S02.E04: In the Sandbox

[Blackie]

On 11/23/2022 at 4:08 PM, Verovee said:

Yes- in fact the actress who plays Portia crocheted the hat she was wearing with that cutoff jersey. She is styling the character herself and says she is intentionally picking trendy pieces that don’t go well together. 
I will try to find the interview where she says this and post in the media thread. 
l don’t like her style for the most part but don’t find it quite as hideous as some of you do. 

I don't mind her tops (except the last one looked like an oversize rugby shirt until I saw it was a crop) and I like her hat and jewelry  and hair and make up.  But the cuff off mom shorts? Yuk and her shoes ? yuk yuk

On 11/23/2022 at 4:08 PM, Verovee said:

she was wearing with that cutoff jersey

haha I just went back and read this, so it was a rugby jersey cut off🤣 

[violetwaves]

On 11/21/2022 at 12:23 PM, DrSpaceman73 said:

Of course she doesn't say it explicitly.  No man or woman ever says it like that.  

But she makes it pretty clear without explicitly saying it.   

Albie has to literally be told everything with women. He is getting oral sex and is asking the woman .....in the middle of the process.....if he can orgasm. 

Yes she is rude to him for using him  As her back up play if nothing better is available.  But I wouldn't fault her for not specifically telling him that.  He is in his mid 20s at least. Read the room albie.  

This absolves Portia of her at best rude, at worst cruel behavior. What an odd take.

and just for the record…yes, you should let your partner know, especially if they’re a new partner, if you want to orgasm in their mouth BEFORE you do it and you should abso-freaking-lutely be sure they are enthusiastically ok with that.

im a middle aged woman who isn’t huge on this whole explicitly asking for consent for every sex act but you’re damn right if bodily fluids are going to be exchanged there needs to be permission asked. That is what a man with experience and integrity does.

[jeansheridan]

On 11/22/2022 at 7:01 PM, AG921 said:

I completely agree with this. I know I gave off lots of "mixed signals" when I was younger because I was honestly too scared to be direct. It can be easier to just try to say the right thing to keep others happy and then take the first easy way out. I'm rooting for Portia! And I find her new hookup friend extremely attractive. I totally get the appeal! Ha!

You guys are kinder than me but I recognize this is the very annoying behavior of many young people, women especially. But just like young men like Albie are learning the language and habits of consent, maybe young women can work on being more direct and less "nice". 

I still do love that Portia appears to be super chill around Albie's family and all the tension. And that she offered to pay for her lunch. 

[violetwaves]

On 11/25/2022 at 7:00 PM, Joimiaroxeu said:

Portia is awful. Poor Albie.

Sex in a church. What could possibly go wrong?

Yeah, I too don't get Ethan protecting the bro code over his marriage. What's Cameron got on him?

Now I'm wondering if perhaps Isabella is lowkey working Valentina. (Or if she's eventually going get her salad tossed by Valentina, ha ha.)

Was Albie a virgin? Who passes out from a blow job?

I think it was one of my favorites. There was a lot of incisive character development.

Wait, what? 🤯

Some people use "Viagra" as a generic term and its competitor Cialis is a yellow tablet.

Re the comments about Portia's fashion sense--or lack thereof--a number of her outfits are on the Worn on TV site. That usually means a) the clothing is or recently was available for purchase at known stores; or, b) viewers have expressed an interest in buying the clothes; and/or, c) it's deliberate product placement on behalf of a vendor or designer to help drive sales. Look-see here.

I refuse to believe anyone would want anything that Portia have a wearing at all. The only time she looked decent was the night she hooked up with the Essex guy. Every single piece of her wardrobe is distractingly hideous to include her hair, jewelry and make up.

[Blackie]

On 11/21/2022 at 12:47 AM, jeansheridan said:

I don't think Mike White roots for anyone as a writer. He shows us a world of flawed people and let's them interact. I think it's one of the more challenging aspects to his writing

I think his writing of characters is very good, very realistic, almost too good. I thought last season all the characters seem quite real, but so real they were boring.And I didn't really find "rich people are jerks" as a newsfash. Flawed people interacting is basically real life, I don't necessarily want to watch a series about it.

