All Episodes Discussion

[Ohmo]

On 6/3/2017 at 0:23 PM, tobeannounced said:

Who puts up with that nonsense?

 

20 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

I didn't have a lot of sympathy for the girlfriend. Five years with a married man?

Yeah. I had issues with that, too.  While Betsy did seem genuinely sorry, five years is a very long time.  She also knew that Greg was married to Rachel.  At some point, one would think that it would register with Betsy that she was being fed a line, no matter how head-over-heels in love she was.

i also liked her neighbor/friend, the police chief, calling the cops in Maine.  Way to go with that!

ETA: Minor detail, but can someone explain this to me?  How did Greg supposedly "upgrade" Betsy to first-class when they were already on the airplane?  How did he pay for the ticket, or did he just smooze the flight attendant into somehow letting Betsy sit with him?  I didn't get how that whole thing could have actually happened.

Edited June 5, 2017 by Ohmo

[cooksdelight]

Upgrades are handled in a variety of ways. Usually once you're on the plane, if there are empty seats in first class, and you have a high enough status (gold, platinum, etc), they'll upgrade you at no charge. If he bought the tickets, it's possible she's linked to his account and it could happen that way.

[tobeannounced]

I think that's actually how they met, cooksdelight, when they were on the plane and he upgraded her to come sit by him.

Also, does anyone remember what his sentence was?

[cooksdelight]

That makes sense, as I've done the same thing for friends flying with me who were in coach.

[teebax]

Just now, cooksdelight said:

That makes sense, as I've done the same thing for friends flying with me who were in coach.

May I just say that I'd be totally creeped out by someone upgrading me so I can sit next to them on a plane. It's one thing if it's a friend or a boss or something. But some rando doing that would totally creep me out!

[cooksdelight]

Yeah, I've never done it for a stranger. A guy sitting beside me in first class once moved to coach so my friend, an Iraqi veteran who was heading to Afghanistan soon, could sit with me. 

[RedheadZombie]

On May 22, 2017 at 11:55 AM, walnutqueen said:

 

^^^ Yes!

Well, that frees up a slot on my "Kill If I'm Dying" list now, doesn't it?

How do y'all feel about going after animal abusers? (lookin' at you, @hoosiermom, my partner in thought crimes!)  ;-)

Can I join the band?  Animal abusers need to be roasted alive. 

[walnutqueen]

1 hour ago, RedheadZombie said:

Can I join the band?  Animal abusers need to be roasted alive. 

Welcome to the posse, RhZ !

[JudyObscure]

9 hours ago, teebax said:

May I just say that I'd be totally creeped out by someone upgrading me so I can sit next to them on a plane.

I know, right? I think I'd prefer the inconveniences of coach  over sitting next to some guy who thinks I'm obligated to listen to him brag about himself for the next five hours straight.  It's a variation on the man in the bar who has the waiter send you a drink and then come sidling up with a creepy grin on his face, at least there you're not as trapped.  Speaking of which,  Greg had a very ugly grin, thankfully his handsome son looks like his mother.

[Ina123]

12 hours ago, teebax said:

May I just say that I'd be totally creeped out by someone upgrading me so I can sit next to them on a plane. It's one thing if it's a friend or a boss or something. But some rando doing that would totally creep me out!

That's why I found it creepy too. My understanding was that he had just eyeballed her and decided he wanted to meet her so he upgraded her with a seat beside him in 1st class. First class or not, I'm not going to do it. Just creepy.

I also wondered about the others who were shot. Barely a mention and were they even interviewed? I can't remember. Maybe they declined.

Edited June 5, 2017 by Ina123

[Hank3]

13 hours ago, tobeannounced said:

Also, does anyone remember what his sentence was?

IIRC, it was life in prison.

[saber5055]

Thanks for that reminder on how Betsy and Greg met, his upgrading her to first class on some flight. Talk about "Strangers on a Train" ... I mean, "Plane." Not sure how I would react if I were Betsy, it would all depend on the situation and how easily I continue to be sucked in by smooth-talking (read: lying) men. If we could all see into the future, life would be so much easier.

