S05.E03: Border

[SourK]

Thank you to the Previouslies for reminding me of my favourite moment from last week, which I had forgotten: it's the part where Luke finds out that June cut off a man's finger and sent it through the mail, and he incredulously asks, "How does that help our family?!"

My favourite moment this week was when Lydia had two rooms to visit, and she chose her first stop as the one where she gets to slap someone, and her second as the one where she promises God she'll be less angry.

On 9/21/2022 at 12:09 PM, tennisgurl said:

For one second I thought that June was actually going to do something to Serena, but of course she just yells at her, because that's how most of June's plans are, with the exception of actually managing to escape and then killing Fred. Like when she risked the lives of an insane amount of people to see her daughter sleeping for three seconds. 

Yeah, I feel like they've already passed, "Don't ever touch my daughter again!" Like, wasn't that where we were the first time Serena touched her daughter?

On 9/21/2022 at 3:20 PM, Helena Dax said:

I thought for a moment that the other Commanders were going to force Lawrence to marry Serena! In any case, I simply don't understand her status right now. She seemed to be a prisoner of the US government (or at least, the Canadian one) but when she announced that she was planning to stay, Tuello didn't have any power over her.... And then they went back to Canada and she was again in custody. Wtf?

I was scared for her when she walked into the meeting. It was set up so perfectly, with her being super confident, and sending her protector away, and then, boom -- they pass sentence. And the sentence is, "You go free & have a nice time somewhere else." Okay.

Like everyone else, I'm also super, super confused about how Serena is allowed to decide that she's just staying in Gilead, but also she's still in custody.

On 9/21/2022 at 7:54 PM, Whimsy said:

I didn’t buy it either, but for a different reason. I normally like Anne Dowd’s acting, but that was really bad to me. I didn’t feel any emotion at all and she just was so OTT, at least to me.

Same. I thought that monologue was really uneven. There were parts where she succeeded in conveying the idea that she was barely speaking through sobs, and parts where she really did not. I think she was probably reading the dialogue as written, but it didn't work for me.

13 hours ago, sadie said:

Can anyone explain Serena’s “fans” in Canada. Are they in support of Gilead? Huh? If so, can’t they just go there, I’m sure Gilead would love some of those young fertile women to be handmaids. What are they supporting? Human slavery? Rape? Society where women can’t read, or own money? Do we have supporters of N Korea hanging around the US with candles and midnight vigils? I really don’t get this and no one has explained what these people think? I assume everyone knows of the atrocities in Gilead?

I can come up with my own idea, but I don't think it's been adequately explained in the show. The scenario I can see is that these women have never been to Gilead and they don't fully appreciate how horrible it is, so their POV is like, "Serena is just super Christian and she's trying 2 live according 2 her religion and do what God wants her 2 do, and she's being persecuted for that."

I can easily see Gilead being held up as an ideal by people who've never been there but wish everyone were forced to live according to their values.

10 hours ago, AntFTW said:

Serena asked for a staff and a budget and whatnot but I felt like an ambassadorship to Canada had to be a phony position for her because I didn't think Canada was looking for more formal diplomatic ties with Gilead.

Would Canada let Gilead set up a post or embassy? I wouldn't think so.

I don't think they're officially making her an ambassador. I think they're unofficially returning her to her original job, which was to be a mouthpiece for their politics and have it sound better coming from her because she's a woman. So, I think they're saying they'll support her with resources if she keeps spewing her propaganda in Canada.

I hate the way these plot points all played out, but I do find it interesting to return to the idea of Serena preaching against women's rights to other women -- that was always an interesting part of her back story.

[Cinnabon]

40 minutes ago, SourK said:

like, "Serena is just super Christian and she's trying 2 live according 2 her religion and do what God wants her 2 do, and she's being persecuted for that."

When and where has Serena been persecuted though? Other than by her own husband. 

[Kel Varnsen]

47 minutes ago, SourK said:

can come up with my own idea, but I don't think it's been adequately explained in the show. The scenario I can see is that these women have never been to Gilead and they don't fully appreciate how horrible it is, so their POV is like, "Serena is just super Christian and she's trying 2 live according 2 her religion and do what God wants her 2 do, and she's being persecuted for that."