This season, to me, there seems like a little more mystery about each character. Very good writing of characters but it does seem very challenging because I a lot of people find this season as boring as I found season 1.

[nlkm9]

On 11/21/2022 at 11:55 AM, DrSpaceman73 said:

I don't see it as mixed signals. Albie is her back up. If something better comes along she goes for it.  If not well albie will do ok. 

And albie seems too inexperienced and too ignorant to catch onto that fact. 

I say mixed signals. And why do they have her dressing in such bizarre outfits?

[peachmangosteen]

8 hours ago, jeansheridan said:

... maybe young women can work on being more direct and less "nice".

We're mostly still worried about being killed and assaulted lol.

I'll be the lone dissenter, I like Portia's wardrobe.

[jeansheridan]

26 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

We're mostly still worried about being killed and assaulted lol.

I'll be the lone dissenter, I like Portia's wardrobe.

You know you are right.  That's why Harper being surrounded by those men on the street was so threatening to me. And why I appreciate Valentina's BACK OFF energy at the coffee place. 

I don't like Portia's clothes but they don't seem that weird to me  for a recent college grad on a working vacation.  Clearly her boss doesn't mind. 

I think the actress is good at playing mildly depressed. She is a bit whiney too but shrug. I found the two college girls last season unbearable.

One thing, Lucia, Mia, and Portia (doesn't that sound like a musical trio) are all the same age but I appreciate that Lucia especially is really sharp and working hard. She's another economically challenged person who wants her own business (like last season spa worker). She wants control of her life. Same with Mia but Mia seems a little less focused. Lucia has the hustle. But of course she's in a dangerous profession. So far her three customers have been seemingly non-violent. Cameron was an ass but wasn't violent. 

I don't know if White will address this. Just like last season I wonder if a middle aged man is the right person to explore the dangers of sex work and a twentysomething woman navigating sexual relationships between two very different men. I wish once again White had a bigger writing room. He has total control of this world. Other than Jennifer Coolige apparently.  Someone said she ad-libs a lot.

[DrSpaceman73]

1 hour ago, nlkm9 said:

I say mixed signals. And why do they have her dressing in such bizarre outfits?

I think her outfits are a sign she just doesn't fit in at that hotel and environment.  She isn't rich. Or worldly. She is the help and ameeican.  And out of place 

[roughing it]

Portia brought clothes as a working assistant expecting no social interaction with anyone. She is not attracted to Albie so these unflattering clothes also work in that regard. She is not dressing to impress or encourage him in any way. That may change with the new exciting nephew.

[carrps]

Exciting and nephew are words that don't go together for me. 

[roughing it]

Well, exciting in Portia’s eyes anyway.

[Samsnee]

Ugh why don’t couples just communicate? Clearly your wife knows something is up and you weren’t the one actually cheating so just fess up. 

[Irlandesa]

12 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I'll be the lone dissenter, I like Portia's wardrobe.

I don't love everything she wears but I do like some of the colorful and unique pieces she has.  It feels more personalized vs. following some trend a stylists provides.

[smartymarty]

14 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I don't love everything she wears but I do like some of the colorful and unique pieces she has.  It feels more personalized vs. following some trend a stylists provides.

Same. Not my style (I go for practical clothes) but I find her clothes interesting. That they are not run-of-the-mill suggests to me that she is meant to be showing style. Very surprised so many here hate her outfits.

[tennisgurl]

Harpers utter glee over the state of Daphne and Cameron's marriage was a bad look. Their marriage clearly is not the perfect one they act like it is, but they act least seem to actually like being around each other, and you get the idea that they both knew what they were getting into together. Harper came off as both very petty in how thrilled she was to learn that their marriage was "a lie" and very insecure in her own marriage. Like she needs this other marriage to be awful so that hers will look better in comparison, even though she and Ethan clearly have a ton of issues of their own. It seems like shed really needs to drag other people down to validate herself, its exhausting. I also felt bad for Daphne, telling her how she has so few female friends because they always talked shit about her, and then Harper talked a massive amount of shit about her, which Ethan called out. 

