All Episodes Discussion

[12catcrazy]

On 6/11/2022 at 4:34 PM, PsychoKlown said:

In my profession I encounter so many older women who think they can charm people with their cutesy behavior.   She was attempting this while talking to the flabbergasted detective on the phone requesting a letter of innocence.  

I also think that she believes she’s the smartest person in the room and in her mind there was no question that the jury would believe her. She certainly failed with reading that room. 

I usually do not mind an hour episode but this was one I wished was two hours. I would like to know more about what the stepson feared from this woman.  I suspect he had some interesting stories.

I know the verdict was just announced so I’m guessing Dateline wanted to strike while the irons were hot.  I just wish they would have done a deeper dive on this case…it might have been worth a few more weeks of investigation.

 

I had a slow day at work yesterday so I tried to do a deeper dive into this case; unfortunately didn't come up with all that much - just that the victim and his wife met in the early 1990s and that he divorced his wife in 1994 and was estranged from his son for many years (what happened there seems like needed background material).   Also that the murderer had a successful catering business where she didn't cook but did the business end of it, until the last recession pretty much killed it.   Also that the insurance and extras she had on hubby was more like $1.3 million and that she had wanted to sell the house and travel the world and apparently hubby hadn't been totally on board with those plans.  

Yeah, lots of background that I wish we knew about this case.  A "happily married" spouse usually doesn't decide to bump off their husband or wife without some kind of good (in their minds anyway) reason.  

Also, Psychoklown, do you think the older women - cutesy behavior thing comes from some women trying to use their sex appeal to get what they want, and then when said sex appeal fades with age, going the cutesy route because they are used to trying to manipulate others and when one angle is gone, they try another?  

[GiandujaPie]

6 hours ago, 12catcrazy said:

Also that the insurance and extras she had on hubby was more like $1.3 million and that she had wanted to sell the house and travel the world and apparently hubby hadn't been totally on board with those plans.  

Yeah, lots of background that I wish we knew about this case.  A "happily married" spouse usually doesn't decide to bump off their husband or wife without some kind of good (in their minds anyway) reason.  

The show did mention that Nancy thought her husband was a "curmudgeon". I remember that because it's such a funny word. My husband is older than me and I jokingly said he better not become a curmudgeon too. LOL

[Lovecat]

On 6/12/2022 at 4:31 AM, Tdoc72 said:

Found it hard to focus on this one because I kept wondering why the one cop had scotch tape on his forehead. 

On 6/12/2022 at 1:58 PM, pdlinda said:

I'm with you on that😄

Maybe someone can help us understand what the tape on the forehead was all about???

On 6/12/2022 at 3:30 PM, patty1h said:

I assumed that it was some kind of surgical tape/covering because no sane person would go onto network TV with some packing tape on his face.   Maybe he had some incision or scar that needed to be covered.

On 6/12/2022 at 5:26 PM, TVbitch said:

I assumed the surgical tape was because he was healing from some minor surgery or procedure such as removing some skin cancer or hitting his head and needing stitches. 

On 6/13/2022 at 11:03 AM, JudyObscure said:

I, too,  was fascinated by the string tape on the detective's forward, so I noticed in a quick later scene, as he bent over the other guy, the tape was gone and he had a new looking surgical ridge all the way across the top of his forehead.  I expect he had done what a lot of tall men do and misjudged the height of a doorway or garage door.  Either that or zombies were planning to lift off the top and eat his brains. 

Josh should have known we'd be interested and asked for us!

Josh tweeted that the detective had had some skin cancer removed (he's fine!); he actually said in his tweet that he knew people would be asking :)  If there was a surgical ridge it sounds like he had a wide excision closed with stitches.

[JudyObscure]

Amber Heard is not my idea of a Dateline. Neither is Savannah Guthrie.

[UsernameFatigue]

4 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Amber Heard is not my idea of a Dateline. Neither is Savannah Guthrie.

I actually didn't watch, for those reasons. Also I have had parts of the trial on my screen over the last several weeks since it has had so much exposure. Not interested in seeing more. 

[TVbitch]

I didn't even record it. In any snippets I've seen of their circus of a trial, they both came off looking like volatile, rich lunatics.  

