Season Two Talk

[apgold]

Love Skip and this whole season - this show is very well done.  I had to laugh when Ben Affleck found out he was distantly related to Matt Damon.

 

Sorry to see it end.

[Constantinople]

Sting is British?

 

Who knew?

[HelenBaby]

It was a pretty straightforward episode with few surprises except for Chopra. Who knew his dad was so intimately entwined with Mountbatten? Who was Queen Elizabeth's Uncle. Maybe he would be an interesting man to know more about.

[Kromm]

Sting is British?

 

Who knew?

Yes.  Want another one? Bono is Irish!

 

Really!  I kid you not!

[BusyOctober]

I live in Mass & I'm a history buff so I was geeking out as soon as I heard the name William Bradford.  Sally Field is not only related to a passenger on the Mayflower, but she's a direct descendant of the leader and first Governor!  I like Sally Field a lot, but she should have been more excited about this info in my opinion.  Just saying "oh cool I always liked Thanksgiving"  is not the reaction I'd expect. 

 

Chopra's story about his ancestor's ashes and his thoughts for his unborn grandchildren had me all choked up. I don't consider myself spiritual but that was beautiful.

 

Like so many others in Boston/.NYC/Chicago, some of my relatives were greatly affected by the famine in Ireland.  I don't know if if any of my family were in "workhouses", but what a horrifying institution.  I also thought it ironic that someone like Sting who fights for human rights would have a GG Grandmother sentenced to one of the most soul stealing places in history.

 

Overall, this was one of my favorite episodes.  But I have to ask why they did the DNA testing for these guests but omitted it from the Jewish guests' show last week?  Even when it's expected the DNA is 90% European or Middle Eastern or whatever, they still have done it for other guests.  I wanted to see what ancient migration patterns (if any) showed up for Carole King et al.

[attica]

So Sally is related to Ashley Judd! Ashley is also descended from W Brad, as we learned in WDYTYA. Only she got to go and sit in his old prison cell. Sally just got a book. :)

 

God bless him, Sting is a douchebag. And yet, I can't bring myself to hate on him. I guess he's just my kind of douche. Anyway, his comments about the pride the shipbuilders could take in seeing The Thing They Built sail off kind of made me misty. Lord knows my workday never yields something so concrete. (Not counting, of course, the internet posting I do on my boss's time. Shhhh!) 

 

On the one hand, seeing the deep and abiding love the Indians have for their ancestors and the Ganges is truly moving. Which makes me feel a little bad, when on the other hand, the thing that immediately springs to my mind when Chopra talks about the 'fragrance of the ancestors' is the smell of rotting flesh and other effluvium that get put into that water.

[ShelleySue]

Even before I moved to Massachusetts and visited Plimouth Plantation numerous times, I knew about William Bradford.  Heck, he was a main character in every elementary school Thanksgiving play we put on.  I'm not sure how many children he had, but I know six different "unrelated" people who are his descendants.

 

Did they ever explain how Sting's relatives ended up back in England after going to Australia?

[kassa]

I too thought it was really weird that they talked about Sting's people going... yet buried the lead about why they came back.  Maybe they couldn't figure out why and didn't want to take the time to say so.  They weren't gone long, though, if my quick calculations were right -- their son was born in the UK, so they didn't stay long.   I don't see anything wrong with Sting, though.  Seems like a thoughtful guy.

 

On a shallow note, Gupta's dad was hot and his mom was GORGEOUS!  Felt really bad for his grandparents, though.   Grandpa's photo looked a bit like a cat dipped in water.  

 

 

Sally was touched by her ancestor having to pack up and flee as a Loyalist, but I agree that her Mayflower reveal was odd.  Maybe she already knew.  I do get tired of the whole "Puritans persecuted for wanting religious freedom!" trope, though -- they wanted everybody ELSE to adopt their very strict religious views, and eventually everybody else got sick of that and kicked them out. Telling people that the state religion is corrupt and people who practice it are damned was a political act as much as a religious one (at least in the 17th century). Not exactly like other small religious sects just trying to worship in their own little communities, bothering nobody.  