I can easily see Gilead being held up as an ideal by people who've never been there but wish everyone were forced to live according to their values

I imagine that Gilead doesn't do a lot of PR so all they probably know is they follow the rules of the bible. Any stories that make Gilead look bad can just be written off as fake news from its enemies or bitter ex-handmaids who they feel deserved what they got. They all see themselves basically living the life of Mrs. Putnam, not Janine.

[Redrum]

12 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

When and where has Serena been persecuted though? Other than by her own husband. 

Without getting too political, I have definitely seen members of religious groups insist they are oppressed and persecuted over things that I think reasonable people wouldn't consider oppression or persecution. 

[Cinnabon]

Just now, Redrum said:

Without getting too political, I have definitely seen members of religious groups insist they are oppressed and persecuted over things that I think reasonable people wouldn't consider oppression or persecution. 

And Serena in the context of this show?

[aghst]

I don't think the problem with Gilead having normalized relationships with other countries is an issue of PR.

They conquered a legitimate country and then instituted rape, coercion and various forms of slave labor on people or they kidnapped people who didn't opt to be citizens of this country.

What kind of PR is going to paper over all that?

[Redrum]

1 hour ago, Cinnabon said:

And Serena in the context of this show?

Sure. Serena may feel oppressed by Canada in general taking the tone that her belief system is not acceptable. She's kept locked up despite doing nothing wrong and despite the fact that she did deliver her husband to them in exchange for immunity. She's kept away from people like the candle holders who want to hear about the joys of Gilead. June Osborne - who did murder her husband over HIS beliefs - is allowed to roam free and make threats to her. Even though the majority of Canadians likely agree that her belief system is vial, she seems to want to sing its praises and is not being accorded opportunity. She believes in the God of Gilead so anyone standing in her way of spreading His word is oppressing and persecuting her.

Its somewhat delusional on her part but I can see where Serena can argue she's being oppressed and persecuted by the Canadian and US govts. 

[Cinnabon]

1 hour ago, Redrum said:

Sure. Serena may feel oppressed by Canada in general taking the tone that her belief system is not acceptable. She's kept locked up despite doing nothing wrong and despite the fact that she did deliver her husband to them in exchange for immunity. She's kept away from people like the candle holders who want to hear about the joys of Gilead. June Osborne - who did murder her husband over HIS beliefs - is allowed to roam free and make threats to her. Even though the majority of Canadians likely agree that her belief system is vial, she seems to want to sing its praises and is not being accorded opportunity. She believes in the God of Gilead so anyone standing in her way of spreading His word is oppressing and persecuting her.

Its somewhat delusional on her part but I can see where Serena can argue she's being oppressed and persecuted by the Canadian and US govts. 

Yeah, I don’t buy that her Canadian sycophants see her as persecuted. She’s being treated far better than any prisoner I’ve ever seen.

[Redrum]

21 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

Yeah, I don’t buy that her Canadian sycophants see her as persecuted. She’s being treated far better than any prisoner I’ve ever seen.

My small counter argument is that she's still a prisoner, isn't she? Not free to do as she likes and to go where she pleases. 

[steph369]

“I thought you’d be taller.” Grooooan, how old is that line? Who writes this drivel? I’m sure they thought they were being so clever. All to make June more of a  legend. 

“We’d hoped when Ms. Osborn was in Toronto, things would finally settle down.” So did we all, Commander, so did we all. But nope, it’s still all about June. I hope she gets Hannah back already so we can move on and focus on someone else, someone more interesting (wouldn’t be a very difficult feat). 

And does every episode have to end with her sour face? Whenever there is less than half a minute left, you know the camera is going to start zooming in on her. The camera person must be rolling his eyes each week. 

On 9/21/2022 at 10:52 AM, MichaelaRae said:

I knew this episode was not directed by Elisabeth Moss before the credits rolled - her face wasn't staring directly into the camera for a cumulative 5 minutes throughout the episode.

Oh but it did. Twice. You must be becoming immune to it by now. 😆

[goldilocks]

On 9/21/2022 at 10:52 AM, MichaelaRae said:

but still wondering why they didn't just keep her to make her a handmaiden later. Y'all are just letting fecund uteri go now?? 

I was waiting with bated breath during that scene. I was sure they were going to say she can now do her duty as a handmaid producing offspring for the wives, now that she’s proved fruitful and is unmarried.  And of course take away her baby when it’s born. So disappointed. I’d love to see the Gileadeans commenting “Blessed be the fruit” to her as she saunters around in her red robe and white wings. 

