S01.E07: The Eye

[JTMacc99]

Episode Synopsis:

Survivors of a cataclysm try to find safety; the Harfoots confront evil; Durin is torn between friendship and duty; Adar considers a new name.

Reminder: 

There is open air book talk here. If you are just watching the TV show and you don't want to stumble into any book talk you should leave now. Book Talk assumes you have read any of the related books or stories.

[Anduin]

Hell of an episode! It seems that the village was towards the tail end of the eruption, rather than as close as the last ep made it seem. But damn, balrog already? I'd have preferred to see it still sleeping, rather than awake.

Also, did this feel like a season finale? Like, people finish one journey and commit to the next one, what's left, to see them on this new journey? I really can't imagine what we'll see next week.

[Aulty]

That Balrog needs a good prescription of melatonin if it can be woken by a falling leaf.  It isn't the shuddering tale of waking a monster from the bowels of the earth I though it would be. I hope that this means the stranger isn't a balrog, not because it isn't consistent with JRR, but I feel it would be a big thing for a layman audience to accept.
The Mystic Dawn trio though, I am curious to learn what they are about.

I enjoyed to mood change with Elendil thinking he's lost his son. The scene were he set the horse free was very Aragorn and Brego.
Halbrand on the other hand ... one moment he is on his death bed with a festering wound, next he is galloping away with Galadriel?

[cambridgeguy]

So, I suppose now have the mystery of where has Celeborn been all this time.  POW?  Wandering the countryside?   Hanging out in the future Lothlorien?

Halbrand being the beloved king remains a ridiculously fast turn.  Where is all of this love and loyalty coming from?

[RobertDeSneero]

1 hour ago, cambridgeguy said:

So, I suppose now have the mystery of where has Celeborn been all this time.  POW?  Wandering the countryside?   Hanging out in the future Lothlorien?

This doesn't feel like a question that needs to be answered this season.  Or even next season.

[Harvey]

Not really my favorite episode. Some good scenes were in there, especially from Disa and Durin but overall the three storylines felt very disconnected and didn't really flow into each other. And the sheer amount of fake-out deaths was almost comical. I also still don't buy the Southlanders enthusiasm for Halbrand as their king. It is unearned.

The last episode is going to have to do a lot of heavy lifting to tie everything together because this one barely did anything for that. The Harfoot story at least seems to have somewhat completed its arc with them leaving their trail.

[Anduin]

1 hour ago, cambridgeguy said:

So, I suppose now have the mystery of where has Celeborn been all this time.  POW?  Wandering the countryside?   Hanging out in the future Lothlorien?

But he's dead! Galadriel actually said that in the episode. And Lord of the Rings having a fakeout death? No, that's absolutely not on. Okay, joking aside, he's never been on my top 20 list of favourite characters. We'll see him sooner or later. For now we don't need more characters to follow.

What's with Malva? She's been completely anti-Stranger this whole time. Suddenly she's willing to help find and protect him? I have to wonder what the hell was in those apples.

Galadriel too felt off. She seemed way too calm. One of her nightmares just came true. She should be angry, looking for a way to strike back. Very odd. This ep was written by Jason Cahill, who also wrote Adar. Can't say I'm a fan.

[Camera One]

1 hour ago, Anduin said:

Galadriel too felt off. She seemed way too calm. One of her nightmares just came true. She should be angry, looking for a way to strike back. Very odd.

She was indeed very calm.  The Galadriel from episodes past might have gone rambo on that group of orcs.  To me, it seems like her nightmare coming true unexpectedly triggered a great deal of guilt.  I was wondering maybe she was in shock in a some ways and the eruption and the widespread death brought back a lot of war memories from the First Age that she had suppressed.  It was like she was so focused on finding evidence that evil was back that she didn't know what to do next because solving the Mordor problem is going to require more than simple battle.  Though at the same time, she may be more empowered by the end since she now had solid evidence she can bring to Gil-galad.

I hope we are not in store for a love triangle when Celeborn inevitably returns.

[PeterPirate]

1 hour ago, Camera One said:

I hope we are not in store for a love triangle when Celeborn inevitably returns.

I've heard there was a love triangle in the third Hobbit movie.  That movie made a lot of money.  

