S15.E13: The Ugly Truth

[Emma Snyder]

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The couples have one final chance to speak with the experts as Decision Day draws near; Dr. Pepper, Pastor Cal and DeVon Franklin help the couples confront truths; one couple finds it difficult to continue on, while another is ready to go all in.

Airs Wednesday September 28 at 8:00PM EDT.

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Afterparty: Spinning out.

Host Keshia Knight Pulliam sits down with Krysten, Miguel, and special guest Sarah Fraser as they discuss Morgan and Binh, Miguel's unwillingness to promise Lindy "forever," and a jaw dropping conversation Krysten and Mitch had off-camera..

 

Airs Wednesday September 28 at 10:03PM EDT.

[Emma Snyder]

Being that the Afterparty threads do not generate a whole lot of traffic, feel free to discuss Afterparty here in the episode thread.

[Elizzikra]

Bye Migindy. You are my favorite cast member this season and I will miss you.

[Kiss my mutt]

At least that baby cried less than Justin!

[Elizzikra]

I can't believe Justin and Alexis are STILL talking about the dogs. I love dogs. I have several dogs. I have done dog rescue. I'm still sick of this dog discussion.

[mythoughtis]

Why is Miguel throwing a shovel rather than a axe?  No wonder it’s not sticking in the wall 

also he is never going to commit to a future to the level she is.  Plus she gets so upset by every caveat he mentions 

Edited September 29, 2022 by mythoughtis

[kristen111]

I have no idea what Miguel and Lindy were trying to say.  She just keeps on babbling about who knows what.

Why did the experts match Mitch and Krysten in the first place?  They are miles apart in what they want out of life.

[Elizzikra]

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I have no idea what Miguel and Lindy were trying to say.  She just keeps on babbling about who knows what.

Usually I just tune her out. There is something about the way she speaks that is like nails on a chalkboard for me, plus I usually can't figure out what she is trying to convey.

[mythoughtis]

Does  Mitch think  the only houses for sale are flipped or expensive?  Surely there’s a steady supply of starter homes there. Krysten’s business isn’t going to force low income people into sleeping in the park. 
Mitch can never be happy with whatever Krysten says or does because he thinks he needs to improve her 24/7 

I also feel that Krysten is overly positive in what she says about the state of their  marriage as opposed to how she feels internally about it 

Edited September 29, 2022 by mythoughtis

[kristen111]

These games are a waste of time.  Same with the sex gadgets last week.  Even Pastor Cal didn’t care for them.

To me, Lindy is two people.  The cutesy smiley fun gal, then the raging impatient lunatic.

I don’t think Alexia came on this shoe for love.  She came to be noticed.  The makeup, hair and clothes are over the top.  Boobs too.

[Elizzikra]

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Does  Mitch think  the only houses for sale are flipped or expensive?  Surely there’s a steady supply of starter homes there. Krysten’s business isn’t going to force low income people into sleeping in the park. . 

At least where I live, the issue with house flippers is that they can usually outbid families who are looking for affordable homes and they often have more cash down, making them more appealing to sellers. Most of our "starter" homes are purchased by developers (sometimes smaller companies and other times, fairly large builders with deep pockets) who buy them, renovate and re-sell, which pushes families who would buy the homes and live in them as-is (or with minimal renovation) out of the market. I don't necessarily agree with all of this, but it is the argument I hear from people who have issues with flippers - and I do see it play out in my area.

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I also feel that Krysten is overly positive in what she says about the state if their  marriage as opposed to how she feels internally about it 

Agreed.

Oh man. Binh and Morgan have only gotten started and I'm already pissed off. Binh - this is not your fault alone.

[kristen111]

I want Morgan to tell the experts exactly what Binh said to Justin that was so bad, because he doesn’t know.  Neither do we.  She owes us.  Was it bad enough to quit the marriage?  I think she’s a nut job.  If it’s too personal, at least just tell the expert.

[mythoughtis]

19 minutes ago, kristen111 said:

I don’t think Alexia came on this shoe for love.  She came to be noticed.  The makeup, hair and clothes are over the top.  Boobs too.