[saber5055]

I gave this airplane thing more thought and came up with this scenario: Those two were sitting waiting to board and struck up a conversation. That's pretty typical, someone sitting next to you asks where you are going, what work do you do, blah, blah, to pass the time. That's happened to me many times when I traveled for business. (Not the upgrade, the conversation with other passengers.) They discovered they had many things in common (well, other than a SPOUSE!) so he paid for Betsy to sit next to him in first so they could continue their convo. Betsy was all aflutter having met the man of her dreams in the United (or Southwest or Alaska air) waiting lounge. So looking at it this way, the upgrade isn't creepy IMO. It would be if he just spotted her in line and never spoke to her first, though. Now, THAT'S creepy.

[mythoughtis]

I think it's creepy either way.  Wonder if he made a habit of this? Also, warrior princess Betsy shouldn't have just believed him when he said he was separated for years. Has she never heard of this thing called the internet? Didn't she wonder why she never met the rest of his family if she was the love of his life?

i also wondered about the reality of his wife's dementia. The dementia that he told his girlfriend about 5 years earlier, but told the cops was just diagnosed( that was supposedly why the wife was visiting those friends that night). 

I think the wife has some cognitive difficulties now- she seemed a little  childlike, but Andrea stated at the outset she was still recovering 2 years later. At the end, they said she lives with her son and his family. 

Edited June 6, 2017 by mythoughtis

[ButterQueen]

When did The Intruder episode air?  I missed it.

Nevermind, I found it.

Edited June 6, 2017 by ButterQueen

[ButterQueen]

On 6/5/2017 at 10:18 AM, Ina123 said:

That's why I found it creepy too. My understanding was that he had just eyeballed her and decided he wanted to meet her so he upgraded her with a seat beside him in 1st class. First class or not, I'm not going to do it. Just creepy.

I also wondered about the others who were shot. Barely a mention and were they even interviewed? I can't remember. Maybe they declined.

I agree.  How many blows to the head has Princess Warrior Betsy taken to the head.  For some reason, I don't find her story all that sincere.  She just comes off looking too good in it.  Makes my hinky meter go off.

[Ohmo]

On 6/5/2017 at 11:03 PM, mythoughtis said:

I think the wife has some cognitive difficulties now- she seemed a little  childlike, but Andrea stated at the outset she was still recovering 2 years later. At the end, they said she lives with her son and his family. 

Yeah, but I'd attribute that more to the fact that Greg shot her in the head instead of attributing this to dementia.  Just because the bullet is in her head and didn't kill her doesn't mean that it didn't cause any damage along the way to where it now sits.  She probably has a traumatic brain injury.

[vavavoom]

On 6/3/2017 at 2:02 AM, biakbiak said:

Betsy, the mistress, looked like a less attractive Chris Everett.

That was a really strong resemblance!

On 6/4/2017 at 4:42 PM, ChristmasJones said:

Where I fault Warrior Princess is in her decision to date a man who she knew was not legally divorced. By choosing to invest five years with a man who was not legally single, she was setting herself up for future problems. A man who is still entangled with another woman, regardless of his stated reasons for such entanglement (in this case- claiming his wife had health problems) is not a wise choice if you are looking for a serious relationship. For a fling, sure, but not when you are investing your heart and seeking a future commitment with said man.

Sometimes people don't think about these sorts of details, though, until its causing THEM a problem.

I also wish Dateline had clarified if he was actually working during all those years he was telling both women he was on missions.

I can maybe understand staying with a guy for a year while until he's divorced, but 5 years is a long damn time. Warrior Princess needed to buy a clue. Maybe her divorce messed her up, and she was just happy to be in a relationship. Otherwise, I can't understand it.

Greg was working as a military contractor (probably a Blackwater/XE type) which is why he was able to lie about going out of town.

[teebax]

14 hours ago, Ohmo said:

Yeah, but I'd attribute that more to the fact that Greg shot her in the head instead of attributing this to dementia.  Just because the bullet is in her head and didn't kill her doesn't mean that it didn't cause any damage along the way to where it now sits.  She probably has a traumatic brain injury.

