S06.E02: Change of Perspective

[bros402]

On their first day as surgical attendings, Dr. Murphy and Dr. Park meet the residents they will be overseeing; Lim returns to work while facing her new reality and the emotions surrounding the changes.

[bros402]

So uh this episode was a bit annoying.

First off with the guy at the start of the episode giving a sort of look of pity/"how inspirational" look towards Lim when she got the wheelchair in and everything. Then at the end, he just opens her door without permission and gets stuff out? wtf dude! Is he going to end up being a lawyer who helps Lim sue Shaun for malpractice?

So I didn't really get a good look at the wheel, but I didn't see anything that looked like the wheel controls (at least nothing like the controls I saw when I was learning to drive and the regular car was taken, so I had to drive the hand controlled car - which still allowed foot control).

I'm a mixture of happy/annoyed that they skipped over the OT/PT Lim needed after the surgery - on one hand, they don't get to milk her improving and being like "oh dr lim you're so inspirational!" but on the other, they just go straight into "wow lim you did so well!!"

You think they would have an operating table that is wheelchair accessible, seeing as 3.1% of doctors are disabled, with 28.4% of those having mobility disabilities, and 15.7% having multiple disabilities.

The pig plot was just ridiculous - they would never have the surgeons extract the pig heart in the OR, they aren't vets.

[Annber03]

"That was inappropriate."

"It was."

LOL, my thoughts exactly. "Hey, so this guy got in a motorcycle accident and just died, his heart's available!" "Yaaaaaay!" I mean, yes, good the guy got a heart in time, but...:p. I did like the old cranky guy connecting with the pig. I'm glad it seems like it'll have a good home now. But yes, I too was wondering about how likely it would be for them to just bring a pig into a hospital like that and prep them to be part of a surgery :p. 

Jordan and the new guy have a cute back and forth, I'd like to see where that goes. It'd be a nice unexpected change from the assumption that Morgan and the new guy would hit it off  -  and I wonder if Park's attitude towards her wasn't partly due to him watching them interact and feeling a bit jealous, even if there was no reason to feel that way. I'm glad Andrews called Park and Morgan out on their sniping at each other, though I'm pretty sure this won't be the last time they'll be at odds. 

As for Lim, my job is clearly getting to me, 'cause when they were talking about how long she'd been off work at the beginning, all I could think about was how her FMLA paperwork would look :p. I'm not surprised she'd be frustrated over her struggle, and I wonder if and how that'll impact her interactions with Shaun going forward. And I also wonder how long it'll take before Shaun loses that high of being able to take charge and give orders, both in regards to everything with Lim and in general. 

I do like Glassman trying to talk to Lim about how to deal with the fact that you may not be able to do your job like you used to. It'd be nice to see them interact more as she works through everything. And I hope we get to see more of her and Villanueva interacting, too. 

[thuganomics85]

Sounded like there was a throwaway line from Asher about how they officially don't know what caused Lim's paralyzation, but it certainly sounds like both Jordan and Lim herself blame Shaun for what happened.  Not quite sure what to make of this development.  It might actually be kind of interesting if Shaun's decision really was the reason for it and see how that effects him having to live with that going forward (not to mention what that would mean for their relationship), but I just don't see this show willingly to take that risk.  So, my best guess it that eventually there will somehow be proof that he really wasn't the reason for it and Lim will have to walk it all back.  Kind of sucks for her, but I don't see them wanting to make Shaun/their lead character in the wrong like that, so I worry that Lim is going to become some kind of temporary antagonist for him.  Hope I'm proven wrong.  At least Christina Chang is acting the hell out of it like I thought she would.

Now that Shaun and Park are officially attending surgeons now, it's time for more newbies!  Obviously can't remember their names quite yet, so as of this moment they will be simply known as Vegan Solider Lady and Hot Doc!  Vegan Solider Lady works with Shaun and almost gets fired due to her beliefs not allowing her to work the surgery with him, but then Shaun comes around to using this as an opportunity to "mentor" her instead.  Granted, she was kind of right in the sense that everyone was fine with just simply taking a pig's heart and using it when they though it was frozen, but once they realized they had to cut into poor Wilbur himself, everyone's opinions kind of changed about that plan!  Luckily for them, some guy in a motorcycle accident was kind enough to die and be a donor, so Wilbur lives!

As for Hot Doc, he's... well, hot, but actually knows what he's doing as well, so he's got that going for him!  Oh, and Jordan's totally crushing on him as well!

Glad Andrews read both Park and Reznick the riot act, because their sniping was already getting annoying.  Doubt it will last though.  Still put more blame on Park here since I really can't figure out why he ended things: especially since it looks like she's sticking around after-all.

Hope Glassman's sudden back injury isn't a sign for something worse to come down the line. 