[jenn31]

12 minutes ago, goldilocks said:

I was waiting with bated breath during that scene. I was sure they were going to say she can now do her duty as a handmaid producing offspring for the wives, now that she’s proved fruitful and is unmarried.  And of course take away her baby when it’s born. So disappointed. I’d love to see the Gileadeans commenting “Blessed be the fruit” to her as she saunters around in her red robe and white wings. 

Praise be. Happy Ceremony, Serena Joy!

[Redrum]

7 hours ago, steph369 said:

“I thought you’d be taller.” Grooooan, how old is that line?

I was really laughing at the line and I wish June had responded with "Opinions vary". 

Sorry, I thought it was funny as hell. 

[jenn31]

6 minutes ago, Redrum said:

I was really laughing at the line and I wish June had responded with "Opinions vary". 

Sorry, I thought it was funny as hell. 

She should have said she shoots bolts of lightning from her ass… Moss thinks she’s in a Braveheart movie. 

[goldilocks]

On 9/21/2022 at 9:35 PM, Redrum said:

I normally like Anne Dowd’s acting, but that was really bad to me. I didn’t feel any emotion at all and she just was so OTT, at least to me.

On 9/21/2022 at 9:35 PM, Redrum said:

Also I agree with whoever said that Ann Dowd was overdoing it.

She can’t fathom how to deliver the pathetic lines. 😀The scenario has become so ridiculous, even Ann Dowd can’t save the show. 

-

Edited September 23, 2022 by goldilocks

[jenn31]

7 hours ago, steph369 said:

And does every episode have to end with her sour face? Whenever there is less than half a minute left, you know the camera is going to start zooming in on her. The camera person must be rolling their eyes each week.

Yep, that really grinds. I’d love for them to veer off unnoticed in the last seconds and film the stars in the sky. And hope they slip the editor a little something to keep it in the footage. 

[Cinnabon]

9 hours ago, Redrum said:

My small counter argument is that she's still a prisoner, isn't she? Not free to do as she likes and to go where she pleases. 

Didn’t Tuello tell her that she was finally a “free woman” when he was trying to convince her not to stay in Gilead? It’s confusing, for sure.

[goldilocks]

24 minutes ago, jenn31 said:

She should have said she shoots bolts of lightning from her ass… Moss thinks she’s in a Braveheart movie. 

And fireballs from her eyes. 😉 The writing is really going downhill. 

[Cinnabon]

48 minutes ago, jenn31 said:

Praise be. Happy Ceremony, Serena Joy!

This is the show we deserve!

[goldilocks]

3 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

Didn’t Tuello tell her that she was finally a “free woman” when he was trying to convince her not to stay in Gilead? It’s confusing, for sure.

Tuello told the guards to put Serena in the detention center “for now”, so maybe she is free, even in Canada. Maybe he thought she’d be safer there and it was for her protection temporarily? They are unclear with the information. 

[jenn31]

1 minute ago, goldilocks said:

And fireballs from her eyes. 😉 The writing is really going downhill. 

I can almost guarantee that bit was Moss’s input. 

[aghst]

Did Serena face the ICC like Fred last season?

I thought June or some other former handmaids dropped the dime on Serena, like how she participated in the rapes?

[Kel Varnsen]

6 minutes ago, goldilocks said:

Tuello told the guards to put Serena in the detention center “for now”, so maybe she is free, even in Canada. Maybe he thought she’d be safer there and it was for her protection temporarily? They are unclear with the information. 

Which was also weird, if she was going to be a fake ambassador with a staff and security and an office, why not send those people with her and then set her up in a hotel or something, or wait until arrangements can be made.

[Redrum]

15 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

Didn’t Tuello tell her that she was finally a “free woman” when he was trying to convince her not to stay in Gilead? It’s confusing, for sure.

He was also taking her to detention so to go to your question on while would Serena feel oppressed, its still valid. Also valid is that she's been detained for some time and her lifestyle choice is routinely derided.

Again, playing devil's advocate here - I personally don't think Serena is oppressed or persecuted, but I can see why her sycophants can and will make the argument. 

[chaifan]

42 minutes ago, aghst said:

Did Serena face the ICC like Fred last season?

I thought June or some other former handmaids dropped the dime on Serena, like how she participated in the rapes?

