S05.E07: Maybe Tomorrow

[secnarf]

Quote

The staff grapples with the aftermath of the Supreme Court abortion rights decision. Wilder counsels a woman whose pregnancy endangers her life. Max seeks a healthcare solution for out-of-state patients. Bloom reveals monumental news to Reynolds.

Original air date: Nov 1 2022

[CoyoteBlue]

Max's storyline was his usual ineffectual dumbassery. I get that they wanted to "do something" re: Roe v. Wade, but New York State acknowledges abortion as a right, so New Amsterdam will not be directly affected by it. Him being willing to learn to do a D&C was an understated and actually useful action, should he want to get hands on in the future.

Wilder and her patient - look, it may suck, but patients ALWAYS have the choice on their treatment. She could have opted to not get treated at all and just ride out the time she has left, fetus or no fetus. Patients make those decisions for all kinds of reasons - to assume the woman was doing it to "make a political stand" is just rude. If she truly believes that the fetus is the equal of a human being, then she would no more abort to save her life than kill her one-day-old child to save her life. And that's her choice; let her make it.

Iggy and Martin made me nostalgic for the days before the writers went insane. I need Hot Gay Dad in my TV life.

[Brian Cronin]

24 minutes ago, CoyoteBlue said:

Wilder and her patient - look, it may suck, but patients ALWAYS have the choice on their treatment. She could have opted to not get treated at all and just ride out the time she has left, fetus or no fetus. Patients make those decisions for all kinds of reasons - to assume the woman was doing it to "make a political stand" is just rude. If she truly believes that the fetus is the equal of a human being, then she would no more abort to save her life than kill her one-day-old child to save her life. And that's her choice; let her make it.

It was aggravating seeing Wilder say everything BUT what would have addressed the topic at hand, which is namely, "You have the choice to do this, but if you don't get treatment, the cancer will not only kill you but likely will ALSO kill your fetus." 

But yes, the confusion over her having the ability to not get treatment was BONKERS. Of COURSE she can refuse treatment. It was idiotic. 

Edited November 2, 2022 by Brian Cronin
Typo

[LexieLily]

I'm not sure what point the Bloom/Reynolds abortion storyline was supposed to be making. From what I remember from season one they weren't exactly a one-night stand but weren't committed and serious, either. It was entirely Lauren's decision and Lauren's call, for sure, but at the same time Reynolds is allowed to have feelings about it, Bloom. What was gained by telling him five years after the fact?

[txhorns79]

4 minutes ago, LexieLily said:

What was gained by telling him five years after the fact?

To give them something to do during the episode?  Wonder if Floyd's dad is still being involuntarily committed.  I don't think he was even mentioned this week after all the fuss that was made last week.

14 minutes ago, Brian Cronin said:

But yes, the confusion over her having the ability to not get treatment was BONKERS. Of COURSE she can refuse treatment. It was idiotic. 

And were the doctors in the operating room honestly suggesting that Wilder just perform the abortion anyways against the patient's wishes?  That was nuts.

[Brian Cronin]

10 minutes ago, LexieLily said:

I'm not sure what point the Bloom/Reynolds abortion storyline was supposed to be making. From what I remember from season one they weren't exactly a one-night stand but weren't committed and serious, either. It was entirely Lauren's decision and Lauren's call, for sure, but at the same time Reynolds is allowed to have feelings about it, Bloom. What was gained by telling him five years after the fact?

I don't think that she was looking to gain anything out of it, she was just reacting to the news in the moment. As for their breakup, she wanted more, but he told her he didn't see a future with her because she was White. That's why she wasn't feeling like telling him back then. Floyd seemed to understand it when he learned about the timing, "Ah, yeah, I probably wouldn't tell me either if I had been you in the moment." 

Edited November 2, 2022 by Brian Cronin

[KaveDweller]

30 minutes ago, CoyoteBlue said:

Wilder and her patient - look, it may suck, but patients ALWAYS have the choice on their treatment. She could have opted to not get treated at all and just ride out the time she has left, fetus or no fetus. Patients make those decisions for all kinds of reasons - to assume the woman was doing it to "make a political stand" is just rude. If she truly believes that the fetus is the equal of a human being, then she would no more abort to save her life than kill her one-day-old child to save her life. And that's her choice; let her make it.

