All Episodes Discussion

[Ohmo]

1 hour ago, ButterQueen said:

Not to mention, he had two trials.  Guilty on both.

My brother once served on a jury for a trial.  It was either murder or attempted murder,  Can't remember which one.  We didn't find out about it until it was over because he wasn't allowed to talk about it.

One of the procedural things he mentioned was paperwork.  Regardless of what the verdict is, there's paperwork to fill out, and he said it took his jury a bit of time.  Meaning if the Neulander jury was back in within six hours, their actual deliberations were even shorter than that.  They must have been fairly convinced of his guilt.

[LakeGal]

We were laughing at Andrea's clown face.  It was hard to take anything she was saying seriously.

[GiandujaPie]

There was just too much blood in the bedroom that Dr. Neulander couldn't explain away. I know it's not the defense's job, and the burden is on the prosecution to prove things, but the defense had to come up with a plausible explanation for why there was just so much blood in the bedroom when the victim allegedly slipped and fell in the shower. I can discount the blood and tissue found on the headboard due to it not being collected at the time of the incident, but the pictures of the bedroom taken at the time of the incident (and the daughter's 911 call) clearly showed that there was a lot of blood everywhere and then mysteriously, none on the bright white coffee cup. That, to me, would have been enough to convince me if I had been on the jury. And then coupled with other things like a pending divorce/separation and financial problems, seems to show a pretty strong motive. I think the adult kids are standing by their dad because the truth would just be too much to bear and so they are deep in denial. 

[iMonrey]

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In the Neulander case, the motive was the divorce.  They were in deep financial trouble.  He was losing most of his practice due to BC/BS pulling out due to “billing errors”.

But how does killing his wife fix that? Did he have a huge life insurance policy on her? I missed it if they said so.

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he should know that a bed is not where CPR should be performed. In fact, it's recommended to move someone from the bed to the floor to perform CPR if they're found on a bed.

But he wouldn't necessarily assume, immediately, his wife was dead and needed CPR if he found her crumpled on the shower floor. It was established she suffered from vertigo. I think it's reasonable he first thought she was just knocked out and cut her head so it was instinct to pick her up and move her. He might not have realized she wasn't breathing until he got her onto the bed.

(I'm mostly just playing devil's advocate, as my avatar suggests; my gut says he did it. I just didn't think the evidence was all that strong. I think the episode leaned too heavily on "so much blood!" and "friends are suspicious!")

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I’ll sit at a table for one, sipping a strawberry daiquiri, but Andrea is growing on me.  I love her wardrobe and especially her jewelry.

Oh, I do covet her jewelry sets. I'm often distracted by them. I wonder if they are her own or if the show provides them.

Edited May 25, 2022 by iMonrey

[ButterQueen]

I imagine the Neulander’s had life insurance.  If they divorced, his remaining assets would be even smaller as he would have to split them up.  He wanted everything himself.

[LuvMyShows]

On 5/21/2022 at 3:43 PM, Annber03 said:

But carrying her all the way into a whole other room, especially with all that blood dripping about, to the point where it's not just on the floor, but the walls and other various items (and that's presuming that the blood on the walls and such was the result of him carrying her, and not whatever else might've happened between them prior to that)? Yeah. No. Even if the injury is the result of an accidental fall, at that point, you have to know that you're just making the situation worse and hastening the chances of her dying before the paramedics arrive. If people who aren't doctors can realize the danger in moving someone's body that far after an injury, it makes it harder to buy the actual doctor's reasons for doing so. 

The other aspect to a fall is the danger of what may have been injured during this fall to a very hard surface, especially spine-related.  And he, as a doctor, would have known better.  He didn't strap her to one of those rescue boards to move her...he picked her up and carried her,, and she would have been flopping around with extreme movement in her spinal area.  I just don't buy that this experienced doctor would have made two huge glaring errors (this and doing CPR on a bed) for no reason....it's not like he had to move her because the bathroom was on fire.  And given how huge the house was, I'm guessing the bathroom was plenty big to give him all the room he would have needed to help her, so there was no actual reason to have moved her.

[DonnaMae]

On 5/22/2022 at 8:56 AM, iMonrey said:

I also don't think the fact that Neulander is a doctor suggests any nefarious action on his part. He's not a trauma surgeon, he's a plastic surgeon,

No he's not; he's an OB/GYN who delivered hundreds of babies in Syracuse.

[Irlandesa]

Of all the episodes to rerun this week, I don't think The Ranch was the best choice.