Yes.  If I remember correctly, Serena made an initial deal with Tuello to get Fred within Canadian borders so he could be arrested.  (She used the sat phone Tuello slipped her during their diplomatic visit to Canada.)  She was supposed to get away scott free, plus some vague promises about being able to see Nicole.  Then, she gets implicated for similar crimes - rape, kidnapping, etc.  (not sure what the exact charges are) based upon June's testimony.  So then she was locked up, too.

If I remember right, the ICC was more or less willing to ignore the "ceremonial" rapes, but anything that took place outside the ceremony was fair game for them.  And Serena's behavior outside the ceremonies is what got her in trouble.

What I can't remember, and I really don't want to have to rewatch an entire season to find out, is how Serena got out of these charges.  Fred was going to rat on Gilead in exchange for his cooperation.  Did he include Serena in the deal?  Is that possible?  If so, since he got killed before he could give valuable information, is that deal still valid/on the table? 

[aghst]

So I guess continuity isn't a strength on this show then.

[Cinnabon]

58 minutes ago, aghst said:

Did Serena face the ICC like Fred last season?

I thought June or some other former handmaids dropped the dime on Serena, like how she participated in the rapes?

She did, but I can’t remember the details, lol. I guess I’m lost! 😂

[Baltimore Betty]

I love how The Council sees how smart and strong willed Serena can be, she could rally the troops at her will and stage a coup and that scares the men so they arrange for her to be an ambassador and get her out of their territory.

My question is about the women supporting Serena in Toronto, the women have got to know the truth about Gilead and Serena's crimes in all of it, surely the Canadians know how traumatized the women who get out of Gilead are and terrors they faced...why would any normal woman support Serena?

I would love to know why Nick's wife is okay with what she knows about her husband and June, etc...she seems dedicated to the cause so what is her angle, why does she limp and was it Nick's decision to marry her?

There we have Tuello looking all moony about Serena giving him a kiss on the cheek, I still say there is something off with him.  I did love that she taken back to detention, will she get out because she is now a diplomat?  Why did the driver not get out of the car when June appeared at the car window, didn't Serena have security with her?

Is this the awakening of Lydia, seeing Janine in the hospital and knowing she is part of the system that is responsible for the desperate measures some of the HM's take to escape their lives?

I know I ask a lot of questions.

[Cinnabon]

1 minute ago, Baltimore Betty said:

I love how The Council sees how smart and strong willed Serena can be, she could rally the troops at her will and stage a coup and t

I can’t see that happening at all. She has no real power and she and they all know it.

[dmc]

17 hours ago, SourK said:

Thank you to the Previouslies for reminding me of my favourite moment from last week, which I had forgotten: it's the part where Luke finds out that June cut off a man's finger and sent it through the mail, and he incredulously asks, "How does that help our family?!"

This reminds me of Ozark what have you done today to help your family?

20 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

I can’t see that happening at all. She has no real power and she and they all know it.

Part of the most unbelievable part of the season is everyone acting like Serena has power when she completely does not right now.  Yes she’s incredibly smart but you can be a smart woman with no power. June was a smart woman with no power for several seasons.  She’s technically a refugee still in detention.  She has no assets, no money, no housing, no employment, no family support, no connections except Tuello whose screws people over at the drop of a hat and no country or citizenship.  
 

In Gilead, she would’ve been an unmarried woman in a society that doesn’t appreciate either.
 

How exactly is she powerful?  But the plot the writers came up requires her to be powerful despite the obvious.  The better writing would’ve been to show her being powerful within the confines of her position like June was.  

Edited September 23, 2022 by dmc

[crashdown]

7 minutes ago, Baltimore Betty said:

I would love to know why Nick's wife is okay with what she knows about her husband and June, etc...she seems dedicated to the cause so what is her angle, why does she limp and was it Nick's decision to marry her?

Apparently she limps because of congenital hip dysplasia. My working theory about her is that she's part of Mayday. Nick has been shown to have Mayday ties throughout the series, although they haven't really been emphasized (and it's been hard to figure out just exactly where he stands with them--he wants to help June, sure, but does he want to help take down Gilead from within?). He's a very circumspect guy, and I find it hard to believe that he'd spill his guts to a stranger that he's only known for a couple of months about something that would get him put on the wall. We've seen a Mayday underground of Marthas and handmaids. I think we're going to see that there's also a Mayday underground of Wives and Aunts, and that's going to be extremely interesting.

