S01.E18: Judgement Day

[secnarf]

Quote

Ben's next leap takes him closer to home than he ever expected. The team faces the ultimate showdown with Leaper X as they battle for the future of the Quantum Leap project and their lives.

Original air date: April 3 2023

[AnimeMania]

(Season Finale)

Edited April 3, 2023 by AnimeMania

[Brown44]

So they made sure to make a satisfying ending juuuust incase they didn't get a season 2 renewal. 

[KaveDweller]

I guess they wrapped up the season long plot well enough. I'm not sure it all makes sense though, but it is time travel and they tried to hand wave that. I mean, if Ian jumping back in time triggered Ben to change things, why could Ian leap back to a future with everything still messed up?

And why was there nuclear winter in LA in the future? Did the government drop nukes to destroy the program? Or was their nuclear war, and the government blamed the project and that is why they tried to stop it. That scene was so fast it was hard to follow. 

I did like seeing Ben get to interact with more of the main cast. And I laughed when Ben was trying to convince 2018 Addison that he was a time traveler, and she was all, "hmmm, well I do work for a government time travel project." You'd think they all would have been smart like Jen and created a code for themselves.

[QuantumMechanic]

Sigh. That was an irritating episode. So much pointless technobabble and ad hoc-ery — even for this show! We couldn’t roll our eyes hard enough at the “the Ians have to enter the code at the same time” babble as just one example.

Ben still has better chemistry with anyone other than Addison than with Addison.

The end was a cop-out too, though I suppose it made a modicum of sense if when this ep was made it had to function as both a season finale and a series finale. (Did it? I don’t know the production timeline.)

 

Edited April 4, 2023 by QuantumMechanic

[possibilities]

Well, I liked it.

Time travel never makes sense, you have to just roll with it if you want to enjoy any time travel story, is my attitude.

[libgirl2]

4 hours ago, possibilities said:

Well, I liked it.

Time travel never makes sense, you have to just roll with it if you want to enjoy any time travel story, is my attitude.

I liked it too. I have spent over half my life watching Doctor Who. It didn't always make sense but you just went with it. 

[Nerfect Drifty]

6 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

And why was there nuclear winter in LA in the future? Did the government drop nukes to destroy the program? Or was their nuclear war, and the government blamed the project and that is why they tried to stop it. That scene was so fast it was hard to follow. 

The nuclear winter was unrelated to Project Quantum Leap.  It happened for reasons that are not explained.  However, the government blamed Project Quantum Leap for it, then sent Martinez back in time to kill first Addison, then destroy the accelerator.  

Because of this, Martinez was the antagonist, but not a villainous one.  He was working for the government and trying to stop a pretty huge wrong.  If the government of the future was right, then really, the people we know at PQL in 2022 were the bad guys, trying to preserve a post-apocalyptic status quo.

[libgirl2]

I have to say Ian looked gorgeous but the dark hair didn't work. 

[Nerfect Drifty]

11 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

I guess they wrapped up the season long plot well enough. I'm not sure it all makes sense though, but it is time travel and they tried to hand wave that. I mean, if Ian jumping back in time triggered Ben to change things, why could Ian leap back to a future with everything still messed up?

If you think about it, Ian and the QL gang could be considered the villains of this story.

1. Project Quantum Leap and their meddling in time causes this apocalyptic nuclear winter scenario.
2. In 2051, the government uses their time travel capabilities to send loyal and decorated Marine back in time to stop PQL from causing the disaster by killing their leaper and destroying their accelerator.
3. Ian gets word of this and leaps back in time to 2022 to warn Ben and lay out a plan for stopping the project.
4. Ben thwarts the Marine and government from 2051 from preventing the disastrous Quantum Leap from 2022.
5. Crapsack world of 2051 is preserved.

[iMonrey]

I don't want to criticize a network show for being ambitious, but this episode really bit off more than it could chew. I understand what they were trying to do but it was overly complicated and confusing, which has been the hallmark of this reboot from the jump. I was able to follow the thread, more or less, and at least they wrapped up the whole Martinez arc (I hope), but there was just way too much going on.

The chronic problem I've had all season is that I don't see any chemistry between Addison and Ben, whatsoever, and there is simply nothing compelling about their relationship. And this episode really revolved around whether or not their relationship would survive Ben's leap. I found myself honestly hoping they would kill Addison off and do some sort of soft reboot next season. I'm sure that's not what they were going for.