Yeah, they can't force chemo on her if she doesn't want it, even if she wasn't pregnant. I did wonder where the father was. Not that he could override her, but he'd have a reaction that would be good drama and maybe add to the conflict.

Interesting that Wilder was so big on choice here though. A few episodes ago she almost forced a dude to amputate his arm against his wishes.

13 minutes ago, LexieLily said:

I'm not sure what point the Bloom/Reynolds abortion storyline was supposed to be making. From what I remember from season one they weren't exactly a one-night stand but weren't committed and serious, either. It was entirely Lauren's decision and Lauren's call, for sure, but at the same time Reynolds is allowed to have feelings about it, Bloom. What was gained by telling him five years after the fact?

I don't think Lauren intended to tell him it was his. She was talking about how she'd had an abortion due to current events. She didn't tell him it was his baby, he figured that out once she mentioned it was when she was addicted to Adderall. 

[Sweet-n-Snarky]

49 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

Yeah, they can't force chemo on her if she doesn't want it, even if she wasn't pregnant. I did wonder where the father was. Not that he could override her, but he'd have a reaction that would be good drama and maybe add to the conflict.

Interesting that Wilder was so big on choice here though. A few episodes ago she almost forced a dude to amputate his arm against his wishes.

I don't think Lauren intended to tell him it was his. She was talking about how she'd had an abortion due to current events. She didn't tell him it was his baby, he figured that out once she mentioned it was when she was addicted to Adderall. 

That part I didn't have an issue because she was reacting to the news and it went from there.

I was however annoyed that she kept lashing out at Floyd like he was judging her for having an abortion when all he was doing was processing this new information and that she never told him about it in five years despite them also being close friends. It was weird that she acted like he wasn't allowed to react at all. Her whole bit about men making it about themselves didn't fit their specific situation. 

I kinda wish they had more female characters to carry this episode. I hate that even Karen took a backseat for most of it and left it to Max to carry. Ans I wish he was focusing on how to handle things from where he is in NYC. It felt odd for them to attempt to address Texas from NY. It never stood a chance at being realistic or plausible.

57 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

Interesting that Wilder was so big on choice here though. A few episodes ago she almost forced a dude to amputate his arm against his wishes.

I had a hard time taking Wilder's about face seriously because she was just trying to force that man to amputate his arm against his wishes and she was forcing that donor to give their blood to the child rapist. And these things just happened recently enough where her suddenly advocating for someone's rights like this felt out of character and jarring. 

[Brian Cronin]

6 hours ago, Sweet-n-Snarky said:

I had a hard time taking Wilder's about face seriously because she was just trying to force that man to amputate his arm against his wishes and she was forcing that donor to give their blood to the child rapist. And these things just happened recently enough where her suddenly advocating for someone's rights like this felt out of character and jarring. 

Yep, and all of her dialogue was designed to be JUST off enough to set up a perfect dunk by the patient. It was like they wrote the patient's speech first and then said, "Okay, so what can Wilder say that can set up this speech, whether it would make any sense for her to say it?" 

[txhorns79]

9 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

Interesting that Wilder was so big on choice here though. A few episodes ago she almost forced a dude to amputate his arm against his wishes.

It says something that I completely forgot this happened, even though that episode is only a few weeks old.  I suppose you could fanwank and say that Wilder learned and grew from that other experience, so she's now more respectful of patient choices.

[izabella]

Nope, way too heavy-handed.  Wilder's patient wouldn't have so calmly sat there and agreed to a colostomy bag for the rest of her (probably short) life as a best case.  She wouldn't have said she needed to find another doctor after the surgery was cut short since they couldn't remove the cancer.  She would have gotten the abortion so she could have chemo and live.  That's what most people do in real life even if they are against abortion, and we have many, many examples of that.  And what was that surgery?!  They removed her uterus and then put it back after they cut whatever cancer they could out?  It wasn't connected to anything, so how in the world was it getting blood?  The baby supposedly remained alive during that?  WTF?  That's a thing?

