S01.E04: Curiouser and Curiouser

[Mr. Sparkle]

Rowan is plunged into the world of the infamous Mayfair family; Uncle Cortland and Aunt Carlotta present diverging views on Lasher; Rowan must choose whom to trust and face the dire consequences.

Streaming on AMC+ 23.01.26 and airing on AMC 23.01.29. 

Proceed at your own risk for spoilers before the AMC airdate.

[CarpeFelis]

I thought Rowan’s dinner would be drugged or poisoned. Carlotta is even crazier than I expected!

Edited January 27, 2023 by CarpeFelis
typo

[Glade]

The Scottish story should have been told in a single block - the characters are too vague to really care about otherwise.  The plot setups here are so flimsy, clumsy, the dialogue (Tess's mother! and 'the pipe or the house') so hackneyed and inane.  Carlotta invites Rowan as an afterthought and gives her endless chances to leave without asking her to dinner, and Cortland aims to talk to her and give her his card, but avoids doing so when he could have easily intercepted her at the funeral, offered her a ride, etc.  For supposedly calculating/manipulative people, they are eager to let happenstance lead them stumbling into every encounter with Rowan where they deliver vague and poorly worded, repetitive exposition.  For a rich family, these were cheap clothes all around, and someone would have mentioned Rowan's ridiculous footwear.  She is so independent that she needs a complete stranger as a minder 24/7. 

[Eeksquire]

I need the show to stop TELLING ME that Rowan is a brilliant doctor and SHOWING me that she's not a total dumbass. Or explain in a reasonable manner why she's making the choices she's making. As it stands, the show wants me to believe (I guess?) that she is: 1. a badass pediatric neurosurgeon; 2. a swashbuckling, devil-may-care, sleep-with-randos kind of woman; 3. kind of an alcoholic, but also: 4. someone who is constantly in terror,; 5. having hallucinations (or visions? or bad special effects?) every time she has one drink (and yet, still keeps drinking); and 6. knows that these people are scary, but is like "cool, sure I'll hang out with them alone, no problem, even though I said I wouldn't because I'm afraid."

If her character was a teenager, maybe. But not a woman in her 30s who, again: is supposed to be smart. Either she believes Cip that the Mayfairs/Lasher are so dangerous she shouldn't be in the house at all OR she thinks they're just eccentric elderly southern folk with a ghost story, but you cannot have it both ways or none of the characters' actions make sense.

[AuntieMame]

13 hours ago, Eeksquire said:

I need the show to stop TELLING ME that Rowan is a brilliant doctor and SHOWING me that she's not a total dumbass. Or explain in a reasonable manner why she's making the choices she's making. As it stands, the show wants me to believe (I guess?) that she is: 1. a badass pediatric neurosurgeon; 2. a swashbuckling, devil-may-care, sleep-with-randos kind of woman; 3. kind of an alcoholic, but also: 4. someone who is constantly in terror,; 5. having hallucinations (or visions? or bad special effects?) every time she has one drink (and yet, still keeps drinking); and 6. knows that these people are scary, but is like "cool, sure I'll hang out with them alone, no problem, even though I said I wouldn't because I'm afraid."

If her character was a teenager, maybe. But not a woman in her 30s who, again: is supposed to be smart. Either she believes Cip that the Mayfairs/Lasher are so dangerous she shouldn't be in the house at all OR she thinks they're just eccentric elderly southern folk with a ghost story, but you cannot have it both ways or none of the characters' actions make sense.

I’m not certain I would trust Rowan as portrayed to give boo boo kisses at a nursery school. I’ve known brilliant people, even women who were considered problematic because of their brilliance; they don’t act like this.  
 
You bring up another problematic aspect of the characterization. Successful surgeons aren’t huge drinkers. You can’t be and function at the level you have to function at. Alcohol and other recreational substances have a negative affect on performance even when you no longer feel drunk or high. It’s not that doctors or surgeons never drink but you either have a job that requires less in terms of performance or you wait until weekends and holidays.
 
