S03.E14: Trials and Tribulations

[SweetieDarling]

1 hour ago, Baltimore Betty said:

So if Jen knew since 2018 that the feds were sniffing around her business why did she go on and on about how one of the HW's ratted her out and acted like it was a total surprise when the feds were swooping in on her and her home when they were in the Beauty Meth Lab parking lot, she knew it was a matter of time, right? 

Can you imagine how differently that scene would have gone down if Jen had stepped out of the sprinter van with wrists outstretched

[ichbin]

1 hour ago, Baltimore Betty said:

Jen sat there on the front step of her rented home with her mother and never admitted to her mother that she did the crime and took her mother's retirement money and even though she pled guilty her mother still was saying how Jen was innocent?  

I don't trust that anything I see on television is 100% true, particularly in regard to this issue. I won't believe her mother emptied her retirement account to aid Jen's legal defense unless I see the documentation to prove it.  Do I believe Jen capable of having taken it? Sure.  Did she?  Who knows. I do think it is possible that her mother and other family members believed her to be innocent though because I think Jen likes it up on that pedestal she seems to fancy herself to be standing upon in terms of appearing to be the savior of the family. 

The bottom line for me is that she is despicable, in the crime(s) committed as well as how she has and continues to portray herself in the media.  

[pasdetrois]

5 hours ago, ichbin said:

I don't trust that anything I see on television is 100% true, particularly in regard to this issue. I won't believe her mother emptied her retirement account to aid Jen's legal defense unless I see the documentation to prove it.

I agree. I remember in earlier episodes Jen hinted that her mother should help Jen financially, and in the final episode didn't Jen say something like "you offered to share your retirement accounts"? I didn't hear "you gave me money from your retirement accounts," but I may have misunderstood.

Either way, in that earlier episode I thought Jen was trying to shame her mother into helping her financially because Jen had given her mother a lot of money over the years. Some social media claim that Charlene did indeed give Jen $1M from her retirement account.

I've posted a link about Charlene's professional life in the media thread.

Edited January 13, 2023 by pasdetrois

[Natalie68]

1 hour ago, heatherchandler said:

 

I would actually like Angie Harrington(?) on the show.  She is not afraid to humiliate herself and she has a lot of money.  This show is so boring, I feel like she would bring some drama.  And her husband is a loon, I would like to watch this supposedly successful man act a fool on tv.

 

I think he thought she was a savvy businesswoman, but then found out she was running a scam and tried to help her hide the crimes.  He should be in trouble for that, it is a crime to help someone conceal crimes.

 

She was basically supporting most of her family.  She has a bunch of brothers and sisters who apparently could not/cannot keep jobs, or pay their bills, many of them wrote statements to the judge on her behalf, praising her kindness, saying that she was always willing to help.  Which, like I have said, it is very easy to help people when you have stolen millions.  She got to look like the saint, meanwhile she was stealing people's life savings!  And eventually those people ended up not being able to pay their own bills.  

 

I saw somewhere Jen's new nickname is "Shah-shank"  HAHA

 

So basically she was using her family as a laundromat.

[Emmeline]

10 hours ago, ZettaK said:

Coach Shah obviously knew since at least 2018 because he gave legal advice to Stuart. Did he tell Jen to end the fraud? Obviously not, because her, and her employees moved the operations to another country (Kosovo) in order to hide them, and used the encrypted app Telegram for communications among them and with the victims. 
So, both Shahs deceived the public. 

Coach Shah asked the court for leniency, and to reduce Jen's sentence.

https://pagesix.com/2022/12/22/jen-shahs-husband-pleads-for-leniency-in-fraud-sentencing/

Thanks for the link.  If Jen finally plead guilty on July 11, 2022 just before trial was to start, that must be the approx time they were filming the end of the season.  They kept mentioning that Omar was 16.  This article as well as some other sources say that Sharrieff Shah Jr. is 28, and Omar, 19.  So how did Omar get 3 years older in 6 months.

I also have to remark on Coach Shah’s legs in the hotel.  They were completely hairless and moisturized to the 10th degree.  I know it’s trivial, I just couldn’t stop looking.

I wonder if he is prompting Jen to be honest in her upcoming interview with Andy so she can be forgiven.  The same way he told Angie Harrington and her husband that he needed their explanation and apology in order to forgive.

[Salacious Kitty]

Omar is 16. When the arrest happened and they searched Jen's house, she cried about how the Feds harassed her 15 year old. 