Edited October 7, 2022 by PeterPirate

[cambridgeguy]

1 hour ago, PeterPirate said:

I've heard there was a love triangle in the third Hobbit movie.  That movie made a lot of money.  

I’ve heard there wasn’t a love triangle in the first Hobbit movie.  That movie made even more money.

[PurpleTentacle]

They really thought they were making some big reveals with the Balrog and Mordor at the end, didn't they?

Isn't it thousands of years too early for the Balrog to destroy Moria? You'd think he'd still be sleeping for a while.

6 hours ago, Aulty said:

I hope that this means the stranger isn't a balrog, not because it isn't consistent with JRR, but I feel it would be a big thing for a layman audience to accept.

Guys, I know you want to believe the writers are better than this, but they aren't. It's Gandalf.

[Grimnar]

I don't know but for some reason this episode didn't work for me. 

Harfoots story is kind of meh at this point and it is really difficult to care for them when they are ready abond everyone who will slow them down. Stranger was used and when he couldn't fix the tree immediately he was send away. Does someone have theory who are these 3 strangers?

Durin and Elrond's friendship is ok but I feel that Elrond should be replaced by Celebrimbor. This way his character could be better build up for future events. Now Celebrimbor is barely in the show about rings of power.
Still not fan of the mithril storyline and how it can help elves when it doesn't seem that elves have just one year without it. Elrond even said this episode that he was barely tired when they had shattering stone comptetion. So it is hard for me to belive that they are affected by tree being "infected".
I suppose now that dwarves didn't accidently wake up balrog because they were greedy but because they wanted to help elves.
Did Disa come at the end of the episode as quite power hungry?

The Southland storyline was badly written. How it happened that Galadriel and Theo, Miriel with Isildur and Valandil, Elendil, Halbrand, Bronwyn and Arondir were in same village but after the eruption it looked as they were in different places? The village was very small and they didn't meet each other? Now Númenor has colonies in Middle Earth or Pelargir is supposed to be abonded settlement?
Not fan of Miriel being blind and I hope blindness is not going to be main reason why Pharazon will usurp her throne.
Problem with prequels is that we know that Isildur can't die, so I assume that he is going to be Adar's prisoner.
Halbrand's reputation among Southlanders feels unearned and again character which seems in one moment seriously injured is in next scene riding horse without problem.

We have one episode to finish this season and it seems that this season we will not get any forging of rings of power. I wonder what will be main events for season finale.

[quarks]

1. Oooh, Celeborn mention! And one that suggests that, as in the books, Galadriel and Celeborn met and probably married back in the First Age. I noted that she didn't exactly say that he died; more that she never saw him again. Which leaves the possibility that he's not dead, and still in Middle-earth. Or the possibility that he did die, and his spirit went to Valinor, spent some time in the Houses of Mandos, and has now been reborn.

In the second case, that means that when Galadriel jumped back into the sea, she wasn't just saying goodbye to the chance of seeing her parents, other relatives, and friends in Valinor, but also saying goodbye to the chance of seeing her husband again. Something I kinda wish the show had mentioned before this - not just because that would have quieted my "Where is Celeborn?" questions, but because I think that would have given more emotional resonance to that decision.

2. Oooh, hint that the Ents are wandering around in the Greenwood. (This is at least the second such hint.) I wonder if we'll see them.

3. I've been pretty skeptical of the Halbrand = Sauron theory, and I still am, but I have to say that I did find it more than a bit odd that Halbrand was a) the only one who apparently "needed" Elvish medicine, b) despite this could still walk and ride a horse, and c) is the only one of the various groups here who is heading to Lindon. Like, even the Numenorians aren't sending some sort of ambassador/delegate. That said, the whole "I'm bringing Halbrand to the Elves!" seemed more like a Galadriel thing, and not something that Halbrand requested, so....maybe it's just a very awkward way to get Halbrand to the Elves.

I also found the whole YAY HALBRAND stuff from the Southlanders more than a bit odd, largely because I'm not sure what he did to earn any of that, but if he's actually Sauron and somehow manipulating their emotions, I guess it....makes a little bit more sense. I'm still skeptical, but I think this episode provided more evidence for that theory than we've seen in some time.

4. Or we are heading straight for a Halbrand/Galadriel/Celeborn love triangle starting next episode and continuing for the series.