Edited November 12, 2014 by kassa

[Constantinople]

I live in Mass & I'm a history buff so I was geeking out as soon as I heard the name William Bradford.  Sally Field is not only related to a passenger on the Mayflower, but she's a direct descendant of the leader and first Governor!  I like Sally Field a lot, but she should have been more excited about this info in my opinion.  Just saying "oh cool I always liked Thanksgiving"  is not the reaction I'd expect. 

 

To be fair, she's part Canadian.

[Driad]

 

My family has a line of Puritan ancestors, and our saying is that the Puritans came to America to have the freedom to persecute other people for their religion.

 

And a riddle --

Q:  If April showers bring May flowers, what do May flowers bring?

A:  Pilgrims.

[Milz]

Quoting Chief Wild Eagle on F-Troop "Many moons ago tribe move west because Pilgrims ruin neighborhood. Tribe travel west, over country and mountains and wild streams, then come big day... tribe fall over cliff, that when Hekawi get name. Medicine man say to my ancestor, "I think we lost. Where the heck are we?"

[cheeztoast]

Looks like tonight they're exploring people with Greek roots - Tina Fey, George Stephanopoulos and David Sedaris - 3 people that I really love.  OK, 2 I love and 1 I like. 

[HelenBaby]

Don't know why Skip said David had 4 siblings when he had 5. One has died, but he tells about his four sisters and younger brother a lot in his books.

Edited November 19, 2014 by HelenBaby

[stormy]

I would've been like a contestant on "The Price is Right" if I found out that Ben Franklin had written a letter to my ancestor. If I would have gotten that info, Prof Gates would have had to pick me up off the floor.

Tina Fey seemed so nonchalant.

Did Prof Gates say one of her 5th great grandfather's quilts was hanging in the Metropolitan Museum of Art?

[Milz]

Did Prof Gates say one of her 5th great grandfather's quilts was hanging in the Metropolitan Museum of Art?

 

Yes he did. And that the quilts are studied by quilters/quilt historians. I've never tried quilting.

[rubyred]

Cracked up and scared my cat when Gates asked Sedaris if he could imagine killing someone, and Sedaris paused thoughtfully and said, "Not a stranger."

 

I've known about the enmity between the Greeks and Turks but had a shamefully shallow knowledge of its historical origins. Very interesting episode.

[ShelleySue]

I know that I've said this before and I'm sorry if I sound like a broken record, but here goes.  David Sedaris was almost 100% European and he still got his DNA results. Why weren't the DNA results shown for the Jewish guests?  

 

I was sad to hear that next week's show will be the last of the season. I will miss it.

 

Frequently, but especially this week, I realize how lacking my education is of European history.  I knew about the Turks/Ottoman Empire and Greece, but not the details.

 

I was surprised to hear Skip, who lives in the Boston area, mispronounce "Concord."  I only lived here a few weeks before I realized that place names are pronounced very differently than the rest of the country.  Here Concord is "Conquered."  In case your wondering about other examples, Peabody is "Pea-buddy" (actually "Peab'dy") and Quincy is "Kwin-zee.

[HelenBaby]

 

I was surprised to hear Skip, who lives in the Boston area, mispronounce "Concord."  I only lived here a few weeks before I realized that place names are pronounced very differently than the rest of the country.  Here Concord is "Conquered."  In case your wondering about other examples, Peabody is "Pea-buddy" (actually "Peab'dy") and Quincy is "Kwin-zee.

I spent first through fifth grade in a small town called Maryville Tn. and my family always called it Maryville. Cut to many years later I was visiting the area and mentioned that fact to a waitress where I was having dinner. The waitress said "that can't be right. You didn't call it Murville, like most people who live there." We also pronounce Peabody as Pea body here. So just because natives have certain it one way doesn't mean others don't pronounce it another way.

[attica]

Some years ago, I sang in a chorus that performed in George's dad's church (or at least the one he ran at the time). Beautiful, ornate, gold leaf everywhere.

