S01.E08: The Orpheus Syndrome

[shantown]

Quote

A special effects artist unearths a past project to find closure from the guilt of a fatal on-set accident, but when old demons resurface, Charlie is left to unravel a new deadly plot.

Streaming on Peacock starting February 23

[TakomaSnark]

My favorite episode so far. Charlie running around with the horse suit on was gold.

[AnimeMania]

Luis Guzman as Raoul

Nick Nolte as Arthur
Cherry Jones as Laura
Tim Russ as Max
Pedro Hollywood as Young Raoul
Rowan Blanchard as Lily

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, TakomaSnark said:

My favorite episode so far. Charlie running around with the horse suit on was gold.

hahahahhahahahahha.

I thought the episode was great!  What a bloodbath, though.  I am so glad Luis Guzman survived, he is so awesome!

The attention to detail in those incredible props, Nick Nolte's performance!  Wow.

I don't know if it's my #1 though.

I'm excited for when this season is done and I watch all of them again, I am so curious what I will think from episode to episode.

[akg]

57 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

What a bloodbath, though.  I am so glad Luis Guzman survived, he is so awesome!

Me too! I hope he finds a new job soon.

The deaths in this one were awful but I was also crushed by Laura burning all of Arthur's film. He'd worked so hard on it and now it's just gone with no one ever really knowing it existed.

[Ms Blue Jay]

49 minutes ago, akg said:

Me too! I hope he finds a new job soon.

The deaths in this one were awful but I was also crushed by Laura burning all of Arthur's film. He'd worked so hard on it and now it's just gone with no one ever really knowing it existed.

I don't remember seeing anything being burned, maybe I wasn't paying attention.  I assumed she just wanted it in her possession so that nobody else could see it?

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, akg said:

I was also crushed by Laura burning all of Arthur's film. He'd worked so hard on it and now it's just gone with no one ever really knowing it existed.

Arthur had digitized a lot of the film, and as far as we saw, only the incriminating reel was deleted.
I guess because it would be less obvious?
 

Horror is not my thing, but at least I did love Charlie in the horse costume.
 

Interesting casting tidbit——in case you missed it,
Sean Ono Lennon as guest # 1:

 

So the eye twitch is new. I wonder if they're going to continue using that instead of having her explain stuff? 
It's a little gimmicky. 
I think the writers finding clever new ways for her to explain her talent would be better.

 

Edited February 23, 2023 by shapeshifter

[Chaos Theory]

Trippy ending.

 

althought my favorite episode is still the Judith Light episode if you said this show gets better with each episode I wouldn’t disagree with you.

Horror is my favorite genre.   It is one of the few genres that is equally good when it is bad.  If that makes any sense.  
 

One of my favorite things about this show is how Charlie starts and episode working at “this place” and then ends up spending most the episode working “hey you need a job”.

I loved the concept that working at a barbershop would drive Charlie nuts and give her a tick because of the sheer amount of lies and exaggerations that goes on so when she delivers a bag of hair to a creepy guy who tells her the truth she prefers him.  

I love Cherry Jones.  She plays a really good villain.

[akg]

2 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I don't remember seeing anything being burned, maybe I wasn't paying attention.  I assumed she just wanted it in her possession so that nobody else could see it?

Laura had a burn party (she was very wicked witch-like) after she'd raided the barn.

20 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

A lot of it was digitized.

I don't think Arthur's recent stuff was digitized. That project seemed to be for their older work which is how the husband came across the murder.

21 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

So the eye twitch is new. I wonder if they're going to continue using that instead of having her explain stuff? 
It's a little gimmicky. 

I'm hoping the twitch was a lingering reaction to all of the lies at the barber shop and will be gone by next week. I can't decide if I liked having the signifier of exactly when Laura messed up and set off the cancer-sniffing dog or if they should have gone more subtle. It was definitely fun as a viewer to recognize that moment though.

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

Interesting casting tidbit——in case you missed it,
Sean Ono Lennon as guest # 1:

Kemp Muhl is a pretty famous model, too.  That's how I knew her as when she was modelling.