[janiema]

On 1/13/2023 at 11:08 AM, bichonblitz said:

My thoughts are that coach didn't know until the shit all hit the fan. Jen finally admitted the truth to him and asked him to help her with a strategy to stay out of jail. Then his defense mode was to try to help his wife get out of the mess that she created. He's a lawyer so he was "coaching" her on what to say/not say. No, I don't think he knew all along. 

He probably thought his wife was a great business woman that was raking in the $$$ and enjoyed all of it without question. Until the bottom dropped out. 

I think this is the most likely scenario.

[janiema]

I’m a little confused about the financial part of Jen’s sentence - approx 6.5 million of forfeiture, 6.5 million of restitution. Does the forfeiture create the funds for restitution? If not, and there are not approximately 13 million of assets, which gets priority?

I was glad to see the conversations at the end of the episode between Heather, Meredith and Lisa. It showed that they were capable of thinking and acting like adults. I don’t remember whether Whitney was there with them. She may have been busy processing the abuse she doesn’t remember.

[amarante]

I think Shah was aware that Jen was doing illegal stuff - if his spidey senses weren't alerted that she and Stuart were being investigated by the FTC and having to answer questions - and then coaching them on responses - he is a fool and Coach isn't a fool - not to mention he is a lawyer.

I do think that knowledge that your spouse is engaging in crimes doesn't make you guilty of the crime although it obviously shows that one's moral compass is not pointing in the right direction. 

I think the larger issue is whether Coach is civilly liable in terms of his assets also being subject to attempts to collect. As far as I know there is no reason that someone who was harmed by the scheme couldn't also sue Jen (and perhaps Coach) for their damages. The issue would seem to be the expense of collection since for most of the victims their actual losses aren't enough to make hiring a lawyer feasible. Of course perhaps a class action of some kind?

 

[rlc]

Things I will not miss next season (if there’s another season):

Jen

Jen hulking/raging out

Jen wearing that stupid hat in her confessionals 

All things ‘shah’- mazing, riffic, tastic etc 

Jen’s ass being kissed by every cast member

Brooks Marks tracksuits

Heather/Heather’s black eye/Heather feelings herself

Coach Shah acting like he had no clue what was going on

There are so many things that pissed me off this season, but the fact that Jen stayed in a corner suite at her Manhattan hotel was the cherry on top.

Needless to say, I am not ride-or-die for this show.

 

 

Edited January 15, 2023 by rlc

[Starlight925]

I’m not a lawyer, but…

If Coach (or Erika Jayne) knew that criminal behavior was being committed, does that make them guilty of concealing a crime?

If I saw my friend steal a handbag from a store, am I considered complicit?  An accomplice?  Anything?

 

[RealHousewife]

3 minutes ago, Starlight925 said:

I’m not a lawyer, but…

If Coach (or Erika Jayne) knew that criminal behavior was being committed, does that make them guilty of concealing a crime?

If I saw my friend steal a handbag from a store, am I considered complicit?  An accomplice?  Anything?

 

Hopefully a lawyer responds, but regarding the spouses, ethically I'd say it does when they're living off that money and not trying to put a stop to the criminality. They might as well be doing the stealing themselves. Seeing a friend steal from a store and not doing anything is different imo. I would try to get my friend not to, but I am not benefitting from what she steals the way Erika or Coach were. Also a difference between stealing a shirt from a store and stealing tons of money from orphans and widows or the elderly.

[pasdetrois]

On 1/14/2023 at 4:32 PM, amarante said:

I think the larger issue is whether Coach is civilly liable in terms of his assets also being subject to attempts to collect.

Coach may be waiting for the other shoe to drop. I think he will be nervous for at least several years.

[Starlight925]

Ok a quick search tells me that if a person isn’t the guilty person, there is no liability for them to report the crime. 
 

Not sure if there are differences by state.  
 

So, Coach & Erika got to enjoy the fruits of their spouses’ misdeeds, while not bearing any responsibility.   
 

Yet no one seems to express honest remorse towards the victims they rampantly took advantage of. 

[Ms.Lulu]

I can imagine, though, that he could lose his coaching job. If there is evidence that Coach knew and tried to cover up the crime, the university could decide to terminate his contract. They could see it as a breach of a morals clause.

And of course, if Jen wasn't declaring her ill-gotten gains, Coach will be responsible for paying taxes on the money, regardless of whether he knew what was going on. Add to that the clawback of $13MM, Coach could find himself feeling the financial pain of her actions.

And my two cents, he should.

 

[kassa]

I guess money doesn't count as stolen property? Because if your spouse was stealing televisions and you had a stolen television in every room and were handing them out to your family I would assume there'd be a receiving stolen property crime in there somewhere, wouldn't there?