 

I think I snorted at the "not a stranger" retort. I'm feeling you, baby.

[Kromm]

I know that I've said this before and I'm sorry if I sound like a broken record, but here goes.  David Sedaris was almost 100% European and he still got his DNA results. Why weren't the DNA results shown for the Jewish guests?

His DNA was fairly mixed. He had both Asian (well, Turkish) as well as Jewish/Semitic ancestors.

I really don't think there's some great conspiracy here. I think the "backstories" portion of the Jewish episode was SO packed they didn't have time for the DNA reveal (which probably in the case of those particular guests was reasonably predictable or they might have MADE the time). Whereas this Greek episode, as a counter-example, was fairly thin in content and they needed to burn those extra few minutes.

[Driad]

The DNA of the Jewish guests was tested. The DNA thread has a link to an article.

[atir]

I too was surprised at Skip's mispronounciation of Concord. I live in KS and even I know how to say it. It's like the grapes, baby!

[Milz]

Regarding "Concord", there's a Chinese American chef named Ken Hom, who has/had a popular cooking show in the UK. I remember him saying that when he began the show, the producers told him to pronounce "water" as "wah-TEAR" (rhyming with "air" and "dare")  to make his American accent more understandable to the UK audience (needless to say, I don't think I've ever heard characters on  UK shows rhyme "water" with "air" and "dare".....) Maybe that's the same reason for Concord? 

[biakbiak]

Don't know why Skip said David had 4 siblings when he had 5. One has died, but he tells about his four sisters and younger brother a lot in his books.

 

The reference to his siblings was in regards to how David learned to tell stories growing up around the dinner table trying not to get interrupted by his siblings, Paul aka the Rooster was born when David was a late teenager. 

Edited November 26, 2014 by biakbiak

[editorgrrl]

David Sedaris was born in 1956. His brother Paul was born in 1968. When their sister Tiffany died in 2013, David published an essay in the New Yorker, "Now We Are Five."

Edited to add that I really liked the season 2 finale, "Decoding Our Past Through DNA." It has two guests rather than three, and (as the name suggests) focuses on DNA more than genealogy. DNA don't lie.

Edited November 26, 2014 by editorgrrl

[Milz]

I liked the finale. Frankly, I'd like to see more guests with a variety of DNA like Jessica Alba. It was a blast that her distant maternal cousin is Alan Dershowitz because I got the distinct feeling she didn't know who the hell he was until Gates told her.

 

Really wild philosophical-science moment during the discussion that all of the people currently on Earth are somehow related to each other.

[pasdetrois]

I liked the episode because it reminded me of some of the basics, which I struggle to keep straight. Mitochondrial DNA = mommy DNA; autosomal DNA = both sets of grandparents' DNA. (Do I have that right, or am I still getting it wrong?)

 

 

Really wild philosophical-science moment during the discussion that all of the people currently on Earth are somehow related to each other.

 

Don't many scientists believe we all came from "Lucy in Africa?" I remember learning from my participation in the National Geographic project years ago something along those lines.

 

Very cool that someone is building a native database. Many contemporary Native Americans are suspicious of DNA collection and testing, which makes it hard to research native ancestry.

 

And the other databases are large enough now that researchers can discover an ancestor in the absence of any documentation. So cool.

Edited November 26, 2014 by pasdetrois

[Milz]

Yep. Mitochondrial DNA = mom(and mom's mom and mom's mom's mom, etc.) and Chromosomal DNA mom and dad.

 

Forgot to mention earlier. Skip and his cousin Jennifer (I think that's her name) have the same bone structure from the eyes up.

[Galloway Cave]

 

It has two guests rather than three,

Well, Skip was actually the third guest! I loved seeing him on the other side of the table, sitting there looking excited while his cousin read the little white book of ancestry to him. She even gave him his own official ancestry map! His Mayle ancestor was an interesting man and the late 1700s mixed-marriage town in the hills was fascinating. After all the work that he has done for others, it was pretty cool he was able to get some answers on his white ancestry.