Quote

Muhl has been in a relationship with Sean Lennon since 2007 and performs with him in the musical duo The Ghost of a Saber Tooth Tiger.

 

 

49 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

althought my favorite episode is still the Judith Light episode if you said this show gets better with each episode I wouldn’t disagree with you.

Judith Light - 5/5

This episode 5/5

Ellen Barkin/Tim Meadows 4.5/5

Car Racing 4/5

That's how I rated them personally.  But they're all very high level.

Edited February 23, 2023 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ms Blue Jay]

52 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

I loved the concept that working at a barbershop would drive Charlie nuts and give her a tick because of the sheer amount of lies and exaggerations that goes on so when she delivers a bag of hair to a creepy guy who tells her the truth she prefers him.  

It would be funny for Charlie to try this in other workplaces like a law office or a used car dealership etc.

[Snazzy Daisy]

It’s a Phil Tippett’s appreciation hour.

The “loose horse in the premises” situation is f-king hilarious!

🤣🤣🤣

Edited February 24, 2023 by SnazzyDaisy

[paigow]

Where is LAM? Charlie was just in Georgia.. she drove all the way back to L.A.??? 

[ofmd]

Much better than the racing episode, even though horror is not my favorite genre, either. Still, well done.

And I love how often this show features older characters/ actors.

She killed Tuvok!!!

Btw, is that extreme eye twitching a new thing? I only remember her Bullshit reaction to lies, not the eye thing.

Edited February 24, 2023 by ofmd

[paigow]

If Laura ended up in prison with Ellen Barkin... Pensacola would have real ghosts...

[susannot]

Fantastic episode though I thought the resolution of the mystery was a bit rushed.  Loved the horse and the way Cherry Jones delivered the line "if she sets one hoof on the premises arrest her."  Very nice seeing photos of the young and handsome Nick Nolte at the exhibit.

[kwnyc]

Is Nick Nolte really having that kid of trouble with his voice and speech, or is it...ACTING?

[ItCouldBeWorse]

13 hours ago, akg said:

Laura had a burn party (she was very wicked witch-like) after she'd raided the barn.

She burned whatever loose film was gathered from Arthur's workshop. So, whatever he has filmed by himself over the years that wasn't on a reel. It wasn't clear to me if everything in the missing reel except for the incriminating part that he had stuck in the Medusa's hair was burned back at Laura's house when he threw it into her fire pit, or if she had pulled it out in good enough shape to watch it and that is how she knew there was some tape missing. Because if she wasn't able to watch it, she wouldn't have known that part was missing.

I get that no forensic testing would have been done on Max's crushed body, but Laura didn't know he was going to jump. What kind of toxin did she use on Max and Arthur that a coroner would not be able to find?

9 hours ago, ofmd said:

She killed Tuvok!!!

My first thought!

 

Edited February 24, 2023 by ItCouldBeWorse

[Ms Blue Jay]

26 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I get that no forensic testing would have been done in Max's crushed body, but Laura didn't know he was going to jump. What kind of toxin did she use on Max and Arthur that a coroner would not be able to find?

I was having similar thoughts.

Max would certainly have a family.  The first thing the family would want is an autopsy.  That's a very suspicious looking death no matter what.  

There were some things I couldn't fully grasp.  How did Laura keep the company going and supposedly "save" Max and Arthur after killing that actor?  What exactly was her motive?  Why was killing that actor a good idea?  The movie didn't even get released because Arthur was so devastated, right?  So what was Laura trying to accomplish? All of this confused me.

I would have understood the motive more if say, Max and Laura were together and Max was cheating with the actor or something, I don't know.

Also, as soon as Laura asked for the face bust, I knew it would be for a face ID.  I'm not exactly the world's greatest detective though because by then we already knew she was suspicious with her weird ass reaction after Max jumped.