[greekmom]

I hate the fact that Asher and Jordan were gossiping about Murphy and Lim. Who knows if the stabbing wasn't the issue in contributing to Lim's paralysis. She too is blaming Shaun when she should be blaming the nurse's violent ex husband and the fact he stabbed her severely.
The new doctor - Powell is interesting. She has people skills but her take on animal rights should create conflict as it already has. Wonder what else she is against and why she became a doctor.
Plot contrivance that Wilbur got saved at the last minute.  Did Powell the vegan doctor realize that if Wilbur wasn't used he would eventually be euthanized because he was genetically altered?? Was she going to make room in her home for the pig if the lonely old man didn't connect with him? 

Update. Forgot to add this thought re: Lim.  Doesn't Lim also realize or been told that there was only 1 piece of some medical equipment that was up for grabs for either herself or the violent ex.  Shaun advocated for Lim to get the equipment while the other doctors advocated for the the ex and they can do Lim's operation manually.  I think they said something like it's going to be tricky but it can be done and they were struggling with it as well.  That probably also contributed to the fact that she can't walk.  I also noticed that the nurse that Lim helped has some sort of guilt of what happened to Lim.  I still blame the violent ex more than Shaun.
 

Edited October 11, 2022 by greekmom
forgot to add.

[marcee]

Lim knows she shouldn't be blaming Shaun; that's why she publicly thanked him. Logically, she knows he saved her life. Logically, she knows he did the best he could. But emotionally, she blames him. She can't help it. Not to mention the dozens of 'what ifs' - that the show seems to be covering in the next episode. We're all on Shaun's side because we love Shaun (and Lim does too) - but Lim can't help blaming the surgeon who ultimately paralyzed her.

[circumvent]

11 hours ago, bros402 said:

I'm a mixture of happy/annoyed that they skipped over the OT/PT Lim needed after the surgery - on one hand, they don't get to milk her improving and being like "oh dr lim you're so inspirational!" but on the other, they just go straight into "wow lim you did so well!!"

The bold part: which is inspirational in itself. Full disclosure: haven't watched it yet

11 hours ago, bros402 said:

You think they would have an operating table that is wheelchair accessible,

I expect all the bad things to happen. I assist someone who needs help moving around and gyn has no accessible tables despite the place being new and "state of the art"

6 hours ago, greekmom said:

She too is blaming Shaun when she should be blaming the nurse's violent ex husband and the fact he stabbed her severely.

I don't mind that so much, if it is without context. People who go through trauma do blame others that have little to do with the causes. Problem with TV shows is that they write such things in a soap-opera-ish way, just for unnecessary (over) dramatic scenes, and not as part of a whole arc of emotions. Obviously, Shaun will figure out a way for her to walk again and then all the trauma is forgotten. 

[possibilities]

It's completely enraging that they framed Lim and everybody else at the hospital as having NO CLUE that using a lower table she could operate on would be (1) easy, (2) a reasonable accommodation. No one at the hospital knows anything about the ADA? Or adaptive tech? No one consulted any other wheelchair-users about what to do? 

Even what's his name, Schiff's character, framed it as Lim could force the rest of the team to sit down because she's Chief of Surgery, not because it's a reasonable accommodation.

They have taken this approach to all disability related issues throughout the show. People with disabilities are accommodated because someone feels like it, and that person is a generous hero, and is not just exercising basic decency and/or doing it because it's a law and they have to do it whether they like it or not and it's normal, standard procedure to make the hospital work for disabled people. It's "special" and "heartwarming".

This feeds the belief in the real world that any kind of accommodation is charity, and optional, and makes the person receiving it into a burden, rather than it's a basic civil right and if you don't do it you're a shitty person and a criminal who ought to be prosecuted for illegal discrimination.

Of all people, HOSPITALS and REHAB FACILITIES ESPECIALLY, should have known better, and Lim should have some contact with other wheelchair users, but apparently she, like Shaun, thinks she has nothing in common with anyone else with a disability, and I guess that no one else there thought it would be a good idea to research how other surgeons operate, and instead they just wing it with someone on the operating table all opened up, and treat it as Andrew being skeptical and Lim being naive. Great problem-solving, you assholes! 

Edited October 11, 2022 by possibilities

[circumvent]

21 minutes ago, possibilities said:

but apparently she, like Shaun, thinks she has nothing in common with anyone else with a disability, and I guess that no one else there thought it would be a good idea to research how other surgeons operate, and instead they just wing it with someone on the operating table all opened up, and treat it as Andrew being skeptical and Lim being naive

She doesn't think she has anything in common with other disabled people because she is "not like those people". That's the mentality. She will "overcome" this because she is special and she fights harder to "succeed". The usual bullshit. Accommodations would make her a normal disabled person but she is, at the same time, special and a burden, so she will not make anyone change anything to accommodate her. She, alone, will make this work. 

Inspiration porn 101

[KaveDweller]

13 hours ago, greekmom said:

Plot contrivance that Wilbur got saved at the last minute.  Did Powell the vegan doctor realize that if Wilbur wasn't used he would eventually be euthanized because he was genetically altered?? Was she going to make room in her home for the pig if the lonely old man didn't connect with him? 

She may not have realized that. But I don't think any of them realized a live pig was actually going to be brought to the hospital (which seems unsanitary). They thought the pig would be killed first and they'd just get a heart. Her not participating was symbolic, it wasn't that she thought she would be saving it.

