S02.E08: No Funerals

[AnimeMania]

Forced into an impossible situation during her fight with Kirigan, Alina makes a fateful decision that alters her relationship with magic — and Mal.

Premiere Date: March 16, 2023       Netflix

[dubbel zout]

Good-bye, sexy Ben Barnes. I'll miss you and your seductive evilness. I do think Kirigan as a villain has run his course, though.

[Hanahope]

did Alina cut with shadow in the last scenes? is that her "cost" for resurrecting Mal. did she even realize what she was doing, that she was really resurrecting him? and she looked pleased about the cut too.  if it was shadow, that doesn't look good.  

and was that grisha at the coronation speaking the northern language?  i thought they killed their grisha.

I presume the Shu also have grisha (given their own Saint), so where are they/what are they doing?  Looks like Revka could use an ally, since they will likely have some "rejoining" pains with their two halfs, and a lot of people probably still don't like grisha, even with alina taking away the fold.

honestly, Nina and Matthias' story is so weak, its ridiculous.  Can they just forget about it next year?  or do we have to still deal with Pekka?

David's body was nowhere to be found.  could the shadows fully consume someone, or would there still be a body?  if there's no body, its not 100% that he died, though if he's still around it might not be in the same condition.

and of course Mal has to "do something" now that he is no longer a tracker (though one would think he still has the skills of a tracker, just not the inherent 'special something'), he can't just stay with alina (or does he know something about what happened to her by her resurrecting him?).  

Edited March 20, 2023 by Hanahope

[peridot]

This episode was jumping all over the place, I had a hard time trying to focus on a scene.  Hours after the resurrection, Mal decided to break up with Alina?  If he had such doubts about their relationship, I don't understand why they decided to consummate it.  It seemed like everyone decided to jump to a new relationship very quickly after their main love interests went away.  The back and forth between Kaz and Inej was annoying too. 

My thoughts exactly to the post above - I thought the Fjerdas despised Grisha, why would they have one working for them?

One thing that was interesting was the potential transformation of Nikolai into a shadow monster.  Is that why the priest gave him such dire warnings, he knew about the wound?

[absnow54]

I did a rewatch of season 1 right before season 2 was released, and just made it through the season 2 episodes. There was a very obvious drop in quality between the two seasons. The season 1 story is still silly, but it's a fairly tight story. Everything seemed to weave together so that the final episode felt like a legitimate payoff, and the pacing within each episode was well done.

Season 2 felt like they were told they were very likely to be canceled, so they just threw all of the spaghetti at the wall, and let it land where it land. Was there fan service? Yes. Was there epic meme worthy material? The best. I'm still laughing at the 10 minute scene of random extras seeing who could spit their blood capsule the furthest, in front of a stain glass window that looked like a preschool art project. But I would never seriously recommend this season to a friend with the promise that it's good.

I don't care if this show gets a season 3, but I really hope they get the green light on the Six of Crows adaptation, because the casting for the Crows is just so fantastic, and they're obviously the only storyline that the showrunners care about.

[MissLucas]

On 3/23/2023 at 3:56 AM, peridot said:

I thought the Fjerdas despised Grisha, why would they have one working for them?

Despising them does not mean they won't weaponize them - quite the contrary. The Grisha assassin was hooked on jurda parem. Unfortunately the show decided to give the necessary background info in Kaz's rushed voice over but that was not enough. Instead of showing us an endless montage of blood spluttering they should have given a bit more time to the necessary exposition.

The show has been fighting a valiant effort against structural problems all season and in this episode it finally succumbed to the strain. I'll take the rest to the book vs show discussion.

[Puffaroo]

22 hours ago, absnow54 said:

"I did a rewatch of season 1 right before season 2 was released, and just made it through the season 2 episodes. There was a very obvious drop in quality between the two seasons...

I don't care if this show gets a season 3, but I really hope they get the green light on the Six of Crows adaptation, because the casting for the Crows is just so fantastic, and they're obviously the only storyline that the showrunners care about."

WAY too much deus ex machina -- where did that third Hummingbird come from, and how convenient that The Crows appeared just as all seemed lost. Totally agree that Nina and Matthias was too much of the same stuff over and over.

Six of Crows, however, I'd watch in a heartbeat. I'm half in love with Inej.

 

Edited March 25, 2023 by Puffaroo

[Shorty186]

I feel like if there was a "Six of Crows" spinoff, they would cast younger versions of the characters. Maybe to show has Kaz, Inej and Jesper first met. 