Under Massachusetts law he would be in jeopardy if they could prove he knew what she was doing. The jeopardy, in terms of fines/imprisonment, does not appear to be that harsh in proportion to crime.

Section 60 of Chapter 266 of the Massachusetts General Laws criminalizes the act of buying or receiving stolen property. It provides that anyone who buys, receives or aids in the concealment of stolen or embezzled property, knowing it to have been stolen or embezzled, or whoever with intent to defraud buys, receives or aids in the concealment of property knowing it to have been obtained from a person by a false pretense of carrying on business and dealing in the ordinary course of trade shall be in violation of the law. If the value of the property does not exceed $250, (misdemeanor buying or receiving stolen property) a conviction for a first time offense will result in the following penalties:

• Imprisonment in jail or house of correction for not more than 2.5 years, or
• A fine of not more than $250.

If the value of the property exceeds $250, (felony buying or receiving stolen property) a conviction will result in the following penalties:

• Imprisonment in the state prison for no more than 5 years, or
• Imprisonment in a jail or house of correction for no more than 2.5 years, or
• A fine of not more than $500.

[J80134]

On 1/12/2023 at 4:54 PM, heatherchandler said:

Yeah Coach knew, he was helping her and Stuart lie.

 

Who even talks like this?  Heather says it every episode.  I have never heard this terminology, what does it even mean?  She will ride (where?) with you or die with you?

 

 

I believe its a reference to Thelma and Loiuse. Basically...your best friend to the end

[ZettaK]

On 1/14/2023 at 4:32 PM, amarante said:

I think Shah was aware that Jen was doing illegal stuff - if his spidey senses weren't alerted that she and Stuart were being investigated by the FTC and having to answer questions - and then coaching them on responses - he is a fool and Coach isn't a fool - not to mention he is a lawyer.

I do think that knowledge that your spouse is engaging in crimes doesn't make you guilty of the crime although it obviously shows that one's moral compass is not pointing in the right direction. 

I think the larger issue is whether Coach is civilly liable in terms of his assets also being subject to attempts to collect. As far as I know there is no reason that someone who was harmed by the scheme couldn't also sue Jen (and perhaps Coach) for their damages. The issue would seem to be the expense of collection since for most of the victims their actual losses aren't enough to make hiring a lawyer feasible. Of course perhaps a class action of some kind?

 

A class action suit by the victims.

[Cheezwiz]

My main takeaway from this final episode is that Coach Shah and his sons are going to have themselves a nice long peaceful Jen-free holiday.

I feel kind of sad that Coach probably knew. He's turned out to be one of my favourite house-husbands. How he tolerated that many years with that psycho hose-beast I will never know.

[RealHousewife]

23 minutes ago, Cheezwiz said:

My main takeaway from this final episode is that Coach Shah and his sons are going to have themselves a nice long peaceful Jen-free holiday.

I feel kind of sad that Coach probably knew. He's turned out to be one of my favourite house-husbands. How he tolerated that many years with that psycho hose-beast I will never know.

Some of the husbands in the franchise can be pretty rude and crude. Coach was always a gentleman. It's disappointing that he knew for the last few years. I don't know how he tolerated Jen either. 

[heatherchandler]

13 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

Some of the husbands in the franchise can be pretty rude and crude. Coach was always a gentleman. It's disappointing that he knew for the last few years. I don't know how he tolerated Jen either. 

He is obviously faking that "gentlemanliness" for the cameras.  I was fooled by him, he is good at pretending to be above it all and so wise.  Yeah those emails from Jen to Stuart where she says that Coach has come up with answers for the feds when he was being interviewed.  I wonder when he figured it all out.  Also, what kind of a person wants to be married to a lunatic like Jen??  

[RealHousewife]

12 minutes ago, heatherchandler said:

He is obviously faking that "gentlemanliness" for the cameras.  I was fooled by him, he is good at pretending to be above it all and so wise.  Yeah those emails from Jen to Stuart where she says that Coach has come up with answers for the feds when he was being interviewed.  I wonder when he figured it all out.  Also, what kind of a person wants to be married to a lunatic like Jen??  

If it weren’t for those emails, I’d say it’s possible he’s a nice man who’s too scared to leave.

[pasdetrois]

Coach has played a clever long game in looking after his own ass.

[heatherchandler]

58 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

If it weren’t for those emails, I’d say it’s possible he’s a nice man who’s too scared to leave.

Right?  Those emails are damning, they put him into a whole new light.

