Fandom and Viewer Issues: "Fan" Is Short for "Fanatic"

[Serena]

1 hour ago, Curio said:

The thing I don't understand is how the SQ fandom has gotten as large and as vocal as it has, and why the show's creators and actors treat their fandom with the same significance as the other True Love couples.

I think it's simple: neither Emma nor Regina had a real love interest in season 1, and Regina was literally the only person Emma interacted with in season 1 that was not (biologically) related to her. Lots of people engage in fandom by shipping and SQ was basically the only option (other than Snowing, which had lots of fans in S1, but they were always going to end up together so it wasn't as much fun to "root" for them in a shipping sense). Now, in my humble opinion the absolutely best chemistry Emma had in S1 (and amongst the best in the whole show) was with Jefferson, but shipping is about personal preference after all. 

To that, you have to add the general desire of Regina fans to have her be treated as a good guy - and being loved by the main heroine is the ultimate acknowledgement of that, after all.

[sharky]

Yea, there have been a few thing with Lana and SQ fanfic that I've found problematic. She quoted explicit SQ fanfic at a con, which somehow made her fans happy. Then she also posted a snapchat with a copy of an explicit SQ fanfic that an author made into a book with same story and just different names. I mean, isn't this all a classic form of queer baiting that's being brushed off because Lana fans won't criticize things Lana does?

Also, I'm an old school fanfic writer, but I feel there is a definite line between fanfic and the show and actors. We don't hand them copies of our stories, they don't read them or acknowledge them. 

And Lana's encouraging just makes me cringe anyway and reminds me of a Sherlock promo event when the moderator had Benedict Cimberbatch and Martin Freeman read Johnlock smut out loud. Don't do that to the actors and don't do that to the fans.

[Curio]

Is anyone considering going to one of the upcoming conventions? I'm debating either going to Chicago or Vancouver, but knowing the kind of blasé questions that get asked during the panels, I don't know if it's worth the price. The photo ops would be pretty neat, but is it really worth the travel expense...

[daxx]

I'm saving for Vancouver, I want the set tour. If I can't get that I'll change course to Burbank and try for a meet and greet with either Colin or JMo.

[Curio]

7 minutes ago, daxx said:

I'm saving for Vancouver, I want the set tour. 

The set tour is something I'd actually spend money on. Plus, I've already been to Chicago many times, so Vancouver would be a fun vacation. (It's technically not even Chicago, just a suburb.) It would be pretty cool to get a few of us PTV peeps together at a con, though. We could rock a bunch of TS;TW shirts and confuse everyone.

[TheGreenKnight]

11 hours ago, RedKeep said:

I mean, I have my issues with the vocal online SQ fanbase and the way those involved with the show have dealt with them, but I do understand the desire not to paint everyone who likes the SQ idea with the same brush and I understand wanting to acknowledge them as part of one's fanbase as well. In the case of OUAT, there have definitely been cases of baiting and that's on those who - intentionally or not - did reach out in such a questionable manner. But I believe there have also been examples of fans reading more into mere acknowledgement, either because they desperately want to believe a member of the cast/crew is on their side or because they'd rather have cast/crew reject certain ideas and the fans that come with them as a whole.

I'll be honest that I haven't entrenched myself in this fandom to a great extent for all the obvious reasons, but, yes, the generalizations are what I find bizarre. All SQ fans think the relationship is actually possible within the show, all SQ fans bullied and harassed various cast members, all SQ fans play the victim, all SQ shippers are entitled, etc. I think it's all quite a reach, personally. And then it transitions into OTT statements like Lana is supportive of bullies/queerbaiting. Why not just throw in adultery, rape, and murder while we're at it? There are vocal and crazy members of every section of the fandom--apparently.

[Rumsy4]

29 minutes ago, TheGreenKnight said:

And then it transitions into OTT statements like Lana is supportive of bullies/queerbaiting. Why not just throw in adultery, rape, and murder while we're at it? There are vocal and crazy members of every section of the fandom--apparently.

Now this is reaching. Just because some people find some of Lana's behavior questionable doesn't mean they/we think she is capable of all kinds of evil acts. People can't like everyone. I can understand you dislike reading negative things people say about Lana, but  I feel you are projecting more into it because you don't like it. 

