Meetup event to play cards.  Both of these are the result of realizing I needed to expand my horizons.  I'm not friends with anyone from these two groups, but the former is extremely rewarding, and the second is just plain fun.

On 6/4/2024 at 6:18 AM, Yeah No said:

It also hurts when I write something heartfelt and it gets ignored by everyone meanwhile everyone else gets hearts and thumbs up and all that for every little fart and sneeze they post about.  I need to know I'm appreciated otherwise it really starts to hurt after a while.  And I don't think I'm doing anything wrong.  I admit I'm developing a complex about it and I don't think it's all in my head.  What did I do so wrong to deserve the cold shoulder?  You'd think I was the most awful person or constantly spewed garbage or something.....Sorry, now I really am spewing, LOL. 😉

FaceBook has weird algorithms in terms of what shows up on your feed.  I have only a few FB friends and I rarely post, but FB will post endless ads or news articles or Nigella Lawson recipes, or things that they think I'll be interested in because I'm member of a group, before they post something a friend may have posted that day about their farts and sneezes.  If I do post, I don't generally get many likes, and I put it down to my friends not actually seeing it.

On 6/4/2024 at 8:47 AM, bluegirl147 said:

I much prefer to be alone.  I have always been that way.  When I was a kid I would play with other kids and through high school did things with friends but as an adult I really leaned into be a loner. And I don't mean loner in a scary way. I just enjoyed doing things by myself.  Movies. Going out to eat. Traveling.  Partly because that is just my personality and partly because it was easier. Asking people to do things and being told no can really affect you so I just stopped asking. It's hard to not think you are the problem especially when you know they are doing things with other people. So for my own emotional well being I do things by myself. I don't have to wait on someone. I don't have someone hurrying me up. I know that doesn't work for some people but for me it's what I like.

 

Edited June 7 by Ancaster

[oliviabenson]

2 hours ago, ECM1231 said:

Story of my life. 

Same here 

[Absolom]

I left here and went to check some other daily reading spots and came upon this partial quote that is so appropriate to our discussion:

Quote

Every relationship is based or founded on something. For example, some relationships are based on the fact that both people work for the same company, attend the same school, or sharing a similar interest in a hobby or sport.

With all of relationships, once a common bond is no longer present, the relationship will tend to deteriorate. For example, once a child graduates from high school and moves off to college, he or she will probably lose most of the relationships formed with classmates, because school is no longer a common bond and thus there is nothing holding the relationship together.

 

[emma675]

And let's be honest, sometimes the problem is us. Sometimes a person can be too needy or too standoffish, talks/posts too much or not enough, is too loud or too quiet, needs too much or too little from others, etc. Friendships ebb and flow, even longstanding, seemingly close ones. And sadly, not all of them last.

[Lisa418722]

10 hours ago, PRgal said:

You got the invite on a Tuesday for the following Saturday?  Sounds like you weren’t even on the B list but the Z list!  How awful of her!

Yeah, I had to laugh because it felt like, "I forgot to send her an invitation and now she knows when we're getting married."  I miss the teen years/young adulthood friendship, but we are completely different in so many ways and I don't think we would have anything in common now.  

9 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

It's hard to trust new people. I don't blame you for being cautious.

Thanks.  I've been burned too many times by people I would have said were friends.  While I want to make friends, I'm more likely to sit back and watch others. If I'm being completely honest, I do wish I had friendships like some people I know. 

[isalicat]

This discussion makes me grateful again that I was an only child, and in childhood preferred reading to doing much of anything else (especially as I generally found other kids either too stupid or too cruel to want to be around much), so I am wonderfully comfortable being alone and never seem to get enough of being "left alone" so I can get some reading done! I had a wonderful husband for 41-1/2 years who entirely understood me (he's been in heaven for 4-1/2 years now), and out in the world I am very extroverted and social, but I really need my alone time and keep my circle of dear-friends-that-can-bug-me-anytime quite small. And, which is both a good and bad thing, I care very little for what others think about me so if someone doesn't contact me that I thought was a friend, if they were not in that super small circle of dear friends, oh well....c'est la. 😸

[Anela]

I didn't mind being alone, when this house was a lot noisier. I can remember looking forward to days when I would have the house all to myself. When it started to get to me, my parents would be on their way home. I've just had too much time to myself. 

11 hours ago, emma675 said:

And let's be honest, sometimes the problem is us. Sometimes a person can be too needy or too standoffish, talks/posts too much or not enough, is too loud or too quiet, needs too much or too little from others, etc. Friendships ebb and flow, even longstanding, seemingly close ones. And sadly, not all of them last.

It can be, but I'm one of those people who can be hard to get to know, *or* I can overshare. I remember when I realized I was going to have to open up, if I was really going to have good friends again, so I just started spilling. 

Anyway, any issues have also been reminders to set and remember my own boundaries. Because I don't feel that people are disposable, but like @Yeah No I can be seen that way. I was a people pleaser, to a point. There are people who have been in my life since I was a kid, but they are so far away. 

I made a list of goals the other night, and I don't know how far I'm going to get. We'll see. 

Re: gardening. My seeds didn't do well, so I bought a lot of tomato plants, that were cheaper at a local farm, than the stores like Lowe's. I've started more seeds, just to see how they do, and I'll probably be going back to that farm. She had so much to choose from, but the signs were confusing, and she was just about to close. It was inspiring, and I wish I'd known the place existed, back in March. It might have got me past the depression/mental block I have going on. Tonight, I put on my headphones, started "Only Murders in the Building" and tried again, sitting on the deck, because my cat got out again. That's another goal: be outside a lot more. 