[Ohiopirate02]

1 hour ago, Shorty186 said:

I feel like if there was a "Six of Crows" spinoff, they would cast younger versions of the characters. Maybe to show has Kaz, Inej and Jesper first met. 

The Six of Crows spinoff would be the Crows investigating the Jurda Parem in Fjerda.  

[Brn2bwild]

Was there a reason a bee landed on Zoya's lapel as they were watching Kirigin's body?  Just a production goof, or significant for next season (if there is one)?

[Wicked]

My guess is the bee is significant for next season

[MissLucas]

The bee is significant - a production goof would not get a close-up.

[Souris]

On 3/25/2023 at 7:49 PM, Ohiopirate02 said:

The Six of Crows spinoff would be the Crows investigating the Jurda Parem in Fjerda.  

Is that speculation or based on something the producers or actors have said?

Would there be a reason they wouldn’t or couldn’t do that story simultaneously with what’s going on in Ravka like they have been doing? Heaven knows they covered a ton of different stories this season!

And, yes, the bee is significant and a clue to a storyline from the books.

[Ohiopirate02]

9 hours ago, Souris said:

Is that speculation or based on something the producers or actors have said?

Would there be a reason they wouldn’t or couldn’t do that story simultaneously with what’s going on in Ravka like they have been doing? Heaven knows they covered a ton of different stories this season!

And, yes, the bee is significant and a clue to a storyline from the books.

It's speculation based on the source material.  This episode ended with Kaz informing his crew about their next job which is the plot from Six of Crows. Also, any future Ravka plots have to be placed on the back burner while the events of the next 2 books unfurl.  It makes sense that the showrunners want to split off the Crows dulogy instead of creating new plots for Alina and Mal.  There is no pressing need to keep them on screen.  

[absnow54]

2 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

It's speculation based on the source material.  This episode ended with Kaz informing his crew about their next job which is the plot from Six of Crows. Also, any future Ravka plots have to be placed on the back burner while the events of the next 2 books unfurl.  It makes sense that the showrunners want to split off the Crows dulogy instead of creating new plots for Alina and Mal.  There is no pressing need to keep them on screen.  

I don't mind them doing Six of Crow as a standalone, but I think they could certainly adapt the Ravka characters into the Six of Crow storyline similar to how they weaved the Crows into the first season. It would just be odd to suddenly make Alina a supporting character, though. The Ravka story has gone so off the rails, that I don't think they could just pick back up with the King of Scars duology, without some finesse in between. 

[Ohiopirate02]

8 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

I don't mind them doing Six of Crow as a standalone, but I think they could certainly adapt the Ravka characters into the Six of Crow storyline similar to how they weaved the Crows into the first season. It would just be odd to suddenly make Alina a supporting character, though. The Ravka story has gone so off the rails, that I don't think they could just pick back up with the King of Scars duology, without some finesse in between. 

I can see some cuts to Nikolai rebuilding Ravka in the next season or in the Crows spinoff.  There's also the fact that Inej became a pirate and will need to end up back in Ketterdam.  We can see her come back to Kaz and also see Mal reunite with Alina.  Then Mal and Alina can go ride off into the sunset together.  I don't see a problem with Alina being a supporting character because she is the blandest protagonist ever.  She's too passive and indecisive.  I find the rest of the cast (sans Mal) so much more dynamic.  

[MissLucas]

Alina's plot has already been hinted at: returning the magic blade, presumably she will also have to deal with her merzost usage. Unless Six of Crows is turned into a spin-off - which I doubt - TPTB are not going to sideline any main characters for a prolonged period of time.

[angora]

I'll give them this: I'm glad that Alina destroyed the Fold first and *then* dealt with Kirigan. That way we could actually see what was going on between them, and the others with the shadow monsters. I was steeling myself to spend a murky climax squinting at my screen.

Although, either way, it's not like the final battle went on that long. I guess they put most of the fighting into the last episode, but it was a little wild to have all the big stuff wrapped up with so much of the episode left. After a season so crammed full of plot, it was a surprise to get such a leisurely finale.

I can't quite figure out what the show was going for here. They covered so much of the book series in a single season, which suggests they might've been anticipating cancellation (but looking for a possible Six of Crows spinoff.) And yet, at the end, they were very clearly dangling plot stuff that had to be resolved. Even apart from the jurda parem, which again, could be dealt with in a Crows spinoff, we've got Alina summoning shadows, and hardly any of the romantic plots have reached a good resolution. So they seemed to be writing with cancellation in mind, but they ended it banking on renewal, or at least wanting to force Netflix's hand? Messy.