What is it with her and primping while she’s talking into the camera on her phone? And who else in the world dresses like that when meeting with a therapist? 
 

i don’t see anything helpful about these meetings with the experts 

Edited September 29, 2022 by mythoughtis

[Elizzikra]

Mitch is such a clod.

[mythoughtis]

Binh has apologized enough.  I don’t think she’s ever even told him what specific things he said to Justin that he  should  apologize for. She just rants about it in general.  I think she shouldn’t have 100% trusted Alexis’s version of events. 
 

Edited September 29, 2022 by mythoughtis

[kristen111]

Was that Mitchs last meal?  Sure sounded like.  I can see him eating on the cheap.  She’s too polished for him and will get disgusted with his thinking and manners.  I could see them living in a tent on the beach.  I use lots of paper towels.  She will miss them, and now he doesn’t like makeup.  Maybe because it’s expensive.  She’s giving up too much.  What is he giving up?  Maybe that stupid hat.

[Mr. Miner]

Mitch

Poser Asshole Turd

[kristen111]

Lindy cannot have a Baby, because she is the Baby.  Getting more annoying as time goes by.  I think he’s realizing it now.  Everything is about her.  She’s a little scary.  Her true self is coming out, and Miguel is seeing it.

Edited September 29, 2022 by kristen111

[Mr. Miner]

Decision Day to Krysten means not staying married to Mitch.

[Elizzikra]

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I use lots of paper towels.

I try not to but having a dog is a game changer. Granted one of ours is older and on medications that make him pee a lot, but dogs are just messy. I could use regular towels and wash them but that's just kind of gross. And Mitch would be horrified but one of our dogs is in diapers now and I'm not using reusable ones. And honestly, I laughed when Mitch said he doesn't use paper towels. We saw his house; it looks like he doesn't clean at all, so of course he doesn't need paper towels. 

Binh is a class act, though I think he is still taking on way too much of the blame for the end of the relationship. I don't think that anyone can meet Morgan's vague standards for trust. She's going to have a lonely life if she doesn't figure her shit out.

Edited September 29, 2022 by Elizzikra

[kristen111]

WOW, Morgan is a Bitch and I think none of them will make it in the end.  All mismatched.

[Kiss my mutt]

Binh conceded WAY too much and Dr. Pepper took Morgan’s side without really knowing how vindictive she’s been. I can see him closing off more after this experience and developing relationship PTSD. Then Morgan saying she doesn’t even want to be friends with him was unnecessarily hostile. I think she’s more volatile then Lindy. 
Mitch is too rigid and selfish expecting Krysten to meet his expectations of his ideal woman without caring how she feels. His slurping his pasta was rude and immature, in response to her trying to have a discussion with him in which she was trying to see his point of view, even. Good on her sister for laying it out for Mitch. He was totally expecting to get some pointers as to how to ask her to tone down her look and she shut it down.  
 

Wasn’t there supposed to be a male relationship therapist on this season? I remember reading he got a divorce shortly before the show filmed. It’s not that motivational speaker is it? He’s pulling out all his motivational speak and cliches like an audition. 

[Crashcourse]

Krysten does wear too much eye makeup, which makes her eyes look like they're bulging out.  However, while I know this discussion is just for tv drama, this whole discussion about what Mitch told her about her makeup should have been private.  I feel embarrassed for Krysten.

[Elizzikra]

I love Krysten. She is so emotionally intelligent and mature. She has put up with so much and she is just really a class act. She is honest without being bitchy or nasty. I really, really like her. And I think she is beautiful.

I also like Pastor Cal's pool party outfit.

For a change, Justin sums things up perfectly. "He (Mitch) needs someone with dirty feet."

Edited September 29, 2022 by Elizzikra

[mythoughtis]

Mitch is clueless.  He says he’s not been trying to change Krysten… that’s all he does is try to change her to his ideal woman. 

[Empress1]

11 minutes ago, Elizzikra said:

For a change, Justin sums things up perfectly. "He (Mitch) needs someone with dirty feet."

“Hippie from Boulder.” That’s exactly who he needs.

Morgan is an asshole and Binh deserved better. I feel sad for him.

