S01E13: Wall of Fire

[The Crazed Spruce]

Quote

When Todd agrees to help Susan's fiancé locate a missing employee, he stumbles into a case Margaret agreed to co-counsel with Gus.

 

[AnimeMania]

When Todd agrees to help Susan’s fiancé locate a missing employee, he stumbles into a case Margaret agreed to co-counsel with Gus. Margaret and Todd realize their cases are converging and a firewall is put into place to prevent them from communicating with each other.

Premiere Date: February 9, 2023        9pm    CBS

Clayton James (Chuck Grant)
Jeffrey Nordling (Gus Easton)
Brad Kelly (Davey)
Hugo Raymundo (Eddie)
Calder Stewart (Freddie - Clerk)
Desmond Chiam (Peter Chen)
Ken Lawson (Eugene)
Erin Karpluk (Audrey)
Darien Martin (Thor)
Jarett John (Security Guard)
Jordan David (Drugstore Security Guard)

Next New Episode: March 2, 2023

[DanaK]

3 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

When Todd agrees to help Susan’s fiancé locate a missing employee, he stumbles into a case Margaret agreed to co-counsel with Gus. Margaret and Todd realize their cases are converging and a firewall is put into place to prevent them from communicating with each other.

Premiere Date: February 9, 2023        9pm    CBS

Clayton James (Chuck Grant)
Jeffrey Nordling (Gus Easton)
Brad Kelly (Davey)
Hugo Raymundo (Eddie)
Calder Stewart (Freddie - Clerk)
Desmond Chiam (Peter Chen)
Ken Lawson (Eugene)
Erin Karpluk (Audrey)
Darien Martin (Thor)
Jarett John (Security Guard)
Jordan David (Drugstore Security Guard)

Next New Episode: March 2, 2023

Thanks for providing the cast list. I was trying to figure out Peter’s accent and thought it sounded Singaporean and that was correct per Wikipedia plus probably an Australian accent in there as well

Fun episode

[HurricaneVal]

I thought this episode was great!  Again MGH owns every scene, but the intertwining case let everyone shine.  The Margaret and Todd scenes are so good, and funny, and so true to the frustrating mother/son relationship.  The conclusion of the case was well telegraphed, but the journey was still fun.  

[Brian Cronin]

I just can't get over how bad at his job Todd is. It keeps pulling me out of episodes. He can be wacky and a bit foolish, but he shouldn't be actively bad at being a detective (of course, in the quick scene early on it suggests that he's doing a great job on all of the cases he's doing when we don't see him), and yet he constantly does really, really dumb stuff that no one would ever do. 

Gay Harden, though, of course, is a delight, and Nordling is great, as well. 

[Silver-hyren]

Damn, Skylar Astin is ripped! /shallow

[AncientNewbie]

Last week I said I can handwave away legal stuff as I can pretend it's just the Oregon way to do things, but the whole idea of splitting the firm to avoid conflict when on both sides of a case?!?!? I'm pretty sure that doesn't fly in any state. So that was a big strike for me against what was an otherwise decent episode. 

I'm not sure I get Todd at all, if I'm already in the mood to complain. I get the man-child with mommy issues, but I would expect him to be more competent at his job instead of just potentially criminal impersonation and eavesdropping again and again. So this episode when he at least followed A to B to body, I could appreciate the detecting despite the usual nonsense. 

I did like MGH and Gus. If Todd's character growth seems stalled, she at least seems to be branching out some. I liked the bit a few episodes ago where she saw how the senior partner still saw her as his assistant, despite her accomplishments. I'd like MGH to have more to do with the class conflict she might feel, where maybe she's so proper and polished because she is playing the role she thinks is expected. That ties in well with her children all having identity issues as well. Have we ever learned much about the late husband? I would be interested in what he did and how that fits with their upbringing and (apparently newly) acquired status. 

[shapeshifter]

28 minutes ago, AncientNewbie said:

the whole idea of splitting the firm to avoid conflict when on both sides of a case?!?!?

A long time ago on The Good Wife (and possibly another show I watched) they had to do something similar, but they called it a "Chinese Wall."
When they used the term "Firewall" in this episode, I wondered if this was a new term for the same concept, or a less racist term, or . . .? (I think of "firewall" as a computer term.)
But apparently "firewall" is a legal term.