Yes, there are alcoholics and addicts in medicine (anesthesiologists are especially prone to sampling their own wares) but these things are carefully monitored and dealt with in the profession. There are professional peer organizations dedicated to helping medical professionals who have gotten into trouble with this. If a doctor has been suspended, they can end up strictly monitored for drug and alcohol use (think weekly to bi-weekly urine and blood testing) for years. 
 
An alcoholic neurosurgeon just doesn’t track. Surgeons get up at around 4 am too so they can commute and be doing their first case by 7 am. Not good to still be drunk or hungover. Ok Rowan isn’t being a surgeon right at the moment but the drinking is presented as a habit of long standing. 

[rhygirl720]

I admit it's been years since I read the books, but I have zero recollection of this Rowan. Zero. I'm not sure if it's writing or acting or maybe a little of but I don't have high hopes for the unfolding of this tale. As much as I loved Interview with the vampire's retelling, I loathe this interpretation. Just goes to show... casting is everything.

[Mr. Sparkle]

I'm going to give an unpopular opinion and say that this episode was the best so far. At least stuff actually happened and the story moved a bit forward. So far it's been table setting and atmosphere, and it hasn't been very good at either of those. The show has been trying so hard to be creepy and scary, and it's pretty much failed at that too. 

[ZeeEnnui]

On 1/27/2023 at 1:35 PM, Eeksquire said:

I need the show to stop TELLING ME that Rowan is a brilliant doctor and SHOWING me that she's not a total dumbass. Or explain in a reasonable manner why she's making the choices she's making. As it stands, the show wants me to believe (I guess?) that she is: 1. a badass pediatric neurosurgeon; 2. a swashbuckling, devil-may-care, sleep-with-randos kind of woman; 3. kind of an alcoholic, but also: 4. someone who is constantly in terror,; 5. having hallucinations (or visions? or bad special effects?) every time she has one drink (and yet, still keeps drinking); and 6. knows that these people are scary, but is like "cool, sure I'll hang out with them alone, no problem, even though I said I wouldn't because I'm afraid."

If her character was a teenager, maybe. But not a woman in her 30s who, again: is supposed to be smart. Either she believes Cip that the Mayfairs/Lasher are so dangerous she shouldn't be in the house at all OR she thinks they're just eccentric elderly southern folk with a ghost story, but you cannot have it both ways or none of the characters' actions make sense.

Yes to ALL of this! Everyone one of these things has been running through my head like Lasher in the assassins body but with less murder-y results. 

I think my biggest issue with the way that Rowan is written, and portrayed --sorry, Alexandra D'Addario, but you are better than whatever b.s. director's notes you were given. I've never read the books so I don't know what book Rowan is supposed to be like, but I'm going to take a wild guess here, and bet that Anne Rice didn't create a heroine that was this passive. Everything Rowan does is in reaction to what's happening to her, but as others here have pointed out, we're being told what Rowan is supposed to be but that's not how she's being portrayed onscreen. Rowan reacts the way that I do when I first wake up in the morning before I have my coffee - not fully functioning, maybe not entirely awake, and definitely slow to react. 

So Courtland is #TeamLasher (or maybe just #TeamSelfInterest). I don't understand why he didn't immediately try to play Cool Great Uncle with Rowan at the funeral. He's a lot more fun than Crazy Carlotta who will save your soul or burn the house down trying. I definitely have him at the top of my suspect list for Deirdre's murder. 

AMC, I am begging you. Please stop with these Inside the Episodes. We don't need the Cliff Notes on what we've just seen. It is really not that deep. Also, maybe take a page out of the HBO playbook, and if you're going to discuss the episode, talk with the cast and others involved with the production rather than the showrunner giving us a boring play-by-play rather than any valuable insight. 

[Eeksquire]

Quote

AMC, I am begging you. Please stop with these Inside the Episodes. We don't need the Cliff Notes on what we've just seen. It is really not that deep. Also, maybe take a page out of the HBO playbook, and if you're going to discuss the episode, talk with the cast and others involved with the production rather than the showrunner giving us a boring play-by-play rather than any valuable insight.

Oh god, yes, this. Also: the podcast is really dreadful - from time to time I have to wonder if the host has even watched the episode in much detail.