There is a difference between saying Lana and Jen must be gay because SQ is totally canon/shipping Colifer, and saying people think Lana queerbaits her fans. Like it or not, the first two examples are when fans can't tell the difference between fantasy and reality. The last example is just an opinion--justified or not. It doesn't mean people think Lana and Regina are the same.

Edited August 31, 2016 by Rumsy4

[TheGreenKnight]

I don't think I'm projecting that much into it. I mean, it's hard to really tell any thread on the forum apart from all the whining about Regina, so it's not really surprising that this thread is full of whining about Lana. And it isn't too different from those evil, unnamed SQers who imply Jennifer Morrison is homophobic because she won't acknowledge them.

[Stuffy]

Y'all are going around in circles. Nobody is going to convince the other of anything, so maybe it's time to move on.  

[evagreenbean]

11 hours ago, Stuffy said:

Y'all are going around in circles. Nobody is going to convince the other of anything, so maybe it's time to move on.  

Agreed. There are some things I want to say, but it's better to just leave it.

[Eolivet]

On 8/31/2016 at 11:21 AM, Rumsy4 said:

I blame Adam. It's Adam's desire to appease all fans that has led to most of this entitled attitude, IMO. He is desperate to be liked, and he engages with the haters the most, becasue he wants to convince them to like him.

Is it "desire to appease all fans?" Because I've always read it as "desire to be seen as progressive and open-minded." Without any evidence whatsoever, I'm guessing Adam was raised to be fairly tolerant, and has always considered himself to be kind to people from all walks of life. So, being told he's homophobic and is queerbaiting and is offending portions of the audience is devastating to him, because he's never seen himself that way. So, he tries to overcorrect -- making it clear that he is open and tolerant to shippers of all couples, and treating the largest same-sex ship the same as the largest heterosexual ship. Because he's progressive and open-minded, darn it!

Again, I have no evidence of this -- but it seems he just cannot fathom that someone (or a group of people) would ever put him in the same category as, say, the Westboro Baptist churchgoers. So, he goes out of his way to prove he's not. And how he does this is by continually engaging with the fans who don't agree with him. Because then he can say to himself "I listened, I responded, I did a good thing" and can go to sleep at night, convinced he is every bit as progressive and open-minded as he has always thought himself to be.

[Shanna Marie]

6 hours ago, Eolivet said:

Is it "desire to appease all fans?" Because I've always read it as "desire to be seen as progressive and open-minded."

He's apparently rather thin-skinned about everything. He can't deal with people not liking him or his work. His response either tends to be to try to shut out the possibility of criticism (like blackballing reviewers he thinks are too critical of his show) or try to appease the people criticizing him.

[janett snakehole]

Tumblr drama of the moment is the use of the word *porn* in conjunction with Snow as a fandom joke. A cs gifset was made that used a joke like that and apparently that is "cultural appropriation" because there is a popular joke/meme referencing Ginny in the sq fandom to the effect of "Snow says it's porn." I guess that meme was in response to Ginny tweeting an answer to "Do Regina and Emma ever make out?" with something like "Check cable, this isn't Once Upon a Time in My Pants." This happened a few years ago, and Ginny followed up after receiving back lack and accusations of homophobia that she was talking about Regina being Emma's step grandmother. 

Now, I am not part of the sq fandom and I am not part of a wlw community, so I realize that I am not a voice that has authority about lgbtq issues, but I think this is silly. One fandom, whether it be wlw or not, does not a marginalized community make. I think it's possible to take or borrow jokes from other fandoms, that's a huge part of tumblr and how memes are often created, so it's not specific to the ouat fandom or slash fandoms, but I don't see how that could be considered cultural appropriation unless the joke came from the broader lgbtq community and had a history past one tweet and the response it caused in one fandom. 

I think that social justice and fandom can and do intersect, as fandom is made up of people that belong to marginalized groups and fandom is influenced by and reflective of the real world, but I think there is a line where claims like this become more about policing fandoms that you do not like rather than defense against bigotry or appropriation. Fandom is participatory, being a member of a marginalized group is not. 