Edited September 29, 2022 by Empress1

[kristen111]

Statia is too pushy and expects love too fast.  I just have a feeling he’s not that into her enough to stay married.  It’s like she’s desperate.

[endure]

1 hour ago, mythoughtis said:

Does  Mitch think  the only houses for sale are flipped or expensive?  Surely there’s a steady supply of starter homes there. Krysten’s business isn’t going to force low income people into sleeping in the park. 
Mitch can never be happy with whatever Krysten says or does because he thinks he needs to improve her 24/7 

I also feel that Krysten is overly positive in what she says about the state of their  marriage as opposed to how she feels internally about it 

Me too - she gives up too much to him thinking she can manage it but I feel like it's going to backfire on her....you have to compromise in a marriage but it seems to one sided here to me. If any relationship isn't reciprocal it just isn't going to work long term, and that's in a marriage or friends.

[Elizzikra]

I'm actually feeling like Krysten and Miguel would have been a great match. 

[endure]

2 minutes ago, Elizzikra said:

I'm actually feeling like Krysten and Miguel would have been a great match. 

I think Kristen is a great partner for a lot of guys, she's easy going and reasonable and she really wants a good a relationship and more than willing to work at it.

[Adeejay]

I can't get over Pastor Frankin equating a married woman going to the club with one that goes to the church or the gym.  Where do they find these experts?

Last week, I almost fell off my sofa when Lindy called Morgan "emotionally intelligent".  Want to see someone who fits that description?  See Kirsten.  After she silenced Dr. Pepper during her speech, I actually stood up and cheered.  

Miguel doesn't seem to like "crazy" Lindy.

[endure]

Morgan is full of crap and a narcissist, I'm glad they're done and totally disrespect the 'PRO'S' for matching her with Binh, he deserved so much more.

[kristen111]

1 minute ago, endure said:

I think Kristen is a great partner for a lot of guys, she's easy going and reasonable and she really wants a good a relationship and more than willing to work at it.

A person doesn’t have to be a brain surgeon to see whoever matched these people up did it for drama only.  It’s insulting to viewers.  Poor Binh, if this was real.  Morgan couldn’t have been meaner to him.

At times, Lindy pouts like a child.  Krysten is a wonderful person and deserved much better.

[mythoughtis]

13 minutes ago, Adeejay said:

I can't get over Pastor Frankin equating a married woman going to the club with one that goes to the church or the gym.  Where do they find these experts?

He wasn’t.  He was trying to use the  slippery slope concept to point out how controlling partners start out with a complaint about one thing and then start controlling other areas.  So that Justin is currently trying to stop Alexis from going to a club and then possibly later would start controlling her going elsewhere too 
I don’t think Justin is controlling.  I just think it’s too early in their relationship to be this upset about Aiexis going to a club  with her friends.  Married or not, they’ve only known each other a little over a month.  She deserves a few more weeks to feel married and agree that married couples tend to go to clubs together or only occasionally with a group of friends.  Same concept applies to Stacia and Nate- it’s too soon for  her to get upset because Nate hasn’t declared his undying love. 

Edited September 29, 2022 by mythoughtis

[endure]

Bravo Krysten, finally seeing the light brightly 💡👍🏻👏

[endure]

Try harder Mitch you self serving idiot.  He won't get it..... ughhhhh

[Madding crowd]

I don’t understand the experts seeming like they are upset at Bihn when all we know about is him telling the nursing credits story. I can see being annoyed by it but to say you could never see the sight of him again is too much. And then the experts acting like he needs therapy for talking to the other grooms when they all do the same thing. I’m not saying he doesn’t need therapy but not because he told Justin she didn’t finish her credits.

Mitch would be a very hard person to find a match for and he seems clueless as to how he comes across. I do have to say based on many years of marriage and years of dating before marriage; many guys prefer little to no makeup and they are usually talking about heavy eyeliner and lashes etc. Krysten already knows he was never attracted to her but at least he was honest. I felt like she was a bit over dramatic by what he said to her sister. Based on his very exacting lifestyle, he probably did expect a hippie girl but he is trying.