Quote

Time travel never makes sense, you have to just roll with it if you want to enjoy any time travel story, is my attitude.

Time travel stories should make sense. Sure, there are always paradoxes that arise, but I'm not going to excuse the blatant problems this show had with its internal logic when there were far too many things wrong with it overall. It hasn't earned a free pass.

[possibilities]

I didn't think it mad any less sense than other time travel stories. There's always a little bit of a loop effect, but the story tracked as much as any other. And we got more Ian! I also thought for the first time I could see the chemistry between Addison and Ben. 

The thing that made me laugh was Ian's future costume. Why did they have to dress in a cape and have their glasses perched on the very tip of their nose? Was Ian a fairy tale wizard from the stereotype manual of tropes? 

[libgirl2]

8 minutes ago, possibilities said:

I didn't think it mad any less sense than other time travel stories. There's always a little bit of a loop effect, but the story tracked as much as any other. And we got more Ian! I also thought for the first time I could see the chemistry between Addison and Ben. 

The thing that made me laugh was Ian's future costume. Why did they have to dress in a cape and have their glasses perched on the very tip of their nose? Was Ian a fairy tale wizard from the stereotype manual of tropes? 

I know!! Yay! 

That future outfit on them was kind of odd but I guess that is how you dress during a nuclear winter? 

[Nerfect Drifty]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I don't want to criticize a network show for being ambitious, but this episode really bit off more than it could chew. I understand what they were trying to do but it was overly complicated and confusing, which has been the hallmark of this reboot from the jump. I was able to follow the thread, more or less, and at least they wrapped up the whole Martinez arc (I hope), but there was just way too much going on.

The chronic problem I've had all season is that I don't see any chemistry between Addison and Ben, whatsoever, and there is simply nothing compelling about their relationship. And this episode really revolved around whether or not their relationship would survive Ben's leap. I found myself honestly hoping they would kill Addison off and do some sort of soft reboot next season. I'm sure that's not what they were going for.

I know.  They gave us these little drips of story arc for the first 17 episodes, then opened a garden hose on the 18th.

And I agree that Addison and Ben had no chemistry.  It was a whole lot of "tell, don't show".  Just keep having these people moan about how in love with each other they are and how much they miss each other, and hope the audience buys it.  Then at the end of the episode, they tried to say that Ben has some sort of wrong to set right, even after saving Addison's life and stopping the accelerator from imploding.  I guess he had to stop himself from asking Ziggy to run projections on his compatibility with Addison, so that their love would be more pure?

[ajsnaves]

Anyone else expecting Scott Bakula to walk out of the QL Accelerator at the end there? Which begs the question, do we know where Donna is? (I think that is Sam’s wife’s name, right?). I would love a mention at least.

A lot of this was crazy, but I could dig it. I love that Ben eventually just told Addison the truth. But I get why she didn’t believe him, and why that would be a bad thing.  And I liked that there were still Swiss Cheese holes in his memory.  It seems like that is something the project fixes eventually.  

Overall, I enjoyed this season.  I think it got better as the series progressed.  I hope TPTB are reading comments and take the notes back to the writers.  Especially less Addison as the Hologram and more from the others when the situation calls for it.  I don’t have any problem with the chemistry between Ben and Addison, but I rarely notice that sort of thing.  But I do think it works better when others are involved.  Even get Magic in there once in a while. I am sure his military and political experience could come in handy.  All i all I am looking forward to next season.  And am glad they are well into production.  Hopefully any WGA strike will not delay things too much.  (Hopefully the producers will play fair, and good deal will be reached without a strike.)

[Cobb Salad]

3 hours ago, possibilities said:

The thing that made me laugh was Ian's future costume. Why did they have to dress in a cape and have their glasses perched on the very tip of their nose? Was Ian a fairy tale wizard from the stereotype manual of tropes? 

The glasses on the top of the nose thing - Ian’s always wearing glasses, right?  So in the future their eyes don’t need glasses as much, lol?

I liked the “Turtle Time” message Jenn sent Ben to convince everyone he’s from the future.  One thing I found confusing was he didn’t seem to leap into anyone in the future - so how could Ian see him, especially when Ziggy is destroyed?