[iMonrey]

I don't think I'd seen "Rear Window" before. At the end when Andrea was interviewing Denney the camera perspective made her head look ginormous. Or maybe she actually has a ginormous head and I've never noticed before.

I did think it was strange that there was unidentified hair found in the victim's hands that didn't match Denney. I wonder if maybe he had an accomplice. It surely came from whoever attacked her.

[TVbitch]

Rear Window was a rerun, but I couldn't remember enough to know if any additional update had been added. I hope they are still looking for the accomplice. I will say Andrea effectively unnerved the killer with the "uh huh, right" tone of her questioning. 

FYI, I recently discovered the show Interrogation Raw on A&E. Terrible title, but I really like the show. It focuses on longer portions of interviews/interrogations at different points in the case, and the cops talk about their motivations behind how they approached the interviews and what they were picking up in body language and stuff. It also nicely takes you through the case and outcome in a crisp hour. Some of the cases I recognized from Dateline/48 Hours, but I still found the longer portions of the interviews interesting. 

[JudyObscure]

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I did think it was strange that there was unidentified hair found in the victim's hands that didn't match Denney. I wonder if maybe he had an accomplice. It surely came from whoever attacked her.

I know Dateline likes to pretend that their stunningly beautiful, room lighting women who are out at the clubs every night are all virgins, but I imagine they might actually have frequent bedmates and not a lot of time to wash the sheets.  So I thought maybe she had been clutching at the pillows and sheets during the struggle and picked up a hair that had already been there.  They did mention they had unidentified sperm, too.

Denny kind of disproved the police's assumption that the killer had to be someone she knew who was angry at her.  I would like to see an interview with the mother who raised two boys who hate women enough to stab them 100 times.  

This is one of the scariest episodes to me. The monsters out there!  That Denny who seemed so timid and baby faced could be so evil,.  The dishwasher who readily admitted to a recurring fantasy about stabbing and raping women. 

[TVbitch]

I guess we will be getting an update episode on this one.... 

Disgraced South Carolina attorney Alex Murdaugh indicted for murders of wife and son

https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/14/us/alex-murdaugh-blood-splatter-clothes/index.html

[patty1h]

Last nights rerun "True Lies" first aired back in 2015.  What a tangled web:  Father Bill Kind and son Kevin each accusing the other of killing wife/mother Diane Kind.  One of the men in this case was so calculated that they had the foresight to make a phone call minutes after committing murder to try to cover themselves.  One of these men is a murderer who got away with it.   

Bill Kind seemed very sketchy with an earlier wife who died under weird circumstances and got a big insurance payout for that, and also various business-related insurance claims.  Then I gave a side-eye to Kevin because of his history of violence and his very stiff and stoic demeanor... he reminded me of Private Pyle of "Full Metal Jacket".  Kevin seemed like the epitome of a freeloading manbaby who flipped when he was told that mommy was going to make him leave the nest.

Since I couldn't remember the outcome of the case, I watched this to see who went to prison.  I was in the camp that the son was guilty, but what a whirlwind to see Kevin go to prison, but then get exonerated.    After watching again, I still think the son did it.

Edited July 30, 2022 by patty1h

[Irlandesa]

I did too.  And yet, the previous dead wife seems so suspicious to me.  To fall out of the blue, land in the pool and get a life insurance payout?

If I were to try it again, I'd make sure I'd have a convenient patsy to blame it on this time. 

It's just a tough one.  Really tough.

[TVbitch]

This reminds me of the one with the Asian dad who was shot at his desk with the mom and son in the house but neither would talk, so the son was jailed but the entire community rallied around him as a "great guy" and the evidence was unclear, and he was set free. Um, the guy is still dead and one of them did it! 

I had no memory of this one. Both the husband and son seemed sketchy as hell to me and I first thought maybe they were in on it together. Neither seemed to give a damn about the woman. The son went on and on about how close they were (but had to email each other instead of speaking and have cops come out) and the husband went on about how she was everything he wanted (cuz she was hot). The husband saying at the end "oh well, she wouldn't want him in jail for life" made me think he did it. But the son seems guilty too. 

[CrazyInAlabama]

Some cases on here are just like a Law & Order episode.   Two suspects, and not enough to prove which one did the murder, so they both get away with it.    