It takes you from elation to depression in one fell swoop and you actually care about the person who died because she did interviews.

It's such a bummer episode even though there was no murder.

[TVbitch]

This might be the one Dateline episode that most sticks in my mind. I was kind of hoping there would be an update to it on the rest of the family. Those kids seemed like such wonderful young people.

[GiandujaPie]

Just watched The Ranch and wow, what a story. I can't believe that the mother Jayne died so soon. Really sad. 

And what a gut punch it must have been to find out that the likely kidnapper was someone who you thought was a friend. What kind of monster could do that to another person, especially a friend, solely for money? And then be nearby to watch how it was tormenting the family? That's one sick MFer. Did they mention if the kidnapper's wife was ever implicated too?

I also watched the one with the kid who saw his dad kill his mom when he was 3 and then found her body as an adult. I'm glad he turned out ok, had a good foster/adoptive family and still had ties to his maternal family. That father was a grade A jerk. He didn't seem to care at all about abandoning his son. I couldn't believe his lawyers would go on tv and try to claim he was innocent! It's almost impossible to explain away the body of your missing wife buried at YOUR house. The letter was probably written by a friend of his who helped him bury the body. No way he did it alone or just with the help of a 3 year old. The only thing that did give me pause was the lack of blood. However, it doesn't seem like they did much collection of evidence as they treated it like a missing person case instead of a homicide. 

[BusyOctober]

The Jacket - another sad tragic ending for another young woman.  

Have all the other Dateline folks retired?  Why is Andrea “Clown-face Cosmetics”Canning the only one doing stories every week?  Her style of “reporting” and “interviewing” is so awful.  Her ridiculous “oh my gosh!!” reactions to the simplest comments are so annoying.  

[For Cereals]

2 hours ago, BusyOctober said:

The Jacket - another sad tragic ending for another young woman.

The dad did it!  Really diabolical with the evidence planting and trying to frame her ex.

[TVbitch]

What a piece of shit. He couldn't even be bothered to pull her pants back up before dumping her body. It's odd that they mostly interviewed men for this story. The first step dad, ex boyfriend, heavyset male friend, murderer dad.  

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, For Cereals said:

The dad did it!  Really diabolical with the evidence planting and trying to frame her ex.

I think about that ex and how lucky he is that the cops didn't just blindly accept the jacket.  I think we've seen enough of these to know that sometimes that's all it takes for some of these departments. 

And how lucky they were that the friend found two things which made the cops suspicious enough to interview him.  I imagine if it went forward, that the dad told him to look might have eventually came out but still...

And how dumb was he to have his garmin on. 

1 hour ago, TVbitch said:

It's odd that they mostly interviewed men for this story. The first step dad, ex boyfriend, heavyset male friend, murderer dad.

I would imagine it's because these were the guys willing to be interviewed.  It would have been a two hour episode if they managed to get some female friends and the mother.  I understand why the mother didn't want to be interviewed, though.  Either she's grieving that a man she chose killed her daughter or she's in denial.

[thejuicer]

9 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I understand why the mother didn't want to be interviewed, though.  Either she's grieving that a man she chose killed her daughter or she's in denial.

Boy I hope it's the former otherwise she'd be the stupidest person alive. 

That's what struck me as well - where were her mom and sisters?  Maybe it's just too painful to talk about, poor AJ. The note she left for her mom was so sad - how did the monster stepdad coerce her to write it? The last moments of her life must have been terrifying.

I kind of knew from the moment we saw the murderous stepdad speak that he did it. He is a big fat liar and right where he belongs. 

[Annber03]

12 hours ago, For Cereals said:

The dad did it!  Really diabolical with the evidence planting and trying to frame her ex.

Not just her ex, but also possibly that guy that he asked to go into the home and "find" the jacket, too! "I don't want to tell the police what I found in Cory's home, because I don't want to risk getting arrested for breaking and entering, but could you please put yourself on the line to go in there and 'discover' the jacket? Thanks!" Suppose the police had assumed the guy who found the jacket was the criminal and arrested him instead? I'm amazed he even agreed to do such a thing for Wesley in the first place, but I guess if he believed Wesley was just a desperate father wanting answers... 

The reveal of how AJ died was the most disturbing part to me, alongside the mention of her pants being pulled down. Her father's got a history with drugs, and she dies of a heroin overdose. I mean...that's just...wow. That's sick.