Yep. Gabby Giffords was my congresswoman when she was shot in Tucson. She used to be eloquent,  and now she sounds like a child. Breaks my heart. 

[azshadowwalker]

3 hours ago, teebax said:

Yep. Gabby Giffords was my congresswoman when she was shot in Tucson. She used to be eloquent,  and now she sounds like a child. Breaks my heart. 

That was a horrible day for our city, and the repercussions will be lived by Giffords every day of her life. No doubt the same is true of the wife.

[biakbiak]

Equality! Now gays and lesbians can also be the number one suspect when they murder their spouse.  I would have to read the statute but I don't know that I could have convicted her of first degree murder.

[JudyObscure]

I  don't think I could have convicted her either.  So much was made of her taking the three year-old to the neighbor's house before running downstairs, but I might have done the same thing.  My first instinct is usually to protect the children from trauma.

On the other hand if a person's spouse has been known to beat her up, it's no stretch of the imagination to think a fight might have escalated into murder.  That minister who was so sure she could never have done such a thing irritated me.

[tobeannounced]

This case involves one of my "pet peeves" about the law. It just doesn't seem fair to get to try a person over and over again. I feel like it gives the prosecution such an advantage because they can learn what didn't work and make changes in the next trial. Let's just keep going till we get that jury that will convict! The third times always seems to be the charm in these retrials.

[saber5055]

I missed the end. Did the wife get convicted on the third trial? What, cases can be retried w/o end until lawyers get the verdict they want? Was the paint ever explained? I didn't get that at all. Was it said where the little girl is? And how the wife could have killed her partner if she was gone with the daughter? I guess I didn't "get" this episode.

[CelticBlackCat]

Hung juries result in a mistrial.  It isn't a case of "the lawyers" trying a case over and over again until they get the verdict they want.  Once acquitted, a defendant cannot be charged and tried again with the same crime.  When there is a verdict, Guilty or Not Guilty, either the prosecution wins the case or the defense wins the case.  If the jury didn't deadlock, there would have been a verdict.

[saber5055]

Thanks CelticBlackCat. I knew that about hung juries and mistrials. (Since I watch Dateline, where it happens a lot. LOL!) I feel "more stupider" to have asked about the retrials. So thank you for your explanation and patience! I still wonder about the paint thing though. And what sentence did the wife get?

[A.Ham]

I believe it was life without parole. And her parents are raising the child, not the victim's parents, which I thought was interesting. 

[editorgrrl]

Quote

Was the paint ever explained? How could the wife have killed her partner if she was gone with the daughter? I guess I didn't "get" this episode.

Annamarie Cochrane Rintala was in rigor mortis, meaning Cara Rintala killed her before she took Brianna shopping. The debit card purchases and phone calls/texts were an attempt to construct an alibi. Spilling the paint (and crawling under the body) further muddled the timeline, but Cara was probably trying to contaminate the crime scene.

According to the local media, Cara hacked at the front door with a shovel, to stage a break-in.

Edited June 10, 2017 by editorgrrl
Added a rookie mistake no "Dateline" fan would ever commit.

[LunaMia]

9 hours ago, saber5055 said:

Thanks CelticBlackCat. I knew that about hung juries and mistrials. (Since I watch Dateline, where it happens a lot. LOL!) I feel "more stupider" to have asked about the retrials. So thank you for your explanation and patience! I still wonder about the paint thing though. And what sentence did the wife get?

The spilled paint was fresh, spilled within 30 minutes of when the 911 call  was placed. Which didn't match up to when they think she had been killed; hours earlier. 

Edited June 11, 2017 by LunaMia

[Lizzing]

I still don't really get the theory with the paint.  If Cara were trying to contaminate the scene and evidence, why wouldn't she have spilled the paint when the murder happened, rather than when she came back and "discovered" the body?  It makes no sense; spilling the paint when she found the body to cover up would look far more suspicious than spilling it at the time of the murder.  It was a strange theory of motivation, like charging small amounts on a debt card to create a digital alibi.  In the past 15 years, I rarely....like maybe twice a year...have any cash on me.  Many times I've used the card on under $2 purchases.  It just seemed a reach that they went for 1st degree murder, but I don't know what the statute looks like there.