[nodorothyparker]

Sigh. The chapters of Rowan finally meeting her biological family with the funeral of the birth mother she never knew and her first contact with Carlotta and the Mayfair house are among some of my favorite writing of the entire series. It's so dark and lush and high-pitched gothic. And this just ... isn't. As someone said upthread, it's like all of these random weirdo family members have no game at all and are just content to leave everything to chance and the malevolent spirit/whatever he is that's been haunting them for the better part of 300 years. But sure, Rowan. As far as you know there's nobody left in the house but the 90-year-old woman who's gone crazy-eyed religious burning it all down. Better do nothing but scream impotently for the guy you've known for all of 5 minutes who's supposed to be lurking around jumping fences outside in a way that totally wouldn't be drawing more unwanted attention in that particular part of town.

Harry Hamlin still seems to be under the impression he's in a Tennessee Williams revival. Having everyone gush about what a smart strong doctor Rowan is when she's apparently such a passive child even her self-appointed minder doesn't think she can swing by her ancestral home without an escort isn't really cutting it.

So you're making a show where New Orleans and New Orleans architecture is part of the story and you somehow ... never found out that there are no basements in south Louisiana? That there's a very good reason the above ground tombs aren't just quaint oddities? Again, like the city geography I was harping on last episode I know it's a very minor point and not the point of the story they're telling, but it's just damn sloppy when they're not otherwise telling a good enough story to get me to just go with it.

If you're going for otherwordly supernatural Scotland, please see first season Outlander. The little snippets we're getting each episode aren't really enough to tell you anything about that story other than that the costume department apparently got a bulk deal on some muddied up colonial-era wear.

[Scarlett45]

2 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

If you're going for otherwordly supernatural Scotland, please see first season Outlander. The little snippets we're getting each episode aren't really enough to tell you anything about that story other than that the costume department apparently got a bulk deal on some muddied up colonial-era wear.

I cannot this is hilarious!

[jmonique]

Is Lasher supposed to give off a 70s lounge singer vibe?

Because I suspect he's supposed to be seductive and beautiful, and middle-aged Jack Huston is a greasy miss on that count. 

As for the rest, zzzzzzzzzzz.

[dramachick]

When Carlotta saw Rowan wearing that necklace, she knew all her efforts against Lasher were for naught and enacted DEFCON End-It-All.  I've got to respect her for that, even though I hate that she stabbed sweet Ciprien.

But not to worry, Ciprien has a witch-doctor who can fix him up!  

I've never thought Rowan to be brilliant. She has achieved all that she has because of her inherent magic. Once that is distilled, what is left is a basic woman. So I'm not surprised when she does dumb things.

The whole episode was worth it just for Ciprien cooking those eggs. 🥰

[peridot]

Ciprien told Rowan that he would be nearby to protect her, but that only lasted for 10 minutes.  I don't understand why Rowan went to the house without backup, wouldn't stay in communication/be honest with Ciprien, and leave her phone upstairs.  I would have been wary eating or drinking anything from that house.  When she kept swallowing at the end, I thought she was poisoned.

It seem like Ciprien's organization was involved with the murder of Dierdre somehow.  So Lasher killed Dierdre by possessing some random guy, or was he just torturing the guy that killed his girlfriend?

I wished they introduced the other Mayfairs earlier.

[Mr. Sparkle]

8 hours ago, jmonique said:

Is Lasher supposed to give off a 70s lounge singer vibe?

I think B-list 70s actor guest starring on the Love Boat or Fantasy Island, so pretty much the same thing. 

7 hours ago, peridot said:

Ciprien told Rowan that he would be nearby to protect her, but that only lasted for 10 minutes.  I don't understand why Rowan went to the house without backup, wouldn't stay in communication/be honest with Ciprien, and leave her phone upstairs. 

Yeah, like I said in a previous thread, they have an entire secret agency of secret ghost agents aware of her, but they somehow can't spare just one of them to trail her. 

[DanielleBowden]

On 1/27/2023 at 12:17 AM, Glade said:

For a rich family, these were cheap clothes all around, and someone would have mentioned Rowan's ridiculous footwear. 