5 minutes ago, ajsnaves said:

Anyone else expecting Scott Bakula to walk out of the QL Accelerator at the end there?

He said months ago he’s not involved but I was wondering the same thing.  It would make for an interesting storyline, or one where Ben runs into him on a leap.  

I generally enjoyed the episode and am glad we got the resolution of the “Leaper X” storyline.  Knowing the show’s been renewed I (and I think everyone else here) knew Ben wasn’t going to walk out of the chamber at the end… now that he’s still leaping I guess the mystery is going to be figuring out why, besides the there are still people out there who need help.  

[Maverick]

I was bugged that both Addison and Magic were sitting in this episode.  They're holograms, they shouldn't be able to make use of the furniture to have a heart-to-heart with Ben. 

[secnarf]

Was anyone else low-key stressed about the temporal prime directive throughout this episode? I have never considered myself a huge Star Trek fan but apparently that has permeated my consciousness because it was all I could think about for most of the episode.

 

12 minutes ago, Cobb Salad said:

 

I liked the “Turtle Time” message Jenn sent Ben to convince everyone he’s from the future.  One thing I found confusing was he didn’t seem to leap into anyone in the future - so how could Ian see him, especially when Ziggy is destroyed?

Ian did say something about it being hard to find someone for Ben to leap into - but I didn’t catch if they actually clarified who they found. 

[Chit Chat]

13 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

I have to say Ian looked gorgeous but the dark hair didn't work. 

They overdid it with the makeup.   I liked the dark hair.  YMMV.

[DoctorAtomic]

Not quite 30 years and we have nuclear war? We better be a lot nicer to each other. 
So did future-Ian rig it to pull Ben to the future? Or was it part of the code that Ben ended up programming before the first leap? It wasn't clear. I don't think it surprised anyone here that the future Martinez group though Ben et al. were all screwing up though.

I like that Al was still around in 2018. 

I get they're going to panic about 'Ben' changing the future, but Sam leaped into himself at 16 already. Al didn't even exist at one point. I enjoyed future-present Addison being incredulous. 

Everyone gets to be a hologram today!

I'm kind of disappointed the 'cheat code' was basically just a reset button. I did like the idea of Ben and Martinez leaping around. I'm kind of still on that they do have some control on leaping. I would have liked that the future was somewhat altered. Eureka did it. 

21 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

You'd think they all would have been smart like Jen and created a code for themselves.

Do you all *not* have codes as a contingency? I have 3. 

I thought Sam was going to leap in when Ben was facing the gun in the western town. That would have been perfect. 

It's a cool call to end the Martinez plot with this season. 

I couldn't tell you any of what my coworkers like, so I would have been in a lot of trouble too. But, future me would know to make sure everyone had a code. Name of the goldfish? Come on. 

I'll be back for season 2. I think the most important decision the show made was to that everyone can be a hologram. I do hope that keep a good balance with the leap and what's going on with HQ, and more on the leap was better, but if anyone can come in as the hologram, then you can still have some variety.

Edited April 5, 2023 by DoctorAtomic

[secnarf]

18 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I couldn't tell you any of what my coworkers like, so I would have been in a lot of trouble too. But, future me would know to make sure everyone had a code. Name of the goldfish? Come on. 

The problem is, if they didn't tell anyone (which is the point of the code), they could all have codes but Ben still wouldn't know them. He is lucky Jenn had one in 2018, and was able to tell him from 2022 (or is the show now in 2023?). They could make a group code, I suppose, like what they tell parents to do with their children in case a stranger picks them up from school.

Anyways I just spent far too long sitting here trying to come up with my own personal code. Not like I work for a government time travel operation.

I did cringe a bit that Ben knew none of the answers though. He remembers Ian, why couldn't he at least remember that one thing? It felt too contrived that he wouldn't remember anything. And to Addison, "you have a goldfish?!" seriously? Unless she really didn't have a goldfish, and it didn't seem like that was the case based on her response, that was both dumb of Ben and hard to believe he wouldn't remember when he remembers so much more about Addison now.

[DoctorAtomic]

I meant more if me from 2051 was trying to talk to me now. I would know the codes. 