The door busted with a shovel adds a new wrinkle.  I wonder why Dateline left that out.

[Tdoc72]

I thought the episodes' pacing was off. It was she's dead....and now we're at trial.  I wanted to know more about the McDonalds' trash can and the rags. And the other red herring perps.

I shouldn't have to google this much, Dateline!  Tell the complete story. I'll watch. I promise. 

[walnutqueen]

I agree - this episode was "off" (although Dateline is infamous for not telling the whole story, even when they have TWO effing hours to do it!).  I didn't get the whole paint theory - was the defense attorney correct in accusing the "expert" of making up the science of paint drying (and did he testify about it based on crime scene photos, only, since he wasn't present at the original scene)?

[LakeGal]

The paint expert needed a chair that didn't swivel.  He was moving back and forth and it was distracting.  He also had a very wrinkled suit.

I wish they had done a better job of explaining the timeline.  They had me mixed up on that. 

[JudyObscure]

They had me mixed up on which was Ann and which was Cara from the very beginning.  They would show pictures of both while talking about one and they looked just enough alike in some photos so that I didn't know which was the defendant and which was the deceased until almost the end.  That was probably my fault for not following closely enough, though.

The whole case seemed to depend on timelines. The coroner said Cara had been dead from several hours before Ann went on her shopping trip with the child, giving her time to kill Cara and then leave.  The paint expert said the paint was not dry so Ann must have poured it out to confuse the crime scene after she got home.  I wonder about all those paint drying tests the expert did.  Wouldn't it depend on how thick the paint was?  A spilled puddle of paint is going to take days longer to dry than a painted wall.

7 hours ago, Tdoc72 said:

 I wanted to know more about the McDonalds' trash can and the rags.

Some relative said the couple didn't want to pay for trash pick-up, so they had been dropping their trash in  dumpsters all around town.  First, that's against the law, and second they probably would have done it one bag at a time, not one or two dirty rags at a time.  Who would toss loose, dirty trash in her car?  So many things about these women, were odd but not discussed much.  Was Cara really having an affair with the "I'll give you a big kiss," co-worker?  What about the woman who Cara returned to for a few days (or months?)  Was she just being used to make Ann jealous?  I pity all the side characters caught up in Ann and Cara's drama.

It would have been the best ending ever if the jury had come back and said "On the count of aggravated homicide -- not guilty. On two counts of misuse of private trash receptacles -- guilty on both counts."

[cooksdelight]

I watched last night's rerun, thinking maybe I'd seen it before because the black lady looked familiar. I still didn't know who helped the woman kill her rival until her brother came forward. That detective had his hands full with suspects, that's for sure. At least she also got life in prison after trying to blame it all on her son. I felt bad for the other son, who appeared to still be on meth during the interview.

[saber5055]

I watched last night's ep too, even though I had seen it before. I didn't remember who was the killer, so the ep was "sort of" new to me (LOL!), which either says something about Dateline or my own memory retention. But I did remember that the woman being shot in the leg was fake. I just didn't remember it was the older son until the very end when it was revealed. I do remember being grossed out that the husband had remarried (how on earth did he find a GF much less someone to marry his cheating *ss?) and was living in the house where his wife had been freaking MURDERED. His new wife must be one of those women who send love letters to serial killers in prison.

[saber5055]

I still am not all up on the married-women murder episode. What motive did the one have to kill the other? Just p*ssed off? And the paint might be used to cover up the killer's DNA on the body, except they were married and, presumably, lovers, so DNA would be all over each of them just from a normal day. All I can think the paint means is, the dead woman wanted to paint the living room teal, the killer woman wanted green, so she killed her, then still stewing over it, dumped the teal paint on the body and said, "THERE'S your freaking teal paint, you b*tch, how do you like it NOW?" JMHO, of course. Oh, and Judy, I couldn't tell the two apart by their photos either.