[sharky]

The problem is the Ginny thing was from years ago, and this particular gif set that is being bitched about was made months ago, so I have no idea why this is all being brought up now. There are some SQers who are complaining that the gif set in question is stealing their inside joke about Snow White to which all I can hear in my head is Michael Scott saying "I like inside jokes. I hope to be a part of one some day." By its very nature, an inside joke is one people outside of the inside don't know, so how can this be someone taking an SQ inside joke and claiming for their own CS fandom when the whole point is the joke was inside? 

[YaddaYadda]

18 minutes ago, sharky said:

The problem is the Ginny thing was from years ago, and this particular gif set that is being bitched about was made months ago, so I have no idea why this is all being brought up now.

It's still hiatus and people have nothing better to do? Instead of complaining about the show since I think they complained about everything under the sun, this is the new thing. It will be something else in a week, and another one the following week, and then everyone will lose their collective shit over something Adam says, then the first episode will air, and we will all find something to complain about.

Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

[Rumsy4]

The gifset in question doesn't use that phrase "Snow says it's porn" at all. Apparently, CS gifs are not even allowed to use the word porn in context with Snow or CS. Literally people with nothing better to do than stir up trouble.

[janett snakehole]

It's not even that people are complaining about it, because it's not a big deal if people get annoyed by stuff that happens in fandom, it's the holier than though posts about it and the condescending nature of it that annoyed me. If something bothers you and you want to talk about it, go for it, as long as you're not being abusive or maliciously targeting others, but does everything need to be couched in terms of privilege and appropriation and connections to social justice movements? Some things are just silly tumblr jokes that happen to use the word porn. There isn't a larger cultural context to everything single thing that goes on in fandom. 

[Souris]

That porn business is one of the stupidest things I have ever seen in the Once fandom -- and that is saying something! Nope, sorry, one fandom does not own usage of the word "porn" in relation to one character. I actually saw one SQer compare it to Delta cutting out all the lesbian kisses from "Carol." I mean, seriously? 

Plus, nobody in the CS fandom even knew it was an SQ "thing" to start with! Utterly contrived offense.

[Altair Aquila]

Twitter is swimming with Colifer shippers these days, some of whom are often in Colin and Jen's mentions suggesting they do this or that. More and more of them are being particularly snide about Colin's wife as well. A lot of them seem to think Colin doesn't really like Sean Maguire either? Where has that come from?

http://ohmydonoghue.tumblr.com/post/149913710638/tinhats

I've seen posts from people who won't watch Colin's other roles where he's kissing other women, and I think it's one thing to say you're not interested in a film's subject matter as a whole, but because he's kissing someone other than Jen?

Edited September 4, 2016 by Altair Aquila

[Rumsy4]

Man, that's nuts. There are moments when I've wondered/wished why Kate and Leo aren't together. But that's the extent of my real life shipping. This borders on creepy obsession. I only hope these people don't actually tweet Colin or Jen, and simply stay in their Twitter bubble. 

[YaddaYadda]

What a bitch! She doesn't want her/their private life spread out on the internet. How dare she value her privacy? 

[maryle]

I have to defend the only actress that I really feels is not enough value in Once fandom and the aftermath of the all Porn silly drama.

Because Ginny G. seem to be the main cast that everyone always forget or take for granted but when I look at her career and the current direction for it. She definitely could be the real winner in the long term. I mean just the zoo Disney film were she is a star made her more rich and famous than any other of her co star probably.

Adding that it could be a sequel of it so I am not worry for her after Once but people talk much more of Josh than her even when talking about snowing or Emma relationship. 

So, after I learned that some b a use  has been use a non context answered from Ginny to insult her and call her homophobe without any evidence. Cause of all this she withdraw from social media. And, I honestly understand her and any actor who have their world  twist. So, they can use them against the actor or for winning some agenda.

So Ginny I still love your Evil Snow and miss Snow!