But WRT Todd's screwball behavior mentioned in your post, I handwave a lot of this as a behavioral form of slapstick comedy.
Maybe there's a term for this trope?

[AncientNewbie]

I've seen (and done IRL) splits inside a firm/agency where someone is walled off from working a case due to some conflict. I just can't wrap my suspension of disbelief around a firm splitting to take both sides of litigation...even if it's just in-house practice and not actually going to court on it, it strains credibility because it's such a huge red flag in my jurisdiction. It made for a few fun spots in the episode but my lawyer brain (sort of like a reptile brain, but tackier) just couldn't let it go. 

 

[cardigirl]

1 hour ago, AncientNewbie said:

 I did like MGH and Gus. If Todd's character growth seems stalled, she at least seems to be branching out some. I liked the bit a few episodes ago where she saw how the senior partner still saw her as his assistant, despite her accomplishments. I'd like MGH to have more to do with the class conflict she might feel, where maybe she's so proper and polished because she is playing the role she thinks is expected. That ties in well with her children all having identity issues as well. Have we ever learned much about the late husband? I would be interested in what he did and how that fits with their upbringing and (apparently newly) acquired status. 

I agree with you about Margaret's continued growth. I enjoy what we've seen so far and want more. However, I think Todd's character development isn't stalled. He genuinely wished Susan the best with her new fiance, and you could tell that it was a new feeling for him. He's been enjoying working with his mother, and she's come to appreciate him and his results. I'm enjoying watching that relationship grow. 

I think it was intimated in a previous episode that the children's father died young (?) and she had to support them. I think that's to explain her concern with appearances and having successful children. Margaret seems to be loosening up a bit on what constitutes success.  Although, I am worried about her daughter and the path the show has set her on. 

Is the show really not back until March? 

[shapeshifter]

4 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

Is the show really not back until March? 

Wow. According to epguides.com/SoHelpMeTodd, the next episode isn't until March 2nd.
Updating my spreadsheet now.

Excellent description of Todd's character growth in this episode:

8 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

He genuinely wished Susan the best with her new fiance, and you could tell that it was a new feeling for him. He's been enjoying working with his mother, and she's come to appreciate him and his results.

--which does at least make it a good place to pause for a hiatus. 
I just hope they do a recap or something, because 3 weeks from now is a long time.

[cardigirl]

Is it possible there are only 14 episodes in this first season? ☹️

[shapeshifter]

2 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

Is it possible there are only 14 episodes in this first season? ☹️

Not complaining if that's all there is.
At least it was renewed!🧸

[Sarah 103]

The show reminds of Psych. It's silly fun and the plots exist as an excuse for slapstick and bedroom farce, and I am totally here for it. I hope are done with Todd and Susan. I never really understood them as a couple/their history. Maybe with a bit more explanation I would have been more on board with a will they or won't they, but there really hasn't been anything to make me root for them as a couple. 

I like that Gus understood how confused Margaret was and made it clear he did want to date her at the end. I'm not totally sure why she turned him down. Maybe she thought he was playing games with her and she didn't want to be with someone like that, which is understandable. I wish the episode had been clearer about Gus: is he toying with her emotions, or just clueless and didn't think how what he said would sound to her. 

[shapeshifter]

3 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

The show reminds of Psych. It's silly fun and the plots exist as an excuse for slapstick and bedroom farce, and I am totally here for it. I hope are done with Todd and Susan. I never really understood them as a couple/their history. Maybe with a bit more explanation I would have been more on board with a will they or won't they, but there really hasn't been anything to make me root for them as a couple. 

I like that Gus understood how confused Margaret was and made it clear he did want to date her at the end. I'm not totally sure why she turned him down. Maybe she thought he was playing games with her and she didn't want to be with someone like that, which is understandable. I wish the episode had been clearer about Gus: is he toying with her emotions, or just clueless and didn't think how what he said would sound to her. 

I liked the ambiguity of Gus' and Margaret's romantic intentions. The actors are both adept enough to pull it off, and, IRL, it happens. 

And now I just realized that "Gus" was also the sidekick's name in Psych.

[Sarah 103]

26 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

I liked the ambiguity of Gus' and Margaret's romantic intentions. The actors are both adept enough to pull it off, and, IRL, it happens.