[UsernameFatigue]

Regarding the Cara/Ann case, I don't think I would have had a problem convicting Cara based on her own actions and interviews with police. She said that Ann asked her to take the daughter out so that she could sleep as she had another overnight shift that evening. Cara said that she left the house at 3pm, but less than three hours later she is calling Ann? One message was so ridiculous - a sing songy voice leaving a message saying they are still driving. She called again a few minutes later. Why would you do that unless you are trying to set up an alibi and know the person you are calling is dead, so you are not going to wake them up? She did not arrive home for another full hour, but according to her own words was calling and texting Ann constantly though not reaching her (of course).

She also described a peaceful morning - Ann arriving home at 8:30, breakfast, playing with the daughter, lunch. But according to Ann's phone she spent the morning phoning and texting friends and family - some 50 something if I recall phone calls/texts. Which then stopped just before noon. Also she was going to meet her male friend at 8:25am so did she get home at 8:30? So much left out, as is normal for Dateline unfortunately.

As for motive, seems like jealousy and money problems are two quite possible ones. Ann asked her male friend to go to Best Buy at 6am, then meet her at 8:25. Looks like she wanted him to buy something for her? Seems like she had quite the shopping habit but not the income to support it. And she had fought with Cara the night before over a friend who was visiting her, which Cara called ridiculous. Given their domestic violence history and previous separation, it is not a stretch to think things got out of control and Ann was killed in the heat of the moment (or 4 minutes as the case might be, given that Ann also had lacerations to the head).

Seems like with the damaged door Cara went through a few scenarios of how to stage the scene. Falling down stairs? Knocking over the paint on the fall? Break in, but nothing taken? I am sure there was likely things left out as to how the jury came to their conclusion (there always is) but I have no problem with their 1st degree conviction based on their reasoning that Cara could have stopped strangling Ann anytime during those 4 or so minutes.

That said, I think I would have found Ann to be exhausting to say the least (not that she deserved to die of course). I can't believe she asked a married friend with children to co sign on three different credit cards? Who does that? And her ex girlfriend also co signed on a credit card. She has no problem having ongoing friendships with these two, but freaks out at Cara having a male friend over when she is working. Talk about a dysfunctional couple. I hope (and assume) that their daughter is in a much more stable home now.

Edited June 11, 2017 by UsernameFatigue

[teebax]

42 minutes ago, UsernameFatigue said:

Regarding the Cara/Ann case, I don't think I would have had a problem convicting Cara based on her own actions and interviews with police. She said that Ann asked her to take the daughter out so that she could sleep as she had another overnight shift that evening. Cara said that she left the house at 3pm, but less than three hours later she is calling Ann? One message was so ridiculous - a sing songy voice leaving a message saying they are still driving. She called again a few minutes later. Why would you do that unless you are trying to set up an alibi and know the person you are calling is dead, so you are not going to wake them up? She did not arrive home for another full hour, but according to her own words was calling and texting Ann constantly though not reaching her (of course).

She also described a peaceful morning - Ann arriving home at 8:30, breakfast, playing with the daughter, lunch. But according to Ann's phone she spent the morning phoning and texting friends and family - some 50 something if I recall phone calls/texts. Which then stopped just before noon. Also she was going to meet her male friend at 8:25am so did she get home at 8:30? So much left out, as is normal for Dateline unfortunately.

As for motive, seems like jealousy and money problems are two quite possible ones. Ann asked her male friend to go to Best Buy at 6am, then meet her at 8:25. Looks like she wanted him to buy something for her? Seems like she had quite the shopping habit but not the income to support it. And she had fought with Cara the night before over a friend who was visiting her, which Cara called ridiculous. Given their domestic violence history and previous separation, it is not a stretch to think things got out of control and Ann was killed in the heat of the moment (or 4 minutes as the case might be, given that Ann also had lacerations to the head).