Ethan is a terrible liar. The bro code is not worth your marriage, especially when it involves Cameron. 

[izabella]

1 hour ago, smartymarty said:

Same. Not my style (I go for practical clothes) but I find her clothes interesting. That they are not run-of-the-mill suggests to me that she is meant to be showing style. Very surprised so many here hate her outfits.

I feel the same way.  Her character is awkward, and feels awkward in this setting, and I think her clothes reflect that.  She has some trendy and interesting pieces, but she wears them paired with the wrong things.  I see her as a young woman who is still figuring out her own style, on a small budget.  She's very pretty, but she doesn't know how to dress herself yet.  I am always amused by her wardrobe.

[LuvMyShows]

On 11/23/2022 at 7:03 AM, Baltimore Betty said:

Valentina is acting like a love sick puppy with Isabella, buying an expensive brooch for her, gushing over her, this is not the same Valentina we met at first, no tough as nails woman we saw cut a man off at the knees so she could have a cup of coffee in peace...where'd she go?  

On 11/23/2022 at 9:53 AM, Rebecca berkowit said:

There were a couple of things in this episode that seemed like abrupt transitions to me to move the story along without sufficient setup.  This one with the gay guys, and also the thing with Valentina suddenly being super stalky and into her employee.  Not that either plotline couldn’t  happen, but they don’t seem well set up in light of what has come before.  So it makes me think there’s something up there, especially with the gay guys.  

....or that it's just bad writing, or editing.

On 11/21/2022 at 8:30 AM, jeansheridan said:

Because once again we have an entitled character, Harper, who advocates for corporate women, but has seemingly ignored these two very obvious women. Or maybe she will see them and we will have an uncomfortable lunch discussion but it will be all theory. 

Not sure that I believe that on Harper's vacation in a foreign country, she is obligated to insert herself in the private lives of prostitutes that she encounters, simply because of her career choice.

On 11/21/2022 at 10:10 AM, Traveller519 said:

Lucia's epiphany regarding her future comes after being shorted.

Surprised no one has mentioned anything about Cameron not having enough money to pay Lucia. I would imagine Mike White wrote it in for a reason.  It could go along with the theory that they don't really have that much money...but yet Daphne arranges for the clearly-expensive evening at the palazzo.

On 11/21/2022 at 11:52 AM, CarpeFelis said:

And she let a golden opportunity slip right through her fingers. Instead of asking Valentina if she could play, she should have waited until Valentina left and then just sat down at the piano and started playing. We’ve already seen she’s a better singer so she certainly wouldn’t have gotten any complaints from the guests. And then maybe Valentina would be more open to letting her fill in.

You beat me to it!  It actually was inconsistent with how brazen she was about making the opportunity to sing the previous night.

[jeansheridan]

2 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

Not sure that I believe that on Harper's vacation in a foreign country, she is obligated to insert herself in the private lives of prostitutes that she encounters, simply because of her career choice.

I meant I am surprised she hasn't commented about them to her companions. I wouldn't expect her to talk to them unless something bad happened right in front of her. And even then she should probably get a staff member. 

[shapeshifter]

On 11/28/2022 at 4:00 PM, izabella said:

I feel the same way.  Her character is awkward, and feels awkward in this setting, and I think her clothes reflect that

I like a lot of Portia’s style choices——at least I find them visually interesting in an almost artistic way, but even if I didn’t, I keep wondering if Portia’s wardrobe is just supposed to differentiate her from both the prostitutes and the wealthier guests.

Portia doesn’t have the money to spend on current high fashion, so she goes for Boho Chic rather than Current Cheap, which says she thinks she is better than others of her same means.

Lucia could probably have made her way to LA by now if she didn’t spend most of her clients’ money on clothes——clothes that just seem to serve to advertise that she is an expensive prostitute. Lucia spends money on her wardrobe much like a gambler who never gets ahead.

Meanwhile, I guess Tanya’s wardrobe in part makes her a mark for gold diggers——although through 2 seasons we’ve yet to see anyone strike it rich at Tanya’s expense. 