[Eolivet]

Eh, real person shipping I think always causes more outrage than it's worth. And I honestly think the game has changed because studios have now realized it's a valuable marketing tool (look at Kristen Stewart and Rob Pattinson). When studios are actively encouraging it to make money, I really cannot blame fans for buying into it -- even if that particular couple isn't being promoted as such. It's just so rampant now.

I don't think fans should tweet actors about it, because it's rude to ask anyone about the state of their marriage. But I have no problem with what that fan did. She didn't tag the actors -- she just posted her speculation, as a random fan on the Internet. O'Donoghue is a public figure. But his wife is not going to lose job opportunities, friends, or her reputation if random people on the Internet think her husband is having an affair with his co-star.

I suppose I look at real person shipping the way others look at religion. It's about faith, or lack thereof. Some fans are convinced actors are faithful to their spouses. Others are convinced actors are getting it on with their co-workers in the trailer between takes. There's nothing that says that either is right...or wrong. If O'Donoghue and his wife are married for 50 years or break up next week, we'll still never know unless there's third-party proof (video/audio, witnesses, evidence, etc.). I'm actually convinced public figures have three personas: character, actor-who-plays-the-character, and their true private life.  It's probably why many international actors' spouses stay overseas. Then there is a real separation of job and family.

tl; dr. They're all playing characters anyway, and we will never really know their private lives or the strength of their marriages.  So I personally find getting worked up over it to be mostly a waste of time.

[sharky]

I just can't agree with it. It goes with this bigger issue of actors being able to have private lives. I know that with things like Twitter, actors and creators invite fans more into their personal lives, but for some fans, that seems to give them the idea that they can disrespect boundaries and these human beings' private lives away from the show or the cons or the publicity tours. And this goes beyond just this Colifer nonsense. There are SQers who speculate about JMo and Lana's personal lives as well -- oh, Lana's husband is just a beard because Lana and JMo are lesbians or whatever. I get that maybe people feel they can speculate because Snow White and Prince Charming got married in real life, but that still doesn't make it right.

And frankly, I feel it does a disservice to women in general and JMo in particular. Just because she's a single woman doesn't mean she has to have a romantic relationship with her male co-star. There are plenty of strong smart women in the workforce who can keep their hands off their male co-workers. Imagine being someone who a female lead on a TV show in a business dominated by men and have people speculate about whether you're sleeping with your married co-star instead of, you know, supporting you for being a strong actor.

As for the Hollywood trend, it's one thing to promote a show or movie because the co-stars are romantically involved, but that's at all the case with this situation.

[Eolivet]

I suppose I don't see talking on Twitter and using the names "Colin" and "Jen" as disrespecting boundaries. I mean, unless fans showing up at their houses or demanding the two actors kiss at conventions. But I personally am sick of celebrities being given most favored nation status, when they are public figures whose standards for defamation are completely different than those of a private citizen.

As for Morrison...I've never seen evidence that real person shipping harms the careers of actors. I've never seen it brought up in an interview (unless the actors are pretending to date/are dating), never heard reports of it contributing to actors being passed over for TV or movie roles. I've never heard of real person shipping breaking up marriages. If Natalie Abrams starts printing real person shipping theories, then I'll talk about how it's harmful.

And Hollywood uses real person ships to promote shows or movies all the time now. The co-stars don't even have to be romantically involved -- they just need to create the narrative that they might be. I saw David Duchovny and Gillian Anderson hang all over each other last year. I also saw X-Files become last year's #2 rated show. Not saying there's a correlation, but it's clearly part of marketing. I'm scrolling through pictures of the two stars of "Poldark" looking cozy on the red carpet together, when I'm fairly certain they're not dating either. I'm almost positive the two stars of "Outlander" have faked an off-air relationship on Twitter and in the press. I've seen Alicia Viklander conveniently appearing socially with her co-star of the moment. And yes, Goodwin and Dallas' marriage doesn't help.

I'll save my ire for the Hollywood machine, who has decided that real person shipping will sell more product. They've monetized (and normalized) the behavior and made it so fans have come to expect it. So, I can't blame a woman who seems to have clear relationship issues for using it as a form of self-therapy. Unless she's going to go stalk the actors or tweet her theories at them, I don't think the actors will ever see it, nor will they care.