Ugh with the Alina/Mal angst, although Mal has admittedly been through it lately. I can believe that finding out you're a mythical amplifier, realizing that that might have been unconsciously guiding your choices your entire life, having that part of you drained away, and then being *brought back from the dead* could make you want to pause and reassess things. But the back-and-forth gets tiring. I did smile at Mal becoming the new Dread Pirate Roberts/Sturmhond.

I get that it's a famous line, and it sounds cool out of context, but, "I will have you without your armor, Kaz Brekker, or I will not have you at all," is pretty shitty when the "armor" she's referring to is how he copes with his extreme aversion to touch rooted in deep childhood trauma. After seeing what Kaz went through in Shu Han and how Inej looked out for him, you'd have thought she would be more sensitive to that. Granted, I don't think she has all the pieces yet for *why* Kaz can't deal with touch, but she obviously knows how much it distresses him. She could've made it clear that she wasn't expecting any skin-to-skin contact immediately, or that Kaz being without "armor" also included just telling her why he needed it.

Did they seriously kill David offscreen??? No body, so there's a tiny whisper of hope left, but if they really just did that, *ugh*. Why???

Nina can influence people's moods/make them more suggestible with her Heartrender powers, right? That's partly why Matthias was so quick to believe she'd tricked him at the end of last season. So why didn't she use them when she was showing the pardon to the guard at Hellgate? I feel like she used her powers in different, more interesting ways last season, while in this one, she mostly just used the typical Heartrender fighting style and did some bonus healing on the side.

[PurpleTentacle]

On 3/20/2023 at 10:32 PM, Hanahope said:

did Alina cut with shadow in the last scenes?

That last scene seemed very much "We ran out of books and now have to make shit up ourselves! Oh my god!" I'm not sure if it's true, but that is how it felt like.

Crazy new powers with a dark twist? Check!

A drug anybody can just take, that makes every Grisha more powerfull than somebody with three legendary amplifiers, they spent years aquiring? Check!

Something that doesn't make any sense with previously established canon (a patriotic Grisha from a country that kills their Grishas)? Check!

On 3/20/2023 at 10:32 PM, Hanahope said:

honestly, Nina and Matthias' story is so weak, its ridiculous.  Can they just forget about it next year?  or do we have to still deal with Pekka?

Especially since we didn't see that much of Matthias and it seemed like they pruned his fur a little (boo).

On 3/24/2023 at 1:54 PM, absnow54 said:

Season 2 felt like they were told they were very likely to be canceled, so they just threw all of the spaghetti at the wall, and let it land where it land. Was there fan service? Yes. Was there epic meme worthy material? The best. I'm still laughing at the 10 minute scene of random extras seeing who could spit their blood capsule the furthest, in front of a stain glass window that looked like a preschool art project. But I would never seriously recommend this season to a friend with the promise that it's good.

Well they are on Netflix, so there is a 99% chance they will be cancelled.

On 3/25/2023 at 12:48 AM, MissLucas said:

Despising them does not mean they won't weaponize them - quite the contrary.

It kinda does mean that, when you kill all of them in your country. If there aren't any you can't weaponize them.

On 3/28/2023 at 4:36 PM, angora said:

I get that it's a famous line, and it sounds cool out of context, but, "I will have you without your armor, Kaz Brekker, or I will not have you at all," is pretty shitty when the "armor" she's referring to is how he copes with his extreme aversion to touch rooted in deep childhood trauma. After seeing what Kaz went through in Shu Han and how Inej looked out for him, you'd have thought she would be more sensitive to that. Granted, I don't think she has all the pieces yet for *why* Kaz can't deal with touch, but she obviously knows how much it distresses him. She could've made it clear that she wasn't expecting any skin-to-skin contact immediately, or that Kaz being without "armor" also included just telling her why he needed it.

Also he had just put the emotional part of his armour down for her, by admitting his feelings for her. Something he hadn't done for anybody since his brother died and how does she reward him for that? By verbally punching him in the face. What did she expect, that all his trauma would go away within a second?