Seems like with the damaged door Cara went through a few scenarios of how to stage the scene. Falling down stairs? Knocking over the paint on the fall? Break in, but nothing taken? I am sure there was likely things left out as to how the jury came to their conclusion (there always is) but I have no problem with their 1st degree conviction based on their reasoning that Cara could have stopped strangling Ann anytime during those 4 or so minutes.

That said, I think I would have found Ann to be exhausting to say the least (not that she deserved to die of course). I can't believe she asked a married friend with children to co sign on three different credit cards? Who does that? And her ex girlfriend also co signed on a credit card. She has no problem having ongoing friendships with these two, but freaks out at Cara having a male friend over when she is working. Talk about a dysfunctional couple. I hope (and assume) that their daughter is in a much more stable home now.

I agree with you and wouldn't have had a problem voting to convict on first degree murder. Whether or not the paint was wet, there were so many other things Cara did that pointed to her guilt. I also agree with you about Ann; I can't imagine being in a relationship with someone who has no qualms about accepting money and gifts from other people. She must have been wicked charming in order to get all those people to support her shopping addiction. 

I did like seeing a case involving a married gay couple. My people have truly arrived!

[UsernameFatigue]

12 minutes ago, teebax said:

I agree with you and wouldn't have had a problem voting to convict on first degree murder. Whether or not the paint was wet, there were so many other things Cara did that pointed to her guilt. I also agree with you about Ann; I can't imagine being in a relationship with someone who has no qualms about accepting money and gifts from other people. She must have been wicked charming in order to get all those people to support her shopping addiction. 

I did like seeing a case involving a married gay couple. My people have truly arrived!

Amazing that to Ann, Cara having a male friend over to visit while she is at work was disrespectful, but running up $7000 worth of debt on a credit card you have had a male friend co sign for isn't.(Who knows what the balance was on the other two cards). Not to mention the $10,000 she ran up on the ex girlfriend's card. Debt that would still affect Cara while Ann supposedly tries to pay it off. Makes me wonder how much debt they were in themselves. 

Another apparent lie of Cara's was saying they left the house at 3 for the mall but did not show up on security cameras there until 5. And really, Ann was the shopper, not Cara. So claiming that she spent 3 hours ( to almost 6) shopping for socks at the mall before going to eat, with a two year old in tow is laughable. 

One thing I did not understand was when they were separated, the judge said that if they continued to snipe at each other he would call in child protective services, implying their daughter would be taken away. (Which is what the prosecution also thought was the reason they stayed together). Can a judge really do that when their daughter was adopted? Just because they were sniping at one another? Would he say that to a couple with a biological child? I just thought that was odd. 

[mythoughtis]

Given that the daughter is staying with Cara's parents, who take her to the prison to see Cara weekly... I'm not sure she is in a good place..  

these two should have stayed split up.  Also, I have yet to figure out what married man thinks he can let his 'friend'( and that is what they referred to the relationship as), run up thousands of dollars on 3 credit cards he co-signs for. That ruins his And his wife's joint credit.  

I aldo noticed that the minute the verdict was read Cara began  babbling 'I'm sorry' over and over.  As if she could now admit she was guilty. 

Edited June 11, 2017 by mythoughtis

[UsernameFatigue]

1 hour ago, mythoughtis said:

Given that the daughter is staying with Cara's parents, who take her to the prison to see Cara weekly... I'm not sure she is in a good place..  

these two should have stayed split up.  Also, I have yet to figure out what married man thinks he can let his 'friend'( and that is what they referred to the relationship as), run up thousands of dollars on 3 credit cards he co-signs for. That ruins his And his wife's joint credit.  

I aldo noticed that the minute the verdict was read Cara began  babbling 'I'm sorry' over and over.  As if she could now admit she was guilty. 

Good point about Cara's parents. Someone upthread mentioned that it was interesting that they got custody of the child rather than Ann's parents. Maybe Ann's parents did not want/could not look after the child. Maybe with Cara still being the legal parent she had rights (ie visitation) that Ann's parents understandably would not want to abide by. 

Regarding the friend, I noticed that Josh I think it was referred to the "then married man" so looks like his wife divorced him. Maybe she had no idea about the oddly close relationship or the credit cards, but either way I think she is well rid of him. 