[Brian Cronin]

1 hour ago, izabella said:

Nope, way too heavy-handed.  Wilder's patient wouldn't have so calmly sat there and agreed to a colostomy bag for the rest of her (probably short) life as a best case.  She wouldn't have said she needed to find another doctor after the surgery was cut short since they couldn't remove the cancer.  She would have gotten the abortion so she could have chemo and live.  That's what most people do in real life even if they are against abortion, and we have many, many examples of that.  And what was that surgery?!  They removed her uterus and then put it back after they cut whatever cancer they could out?  It wasn't connected to anything, so how in the world was it getting blood?  The baby supposedly remained alive during that?  WTF?  That's a thing?

Most people would agree to get the chemo because the doctors also wouldn't frame it as "You have to abort your baby now!" Just simply, "if you don't do this, both you AND your future baby will die, so there is no point for you sacrificing yourself when it will kill BOTH of you." Had it been late in the pregnancy, the woman would have just held off on the treatment. We see stuff like THAT all of the time (women choosing to hold off on treatment so that they can first give birth), but not that early in the pregnancy. 

[Madding crowd]

I applaud the show for dealing with this heavy subject, but why in the world would Karen expect Max to be able to save abortion rights? Then she is suggesting she has unlimited funds for him to work with but no she doesn’t; the hospital funds are overseen by a board and accountants and she would have to justify using tax payer funds in another state.

For once I wasn’t annoyed at Iggy but I did wonder why the man was allowed to grab and try to restrain the woman going into the abortion clinic, that’s illegal too. 

[CarpeFelis]

17 hours ago, Brian Cronin said:

It was aggravating seeing Wilder say everything BUT what would have addressed the topic at hand, which is namely, "You have the choice to do this, but if you don't get treatment, the cancer will not only kill you but likely will ALSO kill your fetus." 

This was what bugged me about the episode, too. Especially given that this woman’s cancer was so much more widespread than initially thought, how likely is it that she’ll live long enough to carry the fetus to a point where it’s viable? Odds are the baby dies even if she gets no treatment. So why not at least try save her own life?

[bros402]

it's time for...

WORST DOCTOR OF THE WEEK

ooh look we start with max's face

uh oh, max dropped his phone to dramatic music

uh oh, awesome nurse showed bloom his phone and SHE DROPPED HER COFFEE, OH NOOO

let me guess, school shooting or something and the hospital is gonna have to have everyone do everything and max will crusade against guns

uh oh, awesome deaf doc looks mad

oh it's the show reacting to the asses on SCOTUS overturning Roe v Wade - the writers are sure going to handle this delicately and not annoying at all

this episode is gonna be interminable with Max's crusade, isn't ut

didn't that ruling get released at like 10 AM? why was everyone heading to work

damn max, now you need to use that offer of unlimited money to get everything you want - set up a ship in international waters to do abortions

why are the doctors looking like laughter is an odd reaction to cance--wait she just had abnormal cells detected after the roe v wade ruling overturned, and they managed to do a CT (or PET) and get the results of everything that quickly? wat

hey it's military guy

max how will a hospital in NYC open a medical facility on federal property in texas?

iggy you knocked the crap out of that guy

shouldn't he be checked checked out because you knocked the man unconcious

reynolds how are you so bad at your job that you don't remember the name of the anesthesiologist you have worked with for years

or use your normal vision to see the name on her coat

yeah that surgery sounds like a bad option

military guy, you should say cryptic things and just leave too!

yay, iggy's awesome husband!

how long has that guy been talking to the cops about the same exact thing that there was enough time for board lady to call the husband and for him to get there

and the husband is speaking the truth like he always does

i bet iggy isn't going to exactly do it

so are these kids going to just get walked around to every place in the hospital?