Then, there's the victim in a lot of cases, where everyone says they're a great person, and loved.   Then, when a relative is accused, all of a sudden the victim is claimed to be an abuser,     Cases like the Menendez brothers where horrific abuse was claimed, did anyone present physical evidence of abuse?   And why didn't anyone say anything over the years?    

Edited July 31, 2022 by CrazyInAlabama

[Irlandesa]

2 hours ago, TVbitch said:

This reminds me of the one with the Asian dad who was shot at his desk with the mom and son in the house but neither would talk, so the son was jailed but the entire community rallied around him as a "great guy" and the evidence was unclear, and he was set free. Um, the guy is still dead and one of them did it! 

Is that the one where the dad was abusive? 

[TVbitch]

10 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Is that the one where the dad was abusive?

I can't remember. I think maybe he was controlling and difficult. I don't think he was physically abusive or that it warranted the "he deserved to die!" feeling around the case. 

In this case, neither party, after supposedly seeing the other choking Diane, bothered to check on her. They chased each other around, out into the yard, tussled, called 911 and waited for cops to arrive, but the "innocent" one didn't never went back to see if they could help this person they loved so much.  

[Kelly]

On 7/30/2022 at 8:40 PM, TVbitch said:

This reminds me of the one with the Asian dad who was shot at his desk with the mom and son in the house but neither would talk, so the son was jailed but the entire community rallied around him as a "great guy" and the evidence was unclear, and he was set free. Um, the guy is still dead and one of them did it! 

Are you thinking of Charlie Tan?  I believe he's in prison for the murder of his father...I could be wrong tho.  Sad case.

[KittyMom4]

2 hours ago, Kelly said:

Are you thinking of Charlie Tan?  I believe he's in prison for the murder of his father...I could be wrong tho.  Sad case.

He's actually in on gun charges relating to the gun that was used to kill his father. I believe he was never convicted of killing his dad. He has however, admitted to doing so in order to lessen his current 20 year sentence. It did not work.

[TVbitch]

I was not aware of these updates and had to google...

The criminal case against Tan has been circuitous, with a trial on a murder charge ending with a stalemated jury, then a judge dismissing the murder count after deciding there was not sufficient evidence for the charge. An appellate court later ruled that then-state Supreme Court Justice James Piampiano's decision to dismiss the case was wrong and legally unsound, but the murder charge could not be reinstated.

In 2018, Tan pleaded guilty to tricking a friend into purchasing the shotgun Tan wielded to kill his father. Scullin sentenced Tan to 20 years for the weapons purchase. Scullin ruled that Tan had clearly used the gun to kill his father, thus allowing for the severity of the sentence. At sentencing, Tan did not admit to the homicide. 

In his 2019 bid to have his sentence reduced, Tan for the first time confessed to shooting his father in the face with a shotgun blast, as his father sat behind a desk.

[TVbitch]

Friday night's episode was new to me, but pretty damn depressing. 

[patty1h]

"The Intruder" (2017) - Another rerun, but it was a classic "the husband did it".  Greg Owens embarks on an affair and instead of getting a divorce, he puts on a mask and shoots his wife Rachel in the head. 

All this carnage happens because Greg has acquired himself a girlfriend named Betsy, who he told that his wife had early Alzheimers and he is working to divorce her.  He strings Betsy along for 5 years, until Betsy learns that Rachel is not suffering from dementia - Greg has been living a double life, juggling both women.  Then he decides the wife needs to go so he can keep Betsy.  He is so intent on getting rid of Rachel, he sets up to murder her while she's visiting some friends, in a home invasion scenario.  He also shot her friend and tried to shoot the friends husband. 

Greg was willing to take out 3 innocent people to be with his girlfriend.  Luckily, neither of the women he shot died, but Rachel still has a bullet in her head to this day.  Greg is the scum of the earth.

[TVbitch]

Rachel most definitely did NOT have any "no way my husband did this" delusions. I wish they would have given us some reason why he did not want to divorce her. Yeah, it might cost him some alimony, but the kids were adults, so what is the big deal. Sheesh. 

[Annber03]

I'm amazed he was able to keep up the ruse for 5 years. He didn't seem that great at covering his tracks. 