Edited June 5 by Anela

[Anela]

On 6/2/2024 at 9:20 PM, Dimity said:

I remember a few years ago my Mom being a little critical about the proliferation of names like Braydon, Jaydon and Kaydon.  She acted like this was a new phenomenon.  I pointed out that the names may be new (or certainly newish) but the name she gave me back in the day always meant I went through my entire school career with at least 2, if not 3 other girls in my class with the same name.  I can understand parents trying to give their child an unusual name. Asterick may be going a bit too far though...

My first name is Angela, and I've had some people pronounce it Angle-a. :) I meant to quote someone else on this, too. I could share my last name, because it turns out women with my name are a dime a dozen, but I'm sure it's against the rules. 

My name wasn't so common in England, when I was a kid. In high school, I had one girl come up to me and shake my hand, because I was the only other Angela she'd met there. 

20 hours ago, Yeah No said:

 

It also hurts when I write something heartfelt and it gets ignored by everyone meanwhile everyone else gets hearts and thumbs up and all that for every little fart and sneeze they post about.  I need to know I'm appreciated otherwise it really starts to hurt after a while.  And I don't think I'm doing anything wrong.  I admit I'm developing a complex about it and I don't think it's all in my head.  What did I do so wrong to deserve the cold shoulder?  You'd think I was the most awful person or constantly spewed garbage or something.....Sorry, now I really am spewing, LOL. 😉

If it's any consolation, I haven't been spending much time on FB, but when I have visited, I get all kinds of recommended pages to follow, instead of posts from my friends. Someone I know, mentioned this last week. She said, "If I haven't interacted with you recently, it's because this is all I see" and posted a list she'd copied from her feed. 

18 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I'm old, so therapy and mental health diagnoses were not cool with parents when I was a kid. So I never thought about my being "divergent" until someone would remark about it — which did happen regularly. Fortunately I focussed on enough things that also brought praise, so it balanced out a bit. 
This👆 relates to the friendship discussion in a way that may help some feel better about the "did I do something wrong?" question. 
I like people, but I like being alone more — which seems to be a "divergent" trait. I am a great occasional friend, but I am a terrible "real" friend. 
So, yes, you might have done something "wrong." We all do lots of "wrong" stuff. But mostly we realize it and correct it and our friends get over it. 
But sometimes people just want to cut back on their friend-time because they need alone-space, and that means cutting out some friends. 

I can be a good "real" friend, or I used to be. But with things I've mentioned here before: all of the moving around, the bullying, and then the weird stuff I've dealt with online (someone harassing me and some friends, just a whole strange "thing"), and then my sister, and all of that, I am different. I was practically feral for a while. People used to really like me, when they got to know me. Some still do, but for different reasons, maybe (I'm more outspoken now). But I'm flaky with communication, because of everything. I feel like I flatlined emotionally, and have been trying to figure it all out again. 

18 hours ago, PRgal said:

Autism wasn't something girls were flagged for in the 80s and 90s either.  Unless you were non-verbal, teachers wouldn't know what to look for.  And mental healthcare such as therapy is STILL extremely stigmatized in East Asian/Confucian cultures due to traditions and beliefs about harmony and whatnot.  It's really hard to erase views that are thousands of years old.  I am very open about seeing a therapist and have written about it in the past.  My cousins (including those from my generation) and my parents think I'm absolutely CRAZY for sharing.  I think some feel embarrassed about it.

I was reading about ADHD, back in 2006, and could relate to a lot of what I saw. I see it now, too, when I read posts from women online, who are diagnosed, or testing for a diagnosis. I also saw something when I was on tiktok: a woman talking about autism, and things she hadn't known were considered symptoms. I had all but one of them. I can't remember what they were now. I'm not sure about that, but I have been reading.

Someone recommended edibles to me, to help me sleep. I've never bought anything like that, and have no idea where to look. She recommended somewhere online, and I'm going to look for the link, but it struck me how I was such a "good girl". Helping to raise my sister, I didn't even sneak out of the house. I didn't want to be another worry for my mum, and later on my dad, too. I'm talking about this, because I mentioned it to my dad, and he laughed and said, "You don't need to be getting into that." I've never even tried it. My mum did, and it made her cry, and dad tried it with his friends, as a teenager, too. I pointed that out to him: that maybe I DO need to try that. 

Sorry this is so long. I've been pretty quiet offline, I guess this is the result. 

[kristen111]

16 hours ago, ECM1231 said:

Story of my life. 

No, not you.  Let’s get real here.  You all forgot to mention some of us have needy husbands (their right), adult married children, grandkids to contend with, everyday.  Is always something with them, and we don’t have the time to pacify veryone.  We are not Superwomen.   Life would be so much easier if we only had ourselves to take care of, but we don’t.  We don’t have the time and energy to deal with everyone.  Not complaining, but just sayin how it goes when a woman is responsible for her household, aging parents, and all that goes with it.  It’s not easy to grow up a family.  There wer days when I rushed my two little kids at 9 pm to the doctor because they had asthma and couldn’t breathe.  I’d all three shots didn’t work, off to emergency we would go.  After those episodes, when I had to handle things myself, (husband workd nights) I vowed never to complain again.  Then,we had the in-laws to contend with.  Charming.  I’m shocked I’m still alive.  So @ECM1231, I get you loud n clear.

[bluegirl147]

11 hours ago, isalicat said:

(especially as I generally found other kids either too stupid or too cruel to want to be around much)

I find this to also apply to adults as well.  One reason why I have so few friends is because I simply do not want to be around people who would rather talk about something they saw on Tik Tok instead of having an intelligent conversation.  Or people who have to drop something political in every conversation. 

2 hours ago, Anela said:

If it's any consolation, I haven't been spending much time on FB, but when I have visited, I get all kinds of recommended pages to follow, instead of posts from my friends.