10 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I think about that ex and how lucky he is that the cops didn't just blindly accept the jacket.  I think we've seen enough of these to know that sometimes that's all it takes for some of these departments. 

And how lucky they were that the friend found two things which made the cops suspicious enough to interview him.  I imagine if it went forward, that the dad told him to look might have eventually came out but still...

And how dumb was he to have his garmin on. 

"I can't explain why it was there, but I know I definitely wasn't there."

So...who else would've put the GPS there, then, dude? I also loved him claiming he was at that store meeting up with AJ the day she went missing, only for the security footage to show that, nope, he very much wasn't and no such meeting ever happened. 

And then the fact that she died from the very drug that her father had in his possession, and he broke into Cory's home, and the look into his past revealed that oh, hey, he's had experience breaking and entering before! He really did make the investigators' job almost TOO easy. He showed his hand with the constant tips - yes, as the investigator said, parents certainly do try and do their own investigating and follow up on tips and whatnot, and rightly so - I certainly get parents wanting to take matters into their own hands and feeling frustrated at the progress, or lack thereof, in these situations. But even then, yeah, there's still far better ways to handle that than how Wesley did. 

His response to Andrea pointing out that people were calling him a monster was pretty damn subdued, too. "People have opinions." If I were being accused of killing my child (and possibly doing more to her besides), and people were calling me a monster, and I didn't commit the crime, I'd have a much stronger reaction to those kinds of accusations, I'd think. 

On that note, I loved Cory not holding back with his feelings on Wesley. "Fuck you, dude." This is an example of why shows shouldn't bleep curse words - I mean, we're watching a story about a young woman being murdered, and her stepdad's the main suspect in her death. Do the censors really think hearing someone say, "fuck", in a righteously angry tone, no less, will be any more offensive or upsetting? 

Rather eerie that both this show and "20/20" covered similar kinds of stories involving murdered children last night. Both equally horrifying and disturbing. 

[Ohmo]

There must have been an interesting dynamic going on with AJ and males.  By all accounts, her first step-father loved her.  I know he couldn't legally have custody of her, but I wonder why he didn't try to maintain an "unofficial" relationship with her.

I think her ,mother bears some responsibility here.  Her relationship with AJ's first stepfather ended badly.  I know we only have his word for it, but he seemed to genuinely love AJ.  Yet, her friends said she was looking for a father figure.  It sounds like her mother's relationship with her first stepfather became so toxic that it caused AJ to no longer trust him.  Then, Mom brought Wesley into the equation and AJ somehow felt she needed a "permanent" father figure.

That's my bet about why we didn't hear from Mom---because she had a hand in setting events in motion.  Wesley is responsible for the act of killing AJ.  Mom is responsible for Wesley being in AJ's life.  I bet she wasn't thrilled about her parenting choices being put under public scrutiny, especially since Wesley had a criminal record  before AJ's death.

Edited June 5, 2022 by Ohmo

[The Closer]

That was really good police work. It would have been so easy to have just stopped with either the ex-boyfriend or with the friend who found the jacket, but they kept on going until they got the right person. 

Unpopular opinion, but I like Andrea. I don't care how she does her makeup and I find her good at asking point blank questions to get the emotions out of people. The "fuck you, dude" is a good example of that. I know most people seem bothered by her, though.

[ButterQueen]

Wow, what a sad story.  I put ALL the blame on the murderer.  The mother had nothing to do with her daughter’s murder.  She is a victim too.

[GiandujaPie]

The Jacket episode was truly disturbing. The stepafather who did it had no discernible motive other than being a sicko pervert. However it is strange that no one ever mentioned that he had acted creepy towards AJ prior to this. You'd think there would have been some indication that he had these feelings about her. 

I also watched The Box repeat over the weekend. I had never seen it before and it was pretty diabolical too. I loved how Anne's defense attorney was just like "Meh...no explanation"... for so much of the evidence against her, including her fingerprints on the envelopes and letters and the internet searches (anybody could have used her computer LOL)...I wish they had shown Keith asking him about the hang up phone calls that came from the pay phone outside of her office. Just a complete coincidence? LOL 

That was pretty interesting how they described how Anne was able to get those letters postmarked from Arkansas though. I had no idea you could do that. Now I know how to fake a postmark if I ever need to. LOL

[iMonrey]

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This is an example of why shows shouldn't bleep curse words - I mean, we're watching a story about a young woman being murdered, and her stepdad's the main suspect in her death. Do the censors really think hearing someone say, "fuck", in a righteously angry tone, no less, will be any more offensive or upsetting? 