[chaifan]

31 minutes ago, crashdown said:

My working theory about her is that she's part of Mayday.

oooh, that's a great theory, and I really hope you're right.  I've always thought Nick was boring, and a rather useless character for all the time he's been around.  This would be a great plot line for him.  

And I've also been wanting a plot line around wives who are part of the resistance.

I hope you're right on all of this. It would be incredibly interesting.  Way better than more close ups of June's face.

[Quickbeam]

Yeah, I need to know way more about Nick’s wife…because she’s currently the character I find most interesting. 

[lucindabelle]

Count me amount those very confused. Do not get why Serena was allowed to go to gilead at all- we certainly do NOT allow political prisoners to go home for funerals- and then why Tuellonwould meekly allow her to be out of his sight so often.

an ongoing issue for me is that Gilead is not even 10 years old. Because Hanna was not a one year old when taken. And yet it’s full of formal funeral rites and thousands of other traditions and young teens who seem to have grown up in it- which is impossible.

EVERY adult female in gilead can read. Every. One. Because they all grew up elsewhere. The collective amnesia is preposterous.

If gilead had been in existence for a decade before they stole Hannah then maybe but nope. We saw how the coup went down.

i thought Lawrence sort of set Serena up and I really DID hope they’d make her a handmaid. Cuz otherwise it made Lawrence tough to read.

the vigil fans are old by now. Ineffective.

serens LOATHED Fred by the end. I miss that. No continuity here.

[kitkat343]

11 hours ago, chaifan said:

oooh, that's a great theory, and I really hope you're right.  I've always thought Nick was boring, and a rather useless character for all the time he's been around.  This would be a great plot line for him.  

And I've also been wanting a plot line around wives who are part of the resistance.

I hope you're right on all of this. It would be incredibly interesting.  Way better than more close ups of June's face.

We know Commander Lawrence's wife strongly opposed how women were treated in Gilead, and we also saw Emily in a posting with a genuinely kind Wife, who fell conveniently ill each month at the time of the Ceremony.  It would be quite interesting to explore the experiences of women like these more, and the show can certainly cut down air time of June staring at the camera in order to introduce their experiences. 

[Baltimore Betty]

18 hours ago, chaifan said:

Way better than more close ups of June's face.

If June smooshed her face against my car window I'd jump too! 

10 hours ago, lucindabelle said:

Count me amount those very confused. Do not get why Serena was allowed to go to gilead at all- we certainly do NOT allow political prisoners to go home for funerals- and then why Tuellonwould meekly allow her to be out of his sight so often.

THIS!! 

He is charmed and attracted to Serena, has been since day one, I almost feel like his feelings get in the way of his job sometimes, why wouldn't his higher ups assign a female to Serena in addition to Tuello in case Serena had to use the bathroom or what have you. 

6 hours ago, kitkat343 said:

We know Commander Lawrence's wife strongly opposed how women were treated in Gilead, and we also saw Emily in a posting with a genuinely kind Wife, who fell conveniently ill each month at the time of the Ceremony.  It would be quite interesting to explore the experiences of women like these more, and the show can certainly cut down air time of June staring at the camera in order to introduce their experiences. 

I bet a lot of the original wives would jump on the bandwagon for a rebellion now that they see how their life is going, their husbands go to Jezebel's, schtup a handmaid once a month while they watch, the women have no rights at all and can't even read a book if they want...did they know it was going to be like that for them?  

[iMonrey]

Quote

Would Canada let Gilead set up a post or embassy? I wouldn't think so.

Gah! This makes zero sense! How can Gilead Commanders promise Serena a staff and a budget and protection if she's in another country that - if they are not actively at war with - is at the very least not an ally of theirs. Especially if her status is dictated by Canadian authorities.

Back in the first episode of the season there was some dialogue between Serena and Tuello about her applying for asylum so maybe they were prepared to let her go free. But if that's the case, why did Tuello need to accompany her to Gilead for the funeral? And why is she being taken back to the detention center upon her return to Canada? 

Do the writers understand this, but aren't explaining it well? Or is this just really bad writing that doesn't make any sense? 

[crashdown]

5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Back in the first episode of the season there was some dialogue between Serena and Tuello about her applying for asylum so maybe they were prepared to let her go free. But if that's the case, why did Tuello need to accompany her to Gilead for the funeral? And why is she being taken back to the detention center upon her return to Canada? 