Edited February 24, 2023 by Ms Blue Jay

[Dev F]

26 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

There were some things I couldn't fully grasp.  How did Laura keep the company going and supposedly "save" Max and Arthur after killing that actor?  What exactly was her motive?  Why was killing that actor a good idea?  The movie didn't even get released because Arthur was so devastated, right?  So what was Laura trying to accomplish? All of this confused me.

I think Laura was being honest when she told Arthur she didn't mean to kill anyone. She thought Lily was just pushing the button and ruining the take because she was jittery and unprofessional, and that if she couldn't trigger the light, she'd get through the scene and they could move on.

I think I assumed that they did finish Dragonfish, with most people assuming that Lily was to blame for her own death because she didn't push the button, but Arthur blaming himself for pushing her too hard and walking away once the movie was done. I guess I can't figure out how else the company would've kept going at all, if they sunk all their money into a film that had to be scrapped because it killed a woman. And they certainly wouldn't be commemorating it at their big gala forty years later, right?

[LaylaGirl]

Nick Nolte can still act. I thought he did great work in this. Loved the episode, even though with the high body count.

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I get that no forensic testing would have been done in Max's crushed body, but Laura didn't know he was going to jump. What kind of toxin did she use on Max and Arthur that a coroner would not be able to find?

I have just googled tea and toxins and autopsies so much that if a neighbor suddenly died of poisoning, I could probably be convicted from my search history, LOL. 
But I got nothing.  
Is it just a plot hole? Or is the toxin something that Laura would have been caught for using to poison Max if he hadn’t jumped? 
Even if Laura hadn’t intended for Lily to die all those years ago, maybe Laura’s secret guilt had led her to wanting to get caught? ——which is a common plot point in cop shows when they eventually catch a serial killer——but I don’t know if that ever happens IRL, and I’m not going to Google it.😉   
Maybe Laura was just lucky in murder——perhaps able to appear beyond suspicion——and would never have been caught without Charlie’s interference?

BTW: A Reddit poster said Natasha Lyonne also wrote (co-wrote?) and directed this episode.

[Haleth]

Yeah, there were some holes in this one, especially why there wasn't a more extensive investigation of Max's death.  It was great to have Cherry Jones, Nick Nolte, and Luis Guzman in the same episode.  The casting continues to be outstanding.

Hope the writers see that Charlie's tic isn't necessary.  Her lightbulb moments can be more subtle.

[paigow]

5 hours ago, Dev F said:

I guess I can't figure out how else the company would've kept going at all, if they sunk all their money into a film that had to be scrapped because it killed a woman. And they certainly wouldn't be commemorating it at their big gala forty years later, right?

LAM likely survived by handling VFX jobs for other studios using Dragonfish as a demo reel

[MicheleinPhilly]

This may have been my favorite episode yet. I'm not a big horror person but that warehouse full of Arthur's creations was so impressive and I'm glad they gave props to the actual artist. And I think the whole "hot ass mess mug shot" debacle with Nick Nolte made me forget what a terrific actor he is. 

[Paloma]

9 hours ago, kwnyc said:

Is Nick Nolte really having that kid of trouble with his voice and speech, or is it...ACTING?

My first thought was that his appearance and speech were caused by his past troubles with alcohol and drugs, but at least as of 2018 he was clean and doing well. So the voice and speech may be at least partly related to age--he is around 80 now.

https://people.com/books/nick-nolte-2002-mug-shot-new-memoir/ 

[paigow]

1 hour ago, MicheleinPhilly said:

And I think the whole "hot ass mess mug shot" debacle with Nick Nolte made me forget what a terrific actor he is. 

Even just as a voice actor on Mandalorian S1

Edited February 24, 2023 by paigow

[kwnyc]

10 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Max would certainly have a family.  The first thing the family would want is an autopsy. 

But he was still married to Laura, wasn't he? And as his spouse, she could say that she didn't want an autopsy, and have him buried or cremated right away. Cremated, probably, because then there'd be no body to exhume. 

And since ILM, I mean LAM, was a very profitable company, Laura stood to lose a lot of money if she and Max divorced.