A decent person would have recognised the big step and have seen that as enough for now. She could have still made it clear that eventually she would want physical contact and that they needed to work on that together but going "fix your massive trauma without any help from me, so you can be worthy of me!" is such a dick move, such entitlement and seems really out of character for her. I don't know how this line is delivered in the books and in what context, I just hope it's better than in the show, because wow that was bad.

Edited March 31, 2023 by PurpleTentacle

[MissLucas]

24 minutes ago, PurpleTentacle said:

It kinda does mean that, when you kill all of them in your country. If there aren't any you can't weaponize them.

There are still Grisha in Fjerda.

[PurpleTentacle]

2 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

There are still Grisha in Fjerda.

The show said otherwise. I assume that is book knowledge. If the show wanted us to know that they should have not said the opposite.

[MissLucas]

The assassin was Fjerdan so the show is contradicting itself or is pulling the non-reliable-narrator card. I guess the show will delve deeper into this when/if it's resumed. Or it will happen in the Six of Crows spin-off. I can't due to rules.

[PurpleTentacle]

Or it was just bad writing. Which wouldn't be something that unusual for this show...

[ursula]

4 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

It kinda does mean that, when you kill all of them in your country. If there aren't any you can't weaponize them.

They don’t kill all of them. (I don’t think they can. Being Grisha isn’t strictly genetic. Lots of members of the Second Army were “recruited” from normal families). Like every good fascist nation, they will reserve a few for labor camps and - most importantly - twisted experiment. What better way to know how to kill Grisha than to test your Grisha killing techniques on appropriate Guinea pigs? 

I don’t think the show is contradicting itself, as much as it’s delving more deeply into a new part of the world building. 

Edited April 1, 2023 by ursula

[absnow54]

On 3/31/2023 at 5:55 PM, PurpleTentacle said:

A drug anybody can just take, that makes every Grisha more powerfull than somebody with three legendary amplifiers, they spent years aquiring? Check!

This actually is book material. It was just a clunky transition from the Shadow and Bone trilogy into the Six of Crow duology, because we see all the effort that Alina, a living saint, went through to attain so much power, and then they immediately they went "Psych! Have you considered drugs?"

[Ohiopirate02]

14 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

This actually is book material. It was just a clunky transition from the Shadow and Bone trilogy into the Six of Crow duology, because we see all the effort that Alina, a living saint, went through to attain so much power, and then they immediately they went "Psych! Have you considered drugs?"

That was a clunky transition.  It would have been better if the show would have cut to scenes in Fjerda building up that storyline since it is concurrent and payoff for stuff that happened in season one.  

[absnow54]

1 hour ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

That was a clunky transition.  It would have been better if the show would have cut to scenes in Fjerda building up that storyline since it is concurrent and payoff for stuff that happened in season one.  

I'm actually surprised they didn't adapt Kirigan's mad scientist Vladim(?) to be involved in the creation of jurda parem, since we actually saw him synthesizing amplifiers all season.

[Zuleikha]

I don't think there is room for Vladim to be involved in jurga parem, though. They would have to change massive things that don't work.

Did the show completely forget that Ravka is at war with Shu Han? I haven't read the books in a while, but now I'm doubting myself. Did I make that up? Ravka being at war with Shu Han was still canon last season, right? 

I hated the ending because it made no sense. All the characters acted like idiots, and it didn't work with what was established. The show rushed too many things and dropped too many things, and I don't know why. What purpose is there in splitting up Inej/Kaz at this point in time? Why rush Jesper's character development in regards to his Durast powers so fast? Why have Nikolai/Alina go through with the marriage at this point in time, when it hardly seems politically necessary any more? Why leave Matthias in Hellgate all season when breaking him out in order to secure Nina's partnership would have been an obvious and better Crows storyline for part 1 than rushing Kaz's war with Pekka Rollins?

The other problem with Nikolai/Alina really getting married is that Alina/Mal have no on-screen chemistry but Nikolai/Alina do (although mostly because of the Nikolai actor). Since the show is changing so much from the books, I don't see a reason why they can't change Alina's romance arc.

[KatWay]

On 4/24/2023 at 9:01 PM, Zuleikha said:

The other problem with Nikolai/Alina really getting married is that Alina/Mal have no on-screen chemistry but Nikolai/Alina do (although mostly because of the Nikolai actor). Since the show is changing so much from the books, I don't see a reason why they can't change Alina's romance arc.