 

I really enjoyed this season. Even though they had three guests per episode, I liked how they used each episode to highlight a certain topic or location. I didn't know about half of the guests but that didn't stop me from enjoying their segments. 

Edited November 26, 2014 by Galloway Cave

[PRgal]

Regarding "Concord", there's a Chinese American chef named Ken Hom, who has/had a popular cooking show in the UK. I remember him saying that when he began the show, the producers told him to pronounce "water" as "wah-TEAR" (rhyming with "air" and "dare")  to make his American accent more understandable to the UK audience (needless to say, I don't think I've ever heard characters on  UK shows rhyme "water" with "air" and "dare".....) Maybe that's the same reason for Concord? 

 

Instead of wadder (which is how most people in the US and Canada seem to pronounce "water").  Did they make him say to-MAH-toe instead of to-MAY-toe (or rather, tuh-MAY-do)?

[Kromm]

I liked the finale. Frankly, I'd like to see more guests with a variety of DNA like Jessica Alba. It was a blast that her distant maternal cousin is Alan Dershowitz because I got the distinct feeling she didn't know who the hell he was until Gates told her.

Haven't seen the episode yet, but my past observations of Alba is that she's not the sharpest tool in the shed. So yeah, I could believe she might not have a clue who Dershowitz was.

[TiredMe]

I enjoyed this episode a lot. Esp the whole "myth about Native American dna". My 2nd great grandmother was part Cherokee to the point of my great aunt devoting so much if her life to studying Native American culture and doing things like visiting the trail of tears memorial.

Well I got my ancestry Dna a few weeks ago and I have exactly 0% Native American Dna! Poor aunt.

[zxy556575]

I wonder where the African-American stories of Native American heritage came from, or became so widespread. Or maybe they're not and it's just Gates who thinks so.

 

Heck, I'm 99.3% European and even I have .2% East Asian/Native American. I'll attribute my .4% Sub-Saharan African to Lucy.  ;)

[editorgrrl]

I wonder where the African-American stories of Native American heritage came from, or became so widespread. Or maybe they're not and it's just Gates who thinks so.

“Why most black people aren’t 'part Indian,' despite family lore” by Henry Louis Gates Jr.

The average African American is 73 percent sub-Saharan, 24 percent European and only 0.7 percent Native American.…

Bottom line? Those high cheekbones and that straight black hair derive from our high proportion of white ancestors and not, for most of us at least, from our mythical Cherokee great-great grandmother. Sorry, folks, but DNA don’t lie.

Edited November 27, 2014 by editorgrrl

[Enigma X]

Since Gates initially made those statements about most African Americans not having Native DNA and the average amount of European DNA that an African American has, the science has evolved. So his figures are most likely off. Since I can't remember where I read this, mark what I am going to say as hearsay but many AAs actually do have NA DNA and the average AA is about 20-23% European. 

[pasdetrois]

Regarding NAs and AAs, in the southeast there was some mingling between the two groups, mostly in the 1800s; the Five Civilized Tribes owned AA slaves. If one goes to a pow-wow in the southeast these days, one sees tribal members who have physical features of both.

 

For a long time white people hid their native ancestry because it was considered shameful. Then in the 60s it became fashionable to appropriate native culture and ancestry.

[pasdetrois]

 

There are several great essays on the web that debunk the trope/myth of the Cherokee princess great-grandma--they also do a great job of hypothesizing why it might have become a thing.

 

Because of my job, many white people claiming native ancestry (usually a Cherokee great-grandmother, or something similar) approach me about tribal enrollment. They either want tribal benefits or a "government grant."  I ceased being shocked at how many of them are furious at the notion that there's a good chance they do not have native ancestry, or that it cannot be proven for purposes of benefits (there are no government grants).

 

Also, in about 80% of the cases where I mention that I work with tribes, such as at dinner parties, people tell me they have native ancestry. It is indeed a very big Thing.