This is why I feel like Gus not realizing he was sending off confusing signals is just as likely as him toying with her emotions. If he's a bit clueless, I like him and that feels very true to his character. If he's toying with her, he's a bit of jerk and I don't like that. I want to root for Margret and Gus, but not if he's an emotionally manipulative jerk. 

[cardigirl]

I didn't get the sense that he's a jerk, more that his focus was on this case and while yes, he's interested in Margaret, he's also keenly aware of needing to resolve the case. Plus, technology.  LOL. 

At the end, Margaret didn't say yes right away, because she's playing the game of not being over eager. You could tell by her smile she was not shutting him down, merely letting him know he was going to have to work for it. 

 

[iMonrey]

We never found out why Gus was driving a pizza delivery car.

Quote

Damn, Skylar Astin is ripped! /shallow

Yeah his arms are pretty jacked. 

[Daff]

6 hours ago, AncientNewbie said:

splitting the firm to avoid conflict when on both sides of a case?!?!? I'm pretty sure that doesn't fly in any state. So that was

This is established, known, law, no matter where lawyers practice. In a large firm, where many lawyers practice, there are bound to be conflicts of interest between and among clients. The moment they all got in the elevator, I laughed to myself, “There’s not enough room for a “Chinese Wall”! 

[Daff]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

We never found out why Gus was driving a pizza delivery car.

Yeah his arms are pretty jacked. 

Apparently, his daughter earns money that way (delivery cash). All we’ve seen of him this episode makes Margaret’s hesitancy understandable. Unorthodox lifestyle choices notwithstanding, I don’t blame her, simply because of the unreliability. He’s a likable character, but I like the fact that Margaret is waiting to see. I don’t think he has any bad intentions, he just is what he is (when he’s dressed, is he wrinkled? can’t remember). 

[twoods]

Another good episode but I’m getting tired of sad sack Allison. It’s your birthday and you’re pouting. How does her husband deal with her negative ass? Yeah, I’m sure she’s depressed but I don’t want this type of storyline. I prefer the son/mom PI scenes. 
It was nice to see the writers not throw Peter under the bus by making him a jerk, cheater or the killer. I hope they are done with the Todd/Susan angst.

Edited February 11, 2023 by twoods

[TVForever]

I'm embarrassed by this, but every episode has moments that actually make me giggle out loud! I'm glad to hear the show has been renewed; it's just fun, and I don't even mind all the unrealistic things they (well, Todd, mostly) do.

[Driad]

1 hour ago, twoods said:

Another good episode but I’m getting tired of sad sack Margaret. It’s your birthday and you’re pouting. How does her husband deal with her negative ass?

You mean Allison, right?

[twoods]

Thank you! I don’t know why I put Margaret’s name in there. I am liking the slow burn with her and the lawyer guy, even though she knows they don’t have much in common. I do sense that spark.

[Simba122504]

So we finally met Peter. He's a great guy. A perfect guy, but I still ship Susan  & Todd.  Sorry,  not sorry.  One firm cannot represent both sides of a case. I'm tired of Allison. Her husband sure lives in a state of denial. She wouldn't even meet up with her coworkers to celebrate her birthday. Either she faces her issues or they write her out. I'm tired. The spin class instructor name is Thor. Lol, I enjoyed this episode. I see they celebrated Valentine's day since the show is taking another break. 

Edited February 11, 2023 by Simba122504

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, Simba122504 said:

So we finally met Peter. He's a great guy. A perfect guy, but I still ship Susan  & Todd.  Sorry,  not sorry. 

Yeah. The only thing I’ve got against Peter Perfect is: “If it’s too good to be true, then it probably is.”

 

2 hours ago, Simba122504 said:

I'm tired of Allison. Her husband sure lives in a state of denial.

Hey, at least Allison’s hubby is there. 
But, yeah. I do not like the corner into which the writers have painted Allison. 
Best case scenario: She gives up being a doctor to…. 
Yeah, with viewers living in a world with a pandemic-induced shortage of doctors, I got nothing that works comedically. 

[Daff]

4 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Yeah. The only thing I’ve got against Peter Perfect is: “If it’s too good to be true, then it probably is.”

The writers led us on in his case. I was sure he was neck-deep in the whole scheme. And speaking of that scheme, how does faking the test help anyone? The aim was to ruin a developer, bankrupt a city?  