Ian had said to Jenn in 2023 about holing up and playing the game in 2018 because of depression. That's why trivia night was such a big deal. It's legitimate to me that Ben might not know the video game 5 years into the future what with their super top secret job and his (Ben's) brand new relationship. I just watched the show, and I already forgot the name of the game. 

I mean, no one said, 'favorite food or drink'. If they go to trivia every week, Ben might know that. Or that Ian just broke up with Rachel. Ben might know that. It seems more contrived that Martinez knew all the answers. 

Janis didn't really amount to much this season either.

Edited April 5, 2023 by DoctorAtomic

[lavenderblue]

One of my favorite shows is 12 Monkeys which had a very causality and loop-based approach to time travel, so as Addison and FutureBen's date unfolded I was like "maybe the date is actually going to go the way the date always went because Addison always went out with FutureBen" except, clearly not. But given how low stakes the Addison/Ben relationship is for me, it would've been an interesting twist on what we know of this story's approach to time so far if something had suddenly been triggered in Hologram Addison's memory there.

I appreciate the decision to presumably wrap the Martinez story, and in a way that was fairly logical, although I think the nuclear winter conclusion could've been set up a little better over the course of the season. Have a storyline where while Ben helps someone, there's a hint that he also created some negative outcome elsewhere. We can assume that's happened, and the government apparently decided that as well, but as far as the show's concerned they've gone with "Everything QL does is HELP people but now nuclear war and the government wants to destroy us, so unfair." Sure they're a scapegoat, but it would've upped the stakes to show the team realizing before now that there's been a cost to the project for some people's lives (and not just Ben and Sam's).

[KaveDweller]

12 hours ago, Nerfect Drifty said:

If you think about it, Ian and the QL gang could be considered the villains of this story.

1. Project Quantum Leap and their meddling in time causes this apocalyptic nuclear winter scenario.
2. In 2051, the government uses their time travel capabilities to send loyal and decorated Marine back in time to stop PQL from causing the disaster by killing their leaper and destroying their accelerator.
3. Ian gets word of this and leaps back in time to 2022 to warn Ben and lay out a plan for stopping the project.
4. Ben thwarts the Marine and government from 2051 from preventing the disastrous Quantum Leap from 2022.
5. Crapsack world of 2051 is preserved.

They are only the villains if something the Quantum Leap team did/changed actually caused the nuclear winter scenario. Ian seemed to imply that wasn't necessarily the case, but that the government just wanted to point the finger at someone. We don't really have any way of knowing what they actually did or if something terrible wouldn't have happened anyway.

And I mean, if they really just wanted to stop Project Quantum Leap, why not leap back to the nineties and kill Sam before he ever leapt. If he didn't leap into Magic, Magic wouldn't have pushed to restart the project and no one would have been leaping in 2022.

[Maverick]

 Or if their plan was to blow up the accelerator then jump to a point where the project was shut down. Minimal security, no chasing a leaper.  

 Also illogical:  two Ians having to enter the code "at the same time".  Which seems dumb to begin with but especially when they're 5 years apart.  But the most idiotic thing is GanIanoff yelling at Ben "it takes two".  He managed to write out a massive amount of code for Ben to memorize in a few seconds but he couldn't write out "requires to people to enter at the same time".  Or maybe how to actually use the code since Ben can memorize so quickly. 

[Trini]

I thought it was a good finale; glad they wrapped up the Martinez plot.  I did not like that they introduced the possibility of erasing Ben & Addison's relationship from existence, and then they didn't do it!

4 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Do you all *not* have codes as a contingency? I have 3. 

I wouldn't call it a 'code', but I do have a mental list of specific questions and answers that only I should know.

[Nerfect Drifty]

In that last shot, where they are expectantly watching the accelerator for Ben to come back, was anyone else hoping to see Sam pop out?  I know Scott Bakula said he'd have no involvement with the new series, but I have endless optimism that him saying this was just a misdirect.

11 hours ago, Maverick said:

Also illogical:  two Ians having to enter the code "at the same time".  Which seems dumb to begin with but especially when they're 5 years apart.  But the most idiotic thing is GanIanoff yelling at Ben "it takes two".  He managed to write out a massive amount of code for Ben to memorize in a few seconds but he couldn't write out "requires to people to enter at the same time".  Or maybe how to actually use the code since Ben can memorize so quickly. 