It was nice to see a story where Betsy, once she realized she was "the other woman", put her foot down and told him it was over. But given her training and everything, I'm a bit surprised that she didn't consider it odd that she puts an end to this relationship with Greg, and then about, what was it, two weeks later, his wife conveniently winds up being shot. 

But yeah. He was scum. Thank goodness his wife survived, and that she was able to ultimately help ensure he paid for his crimes in the end. 

Edited August 20, 2022 by Annber03

[CrazyInAlabama]

2 hours ago, TVbitch said:

Rachel most definitely did NOT have any "no way my husband did this" delusions. I wish they would have given us some reason why he did not want to divorce her. Yeah, it might cost him some alimony, but the kids were adults, so what is the big deal. Sheesh. 

A lot of times the perp doesn't want to pay for a divorce, lose any property or have to pay to keep it, and there may be issues splitting retirement, or other funds.    Also, there may be insurance on the victim, payable to the perp too.    It's just greed. 

Edited August 21, 2022 by CrazyInAlabama

[patty1h]

It's hard to not despise Greg for being a cheater, a liar and attempted triple murderer, but if he had gotten away with killing Rachel (AND two friends), he would look his son in the eyes for the rest of his life knowing what he did to his child's mother.   Add to that the family of Rachel's friends would have lost their loved ones because this selfish asshole needed to be with his sidepiece.   Hate!

[DonnaMae]

I really like this program, but I wish they could just go to the ads without the 'coming ups'.  Why not just go to the ads, then come back without telling us what's coming up?  I always record them and watch later.

[KittyMom4]

On 8/20/2022 at 8:10 PM, CrazyInAlabama said:

A lot of times the perp doesn't want to pay for a divorce, lose any property or have to pay to keep it, and there may be issues splitting retirement, or other funds.    Also, there may be insurance on the victim, payable to the perp too.    It's just greed. 

Exactly. My divorce was contentious, we used mediation rather than hash it out with lawyers and the most heated discussions was over the house, (I refinanced in my name) his retirement (which I declined to take) and additional money for the kids not covered by NYS child support laws (sports programs, school supplies, etc.). I can tell you my ex would turn beet red and visibly shake whenever those topics were discussed. For the next 10+ years until we were done with CS he was bitter, nasty and outright hostile when he had to send the money. He never paid a dime over what was mandated. Years later he did apologize to me and his daughters but every time I see one of these dickheads kill their spouse over $$$ I get shivers. 

On 8/20/2022 at 8:47 PM, patty1h said:

It's hard to not despise Greg for being a cheater, a liar and attempted triple murderer, but if he had gotten away with killing Rachel (AND two friends), he would look his son in the eyes for the rest of his life knowing what he did to his child's mother.   Add to that the family of Rachel's friends would have lost their loved ones because this selfish asshole needed to be with his sidepiece.   Hate!

I always wonder how these asshats can look at their children ever again. My ex may have been a mean, controlling, selfish prick to me but I would never deny my children his presence in their lives. And once they're caught they go to jail, so there's 2 parents not able to raise their children. So senseless.

[GiandujaPie]

The episode about the Whitehead twins was on over the weekend and I think it's the most disturbing one I've seen yet. I had never heard of this case until this episode. I can't even imagine how the mother must have felt as she was getting viciously attacked by her own kids. The twins are true psychopaths. I couldn't find any updated information about them though. It said they were up for parole in 2017 (which I don't understand as they were sentenced to 30 years) but I couldn't find anything that said if it had been granted. I can't imagine that it would. 

[eel21788]

7 hours ago, GiandujaPie said:

The episode about the Whitehead twins was on over the weekend and I think it's the most disturbing one I've seen yet. I had never heard of this case until this episode. I can't even imagine how the mother must have felt as she was getting viciously attacked by her own kids. The twins are true psychopaths. I couldn't find any updated information about them though. It said they were up for parole in 2017 (which I don't understand as they were sentenced to 30 years) but I couldn't find anything that said if it had been granted. I can't imagine that it would. 

I used my super ninja googling skills: both are still serving time at different facilities in Georgia.

https://gdc.ga.gov/GDC/Offender/Query

[Irlandesa]

I feel like there must be more to the story.  Their grandmother raised them most of their lives until the mom decided she wanted custody again. 