[buttersister]

Not watching live anymore--enjoying it more with the FF button. It's FF for Lindy and Miguel, don't like either one of them. Don't think they'll make it, either, so waste of time without any noticeable entertainment. Same with Justin and Alexis. The judges, er, experts aren't good actors. And certainly not good therapists!

Fuck off, Mitch. Yeah, in Japan, it's considered good manners to slurp your noodles. In San Diego, you're a rude pig. Maybe he could package himself as a weight-loss service? Date me: I'm a little stinky, dirty-looking, piggy-at-the-trough eater, judging you constantly and finding you wanting. You'll lose your appetite in no time!

[Elizzikra]

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I can't get over Pastor Frankin equating a married woman going to the club with one that goes to the church or the gym.  Where do they find these experts?

I didn't have any problem with it. I mean - sure, they are different settings. But it's as likely that you're going to meet someone for a romantic relationship in any of those three places. I suppose the likelihood of a one-night stand is lower at the church or the gym but if you're afraid your partner is going to cheat, then be aware that they could meet an affair partner anywhere.

[Spectator]

25 minutes ago, buttersister said:

Not watching live anymore--enjoying it more with the FF button.

I did the same thing….but I found myself fast forwarding through the entire show…lol! This season is just so so rough!

[Spectator]

I couldn’t help but laugh at Morgan discussing her “softer side”. Clearly we never got to experience this lovely side of her but I would imagine it looks a lot like this…

Edited September 29, 2022 by Spectator

[Yeah No]

24 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

I don’t understand the experts seeming like they are upset at Bihn when all we know about is him telling the nursing credits story. I can see being annoyed by it but to say you could never see the sight of him again is too much. And then the experts acting like he needs therapy for talking to the other grooms when they all do the same thing. I’m not saying he doesn’t need therapy but not because he told Justin she didn’t finish her credits.

I think Morgan was upset that someone would question her professional integrity, especially a guy she just married.  She thinks a little too highly of herself and is very unforgiving.  I will give her this, though - I can see being upset that it aired on TV and gave millions of people the impression that she lied about her education and professional standing.  Even here on this thread people were confused about whether or not she lied.  She felt forced to show the world her credentials to set the record straight.  I can see being a little upset about that, but like you say, a little, not all the way from things were going great to "game over, I want a divorce". Unfortunately Morgan is such a cold hard bitch that she totally intimidated Binh and he couldn't give her more than a basic apology.  I wanted to say "dude, grow a pair" but knowing just how bad of a cold hard bitch she is, I can't say I blame him.  Although if that were me I'd have told her to get off her high fucking horse, I made a mistake, stop punishing me.  Unfortunately she pressed all his insecure buttons and he caved in and accepted her punishment.

Binh went from taking responsibility for his mistake to admitting he wasn't ready for marriage and needed help.  If he were more articulate and confident about himself he might have had the ability to stand up to the "experts" and shut them down the way Krysten did.  But no, he let them bully him.  And that pissed me off.  And I don't get why no one forced Morgan to take a long hard look in the mirror and made her examine why what he did was a complete deal breaker.  So the guy panicked and told Justin something that turned out to be untrue.  I don't even think it was an intentional lie.  With the way Morgan treated him over it there wasn't much he could do to turn things around.  Her mind was made up and completely closed.  He could have come crawling back crying and it wouldn't have mattered.  So I think as usual the "experts" are way off on this one. 

What gets me is the way Pepper kept going on at Krysten about hanging in there and accommodating asshole Mitch when she has turned herself inside out and upside down to accommodate him and the guy STILL doesn't accept her for her.  I am SO glad she shut them down.  I gave her a standing ovation!  But meanwhile they never treated Morgan like that and she was obviously way overboard in her reaction to Binh.  No, they supported her and made Binh take total responsibility for it.  Shame on them!

[Yeah No]

1 hour ago, kristen111 said:

Statia is too pushy and expects love too fast.  I just have a feeling he’s not that into her enough to stay married.  It’s like she’s desperate.