[maryle]

I have my personal boundary that is not shipping at all. For me it mean not caring about any personal actor life at all. I am not even sure if I know everything about my own relationship or of my parents so I will certainly not care for life of stranger. Because at the end of days all these actors are stranger to me even in Josh and Ginny case I do not know except they have two son together but that it.

Someone talked about the Outlander case and that one is really interesting and for the all shipping real person debate.

I  do believe that Cait( the two star of the show) did play with the idea of them as be real close (I do believe it was conscious) but at a point both star (more Cautious.B.) became annoying with all the gossip about them. So, they did multiple denying  that they are anything more than friend.

There even a even a video! I saw it and it is kind of embarrassing because so intrusive for both of them. Anyway, when actors are really bother by it they will do like Sam and Cait. But, it will not stop people from shipping them in the Outlander fandom it is a war zone since the video. 

Personally I really miss when I knew nothing about the personal life of any actors. I must be the exception in that regard. There another  thing that amuse me with the Outlander fandom is the fact that Sam also have Gai gossip about him. 

[Souris]

I think real-people shipping is a bad idea and it makes me super-uncomfortable. But it also makes me super-uncomfortable for that person on tumblr to call out and make a case study of one specific shipper, too. People will feel and do what they want, but neither behavior is particularly cool in my book.

The fact is, we don't know any of these actors or what their lives and situations are really like. And, frankly, it's none of our damn business. Heaven knows it's an actual industry for people to gossip and speculate about celebrities, but anything we believe about them or their reality is simply head-canon. Fans who hold the same head-canons, whatever they are, tend to reinforce them among each other.

I can't pretend I don't feel some of that nosy, titillated interest at times, but I try not to get too invested in my ideas about any celeb, lest it come crashing down on my head. Like, I want to believe that all my fave celebs are awesome people, but I don't know that for a fact; chances are, not all of them are. Heck, people we actually know can do things that shock us, let alone some celebrity we see a few minutes on TV once a week and a bit on social media.

I wish nobody would get too invested in their views of celebrities and what they think is going on in private. I also wish I would win the lottery. I doubt either will happen!

[Rumsy4]

16 minutes ago, Souris said:

I think real-people shipping is a bad idea and it makes me super-uncomfortable. But it also makes me super-uncomfortable for that person on tumblr to call out and make a case study of one specific shipper, too. People will feel and do what they want, but neither behavior is particularly cool in my book.

I agree--there was no need to call out that one person openly, as in this instance, they had not tagged Jen or Colin. At the very least, their Twitter handle should have been blacked out. 

[Rumsy4]

Thinking some more on this, I think there's a bit of idealization involved in defending actors vigorously as well. After all, actors are human beings too. So, maybe it's best not to get too invested either way. 

[Serena]

"Call outs" are creepy. What is this "call out" and "receipts" culture that has developed lately? It has to do with the need to feel morally superior, I supposed. But it seems that people seek out things to be offended by. Like, I use Twitter pretty often (Tumblr less so these days) and I have effortlessly managed to avoid Colifer shippers. How? I don't follow any and I don't search for the word "Colifer". Pretty simple.

[profdanglais]

I can understand how easy it is to get carried away as a fan. Many years ago I had a huge crush on a married actor, and actually found myself having daydreams about his wife dying. My own brain horrified me. Thank goodness there was no fandom or twittersphere or tumbler fan groups to fuel my fire or normalise what I was thinking and I was able to get over it. I never, ever want to feel that way again. It is absolutely essential in this world where social media allows us to feel like we know people we have never met, that we set and maintain boundaries, and respect the boundaries that celebrities set. It's not an easy thing to do when you find strangers' private lives fascinating (as I confess I still do) but without boundaries you get this sort of icky, invasive behaviour. 

[Camera One]

Quote

 

Thank goodness there was no fandom or twittersphere or tumbler fan groups to fuel my fire or normalise what I was thinking. It is absolutely essential in this world where social media allows us to feel like we know people we have never met

Well said.  Social media has really created an illusion of closeness with celebrities.  In the past, even photos were scarce and one would have to wait for a magazine to feature that actor, or wait for the occasional interview on TV.  Communicating directly or writing a message that a celebrity would actually see or read was virtually impossible.  Today's immediacy is much more conducive to crossing boundaries and expectations of reciprocity.