[CrazyInAlabama]

I saw an OWN rerun Dateline : Secrets Uncovered "Before Dawn" about the disturbing case of Seth Techel, who murdered his pregnant wife.     He was finally convicted after three trials (two had hung juries).     Lisa Caldwell (Techel), had been married only seven months when the murder happened.      The couple had a roommate until they were turning that bedroom into a nursery, and the roommate's shotgun was the one that was used.  

The husband tried to blame the neighbor, but Seth was the one who had the run ins with the neighbor, so he claimed that man was the prime suspect.   However, would that neighbor have killed the wife, and left the husband showering, and helpless?    I don't think so. 

Why did this couple ever marry?  They were both cheating, she didn't even know if husband, or lover was the baby's father.   Also the couple were both early 20's when they married, he was having an emotional affair with some woman, and it turned out wife was having an affair for months before she married, and after, with a co-worker.   

Co-worker was a father of four, but not father of Lisa's baby.   Three years later his wife testified where husband was at the time of the murder, which I find ludicrous.   There is no way she would remember the husband's alibi that long later, she was just protecting her life with the husband. 

The big clincher for me was the shotgun was the former roommate's, and was supposedly left behind in the move out, since roommate had an injured shoulder, and couldn't even try to fire a shotgun.    Also, right before the murder, the husband told his girlfriend he was asking for a divorce, and then wife is killed.  Husband also told another man he wished his wife would have a fatal car accident.    I wonder if there was any life insurance on her?

The police work was so sloppy, they never even finger printed the shotgun shell to see who's prints were on the shells,  Shotgun formerly belonging to roommate was found outside the house too, in a field near the trailer.     The incompetence of the prosecution and defense research about the couple was horrible, and the forensics work by the police was appallingly awful.   The third trial was the first time the wife's affair partner was discovered.  

Dateline Secrets Uncovered Prussian Blue Mystery---Brigita McInvale's husband Race Uto tried to kill her with Thallium, and it's horrifying.   Brigita was very close to death, until a toxicology specialist figured out what was killing her.   Another one who tells the mistress his wife is dead, I guess he studied at the Scott Peterson school of avoiding divorce. 

Edited September 8, 2022 by CrazyInAlabama

[GiandujaPie]

21 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

I saw an OWN rerun Dateline : Secrets Uncovered "Before Dawn" about the disturbing case of Seth Techel, who murdered his pregnant wife.     He was finally convicted after three trials (two had hung juries).     Lisa Caldwell (Techel), had been married only seven months when the murder happened.      The couple had a roommate until they were turning that bedroom into a nursery, and the roommate's shotgun was the one that was used.  

The husband tried to blame the neighbor, but Seth was the one who had the run ins with the neighbor, so he claimed that man was the prime suspect.   However, would that neighbor have killed the wife, and left the husband showering, and helpless?    I don't think so. 

Why did this couple ever marry?  They were both cheating, she didn't even know if husband, or lover was the baby's father.   Also the couple were both early 20's when they married, he was having an emotional affair with some woman, and it turned out wife was having an affair for months before she married, and after, with a co-worker.   

Co-worker was a father of four, but not father of Lisa's baby.   Three years later his wife testified where husband was at the time of the murder, which I find ludicrous.   There is no way she would remember the husband's alibi that long later, she was just protecting her life with the husband. 

The big clincher for me was the shotgun was the former roommate's, and was supposedly left behind in the move out, since roommate had an injured shoulder, and couldn't even try to fire a shotgun.    Also, right before the murder, the husband told his girlfriend he was asking for a divorce, and then wife is killed.  Husband also told another man he wished his wife would have a fatal car accident.    I wonder if there was any life insurance on her?

The police work was so sloppy, they never even finger printed the shotgun shell to see who's prints were on the shells,  SHotgun formerly belonging to roommate was found outside the house too.     The incompetence of the prosecution and defense research about the couple was horrible, and the forensics work by the police was appallingly awful.   