Harper was shown in one lovely dress that diverged from all the fashion failures of the White Lotus series, but I don’t think it signified anything related to the narrative. 
Sometimes a dress is just a dress.

[jeansheridan]

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Harper was shown in one lovely dress that diverged from all the fashion failures of the White Lotus series, but I don’t think it signified anything related to the narrative. 
Sometimes a dress is just a dress.

In my opinion Harper hasn't looked comfortable in any of her clothes although I loved the dress Daphne bought her. Harper doesn't seem at ease vacationing period.

Daphne is the only character who seems utterly at home. And the grandfather! Daphne looks the way I suspect Tonya believes she looks like. The long flowing hair, easy dresses, etc. 

I think Jennifer Coolidge in RL is very much like Dolly Parton. She knows she's over the top but owns it with such ease it is easy to just enjoy her. 

[AstridM]

On 11/21/2022 at 1:23 PM, DrSpaceman73 said:

Of course she doesn't say it explicitly.  No man or woman ever says it like that.  

But she makes it pretty clear without explicitly saying it.   

Albie has to literally be told everything with women. He is getting oral sex and is asking the woman .....in the middle of the process.....if he can orgasm. 

Yes she is rude to him for using him  As her back up play if nothing better is available.  But I wouldn't fault her for not specifically telling him that.  He is in his mid 20s at least. Read the room albie.  

He asked for a reason that we women appreciate. . . 🤦‍♀️

On 12/4/2022 at 7:59 AM, shapeshifter said:

Portia doesn’t have the money to spend on current high fashion, so she goes for Boho Chic rather than Current Cheap, which says she thinks she is better than others of her same means.

Huh?

[PurpleTentacle]

That dick we and Aubrey Plaza saw on Theo James in episode one does not fit in Durex condoms, even if they are the biggest blue ones with 60mm nominal width (which the packaging looked too small for). So it would make perfect sense that she'd think that only her husband could have used it. Bad show, for leaving bad clues.

Of course the gays love Jennifer Coolidge. Art imitating life.

[SlovakPrincess]

Dominic needs to accept his marriage is over and just hope his estranged wife stops hating him and the kids forgive him.

Ethan and Harper are both maddeningly passive.  Harper should've just confronted Ethan in the moment rather than assuming.  I think Harper senses Ethan's general ambivalence and thus needs the reassurance that other couples aren't better than them, but these two still don't communicate well.

Portia's time in Sicily has been "soul crushing"?  Really, Portia?  Yes, Tanya is difficult, but so far Portia's gotten a paid trip to Sicily, gotten free sight-seeing tours with Albie's family, and had at least 50% of her time to do as she pleases.

I don't trust Quentin, getting Tanya to tell him her entire life story and that she's alone at the resort with only her clueless assistant.  

I don't know why Mia thought a hotel lounge singer was going to help her with her career.  This is not a knock on working musicians, but how does she think he'll be able to help her?

"I put on fresh underwear for ya."  Um, sexy, I guess?  LOL.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 11/21/2022 at 8:10 AM, WatcherUatl10 said:

The one thing that didn't ring true for me, though, was Mia not knowing that Viagra is blue. EVERYONE knows that. It was in their ads.

The patent expired in 2015 and the generic version is widely available:

On 11/23/2022 at 9:13 AM, Rebecca berkowit said:

Generic Viagra isn’t blue.  Don’t ask me how I know that.  It definitely is a tablet, though, not a capsule.  But these girls aren’t supposed to be super bright or knowledgeable about medicine.  

On 11/25/2022 at 8:00 PM, Joimiaroxeu said:

Some people use "Viagra" as a generic term and its competitor Cialis is a yellow tablet.

However:

On 11/21/2022 at 8:30 AM, jeansheridan said:

I am glad Mia mentioned she was freaked out from coming off the drugs.

So if she took Ecstasy last night, wouldn't she know which pill was which?