I hate this.  My feed is filled with so many ads and recommendations.  I thought Zuckerberg wanted FB to bring people together. Guess he meant bring FB users together with Temu.

13 hours ago, Lisa418722 said:

If I'm being completely honest, I do wish I had friendships like some people I know. 

Having watched SATC multiple times I found myself wanting close friendships like those women had.  TV and movies always make it look so easy to have close friendships.

 

[Annber03]

2 hours ago, Anela said:

My first name is Angela, and I've had some people pronounce it Angle-a. :).

That's my first name, too, and I get the same thing sometimes. Either that or, like I said in another post, people want to spell it "Angelia". Which would give it a whole new pronunciation. 

[Caoimhe]

3 hours ago, Anela said:

My first name is Angela, and I've had some people pronounce it Angle-a. :) I meant to quote someone else on this, too. I could share my last name, because it turns out women with my name are a dime a dozen, but I'm sure it's against the rules. 

My name wasn't so common in England, when I was a kid. In high school, I had one girl come up to me and shake my hand, because I was the only other Angela she'd met there. 

If it's any consolation, I haven't been spending much time on FB, but when I have visited, I get all kinds of recommended pages to follow, instead of posts from my friends. Someone I know, mentioned this last week. She said, "If I haven't interacted with you recently, it's because this is all I see" and posted a list she'd copied from her feed. 

I can be a good "real" friend, or I used to be. But with things I've mentioned here before: all of the moving around, the bullying, and then the weird stuff I've dealt with online (someone harassing me and some friends, just a whole strange "thing"), and then my sister, and all of that, I am different. I was practically feral for a while. People used to really like me, when they got to know me. Some still do, but for different reasons, maybe (I'm more outspoken now). But I'm flaky with communication, because of everything. I feel like I flatlined emotionally, and have been trying to figure it all out again.  

The former German chancellor, Angela Merkel, was pronounced that way. Facebook has been destroyed there is so much “suggested” trash there now that I tend to bookmark my Groups page (sewing/quilting/crafts) and go to that instead. Often with my FB friends I have to search their name if I want to see what they’ve posted recently. I’m trying to get past the hurt seeing photos of events posted that I wasn’t even invited to, I’m just very weird because if I *was* invited I’d be stressed about it and not want to attend anyway. Maybe I feel like I “should” want to be more social?

I’ve often said that if mental health diagnoses had been a thing when I was young I’m sure I would have one. I don’t really have friends and one thing that struck me in the NYT article was the woman who posted about having no one to call in an emergency. It’s one of the huge battles in my brain about “where should we live”. We’re very fortunate to have a choice, I know that no place is perfect, but the anxiety is always there. My husband would be happier leaving here and moving back but doesn’t believe I’ll settle back in well - and he is most likely right about that.  I would really miss the happiness of warm sunny summers.

There have been a lot of moves in my life as well (14 schools over 12 years) and bullying in my teen years that still affects me so I understand some of where you’re coming from. I don’t expect I will ever figure it out, but at my age it’s less important so I just concentrate on the present moment and try to let the rest go.

[Yeah No]

23 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

I always say life is like high school.  There are cliques. And "cool kids" and the outcasts.  I know people I went to high school with who are still trying to be friends with the cool kids from high school. One woman cleans the former cool kid Queen's house.  For free.  And what made me sad was my son when he was in school it was the same. The cool kids from my time now had kids who were considered the cool kids.  I feel sorry for my oldest granddaughter's generation (she is 11) because they don't know life before social media.  Social media has really done a number on everyone. From 9-90.

As you get older you have situational friends.  Work friends. Your kid's friend's parents.  Neighbors.  And when your situation changes you lose those friends. So I think part of it is circumstances and part of it as we get older we change.  I now have a list of things that are dealbreakers for me.  I also live in an area where I don't have a lot in common with people.  I think that is true for a lot of people.

That's interesting, I know people like that too who are always trying to be liked by the people that never liked them in high school and it does seem pathetic.  I would never do that on SM or anywhere.  I really don't care to be liked by everyone but losing enough friends and experiencing big losses in the friend department can make you feel the need to feel appreciated.  I also have no family left so that's an issue too, other than my husband and his family but that's a little different.

I think the biggest blow to my friend situation was when I moved up to this area 23 years ago which is about 110 miles away from NYC.  I never felt this way back when I was closer to NY even though I didn't have tons of friends and acquaintances there either and didn't really care to.  It was just a different feeling.  Moving up here was a culture shock for me and I didn't feel much in common with a lot of people in this area, especially the women.  Being a New Yorker in New England can get you disliked just on that alone.  It's true, I know it wasn't in my head!  So that was always an issue for me.  I grew up feeling like no one liked me, then I overcame that to a point only to move somewhere where people really DIDN'T like me because I was "different" and that didn't help.  I don't need everyone to love me but it's sure isolating when you move to a place that presses all your buttons and you're too far away to be closer to the friends you had in your old area.

21 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

I much prefer to be alone.  I have always been that way.  When I was a kid I would play with other kids and through high school did things with friends but as an adult I really leaned into be a loner. And I don't mean loner in a scary way. I just enjoyed doing things by myself.  Movies. Going out to eat. Traveling.  Partly because that is just my personality and partly because it was easier. Asking people to do things and being told no can really affect you so I just stopped asking. It's hard to not think you are the problem especially when you know they are doing things with other people. So for my own emotional well being I do things by myself. I don't have to wait on someone. I don't have someone hurrying me up. I know that doesn't work for some people but for me it's what I like.

I'm an introvert so I prefer to be alone too, although there's a difference between choosing to be alone and being forced to be alone when you don't want to be.  It's not like I need friends to make me feel good about myself.  I just need friends period.  This is not directed at you at all, but I don't know why needing friends to show appreciation for you is often seen as being too dependent on what others think of you.  We all have those needs and I think to deny them is more of a problem than to admit and feel them. 