But didn't they already do the moral objection thing when someone refused to perform an abortion?

It sounds like they did a review and couldn't determine the official cause

18 hours ago, bros402 said:

First off with the guy at the start of the episode giving a sort of look of pity/"how inspirational" look towards Lim when she got the wheelchair in and everything. Then at the end, he just opens her door without permission and gets stuff out? wtf dude! Is he going to end up being a lawyer who helps Lim sue Shaun for malpractice?

Spoiler

I wonder if a malpractice lawsuit will be the "legal trouble" they use to launch the lawyer spinoff. They said they were introducing a character by bringing her in as a lawyer for Shaun, and then she'd have her own show the following year. I'm guessing that will be a more lighthearted case though......

It sounds like they did a whole review and didn't determine Shaun did anything wrong, but Lim must have gotten all the details and she still blames him a little. I wonder if they will stick to that.

Regarding Lim's car. I would imagine she would need to get a new car that has hand controls, so if you are doing that, wouldn't it make sense to get a car that is bigger and has more space for the chair? Or do all cars just have this problem?

[The Wild Sow]

13 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

Plot contrivance that Wilbur got saved at the last minute.  Did Powell the vegan doctor realize that if Wilbur wasn't used he would eventually be euthanized because he was genetically altered??

Why wouldn’t he just go back to whatever research facility he came from?  For the next person needing a xenotransplant? 

[rmontro]

18 hours ago, Annber03 said:

"That was inappropriate."

"It was."

LOL, my thoughts exactly. "Hey, so this guy got in a motorcycle accident and just died, his heart's available!" "Yaaaaaay!" I mean, yes, good the guy got a heart in time, but...:p.

It was inappropriate, but I caught myself applauding.  But I was applauding because the pig was saved.  Only then did I think "Oh, the guy got killed in a motorcycle accident".  Everything's a matter of perspective, isn't it?  I wonder if Wilbur was really going to be euthanized, or if they just told that to the hoarder guy to get him to take it.

From the looks of things, Morgan really is staying.  Might as well get her and Park back together or it's going to be a long season of bickering.

Wow, Lim is blaming Shaun for her being paralyzed, yikes that's liable to get ugly.

[bros402]

9 hours ago, possibilities said:

It's completely enraging that they framed Lim and everybody else at the hospital as having NO CLUE that using a lower table she could operate on would be (1) easy, (2) a reasonable accommodation. No one at the hospital knows anything about the ADA? Or adaptive tech? No one consulted any other wheelchair-users about what to do? 

Even what's his name, Schiff's character, framed it as Lim could force the rest of the team to sit down because she's Chief of Surgery, not because it's a reasonable accommodation.

They have taken this approach to all disability related issues throughout the show. People with disabilities are accommodated because someone feels like it, and that person is a generous hero, and is not just exercising basic decency and/or doing it because it's a law and they have to do it whether they like it or not and it's normal, standard procedure to make the hospital work for disabled people. It's "special" and "heartwarming".

This feeds the belief in the real world that any kind of accommodation is charity, and optional, and makes the person receiving it into a burden, rather than it's a basic civil right and if you don't do it you're a shitty person and a criminal who ought to be prosecuted for illegal discrimination.

Of all people, HOSPITALS and REHAB FACILITIES ESPECIALLY, should have known better, and Lim should have some contact with other wheelchair users, but apparently she, like Shaun, thinks she has nothing in common with anyone else with a disability, and I guess that no one else there thought it would be a good idea to research how other surgeons operate, and instead they just wing it with someone on the operating table all opened up, and treat it as Andrew being skeptical and Lim being naive. Great problem-solving, you assholes! 

yuuup and she got rehab at the hospital - you think that they would have tested different options for surgery before tossing Lim in an exoskeleton that with some paint would be almost worthy of Voltron

9 hours ago, circumvent said:

She doesn't think she has anything in common with other disabled people because she is "not like those people". That's the mentality. She will "overcome" this because she is special and she fights harder to "succeed". The usual bullshit. Accommodations would make her a normal disabled person but she is, at the same time, special and a burden, so she will not make anyone change anything to accommodate her. She, alone, will make this work. 

Inspiration porn 101

all of this.

I've known people who are like "i am not like these people" and they are so annoying. I fully expect Lim to get more annoying.

5 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

She may not have realized that. But I don't think any of them realized a live pig was actually going to be brought to the hospital (which seems unsanitary). They thought the pig would be killed first and they'd just get a heart. Her not participating was symbolic, it wasn't that she thought she would be saving it.

But didn't they already do the moral objection thing when someone refused to perform an abortion?

It sounds like they did a review and couldn't determine the official cause

  Reveal spoiler

I wonder if a malpractice lawsuit will be the "legal trouble" they use to launch the lawyer spinoff. They said they were introducing a character by bringing her in as a lawyer for Shaun, and then she'd have her own show the following year. I'm guessing that will be a more lighthearted case though......