Edited to add - I don't think Cara was admitting she was guilty after the reading of the verdict. She was crying and saying "You are so wrong", and "My daughter". The judge or someone off camera told her that she had to stop talking/crying and that is when she said "I'm sorry" but seemed to be trying to explain that she was talking/crying because she was not guilty and worried about her daughter. At least that is what I got out of it. But I still think she was guilty as sin. 

Edited June 11, 2017 by UsernameFatigue

[editorgrrl]

4 hours ago, saber5055 said:

I still am not all up on the married-women murder episode. What motive did the one have to kill the other? Just p*ssed off?

Annamarie Cochrane was angry that Cara Rintala had been drinking beer with a male friend in their home while Ann was at work as an EMT. The couple had a long history of domestic violence (including 911 calls, restraining orders, and divorce proceedings), and each was afraid of losing their 2-year-old adopted daughter, Brianna.

This is a good article about the case: http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/article/2013/05/28/cara-rintala-murder-trial/

Cara and Brianna moved to Rhode Island near Cara's mother and stepfather after the March 2010 murder. Cara wasn't charged until October 2011. Awarding custody to Cara's mother was probably argued to be the least disruptive to Brianna.

What I don't understand is why a couple with $100,000 in credit card debt would take a cruise. 

[UsernameFatigue]

24 minutes ago, editorgrrl said:

Annamarie Cochrane was angry that Cara Rintala had been drinking beer with a male friend in their home while Ann was at work as an EMT. The couple had a long history of domestic violence (including 911 calls, restraining orders, and divorce proceedings), and each was afraid of losing their 2-year-old adopted daughter, Brianna.

This is a good article about the case: http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/article/2013/05/28/cara-rintala-murder-trial/

Cara and Brianna moved to Rhode Island near Cara's mother and stepfather after the March 2010 murder. Cara wasn't charged until October 2011. Awarding custody to Cara's mother was probably argued to be the least disruptive to Brianna.

What I don't understand is why a couple with $100,000 in credit card debt would take a cruise. 

You are right regarding Brianna being with Cara's parents - I forgot that it was several years and three trials before Cara was convicted, so yes Brianna would have been involved closely with Cara's parents for years before her mother actually was convicted.

Thank you for posting the article - it was much more informative than the Dateline hour. Wow, on top of their money problems Ann fraudulently obtained a credit card in Cara's name, and then ran up a $20,000 debt on it. Wow again.  Also the part about Cara having a laundry basket and bag in the back of her vehicle when she was at the fast food restaurant but by the time she arrived home both were gone was very interesting. And not covered on Dateline. They did reveal that Ann had texted the night before that she did not like their relationship, but forgot the part where Ann texted that she was going to leave Cara. Just a little detail. Also I found the part about the paint fascinating. It was a type of paint that went on light pink but turned white within an hour of application. The EMTs said the paint was pink when they arrived, meaning it had just been poured. The poor lighting in the basement did not show the pink in the crime scene pictures, but the EMTs did testify as to the colour. Another point not covered by Dateline. 

[Ohmo]

22 hours ago, Tdoc72 said:

I thought the episodes' pacing was off. It was she's dead....and now we're at trial.  I wanted to know more about the McDonalds' trash can and the rags. And the other red herring perps.

I think Cara did it, but I also wanted to know more about the McDonald's trash run.  I live in a community where we have to pay per bag for garbage, so sure, it's not uncommon to give someone else a bag of garbage to throw away if they live outside our area.  I noticed, however, that Dateline didn't say that Cara threw a bag of garbage away.  The show said that she threw rags away, which would have been a major red flag if I had been on the jury.  If you're going to throw garbage away and not have to pay for it, you're going to make it worth your while and throw an entire bag away.  I'd want to know if the cops found an entire bag of garbage in the dumpster.  If they just found the rags, that would be an indication of guilt to me.