Again, this is definitely NOT directed at you, but when people really are shunning you if it doesn't bother you great for you, but I am a "people person" by nature so feeling that people I thought liked me are shunning me is going to hurt.  And I won't accept that letting it hurt me is a problem.  Not letting it hurt and anger me is in my opinion a bigger problem.  I didn't study psychology and learn what people need in order to deny what I need in my own life.  Again, if other people don't need those things, great for them, but it's no shame on me for needing that and being hurt when it doesn't happen.  It's only natural.

1 hour ago, bluegirl147 said:

Having watched SATC multiple times I found myself wanting close friendships like those women had.  TV and movies always make it look so easy to have close friendships.

Yeah, I agree with that, especially because it was set in NYC and reminded me of my life there which had more friends in it for sure.

[Yeah No]

23 hours ago, Absolom said:

She had left the past behind and didn't have any wish to revisit it.  It wasn't personal, just she'd left that part of her life and moved on.  You sound so much like my mother.  I spent decades telling her that her self-worth was not tied up in how other people responded to her.  Their problems were not hers to heal or to even think about. 

Yeah but when it's your BEST FRIEND it's a little different.  She was the ONE PERSON I called a friend when I was a kid and I was her only friend too.  Think about it.  THE ONLY ONE.  And she knew that!  When that person rejects you it's not just about your self worth being too dependent on anything.  Sorry, but I won't accept feeling bad about that as my problem.  The problem was all hers.  If she is that damaged that she needs to reject her one true friend from childhood, I think the problem is more with her than with me and she's the one that needs to be told that, not me.  It's not just that she's "different" than me but what she did was all kinds of messed up.  A little empathy from her to me would have been nice.  I think what she did was ultimately selfish and cruel.  Sure, I feel sorry for her but I am entitled to feel bad about it.

My parents kept in touch with their childhood friends.  My mother looked up long lost friends and had reunions.  None of them rejected my parents.  I can just imagine how hurtful it would have been for them if they had been.  My parents didn't grow up in a place and time where people were as cliquey and mean as the people where I grew up.  That's why I hid my being bullied from them.  That wasn't in their experience AT ALL.  I grew up around a lot of extremely dysfunctional people looking back on it and that's all on THEM, not me.  I won't accept that there's something wrong with me for feeling bad about the way they treated me.

18 hours ago, Absolom said:

True.  People have different personality types.  None are bad or wrong, they're just different.  The problems arise when we think or feel that everyone thinks or feels the same way we do.  My mother never did understand me, but thankfully in my 20s I went to therapy for something else and was introduced to the different types.  At least then I could make peace with the things Mom said and sometimes gently help her get past some things.   

I studied MBTI personality theory in depth and one danger with this is excusing people as being "different" but OK based on different Type preferences when what they're doing is not a function of their Type and is really NOT OK.  Type preferences are neither good nor bad but when people do hurtful things to each other Type shouldn't be used as a catch-all excuse to absolve them of their misdeeds.  Just my opinion.

Edited June 5 by Yeah No

[bluegirl147]

13 minutes ago, Caoimhe said:

. I’m trying to get past the hurt seeing photos of events posted that I wasn’t even invited to, I’m just very weird because if I *was* invited I’d be stressed about it and not want to attend anyway.

I totally understand this.  It's not that I want to go to events but geez it sure would be nice to be asked. 

12 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

This is not directed at you at all, but I don't know why needing friends to show appreciation for you is often seen as being too dependent on what others think of you. 

We all need to feel appreciated.  Something as simple as a stranger telling me I love your shoes makes my day. We all want to be liked. It's human nature.  For me personally my life is happier when I keep my circle small. But yeah it would be nice sometimes to have someone to do things with. 

16 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

Again, this is definitely NOT directed at you, but when people really are shunning you if it doesn't bother you great for you, but I am a "people person" by nature so feeling that people I thought liked me are shunning me is going to hurt.

It does hurt.  I had a coworker I was friendly with and we had plans to have lunch on a Sunday. The night before we confirmed.  So here I am at the restaurant and he doesn't show.  I texted him. No response. I stayed and had lunch and hours later he finally responds and says a friend came over the night before and she slept over and blah blah blah.  I put him in the deep freeze and didn't speak to him outside of work talk for six months.  I'm not judging anyone for wanting friends.  I would like genuine friends but finding people you have things in common with and enjoy their company isn't easy.

 

7 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

Type preferences are neither good nor bad but when people do hurtful things to each other Type shouldn't be used as a catch-all excuse to absolve them of their misdeeds.  Just my opinion.

Yes assholes don't get absolved just because they admit they are assholes.

[Dimity]

37 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

Yes assholes don't get absolved just because they admit they are assholes.

Someone I know who could certainly be described in this way posted a quote the other day: "It's easier to ask forgiveness than it is to get permission".  Which she thought was a very clever way of asserting that she's one tough cookie  but really just showed her for what she is.  Someone who thinks she can do whatever she wants and a simple "I'm sorry" will fix it.

[Absolom]

2 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Type preferences are neither good nor bad but when people do hurtful things to each other Type shouldn't be used as a catch-all excuse to absolve them of their misdeeds.

I don't confuse or excuse bad behavior with personality type.  They're definitely different.  I don't know but I'd find it very odd if someone I was a best friend with in junior high called me up out of the blue.  Personally, I wouldn't be rude, but I wouldn't be falling all over myself to rekindle a relationship that had died for some reason.  I made that mistake once myself of calling my best friend from the time period when my second child was an infant.  She wasn't rude, but it was obvious she had no wish to catchup or continue any kind of relationship.  Lesson learned.  