It sounds like they did a whole review and didn't determine Shaun did anything wrong, but Lim must have gotten all the details and she still blames him a little. I wonder if they will stick to that.

Regarding Lim's car. I would imagine she would need to get a new car that has hand controls, so if you are doing that, wouldn't it make sense to get a car that is bigger and has more space for the chair? Or do all cars just have this problem?

No - hand controls can be installed in a pre-existing car (It varies based on cost + what is needed). However, she can no longer ride her motorcycle - so maybe she had to buy a car?

[circumvent]

The "big entrance" at the hospital was so theatrical, it was ridiculous. Applause, the whole staff stops to see the "doctor in a wheelchair" come back. Patients and visitors disappear, nothing else exists. This is not something that happens in places like hospitals. This is what happens backstage, before a performance, a pep talk of sorts. 

The pig story was ridiculous. They would walk with a live pig through the main entrance of a hospital to simply kill it and harvest the heart. Sorry, no No dramatic license because it is too far fetched. Wilbur was cute though.

While I can understand the objections of killing an animal, or considering unethical and cruel, and while I even share the sentiment, the new doctor was completely out of line. The arrogance of rebutting an observation with "sorry you feel this way" only shows how she doesn't even believe her arguments. This is something a person says when they have nothing to say.

I am also tired and annoyed by every show having a doctor that was in the military. And yes, she had no problem serving in a war of aggression where not only humans were murdered, but also  animals that she seems to love so much, but refuses to accept that she chose a profession that deals with ethical questions all the time. 

I already hate the character, let's see if they can make her better.

Lim having a tantrum with someone she doesn't seem to know was also ridiculous. It's been over three months since the accident and she worked so hard but had no therapy to deal with such change? also, no way she would already be (almost) mastering the wheelchair that fits in a small car. More realistically, she would be using a van or a bigger car, if that much. She is already an inspirational hero , people!

[Daff]

16 hours ago, possibilities said:

It's completely enraging that they framed Lim and everybody else at the hospital as having NO CLUE that using a lower table she could operate on would be (1) easy, (2) a reasonable accommodation. No one at the hospital knows anything about the ADA? Or adaptive tech? No one consulted any other wheelchair-users about what to do? 

Even what's his name, Schiff's character, framed it as Lim could force the rest of the team to sit down because she's Chief of Surgery, not because it's a reasonable accommodation.

They have taken this approach to all disability related issues throughout the show. People with disabilities are accommodated because someone feels like it, and that person is a generous hero, and is not just exercising basic decency and/or doing it because it's a law and they have to do it whether they like it or not and it's normal, standard procedure to make the hospital work for disabled people. It's "special" and "heartwarming".

This feeds the belief in the real world that any kind of accommodation is charity, and optional, and makes the person receiving it into a burden, rather than it's a basic civil right and if you don't do it you're a shitty person and a criminal who ought to be prosecuted for illegal discrimination.

Of all people, HOSPITALS and REHAB FACILITIES ESPECIALLY, should have known better, and Lim should have some contact with other wheelchair users, but apparently she, like Shaun, thinks she has nothing in common with anyone else with a disability, and I guess that no one else there thought it would be a good idea to research how other surgeons operate, and instead they just wing it with someone on the operating table all opened up, and treat it as Andrew being skeptical and Lim being naive. Great problem-solving, you assholes! 

I hear what you’re saying, point taken. However, both Lim and her PT caregivers thought they had the situation covered (with the adaptive standing support). It wasn’t until she actually attempted to operate with it that she discovered it was so physically taxing and uncomfortable as to disrupt her performance. In the end, I think it was a good display of everyone coming together, thinking outside the box to help her succeed. I don’t think the portrayals were that far removed from real life, whether recuperating from illness/surgery or learning to cope with a new disability. One step forward, two steps back, and roadblocks can’t always be anticipated until they’re encountered. It’s frustrating, getting through it, but as Glassy implied, she’ll be stronger for it. 

[circumvent]

30 minutes ago, Daff said:

In the end, I think it was a good display of everyone coming together, thinking outside the box to help her succeed.

But that's exactly why it is so hard to see progress in the disability field. The burden falls on disabled people and their friends, co-workers, families, while the system goes unchanged. It shouldn't be like this. Disabled people are as old as the human race, the fact that universal design is not the default only shows the failings of the system. It is the same with charitable organizations. They shouldn't exist, in the sense there should not be a need for them to exist. And this is true for every single basic need in a society - of inclusion, acceptance, of food, health care, housing, employment. The fact that so many need to rely on either charities or the good will of individuals proves to me that the human race is failing itself.

[izabella]

On 10/11/2022 at 12:28 AM, Annber03 said:

"That was inappropriate."

"It was."

LOL, my thoughts exactly. "Hey, so this guy got in a motorcycle accident and just died, his heart's available!" "Yaaaaaay!" I mean, yes, good the guy got a heart in time, but...:p.