Amen!

I'm glad they didn't stretch The Jacket out into 2 hours, it would have been easy for them to spend too much time on red herrings like Cory and the big bruiser with the tattoos. 

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Unpopular opinion, but I like Andrea. I don't care how she does her makeup and I find her good at asking point blank questions to get the emotions out of people. The "fuck you, dude" is a good example of that. I know most people seem bothered by her, though.

I don't hate her (and I covet her jewelry). But she does say really dumb things a lot.

[Cozytea]

I have watched many Dateline episodes and I'm almost never shocked by the killer or the motives. I'm not  saying I don't find them disgusting and they definitely give me nightmares at times. As disgusted as I was by the revelation that her father killed and sexually assaulted her, my mouth dropped when they revealed she died from a heroin overdose. Wow! 

I did assume he did it as they kept saying that he was over the top and inserting himself onto the case. However the sexual assault and drug overdose floored me. I had at first thought maybe they argued and fought about his addiction.  Especially after he explained that she was so disappointed in him. Unbelievable,  what a monster.

I actually don't blame the mom for not being on the show, the guilt she probably puts on herself is more than likely unbearable.  

Someone up thread asked why the first stepdad wasn't around. I thought i heard him say he felt he was being pushed out of his daughter's and AJ's life. Im assuming the killer was the one pushing. Very sad.

[12catcrazy]

"The Jacket" was a really heartbreaking story.  AJ was such a beautiful girl with a future, only to have her life snuffed out by that scumbag lying "father".   I just kept shaking my head in amazement at him still proclaiming that he didn't do it.    Yeah, your GPS just happens to show you traveling to some out of the way derelict house and the poor girl's body was dumped there.   Nope, but he didn't do it.   What a sociopathic bastard.  

And it really makes one want to know the story of how AJ's mother met and wound up marrying this guy.   If I recall the story correctly, AJ didn't even know who her real father was  (one has to wonder about the story behind THAT), then her mother married the one guy, who is the father of the other two children.  Then Mom and Step Dad had an acrimonious divorce and Mom wound up married to this guy who had a past criminal history.     You'd think as a woman who has three young daughters, she would have been careful about  who she brought home, but either she didn't do a deep dive into this guy or he did such a great job covering his tracks/being a bullshit artist that she had no clue who she had married.    

Was there any local news coverage of the crime where they did any kind of investigation of the family?    And I'm guessing that the scumbag dosed AJ with heroin to subdue her enough to sexually assault her.   Makes you wish they'd bring back The Chair.   

[Kiss my mutt]

Another Andrea fan here. I think she’s good at getting people to let their guards down because she looks like a Sunday school teacher and but she asks very pointed questions and then keeps going. I think it’s also easy for families of the victims to open up and feel comfortable talking because she comes across very empathic and kind. You can see she feels pain for them in her eyes. 

[Annber03]

3 hours ago, 12catcrazy said:

I just kept shaking my head in amazement at him still proclaiming that he didn't do it.    Yeah, your GPS just happens to show you traveling to some out of the way derelict house and the poor girl's body was dumped there.   Nope, but he didn't do it. 

That's the thing that gets me about him claiming that he wasn't responsible for his GPS winding up there. Okay, so let's say he didn't do it. Then that means either some random stranger or somebody he knows took his vehicle and kidnapped his daughter, drove out to that abandoned house, and killed her and dumped her there. 

One would logically think, as a parent, he'd be freaking the fuck out about that, and demanding to know who the hell took his vehicle to get to his daughter, and who took her out there and disposed of her in such a horrific manner. If he's so sure Cory did it, as he claimed, one would think he'd be demanding they check the vehicle for fingerprints, to see if Cory's prints, or anything else connected to him, were left there. 

But I got no indication of that kind of reaction from him while he was insisting that he wasn't responsible for his GPS being out there. This from a guy who made such a big to do early on in the investigation of how determined he was to find the killer and how quick he was to get all these tips and everything. Very odd, that. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

But I got no indication of that kind of reaction from him while he was insisting that he wasn't responsible for his GPS being out there. This from a guy who made such a big to do early on in the investigation of how determined he was to find the killer and how quick he was to get all these tips and everything. Very odd, that. 

It's probably not so odd when you consider his attorney has no doubt advised him what to say (and what not to say) in an interview for Dateline. I'm sure he's waiting on an appeals process and all he has to do is deny his guilt. He's probably been advised not so offer speculation or alternative theories to his own guilt. That's why he just shakes his head and keeps saying "people have their opinions."