This was the subject of an American Justice episode on A&E a few weeks ago. I don't remember that show mentioning that the shotgun was the roommate's gun but I seem to recall that the police found the shotgun in a field around the house that they suspected was the murder weapon. They set up cameras around that area and when Seth was released from interrogation and went home, he made a beeline for where the shotgun was hidden in the grass. LOL

[oliviabenson]

On 9/6/2022 at 7:49 PM, Irlandesa said:

I feel like there must be more to the story.  Their grandmother raised them most of their lives until the mom decided she wanted custody again. 

I saw the twins on a few different shows. Basically grandma let the twins do whatever they wanted/be wild. Mom wanted the twins to behave and go to school etc. the twins wanted to live with grandma…

I think they killed their mom to live as they wanted. No rules etc

[GiandujaPie]

I watched the 2 Dateline reruns that were on this weekend as they were new to me. The triangle involving Frances, Bill and Bonnie was infuriating. I can't believe Frances only got a 2 year sentence. Frankly, I'm glad that the only who got killed was Bill, the philanderer who was the cause and the object of all that fury. Both women frankly deserved that he died and are lucky that someone else wasn't killed in their reckless and selfish behavior. She deserved a longer sentence not for what she did to Bill but for the terror she caused on the road. I hope Frances ends up with a nice long prison sentence for her insurance fraud to make up for this. And Bonnie was a real piece of work. Of course she was a gold digger and her antagonism towards Bill's wife ended up backfiring on her as he ended up dying without a will. 

The episode about Gavin Smith was really strange too. The whole family had a weird look to them. And how stupid was the jury to believe Creech's claim of self-defense? If it was self-defense, why did he go to such lengths to cover it up? And unbelievable that the prosecution decided they had to give immunity to those who enabled the coverup. These friends allowed Creech to store a car with a dead body in it at their garage! Ugh...all of those people were disgustingly creepy. 

[Annber03]

12 hours ago, GiandujaPie said:

I watched the 2 Dateline reruns that were on this weekend as they were new to me. The triangle involving Frances, Bill and Bonnie was infuriating. I can't believe Frances only got a 2 year sentence. Frankly, I'm glad that the only who got killed was Bill, the philanderer who was the cause and the object of all that fury. Both women frankly deserved that he died and are lucky that someone else wasn't killed in their reckless and selfish behavior. She deserved a longer sentence not for what she did to Bill but for the terror she caused on the road. I hope Frances ends up with a nice long prison sentence for her insurance fraud to make up for this. And Bonnie was a real piece of work. Of course she was a gold digger and her antagonism towards Bill's wife ended up backfiring on her as he ended up dying without a will. 

I didn't see the "Dateline" episode on this case, but I have seen it covered on a couple other shows, and yeah, it's just a frustrating story the whole way around. I fully agree Frances should've gotten a stiffer sentence for the simple fact that it wasn't just the three of them whose lives were in danger on the road that day. Like you said, she could've hurt or killed some totally innocent person who had absolutely no connection whatsoever to this ridiculous drama. I don't have sympathy for people who put innocent people's lives in danger because they can't figure out how to deal with their personal issues like mature adult human beings. 

Course, having to live with the fact that your actions led to your husband's death is a pretty damning sentence in its own right, so... But yeah, still stupid behavior on her part. And Bonnie was absolutely no better, openly taunting Frances as she did and egging on the back and forth between them. And of course Bill didn't bother to stop it, 'cause hey, two women fighting over him, why would he? I always look at the guys these women are fighting (literally, in some cases) to the death for and all I can think is, "WHY?" He's not worth it. No man is. The sooner women in these situations realize that and and just dump the guy's ass and walk away, the better for all involved. 

[EtheltoTillie]

Hi, Dateliners. I’m back for the new season. But last night’s episode (the bike racer) was so slow I bailed.  I looked up the case. It’s so recent there hasn’t been a trial yet. 

[answerphone]

Why a season opener that has not gone to trial?  I felt like my DVR recording cut off, and I was left without a conclusion. 
 

And it seems fairly obvious who the murderer is. 
 

The segments with a mysterious twist are the most interesting!

[mythoughtis]

The last ride episode… much too early in this process for a two hour episode.     There seems to be evidence that one of the guns that her boyfriend bought can be tied to the murder.  There seems to be a SUV that looks like hers and has a bike rack there, but no license plate tie-in.  She then relocated and used fake  names and possibly her sister’s passport.  Wouldn't the airline have matched the passport to the name  on the ticket?  

