All Episodes Discussion

[Ohmo]

1 hour ago, cooksdelight said:

t was a dog beauty contest, for canines. Sorry, save me a seat on that bus.

That's actually a thing..  My sister-in-law is involved with them.  Trust me...don't ask.

[ridethemaverick]

5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Honestly - were there no other contestants that year? 

Dead behind the eyes. 

There wasn't much to this story. It was pretty clear from the start who did it and why.

The comments about the "beauty queen" on Dateline's Facebook page were hilarious. One woman from the area cleared it up; apparently it was one of those pageants where anyone with a few dollars for the entrance fee and a good speech had a chance to win. No beauty required.

Also, loved Keith picking up on the "designated area" slip. Lying little twat.

Edited December 16, 2017 by ridethemaverick

[walnutqueen]

44 minutes ago, ridethemaverick said:

Also, loved Keith picking up on the "designated area" slip. Lying little twat.

If that "designated area" slip wasn't the last nail in her coffin, I don't know what was.

[Ohmo]

Kaitlyn Conley has hired a new attorney for her appeal.

Kaitlyn Conley Gets a Third Attorney

For anyone who enjoys reading trial transcripts:

DA says he's going to post the trial transcript and the trial evidence online after Conley is sentenced.

Conley gets new attorney for appeal; DA to publish evidence online

[JudyObscure]

5 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

7 hours ago, ari333 said:

ANd if Toni was a beauty queen, who the hell else was in the competition? 

It was a dog beauty contest, for canines. Sorry, save me a seat on that bus.

Here in Ohio farm country we have a local, "Hog Queen."  I am not kidding.

I missed this episode, but  I'm enjoying everybody's comments so much.

[Madding crowd]

1 hour ago, Midnight Sun said:

The case of Toni and Kody reminds me of a similar lovers' triangle involving the two Air Force cadets.

Frankly, I fail to understand the necessity of offering either one of these dipshits a "deal," but what-the-hell-ever. And "beautiful" (gag) Toni will probably be released before she's forty years old, an age when the better part of my life began, so good for that little bitch. Anyway, BEWARE, future rivals! 

I immediately thought of the Air Force cadets, it was very similar. I think Cody was trying to make Toni happy by getting rid of her so called rival. I also think either he sweet talked Mickie into the car and then restrained her, or they just dragged her into the car. I don't believe Mickie would agree to go into the desert with the two of them. Toni was very unattractive in my opinion and was jealous of pretty Mickie. 

[cooksdelight]

Well, I’ve got all of y’all beat, unless you’ve got a Possum Queen in your area!

And the queen is a man!

[lilabennet]

The "designated area" was the place where they had already dug the grave the night before.  This was absolutely first degree murder instigated by Toni.  She is definitely the one that inflicted all of the most vicious wounds, particularly the ones to Mickie's face.  She is a sociopath (how else would a girl with a face like that be able to manipulate Kodi into a relationship, let alone get him to kill for her?) and I am truly afraid of what she will do once she gets out at 36.  No way she stops at just one victim in her lifetime.

[Ohmo]

4 hours ago, Midnight Sun said:

The case of Toni and Kody reminds me of a similar lovers' triangle involving the two Air Force cadets.

Air Force cadets?  I'm drawing a blank on that one.  Anyone have any more details so I can look it up?

Toni reminded me of that case we just saw on 48 Hours.  Carter and her boyfriend killed Ashley the store manager because Ashley was likely to tell the cops that Carter and boyfriend store 18 grand from the store.  Carter wore the pants in that relationship as well and had that crap story about being raped/attacked by "ghetto" men

[AZChristian]

3 minutes ago, Ohmo said:

Air Force cadets?  I'm drawing a blank on that one.  Anyone have any more details so I can look it up?

Here's the info on the female involved, Diane Zamora.  You can get the details for further searches there.

[Guest]

RE:  Toni and Kody

I suppose it is true.  Every pot has a lid.

But let me state that there are pots (Le Creuset) and then there are pots (Dollar Tree).

Toni clearly is in the Dollar Tree segment.  On the clearance table.

[Blissfool]

12 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Honestly - were there no other contestants that year? 

Maybe it was one of those situations in which the boy and girl who sell the most popcorn tins are crowned the king and queen of the festival...maybe?

[Kelly]

13 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

I immediately thought of the Air Force cadets, it was very similar. 

I thought the same thing.

For others...David Graham (Air Force Academy) & Diane Zamora (Naval Academy) killed Adrianne Jones. They killed Adrianne during their senior year in high school after David admitted to Diane that there had been a liason btwn him and Adrianne. David and Adrianne went to the same high school. Diane to a different high school.  They went off to their academies after high school, and they might have gotten away w it if Diane had kept her mouth shut.