I know.  I hate that talking in riddles bullshit that TV dramas like to use, just to create tension as characters try to figure out the riddle.

[DoctorAtomic]

8 hours ago, Trini said:

I wouldn't call it a 'code', but I do have a mental list of specific questions and answers that only I should know.

We'll survive any temporal shenanigans then. 

5 minutes ago, Nerfect Drifty said:

In that last shot, where they are expectantly watching the accelerator for Ben to come back, was anyone else hoping to see Sam pop out?  I know Scott Bakula said he'd have no involvement with the new series, but I have endless optimism that him saying this was just a misdirect.

Absolutely. Who says it won't? 

If Ben does return, I wonder if S2 will feature Addison leaping and Ben not. I kind of hope Ben doesn't return because Sam didn't. 

I also would like if they don't ignore that there's a nuclear war coming and that factors into the leaps. 

[GiandujaPie]

I liked it. I felt it made just enough sense if you didn't overthink it and it felt like the writers actually had a plan from the beginning of how they were going to end up at the end of the season. (Although LOL at the description of the plot being the plot from Terminator.) it didn't seem like they were making stuff up as they went along, like some other time travel sci=-fi shows (I'm looking at you, La Brea!). I wonder if the scenes of Ben and Martinez going back to previous leaps and fighting were filmed at the same time that the episode was filmed (which would mean the writers always knew what they were going to do) or if they had to go back and re-create those sets. I'm thinking it had to be the former as it would be hard to re-create the sets. However, if the writers had wanted to keep the story a secret, even from the actors, it would be the latter. It was brutal watching Ben get beat by Martinez, but it wouldn't have made sense for Ben to be a good fighter as he was a scientist. 

I too was kinda hoping that there would be a surprise during the episode of Sam showing up and maybe that's what will happen next season as they purposely didn't show what happened at the end. I'm looking forward to next season!

[Netfoot]

Ok, I've watched the entire season now, and I've been giving it some thought.

I don't like this show.

There is not one single character in the show that I like. Their actions are stupid and their acting does not impress. I am not going to blame the actors necessarily because an actor can only do as directed by the, uh, Director. But most of them are one-note cliches. The overarching plot is banal and the individual weekly scenarios are frequently ridiculous and often paying lip-service to something unconnected to the episode or the show as a whole as well. 

I am old enough to remember Scott Bakula, Dean Stockwell et al. and this obviously affects my reception of the 2022 re-thinking  & re-imagining. How unfortunate that there doesn't appear to have been too much in the way of thinking or imagining. 

I just checked and I am disappointed to discover that this has been renewed for another season. 

[Chit Chat]

1 hour ago, Netfoot said:

But most of them are one-note cliches.

Overall, I like the show, but it does tend to get very sappy.  I could do without the heavy emotional moments too.   

[Starchild]

By the way, who shot Martinez, I don't remember her.

[Starchild]

Also, Martinez was not a bad guy. He was a good soldier given a tough assignment to save the world from nuclear war. Poor guy.

[crashdown]

On 4/4/2023 at 5:20 PM, secnarf said:

Was anyone else low-key stressed about the temporal prime directive throughout this episode? I have never considered myself a huge Star Trek fan but apparently that has permeated my consciousness because it was all I could think about for most of the episode.

The Department of Temporal Investigations thanks you for your concern!

 

[peachmangosteen]

2 hours ago, Starchild said:

By the way, who shot Martinez, I don't remember her.

She was from the western episode but I don't really remember what she did in it lol.

[DoctorAtomic]

I thought she owned the hotel.

[PurpleTentacle]

I agree that making sense of time travel stories is folly. The only time travel stories that can and have to make sense are stabel time loops (which is also why those are the best time travel stories), but Quantum Leap isn't one of those.

What I have a problem with is this episodes misuse of Dark Souls. I know in popular media and even games media it's known as "a super hard game", but it's really not. It's unforgiving and obtuse, but not really hard.

Unforgiving means you have to learn the bosses, so you can dodge their attacks. That can take a bit of time. But once you have that, you should be able to beat them. It's not hard in the sense that it takes forever to get skilled enough to beat them, like it would with Kaizo Mario or something like that.