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, Absolom said:

…I wouldn't be falling all over myself to rekindle a relationship that had died for some reason.  I made that mistake once myself of calling my best friend from the time period when my second child was an infant.  She wasn't rude, but it was obvious she had no wish to catchup or continue any kind of relationship.  Lesson learned.  

Thanks for mentioning there being some reason a relationship died. 
It triggered a helpful stream of thoughts for me:
Thanks to my internet sleuthing skills (aka cyber stalking) I managed to contact 2 formerly close friends from high school. 
With one, we wound up having an hour and a half long telephone conversation, just like we had in high school. 
With the other, it was barely a brief online acknowledgment. 
Now that I've read the part of your post that I bolded: 

• “…but I wouldn't be falling all over myself to rekindle a relationship that had died for some reason.”

— and I've thought about it, both friendships dissolved because one of us moved away.
But the former friend who was icy had written me a last letter (1970s) saying how if I broke up with my boyfriend who I'd had sex with (instead of marrying him), she could not be my friend anymore. And that was the end of the friendship (which had not been in person for over a year at that point).
So, in the 2000s, I figured that was just a teenage thing, and she might like to catch up. But apparently not.
But now I think I never replied to her last letter in the 70s? Or maybe I did and said something like "then we can't be friends"? The breakup with the boyfriend (when he came back from Vietnam) brought about a psychological trauma which I self medicated with alcohol etc. and barely managed to not get expelled. But she didn't know that. And I think her parents were divorcing around then? So she had her own troubles.
I may have missed another opportunity to patch things up with her in the 2000s, explaining what I just typed here, but I'm not going to dwell on it. 
I'm just glad to have sorted it out in my own mind today.

I don't know if there's anything in this story that will help anyone here feel better about hurt feelings with friends, but maybe years from now you'll recall my tale when dealing with something similar and think:
Oh. Yeah. Stuff happens.

Edited June 5 by shapeshifter

[Absolom]

Thank you. I'm so glad there was some help in there.  This morning I've been thinking of friends I've kept and ones that I haven't and it really does come down to some issue or moving away from what connected us for most of the ones gone by.  I've kind of deceived myself that I was closer to some people than I was, but I accept that we aren't always equally invested and I'm not going chasing people who aren't invested to the same level I am.  I'm way past that now.  

Anyway what really concerns me this morning is while my daughter has been helping at school, I've been doing her kids' laundry.  I wonder if she's going to be mad or happy or possibly not care. 

[emma675]

45 minutes ago, Absolom said:

Anyway what really concerns me this morning is while my daughter has been helping at school, I've been doing her kids' laundry.  I wonder if she's going to be mad or happy or possibly not care. 

Hell, I would be thrilled. Any chance you're free later to do my laundry? 😉

[SoMuchTV]

3 hours ago, Absolom said:

Anyway what really concerns me this morning is while my daughter has been helping at school, I've been doing her kids' laundry.  I wonder if she's going to be mad or happy or possibly not care. 

This part confused me a little, but maybe I missed some context you posted earlier.  It sounds like you're staying/visiting at your daughter's place?  If doing her kids' laundry isn't something you do regularly, I think I'd at least run it past her before you do it ("Hey, I have time to run some kids' stuff through the wash - anything I should be aware of?")   Otherwise, hey, Jason's new red shirt needs to be washed separately, Olivia's stuff needs the special detergent, don't put such-and-such in the dryer...  But if you're already up to speed on all that, I hope she appreciates it!

[Absolom]

I've been staying with my daughters recovering from MAJOR surgery.  I've done kids' laundry since they were born.  I came and stayed for months after each birth at daughter's request so yeah I'm up on what and how to wash and if anything is questionable I just don't wash it. 

She's been telling me not to do things, but as I think I'm about ready to go home, I need to move toward being more normal.  She was fine that I'd done laundry so it all worked out.  

[oliviabenson]

Asked a friend you want to hang out Friday? No response since I asked on Monday. 
 

At least text back no. Jeez.

[SoMuchTV]

5 minutes ago, Absolom said:

I've been staying with my daughters recovering from MAJOR surgery.  I've done kids' laundry since they were born.  I came and stayed for months after each birth at daughter's request so yeah I'm up on what and how to wash and if anything is questionable I just don't wash it. 

She's been telling me not to do things, but as I think I'm about ready to go home, I need to move toward being more normal.  She was fine that I'd done laundry so it all worked out.  

Got it. I see how this could turn into:

daughter:  mom, stop doing stuff! I’m supposed to be helping you recover!

mom: I’m not useless!  I can do stuff!

so I’m glad it all worked out. 

[Absolom]

9 minutes ago, SoMuchTV said:

Got it. I see how this could turn into:

daughter:  mom, stop doing stuff! I’m supposed to be helping you recover!

mom: I’m not useless!  I can do stuff!

so I’m glad it all worked out. 

Exactly.  

[emma675]

28 minutes ago, Absolom said:

I've been staying with my daughters recovering from MAJOR surgery.  

I hope your recovery has been smooth and you're getting back to normal. 

[kristen111]

5 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

better about hurt feelings with friends, but maybe years from now you'll recall my tale when dealing with something similar and think:
Oh. Yeah. Stuff happens.

Edited 3 hours ago by shapeshifter

It’s funny you should mention all that.  My two girls laugh because I like “telephone friends”, as they call it.  After a few of my friends lost their husbands, I’ve called them and had great conversations on the phone.  When the conversations ended, they wanted to set things up for a lunch at a nice place.  I rather not go.  Some days, it’s just too much trouble to get ready, plus if I’m going to a restaurant, I’d rather go with my husband, as I feel more comfortable.  Things change as you get older.  Lots of times, we get take out, set up the living room, and eat on trays.  Eating out doesn’t phase me anymore.  I’d rather go see my little munchkins.  Altho, they are much bigger now and still interesting.