[amarante]

Last night's Dateline was I think Murder in Kitchen One.

What in the world was going on in the mind of the woman when she took the stand. Did she really think anyone would believe that she had no memory of the three hours of the morning of the murder with footage showing her SUV all over the neighborhood of the murder except for the critical 10 minutes when the guy was actually shot.

And why would an insurance agent have been stupid enough to call the police the day after the murder regarding getting a letter of "innocence" from the police.

She had insured the guy for $800,000 and he was about 62 when he was killed. It didn't seem like he was a high wage earner so in what universe was $800,000 not considered to be excessive. At that age most people don't even have insurance because it is presumed that you are going to die and so your spouse is generally not going to be relying on your income because there aren't that many years in which people realistically remain in the work force. And I would imagine the premiums are extremely high on life insurance for a man in his sixties who didn't look particularly fit. 

[Annber03]

16 minutes ago, amarante said:

Last night's Dateline was I think Murder in Kitchen One.

What in the world was going on in the mind of the woman when she took the stand. Did she really think anyone would believe that she had no memory of the three hours of the morning of the murder with footage showing her SUV all over the neighborhood of the murder except for the critical 10 minutes when the guy was actually shot.

And why would an insurance agent have been stupid enough to call the police the day after the murder regarding getting a letter of "innocence" from the police.

Seriously, the whole time I was watching this episode all I kept thinking was, "...so...did she just, like, totally forget that she has the right to remain silent, or...? 'Cause if so, she might want to keep that in mind." I just kept imagining what her defense attorney must've been thinking, watching her testifying on the stand. 

But yeah, that phone call to the insurance agent was AMAZING. Holy shit, that call was the definition of telling on oneself, with her going on about how she doesn't want anyone to think she secretly went down to the school and shot her husband and the discussion she had with her sister about how people are often killed for millions, and they don't have that kind of money*. Jesus. Those were indeed stupid questions she was asking, but no in the way she thought. 

*If she was as knowledgeable about murder as she claims, surely she would know that people have also murdered loved ones for much less money, or for non-financial reasons, period. 

And on that note...okay, so I like to write, too, and indeed, writing about murder does not automatically equate to you being a murderer. If all writers were what they wrote about, then Stephen King would be in jail many times over. And I can totally get being inspired to write a story based off of real life crimes, too, as, again, that's happened many times before for various writers. I know many mystery/crime novelists have joked about how some of the crazy stuff that happens in real life cases would be dismissed as ludicrous or too outlandish if it were included in a fictional tale. 

And I also know that many writers can attest to getting so caught up in thinking about/writing a story that they get distracted and lose track of time and kind of have a blank space in their mind as a result, because writing does weird things to one's brain that way :p. 

But in her case? I do not buy any of those typical writerly excuses or explanations at all. Her sudden inability to remember time the day of her husband's murder was clearly not the result of her being so caught up in a story idea that she got distracted. Her explanation for researching ghost guns seems flimsy at best (and connecting it to the Parkland school shooting rubbed me wrong for a variety of reasons). And the whole thing with her "How to Murder Your Husband" post reminded me a lot of the case of a firefighter who committed a string of arsons in California, and among his belongings, investigators found a manuscript he'd been writing...about a firefighter who committed a series of arson fires. And what's more, the fires mentioned in the story bore an eerie similarity to the actual fires he was being investigated for. 

Sure, that post was written years prior to the murder, so I can see where it'd be hard to properly connect it to the crime, and I do think it was wise for the judge to not include it in the trial, since that alone wouldn't be strong enough proof to show she was the murderer (though I did find it odd that while they didn't allow the post to be brought in as evidence, the prosecutors could still use it as reference for their questioning. That seemed a bit sneaky - either include it or don't, but don't try and have it both ways). But still, I do think, in this particular case, it does speak a bit to her mindset to some degree. I can't say for certain whether she was actively plotting to kill her husband all those years ago, but I can see where that post might speak to her trying to vent out some feelings and issues she had with him, issues that may have only grown deeper and festered over the following years, to the point where she finally just got fed up enough to actually kill him. If that makes sense. 

I also got a kick out of her talking about how she didn't look good in orange in that post, 'cause that reminded me of another case, also covered by Josh Mankiewicz, in which these two people involved in a murder kept texting each other afterward about whether or not they'd look good in orange jumpsuits. When the guy was finally caught and they showed him in his orange jumpsuit, Josh had this wonderfully snarky comment during his narration at that point: "And trust me, he looks about as good in orange as you'd expect." XD.