uhhh operating room people, you need to treat the patient, not her politics - even if she were a serial killer

also awesome deaf doc didn't you just want to amputate a guy's arm against his wishes earlier this season

yesssssssssssssssss I was right - he's doing an abortion boat like that one in the gulf of mexico

aaand of course max didn't ask if it could go on the open seas

max breaking the law and involving a member of the board is a good way to go to prison

wtf is with the camera angles during this apology, i bet this is him imagining it

wooo, right again

bloom I don't think this is what the girl meant by you guys not talking about Roe v. Wade

god the character in this deaf doctor plot is so annoying

UM MAX THAT IS INCREDIBLY ILLEGAL IN TEXAS, unless you are going to set up a fund to pay the 10k bounty that the citizens get for suing a doctor

you think deaf doctor would've tried to get forced birth patient to stay until she was at least a few hours recovered from surgery

please stop beating me over the head with the politics - yes, Roe v Wade is important but my god at least do some nuance to the episode 

or have better writers

we don't need a caricature to show us the worst SCOTUS decision since Citizens United - they could just show real stories from the news!

this is so heavy handed

hey, they actually wrote board lady's a bit decently.. or maybe it's because the actress is good

um max I don't think you can just say "train me to do an abortion" and then you are legally able to perform one

and I don't think it's a one time training and then you can do it - but hey, you did something good!

the timeline for this season is so weird - we know this episode is june 24, Luna was born around summer 2018, so we should be coming up to another Luna birthday

max you just read a story to luna to presumably to get her to go to bed

and now you are making her hyper with a piggyback ride?

that is not good parenting

why didn't they focus this on max doing stuff in NYC - yes, it is acknowledged as a right in NYC, but Max could always do things to ensure the right for the tri-state area, especially given the shakiness of it being preserved in PA, pending the results of their governor race

So, who's the worst doctor? There wasn't too much medicine - Iggy was in cuffs for most of the episode (hey, maybe he and awesome husband like it, so maybe Iggy found it to be nice), awesome deaf doctor was dealing with the monster, and Bloom and Reynolds were at each other's throats the entire episode (because Bloom doesn't think Reynolds is allowed to have feelings).

This episode, the worst doctor is Reynolds - he forgot the name of the anesthesiologist he has worked alongside for years!

god, when I do little awards for this series, one of them is definitely going to be named "How Can't I Help?" and it'll be for either the worst doctor... or the stupidest plan max has had. This was one of the best plans he has had, but that's because the writers saw it in the news.

[Brian Cronin]

How funny, too, was Max's "Oops, the first boat I bought can't get down there, so I guess this plan can't work"? 

[TVForever]

22 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

I applaud the show for dealing with this heavy subject, but why in the world would Karen expect Max to be able to save abortion rights? Then she is suggesting she has unlimited funds for him to work with but no she doesn’t; the hospital funds are overseen by a board and accountants and she would have to justify using tax payer funds in another state.

For once I wasn’t annoyed at Iggy but I did wonder why the man was allowed to grab and try to restrain the woman going into the abortion clinic, that’s illegal too. 

I get Karen's reaction, actually. In that moment, she was just feeling so much disbelief, grief and desperation, and it seemed like a huge Hail Mary was in order., and for better or worse, Max is the king of the Hail Mary. Her logical mind knew it would go the way of most (all?) of Max's schemes, but it probably felt good in the moment to do something, anything.

Regarding Iggy, I kept waiting for someone to point out that the protester spent so much energy telling Iggy not to touch him (which Iggy didn't), and in the very next moment, grabbed the woman, hard. Iggy only punched him in her defense. Iggy, the woman patient, witnesses in the crowd-- nobody spoke up.

And Iggy's husband is the best. I hope they make up ( I love their family), but Iggy does not deserve him.

Edited November 3, 2022 by TVForever

[circumvent]

Hard to watch. I grew up in a country where abortion is illegal. In my 20s I took friends to doctors who safely perform them, if one can pay the exorbitant amount. Luckily I never needed one because I could never pay for that. One friend had a back alley abortion and almost died. I can only imagine how many more died.

I just wish they had it done the whole thing a little different. The cancer patient said she could never kill a person (fetus, but ok). So, tell her, you are killing it anyway.

The guy and Iggy - you don't want a "baby" (fetus) to "die" but have you wore a mask during covid? Because you might have transmitted the virus and someone might have died because of you.