 

 

 

 

[PRgal]

In Cantonese, there’s a term that translates to “making telephone congee,” which means being on the phone a really long time.  Basically what teens did up until maybe 2012 when smartphones took over…..

[Absolom]

1 hour ago, emma675 said:

I hope your recovery has been smooth and you're getting back to normal. 

Thanks.  I'm getting there now.  I had a couple of complications along the way which is why I've been here so long.  

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, kristen111 said:

It’s funny you should mention all that.  My two girls laugh because I like “telephone friends”, as they call it.  After a few of my friends lost their husbands, I’ve called them and had great conversations on the phone.  When the conversations ended, they wanted to set things up for a lunch at a nice place.  I rather not go.  Some days, it’s just too much trouble to get ready, plus if I’m going to a restaurant, I’d rather go with my husband, as I feel more comfortable.  Things change as you get older.  Lots of times, we get take out, set up the living room, and eat on trays.  Eating out doesn’t phase me anymore.  I’d rather go see my little munchkins.  Altho, they are much bigger now and still interesting.

I am the same, but I'd been complaining to my daughter that none of her husband's local 100 extended family members ever includes me on their invites. (There are about 100 of them, but many are children or couples, so, not *that* many invites.)
Finally a couple of weeks ago I did go to an outdoor barbecue that she got me included on. I almost declined for the reasons you stated above, @kristen111, but then I remembered how I'd asked for this. Outdoors was better. And my son-in-law's father and stepmom were there, who are the ones I wanted to see. Unfortunately his father's mother wasn't there. She's just 12 years older than I am. I was looking forward to having someone to complain about old lady stuff with, LOL.

Anyway, none of us knows if those in our lives will always be there — whether due to moving out of town or an unexpected loss.
So it's probably good to make the effort when invited — which also ties in with the discussion about broken friendships. 
But it's fine to set limits on how long or how late you're willing to be there, and even request a venue closer to you. 

[annzeepark914]

I used to be a phone person (starting as a teen when I could chat forever). Now? I prefer emails (will text whenever it's needed).

[Absolom]

My kids finally converted me to text.

[Yeah No]

16 hours ago, Absolom said:

I don't confuse or excuse bad behavior with personality type.  They're definitely different.  I don't know but I'd find it very odd if someone I was a best friend with in junior high called me up out of the blue.  Personally, I wouldn't be rude, but I wouldn't be falling all over myself to rekindle a relationship that had died for some reason.  I made that mistake once myself of calling my best friend from the time period when my second child was an infant.  She wasn't rude, but it was obvious she had no wish to catchup or continue any kind of relationship.  Lesson learned.  

I don't think most people contact old friends to rekindle any relationship especially in the age of social media where you can just friend someone and say hello every now and then.  It's a big assumption that I contacted her to rekindle anything.  I just wanted to say hello and how are you.  How is that so hard to understand when it happens all the time on sites like that?  If she didn't want to be in touch with me she didn't have to accept my Linkedin request.  If she hadn't I wouldn't have made that move in the first place.

This person was very significant in my life, not just a classmate or anything and I had every reason to think the feeling went both ways so I don't think I was being out of line or intrusive contacting her especially when she accepted me on her contact list and shared her contact info. with me.  Sometimes people just fall out of touch but there are no hard feelings there so it's no big deal to just say hello.  And I had no reason to think she had any reason not to want to talk to me at all.  She is by far not the only person from my past I have reconnected with in this way and I never got rejected like that before by someone that was on my contact list especially if it's just to say hello.  They have contacted me that way too many times.  It's not a big deal and no drama either.  I might have expected it from someone I didn't know as well or knew I had some issues with, but not her.

I think the way my friend acted to me says more about her and her issues than it does about mine I don't think I should be criticized for contacting her.  I try to be empathetic and supportive of people when they are obviously suffering because someone significant has been shitty to them and choose my words carefully so they don't feel like I'm telling them they're to blame for it.  And I wouldn't call contacting her a "mistake" either.  She was the one that made the mistake in being rude to me when I didn't deserve it.  No lessons learned for me here except that people can be more messed up than we thought they were.  It's definitely not the only time I've found out that people I knew in childhood ended up very different as adults.  My husband found that out about his best friend from childhood too only in his case at least the man was happy to say hello after decades of being out of touch.   They are on each other's Facebook lists so they can keep up with each other without much contact.

 

Edited June 6 by Yeah No

[oliviabenson]

16 hours ago, oliviabenson said:

Asked a friend you want to hang out Friday? No response since I asked on Monday. 
 

At least text back no. Jeez.

I asked again yesterday and she said no. Well I tried.

[shapeshifter]

48 minutes ago, oliviabenson said:

I asked again yesterday and she said no. Well I tried.

At least she texted back, which is better than a ghost to me, I guess?
But, yes, you tried!

[oliviabenson]

59 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

At least she texted back, which is better than a ghost to me, I guess?
But, yes, you tried!

A response is definitely better than being ignored!

[Yeah No]

I'm sorry, but I just can't let this go.  Who else would think it was "very odd" if an old best friend of yours contacted you to say hello after losing touch for 20 years but only after you recently accepted their Linkedin request?  This was almost 20 years ago when I was in my 40s.  We were very close, not just acquaintances and never had any bad feelings between us that I know of anyway.  We just fell out of touch, no drama involved.  And why wouldn't her rude brush off of me be understandably hurtful?  I think it is, but the lack of support on that is baffling me.  I don't need to be told it's my fault for letting it bother me because it's supposedly an "odd" thing to do.  It is NOT, it is done every day on social media, including Linkedin.  And who wouldn't be bothered by something like that?  I'm not a stone-cold hearted person that doesn't let things like that bother me, nor do I want to be.  Perhaps I should be, perhaps then people would be kissing my ass rather than kicking it.