I agree w the sentence of Toni...her parents probably cant accept that she was involved.  I agree w other posters in that - they cant have it both ways (Cody was a good kid/they were helping him out vs Cody was an abuser).

[lilabennet]

I don't agree with Toni's sentence at all.  As the instigator she should be the one spending life in prison.  I was really disappointed that she was offered a deal.  The prosecutor should have tried harder to get Kodi to turn on her.

[Ohmo]

In terms of the two cadets, there's a big difference there for me.  David and Diane both went to the service academies.  One of my college roommates wanted to transfer to the Air Force Academy.  She couldn't do it due to her grades.  Point being, you have to be very intelligent to get into the service academies.  That is more of an indication that David and Diane had the ability to be cunning and duplicitous.

Let's look at Kody.  He was struggling through school, and he was enlisting in the military after high school.  How shall I say this diplomatically?  Enlisting vs. attending one of the service academies often results in two different types of personnel.  Kody was also dating an older woman.  I think he was looking for someone or something to take care of him.  The military has rules and structure.  It pays you and helps you with things like housing---all things that probably appealed to Kody.  I think he got screwed, not only by Toni, but also by the legal system.  He started to give a statement and then stopped.  As has been asked in this thread, why?

I agree with everyone who says that Toni and Kody's sentences should be flipped---especially since Mickie's family is surprised by Kody's actions.  They've known him since childhood.  A shift like that is more indication to me that he was influenced by Toni, not the other way around.

Edited December 17, 2017 by Ohmo

[cooksdelight]

3 hours ago, Ohmo said:

He was struggling through school, and he was enlisting in the military after high school.  How shall I say this diplomatically?  Enlisting vs. attending one of the service academies often results in two different types of personnel

First off, bravo to everything you said, I totally agree. But this part, I can attest to. I’ve had a couple of extended family members who barely graduated high school, but the Marines took them in. They stayed for one stint, then left. One stupidly quit school after leaving, and lost all his free housing and other benefits.

[ari333]

Kody threw his life away for HER? I just dont get it - not for her or for anyone. Micki was his friend and he had no issues with her. I'm stumped... except toni had some hold over him? And I'm still stumped.

[cooksdelight]

Until Kody talks and tells all, we’ll never know, I’m afraid. 

I’ve seen not-so-pretty girls have an amazing hold over guys before and I still don’t know why they did what they did either.

[ari333]

Not only get him to participate in a horrible thing, but get him to take the fall for it too? stumped. Toni's parents gave me the creeps. And where were HIS parents? Why was he living with them? I got a strong feeling that they just wanted to marry her off to whoever.

[sainte-chapelle]

Toni s a sociopath and her mom dearest is the queen of enablers. I hope somehow she never gets out. I agree with all those who said she was the mastermind, cops dropped the ball on this one.

[ari333]

I understand a woman can have a hold on a man and vice versa, but good grief. Micki was his childhood friend and he had no apparent issues with her.  I could see him agreeing not to talk with her, but kill her? 

Also, I missed the part where they said that the grave was pre dug. REALLY?  Hence the "designated area." chills.

And folks who get in a car willingly dont have to be zip tied. How horrifying.

[Koalagirl]

On 12/16/2017 at 0:37 PM, walnutqueen said:

Somebody who got hit even harder with the fugly stick?  Just how small WAS that town?

I know, straight to Hell.  My handbasket has been decorated for decades, but it comes with a fully stocked bar.

I’ll keep you company in hell because I was thinking the exact same thing.

[Whimsy]

9 hours ago, Ohmo said:

Let's look at Kody.  He was struggling through school, and he was enlisting in the military after high school.  How shall I say this diplomatically?  Enlisting vs. attending one of the service academies often results in two different types of personnel. 

Honestly, this isn’t my experience. I joined the military right out of high school, as did my husband.  I joined because I literally had no other prospects, but I am extremely grateful because it has gotten me where I am today. While I’m not making six figures, I have a very reputable job that I only was able to obtain due to the skills learned in the military. Everyone I knew while I was enlisted were pretty intelligent people who were there to do a job. I will say, there is a difference depending on which branch you join. I feel like the really dumb guy who joins the military because they’re the dreck of society is a stereotype. Not saying that there aren’t dumb people enlisted in the military, but they’re the exception, not the rule. 

[Ohmo]

2 hours ago, Whimsy said:

I will say, there is a difference depending on which branch you join.

Thank you for your service and the service of your husband.  It's not actually physically possible for me to join the military.  My experiences in terms of enlisted personnel come from the accounts of several immediate family members who had extended interactions with enlisted members of the military over the course of several years.  They would very much agree with the part of your post that I quoted above.  They said as much several times.