The venn diagram of people who are anti-choice, who refuse(d) to wear a mask, and who are anti-vaxxers (sending their unvaccinated kids to play and learn with other kids, potentially killing a child, maybe their own) is almost one big circle. Pointing the hypocrisy without going to the 2A would work better because the 2A fanatics are just that. Showing that they want their choices respected but don't respect other people's choices, all the while potentially doing the same harm they claim an abortion does - "kill a baby" would be more powerful. If you are going to do an episode about this, go all in, throw the shit back at their faces, but gently, using their own arguments. It stinks more this way, imo

shallow note: what a beautiful girl Samira is. 

Another shallow note: Luna is really cute. Still not 5, but really cute. Nice to watch because she only comes in small doses. Please send note to The Resident

[bros402]

7 hours ago, circumvent said:

Another shallow note: Luna is really cute. Still not 5, but really cute. Nice to watch because she only comes in small doses. Please send note to The Resident

oh my god I was thinking that the entire time Luna was on screen

[Rammchick]

21 hours ago, Brian Cronin said:

How funny, too, was Max's "Oops, the first boat I bought can't get down there, so I guess this plan can't work"? 

You must have heard me saying something like this out loud to the dog.  I guess that was the only boat for sale within a hundred miles, and there was never going to be another one for sale.  Ever. Too bad 😏

I've enjoyed this show, although I have never been blind to its faults.  But what's going on this season?  It's like the writers are trying to cram way too much into every episode because the show is ending, and they keep coming up with illogical junk.  Yeah, as a doctor, you can be miffed if a patient doesn't make the decision you'd want them to, but continually bullying them? Roe v. Wade was overturned -- Max, go fix the abortion problem??

And if Luna is supposed to be 5, how come she barely can speak? 

[CoyoteBlue]

17 hours ago, bros402 said:

max how will a hospital in NYC open a medical facility on federal property in texas?

why didn't they focus this on max doing stuff in NYC - yes, it is acknowledged as a right in NYC, but Max could always do things to ensure the right for the tri-state area, especially given the shakiness of it being preserved in PA, pending the results of their governor race

Yeah, I got that they wanted a response to the SCOTUS decision and all, but that created a forced situation of Max running around sticking his nose in the efforts of docs in other states. Although, to be honest, it fits with Max's "how can I make it worse?" style of "helping".

17 hours ago, bros402 said:

god, when I do little awards for this series, one of them is definitely going to be named "How Can't I Help?" and it'll be for either the worst doctor... or the stupidest plan max has had. This was one of the best plans he has had, but that's because the writers saw it in the news.

Hah! Max is the King of Not Really Helping.

[bros402]

8 hours ago, CoyoteBlue said:

Yeah, I got that they wanted a response to the SCOTUS decision and all, but that created a forced situation of Max running around sticking his nose in the efforts of docs in other states. Although, to be honest, it fits with Max's "how can I make it worse?" style of "helping".

Hah! Max is the King of Not Really Helping.

Like I could see if Max offered to ship some meds to the doctors in other states that they might need but find hard to get in their states - but not "let's uproot all of your lives and just tell your patients to find their way here"

I mean it would be an interesting case to see how it would be decided if a public hospital in NY paid for patients in a state where abortion is banned to fly to the facility and get the care they need. Since I wonder if the hospital would be viewed different from a 501(c)(3) providing funds or transportation to a medical facility?

Two more awards I thought of:
The Reynolds Award for Excellence In Plot Armor (aka worst case of how the hell did that character not die from that) coughcoughTheTimeHeWasInAnElevatorShaftcoughcough
The Kapoor: Most Missed Character (Dead? Written Off? Everyone who is no longer on qualifies!)

[renatae]

On 11/1/2022 at 10:09 PM, CoyoteBlue said:

Max's storyline was his usual ineffectual dumbassery. I get that they wanted to "do something" re: Roe v. Wade, but New York State acknowledges abortion as a right, so New Amsterdam will not be directly affected by it.

Exactly. All of them acting like the sky was falling was ridiculous. New York legalized abortion three years before Roe v. Wade.

Also trying to present the woman who didn't want the abortion as anything but a mother who made a choice of hope was offensive. Many women do refuse treatment during pregnancy and have had good outcomes.

I couldn't take this episode and turned it off.