I am signed up to be an organ donor, but honestly, all these medical shows really, really, really make me question my decision.  Doctors pressuring families into donating, the giddy glee when someone dies or might die, the hopeful doctors hanging around like vultures in hallways waiting for someone to be brain dead while the family is sobbing and still hopeful their loved one will survive, doctors doing questionable things to make sure THEIR patient gets the organ instead of whoever is actually next on the transplant list, even the way they call someone donor rather than a patient even before they've died in anticipation of harvesting their organs...yeah, I'm rethinking the whole thing.

[possibilities]

It's not reasonable to "think they handled it" with the standing contraption. It was shown that it didn't work. This says they didn't bother to actually test it in any meaningful way. It's a dangerous, high stakes situation, and they should have known it wouldn't work before they put her into that situation. Moreover, there should be data available on whether this is likely to work, and clearly no one explained her options to her, such as using a lower table, so when the one thing she tried didn't work, she thought it was hopeless.

People think disability was just invented yesterday and no one knows anything about it. This is untrue and it's inexcusable to represent it on TV in a way that reinforces this idea. The real lives of people are impacted by propaganda of this sort.

This is a small example of the attitude, but I was recently at a hospital for a medical test. I was an outpatient, but I had been there for hours because they were running behind at the lab. Eventually I needed to use the bathroom. The nurse told me that since my wheelchair wouldn't fit through the door of the bathroom off the waiting room, I would have to walk if I wanted to pee. I looked her in the eye and said: "There are no wheelchair accessible bathrooms around here? It's a hospital!" So then she thought about it and found out there was actually one down the hall. I mean... her instinct was to tell me to miraculously get out of my chair and walk, instead of the simple solution of finding out where the accessible bathroom is. Learned helplessness and absolutely callous and impractical thinking are rampant because people simply do not care enough to think things through and use available information.

At the same place, when I finally got into the lab, they needed me to get on the procedure table. They had asked me if I was able to do transfers and I said yes. But when I got there, the table was way too high-- mid-chest for a standing adult, above the shoulder for a sitting person. I told them they need to lower the table. They didn't know how to do that and told me they would just get a bunch of people to come in and lift me out of the chair and carry me. I said no, that's dangerous. Lower the table. They fiddled around and discovered the table has a button that raises and lowers it! But it was set up only for the convenience of a taller or shorter standing person, not a person transferring from a wheelchair, and did not go low enough. This is stupid! It's negligent. It is a design flaw that would be easily fixed if anyone even considered anyone might be a doctor or a patient that uses a chair. But we're not important to their thinking. 

Anyway, they then said they would get a gurney and I should transfer to that and the gurney raises and lowers so they would raise it to the height of the procedure table and I could transfer from the gurney to the table that way. I did that, but the gurney was on wheels so it was unstable, and it took several staff people to stand next to it and block it with their bodies so it wouldn't roll when I leaned on it. Again, this is stupid. There is zero reason not to have brakes on the casters. 

Last example for now: I needed an eye exam that required a machine. I called ahead to make sure the office I chose was wheelchair accessible. When I got there, the equipment used for the eye test was on a high table, so people could use it standing up. I asked them to lower it and they said they couldn't. I asked how they usually do this test for people who use wheelchairs. They said "We don't. We just tell them they can't get that test." I was fucking furious. First of all, I called ahead. 2nd of all, that's bluntly illegal as well as just flatly shitty and callous. You think people who use chairs don't have eyes? What the fuck? 3rd, it's absurdly lazy: either put the machine on a lower table and have everyone who does it do it sitting down, or get one of those tables that goes up and down-- they are easily available, and the previous times I've had the test, which is routine, it has always been done that way.

This show is reinforcing the idea that disabilities are mysterious and rare and hard to accommodate, and this kind of writing is making things worse. It's ironic, because it was promoted as a show that would provide a positive portrayal of an autistic surgeon. But it's actually reinforcing both ignorance and stereotypes.

Edited October 12, 2022 by possibilities

[KaveDweller]

16 hours ago, bros402 said:

No - hand controls can be installed in a pre-existing car (It varies based on cost + what is needed). However, she can no longer ride her motorcycle - so maybe she had to buy a car?

Good to know. But I forgot she had a motorcycle before, that must be hard for her.

But if she bought a car, I would still think she'd buy something bigger since it seemed like that wheel chair was particularly hard to fit. But I guess then she couldn't have her dramatic break down.

[possibilities]

It's also easier to get in and out of a car that's low to the ground. Though she could have gotten a van with a lift, I guess. 

[bros402]

19 hours ago, circumvent said:

The "big entrance" at the hospital was so theatrical, it was ridiculous. Applause, the whole staff stops to see the "doctor in a wheelchair" come back. Patients and visitors disappear, nothing else exists. This is not something that happens in places like hospitals. This is what happens backstage, before a performance, a pep talk of sorts. 

The pig story was ridiculous. They would walk with a live pig through the main entrance of a hospital to simply kill it and harvest the heart. Sorry, no No dramatic license because it is too far fetched. Wilbur was cute though.

While I can understand the objections of killing an animal, or considering unethical and cruel, and while I even share the sentiment, the new doctor was completely out of line. The arrogance of rebutting an observation with "sorry you feel this way" only shows how she doesn't even believe her arguments. This is something a person says when they have nothing to say.