But yeah, the fact that nobody's rushing to her defense anymore, to the point where even those who initially defended her have now turned on her...I feel like that's telling, too. Weird case all around. 

[Guest]

36 minutes ago, amarante said:

Last night's Dateline was I think Murder in Kitchen One.

What in the world was going on in the mind of the woman when she took the stand. Did she really think anyone would believe that she had no memory of the three hours of the morning of the murder with footage showing her SUV all over the neighborhood of the murder except for the critical 10 minutes when the guy was actually shot.

In my profession I encounter so many older women who think they can charm people with their cutesy behavior.   She was attempting this while talking to the flabbergasted detective on the phone requesting a letter of innocence.  

I also think that she believes she’s the smartest person in the room and in her mind there was no question that the jury would believe her. She certainly failed with reading that room. 

I usually do not mind an hour episode but this was one I wished was two hours. I would like to know more about what the stepson feared from this woman.  I suspect he had some interesting stories.

I know the verdict was just announced so I’m guessing Dateline wanted to strike while the irons were hot.  I just wish they would have done a deeper dive on this case…it might have been worth a few more weeks of investigation.

 

[Annber03]

Just now, PsychoKlown said:

In my profession I encounter so many older women who think they can charm people with their cutesy behavior.   

That was made apparent when that woman told the story about how she was asking about her husband and his first wife, and how she was so certain that he and his first wife wouldn't be together much longer. 

I would've liked a two-hour dive into this story, too. I feel like there's a lot more about their marriage, and how things ended with his first wife, and all that, that would be very interesting to delve into further, and which might explain more deeply why and how things unfolded as they did. 

[amarante]

Be careful what you wish for because this might come back as a STRETCHED OUT two hour in the future.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, amarante said:

Be careful what you wish for because this might come back as a STRETCHED OUT two hour in the future.

Could be but I think there are more pieces of the puzzle than what they showed last night. 

[amarante]

23 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Sure, that post was written years prior to the murder, so I can see where it'd be hard to properly connect it to the crime, and I do think it was wise for the judge to not include it in the trial, since that alone wouldn't be strong enough proof to show she was the murderer (though I did find it odd that while they didn't allow the post to be brought in as evidence, the prosecutors could still use it as reference for their questioning. That seemed a bit sneaky - either include it or don't, but don't try and have it both ways). But still, I do think, in this particular case, it does speak a bit to her mindset to some degree. I can't say for certain whether she was actively plotting to kill her husband all those years ago, but I can see where that post might speak to her trying to vent out some feelings and issues she had with him, issues that may have only grown deeper and festered over the following years, to the point where she finally just got fed up enough to actually kill him. If that makes sense. 

I was thinking that the prosecutors were hoping that they might be able to introduce the blog by way of impeachment. If she had denied "thinking" those things there would have been grounds for introducing prior inconsistent statements as a way to impeach her testimony.

It is one of the ways an experienced litigator can get evidence in - or attempt to just like theoretically hearsay is inadmissible but only to prove the "truth" of the statement so you can attempt to get it in through different evidentiary justifications.

It is why no one charged with a crime should EVER take the stand because there are just too many traps.

I guess she felt compelled to take the stand because she thought she had an "affirmative" defense of memory loss but my god she was delusional if she thought anyone would believe it without having some kind of doctor or psychologist testify that she suffered from some condition that did impact her memory. 

I guess there are still people who still literally get away with murder but I think that would be if you are murdering perfect strangers. If you murder a spouse or parent or significant other the police will then investigate the hell out of you if they are competent in the slightest and there will be something with today's technology that screws you up. Here I suspect she didn't think there would be that many cameras; she didn't think her sale of the extra barrel on EBAY would be traced or the ghost gun. I am aware of all of the closed camera stuff - anyone who likes True Crime knows not to buy buy a shovel and large black trash bags at Walmart at 3 AM right after killing someone but the pervasiveness of how easy it is to track people still astounds me. I would imagine that the whole field of genetic DNA tracking will become simplified and DNA databases of non-criminals will expand as well as the ability to get touch DNA from unlikely sources. 

22 hours ago, PsychoKlown said:

Could be but I think there are more pieces of the puzzle than what they showed last night. 