Arthur had heart trouble. Chances are, they wouldn't have autopsied him either. And it seemed like he had no next of kin.

But Laura ended up taking her own life, and a very Poe-ike resolution. 

Well done, show!

[Ms Blue Jay]

42 minutes ago, kwnyc said:

But he was still married to Laura, wasn't he?

Max and Laura were married?!?!!?  When was this revealed?  I thought they along with Arthur were three friends who started a company together?

9 hours ago, LaylaGirl said:

Nick Nolte can still act. I thought he did great work in this. Loved the episode, even though with the high body count.

He absolutely did great work although sometimes it seems like it was hard for him to move or speak.

6 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

BTW: A Reddit poster said Natasha Lyonne also wrote (co-wrote?) and directed this episode.

Yes, this was on the credits!

4 hours ago, Haleth said:

Yeah, there were some holes in this one, especially why there wasn't a more extensive investigation of Max's death.  It was great to have Cherry Jones, Nick Nolte, and Luis Guzman in the same episode.  The casting continues to be outstanding.

I've always been a big fan of his since "Out of Sight" and he was great here!

[Ms Blue Jay]

46 minutes ago, kwnyc said:

And since ILM, I mean LAM, was a very profitable company, Laura stood to lose a lot of money if she and Max divorced.

Okay, so I think I'm piecing together that LAM did special effects, makeup, props etc but Arthur tried to branch out to direct his own movie.  After Lily's death, he abandoned that dream and just kept up their regular work.  So when Laura says she was saving Max and Arthur and their company, she means by making sure nobody knows Lily's death was intentional.

[paigow]

5 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Max and Laura were married?!?!!?  When was this revealed? 

Laura told Arthur that Max came over to discuss divorce details. He became upset and killed himself.  So she wanted a head built to beg forgiveness.

[akg]

11 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

It wasn't clear to me if everything in the missing reel except for the incriminating part that he had stuck in the Medusa's hair was burned back at Laura's house when he threw it into her fire pit, or if she had pulled it out in good enough shape to watch it and that is how she knew there was some tape missing. Because if she wasn't able to watch it, she wouldn't have known that part was missing.

That part didn't make total sense to me either. It looked like Laura realized whatever Arthur tossed in the fire hadn't burned after he left but I wasn't sure what that meant or what his thought process was.

10 hours ago, Dev F said:

And they certainly wouldn't be commemorating it at their big gala forty years later, right?

They weren't commemorating Dragonfish or Lily. The celebration was for the special effects house turning 40. Laura went way off script when she started talking about the "accident" during her speech.

[Dev F]

5 hours ago, paigow said:

LAM likely survived by handling VFX jobs for other studios using Dragonfish as a demo reel

A demo of how their work killed an actress and permanently shut down a movie? I don't see how that would be an attractive calling card. Whereas if the story is that they soldiered on in the aftermath of tragedy and produced a successful film, I can see how that would've allowed them to stay afloat.

11 minutes ago, akg said:

They weren't commemorating Dragonfish or Lily. The celebration was for the special effects house turning 40. Laura went way off script when she started talking about the "accident" during her speech.

Max was digitizing the BTS footage from Dragonfish for the anniversary, though, so presumably it was always supposed to play some part. And if the movie was only known as a disastrous project that killed a woman and nearly destroyed the company, I'm not sure why he would've bothered.

I guess the main thing is that I don't recall the episode giving any specific indication that the movie wasn't completed. Or did I miss some important reference to that?

[Ms Blue Jay]

38 minutes ago, paigow said:

Laura told Arthur that Max came over to discuss divorce details. He became upset and killed himself.  So she wanted a head built to beg forgiveness.

Wow I completely missed that!   She's so much more evil than I thought.

Just now, Dev F said:

I guess the main thing is that I don't recall the episode giving any specific indication that the movie wasn't completed. Or did I miss some important reference to that?

Arthur said that he was too devastated after Lily's death to do anything with regards to that movie, that's how I took it, but I could be remembering things wrong.