[cooksdelight]

10 hours ago, ari333 said:

And where were HIS parents?

His dad was there, bringing him in to confess/take the fall. No idea about Mom or where she was.

Dad also brought Toni in to confess, in her pajamas. WHAT was that about?

[JudyObscure]

4 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

His dad was there, bringing him in to confess/take the fall. No idea about Mom or where she was.

Dad also brought Toni in to confess, in her pajamas. WHAT was that about?

I finally watched it and wondered the same thing. Maybe Kody's dad told Toni that the full story of how it was really all her plan was about to come out if she didn't confess having a part.

 

 I honestly don't know, if it was my son, if I would have the strength to make him confess.  I'm afraid I might be driving him across the border while telling myself it was all someone else's  fault.  In this case, I kind of think it was.  Only Toni had a long standing, ever escalating anger toward Mickey. Only Toni would want to destroy that much prettier face. Sometimes teenage boys have sex for the first time and think that the reason it feels so good is that, that particular girl is magical.  My guess is that Toni threatened to break-up if Kody didn't prove his love by grabbing Michaela and taking her to the designated area.  She may have told him  it was all just to scare Michaela, but then started wailing on her until it was too late to stop.

[Rowan]

First off, as a mother to a teenaged daughter just this age, this is my worst nightmare. I almost stopped watching a few times throughout just from the anxiety alone. 

My daughter and I have a checking in system similar to the one shown. That little murderous runt totally took full advantage of one of probably very few times Mickie was going to be alone and vulnerable. 

Psychotic jealousy plain and simple. She was the mastermind and the boyfriend was simply the muscle. They both deserve to rot. 

[applecrisp]

On 12/16/2017 at 1:29 PM, cooksdelight said:

It was a dog beauty contest, for canines. Sorry, save me a seat on that bus.

 

I don’t get that either. They found all of the calls made. Again, cops dropping the ball, I think.

 

He borrowed the car from a woman he was supposedly having an affair with. WTF???  Toni didn’t want her along for the ride?

I don’t know who’s idea it was at first, but they both willingly killed that girl and they both should be in prison for life with no parole.

I really thought it was all Toni. When they talked to the sister it became clear Cody had become quite mean to Mickey. She had started to ignore him. Toni was the driving force but he went a long. Somehow that made me really sad because her family was so conflicted about Cody, 

Edited December 18, 2017 by applecrisp

[ari333]

Was the grave "pre dug?"

[lilabennet]

2 hours ago, ari333 said:

Was the grave "pre dug?"

It was never confirmed in the episode, but I think it is very likely.

[cooksdelight]

Probably. Or there would be dirt in the lady’s SUV that they could tie to the location.

[walnutqueen]

"Designated location".

[biakbiak]

Did they mention that this gravel pit was a popular hangout for teens, I know small towns often have random places that teens hangout but I must have missed them saying that because them going there seems like it would be an indication of premeditation. 

[walnutqueen]

29 minutes ago, Midnight Sun said:

This murder certainly was premeditated. Regarding the grave: whether or not it was pre-dug, these two asshats just happened to have a handy-dandy shovel available - in a borrowed vehicle?! Uh, huh.

Now, admittedly, I stow a shovel in my car only because I may have to dig myself out of a snow berm. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

I stow a hatchet in my car console in case I run into a recalcitrant tree branch.

[AZChristian]

7 minutes ago, walnutqueen said:

I stow a hatchet in my car console in case I run into a recalcitrant tree branch.

I carry a .38.  I'm probably gonna have a lot of explaining to do under ANY circumstance.  LOL.

Disclaimer:  I do have a concealed carry permit, and have been taught to disclose that to any police officer who stops me, even for traffic violations.  Because I do not want to appear face down on the concrete in an episode of Cops, I would definitely comply.

[cooksdelight]

Oh, trust me, cops know you’re armed. A friend has a concealed carry permit also, and was pulled over for speeding one day. The cop VERY slowly approached her window and asked her to place her gun where he could see it.

[walnutqueen]

1 minute ago, AZChristian said:

I carry a .38.  I'm probably gonna have a lot of explaining to do under ANY circumstance.  LOL.

Disclaimer:  I do have a concealed carry permit, and have been taught to disclose that to any police officer who stops me, even for traffic violations.  Because I do not want to appear face down on the concrete in an episode of Cops, I would definitely comply.

44 magnum revolver.  Nickel plated & "collectible". Rarely leaves the gun (/jewelry) safe, but is likely to leave a very big hole if fired.   Woe & betide the poor cop who tries to order me down to the pavement - my knees don't work that way anymore.   I am SO dead.