[GHScorpiosRule]

2 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

I'm sorry, but I just can't let this go.  Who else would think it was "very odd" if an old best friend of yours contacted you to say hello after losing touch for 20 years but only after you recently accepted their Linkedin request?  This was almost 20 years ago when I was in my 40s.  We were very close, not just acquaintances and never had any bad feelings between us that I know of anyway.  We just fell out of touch, no drama involved.  And why wouldn't her rude brush off of me be understandably hurtful?  I think it is, but the lack of support on that is baffling me.  I don't need to be told it's my fault for letting it bother me because it's supposedly an "odd" thing to do.  It is NOT, it is done every day on social media, including Linkedin.  And who wouldn't be bothered by something like that?  I'm not a stone-cold hearted person that doesn't let things like that bother me, nor do I want to be.  Perhaps I should be, perhaps then people would be kissing my ass rather than kicking it.

For what it's worth, I TOTALLY understand. I've been there, though the friend that cut me off, or rather, I guess ghosted is the now accepted phrase, did so with no rhyme or reason and never answered my voicemail or text, when I asked what happened.

We had reconnected on Face Book, yes, after 20 years or so; then met up again during our high school 25th reunion, where she was a source of strength when I was being bullied and terrorized by the supposed friend who was my landlord (aunt of my sister's high school bestie and someone I had also socialized with), and how to just leave. Then another one who helped during my chemo. But about a year after chemo was done, she just...cut me off. I KNOW I didn't do anything wrong, yet, my inner tween/early 20s self with self-esteem issues reared its head and I took on whatever it was. Then I just said, FUCK IT. I needed to concentrate on my health, as reconstructive surgery was bandied about and the expander was causing all kinds of issues, if you will recall.

[Yeah No]

4 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

For what it's worth, I TOTALLY understand. I've been there, though the friend that cut me off, or rather, I guess ghosted is the now accepted phrase, did so with no rhyme or reason and never answered my voicemail or text, when I asked what happened.

We had reconnected on Face Book, yes, after 20 years or so; then met up again during our high school 25th reunion, where she was a source of strength when I was being bullied and terrorized by the supposed friend who was my landlord (aunt of my sister's high school bestie and someone I had also socialized with), and how to just leave. Then another one who helped during my chemo. But about a year after chemo was done, she just...cut me off. I KNOW I didn't do anything wrong, yet, my inner tween/early 20s self with self-esteem issues reared its head and I took on whatever it was. Then I just said, FUCK IT. I needed to concentrate on my health, as reconstructive surgery was bandied about and the expander was causing all kinds of issues, if you will recall.

GH, thanks so much for your understanding.  Ugh, that really sucks, being cut off after chemo....No words for that, just hugs.  But it reminds me of that other friend of mine that supported me right after my father died of Covid then ghosted me.  I remember the last time I saw her in 2021.  A group of us finally got together since Covid started and sat outside at a pub in Yonkers, NY.  We shared hugs and kisses but I remember later thinking she had a weird look in her eyes that troubled me.  Little did I know then that she was planning on ghosting me after that.  My gut knew something was wrong though.

I think some of this stuff is bothering me more now because two of the only good friends I have left are not taking care of themselves and I'm worried about both their physical and mental health.  It's too involved to go into but both of them are in their 60s and I see the signs of their decline rapidly increasing over the past year or so.  And I feel helpless to help them too.  Neither of them is really opening up to me about it which only makes me feel even more helpless.  I have had just so much loss in the past few years since the pandemic that it traumatizes me to think of any more....

[Bastet]

10 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Who else would think it was "very odd" if an old best friend of yours contacted you to say hello after losing touch for 20 years but only after you recently accepted their Linkedin request?

Not very odd, but, yes, I'd find a phone call odd.  An email I'd be fine with, but a call out of the blue after all that time would feel intrusive to me.  But I wouldn't be rude if I got a call like that, I'd just keep the conversation short and make sure there wasn't any false "we should keep in touch" sentiment at the end of it. 

(I don't use Linkedin, but if I did, I'd consider that an opening to potentially message me through the site, on a networking level, not contact me socially, but if I got a social email I wouldn't find that odd, just a call after so many years.  Especially since, when you'd called her 20 years earlier, she didn't call back.)

In my senior year of college, the girl who'd been my closest friend in elementary school (other than my BFF, whom I'd known since before I started school and who was a year ahead of me; she's always been more a sister than a friend [good and bad]) turned up in one of my classes.  We recognized each other the first day, and after class we said hi, hope you're doing well, and probably had the "what's your major?" exchange and asked after each other's parents, but that was about it.  The friendship had ended because we went to different schools come junior high.  We hadn't been strictly school-only friends, we had sleepovers and such sometimes, but we knew we weren't going to see each other any more once we were in different schools and didn't try to force anything then.  So, ten years later, there was no desire to say anything more than that.

Edited June 7 by Bastet

[emma675]

29 minutes ago, Bastet said:

Not very odd, but, yes, I'd find a phone call odd.  An email I'd be fine with, but a call out of the blue after all that time would feel intrusive to me.  But I wouldn't be rude if I got a call like that, I'd just keep the conversation short and make sure there wasn't any false "we should keep in touch" sentiment at the end of it. 