[buckboard]

On 2/24/2023 at 9:02 AM, paigow said:

Laura told Arthur that Max came over to discuss divorce details. He became upset and killed himself.  So she wanted a head built to beg forgiveness.

That's what Laura told Arthur, but we know that Max didn't kill himself because he was upset, but because Laura had poisoned him, and that she needed the head built for logging in.  And Laura and Max remained married because their divorce papers were never signed.

Edited February 26, 2023 by buckboard

[Ohiopirate02]

I'm going to see Stevie Nick's in May, and I'm feeling the need to cosplay Charlie.  I already have the unruly hair and black skinny jeans. Just need that black Fleetwood Mac shirt and her belt.

[Spartan Girl]

Great episode, but if I have to see one more person take a drink from someone they KNOW they shouldn’t trust, I will lose it. That happens way too much in shows these days…

Speaking of drinks, I was screaming at Charlie: “Don’t drink from the same bottle as Nick Nolte! You don’t know where that mouth has been!”

[shapeshifter]

25 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Speaking of drinks, I was screaming at Charlie: “Don’t drink from the same bottle as Nick Nolte! You don’t know where that mouth has been!”

Heh, as a germaphobe for half my life, I was relieved to note that the shot of Natasha Lyonne taking a drink did not even try to pretend that the bottle she put to her lips was the same as Nick Nolte's.

Are we to assume that Max intentionally fell face first to prevent Laura from using his face to login to the files?

[Dev F]

8 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Arthur said that he was too devastated after Lily's death to do anything with regards to that movie, that's how I took it, but I could be remembering things wrong.

What Arthur says is that Dragonfish "was supposed to be my big debut as a director" but instead "it all died that day." Charlie asks, "So that's why you walked away from all this?" and Arthur confirms. I thought that was about how he left LAM after that project, not necessarily that he left the project mid-production or that it was canceled even if he did.

But they certainly didn't make it clear that the film wasn't canceled either, which they easily could have by, say, having Arthur mention that the tank scene was the only big setpiece they had left to film, or something like that.

[kay1864]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

Are we to assume that Max intentionally fell face first to prevent Laura from using his face to login to the files?

That was my take, since she said she had all of his passwords.

Overall, not my favorite episode. Maybe due to what seemed like way more exposition before Charlie turned up. In other words… not enough Charlie!

[paigow]

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Are we to assume that Max intentionally fell face first to prevent Laura from using his face to login to the files?

If Max had chosen fingerprint instead of facial recognition, he would have been desperately trying to light his hands on fire or searching for corrosive liquids.... 

[Ms Blue Jay]

3 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Great episode, but if I have to see one more person take a drink from someone they KNOW they shouldn’t trust, I will lose it. That happens way too much in shows these days…

I agree, it's annoying.  Laura was on a killing spree 😄

[possibilities]

I guess the face twitch is useful as exposition when Charlie is hiding and observing in the shadows, but I preferred her saying "Bullshit" as in past episodes. The twitching looks uncomfortable. 

[shapeshifter]

7 hours ago, possibilities said:

I guess the face twitch is useful as exposition when Charlie is hiding and observing in the shadows, but I preferred her saying "Bullshit" as in past episodes. The twitching looks uncomfortable. 

Exactly! 
It could be fun for one episode in which Charlie is working for, say, and elderly, straight-laced person, if Charlie tries to curb her exclamations of bullshit by saying things like bull-hockey, balderdash, or hogwash.
Then, in a late scene, the elderly person might declare "bullshit!" themselves, which would be a punchline I'd love to hear.
But if the annoying eye twitch has irrevocably replaced her "bullshit," we won't get to see any of that. 

Hopefully Charlie will complain about her eye twitch to someone who will place a cool compress on it while telling a lie, and then Charlie will utter: bullshit, thereby ending the reign of the Dreaded Eye Twitch.

[Zaffy]

Absolutely loved it, the great cast and amazing acting.. and of course the "loose horse on the premises"...
But I dunno..if anything can surpass the MAGA dog! 