[Rlb8031]

On 1/14/2023 at 3:14 PM, janiema said:

I’m a little confused about the financial part of Jen’s sentence - approx 6.5 million of forfeiture, 6.5 million of restitution. Does the forfeiture create the funds for restitution? If not, and there are not approximately 13 million of assets, which gets priority?

I was glad to see the conversations at the end of the episode between Heather, Meredith and Lisa. It showed that they were capable of thinking and acting like adults. I don’t remember whether Whitney was there with them. She may have been busy processing the abuse she doesn’t remember.

My reading of it is that the government has already identified assets worth approximately $6.5m. Based on my rudimentary knowledge of forfeiture, they have to identify those assets when they move against them. So that would include any real estate Jen paid (or partially paid) for, real property such as cars, jewelry, stocks, retirement accounts, etc. As for coach and the other family members that may have paid, anything he paid into would still need to be sold and they would then be paid out for their share. I'm not sure if they are given the opportunity to purchase/payback the item first (for example if she provided the downpayment on a home that was 25% of the value, would the 75% owner be permitted to pay the government for the value of the 25% before it gets put on the auction block). I do know that the government does not give the spouse/kids a break on the custodial home. They tell you to get out by x date and if you are not, the Marshall shows up to evict you.   I'm also not sure how it works if they sell something for more than it was valued. I think that if it is partially owned the excess money is split with the other owner, but if it is owned only by the criminal, all additional money goes towards paying your debt off. 

In Jen's case, once they have taken/sold all the items seized she will still have a separate $6.5 million bill she has to pay. That bill follows her until it is paid in full. Da' Brat talks about her arrest for assault and the resulting $1M in restitution the court imposed upon her as part of a civil judgment. She's said she could be paying it off for the rest of her life, which is why she's trying to maximize the amount of work she is doing now. She realized while serving time in jail, that she might be in a position of having to work into her 80's or 90's to continue paying against that debt. Jen's number is unfathomable in her current circumstance.

As for Coach, I don't think those conversations mean that he had knowledge in advance. The reality is very few spouses leave when their partners are accused of heinous things. Hell, even when there are scandals directed at the spouse (infidelity being the big one), people stay and try to "work through it". I think it's unrealistic to expect that her husband would pick up, move out, take the kids and leave her alone, especially if they had no real marital issues up to that point. Coach strikes me as being principled, and that translates into sticking with his wife, especially if he believes that she is worthy and capable of redemption. It is that "love the sinner, hate the sin" attitude that so many religious folks have.  

[Emmeline]

5 hours ago, Rlb8031 said:

My reading of it is that the government has already identified assets worth approximately $6.5m. Based on my rudimentary knowledge of forfeiture, they have to identify those assets when they move against them. So that would include any real estate Jen paid (or partially paid) for, real property such as cars, jewelry, stocks, retirement accounts, etc. As for coach and the other family members that may have paid, anything he paid into would still need to be sold and they would then be paid out for their share. I'm not sure if they are given the opportunity to purchase/payback the item first (for example if she provided the downpayment on a home that was 25% of the value, would the 75% owner be permitted to pay the government for the value of the 25% before it gets put on the auction block). I do know that the government does not give the spouse/kids a break on the custodial home. They tell you to get out by x date and if you are not, the Marshall shows up to evict you.   I'm also not sure how it works if they sell something for more than it was valued. I think that if it is partially owned the excess money is split with the other owner, but if it is owned only by the criminal, all additional money goes towards paying your debt off. 

In Jen's case, once they have taken/sold all the items seized she will still have a separate $6.5 million bill she has to pay. That bill follows her until it is paid in full. Da' Brat talks about her arrest for assault and the resulting $1M in restitution the court imposed upon her as part of a civil judgment. She's said she could be paying it off for the rest of her life, which is why she's trying to maximize the amount of work she is doing now. She realized while serving time in jail, that she might be in a position of having to work into her 80's or 90's to continue paying against that debt. Jen's number is unfathomable in her current circumstance.

As for Coach, I don't think those conversations mean that he had knowledge in advance. The reality is very few spouses leave when their partners are accused of heinous things. Hell, even when there are scandals directed at the spouse (infidelity being the big one), people stay and try to "work through it". I think it's unrealistic to expect that her husband would pick up, move out, take the kids and leave her alone, especially if they had no real marital issues up to that point. Coach strikes me as being principled, and that translates into sticking with his wife, especially if he believes that she is worthy and capable of redemption. It is that "love the sinner, hate the sin" attitude that so many religious folks have.  

I do not believe they had any real estate.  The Utah homes were rentals.  Coach and Jen had already been close to divorce years ago but apparently worked it out.  

[JAYJAY1979]

The only good part of the finale party...imho