I am also tired and annoyed by every show having a doctor that was in the military. And yes, she had no problem serving in a war of aggression where not only humans were murdered, but also  animals that she seems to love so much, but refuses to accept that she chose a profession that deals with ethical questions all the time. 

I already hate the character, let's see if they can make her better.

Lim having a tantrum with someone she doesn't seem to know was also ridiculous. It's been over three months since the accident and she worked so hard but had no therapy to deal with such change? also, no way she would already be (almost) mastering the wheelchair that fits in a small car. More realistically, she would be using a van or a bigger car, if that much. She is already an inspirational hero , people!

Okay - so I was half expecting them to do an honor walk for the pig and I would've laughed so hard if they had done it seriously.

Lim is so inspirational it got all over my TV

11 hours ago, possibilities said:

It's not reasonable to "think they handled it" with the standing contraption. It was shown that it didn't work. This says they didn't bother to actually test it in any meaningful way. It's a dangerous, high stakes situation, and they should have known it wouldn't work before they put her into that situation. Moreover, there should be data available on whether this is likely to work, and clearly no one explained her options to her, such as using a lower table, so when the one thing she tried didn't work, she thought it was hopeless.

People think disability was just invented yesterday and no one knows anything about it. This is untrue and it's inexcusable to represent it on TV in a way that reinforces this idea. The real lives of people are impacted by propaganda of this sort.

This is a small example of the attitude, but I was recently at a hospital for a medical test. I was an outpatient, but I had been there for hours because they were running behind at the lab. Eventually I needed to use the bathroom. The nurse told me that since my wheelchair wouldn't fit through the door of the bathroom off the waiting room, I would have to walk if I wanted to pee. I looked her in the eye and said: "There are no wheelchair accessible bathrooms around here? It's a hospital!" So then she thought about it and found out there was actually one down the hall. I mean... her instinct was to tell me to miraculously get out of my chair and walk, instead of the simple solution of finding out where the accessible bathroom is. Learned helplessness and absolutely callous and impractical thinking are rampant because people simply do not care enough to think things through and use available information.

At the same place, when I finally got into the lab, they needed me to get on the procedure table. They had asked me if I was able to do transfers and I said yes. But when I got there, the table was way too high-- mid-chest for a standing adult, above the shoulder for a sitting person. I told them they need to lower the table. They didn't know how to do that and told me they would just get a bunch of people to come in and lift me out of the chair and carry me. I said no, that's dangerous. Lower the table. They fiddled around and discovered the table has a button that raises and lowers it! But it was set up only for the convenience of a taller or shorter standing person, not a person transferring from a wheelchair, and did not go low enough. This is stupid! It's negligent. It is a design flaw that would be easily fixed if anyone even considered anyone might be a doctor or a patient that uses a chair. But we're not important to their thinking. 

Anyway, they then said they would get a gurney and I should transfer to that and the gurney raises and lowers so they would raise it to the height of the procedure table and I could transfer from the gurney to the table that way. I did that, but the gurney was on wheels so it was unstable, and it took several staff people to stand next to it and block it with their bodies so it wouldn't roll when I leaned on it. Again, this is stupid. There is zero reason not to have brakes on the casters. 

Last example for now: I needed an eye exam that required a machine. I called ahead to make sure the office I chose was wheelchair accessible. When I got there, the equipment used for the eye test was on a high table, so people could use it standing up. I asked them to lower it and they said they couldn't. I asked how they usually do this test for people who use wheelchairs. They said "We don't. We just tell them they can't get that test." I was fucking furious. First of all, I called ahead. 2nd of all, that's bluntly illegal as well as just flatly shitty and callous. You think people who use chairs don't have eyes? What the fuck? 3rd, it's absurdly lazy: either put the machine on a lower table and have everyone who does it do it sitting down, or get one of those tables that goes up and down-- they are easily available, and the previous times I've had the test, which is routine, it has always been done that way.

This show is reinforcing the idea that disabilities are mysterious and rare and hard to accommodate, and this kind of writing is making things worse. It's ironic, because it was promoted as a show that would provide a positive portrayal of an autistic surgeon. But it's actually reinforcing both ignorance and stereotypes.

Yuup - we're mysterious and unusual. I'm not a wheelchair user, but my doctor has everything at a height that seems like it would work for a wheelchair user.

 

[circumvent]

9 hours ago, possibilities said:

It's also easier to get in and out of a car that's low to the ground. Though she could have gotten a van with a lift, I guess. 

Yes, a car might be easier. I am just skeptical that someone that is just getting used to the wheelchair and to how her body now works would be so nimble after only a few months to become a "Push Girl"

[Daff]

23 hours ago, circumvent said:

while the system goes unchanged. It shouldn't be like this.

2 hours ago, circumvent said:

Yes, a car might be easier. I am just skeptical that someone that is just getting used to the wheelchair and to how her body now works would be so nimble after only a few months to become a "Push Girl"

12 hours ago, possibilities said:

It's also easier to get in and out of a car that's low to the ground. Though she could have gotten a van with a lift, I guess. 