Oh for sure this story could have done with a bit more on her backstory - I was being a bit snarky 

Edited June 12, 2022 by amarante

[UsernameFatigue]

8 hours ago, amarante said:

Be careful what you wish for because this might come back as a STRETCHED OUT two hour in the future.

As it was, I didn't find the one hour that interesting. It was obvious that the wife was the murderer, though it was amazing that someone who wrote crime novels for a living was so bad at planning one IRL. But I didn't find her, or her husband for that matter, compelling. 

[Tdoc72]

Found it hard to focus on this one because I kept wondering why the one cop had scotch tape on his forehead. 
 

But totally think she’s guilty & in the right place. 

[pdlinda]

9 hours ago, Tdoc72 said:

Found it hard to focus on this one because I kept wondering why the one cop had scotch tape on his forehead. 

I'm with you on that😄

Maybe someone can help us understand what the tape on the forehead was all about???

[patty1h]

1 hour ago, pdlinda said:

Maybe someone can help us understand what the tape on the forehead was all about???

I assumed that it was some kind of surgical tape/covering because no sane person would go onto network TV with some packing tape on his face.   Maybe he had some incision or scar that needed to be covered.

[Kiss my mutt]

I’m sure 20/20 and 48 hours will get their crack at the story before too long. 
i noticed she had had her face done.  Maybe that why she wanted the insurance money. Her selective amnesia and the hubris of thinking she’ll just take the stand and think people will believe it like a storyline from her crime stories was laughable. 
Just a general comment, but since I’ve been watching these shows I’m surprised at how little some people will kill for. One show had a woman hire someone to kill her husband for a $30,000 life insurance policy and the guy was willing to accept $500 to do it. You’d think you’d want more of a payoff for all that trouble and the probability you’re both going to jail. SMH!

[pdlinda]

30 minutes ago, patty1h said:

I assumed that it was some kind of surgical tape/covering because no sane person would go onto network TV with some packing tape on his face.   Maybe he had some incision or scar that needed to be covered.

I thought so too, but wouldn't he use a bit of "concealer" dabbed over the scar instead?  I've used that a # of times to "erase" a small scar on my face.

  The tape looked like it spread straight over the area with no gauze underneath.

4 minutes ago, Kiss my mutt said:

i noticed she had had her face done.

Was that it???  I saw a big difference in her appearance but thought it was due to her losing a lot of weight!

[Kiss my mutt]

26 minutes ago, pdlinda said:

I thought so too, but wouldn't he use a bit of "concealer" dabbed over the scar instead?  I've used that a # of times to "erase" a small scar on my face.

  The tape looked like it spread straight over the area with no gauze underneath.

Was that it???  I saw a big difference in her appearance but thought it was due to her losing a lot of weight!

I thought so just because her face was so tight which generally with that much weight loss and her age, you’d think, she’d have loose skin. She certainly seemed very impressed with herself!

[TVbitch]

I assumed the surgical tape was because he was healing from some minor surgery or procedure such as removing some skin cancer or hitting his head and needing stitches. 

...oh yeah, the case: Bitch did it! Badly. For vague reasons. 

[pdlinda]

1 hour ago, Kiss my mutt said:

She certainly seemed very impressed with herself!

Agreed!  It's called DELUSION AND DENIAL!  😄

[Ohmo]

On 6/11/2022 at 3:46 PM, amarante said:

And why would an insurance agent have been stupid enough to call the police the day after the murder regarding getting a letter of "innocence" from the police.

She had insured the guy for $800,000 and he was about 62 when he was killed. It didn't seem like he was a high wage earner so in what universe was $800,000 not considered to be excessive.

Stupid, but serious question: I believe she did it, but legit, what's the protocol for paying out life insurance when someone is considered a suspect?  Doesn't the insurance company need some sort of documentation other than "Yeah, the cops cleared me" ? What if the person is lying? If not a letter on official letterhead, then how is it done?

I actually thought $800,000 wasn't excessive at all given where they live.  Portland is expensive.

Edited June 12, 2022 by Ohmo

[Ohmo]

17 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

But I didn't find her, or her husband for that matter, compelling. 

I did because those who liked Dan liked him, but they were upfront that he wasn't for everyone.  They were loyal to him (the former Dateline employee and the chef who worked at the assisted living facility).  You could tell they wanted this to be solved, but I liked that Dan wasn't another "Oh he was amazing.  He would do anything for anybody.  He was the life of the party when he came into the room" type that Dateline seems to overflow with.  Dan was a complex person with a few friends that cared for him.  I'm sorry for their loss.