5. I am mildly curious about the cultists, who seem to be original creations of this show. Who taught them that the best way to approach a group of strangers for to get information is to burn their belongings to the ground?

6. Wow, that Balrog is one light sleeper. No wonder the Fellowship of the Ring woke him up so easily years later.

7. It's kinda cool that Isildur is going to get rescued by the horse (go horse!) but it would have been even cooler if this episode had not had so many fakeout deaths. One per episode really should be the maximum.

1 hour ago, Grimnar said:

We have one episode to finish this season and it seems that this season we will not get any forging of rings of power. 

And we still seem to be missing several Ringbearers. We have at most three Dwarven lords (the two Durins and Disa); and at most five possible Nazgul (Halbrand, Waldreg, Theo, Kemen and Valandil). I'm not saying that we need to meet all of them; I'm just kinda surprised that more Dwarven lords haven't been mentioned as sidenotes. ("If your friend needs mithril, have him go to the Lonely Mountain!")

[JustHereForFood]

I was quite surprised that all main characters survived the end of last episode, I'm glad. Isildur is obviously alive for future plot, I would have expected one of the original characters to be left with uncertain fate instead.

Now we know that Creepy Trio are villains, I was giving them the benefit of a doubt until they burned all of the Harfoots possessions.

Did anyone else expect that tree to start talking?

4 hours ago, Grimnar said:

Did Disa come at the end of the episode as quite power hungry?

I liked her since the beginning, but she was giving me some dark vibes this episode. That talk with Durin at the end definitely sounded dramatic.

I expected that Balrog would be just a teaser for next season, but it's a bit anticlimactic if he's woken just by a leaf that fell down by accident.

Oh, and what "Eye" is meant in the episode title? Not the Eye of Sauron, but I can't think of anything eye-related from the episode, other than Miriel losing sight.

[QuantumMechanic]

After todays episode I am even more firmly convinced I could go to An Archive of Our Own and find significantly better fanfic than the dreck Rings of Power is inflicting on me. With less clunky dialogue, too.

[Grimnar]

7 hours ago, quarks said:

2. Oooh, hint that the Ents are wandering around in the Greenwood. (This is at least the second such hint.) I wonder if we'll see them.

3. I've been pretty skeptical of the Halbrand = Sauron theory, and I still am, but I have to say that I did find it more than a bit odd that Halbrand was a) the only one who apparently "needed" Elvish medicine, b) despite this could still walk and ride a horse, and c) is the only one of the various groups here who is heading to Lindon. Like, even the Numenorians aren't sending some sort of ambassador/delegate. That said, the whole "I'm bringing Halbrand to the Elves!" seemed more like a Galadriel thing, and not something that Halbrand requested, so....maybe it's just a very awkward way to get Halbrand to the Elves.

I also found the whole YAY HALBRAND stuff from the Southlanders more than a bit odd, largely because I'm not sure what he did to earn any of that, but if he's actually Sauron and somehow manipulating their emotions, I guess it....makes a little bit more sense. I'm still skeptical, but I think this episode provided more evidence for that theory than we've seen in some time.

4. Or we are heading straight for a Halbrand/Galadriel/Celeborn love triangle starting next episode and continuing for the series.

6. Wow, that Balrog is one light sleeper. No wonder the Fellowship of the Ring woke him up so easily years later.

7. It's kinda cool that Isildur is going to get rescued by the horse (go horse!) but it would have been even cooler if this episode had not had so many fakeout deaths. One per episode really should be the maximum.

And we still seem to be missing several Ringbearers. We have at most three Dwarven lords (the two Durins and Disa); and at most five possible Nazgul (Halbrand, Waldreg, Theo, Kemen and Valandil). I'm not saying that we need to meet all of them; I'm just kinda surprised that more Dwarven lords haven't been mentioned as sidenotes. ("If your friend needs mithril, have him go to the Lonely Mountain!")

2. I think ents were in trailers for this show, so maybe they will be in last episode(probably will save Harfoots).

3. Yes, Halbrand's reputation among Southlanders doesn't make sense.And travel to Lindon should take weeks/months, not sure that seriously injured Halbrand can make it(probably another teleportion between locations) unless he is really Sauron.