I’m not sure what the “system” is to which you refer. The support system for those with disabilities would consist of family, friends,, co-workers, health care providers (in Lim’s case, overlapping) and a myriad of  other professionals-all human beings, with different levels of education, expertise, and experience. The fallacy is in thinking that “universal” adaptations would meet the individual needs of every disabled person. Even with all those professionals doing their best, they’re human and can’t be expected to anticipate every outcome. As in the general population, what works for one, doesn’t necessarily work for all. Even Lim, herself, believed the stand up chair would allow her to perform the surgery (SHE should have done the computer generated practice with it first, instead of boldly claiming she’d have no problem). 

I took issue with the whole portrayal of her so simply getting her body into her car-you could tell she wasn’t actually lifting her own legs using only upper body strength, as her torso and arms showed no strain. As a disabled, but valued professional, I’m sure she would have had no difficulty acquiring a lift van, subsidized in part, if not completely by taxpayer money. I don’t think any taxpayer would begrudge that kind of expenditure, either (when you consider the government waste-shrimp on a treadmill? really?). 

I’m sorry for the unfortunate experiences described here, but the “system” is comprised of human beings and as such, aren’t omniscient or infallible. And adaptive equipment isn’t one size fits all.  

[circumvent]

15 minutes ago, Daff said:

I’m not sure what the “system” is to which you refer.

Just a general term for the whole society and how it functions. People need other people but basic things should be part of everyday life for EVERYONE. That's what universal design proposes. all new buildings should have ramps and automatic doors, stop the flashing lights everywhere, reduce the extra noise, make accessible affordable homes at least optional for new buyers, outfit the sidewalks for all walkers. When people have to rely on things like charity, the relentless help of friends and family because everything is so hard to come by, this is a systemic problem that goes unresolved because the policy makers and their funders don't want to go the extra mile to make things better for ALL people. 

In the show, nurses had to stop doing the nurse work to try and change the table in the OR. If I am a patient needing assistance and that nurse is trying to solve tech/engineering problems that the hospital big wigs, for one, should be working on, I would be more than pissed

[possibilities]

It's damn hard to get the govt to pay for stuff. I don't know anyone who has a van paid for by taxpayer money. 

Lim no doubt has money because she's chief of surgery, but if you think the taxpayers don't begrudge people necessary things, I'm sorry to say that has not been my experience or that of anyone else I know.

[Nessa]

So now Shaun is a cardiothoracic surgeon?

[KaveDweller]

3 hours ago, possibilities said:

It's damn hard to get the govt to pay for stuff. I don't know anyone who has a van paid for by taxpayer money. 

Lim no doubt has money because she's chief of surgery, but if you think the taxpayers don't begrudge people necessary things, I'm sorry to say that has not been my experience or that of anyone else I know.

I agree, and it would be extra hard for Lim to get the government to pay for her stuff cause she probably makes a ton of money.

But luckily for Lim that means she can likely afford to buy her own van and other stuff.. She also probably has great insurance which must help with medical expenses.

[possibilities]

Low income people do not get vans paid for by the government. They do not give you everything you need. It's really annoying that people who don't actually depend on these programs have such inflated beliefs about how they actually work. 

[bros402]

8 hours ago, possibilities said:

It's damn hard to get the govt to pay for stuff. I don't know anyone who has a van paid for by taxpayer money. 

Lim no doubt has money because she's chief of surgery, but if you think the taxpayers don't begrudge people necessary things, I'm sorry to say that has not been my experience or that of anyone else I know.

I got 5k of drivers lessons paid for by the government

ended up not being able to drive in the end, but hey

[tennisgurl]

All things being fair, rats are pretty smart too. Not as smart as pigs, but still not exactly an empty vessel. I thought we would get more of a discussion of ethics in using animals in medicine, or even what animals we think its alright to experiment on and which animals we don't, that could have been interesting. I know he was in a different subplot, but I bet handsome farm boy would have an interesting perspective if his farm raised animals for food or products. 

I am not loving how they are handling Lim being in a wheelchair, especially because we all know that she will end up walking again. Or at least I suspect.

Edited October 14, 2022 by tennisgurl

[cinsays]

On 10/14/2022 at 4:54 PM, tennisgurl said:

All things being fair, rats are pretty smart too. Not as smart as pigs, but still not exactly an empty vessel. I thought we would get more of a discussion of ethics in using animals in medicine, or even what animals we think its alright to experiment on and which animals we don't, that could have been interesting. I know he was in a different subplot, but I bet handsome farm boy would have an interesting perspective if his farm raised animals for food or products. 

I am not loving how they are handling Lim being in a wheelchair, especially because we all know that she will end up walking again. Or at least I suspect.

yeah, wouldn't the new vegan doc have had to disect lab animals as part of her medical education?

[Granny58]

Thank you all for the interesting discussion of disabilities and accommodations.  I have learned a lot and will be more aware. 