[twoods]

His coworker had a lot to gain by developing on that land (and making her company make a lot of money and likely a promotion) which is why she did it. Someone mentioned that towards the end of the show. The city and Peter’s company was in the dark about the land being unsuitable to develop on, which is why both sides technically didn’t lose. 

[iMonrey]

Regardless of whether or not a single law firm could represent both sides of a case, isn't Margaret Susan's superior? Couldn't she simply order Susan to drop her case? And isn't it another conflict of interest for Susan to represent her boyfriend? I mean, I know it's not the same as a surgeon operating on a family member, but it still sounds like a bad idea. If she loses the case her boyfriend might blame her.

[Maverick]

 More fiction with the all's well that ends well ending.   While she acted on her own to switch the soil samples, as an individual her assets would pale in comparison to any judgement against her.   The civil suits would still go after deep pockets.  The development company would still be sued since it was their employee that committed the crime and the city would likely still be sued for negligence in its handling of the samples.  It's a harder case to prove against both but it would still be in the courts for years.   

 Count me among those exhausted by the sister.   Her downer of a story doesn't fit in with the tone they're going for in this show. 

[Daff]

4 hours ago, Maverick said:

 More fiction with the all's well that ends well ending.   While she acted on her own to switch the soil samples, as an individual her assets would pale in comparison to any judgement against her.   The civil suits would still go after deep pockets.  The development company would still be sued since it was their employee that committed the crime and the city would likely still be sued for negligence in its handling of the samples.  It's a harder case to prove against both but it would still be in the courts for years.   

 Count me among those exhausted by the sister.   Her downer of a story doesn't fit in with the tone they're going for in this show. 

Really, I mean if you’re counting on profit from a development you’ve invested in, and said land is deemed unsuitable, you’d be doing everything in your power to find a legal loophole out of the deal! No, she switched the samples to forge ahead? What the hell did she think would happen? Can you say, “Can’t see beyond the length of my nose????”

And I agree about the sister’s depression-while I understand it informs the family dynamic, enough already! We’ve got it.  

[Simba122504]

10 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Yeah. The only thing I’ve got against Peter Perfect is: “If it’s too good to be true, then it probably is.”

 

Hey, at least Allison’s hubby is there. 
But, yeah. I do not like the corner into which the writers have painted Allison. 
Best case scenario: She gives up being a doctor to…. 
Yeah, with viewers living in a world with a pandemic-induced shortage of doctors, I got nothing that works comedically. 

Yeah, Mr. Disney Prince cannot be that perfect. I did have a dream about an outrageous wedding episode involving them. 😂 I don't know how many episodes are left in the season. Could be 22 or less than 22, but they need to do something with her plot. 

[eel21788]

15 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

The only thing I’ve got against Peter Perfect is: “If it’s too good to be true, then it probably is.”

I'm still not clear on one thing: did the $20K he thought he was giving to Kisses really go towards chemotherapy or was getting him to make the donation part of the scam to make him look guilty?

[AnimeMania]

5 hours ago, eel21788 said:

I'm still not clear on one thing: did the $20K he thought he was giving to Kisses really go towards chemotherapy or was getting him to make the donation part of the scam to make him look guilty?

I figured it was a red herring to make it look like Peter wasn't as great a guy as he turned out to be. The whole $20K incident was totally unbelievable to me, what employer gives employees money like that? Most companies wouldn't even let you sell your kid's fundraiser crap at the workplace and that benefits their school.

To me, none of what happened makes sense. How can you switch a soil sample collected, then analyzed by the same person. Did the switchee conveniently have the exact same amount of soil, in the exact same container, with the exact same writing/labels on it, hidden in a bush next to the checkpoint. I have zero knowledge about soil samples, but I would image you would have to take core samples that go down a few feet, from multiple locations (especially if you are going to develop an area with multiple skyscrapers). Who knows how much that would weigh and how could one person do all that work, why at night, why were people guarding the area in the first place, has there never been soil samples collected in that area or a nearby area before, that people can compare the results to.

The people putting up the skyscraper would have to dig several meters below the ground and should have questioned the soil composition if it was different from the report and know what type of foundation they need to provide to keep the building from sinking deeper into the earth.