What was Courtland's daughter wearing at the funeral?  It looked like it was from JC Penney's Alexis Carrington collection. She is however my new favorite, her awkward nodding and waving at the end of the party was so cringe it was glorious.  As for Rowan's footwear, I don't think we can trust her with anything more complex than a slip-on sneaker.  Who knows what would happen?  Ciprien is beautiful to look at but the worse minder ever.  You are in great danger Rowan, I'm here to protect you.  Um, yeah, gotta go try not to die while I'm gone.

[Ohiopirate02]

10 hours ago, peridot said:

It seem like Ciprien's organization was involved with the murder of Dierdre somehow.  So Lasher killed Dierdre by possessing some random guy, or was he just torturing the guy that killed his girlfriend?

I didn't get the impression that the Talamasca was behind the murder of Dierdre.  The random guy was an assassin, but I think he was hired by Cortland to kill Dierdre and Lasher figured it out.  Then Lasher possessed him and killed him in retaliation for killing his beloved.  The stated purpose of the Talamasca is to watch and record the supernatural and not intervene to get the ball rolling with an entity like Lasher.  

[iMonrey]

Quote

Ciprien told Rowan that he would be nearby to protect her, but that only lasted for 10 minutes. 

He's done that twice now. Either she's in such grave danger she needs to be holed up in a safe house, or she's not. And surely Ciprien knows who and what she's in danger from. Why abandon her with the Mayfairs at Diedre's funeral, of all places? 

Who is this other woman living with Aunt Carlotta? Nobody has name checked her that I can recall, she wasn't at the funeral or the wake, and when Rowan saw her upstairs in her bedroom she just kept on walking without saying anything. Is she a ghost only Carlotta can see?

I don't really have an issue with Alexandra Daddario, I think the writing is the bigger problem here. That said, she does have sort of a "little girl" way of talking which I can see would be annoying.

[Eeksquire]

Quote

Who is this other woman living with Aunt Carlotta? Nobody has name checked her that I can recall, she wasn't at the funeral or the wake, and when Rowan saw her upstairs in her bedroom she just kept on walking without saying anything. Is she a ghost only Carlotta can see?

She's another great aunt - listed on IMDB as Millie Mayfair (which I knew from the book as well), but it's infuriating that she never even gets a NAME in the show. 

[whydoievencare]

So, four episodes in.  I know it takes a few episodes to set everything/everyone up.  But I really dislike Alexandra Daddario as Rowan.  There's something about both her and her voice that just doesn't work for me in this role.  And I'm disappointed in how they are portraying Lasher.  I really liked Jack Huston in Boardwalk Empire, but (unkindly of me) was Lasher kind of chubby?  And the hairdo - it's not becoming at all.  I think TPTB could have done much better. 

[anoninrva]

On 1/29/2023 at 8:01 PM, nodorothyparker said:

So you're making a show where New Orleans and New Orleans architecture is part of the story and you somehow ... never found out that there are no basements in south Louisiana? That there's a very good reason the above ground tombs aren't just quaint oddities? Again, like the city geography I was harping on last episode I know it's a very minor point and not the point of the story they're telling, but it's just damn sloppy when they're not otherwise telling a good enough story to get me to just go with it.

Book aside, the basement alone threw me completely out of the story.  Maybe they should have just set this in Metarie..

[dramachick]

23 hours ago, peridot said:

Ciprien told Rowan that he would be nearby to protect her, but that only lasted for 10 minutes.  I don't understand why Rowan went to the house without backup, wouldn't stay in communication/be honest with Ciprien, and leave her phone upstairs.  I would have been wary eating or drinking anything from that house.  When she kept swallowing at the end, I thought she was poisoned.

It seem like Ciprien's organization was involved with the murder of Dierdre somehow.  So Lasher killed Dierdre by possessing some random guy, or was he just torturing the guy that killed his girlfriend?

I wished they introduced the other Mayfairs earlier.

