S01.E03: Dream a Little Dream of Me

[Meredith Quill]

Quote

Morpheus tracks down the last-known person in possession of his sand — and receives an unexpected lesson on humanity. Ethel pays a visit to her son.

[PurpleTentacle]

I was like "Constantine? Something to do with Demons? Is that a deliberate reference?"

I had totally forgotten that Sandman is DC for a moment. It feels so far removed from the other DC stuff.

I liked that interpretation of them. Always liked Jenna Coleman as an actress, even though Clara Oswald is probably my least favorite DW companion... well I guess there is Jaz now... so never mind.

Btw. that's not a raven and neither was that "raven" in the first episode. Ravens are massive birds. This is closer to a crow. Of course the most apt description would be bad CGI-abomination, but you know suspension of disbelief and all that...

[starri]

I had a lot of negative reaction to Jenna Coleman's casting because I HAAAAAAAAAATED Clara, even though I acknowledge her performance was good.  And John Constantine is such an iconic character (and, if I'm being completely honest, one I find attractive), the gender bending was a little iffy for me.  But both actor and character were awesome.  

[formerlyfreedom]

Three episodes in and I think this has finally gotten me. I find the lead to be really good for this character, he definitely has an otherworldly presence to him, and then to have Jenna Coleman's natural, hmm, I'll go with natural perkiness? It's a really interesting contrast, and one I'm enjoying. I will say, as much as I like Patton Oswalt, not sure he's working for me as the 'not-a-raven'. I watched Happy!, and I'm getting flashbacks to that show.

Also interested to see where we go with John Burgess.

[thuganomics85]

So, is Johanna an ancestor of John Constantine or was John in the original series and they just swapped genders here?  A lot of her backstory was certainly similar.  Either way, I enjoyed seeing more of her character.  Always liked Jenna Coleman (probably one of the few Claire Oswald fans out there), so I'm all for her getting bigger roles.  Hope we see the character again.

Patton Oswalt as Matthew the Raven was something.  He did good with the material that was written for him, but this was definitely more comedic compared to most everything else on the show.  Have a feeling he won't be enjoying the trip to Hell though!

Surprised Ethel is already gone and John Burgess might be more of a threat going forward.  That amulet sure is effective!  But now the Corinthian is on his trail as well, so I'm sure that will cause issues going forward.

[Chicago Redshirt]

2 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

So, is Johanna an ancestor of John Constantine or was John in the original series and they just swapped genders here?  A lot of her backstory was certainly similar.  Either way, I enjoyed seeing more of her character.  Always liked Jenna Coleman (probably one of the few Claire Oswald fans out there), so I'm all for her getting bigger roles.  Hope we see the character again.

The original graphic novel featured John Constantine doing similar things to Johanna Constantine here. They took the classic backstory of John Constantine having a backstory of being haunted by an exorcism gone bad and dreaming about it many nights and gave it to Johanna. (I think you watched Legends of Tomorrow, so you may remember Astra from that series as well. In the graphic novel version of the story, Rachel was a drug user who dated John but stole the pouch and other stuff to get more drugs, and was more blatantly using the sand as a drug. The graphic novel also had an ancestor of John Constantine named Johanna Constantine who runs into Morpheus around 1789.

[Aulty]

Jenna Coleman did a great job here, if the plot wasn't so weak and the sand to easily retrieved this would've been the best episode.
And Matthew, I have a thing for opinionated animal sidekicks.

[Affogato]

On 8/5/2022 at 10:28 AM, PurpleTentacle said:

I was like "Constantine? Something to do with Demons? Is that a deliberate reference?"

I had totally forgotten that Sandman is DC for a moment. It feels so far removed from the other DC stuff.

I liked that interpretation of them. Always liked Jenna Coleman as an actress, even though Clara Oswald is probably my least favorite DW companion... well I guess there is Jaz now... so never mind.

Btw. that's not a raven and neither was that "raven" in the first episode. Ravens are massive birds. This is closer to a crow. Of course the most apt description would be bad CGI-abomination, but you know suspension of disbelief and all that...

They did remove a lot of the DC references. I liked Coleman as johanna Constantine, and I think it was a good choice to have Johanna in the role, but the actual comic it is taken from was more affecting to me. I think it is the depth of character that Constantine, that Constantine, not the Dcurrent one, brought to the situation. I could also have done without the dream sex.