[kassygreene]

Jessica Alba may have known who Alan Dershowitz was without knowing his face.  I know who he is, and I've pretty much known what he looks like for twenty plus years, but when I hear his name the first image that flashes in my brain is Ron Silver from Reversal of Fortune.  (For the same reason, I know what Claus von Bulow looks like, but I always first think of Jeremy Irons.)

 

This was a terrific episode, and frankly I think all the subjects (JA, Deval Patrick, and Skip Gates) probably had enough information for a dedicated hour each.  The solution his Mayle ancestor found speaks to human responses to vile laws, and the self-segregation of the Mayles and similar families is so very American - it's what the Puritan Pilgrims did, after all, albeit for much better reasons (not a fan of the actual Puritans).  We'll be re-watching this one.

[kassa]

I loved learning about that mixed race community. It's a story I'd never heard about.  Would make an awesome background for a miniseries with multiple "how did they get here" personal stories.  I wonder how long they were able to live in tolerance before the greater society encroached on their world?   

 

Very cool that someone is building a native database. Many contemporary Native Americans are suspicious of DNA collection and testing, which makes it hard to research native ancestry.

 

 

I don't know if it was one of Gates' show or Who Do you Think you Are, but there was a Native American author who did not want her DNA revealed on television out of respect for her family, because of course it was not "just" her information, but theirs.  

 

As for everybody being related, we also have to keep in mind that there just weren't that many people on the planet 5-600 years ago, let alone thousands of years ago.  Fewer people, in fact, than there would have to be for the straight math to work (2 parents, 4 grandparents, 8 gg grandparents, etc.).  There simply weren't enough people on the planet for there to be no repeats even within your own personal family.  And then if you subtract the vast majority of the planet's population that simply for geographic reasons were completely out of the equation as possible ancestors, and the genetic bottlenecks of various plagues that wiped out millions within certain populations, and wars,,, there aren't that many distinct people that the majority of people within specific ethnic groups COULD be descended from.  

 

People lived in small communities and married cousins. Occasionally armies moved through and mixed things up.  

 

 

I like when they match celebs to each other, just for the randomness, but people who can identify their ethnic groups are pretty much automatically related to others in that ethnic group within a certain number of generations.

[Pepper Mostly]

It was a pretty straightforward episode with few surprises except for Chopra. Who knew his dad was so intimately entwined with Mountbatten? Who was Queen Elizabeth's Uncle.

 

Late to the party, but Mountbatten was Prince Philip's uncle, not the Queen's. Lord Mountbatten was a very smart man who knew how to take advantage of his opportunities, so he threw his tall, handsome, blond, blue-eyed nephew into the orbit of the young princess. the rest is history!

[ShelleySue]

I loved this episode.  I'm glad that Skip got his questions answered, and in such a grand way.  I had always thought that Black American's had white ancestors due to nonconsensual sex (rape).  I'm sure that that's the case for the majority, but it's good to know that there are some happy stories.

 

Mr. ShelleySue's father was quite an amateur genealogist and had traced all family branches on his side back to Germany and England (most came over in the early 1700's).  Mr. ShelleySue's maternal grandparents came from England.  Yet, according to 23andMe, Mr. ShelleySue has Native American DNA.  The family trees my father-in-law worked on so diligently are, obviously, only paper records and there is some story hidden in the past of how that DNA got there.  I wish that this show had the opportunity for real people (i.e. not celebrities) to have the extensive DNA searches that are featured on the show.  Maybe someone else has that same snippet of NA DNA and knows what happened.

Edited December 1, 2014 by ShelleySue

[HelenBaby]

Late to the party, but Mountbatten was Prince Philip's uncle, not the Queen's. Lord Mountbatten was a very smart man who knew how to take advantage of his opportunities, so he threw his tall, handsome, blond, blue-eyed nephew into the orbit of the young princess. the rest is history!

I knew he was somehow related and that Prince Charles was very close to him. Thanks.

[kassa]

The Queen and Philip are both great great grandchildren of Victoria, and Dickie was a great grandchild of Victoria, so they're all related to each other in various directions.  

 

But Mountbatten's sister was Philip's mother, so he's a direct uncle.