[The Closer]

As someone who hasn't loved when Dateline has made an innocent person a suspect for 50 minutes in order to tell a compelling story, I'm glad they kept the SODDI defense (lmao) to a vague person and focused on the trail the wife left behind. I love a good mystery, but sometimes there isn't one and, focusing on the police work done to uncover the clues in order to build a case, the most compelling aspect of the story.

[Whimsy]

On 6/6/2022 at 6:55 PM, Annber03 said:

That's the thing that gets me about him claiming that he wasn't responsible for his GPS winding up there. Okay, so let's say he didn't do it. Then that means either some random stranger or somebody he knows took his vehicle and kidnapped his daughter, drove out to that abandoned house, and killed her and dumped her there. 

One would logically think, as a parent, he'd be freaking the fuck out about that, and demanding to know who the hell took his vehicle to get to his daughter, and who took her out there and disposed of her in such a horrific manner. If he's so sure Cory did it, as he claimed, one would think he'd be demanding they check the vehicle for fingerprints, to see if Cory's prints, or anything else connected to him, were left there. 

But I got no indication of that kind of reaction from him while he was insisting that he wasn't responsible for his GPS being out there. This from a guy who made such a big to do early on in the investigation of how determined he was to find the killer and how quick he was to get all these tips and everything. Very odd, that. 

Sorry.  Going back an episode.  It looked to me, and the way they kept referring to the GPS, that it was one of the handheld/portable devices.  I mean, the step-father definitely did it, but he's not saying someone took his whole car.  Just the device.  Regardless, he's still a lying liar who lies.

About the chef murder- I absolutely LOVE watching the episodes where the perpetrator are convinced they are charming and brilliant so no one would ever suspect they actually did it.  Only to find out they are not nearly as charming as they thought and they are as dumb as a box of rocks.  I hate that this woman killed someone, obviously, but I am SO GLAD she was quickly found out and brought to justice.

[JudyObscure]

I, too,  was fascinated by the string tape on the detective's forward, so I noticed in a quick later scene, as he bent over the other guy, the tape was gone and he had a new looking surgical ridge all the way across the top of his forehead.  I expect he had done what a lot of tall men do and misjudged the height of a doorway or garage door.  Either that or zombies were planning to lift off the top and eat his brains. 

Josh should have known we'd be interested and asked for us!

Now this delusional, trash-writer  really disgusted me.  Just the fact that she met Dan and immediately told her friend she was going to get him and didn't care a bit that he was already married.  How does someone  so unattractive become so self confident? She clearly thought she could talk the jury into believing writers drive around through traffic completely lost in their book plots.  If so we've found something worse than cell-phones for distracted driving.

[amarante]

22 hours ago, Ohmo said:

Stupid, but serious question: I believe she did it, but legit, what's the protocol for paying out life insurance when someone is considered a suspect?  Doesn't the insurance company need some sort of documentation other than "Yeah, the cops cleared me" ? What if the person is lying? If not a letter on official letterhead, then how is it done?

I actually thought $800,000 wasn't excessive at all given where they live.  Portland is expensive.

I am not an expert in insurance law but insurance companies can delay payment until a person is cleared in an investigation which I guess is what the woman was attempting to get but generally this would not happen the day after the murder. And I think asking about insurance a day after someone is murdered is not the normal reaction of a genuinely grieving person.

Insurance companies can get in trouble if they don’t pay out and a claim is made of bad faith by a beneficiary. I would imagine in real life an insurance company would pay out a relatively small amount like $40,000 because it is easier than facing a  potential lawsuit. 

There is something called an interpleader in which a third party like an insurance company hands over the money to a court when there are potentially competing beneficiaries. They essentially say we owe the money to someone but we don’t know who and don’t want to be on the hook if we pay to the wrong person. 

Edited June 13, 2022 by amarante

[iMonrey]

Quote

 If you murder a spouse or parent or significant other the police will then investigate the hell out of you if they are competent in the slightest

Or even if they aren't!

This case has been the butt of every late-night talk show host joke for the past month. While she is clearly guilty, I related to her when she said losing her husband was like losing an arm. My best friend died of cancer and at the time that is exactly what I thought and what I felt: it was like losing an arm. Like this huge part of you is gone, and you realize you're just expected to go on with your life and learn to live without it. I've never heard anyone else describe the loss of of loved one that way before, I thought I was the only one.

[DonnaMae]

She is being sentenced to life in prison, possibility of parole in 25 years, but she won't live that long.