Obtuse, because the game doesn't explain anything. Not how to stat your character effectively, not where to go, not anything. You really need to read through Wikis if you want to get the most out of the game. That is why I eventually quit, like two thirds through the game. I probably could have beaten it even with my randomly, badly skilled character, but half of the fun for me in games is to build a well skilled character and Dark Souls was giving me no hints what that would be. But I don't think that would have been a problem for Ian. They strike me as the type of person who'd gleefully read through Wikis.

Then there is the thing, that yes, you can summon other players (but it's not like you are summoning your friends usually, but random players from around the world), or NPCs for that matter, to help you with bosses, but you really don't have to. I think I summoned NPCs now and then, never real players and often I just did the bosses alone.

But mainly, there are no cheat codes in Dark Souls. What would be the point? The fun in Dark Souls is the challange. If you cheat your way past stuff you might as well not play.

Otherwise, nice enough episode. I just question the decision to linger on Addison's face at the end. The actress is not good enough to pull that off...

[Chit Chat]

3 minutes ago, PurpleTentacle said:

What I have a problem with is this episodes misuse of Dark Souls. I know in popular media and even games media it's known as "a super hard game", but it's really not. It's unforgiving and obtuse, but not really hard.

I guess I'm lucky in that I can just hand wave these types of things.  I don't play any type of gaming system.  Never have and never will.  When a storyline like this comes up, I just roll with it!  Ignorance is bliss when you don't have to think about stuff like this and can just enjoy the show for what it is.  :) 

[PurpleTentacle]

On 4/4/2023 at 4:56 PM, Nerfect Drifty said:

If you think about it, Ian and the QL gang could be considered the villains of this story.

1. Project Quantum Leap and their meddling in time causes this apocalyptic nuclear winter scenario.
2. In 2051, the government uses their time travel capabilities to send loyal and decorated Marine back in time to stop PQL from causing the disaster by killing their leaper and destroying their accelerator.
3. Ian gets word of this and leaps back in time to 2022 to warn Ben and lay out a plan for stopping the project.
4. Ben thwarts the Marine and government from 2051 from preventing the disastrous Quantum Leap from 2022.
5. Crapsack world of 2051 is preserved.

If you believe that narrative, but it's more likely that the nuclear winter happens anyway and Quantum Leap might be the only option to fix it.

You know how politicians are. Always blaming everything and everyone but themselves.

On 4/4/2023 at 11:02 PM, Cobb Salad said:

The glasses on the top of the nose thing - Ian’s always wearing glasses, right?  So in the future their eyes don’t need glasses as much, lol?

Well you get more farsighted with age, which can compensate for nearsightedness. So that's actually a possibility.

Also sometimes you need to take off your glasses to read something, which can also become more prevalent with age.

So there are actual possible reasons for this.

8 hours ago, Netfoot said:

There is not one single character in the show that I like. Their actions are stupid and their acting does not impress. I am not going to blame the actors necessarily because an actor can only do as directed by the, uh, Director. But most of them are one-note cliches. The overarching plot is banal and the individual weekly scenarios are frequently ridiculous and often paying lip-service to something unconnected to the episode or the show as a whole as well. 

I am old enough to remember Scott Bakula, Dean Stockwell et al. and this obviously affects my reception of the 2022 re-thinking  & re-imagining. How unfortunate that there doesn't appear to have been too much in the way of thinking or imagining. 

I really don't think this is any worse than the Bakula version. TV standards just have risen a lot since then.

I agree that the acting isn't stellar overall, but I think Ben's actor could do more with a better script. I know Ian's actor could do more, because they were amazing as Desire in the Sandman, but even here they aren't exactly bad.

1 hour ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I thought she owned the hotel.

*brothel. But close enough, I guess. :D

31 minutes ago, ChitChat said:

I guess I'm lucky in that I can just hand wave these types of things.  I don't play any type of gaming system.  Never have and never will.  When a storyline like this comes up, I just roll with it!  Ignorance is bliss when you don't have to think about stuff like this and can just enjoy the show for what it is.  :) 

That was more of a "fun nitpick" than a real complaint. If you want to see a real complaint, you should see what I had to say about the last episode of the good doctor.

Also yeah, it's always more fun to watch stuff about things you know nothing about. Even in non-fiction. I would not recommend watching a news report or documentary on something you know a lot about. You'll end up thinking "how could they have possibly gotten everything wrong?!". Or maybe I would recommend it once in a while. Puts other news and documentaries in perspective.