It doesn’t look good for her.  And the cheating boyfriend?   Once you are caught cheating, it’s time to pick one or the other.   The murder victim didn’t deserve to be murdered because she was dating him, but she would be alive if she  just walked away once she a) found out he lived with Kaitlyn, b) wasn’t moving  out, and c) Kaitlyn had confronted her directly with these two facts. C being the most important - when you start getting multiple irate calls from your ‘competition’, it’s time to take precautions.   These type of crimes are in  the news a lot. 
 

 

[Annber03]

Yeah, fleeing doesn't exactly help if you're trying to proclaim your innocence. On the one hand, I continue to be amazed that people try and flee in this day and age, with all the ways and means one can use to track them. On the other hand, it did seem like investigators were behind the ball a bit in terms of trying to find and catch up with her. 

Her defense attorney's explanation for why his client couldn't be guilty was weird, too. Trying to paint this as the result of misogyny was an....interesting take. I mean, I don't exactly put anything past the boyfriend, either, I could totally buy him at the very least knowing about the murder plan, if not actively being involved. But a woman attacking another woman for having a thing with her guy is not exactly uncommon or unbelievable. 

(And of course, again, we have a big drama over a guy who, upon looking at and hearing about him, makes you wonder why anyone's wasting their energy fighting about him in the first place. Seriously, ladies. It's not worth it. No guy is ever worth this nonsense.)

My mom and I also got a kick out of the surfer dude they interviewed at one point. Good lord, could he be ANY more of a surfer bro stereotype, or what? My mom was like,  "So I guess he just couldn't be bothered to put on a shirt before being interviewed for this show?" 

[JudyObscure]

On 9/12/2022 at 11:15 AM, GiandujaPie said:

The episode about Gavin Smith was really strange too. The whole family had a weird look to them.

I thought Gavin's wife Lisa, his sister Tara, and Keith Morrison all looked just alike.

[Irlandesa]

I understand why they did an episode on this murder even before a trial/verdict but I seem to recall this murder making the news.  So much like the Vallow case, Dateline wanted to capitalize.  2 hours was a bit much for a case so early in the process but I surprisingly didn't feel like fast forwarding through any part.

44 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Her defense attorney's explanation for why his client couldn't be guilty was weird, too. Trying to paint this as the result of misogyny was an....interesting take. I mean, I don't exactly put anything past the boyfriend, either, I could totally buy him at the very least knowing about the murder plan, if not actively being involved. But a woman attacking another woman for having a thing with her guy is not exactly uncommon or unbelievable. 

He was arguing the police jumped to conclusions based on the "crazy jealous women" trope and that the cops don't actually have much evidence.  Most of their suspicions are based on the fact that she had a similar-looking car and went to Costa Rica.  I think she's guilty but he strikes me as a decent lawyer in that he put in question the evidence the cops have. 

I don't think Colin was in on this.  I think he's a sleaze in that it doesn't sound like he's honest with the women he dates but the only reason to go along with a murder scheme is for one of those "prove your love" scenarios and it sounds like they didn't see each other pretty quickly after the murder.

[JudyObscure]

15 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

He was arguing the police jumped to conclusions based on the "crazy jealous women" trope and that the cops don't actually have much evidence. 

Yes, and good lawyers know how to get stupid jurors all riled up and distracted from the facts.  An even more common trope than crazy jealous woman is crazy jealous man, but the word misandry just doesn't flame people up like misogyny.

So soon after the Gavin Smith case where that horrible Johhny Creech got off from his murder charge because he spoke in a soft voice and said the magic words, "I feared for my life," I've lost all faith in juries.  Kaitlyn may well walk and I think she's evil.  Shooting a young woman point blank like that?  

Maybe it's a generational thing, but for me, "We're together" just does not carry one tenth the weight of "We're married," so I despised Kaitlyn just for giving Mo a hard time.  She has no special rights over Colin (I agree he's a liar, but he is not married.)

16 hours ago, Annber03 said:

My mom and I also got a kick out of the surfer dude they interviewed at one point

We thought he was hilarious, too.  He's so sure he's deep and enlightened because he teaches yoga.  I loved, "People here are either unwanted or wanted."