My mother always told me never to be the one to say "I love you" first because sometimes men need time before they can feel right about saying it even if they feel it, and if you say it too soon it can put so much pressure on them that will "scare" it away.  Then it will take even longer for them to say it because they will want to be absolutely sure they're not just saying it to please you.  So when I was dating my husband I had to go on faith for a while that things were going good and not "jinx" it by coming on too strong or pushy.  I bit my tongue for MONTHS before my husband was ready to say "I love you" even though it was clear to me and the entire world that he was.  Sometimes a mother's advice is golden.  Unfortunately these "experts" have zero idea about relationship dynamics.  Stacia should be told to develop her intuition and follow her gut.  If her gut tells her he loves her stop borrowing trouble and getting all insecure about it.  That will only further push him away.  Stop worrying about decision day.  Just let things happen in their own time.  Where is anyone with any common sense on this show to tell her that?

[endure]

59 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

I don’t understand the experts seeming like they are upset at Bihn when all we know about is him telling the nursing credits story. I can see being annoyed by it but to say you could never see the sight of him again is too much. And then the experts acting like he needs therapy for talking to the other grooms when they all do the same thing. I’m not saying he doesn’t need therapy but not because he told Justin she didn’t finish her credits.

Mitch would be a very hard person to find a match for and he seems clueless as to how he comes across. I do have to say based on many years of marriage and years of dating before marriage; many guys prefer little to no makeup and they are usually talking about heavy eyeliner and lashes etc. Krysten already knows he was never attracted to her but at least he was honest. I felt like she was a bit over dramatic by what he said to her sister. Based on his very exacting lifestyle, he probably did expect a hippie girl but he is trying.

I’ve always felt like you about Mitch and have felt like he was changing a bit and they were good, and maybe they still are.  But he really pissed me off too, that he is still putting her in that position to feel like she is not acceptable for him and Im trying to see it as Krysten maybe overreacting a bit but I don’t think she did at all.  Basically he is inferring she is superficial for wearing some makeup when she isn’t that at all.   She has bent over backwards to adjust to him, his lifestyle and ideas but he just isn’t open to her in the same way she is, he seems wary and judgemental.  Until tonight I always had some hope for them but he crossed a line there with her and the sad part, I’m not sure he gets it.  I’ve often felt she has been compromising too much in the relationship and that it would bite her in the ass and tonight it really did.  I’m not surprised he was blindsided by her reaction, he’s gotten away with a lot with her.

[Spectator]

I am such a fan of Krysten. The way she handled Mitch slurping his food was perfect…she totally noticed it (in such a funny way) and questioned him in such a soft and diplomatic way. And her conclusion was so her: ’I’m just going to go with that he was really hungry”. 

I applaud her for saying something about it to him directly rather than just complaining to the cameras or to the other girls - and the way she did it and her ability to find a kind way to excuse his poor table manners says a lot about her. She didn’t demand that he stop. Or call him names. Or say she wasn’t attracted to him. Or say she wanted to change him. She laughed about it. It was great.

So what a contrast it was when, just moments later, Mitch proceeded to tell the camera that he needed to figure out a way to tell Krysten that he is only attracted to her when she looks natural (so no makeup, or silk shirts, or whatever else she does). There ABSOLUTELY was the implication that he expected her to change and only look natural all the time (which he then confirmed when he talked to her sister). Ugggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. This man! In a nutshell, she accepts him and all his judgey, demanding Mitch-ness but he wants to change almost everything about her - her appearance, her commitment to the environment, her business venture…heck, he even made her change her jello shot glasses!

Mitch basically wants a female version of himself and is quite inflexible about it. How did the experts not see this when they were casting them together? 

Edited September 29, 2022 by Spectator

[Yeah No]

3 hours ago, kristen111 said:

Lindy cannot have a Baby, because she is the Baby.  Getting more annoying as time goes by.  I think he’s realizing it now.  Everything is about her.  She’s a little scary.  Her true self is coming out, and Miguel is seeing it.

I think Lindy is her own worst enemy.  She reminds me of a friend I have that used to always say things to people that didn't know him too well that made him look like a total wacko when I knew he wasn't.  Lindy has gone on and on about how he hasn't seen her at #10 angry and then backpedaled in front of the experts that she only got that bad twice in her life.  She is a self-saboteur.  And that in and of itself is a little scary.