4. I hope there will be no love triangle.

6. And that was just leaf, the bucket in Fellowship had to feel for balrog as bomb.

7. The fake out deaths were kind of annoying and only character missing is character we know that can't die yet(Theo, Bronwyn, Valandil or Arondir would be better as we don't know their ultimate fates).

Yes, I hoped that we will get to know more potential ringbearers. Men should be kings/lords and so far only Kemen is kind of fitting the requirements(unless Halbrand is going to be nazgul). I thought that Dwarves should be lords from 7 clans, so I am not sure that Durin will get 3 ring just for his family. And they kind of metioned other dwarf lords(Durin said that other lords agreed with elves proposal) but it wasn't clear if Durin meant lords from Moria or lords of other dwarves clans(if he meant the second then not sure how hecould break the deal to other lords before he talked with his father). 

Edited October 8, 2022 by Grimnar

[quarks]

8 minutes ago, Grimnar said:

Yes, I hoped that we will get to know more potential ringbearers. Men should be kings/lords and so far only Kemen is kind of fitting the requirements(unless Halbrand is going to be nazgul). I thought that Dwarves should be lords from 7 clans, so I am not sure that Durin will get 3 ring just for his family. And they kind of metioned other dwarf lords(Durin said that other lords agreed with elves proposal) but it wasn't clear if Durin meant lords from Moria or lords of other dwarves clans(if he meant the second then not sure how hecould break the deal to other lords before he talked with his father). 

I don't know if both Durins and Disa will get a ring, but I think Disa's chances of getting a ring shot way up this episode, after she revealed her ambition. I'd say she's probably more likely to get a ring than Older Durin is. In terms of the other Dwarf lords - in the books, at least one ring made its way to the Lonely Mountain, so I assumed at least some Dwarf lords lived outside of Khazad-dum.

In terms of the Nazgul, the main candidates so far seem to be Halbrand (especially in his scenes tonight which echoed dialogue from the post-Weathertop scene in the Fellowship of the Ring film, involving Frodo and - yep - a Nazgul), Kemen (as a Numenorian lord who certainly seems interested in power and underhanded actions), Waldreg (who is certainly on the YAY EVIL SAURON AND ADAR train already, and probably earned a ring with that volcano stunt), Theo (who is already tempted by the power of the evil sword), and Isildur's one surviving friend. So that's five - but your point about kings/lords is well taken. Unless Waldreg, Theo and the surviving friend become lords in the next few seasons - granted, not entirely out of the question - they may not be Nazgul candidates.

Enjoy your long wraithly life, Kemen!

[Grimnar]

17 minutes ago, quarks said:

I don't know if both Durins and Disa will get a ring, but I think Disa's chances of getting a ring shot way up this episode, after she revealed her ambition. I'd say she's probably more likely to get a ring than Older Durin is. In terms of the other Dwarf lords - in the books, at least one ring made its way to the Lonely Mountain, so I assumed at least some Dwarf lords lived outside of Khazad-dum.

In terms of the Nazgul, the main candidates so far seem to be Halbrand (especially in his scenes tonight which echoed dialogue from the post-Weathertop scene in the Fellowship of the Ring film, involving Frodo and - yep - a Nazgul), Kemen (as a Numenorian lord who certainly seems interested in power and underhanded actions), Waldreg (who is certainly on the YAY EVIL SAURON AND ADAR train already, and probably earned a ring with that volcano stunt), Theo (who is already tempted by the power of the evil sword), and Isildur's one surviving friend. So that's five - but your point about kings/lords is well taken. Unless Waldreg, Theo and the surviving friend become lords in the next few seasons - granted, not entirely out of the question - they may not be Nazgul candidates.

Enjoy your long wraithly life, Kemen!

If I recall well, Lonely Mountain was founded by refugees from Moria in Third Age(balrog wake up in books in Third Age or at least let his presence know and destroyed dwarf kingdom in Moria) so while there should be dwarves in Blue Mountains or Iron Hills(but I think they should be still Durin's folk according to book), Lonely Mountain kingdom doesn't exist at this point. And ring from Lonely Mountain is ring which received Durin in Second Age.

 I thought about Theo and Waldreg as possible nazguls but dismissed them as they don't fit the requirements(yet).