I disagree, I think she has the same comfortable friendly chemistry with Nikolai that she has with Mal. If anything, the actors sold me on the intense connection between Mal and Alina so I don't see her swerving to Nikolai 100%. Plus I know he apparently sucks in the books but show!Mal is a pretty great boyfriend, he's endlessly supportive of Alina. Fake an engagement with a future king? Makes sense, I trust you. Also he's my new bestie! I need to die for you to fulfil your destiny? Cool, let's do it. Hell, let me encourage the other guy to bring you happiness after I'm gone!

It's like they really wanted to stick it to the people insisting that the Darkling was the better love interest for Alina based on Ben Barnes being hot and people loving themselves a bad boy lol. Which involved people coming up with all kinds of flaws of "co-dependent", "possessive" Mal while conveniently ignoring the Darkling's whole...villain-thing.

[Quark]

I thought this was excellent.

Acting was great, very attractive cast as well. Ben Barnes is something else.

I hope our favourite Fjerdan has a happy ever after with Nina (probably my favourite character with Nikolai).

Edited May 21, 2023 by Quark

[tennisgurl]

What a weird ending, which is too bad because I've mostly really liked this season, even with some big flaws. I was surprised to see Kirigan defeated so quickly, everything seemingly wrapping up with thirty minutes still left, the pacing felt so awkward. They were trying to wrap up as many plots as they could but also set things up for another season in the last five minutes, like the writers panicked when they realized that they didn't set up everything they meant to and just tossed several random pages at the wall to see what stuck. The whole season had an issue with the many characters and plots being all over the place, but its all still worked pretty well for the most part until the very end. I'm glad that at least they went ahead and killed Kirigan and got rid of the Fold, I was worried that the show would fall into the trap of keeping their main villain around way past their narrative expiration date and wont like the protagonist do the main thing they set out to do from the start of the show, so I'm glad that we are moving onto something else, as fun as Kirigan is as a villain. The plots being set up now, Nikolai becoming a smoke monster, Alina getting shadow powers, the Fjerdan's weaponizing magic drugs and the Crows going off to steal the magic drugs, Inej and Mal being pirates, all sound pretty good, but it all feels so forced and rushed that I'm left with nothing but whiplash and a LOT of questions. 

The worst of the many plots by far was Nina and Matthis, which is really too bad because I really liked their plot last season because of the actors great chemistry, even though it was the plot most disconnected from the rest. Matthis was hardly around at all and it all just led to nothing, I kept wanting this plot to reach its end and for them to reunite and really join the main story, but that never happened. None of the main ships seemed to get much closure by the end of the show, except for Jesper and Wylan, who seem to be doing well. Mal breaks up with Alina for weird reasons and things are still platonic between her and Nikolai, Nina and Matthis are still separated, and Kaz and Inej are apart for now after things got awkward between them. I'm glad that I wasn't the only one who thought that Inej was pushing too hard with Kaz, he's already opening up to her more than he ever has with anyone outside of flashbacks, he actually asked her to stay, that's way bigger than him physically touching her right now. You would think she would understand that the level of trauma based fear he has of physically touch is something that cant easily be mended, even with love. 

I cant believe they killed David off offscreen like that, they really did him and Genya dirty. Poor Genya, has she not suffered enough? Its just getting mean now.

There were some things I liked. The effects and costumes are on point as usual, the acting continues to range from solid enough to excellent, the bit where Jasper got flustered about putting labels on his thing with Wylan while they were fighting the shadow monster was funny/cute, and Mal becoming the Dred Pirate Roberts made me smile. I hope that if there is a 3rd season and they can straighten a lot of this messiness out.

[Hanahope]

16 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

The worst of the many plots by far was Nina and Matthis, which is really too bad because I really liked their plot last season because of the actors great chemistry, even though it was the plot most disconnected from the rest. Matthis was hardly around at all and it all just led to nothing, I kept wanting this plot to reach its end and for them to reunite and really join the main story, but that never happened.

from what i heard, Matthias' and Nina's story was slow because the writers had to keep the audience reminded about Matthias but had no idea what to do with his story until he is re-united with the rest of the group, which is supposed to happen with their new story, hinted at the end.  i guess in the book its easy to bring characters back when needed, but on TV, they have to be shown now and again or people forget them (of course, that happens all the time in other shows).

[Ohiopirate02]

16 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I cant believe they killed David off offscreen like that, they really did him and Genya dirty. Poor Genya, has she not suffered enough? Its just getting mean now.

Taking my reply to the book talk on this one. Because that choice made me angry.