Also, I think the choice of paint points toward Cara.   Paint is something that, if it's in someone's basement and is used for whatever purpose, the person who uses it probably knows that basement pretty well.  I mean, you don't know for sure that paint is going to be in someone else's basement.  It certainly might be, but there's no guarantee it will be.  Cara and Anna had a 2-year-old at the time, and Anna was found at the bottom of the stairs.  I find it less likely that someone else is going to kill Anna and just happen to find a can of paint in a handy spot right by the stairs.  I find it more likely that Cara knew she had paint in the basement and went and found it after she killed Anna.

ETA: What the prosecutor pointed out was another red flag.  I agree with him that if Anna wanted to sleep and told Cara to take Brianna out of the house, Cara would not under normal circumstances call Anna to just tell her they were getting food.  I agree with the prosecutor that she was just trying to set up an alibi.

Edited June 12, 2017 by Ohmo

[LunaMia]

Yeah, the paint thing was the most puzzling thing to me. Cara told the detective that she had turned Anna over from being face down, to face up. So does that mean she had most of the paint on her back? Because it looked like it was all over her front from the pictures. That would be a huge flag, but they never mentioned any of that.

Hopefully 48 hours covers the story, to get a juxtaposition to Dateline's story.

[Tdoc72]

19 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

.  The paint expert said the paint was not dry so Ann must have poured it out to confuse the crime scene after she got home.  I wonder about all those paint drying tests the expert did.  Wouldn't it depend on how thick the paint was?  A spilled puddle of paint is going to take days longer to dry than a painted wall.

I wondered about the basement temperature and/or humidity affecting the drying time. My basement is much cooler than the rest of the house and with a lower humidity year round.

12 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

.  Also, I have yet to figure out what married man thinks he can let his 'friend'( and that is what they referred to the relationship as), run up thousands of dollars on 3 credit cards he co-signs for. That ruins his And his wife's joint credit.  

 

This is the same guy that admitted at trial that he slept in Annemarie's sleeping bag for months after she died.  MONTHS! 

11 hours ago, editorgrrl said:

 

 

 

Edited June 12, 2017 by Tdoc72

[editorgrrl]

On 1/4/2016 at 0:30 PM, ari333 said:

Holy crap, you guys. "12 Minutes on Elm Street" is a must-see eppy. It is on demand and probably on youtube. Omg.… must-see. It is a case of two teens shot dead by a homeowner while breaking into the home. Many twists and turns.

You can still watch the January 11, 2015, episode at http://www.nbcnews.com/watch/dateline/12-minutes-on-elm-street-part-1-258017859997

Byron Smith shot teenage cousins Nicholas Brady and Haile Kifer on Thanksgiving Day 2012 in Little Falls, Minnesota. Investigation Discovery's Hear No Evil covered the same case on May 17 as "Whispers from the Dead." It focused more on the audio technician.

[ButterQueen]

On 6/10/2017 at 1:51 PM, editorgrrl said:

Annamarie Cochrane Rintala was in rigor mortis, meaning Cara Rintala killed her before she took Brianna shopping. The debit card purchases and phone calls/texts were an attempt to construct an alibi. Spilling the paint (and crawling under the body) further muddled the timeline, but Cara was probably trying to contaminate the crime scene.

According to the local media, Cara hacked at the front door with a shovel, to stage a break-in.

Yeah, I would have voted guilty.  Such a sloppy crime scene.  So glad killers mess up.  ??

[azshadowwalker]

5 hours ago, editorgrrl said:

You can still watch the January 11, 2015, episode at http://www.nbcnews.com/watch/dateline/12-minutes-on-elm-street-part-1-258017859997

Byron Smith shot teenage cousins Nicholas Brady and Haile Kifer on Thanksgiving Day 2012 in Little Falls, Minnesota. Investigation Discovery's Hear No Evil covered the same case on May 17 as "Whispers from the Dead." It focused more on the audio technician.

I watched the Hear No Evil episode. The way he shot Haile three different times in the head, from different angles and two of them while she was laying on the ground, was some sick shit. Then, standing over her and calling her a bitch. That girl was no threat to him. Glad he got first degree murder, especially for her death. 

Edited June 12, 2017 by azshadowwalker