[bunnyblue]

On 2/23/2023 at 9:18 PM, kwnyc said:

Is Nick Nolte really having that kid of trouble with his voice and speech, or is it...ACTING?

 

On 2/24/2023 at 6:58 AM, Paloma said:

My first thought was that his appearance and speech were caused by his past troubles with alcohol and drugs, but at least as of 2018 he was clean and doing well. So the voice and speech may be at least partly related to age--he is around 80 now.

I thought he was suffering from Parkinson's because of how badly his hands were shaking, so I did a Google search and it doesn't appear he's been diagnosed with anything serious. So the shaky hands, the raspy voice, etc. seems due to old age (he just turned 82!) and a life hard lived. 

On 2/24/2023 at 7:30 PM, kay1864 said:

Overall, not my favorite episode. Maybe due to what seemed like way more exposition before Charlie turned up.

I think this one and the Chloe Sevigny episode are my least favorite episodes. This ep had a few good moments (the barber shop scene; Charlie in the horse costume) but the grainy look to it (especially the final sequence), the stop motion animation (never been a fan), and some things that didn't make sense (security didn't take Raoul's badge after he was fired) or seemed farfetched (Max jumping to his death so the poisoning was never discovered)...all added up to make a rather meh episode for me.

Also, I'm supposed to believe that a woman died on a movie set and no investigation ever discovered the BTS footage of Laura turning off the read light? The death happened in 1989...that wasn't so long ago. By that time, it was common for police to go over any video footage. 

Does anyone know who played young Arthur? It looked like Seth Rogan, but IMDb is of no help because the young Arthur actor isn't listed.

Edited February 26, 2023 by bunnyblue

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, bunnyblue said:

I thought he was suffering from Parkinson's because of how badly his hands were shaking, so I did a Google search and it doesn't appear he's been diagnosed with anything serious. So the shaky hands, the raspy voice, etc. seems due to old age (he just turned 82!) and a life hard lived.

Could be undiagnosed Parkinson's, a disease for which there isn't a definitive diagnosis. Both my parents died of it. 

Edited February 26, 2023 by shapeshifter

[paigow]

https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2023/02/23/poker-face-episode-8-cast-guest-stars-the-orpheus-syndrome-nick-nolte-cherry-jones/

7 hours ago, bunnyblue said:

Does anyone know who played young Arthur? 

[Paloma]

7 hours ago, bunnyblue said:

(Max jumping to his death so the poisoning was never discovered)

That bugged me, too, for a couple of reasons: (1) jumping from a high place to rocks below is likely to be a painful death (if you don't die instantaneously), and Laura had already said that his death from poison would not be painful and would be like going to sleep (of course, he had no reason to trust that she was telling the truth); and (2) if he stayed to die in her home, she would have had to figure out how to dispose of the body. I guess she could have dragged his body to the railing and thrown it over, then claimed it was suicide, but that might not be so easy and might still leave evidence if anyone investigated.

On 2/24/2023 at 8:33 PM, shapeshifter said:

Are we to assume that Max intentionally fell face first to prevent Laura from using his face to login to the files?

 

On 2/24/2023 at 10:30 PM, kay1864 said:

That was my take, since she said she had all of his passwords.

Maybe we're supposed to assume this as his reason, but as the poison started to work would he really be thinking clearly and quickly enough to realize she would need his face to log in and so he needs to ruin his face? Obviously I'm overthinking this, but it did take me out of the story when we saw the murder play out. 

[shapeshifter]

26 minutes ago, Paloma said:

Obviously I'm overthinking this, but it did take me out of the story when we saw the murder play out. 

This episode had a lot of unexplained or, at least, incompletely explained bits that I mostly glossed over while watching——I think because of all the distracting horror set pieces and horror background music and lighting and filming angles. 
I wonder if perhaps these plot holes might have been inserted deliberately to poke fun at B movies.
And also an homage to B Horror movies?