But judging from the previews and how I've felt in general about him, I think Miguel is a little scary too.  Lindy wants to come off as this loose cannon that might go off at any minute which is just the thing that scares him the most.  So now his true self is coming out more too as he anticipates the worst from her and moves away slowly.  And I'm not loving that either.  The two of them are afraid of each other and sabotaging the relationship by creating a self fulfilling prophecy about themselves.  It's hard to watch.

[Spectator]

Omg…once again Alexis stirred the pot by revealing “non-public” information about another couple - this time Mitch and Krysten, specifically noting how when Mitch and Krysten were first married Mitch said he didn’t want Krysten to dress up or wear makeup. Even Mitch was surprised that that has gotten out. 
 

Jeex Alexis. She needs to mind her own business. Mitch is a dolt but why does she need to blurt out private crap about the others couples all the time? Rotten move. Again.

[Yeah No]

5 minutes ago, Spectator said:

Omg…once again Alexis stirred the pot by revealing “non-public” information about another couple - this time Mitch and Krysten, specifically noting how when Mitch and Krysten were first married Mitch said he didn’t want Krysten to dress up or wear makeup. Even Mitch was surprised that that has gotten out. 
 

Jeex Alexis. She needs to mind her own business. Mitch is a dolt but why does she need to blurt out private crap about the others couples all the time? Rotten move. Again.

Yeah, she's another one the experts should call on the carpet for that behavior but of course noooo because she is providing a source of drama for the show.  Their lack of ethics never ceases to amaze me.

[shok]

6 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

I love Krysten. She is so emotionally intelligent and mature. She has put up with so much and she is just really a class act. She is honest without being bitchy or nasty. I really, really like her. And I think she is beautiful.

I also like Pastor Cal's pool party outfit.

For a change, Justin sums things up perfectly. "He (Mitch) needs someone with dirty feet."

Amazing how two people can watch the same thing and come away with totally opposite reactions to what they saw. I couldn't disagree with you more with your description of Krysten. She's phony as a three dollar bill and thinks she is so superior to Mitch. And she's no better than Binh. She must have called Alexis and blabbed to her the minute she got off the phone with her sister so she's probably bitching about Mitch to everyone she sees and playing the 'poor me' card. In actuality, Mitch was trying to give Krysten a compliment and to tell her he thought she was beautiful as she was and didn't need to do anything fancy and of course Krysten took it the wrong way and stirred up all sorts of shit over it. Mitch could never ever make her happy.

[Yeah No]

3 hours ago, shok said:

Amazing how two people can watch the same thing and come away with totally opposite reactions to what they saw. I couldn't disagree with you more with your description of Krysten. She's phony as a three dollar bill and thinks she is so superior to Mitch. And she's no better than Binh. She must have called Alexis and blabbed to her the minute she got off the phone with her sister so she's probably bitching about Mitch to everyone she sees and playing the 'poor me' card. In actuality, Mitch was trying to give Krysten a compliment and to tell her he thought she was beautiful as she was and didn't need to do anything fancy and of course Krysten took it the wrong way and stirred up all sorts of shit over it. Mitch could never ever make her happy.

I think Krysten knows in her heart of hearts that things are ultimately doomed with Mitch, but she's a person of her word and honoring her commitment, then letting the chips fall where they may.  I see what she is doing as far more genuine than Alexis, who I think is putting on a total act and is not as invested in Justin as she tries to look. 

And if Mitch was trying to give Krysten a compliment that sure went by me.  That would have been THE most "backhanded" compliment the universe has ever seen!  Mitch did not put the emphasis on telling her he thought she was beautiful "as is", he instead approached it as a criticism of how she chooses to present herself.  If who Krysten is is a woman that wears a little makeup, he is still not accepting her for the person she is.  If all he did was once in a while make a comment about how beautiful he thought she was without makeup I could see it, but he poses it as a huge problem that's standing in the way of him truly accepting her.  And that's what I (and obviously Krysten herself) find offensive about it.

Edited September 29, 2022 by Yeah No