So just to waste more of my time, I went back and rewatched all of the Tuello/Serena episodes that would shed light on Serena's status. The upshot is that she's still in custody of the ICC, but there's every expectation that the judges will ultimately rule to give her back her immunity because Fred withdrew the rape, etc. charges that he had made against her when he decided that they needed to present a united front. (That was the only reason that she was arrested by the ICC in the first place, since the Nick/June sex setup was outside of the laws of Gilead and therefore not at the behest of the state. Serena had no choice but to follow the laws of Gilead about the handmaid stuff, but this wasn't that.) Since she's still in custody, it makes sense that Tuello has to babysit her. He explained the lavishness of everything as an apology for the fact that Fred's "change of itinerary" was improperly communicated to her. So that's all within the bounds of "acceptable" in the world of television. What doesn't work at all is the fact that Serena apparently thought that she could just remain in Gilead, and Tuello didn't question her. If she's in custody, she's in custody--she can't just leave if she feels like it. I wish they hadn't been quite so sloppy there.

[chocolatine]

51 minutes ago, crashdown said:

What doesn't work at all is the fact that Serena apparently thought that she could just remain in Gilead, and Tuello didn't question her. If she's in custody, she's in custody--she can't just leave if she feels like it. I wish they hadn't been quite so sloppy there.

If she's in custody, she should have never been allowed to go back to Gilead in the first place. That was the fundamental flaw with this storyline, so now a bunch of other hand-wavy things need to happen to make that premise work.

[crashdown]

1 hour ago, chocolatine said:

If she's in custody, she should have never been allowed to go back to Gilead in the first place.

Says who? She's not in Canadian custody--she's an ICC detainee. I don't see why the ICC can't decide that it's ok for her to visit her country of citizenship to bury her husband. Why would you think otherwise? They make the rules, and their rules certainly aren't restricted to one particular country or other.

[chocolatine]

2 minutes ago, crashdown said:

Says who? She's not in Canadian custody--she's an ICC detainee. I don't see why the ICC can't decide that it's ok for her to visit her country of citizenship to bury her husband. Why would you think otherwise? They make the rules, and their rules certainly aren't restricted to one particular country or other.

Because the ICC doesn't have jurisdiction in Gilead, so they have no control over what happens to her there (whether by her own choice or that of the Gilead council). It's almost the same as releasing her from custody altogether.

[BrindaWalsh]

Those Serena fans were originally also Serena and Fred fans.  I can see now where Fred is dead that they are even more sympathetic with her, enamored by her Gileadedness on the face of adversity.  Keep in mind that in pre-Gilead, Serena was known and had a fanbase then too, at least according the book.  She'd go on TV and preach her lunacy, she wrote her book, her ideas were certainly out there.

Even ISIS had female sympathizers, in spite of what we knew about life in Raqqa.  Serial killers receive love letters in the mail. Hell, look at some of what's happening in our own country today and try to wrap your head around some of the more rabid "fandom."

I guess I'm saying that there are a lot of mentally delusional people out there and trying to understand that is kind of pointless as it makes no sense.

[iMonrey]

Quote

I don't see why the ICC can't decide that it's ok for her to visit her country of citizenship to bury her husband. Why would you think otherwise? 

There should have been every expectation that authorities in Gilead would seize Serena immediately upon entry and either put her on a wall or at least take her baby and refuse to surrender her. The idea that we're expected to believe Gilead believes she's some innocent bystander is sheer nonsense and a lot of hand-waving to keep up the tiresome Serena versus June narrative they've been hitting the reset button on since Season 2. This is bordering on fan fiction at this point. There's no way the commanders would have been talked into throwing an elaborate, televised funeral for Fred when they had just made a trade to get him back so they could try him for high treason and hang him. There's no way Serena should think she could just waltz back into Gilead, be welcomed with open arms and assume a position of power. Her husband was a traitor and she was his appendage, and if they expect us to believe Gilead isn't aware of her involvement or doesn't care they don't think much of our intelligence.

[Cinnabon]

12 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

There should have been every expectation that authorities in Gilead would seize Serena immediately upon entry and either put her on a wall or at least take her baby and refuse to surrender her. The idea that we're expected to believe Gilead believes she's some innocent bystander is sheer nonsense and a lot of hand-waving to keep up the tiresome Serena versus June narrative they've been hitting the reset button on since Season 2. This is bordering on fan fiction at this point. There's no way the commanders would have been talked into throwing an elaborate, televised funeral for Fred when they had just made a trade to get him back so they could try him for high treason and hang him. There's no way Serena should think she could just waltz back into Gilead, be welcomed with open arms and assume a position of power. Her husband was a traitor and she was his appendage, and if they expect us to believe Gilead isn't aware of her involvement or doesn't care they don't think much of our intelligence.