Edited November 5, 2022 by renatae

[circumvent]

7 hours ago, bros402 said:

Like I could see if Max offered to ship some meds to the doctors in other states that they might need but find hard to get in their states - but not "let's uproot all of your lives and just tell your patients to find their way here"

I mean it would be an interesting case to see how it would be decided if a public hospital in NY paid for patients in a state where abortion is banned to fly to the facility and get the care they need. Since I wonder if the hospital would be viewed different from a 501(c)(3) providing funds or transportation to a medical facility?

Some laws punish people that seek abortions everywhere. They are that draconian because of course, putting women who need healthcare in jail is a perfect solution for what they claim to be "life" 🙄

49 minutes ago, renatae said:

Exactly. All of them acting like the sky was falling was ridiculous. New York legalized abortion three years before Roe v. Wade.

Also trying to present the woman who didn't want the abortion as anything but a mother who made a choice of hope was offensive. Many women do refuse treatment during pregnancy and have had good outcomes.

The show decided to air the episode because it is midterms season. I believe other shows did the same. It is silly, grassroots is the only way to help women get the healthcare they need. 

The way they did the patient's story was bad. They should have said: the only way to save your life is for you to have an abortion. She said no, so send her home, free the bed, good riddance. The other doctor (not Wilder) was too emotional and unprofessional. Me, I have no patience for people who put religion above logic and common sense. Go ahead lady. kill yourself and your fetus. Bye.

[Johnny Dollar]

Instead of buying that bucket of bolts, maybe Max should’ve bought the old Staten Island ferry that Colin Jost and Pete Davidson own. That seems “slightly” more plausible, if not still a stupid idea.

I don’t remember people in NYC walking around like zombies when the decision was announced, since it did not directly affect them. Luckily this very divisive issue will be forgotten next week.  Sorta like Helen.

Where was the pregnant woman’s husband? Was she not married? Is there some kind of scale used to measure sins?

[renatae]

1 hour ago, circumvent said:

They are that draconian because of course, putting women who need healthcare in jail is a perfect solution for what they claim to be "life" 🙄

No current laws seek to punish the woman, so there's that.

7 minutes ago, Johnny Dollar said:

Luckily this very divisive issue will be forgotten next week.  Sorta like Helen.

I was thinking the same about Helen. It's as though she never existed. Max sure doesn't seem to miss her.

Then there's the other extreme, Carter on ER mooning around for about fours years for dolt Kem who was carefree as a butterfly with anyone but him.

Edited November 5, 2022 by renatae

[izabella]

1 hour ago, renatae said:

No current laws seek to punish the woman, so there's that.

I'd argue all the laws seek to punish the woman if they prevent her from getting medical care she needs and wants.

I didn't like that they used this medical situation for a Roe episode.  While it's true there are women who need chemo and have to abort to get that chemo to save their own lives, the problem isn't that women who don't want to abort and choose not to get chemo are being prevented from making that choice.  The problem is women who want to save their own lives by getting the chemo are being prevented from making that choice to abort under some state laws.  So it felt like a backwards approach to the issue, maybe in an attempt to make others see things from a different perspective?  I don't know.  It fell flat for me as a vehicle for the main story.

Edited November 5, 2022 by izabella

[circumvent]

3 hours ago, renatae said:

No current laws seek to punish the woman, so there's that.

Actually, the laws that are enacted or proposed are ambivalent about the issue. They don't explicitly say that the woman will be jailed and face prosecution, yet many women do go to jail even if charges are dropped - because many of the laws also don't explicitly say that a women is not to be punished. The fact of jail or not is actually the least of the problems with the laws. Abortion is healthcare, some women will be prevented to access it. It is also a double standard where poor people cannot have a choice at all, some people have a choice to go somewhere also, and all decided by a minority that care little about the actual meaning of LIFE. 

3 hours ago, Johnny Dollar said:

I don’t remember people in NYC walking around like zombies when the decision was announced, since it did not directly affect them

That's not to be takes as what happened. It is an allegory about how most people felt in the country, a red flag about what might happen.

1 hour ago, izabella said:

The problem is women who want to save their own lives by getting the chemo are being prevented from making that choice to abort under some state laws.

Nailed in one simple, straight forward sentence 👏👏

[Cloud9Shopper]

4 hours ago, renatae said:

No current laws seek to punish the woman, so there's that.