Edited September 5, 2016 by Camera One

[evagreenbean]

have any of you seen that delusional tumblr post about jen stans being neo-Nazi worshippers because we like jen. ( jen is blonde. we're Nazis because we like her and she happens to be blonde. 2+2=5.)

it also comments on Jen's background and family life, that she's apparently privileged and got a lot of opportunities... how pathetic can you get: commentating on another person's career like you know anything about them besides what you've read on Wikipedia??

and then it goes on to say that she's a 'pr nightmare' and was kicked off house... which is just bullshit.

how can people be so cruel to insult someone so deeply, someone they don't know at all by making such mean, false allegations?

And then there is someone tweeting colin about how awful his fans are and degrading him on their Twitter account. 

I can honestly not believe this fandom anymore.

[Serena]

I'm gonna heavily suggest people distance themselves and stop checking what the SQ fandom does for at least the next month. The season premiere + AfterEllen shutting down will have them in full meltdown mode, so spare yourself the trouble.

Edited September 21, 2016 by Serena

[mjgchick]

I'm a black Haitian American and has been a fan of Jen since House. I guess I'm a Neo-Nazi as well? 

 

Hail Hydra.

 

AfterEllen was a trash website that only pandered to a certain LGBTQ+Women demography. I'm still not over how they made a WoC's death about the white woman who was doing brown face and wore an ugly bindi.

Edited September 21, 2016 by mjgchick

[sharky]

Sounds like some outlying Negative Nancys. I just can't with some of these moronic trolls anymore. 

[Serena]

27 minutes ago, sharky said:

Sounds like some outlying Negative Nancys. I just can't with some of these moronic trolls anymore. 

Yeah, I think that's it, a few people who say outrageous things to upset people. Honestly, going to look at what they're saying and responding with how offended you are is just playing their game. Ignore, block, etc. and live your life.

[evagreenbean]

2 hours ago, Serena said:

Yeah, I think that's it, a few people who say outrageous things to upset people. Honestly, going to look at what they're saying and responding with how offended you are is just playing their game. Ignore, block, etc. and live your life.

Yeah, I don't want to even bother anymore. 

Although, most of the time I find out about fandom nonsense through my friends ranting on Twitter or Tumblr or tag invasions. And sometimes I do a little digging but it just makes me angry so it is better to just let it go.

I guess that means it's time for a long social media hiatus. It's not worth getting upset over anymore, some people just love the attention and refuse to believe they are wrong in any way.

Edited September 21, 2016 by evagreenbean

[mjgchick]

This is not a political thread, and talk about the election does not belong here.

Edited September 22, 2016 by MostlyC
Wrong thread to discuss politics.

[KingOfHearts]

Just got to get it off my chest - why do people who call Hook a rapist usually support Regina, a confirmed rapist? I don't understand how you can accuse one character of implications while defending another who we saw actually did it onscreen. I'm not saying Hook never ever did anything like that (or did), but their line of thinking doesn't make much sense to me.

People usually either hate Regina or Hook. It's pretty interesting.

Edited September 22, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Mari]

I think it's a combination of things.

Lots of people have trouble internalizing the idea that a woman can rape a man or teenager.  It's especially hard for them to grasp if the woman in question is beautiful, as Parilla (and therefore Regina) is.  Just take a look at sentencing for female perpetrators with male victims.  (The show team seems to fall into that category.)

Most people don't think this way, but there is a small group of people that just hate men, particularly ones that are sexually assertive or flirtatious.  (Note:  there is a difference between being flirtatious and harassing or intimidating someone.  I shouldn't have to put the disclaimer, but, well...)  

There's also a group that desperately wants Regina and Emma together, which makes Hook the enemy.  (There are probably some that go the iluvHooksoihate Regina, too.)

[KAOS Agent]

ln a lighter moment for fandom, I am vastly amused that the Goodyear blimp is using Twitter to let us know that it's keeping up with Captain Swan. Maybe it's aiming for a cameo as it reunites with its long lost love, the airship from the Land of Untold Stories.