[DoctorAtomic]

I wasn't buying Ian would use a cheat code over hacking the game and just rewriting it. 

[Angeleyes]

One loose end that was not addressed (unless I missed it?) is the narrative that Ziggy was made to be a mole. When was that done and by who and for what purpose? Did that play into the issues that happened in the future? Maybe we’ll get more about that next season, but I sort of thought it would come up in the finale. You would think that would have affected what they were able to do for Ben in 2018. 

[DoctorAtomic]

I thought that Ziggy being the 'mole' only meant that since Ziggy is essentially constant in time, the data collected from Ben's leaps is still there in the future, so it's easy to track him. It seemed implied to me that was why Martinez  knew Ben leaped into himself in 2018. 

 

[iMonrey]

Quote

I really don't think this is any worse than the Bakula version. TV standards just have risen a lot since then.

Hard disagree. Production values might be better but the original had a much simpler premise and more straightforward storytelling. Like all reboots this tried too hard to be darker and grittier.

Worse, the leads have zero chemistry, either as a couple or as individuals. And the leap storylines seemed like pointless afterthoughts in service of the season-long mystery over why Ben leaped.

I did sort of warm up to it towards the end and there were a few decent episodes but it's an inferior version of the original for many reasons IMO.

[Nerfect Drifty]

15 hours ago, Angeleyes said:

One loose end that was not addressed (unless I missed it?) is the narrative that Ziggy was made to be a mole. When was that done and by who and for what purpose? Did that play into the issues that happened in the future? Maybe we’ll get more about that next season, but I sort of thought it would come up in the finale. You would think that would have affected what they were able to do for Ben in 2018. 

Ziggy was only figuratively the mole.  The gang in 2022/2023 were giving information to Ziggy, and the antagonists in the 2040s were using it against them.  It was not a conscious act of subterfuge by anybody.

It's like this... if you were a regular Texan in November 1963, you would have no knowledge of what was going to happen on on the 22nd of that month.  If you time traveled from now and went back there, you would have knowledge from what is currently a matter of history. If you showed up on the 6th floor of the Texas Schoolbook Depository, Oswald would wonder what you were doing there and who told you his plan.  Well, nobody did... you just found out after it became public information and part of the historical record.

[Nerfect Drifty]

23 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Hard disagree. Production values might be better but the original had a much simpler premise and more straightforward storytelling. Like all reboots this tried too hard to be darker and grittier.

Worse, the leads have zero chemistry, either as a couple or as individuals. And the leap storylines seemed like pointless afterthoughts in service of the season-long mystery over why Ben leaped.

I did sort of warm up to it towards the end and there were a few decent episodes but it's an inferior version of the original for many reasons IMO.

Original series they didn't even have to do character development.  There were, for all intents and purposes, 2 characters.  They could develop the relationship between Al and Sam and they did a good job at it. You could sense that brotherly love through the little snatches of back story they slipped in now and then.  Gooshie, Ziggy, and Tina were sort of characters from present day, but they were more frequently referenced than actually seen.  Those three were mostly comic relief now that I think about it.  Gooshie as the lead technician with terrible breath, Ziggy as the nearly omniscient computer with the big ego, and Tina as a basis for Al's anecdotes.

Every character in this show felt like the characters in a slasher movie, except that none of them were killed.  It's like, everyone was there just to be there, and some half hearted attempts were made to give them stock personalities.  It feels like they took old school Quantum Leap and merged it with a boring workplace drama.

After the original show went off the air, some fanfiction site called "Quantum Leap: The Virtual Seasons" went up.  It does more story arc stuff with modern day than the original show did.  It was written by fans, who are just amateurs, and the character development is STILL more interesting than this show.

Lastly, I'm so pissed off that this show had the chance to put right a big wrong from the original series: Sam Beckett never getting home.  And yet they don't bother.  I know it's just a TV show, but the thought of a good man like Sam Beckett all alone, permanently leaping through time, or trapped there, just upsets me.  You know, even if they did like one episode, where it's discovered that Sam stopped leaping and settled down somewhere in time, like what Captain America did, I would be happy.  I just need closure damnit.