[TVbitch]

She's guilty as hell, but I hope the police have more evidence than they are letting on. It doesn't sound like they got anything from the crime scene but the shell casings. Kaitlyn's lawyer seems extremely confident. 

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

Maybe it's a generational thing, but for me, "We're together" just does not carry one tenth the weight of "We're married," so I despised Kaitlyn just for giving Mo a hard time.  She has no special rights over Colin (I agree he's a liar, but he is not married.)

They were living together, though, weren't they?  Either way, killing the woman your dude is sleeping with isn't the answer regardless of marital status.

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

We thought he was hilarious, too.  He's so sure he's deep and enlightened because he teaches yoga.  I loved, "People here are either unwanted or wanted."

I had to laugh at the bartender who, when describing Kaitlyn, mentioned something like 'teaches' yoga describes about half the women who come to his area of Costa Rica.

[JudyObscure]

47 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

They were living together, though, weren't they?  Either way, killing the woman your dude is sleeping with isn't the answer regardless of marital status.

Oh sure on the killing.  I was talking about long before that when Kaitlyn was making nasty phone calls to Mo.  I thought Kaitlyn should take it up with Colin, not Mo, who wasn't doing anything wrong in my eyes.

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

I thought Kaitlyn should take it up with Colin, not Mo, who wasn't doing anything wrong in my eyes.

Oh I agree. 

[Annber03]

5 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

We thought he was hilarious, too.  He's so sure he's deep and enlightened because he teaches yoga.  I loved, "People here are either unwanted or wanted."

LOL, yes. Exactly :D.

On the topic of yoga, my mom and I got a good laugh at one point when they were talking about "yoga conventions" or whatever they were, around the world. I was like, "...that's a thing?" It may well be, mind, I'm not up on my yoga, so I don't know. But it just sounded really funny the way they described it. 

[Angeltoes]

Every time I see young women in situations like this I just want to grab them and say,"Ladies, ladies, there are hundreds of thousands of men out there who are decent and loyal.  Dump this one, he's a cheating jerk and both of you deserve better."

[Tdoc72]

On 9/17/2022 at 5:45 PM, Annber03 said:

My mom and I also got a kick out of the surfer dude they interviewed at one point. Good lord, could he be ANY more of a surfer bro stereotype, or what? My mom was like,  "So I guess he just couldn't be bothered to put on a shirt before being interviewed for this show?" 

I thought he was a hoot, only because he was taking himself so seriously, when he sounded like a Californian surf dude.  I really wanted to know why his ex and him broke up. He clearly had some gray, so I was wondering if it was a Peter Pan situation and he wanted to surf all day and not grow up. 
~~~
I was thinking her defense would be self-defense (even though she went to start trouble) but it sounds like it’ll be Colin (or a dude he hired) did it.  

I also want her sister prosecuted for either accessory after the fact or interfering with an investigation if she knew about the passport and/or gave it to her. 

Edited September 19, 2022 by Tdoc72

[12catcrazy]

8 hours ago, Tdoc72 said:

I was thinking her defense would be self-defense (even though she went to start trouble) but it sounds like it’ll be Colin (or a dude he hired) did it.  

I also want her sister prosecuted for either accessory after the fact or interfering with an investigation if she knew about the passport and/or gave it to her. 

I'm sure that her family thinks that butter doesn't melt in her mouth and maybe she had already put it in their heads that "Colin did it".    But hey!  What says "I'm innocent!" like selling your car 12 hours after the police interviewed you, grabbing your yoga mat, and using your sister's passport to skip the country.  Not to mention the hair dye and assumed name.  

I absolutely hated Kaitlyn's lawyer - just want to smush his face in my cats' litter box.  But yeah, he seems really sure of himself and Kaitlyn is a very attractive young woman and the lawyer is going to make the jury hate the cheatin' boyfriend's guts by the end of the trial.  My guess is that he's going to say that Kaitlyn was being framed and we'll just have to see what reason he's going to use to convince the jury that Colin (or his hitman) did it.  

To me, I keep going back to Occum's Razor:  the guilty party seems pretty obvious to me but all you have to do is convince one person on that jury that Kaitlyn didn't do it and the lawyer earns his fee.