[AncientNewbie]

On 2/10/2023 at 4:39 PM, Daff said:

This is established, known, law, no matter where lawyers practice. In a large firm, where many lawyers practice, there are bound to be conflicts of interest between and among clients. 

Conflicts of interest, yes. Happen all the time. Representing both sides in a case? ABA Model Rules and Oregon Rules of Professional Conduct both disallow it. 

[Lady Jane]

On 2/10/2023 at 1:39 PM, Daff said:

This is established, known, law, no matter where lawyers practice. In a large firm, where many lawyers practice, there are bound to be conflicts of interest between and among clients. The moment they all got in the elevator, I laughed to myself, “There’s not enough room for a “Chinese Wall”! 

This is my experience as well, but DAMN somebody should have run a conflict check before signing the retainer agreements. How they showed it in this episode was patently absurd, however.

I have to actively disengage my lawyer brain watching this show because they get everything wrong in the worst possible and stupid way. 

Agree about Skyler Astin's arms. Did NOT see that coming. WAY hotter than Thor LOL

[seacliffsal]

I appreciate the legal analysis from those in the know-thank you!

A couple of people have mentioned the tone of this show compared to Psych, and I noticed that Andy Berman is a producer for this show as he was for Psych (and he wrote several of the stories for Psych) so that would be a contributing factor to the similarity.  

I wish they were done with the Susan/Todd will they or won't they, but even though Todd has accepted that she has moved on, she hasn't accepted it per their last scene and her longing looks.

So, what bothers me almost every episode is that Margaret, who is a partner in a top legal firm, can take all of these last second cases.  Not only take them on, but do the investigative work for them along side of Todd.  Maybe they could do a few stories in which she is working on a long-term case but notices something she previously missed and so calls in Todd.  

And writers?  Please let Skylar/Todd sing before the end of the season...

[shapeshifter]

9 minutes ago, seacliffsal said:

I appreciate the legal analysis from those in the know-thank you!

But maybe our PrimeTimer legal eagles would like a break?
How about if they had a screen at the beginning of the episodes that read something like:

• In the service of the narrative of the story,
  legal procedures shown in this episode are not necessary true or correct. 
  
  
   

12 minutes ago, seacliffsal said:

Please let Skylar/Todd sing before the end of the season

If this happens (and I hope it does) Skylar/Todd might as well dance a bit while he sings too. 
Hmmm . . . perhaps Todd sings for a charity benefit talent show, and in the process wins the heart of Susan, while her fiancé experiences some unforeseen and fatal medical emergency. 

[AnimeMania]

Todd's psycho ex-girlfriend kills Susan's perfect boyfriend the day after they get married so that Susan is now a Mega-Billionaire, then Susan buys the law firm and everybody lives happily ever after.

[snarktini]

On 2/10/2023 at 2:00 PM, Daff said:

Apparently, his daughter earns money that way (delivery cash). All we’ve seen of him this episode makes Margaret’s hesitancy understandable. Unorthodox lifestyle choices notwithstanding, I don’t blame her, simply because of the unreliability. He’s a likable character, but I like the fact that Margaret is waiting to see. I don’t think he has any bad intentions, he just is what he is (when he’s dressed, is he wrinkled? can’t remember). 

Margaret is understandably wary and she kvetches about him but...it's also clear to me why she's interested. He's a lot like her son! Infuriating, rumpled, not following "the rules", but also charming and fun. I'm glad she took the risk to text him, and also glad that she's pulling back now. Those are both positives.

On 2/14/2023 at 6:29 AM, seacliffsal said:

A couple of people have mentioned the tone of this show compared to Psych, and I noticed that Andy Berman is a producer for this show as he was for Psych (and he wrote several of the stories for Psych) so that would be a contributing factor to the similarity. 

That probably explains why I like it! Is it completely unrealistic? Absolutely. But I still enjoy spending time with the show, it's light and funny. It helps that I'm bingeing it on Prime, it shines next to most made-for-streaming content.

I like that everyone is flawed in understandable ways. Todd is presented as the screw-up, but over time we learn that they are all unhappy, a lot due to Margaret's over-parenting. Todd is struggling but at least he broke out and defied expectations.

Can't believe it took me most of a season to figure out that Todd is Max from Zoey's Extraordinary Playlist.

Edited May 6, 2023 by snarktini