I have to agree with you. An email or a text or even a direct message would a natural next step to me, but not necessarily a phone call. It might sound weird to some people, but my close friends and family and I rarely talk on the phone anymore. We chat every day via texts, a FB messenger group, and WhatsApp (for my friend who lives out of the country). I love it and I'm totally up to date on what's happening in their daily lives. A phone call that wasn't planned ahead of time would actually freak me out a little at this point, to be honest. It would make me think there was some kind of emergency. 

[Bastet]

7 hours ago, emma675 said:

A phone call that wasn't planned ahead of time would actually freak me out a little at this point, to be honest. It would make me think there was some kind of emergency.

This was 20ish years ago when there wasn't such a widespread mentality that unscheduled calls are reserved for emergencies (which isn't a philosophy I share, but I understand it's a common one).  The reason I'd think an email was more appropriate under those circumstances is the completely unexpected nature of it, nearly 20 years after we'd last spoken (with that conversation having itself been an anomaly that was not repeated) -- with an email, I can think about if I want to respond, and if, so, how (especially if what I want to do is politely say it's nice to hear from you in a way that doesn't imply I want to keep hearing from you) and do so on my timetable, whereas with a phone call I'm put on the spot in the moment.

Edited June 7 by Bastet

[isalicat]

To jump in here...I moved a long away from a beach town in the SF Bay area up to the extreme northern mountains of California and there was a family in my previous community that for some unknown reason (to me) insisted on staying in touch, even though I never spent any time with them socially when we lived in the same community (we went to the same church, where I was in a leadership position). They did this thing of actually coming on vacation to the tiny town in the mountains and contacting me by phone just before they arrived so that I could plan on "getting together" with them. The whole thing was mystifying to me (they were very nice people but I could not figure out why they seemed to be making such a point of pursuing what had been a mostly casual relationship) and awkward as if I answered the phone when they called (this is before email and texting by the way) I was really on the spot, as I refuse to lie about anything (it is a point of honor for me...no lying, no matter what) so I couldn't make up some prior commitment if I did not have one...I did meet them for lunch a couple of these multiple years they did this, and eventually although I was always pleasant and open to chatting during lunch, I think they got a clue and stopped contacting me. They didn't do anything wrong...I just had no interest in them, and frankly that may be the case for many of these relationships that end without "closure" and may leave one of the parties with hurt feelings. I sincerely hope they did not get offended but there are so many hours/days in my life and I'm pretty clear about not using them other than *I* intend.

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

…I've been there, though the friend that cut me off, or rather, I guess ghosted is the now accepted phrase, did so with no rhyme or reason and never answered my voicemail or text, when I asked what happened.

Okay. The following comment is intended to make all ghostees feel better. But I also understand if you are like the one of my daughters who always hated it when I did that because she just wanted me to agree that the person had done her a wrong. Nevertheless, I am going to offer up my alternate point of view on the outside chance that someone here might think it is just the ticket for inner peace — Hah! Not likely, but still: 
shapeshifter's Ghosting Axiom
The ghoster has too many obligations on their plate.
They have likely acquired a partner and/or children and/or dependent parent and/or high-maintenance pet and/or a second job and/or their home blew away in a storm etc. etc. 
So they've decided to phase out people they rarely see, and are definitely not interested in rekindling old friendships.

Would it be better if they came up with a boilerplate text response for random old friend salutations like:

• Sorry. I've got too much on my plate right now to even think about [whatever]. Hope you're doing well.

Sure? But any response is implying a dialog exists, and they are not interested in any dialogs outside of those necessary to keep the spinning plates above their head in the air.

Most importantly: I promise not to bring up this point of view yet again dressed in one of my seemingly endless life stories.

There are people who I do classify in my mind as unredeemable, but I do not want to meet them for coffee or tea or drinks, even to throw said drinks at them. It's not worth it to me.

[EtheltoTillie]

In the business context no one wants to make a call anymore because you will not get an answer. Major league phone tag is the rule. So frustrating.

Many of the people I deal with are overscheduled. Some of them have an assistant answer but unlike the old days where the assistant would take a message (remember those pink while you were out pads?), they insist on putting you through to voice mail, which requires listening to a message and then leaving a message that will likely not be heard. What really cheeses me is that they act like they are being helpful doing that.  I can put you through to her voice mail. As if I hadn’t thought of that. Ugh.

So I try to text or email to set up a call, because yes sometimes an actual phone call is needed. In the old days the secretary or assistant would help with that.  

Edited June 6 by EtheltoTillie

[shapeshifter]

5 minutes ago, EtheltoTillie said:

In the business context no one wants to make a call anymore because you will not get an answer. Major league phone tag is the rule. So frustrating.

Many of the people I deal with are overscheduled. Some of them have an assistant answer but unlike the old days where the assistant would take a message they insist on putting you through to voice mail, which requires listening to a message and then leaving a message that will likely not be heard. What really cheeses me is that they act like they are being helpful doing that.  I can put you through to her voice mail. As if I hadn’t thought of that. Ugh.
So I try to text or email to set up a call. In the old days the secretary or assistant would help with that.  Remember those pink while you were out pads?  

I'm going through this with the HVAC people right now.
Excellent point. 

[chitowngirl]

I just saw this meme on my Facebook feed, “Sometimes you have to give up on people. Not because you don’t care, but because they don’t.”

Edited June 6 by chitowngirl

[GHScorpiosRule]

56 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

They have likely acquired a partner and/or children and/or dependent parent and/or high-maintenance pet and/or a second job and/or their home blew away in a storm etc. etc. 

No. She was married with three kids when we reconnected and I got to spend time with them and her and she was now a stay at home mom. The month before she cut me off, we were talking, seeing each other, and then...nothing.  We grew up in the same building when we were kids; went to the same high school (elementary and middle school she went to a private Catholic school). It wasn't a one-way relationship.

So it's none of those things, and not what I quoted. It's been almost 8 years and I no longer dwell on it.