Rowan goes off on her own because she subconsciously (or consciously?) wants to be with Lasher, so she seeks him out. She has lusted for him since that airplane orgasm. She has sex with him in her dreams, just like Deirdra, and that supernatural sex must be out of this world! 🚬 That's how he hooks his Mayfair witches. Lasher told Carlotta that Rowan was already his because it was true. The struggle will be in trying to tear her away from him.

I also thought Rowan was poisoned with all that swallowing and carrying on. 🙄

It seems like something might be up with Ciprien's boss. The way he brushed off Ciprien's concern was too nonchalant considering that Rowan is number 13. 

 

[kassandra8286]

5 hours ago, Eeksquire said:

Quote

Who is this other woman living with Aunt Carlotta? Nobody has name checked her that I can recall, she wasn't at the funeral or the wake, and when Rowan saw her upstairs in her bedroom she just kept on walking without saying anything. Is she a ghost only Carlotta can see?

Expand  

She's another great aunt - listed on IMDB as Millie Mayfair (which I knew from the book as well), but it's infuriating that she never even gets a NAME in the show. 

There was a Millie Mayfair listed on the gravestone Rowan was looking at, the one that had her own name on it. So Millie (I didn't know her name either) must be a ghost that only Carlotta can see and communicate with? Kinda odd that someone as ultra-religious and supernatural-hating as Carlotta pals around with a ghost.

[snickers]

On 1/30/2023 at 9:54 AM, DanielleBowden said:

You are in great danger Rowan, I'm here to protect you.  Um, yeah, gotta go try not to die while I'm gone.

😄^   This writing reminds of an 80's after-school TV special

 

I'm pretty much hate watching at this point, just waiting to see

Spoiler

who from interview shows up

 

The only person I like in this is Ciprien...he's very fine to look at (unlike Lasher) and the guy's acting is good unlike pretty much everyone else....

 

On 1/30/2023 at 4:45 PM, iMonrey said:

Who is this other woman living with Aunt Carlotta? Nobody has name checked her that I can recall, she wasn't at the funeral or the wake, and when Rowan saw her upstairs in her bedroom she just kept on walking without saying anything. Is she a ghost only Carlotta can see?

I know this was mentioned she is one of the Aunt's....but this proves the point the writers have done a TERRIBLE job showing us who ANY of these characters are!

 

And did the beginning scene in Scotland remind anyone from the movie the Witch with dancing around the fire? 😁

[tennisgurl]

I was really looking forward to the funeral where we meet a bunch of the Mayfairs and get a ton of exposition dumped on us, but instead we get a lot of quick introductions to random people, no one actually doing much of anything, and Rowan continuing to wander around letting everything happen to her without any agency of her own. You would think that she would be trying to get more information from her relatives who all seem like they want to get to know her, for her own interest, to tell Ciprien, or both, but she continues to just spend most of her time starring at everything, looking confused or doe eyed. The more the show has characters tell us how smart and independent she is the more it shows that she really isn't, she comes off as slow on the uptake and passive. Its shocking how little dialogue she even has, not in the "she's quiet and observant" kind of way, and more in the "is hardly even a character so much as a MacGuffin we're following around who everyone wants. 

You would think that crazy Carlotta would at least wait until Rowan felt a bit safer before trying to kill her. Or that, if Courtland wants to get Rowan on his side, he would try to get her to come stay with him or get her away from Carlotta.

Hopefully Ciprien is alright, he's by far my favorite character, even if his "I'll look after you" skills need work. 

[Ohiopirate02]

10 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

You would think that crazy Carlotta would at least wait until Rowan felt a bit safer before trying to kill her. Or that, if Courtland wants to get Rowan on his side, he would try to get her to come stay with him or get her away from Carlotta.

Yeah, the show is dropping hints about Carlotta, the necklace, Courtland having his own agenda, Lasher being tied up in this legacy, but it would be nice if the show would have taken the time to set these things up before Deirdre's funeral.  Carlotta was as welcoming as Carlotta is able to be welcoming to Rowan until she put on the cursed necklace and once Carlotta saw Rowan put on the necklace she went homicidal.  But the show has yet to explain why Carlotta views the necklace and now Rowan as cursed.  Ditto why Carlotta gave Rowan up to Ellie and did not do away with Rowan as a baby or facilitate some kind of accident in the intervening years if she was so hell-bent on ending this family curse.  Or even keep better tabs on Rowan in the intervening decades.  Nope, Carlotta just trusted Ellie to keep Rowan away from New Orleans indefinitely.  