[Starchild]

1 hour ago, Nerfect Drifty said:

Lastly, I'm so pissed off that this show had the chance to put right a big wrong from the original series: Sam Beckett never getting home.  And yet they don't bother.  I know it's just a TV show, but the thought of a good man like Sam Beckett all alone, permanently leaping through time, or trapped there, just upsets me.  You know, even if they did like one episode, where it's discovered that Sam stopped leaping and settled down somewhere in time, like what Captain America did, I would be happy.  I just need closure damnit.

But Sam didn't want to come home, right? He wanted to keep leaping and helping people? If so, then he's happy, closure unlocked.

On another topic, for a while now, many of us have wished Ian were the hologram.

I now wish Ian were the leaper.

[Nerfect Drifty]

It seemed like he DID want to come home, but knew that he couldn't until he saved Al's marriage.  He did that, and apparently leaped somewhere else as himself.

But even if he wanted to continue helping people, he can't do it by leaping as himself through time, with no knowledge of the future provided by a hologram.

18 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

If you believe that narrative, but it's more likely that the nuclear winter happens anyway and Quantum Leap might be the only option to fix it.

You know how politicians are. Always blaming everything and everyone but themselves.

That's kind of what I was saying.  If you assume that leaping through time caused the nuclear winter, then Martinez is the good guy trying to fix history, and the gang at PQL are the villains trying to thwart him.  I thought it was an interesting perspective to think of.

[DoctorAtomic]

Just now, Nerfect Drifty said:

It seemed like he DID want to come home, but knew that he couldn't until he saved Al's marriage.  He did that, and apparently leaped somewhere else as himself.

But even if he wanted to continue helping people, he can't do it by leaping as himself through time, with no knowledge of the future provided by a hologram.

That's not what I got from the OG finale. For one, the other guy there was leaping as himself and presumably didn't have a Ziggy to help him, so it's not like it's impossible to figure out what's going on, and it's not like both Ben and Sam figured it out before Addison or Al told him. 

The bartender said, 'you always had the power', and Sam went to Beth. Whether Sam thought that meant he had the power to take him where he needed to go or whether he could leap wherever he wanted isn't clear.  

I don't think Sam didn't really want to come home, but Magic, Al, and Janis don't know that. They naturally want to see him again. They also don't know that Sam is leaping as himself. There's no way to track him. It's not like he's being completely disregarded. Magic mentioned wanting to find him a few times, and then they got pulled into all this Martinez nonsense. 

They revived QL to actually find him, and then this all started. I'm not sure, other than leaping around and looking for him what they can do unless Sam chooses to 

[possibilities]

In one of the interviews, the showrunner says Bakula has a standing invitation to return, and I personally think that if Bakula doesn't do so, any "find Sam" plot is going to be useless. They could pay lip service to finding him but never show him on screen? When Sarah Michelle Geller didn't want to appear in a Buffy the Vampire Slayer sequel, they cast someone else in a blonde wig and never showed her face and it was worse than unsatisfying. 

I think it would be fun if there was a different team member leaping every season, and they bring home whoever it was at the end of each season or arc. I don't like the idea of people being lost forever, not knowing their mission, or knowing it but being trapped. I don't understand how the leaps are programmed or chosen, when everyone on the team seems to think they are simultaneously random/mysterious and also targeted/purposeful.

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, DoctorAtomic said:

That's not what I got from the OG finale. For one, the other guy there was leaping as himself and presumably didn't have a Ziggy to help him, so it's not like it's impossible to figure out what's going on, and it's not like both Ben and Sam figured it out before Addison or Al told him. 

The bartender said, 'you always had the power', and Sam went to Beth. Whether Sam thought that meant he had the power to take him where he needed to go or whether he could leap wherever he wanted isn't clear.

I agree.  It's why I like the finale more than most people.  The show's premise was about finding his way home/what he thought he wanted the most, but the finale revealed he had more power than he thought to control his destiny.  Through the journey to that discovery, he also realized a sense of purpose in changing lives. I don't think he ever consciously made the decision not to return home in the 30+ years since he initially leaped but there was just always one more person he could help or one more mission.

If Bakula doesn't return in the second season, Ben coming to that realization might be a good place to end a second season so the leaps are more voluntary than Sam's were. They could still want to find Sam but perhaps they'll realize that Sam probably had that epiphany too.

 

Edited April 6, 2023 by Irlandesa