And they expect us to believe that they thought the rest of the world would be impressed with the ostentatious, public funeral of a terrorist.

[aghst]

1 minute ago, Cinnabon said:

And they expect us to believe that they thought the rest of the world would be impressed with the ostentatious, public funeral of a terrorist.

And why would they meet Serena with candlelight?

Candlelight vigil if someone is sick or died recently.

But if there's a crowd trying to get close to a passing car -- how did they know when and where she'd land and the path the car would be traveling? -- what is the use of lit candles?

[Redrum]

3 minutes ago, aghst said:

But if there's a crowd trying to get close to a passing car -- how did they know when and where she'd land and the path the car would be traveling? -- what is the use of lit candles?

Its a nice visual, basically.

[Helena Dax]

Sometimes a society can change completely in way less than ten years, like Nazi Germany. Nazis were also big when it came to aesthetics and loved their parades and ceremonies so the fact that Gilead looks older than its age isn't a big deal to me. Having said this , I would LOVE to meet the guy in charge of creating funerals, particicutions etc. Not only has he got a good sense of style, he's fast as fuck!

Edited September 25, 2022 by Helena Dax
Grammar

[circumvent]

On 9/23/2022 at 2:04 PM, Baltimore Betty said:

My question is about the women supporting Serena in Toronto, the women have got to know the truth about Gilead and Serena's crimes in all of it, surely the Canadians know how traumatized the women who get out of Gilead are and terrors they faced...why would any normal woman support Serena?

Religious cults are ripe for collective hysteria. There is a documentary about a grifter of a fundamentalist mormon community where the leader is jailed and a proven corrupted rapist but thousands of people still follow him, through his communications via attorneys and visitors. 

On 9/23/2022 at 10:45 PM, lucindabelle said:

Count me amount those very confused. Do not get why Serena was allowed to go to gilead at all- we certainly do NOT allow political prisoners to go home for funerals- and then why Tuellonwould meekly allow her to be out of his sight so often.

an ongoing issue for me is that Gilead is not even 10 years old. Because Hanna was not a one year old when taken. And yet it’s full of formal funeral rites and thousands of other traditions and young teens who seem to have grown up in it- which is impossible.

EVERY adult female in gilead can read. Every. One. Because they all grew up elsewhere. The collective amnesia is preposterous.

If gilead had been in existence for a decade before they stole Hannah then maybe but nope. We saw how the coup went down.

Excellent points, which summarize the laziness and sloppiness of the writing and production. 

1 hour ago, Helena Dax said:

Having said this , I would LOVE to meet the guy in charge of creating funerals, particicutions etc. Not only has he got a good sense of style, he's fast as fuck!

The funeral thing was just to justify the title - Ballet - and juxtapose that with the actual Ballet performance June was attending, then go to the closing of the episode on June seeing the funeral on the big screens and seeing Hannah. Basically they decided what they wanted - that ending - and went backwards from there, fuck continuity or context within the story they have been trying to tell (even if nobody can even tell what story that is) 

It was beautiful though, the cinematography and the editing.

[Anela]

3 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

And they expect us to believe that they thought the rest of the world would be impressed with the ostentatious, public funeral of a terrorist.

And rapist on multiple fronts (previous handmaid, June, the women at the club, etc). 

[Redrum]

3 minutes ago, Anela said:

And rapist on multiple fronts (previous handmaid, June, the women at the club, etc). 

Like, Fred was a scumbag rapist I agree, but this aspect of Gilead is pretty much exactly what the high council of Gilead thinks is good citizen behavior.

It's the whole "Fred betrayed Gilead and gave secrets to the enemy" that REALLY should have put the kibosh on the massive state funeral. I don't mind hand waving a little bit but the whole 'Serena is a prisoner of the US/Canada and is allowed under the mildest of escorts to prance down to Gilead to demand a state funeral for the guy who openly betrayed Gilead because she tricked him and isn't immediately enslaved as a Handmaid for her insolence" has been a bit much to swallow.