[susannot]

Who were the creepy tall trio dressed in long white robes?

[Anduin]

1 hour ago, susannot said:

Who were the creepy tall trio dressed in long white robes?

It's a mystery, but they burned the Harfoot carts down. I can't imagine they're up to any good. I'm glad Nori and the others are off to warn him.

A guess I've seen around the place, some kind of priestesses of Sauron. If the Stranger is Sauron, it's really no good. For now though, it's just a case of wait and see.

[quarks]

2 hours ago, susannot said:

Who were the creepy tall trio dressed in long white robes?

I can tell you who they aren't - easily recognizable characters from the books.

[Harvey]

3 hours ago, quarks said:

I can tell you who they aren't - easily recognizable characters from the books.

It's not always for the worse. Like for example, Adar is a completely made-up character but he is the only one who is actually good.

The people who write this show seem to support the line of thought that orcs are victims of racism. Under this perspective, Adar's position is somewhat relatable, he wants to protect his kind. The writers clearly had a vision for his backstory, his motivations, and his goals that is sorely lacking for almost every other character.

His backstory and his relationship to the orcs also explores the Tolkien universe in an interesting way (vs how most of the show just waters down the lore and/or makes aspects of it nonsensical). I am fine with them deviating from the books when they actually do it in a good way.

[MJ Frog]

On 10/7/2022 at 4:29 PM, Grimnar said:

Did Disa come at the end of the episode as quite power hungry?

She definitely had some Lady Macbeth happening. And, you know, she already has the accent for it, so...

[PeterPirate]

4 minutes ago, MJ Frog said:

She definitely had some Lady Macbeth happening. And, you know, she already has the accent for it, so...

Or perhaps she will be like Lucretia in the mini-series prequel to Spartacus and do the deed herself.  There are four prominent female roles in this show, and three of them are in positions of leadership.  It's noteworthy that Durin III did not take the crest from Durin IV.  

[Camera One]

2 hours ago, MJ Frog said:

She definitely had some Lady Macbeth happening.

1 minute ago, PeterPirate said:

Or perhaps she will be like Lucretia in the mini-series prequel to Spartacus and do the deed herself. 

There are certainly plenty of places in Khazad-dum where Durin III can trip and fall to great depths.

[tennisgurl]

I thought that this was a good episode, but I really wish the stories felt more connected to each other. I know that they will converge eventually, some of them already have, but it almost feels like an anthology at times.

 Celeborn exists in the shows universe!

[tv-talk]

On 10/8/2022 at 11:52 PM, Anduin said:

If the Stranger is Sauron

The Stranger is pretty clearly Gandalf and the show is explaining his fondness for Hobbits as the Harfoots are proto-Hobbits.

On 10/9/2022 at 4:35 AM, Harvey said:

Adar is a completely made-up character but he is the only one who is actually good.

The people who write this show seem to support the line of thought that orcs are victims of racism. Under this perspective, Adar's position is somewhat relatable, he wants to protect his kind. The writers clearly had a vision for his backstory, his motivations, and his goals that is sorely lacking for almost every other character.

For sure Adar is the most interesting character in the show and I hope they do a lot more with him. The idea of the Orcs as persecuted is excellent in terms of deviating from the source material to do something really unique.

[PeterPirate]

I learned the basics of the following from the YouTube commentator Just Some Guy.  

Regarding the scene where Galadriel tells Theo of how she met Celeborn, there is this snippet from Quenta Silmarillion, Chapter 19, titled Of Beren and Luthien:  

It is told in the Lay of Leithian that Beren came stumbling into Doriath grey and bowed as with many years of woe, so great had been the torment of the road. But wandering in the summer in the woods of Neldoreth he came upon Lúthien, daughter of Thingol and Melian, at a time of evening under moonrise, as she danced upon the unfading grass in the glades beside Esgalduin. Then all memory of his pain departed from him, and he fell into an enchantment; for Lúthien was the most beautiful of all the Children of Ilúvatar.  

From How JRR Tolkien’s Relationship with Edith Bratt Inspired and Echoed a Tale of Middle Earth:

It was during this time, in 1917, when Tolkien was stationed near Hull, that he and Edith went walking in woodland near Roos. There, in a grove of flowering hemlock, Edith began to dance and sing for Tolkien- and Luthien was born. “In those days her hair was raven, her skin clear, her eyes brighter than you have seen them, and she could sing – and dance, ” Tolkien wrote to Christopher in 1972.