I was thinking the same about Helen. It's as though she never existed. Max sure doesn't seem to miss her.

Then there's the other extreme, Carter on ER mooning around for about fours years for dolt Kem who was carefree as a butterfly with anyone but him.

Max was sad for one episode about Helen it seemed and now he’s practically boning Wilder. And Luna doesn’t miss Helen at all? Doesn’t ask about her? Nothing? 

I’m an ER fan too and remember the Carter/Kem fiasco well. No doubt the stillbirth was tragic but they needed to either decide to stay together and heal/work through it and find a new way forward or split up. Hard to believe that by the time the series finale rolled around five years later they were still playing games. 

[bros402]

16 hours ago, circumvent said:

Some laws punish people that seek abortions everywhere. They are that draconian because of course, putting women who need healthcare in jail is a perfect solution for what they claim to be "life" 🙄

The show decided to air the episode because it is midterms season. I believe other shows did the same. It is silly, grassroots is the only way to help women get the healthcare they need. 

The way they did the patient's story was bad. They should have said: the only way to save your life is for you to have an abortion. She said no, so send her home, free the bed, good riddance. The other doctor (not Wilder) was too emotional and unprofessional. Me, I have no patience for people who put religion above logic and common sense. Go ahead lady. kill yourself and your fetus. Bye.

The ones that punish abortion seekers going out of state would hopefully be considered a violation of the Commerce Clause.

Yeah - that patient's story was just presented badly. Honestly, it would have been much better if the main story was in the past - one showing Board Lady & her friend and the other showing Bloom's abortion. We didn't need a patient in an episode like this, it would've been much better if it had shown them. They could've still used the kids who wanted to be doctors as a framing device for Bloom. Then shown Board Lady talking to Max to reveal that the one in the 60s was Board Lady & friend, not just Random 1960s Women.

[LexieLily]

On 11/5/2022 at 1:33 PM, Cloud9Shopper said:

Max was sad for one episode about Helen it seemed and now he’s practically boning Wilder. And Luna doesn’t miss Helen at all? Doesn’t ask about her? Nothing? 

Out of everything Luna's ambivalence about Helen doesn't make sense. The premiere showed Max dropping her off for preschool and Luna said 'Why isn't Mum here?' so presumably Helen meant a lot to Luna, not just Max. And after that a "five year old" doesn't ask about her mum that disappeared at all?

[bros402]

2 hours ago, LexieLily said:

Out of everything Luna's ambivalence about Helen doesn't make sense. The premiere showed Max dropping her off for preschool and Luna said 'Why isn't Mum here?' so presumably Helen meant a lot to Luna, not just Max. And after that a "five year old" doesn't ask about her mum that disappeared at all?

yeah, it's just ridiculous. I bet if Max brings Wilder home, Luna won't even mention Sharpe in any way (not even a "are you going to be my mommy? my last mommy left" or something similar) 

[Leeds]

On a lighter note, did anyone else want to see Iggy try to get up gracefully from that very low curb?

[SnarkySheep]

On 11/1/2022 at 11:26 PM, LexieLily said:

I'm not sure what point the Bloom/Reynolds abortion storyline was supposed to be making. From what I remember from season one they weren't exactly a one-night stand but weren't committed and serious, either. It was entirely Lauren's decision and Lauren's call, for sure, but at the same time Reynolds is allowed to have feelings about it, Bloom. What was gained by telling him five years after the fact?

Seemed to me like it was just to highlight how inconsequential Bloom thought it was, that it was just a medical procedure involving her body and nothing more.

But given all of last season's drama with Reynolds and that baby, you'd think Bloom would realize that yes, Reynolds would in fact care about a potential child, even if it were conceived not in the best circumstances.

On 11/5/2022 at 12:57 AM, bros402 said:

The Kapoor: Most Missed Character (Dead? Written Off? Everyone who is no longer on qualifies!)

He could've gotten a little shout-out at the very least, given the subject matter...maybe Ella stops by (I have no idea, is she still working in that coffee shop? They don't show her) with her child and says she might have had an abortion if Kapoor had not stepped in to help, etc.

It would be on topic yet have a little different spin than the other stories, and be a nice little reminder about what a sweet guy Kapoor was.