[InsertWordHere]

I live about 15 miles from the home of the Goodyear blimp so I'm pretty tickled by this. 

[mjgchick]

What about those whose hated Regina since they found out not only was she raping someone but she tortured a 10 yr old over a dumb ass secret that led to her mom killing the love of her life...and loved Hook since he first appeared?

[RedKeep]

We all tend to be more forgiving or more willing to see certain layers of complexity in the motivation and development of characters we like or at least care about, much in the same vein we're more likely to pick up or focus on the flaws of characters we genuinely don't like for whatever reason. Personally, I don't either love or hate both Hook and Regina, but that definitely seems to be a minority opinion since the fandom does give you the impression that you have to pick a side and if you like one of them you automatically have to dislike the other. It's fairly hard for me to relate to, but I've also been in online fandoms long enough to know that it's a fairly common dynamic, especially once shipping interests come to play a major part in how a show is viewed and discussed. And this show is relaying very heavily on that by now, for some characters more than for others.

[Curio]

16 minutes ago, RedKeep said:

the fandom does give you the impression that you have to pick a side and if you like one of them you automatically have to dislike the other.

I feel the same about Hook and Rumple. There's a large vocal part of the fandom that makes it seem like if you like Rumple you have to hate Hook, and vice versa. But I like both characters a lot for different reasons, and I enjoy watching the two actors play off each other. It's impossible to like every single character on a TV show, and it's natural to gravitate toward only having a few favorites, but the Once fandom takes it to the next level by having a flow chart of who you can like based on who your favorites are.

Edited September 23, 2016 by Curio

[TheGreenKnight]

On ‎9‎/‎22‎/‎2016 at 11:33 AM, KingOfHearts said:

Just got to get it off my chest - why do people who call Hook a rapist usually support Regina, a confirmed rapist? I don't understand how you can accuse one character of implications while defending another who we saw actually did it onscreen. I'm not saying Hook never ever did anything like that (or did), but their line of thinking doesn't make much sense to me.

People usually either hate Regina or Hook. It's pretty interesting.

I think it’s more a case that the Regina character is often heavily criticized by CS shippers and it’s a way to call them hypocrites. I don’t mind Hook, but I can see why Regina fans or SQ fans would do that considering how obnoxious most CS fans are.

[Curio]

On September 22, 2016 at 0:33 PM, KingOfHearts said:

Just got to get it off my chest - why do people who call Hook a rapist usually support Regina, a confirmed rapist? I don't understand how you can accuse one character of implications while defending another who we saw actually did it onscreen.

It's called psychological projection. (Also known as the "I know you are, but what am I?" tactic, or the "Donald Trump's Campaign Strategy" tactic.) A fandom will take specific attacks against their favorite character or pairing and project that legitimate critique onto another fandom or character, even if the critique doesn't even apply to that other fandom. It's a way to mentally forget about certain undesirable qualities that exist within their favorite characters. 

[Eolivet]

http://blindgossip.com/?p=81035#comments

Yikes. Timely, given the above discussion.

[Mathius]

On 9/23/2016 at 1:48 PM, TheGreenKnight said:

 I can see why Regina fans or SQ fans would do that considering how obnoxious most CS fans are.

SQ fans have the least justification to call any other fanbase "obnoxious".  Sorry not sorry.

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I feel the same about Hook and Rumple. There's a large vocal part of the fandom that makes it seem like if you like Rumple you have to hate Hook, and vice versa. But I like both characters a lot for different reasons, and I enjoy watching the two actors play off each other.

Same here, although I think the reasoning behind these two fandoms is different.  Hook fans who hate Rumple hate him for all the torture Rumple has put Hook through, which is somewhat legitimate, but I fall more along the lines of people who love to hate Rumple since he makes a great villain - or he did, anyway, I think he's run his course at this point.   Rumple fans who hate Hook, meanwhile, tend to be the ones who try to pretend he isn't a villain and is justified in everything that he does, and use Hook as a scapegoat because he was mean to Rumple on board his ship that one time.

Edited September 27, 2016 by Mathius