On 11/21/2022 at 11:52 AM, CarpeFelis said:

Mia is so dumb! As AzureOwl pointed out upthread, if Giuseppe could actually help her with connections he wouldn’t just be playing piano in a bar himself. And she let a golden opportunity slip right through her fingers. Instead of asking Valentina if she could play, she should have waited until Valentina left and then just sat down at the piano and started playing. We’ve already seen she’s a better singer so she certainly wouldn’t have gotten any complaints from the guests. And then maybe Valentina would be more open to letting her fill in.

On 12/2/2022 at 8:17 PM, LuvMyShows said:

You beat me to it!  It actually was inconsistent with how brazen she was about making the opportunity to sing the previous night.

I was wondering why she didn't do that (just start playing after Valentina left) also.

As to connections, maybe her dream would be fulfilled if Giuseppe simply found her a position in another piano bar.

On 11/23/2022 at 10:06 AM, shapeshifter said:

Has anyone read in an interview whether Portia's clothes are supposed to be hideous? 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/10/style/white-lotus-costumes-portia.html

 

[blackwing]

On 11/20/2022 at 10:47 PM, chocolatine said:

Anyone else think that Tom Hollander's character has a nefarious motive regarding Tanya? He singled her out for a compliment even though there are many more attractive and better dressed women at that hotel. Then he told her that story about Isola Bella and the woman who ended up dead.

I thought the nephew told Portia that his uncle collects these rich hags.  It seems to me that Quentin is just going to use Tonya to fund his lifestyle.  And Tonya is so desperate for attention that she will completely fall for it.

Why didn't Mia just get closer to Lucia, or make Lucia come out of the water to her?  There's a reason why she went all the way from their room down to the beach to ask... because she didn't know the difference.  One of the pills was Viagra, the other was some kind of drug.  Mia seemed to understand the issue with confusing the two pills but then didn't take the final step to actually get confirmation.  Dumb.

Why are these two women still at the hotel?  If Dominic has decided he is done with them, why didn't he deactivate their room keys?  As it is, it seems they are charging everything (drinks, food, clothes from the hotel shop) to him.

I also find it odd that Nonno, Dominic and Albie have three individual hotel rooms.  Why wouldn't they book a suite that has multiple bedrooms?  I get that Dominic cheats on his wife a lot so maybe that's why he wanted his own room.  But there's no reason why Albie and Nonno couldn't have either shared a room or a suite.  I think the sister was supposed to go too until she and the mom both dropped out.  Was the sister going to have her own room too?  4 rooms for 5 family members?  Seems excessive.

Like many of you I found myself supremely annoyed at Harper's passive aggressive behaviour.  She should have just said to Ethan "I found THIS on the couch, care to explain".  At the same time, Ethan clearly knows that Harper is upset about something, he asked her, but she won't say anything.  Surely he knows that she thinks he is lying.

[Jordan Baker]

I am late to this show. I resubscribed to HBO when "Succession" Season 4 started, but I forgot to look for other HBO shows of interest. Duh.

I watched the first episode of Season 2 and thought that most of the characters were kind of awful. I wasn't sure I'd watch the rest, but I recently started the episodes up again. To my surprise, I find, like many of you, that I'm enjoying this season more than the last. Yes, Season 1 had Murray Bartlett, and no one quite stands out in this season the way he did in the first. Still, the scenery is stunning, and the mystery of who's zooming who is keeping me very entertained.

Plus, Tom Hollander! I know he's been in a ton of things, but he'll always be Mr. Collins in "Pride and Prejudice" to me. He's terrific in everything.

After the first episode, I thought Harper was humorless and controlling. And, well, she still is to some extent, but I've grown fond of her. Plus, I love her wardrobe, even if it isn't all that resort-friendly. 

I have no idea what's going to happen in the next three episodes. I do hope the ending is more satisfying than the Season 1 ending, but that's probably wishful thinking.

[carrps]

1 hour ago, Jordan Baker said:

Plus, Tom Hollander! I know he's been in a ton of things, but he'll always be Mr. Collins in "Pride and Prejudice" to me. He's terrific in everything.

He'll always be the guy eating jam in the kitchen with Sophie Thompson in  Gosford Park for me. He was very sympathetic, also, a bit pathetic.