[bros402]

48 minutes ago, SnarkySheep said:

He could've gotten a little shout-out at the very least, given the subject matter...maybe Ella stops by (I have no idea, is she still working in that coffee shop? They don't show her) with her child and says she might have had an abortion if Kapoor had not stepped in to help, etc.

It would be on topic yet have a little different spin than the other stories, and be a nice little reminder about what a sweet guy Kapoor was.

I believe when Kapoor died, she inherited money and no long had to work?

[possibilities]

I suspect someone from the network mandated that they have a character who was sincerely against abortion in any circumstances, even if it meant her own death. It's the whole "both sides are sincere" idea, which networks tend to favor. I also would have liked to see something about women who wanted an abortion, but in NYS they could have had one, so for New Amsterdam to show that would have meant either a flashback or an episode in another state. I think the flashback would have worked, but here we are.

I am impressed that the show is pretty consistently great at making me enjoy scenes with children. Max and Luna, Iggy, Martin, and their kids, even many of the patients. That is not something I usually think shows do well, and often it just irritates the hell out of me. So kudos, show!

I liked that Karen was so strongly represented in this episode. Women of her generation were the ones who feel this the most deeply, because they lived it and they fought for legalization, and they have seen the horrors first hand. Other people get it to some extent, but it's really hard to beat the first hand experience of something when it comes to having PTSD about it. I knew her "carte blanche!" declaration wouldn't hold, but if they were going to have her temporarily lose her mooring in any episode, this was a good use of that device.

I also appreciated having Martin bring up the decision's warning about repealing marriage. The terror people are feeling is not only about abortion, it was a shot across the bough at a much larger principle or rights in general, and that is another reason people were so shell-shocked by it. Even though many of us saw it coming, I don't think even the bulk of the most prepared among us expected it to be as broad as it turned out to be.

I actually liked that the men were as strongly advocating as the women in this episode. It's rare to see allies on any issue who are as upset as the people who are being targeted directly. I also actually loved that Lauren didn't give a damn about Floyd's feelings. When do we ever get to see someone talk about her abortion without any kind of apology or trauma over having had it, and without thinking it was anybody's business. If they had still been close, maybe she would have told him. But at the time, she had bigger problems and he was very distracted with his own stuff and she was avoiding him. For her to act like she could go to him would have been out of character, and the abortion truly wasn't a big deal to her, so she didn't need his help, either. I also like that she thought it was insulting that he seemed to be saying that he didn't want a family with her, so the fact that she had an abortion would have been somehow something he had any right to have feelings about. HE TOLD HER HE DIDN'T WANT A FAMILY WITH HER. So of course she aborted the embryo. What would he expect her to do? For that matter, he didn't express concern for how it felt to her, until she pointed out that he was making it all about him. He never said: I'm sorry I wasn't there for you. He acted like she owed him something, when he was at the time and then today also acting like it was all about him and her feelings weren't even on his radar.

 

 

There has for a long time been  a shortage of doctors who are trained and willing to perform abortions, even before the Roe overturn. I liked that Max decided that was something he could do. I didn't get that he was implying it was something he could learn in two seconds, but honestly it'snot that complicated a thing to learn, though I don't know what the licensing rules are (f he'd have to be ab OB/GYN or if just any surgical qualification would bee allowed). Even among doctors who don't object in principle to abortions, there are many who won't do it because of how many violent threats they get and the threats to made against their family members. The security needed has been very intense and people have been harmed.

[bros402]

2 hours ago, possibilities said:

There has for a long time been  a shortage of doctors who are trained and willing to perform abortions, even before the Roe overturn. I liked that Max decided that was something he could do. I didn't get that he was implying it was something he could learn in two seconds, but honestly it'snot that complicated a thing to learn, though I don't know what the licensing rules are (f he'd have to be ab OB/GYN or if just any surgical qualification would bee allowed). Even among doctors who don't object in principle to abortions, there are many who won't do it because of how many violent threats they get and the threats to made against their family members. The security needed has been very intense and people have been harmed.

It looks like in NY, doctors and advanced care practitioners can perform an abortion as long as it is within their scope of practice.