[iMonrey]

Quote

She's another great aunt - listed on IMDB as Millie Mayfair (which I knew from the book as well), but it's infuriating that she never even gets a NAME in the show. 

I kind of figured that but it's weird she wasn't at the funeral or at the party. Weirder still is Rowan passing by her bedroom and not going "Hello?" or asking Carlotta who that woman upstairs was.

[Eeksquire]

Quote

Yeah, the show is dropping hints about Carlotta, the necklace, Courtland having his own agenda, Lasher being tied up in this legacy, but it would be nice if the show would have taken the time to set these things up before Deirdre's funeral.

I'm starting to think that the showrunners have a Grand! Plan! and they think they're going to drop a bomb at some point and Blow! Our! Minds! except that they forgot that a large portion of the audience would have read the books and are not here for a Big Reveal, they're here because of the IP behind the show. I can live with changes from the book (see: IWTV for an excellent example) but this show doesn't hang together at all. If it did, perhaps the episode insiders wouldn't be the showrunner explain what happened every week.

ETA: I don't know why I am so worked out about this show, except that I was really looking forward to it and it's SO BAD!

Edited February 2, 2023 by Eeksquire

[Ohiopirate02]

2 hours ago, Eeksquire said:

I'm starting to think that the showrunners have a Grand! Plan! and they think they're going to drop a bomb at some point and Blow! Our! Minds! except that they forgot that a large portion of the audience would have read the books and are not here for a Big Reveal, they're here because of the IP behind the show. I can live with changes from the book (see: IWTV for an excellent example) but this show doesn't hang together at all. If it did, perhaps the episode insiders wouldn't be the showrunner explain what happened every week.

ETA: I don't know why I am so worked out about this show, except that I was really looking forward to it and it's SO BAD!

I get why the showrunners wanted to circumvent the massive mid-book info dump. It's bad storytelling and only someone like Anne Rice could pull it off.  But, their approach is all wrong.  Their choice of flashbacks are not adding to the story or explaining the character's present day actions.  Those Susanna Mayfair scenes are badly written, badly directed, and badly acted.  What this episode needed was some flashbacks to Carlotta's childhood and young adult life.  Show us how and why she's the way she is in the present.  

[txvoodoo]

On 1/29/2023 at 7:01 PM, nodorothyparker said:

So you're making a show where New Orleans and New Orleans architecture is part of the story and you somehow ... never found out that there are no basements in south Louisiana?

That made me cringe SO HARD. 

On 2/1/2023 at 9:03 PM, Ohiopirate02 said:

Those Susanna Mayfair scenes are badly written, badly directed, and badly acted. 

These are the worst Scottish accents I've heard in forever. I can't blame the actors - IMDB tells me most of the ones in the Scottish parts are from places like Arkansas, Montana, etc. But how hard would it have been to get some people who actually know accents? 

 

Also, the portraits make me so angry. THEY'RE AWFUL. 

[PrincessPurrsALot]

On 1/30/2023 at 1:45 PM, iMonrey said:

I don't really have an issue with Alexandra Daddario, I think the writing is the bigger problem here. That said, she does have sort of a "little girl" way of talking which I can see would be annoying.

There are two vocal choices that AD makes that I find really annoying and that weaken the presentation of the character.  The first is going to whisper speak.  This super softened tone has become more common on TV.  It is not whispering when you don't want to overheard.  Instead it is an extra breathiness.  The second is a way of speaking in which you constrict the throat.  It gives a bit of a garbled backing sound, as if the person has phlegm caught in the back of their throat.  It is similar to the sound if someone is trying to choke back tears.  Both of these choices make her come of weaker.  With how much the writing makes a mess of the character, she certainly doesn't need acting choices that make it worse.