Tolkien created Luthien to match the exact physical likeness of his wife on that day- and to capture her musical talent, which led Beren to give his elven princess the nickname of “Tinuviel” or nightingale. That day in the hemlock woods was not just the day that Luthien was born; it was a precious moment from the early marriage of Tolkien and Edith, which he captured forever in the story of Beren and Luthien. It was a moment of peace, tranquility, and hope after the horrors of war, not only for the fictional Beren but also for his creator.

 

[Haleth]

Yeah, the Tolkiens had a romance that was full of obstacles too. At least he didn’t lose a hand.

This was the first epi that I didn’t love. Too full of contrivances. The writers can do better. 

[Emily Thrace]

On 10/8/2022 at 12:31 AM, Grimnar said:

3. Yes, Halbrand's reputation among Southlanders doesn't make sense.And travel to Lindon should take weeks/months, not sure that seriously injured Halbrand can make it(probably another teleportion between locations) unless he is really Sauron.

The Southlanders loving Halbrand makes sense if you think about it from their perspective. They all probably think he brought the Numenorians back to save them. They don't know Galadriel practically had to drag him there. They just know he showed up and it meant they didn't get eaten by orcs. His arrival also means they might not be under the elves thumb any more. From the Southlanders perspective I can see them seeing him as a saviour.

I also wonder if their journey might take them past the Greenwoods. If it might be Galadriel who takes out the wierdo cultists and Gandalf saves Halbrand in exchange. The books do reference that Galadriel is one Gandalf's oldest friends and uses his original name.

The Islildur fakeout might be forgivable if it has lasting political consequences for Numenor. If "losing" Isildur causes Elendiel to take Pharazon's side over Muriel's it could indirectly cause Numenor's downfall. Numenor being destroyed being Isildur's fault would be rather poetic.

I also wonder if Isildur may end up being captured. That's what most likely happened to Celeborn and they could setting up bringing him in by having Isildur being taken to the same holding cell. 

[Anduin]

2 hours ago, Emily Thrace said:

I also wonder if their journey might take them past the Greenwoods. If it might be Galadriel who takes out the wierdo cultists and Gandalf saves Halbrand in exchange. The books do reference that Galadriel is one Gandalf's oldest friends and uses his original name.

The best way to Lindon would be along the White Mountains and through the Gap of Rohan. Maybe there's an elf settlement in Lorien at this point. Could be one in Greenwood. But it seems a little out of their way.

[PeterPirate]

The best meaning of the episode title I can think of is the opening shot of Galadriel's eye.  I speculate this is the start of her character arc.  

Whether "Galbrand" or "Haladriel" takes place is anyone's guess.  They are most certainly teasing the possibility of a romance, maybe even a love triangle.  Gotta spice up the Second Age, doncha know.  

Although one generally-favorable website doesn't think it's a good idea.

Galadriel & Halbrand's The Rings Of Power Romance Tease Doesn't Work

For The Rings of Power to move with the times and add a little spice is one thing, but entering two characters who don't need romantic arcs into a romantic arc - despite the "Elf-human forbidden love" narrative already being woven by Bronwyn and Arondir - isn't the kind of considered, thought-out evolution The Rings of Power has shown until now.

Also, regarding pyroclastic flows:

Honoring Volcanologist David Johnston as a Hero and a Human

It was Johnston who announced Mount St. Helens’s eruption to the world—“Vancouver! Vancouver! This is it!”—moments before his death.

Edited October 13, 2022 by PeterPirate

[Anduin]

So I just noticed that someone missed a trick. The Numenorean army camp. From this map, it's in the hills of Emyn Arnen. There are three notable cities in Gondor, the camp could have been the foundation of any of them. Minas Ithil/Morgul at the pass through the mountains, Osgiliath along the river to the north, and of course Minas Anor/Tirith at the eastern end of the mountains to the west. Of those, Ithil/Morgul is the closest. But it wasn't to be.

People will populate the area in the future, but the closest seems to be Hurin of Emyn Arnen in the 17th century. Oh well.