[JH Lipton]

On 10/10/2022 at 11:52 PM, thuganomics85 said:

Granted, she was kind of right in the sense that everyone was fine with just simply taking a pig's heart and using it when they though it was frozen, but once they realized they had to cut into poor Wilbur himself, everyone's opinions kind of changed about that plan! 

I would think that the only time a live donor is in the ER would be for extremely time-critical transplants, which this was not.

I hated the way that they wimped out by the miraculous motorcycle accident.  

On 10/13/2022 at 6:10 AM, Daff said:

I don’t think any taxpayer would begrudge that kind of expenditure, either (when you consider the government waste-shrimp on a treadmill? really?). 

As others have said, there are those who would stop SNAP (the food stamp program) because it's better for 1000's to starve than 1 to "game the system" (unless they're a CEO).  See "welfare queen".

On 10/13/2022 at 6:31 AM, circumvent said:

outfit the sidewalks for all walkers.

It's a minor annoyance compared with the benefit for the blind or "hard of seeing", but I use a rolling walker from time to time and the "Braile Bumps" at sidewalk corner-ramps are bone-rattling.

[circumvent]

19 minutes ago, JH Lipton said:

As others have said, there are those who would stop SNAP (the food stamp program) because it's better for 1000's to starve than 1 to "game the system" (unless they're a CEO).  See "welfare queen".

Don't even get me started. Everything is "means tested" which meant very few get what they need. The government spent almost 100 Million dollars to create paperwork for student loan forgiveness, instead of just erase the debt of everyone. We (collectively) are pretty pathetic

22 minutes ago, JH Lipton said:

It's a minor annoyance compared with the benefit for the blind or "hard of seeing", but I use a rolling walker from time to time and the "Braile Bumps" at sidewalk corner-ramps are bone-rattling.

I am pretty sure there are minds out there who could solve this, maybe some already did. but going all the way, for everyone, it is "too hard"

[JH Lipton]

13 minutes ago, circumvent said:

Quote

It's a minor annoyance compared with the benefit for the blind or "hard of seeing", but I use a rolling walker from time to time and the "Braile Bumps" at sidewalk corner-ramps are bone-rattling.

I am pretty sure there are minds out there who could solve this, maybe some already did. but going all the way, for everyone, it is "too hard"

As I said, it's a pretty minor annoyance, and the bumps seem to work for those who need them, so I can get rattled or go around without that much inconvenience.

Edited October 18, 2022 by JH Lipton

[WinJet0819]

I really wish Morgan would leave. The fact that the snipes she and Park are having drawing the annoyance of Lim and Andrews is pathetic. This is not the crap I want to watching back and forth from a broken up couple. And it would be stupid to try to use this as a vehicle to force them back together.

There's also the elephant in the room that Morgan is NOT a surgeon anymore. So the fact she continues to present cases and tell actual surgeons what to do for a surgery just stretches belief. It's like after the writers decided to have her have the hand issues, they haven't figured out what to do with her character. They throw her with Park, put her in the clinic where every patient she seems to see has surgical issue, and now have her basically be surgeon who can't operate. It's getting stupid.

It's nice to get new interns. But it would be really nice if Daniel isn't just there to give Jordan a relationship. It'd be nice to actually get to learn more about him and see his character evolve.

And as others have said, the hospital should be ADA-compliant. How the hell do they not already have operating beds that can be raised or lowered? Lim shouldn't have to be doing all the leg- work (no pun intended) to find a solution that allows her to work effectively and efficiently.

And it's a safe bet that Lim's resentment of Shaun will lead to a lawsuit. And that's do to the fact that there's going to be a backdoor pilot for "The Good Lawyer" and the main character will be representing Shaun.

[Avabelle]

I like Morgan and I HATE the way that every other character in there looks down there nose on her but I agree they don’t seem to know what to do with her. I’d rather lose Park and keep her though. I find him to be a sanctimonious asshole and find his reasons for dumping her to be a massive cop out.

Not crazy on the new intern. She has a superiority to her that I don’t love in new characters. I am relieved Wilbur survived though.

Shouldnt a janitor have been doing the bed adjusting? I couldn’t help but feel the nurses probably would have had better things to do.

[Virtual]

Being on the realistic side, the only reason Shaun isn’t in any trouble yet is because of his rapport with the hospital. And it’s also realistic for Lim to hate her circumstances; I just hope she doesn’t go on blaming Shaun and hate him all season, especially since she was attending his wedding when she was attacked. I honestly think she’s just blaming him because she knows she inserted herself into Villeneuva’s life, so she knows she only has herself to blame there.

Edited October 28, 2022 by Virtual

[Verovee]

Wilbur was adorable. 
one (another) annoying thing was when Dani (seriously the two new ppl are Dan and Danica??) said she distinguished between rats and pigs when asked about drug tests. 
From what a dr friend in pharmaceutical development told me yes, drugs are first tested on rats, but that’s just stage one. I forget what stage two is - maybe rabbits. But all drugs go through a primate testing phase before being tested on a human sampling. How does Dani feel about monkeys?  Still better than pigs?  Just a dumb thing to have a doctor say.