[AZChristian]

8 minutes ago, walnutqueen said:

44 magnum revolver.  Nickel plated & "collectible". Rarely leaves the gun (/jewelry) safe, but is likely to leave a very big hole if fired.   Woe & betide the poor cop who tries to order me down to the pavement - my knees don't work that way anymore.   I am SO dead.

Having had a knee replacement that resulted in poor flexibility now, it makes my knees hurt whenever they yell at someone on Cops, "Go down to your knees.  Do it NOW."  Old age sucks.

[walnutqueen]

48 minutes ago, AZChristian said:

Having had a knee replacement that resulted in poor flexibility now, it makes my knees hurt whenever they yell at someone on Cops, "Go down to your knees.  Do it NOW."  Old age sucks.

Yes, indeedy.

We could've been some BAD-assed desperados, except for the creaky old parts.  :-)

[biakbiak]

1 hour ago, Midnight Sun said:

This murder certainly was premeditated.

Oh i think it was premeditated but that isn't the story that either went with so was curious if they offered an alternative explanation for being at the gravel pit.

Edited December 19, 2017 by biakbiak

[Ohmo]

3 hours ago, biakbiak said:

Did they mention that this gravel pit was a popular hangout for teens,

I thought they did say that, yes.  Mickie's older sister talked about going to look for her, and the way she mentioned the gravel pits also seemed like it was a familiar gathering spot around town.

[biakbiak]

2 minutes ago, Ohmo said:

I thought they did say that, yes.  Mickie's older sister talked about going to look for her, and the way she mentioned the gravel pits also seemed like it was a familiar gathering spot around town.

Thanks! I am so glad that I wasn't raised in a small town where hanging at the gravel pit is a legit activity.

[walnutqueen]

23 minutes ago, Midnight Sun said:

Hmm, good query, I don't know. Anybody? I'm still focused on the DAMN SHOVEL!

In addition to bashing her nemesis' face in, it served as a stand-in for her own fugly face.

(I DID warn you that this case made me a little cranky!)

 

9 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

Thanks! I am so glad that I wasn't raised in a small town where hanging at the gravel pit is a legit activity.

The most desirable locale back in the day was the rather remote gravel pit, where every desirable young girl & boy went swimming.

[bubbls]

3 hours ago, walnutqueen said:

 

 

The most desirable locale back in the day was the rather remote gravel pit, where every desirable young girl & boy went swimming.

 

Yep! We called it the rock pits where we only swam during the day due to alligators. Then we had the spillway where many a young maiden lost her baubles. This particular young maiden dug plenty of glass out of her feet due walking around barefoot while buzzed. 

Edited December 19, 2017 by bubbls

[walnutqueen]

19 hours ago, bubbls said:

 

Yep! We called it the rock pits where we only swam during the day due to alligators. Then we had the spillway where many a young maiden lost her baubles. This particular young maiden dug plenty of glass out of her feet due walking around barefoot while buzzed. 

Have I ever told you you're my hero ...?

[ari333]

In my day teens went to the quarry. I never went. I was ah-skeered.

[Guest]

On ‎12‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 5:04 PM, Midnight Sun said:

Now, admittedly, I stow a shovel in my car only because I may have to dig myself out of a snow berm. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

I've got a bat.  A co-worker has tennis racquet in her car. 

Needless to say when we travel to schools in dicey areas I drive my jeep because of the bat.

When she balks I tell her that her tennis racquet is not sufficient in the event of an ambush. 

Frankly, I'm not sure my bat is either but she shuts up about my jeep and my driving.

[cooksdelight]

We had the Lots. A new subdivision that was in the early stages of being developed. A road, but not much more.

I hope one day Kody wakes up and tells the full story.

[ButterQueen]

Was there a new Dateline last week?  Mine didn't record anything.

[MerBearHou]

Just saw the Frank Howard Dateline.  OMG I was shocked that John turned out to be Frank.  For me, that was a doozie.  What a scheming, cheating, embezzling, cold-hearted, selfish bastard in the persona of Ward Cleaver.  I could not stand the older daughter who insisted on doing 90% of the talking and yes, those daughters are beyond delusional.  Though John/Frank's associates were a mangy crew of lowlifes, the evidence against Frank was so strong (photos, phone calls and records, dirty money traced to him, and certainly motive) -- if I'd been on that jury, I would have decided guilty just as quickly as they did (90 minutes -- wow).  

Clearly the Howard son declined to participate in the show (smart guy).  I couldn't help myself -- I liked the big former bodyguard guy in plaid (maybe Charlie) who spoke the unvarnished truth.  He was a rascally "character" to watch -- I'm sure Dateline thought he was TV gold.  

Nancy Howard is a warm, gracious, kind, amazingly strong woman and what a heartbreaking experience.  So thankful she survived and has rebuilt a pretty good life, as well as she can.

Edited December 23, 2017 by MerBearHou