I wondered if it was an actual bird. If cgi why wouldn't they have made it the right size. Ravens are unbelievably huge.

[QuantumMechanic]

I wasn’t expecting an import of a bit of an actual Hellblazer story! I wonder if that’s just used as a character piece or if they’ll come back to it. While I didn’t like Coleman in Doctor Who I’m liking her here. Doing a nice job, IMHO, of the John Constantine attitude and vibe.

Also, I’m kind of enjoying the pre-90s pace of the show. I hope that doesn’t sink it with the modern fast cuts/short attention span audience though.

(Also a bit jarring to see Prof. Lupin as a bad guy 😀)

[Pi237]

I like Patton, but I’ve heard him voice too many animated characters. Every time he speaks as the raven, it takes me right out of the scene. He’s usually great, but not for this. 

[Enigma X]

I also am not enamored with Patton Oswalt as the raven. It is a jarring shift in tone when he speaks.

[AnimeMania]

I guess Morpheus is starting to realize that other people might have useful ideas as well. Maybe by the end of the TV series he will be a character that people actually like.

[Bruinsfan]

I don't know if that would necessarily be true to the source material, though I suppose audience sympathy toward him will grow with familiarity.

Jenna Coleman was channeling Mark Sheppard HARD in her performance, but then his whole career has basically been playing versions of that stock con-artist character.

I like Patton Oswalt in general, but his voice completely breaks immersion for me every time Matthew speaks.

[Bruinsfan]

On 8/7/2022 at 1:52 PM, Chicago Redshirt said:

Netflix Sandman seems to have cut loose most of the references to superheroes, however. I think that's a smart change.

That may be a matter of DC-owned intellectual property created by people other than Gaiman.

Spoiler

For example, while Squatterbloat was the doorkeeper of Hell in the original comics, he didn't speak in rhyme or guide Dream to his audience with Lucifer. That was Etrigan, a longtime DC comics character rather than an original creation or a figure from real world foklore and mythology. I'd imagine that's why John Constantine became Johanna as well.

Edited August 8, 2022 by SilverStormm
tagged

[Morrigan2575]

17 hours ago, Pi237 said:

I like Patton, but I’ve heard him voice too many animated characters. Every time he speaks as the raven, it takes me right out of the scene. He’s usually great, but not for this. 

He doesn't work as the Raven for me. He was fine as Happy! but, his voice is just wrong in this, IMO.

I really really hated Clara and that has unfortunately carried over to this role. Doesn't help that, they just basically gender swapped John Constantine and, kind of toned down his darker storyline.  I understand there were contract/legal related issues but, it didn't work for me. 

It's a pity because there nothing awful about Coleman's performance I just can't separate her from my Clara hatred LOL 

3 episodes in and I'm thinking my expectations were to high for this series.

With all that going on, if feels awful to overlook Richardson and Thewlis scenes which were really interesting. I truly wasn't sure if they were playing each other until the very end. 

[JustHereForFood]

On 8/6/2022 at 10:16 AM, Chicago Redshirt said:

  Hide contents

The original graphic novel featured John Constantine doing similar things to Johanna Constantine here. They took the classic backstory of John Constantine having a backstory of being haunted by an exorcism gone bad and dreaming about it many nights and gave it to Johanna. (I think you watched Legends of Tomorrow, so you may remember Astra from that series as well. In the graphic novel version of the story, Rachel was a drug user who dated John but stole the pouch and other stuff to get more drugs, and was more blatantly using the sand as a drug. The graphic novel also had an ancestor of John Constantine named Johanna Constantine who runs into Morpheus around 1789.

Spoiler

And as I understand it, since Johanna will appear in more episodes and John would only be in this one, they decided that Jenna could play both characters, so they didn't have to cast a separate actor to play such an iconic character for one episode.

I really liked Jenna's performance here. I love John as a character and I was wondering how he would work as a female character and it went surprisingly well. I love how Matt Ryan played him, so I would prefer him also here, but different studios ...

And as offtopic, I liked Clara in Doctor Who 😜.

[Zuleikha]

I liked modern day Johanna Constantine a lot. However, I didn't like the twist at the end with Rachel and the sand. I can't remember how much that was or wasn't like the story in the graphic novel, but I don't think Johanna would be so unaware of extremely powerful magical items or so careless with them. That didn't fit the character.

I think the show should have had a conversation where Morpheus and Johanna were both shocked that Rachel had been able to open the pouch and access the sand (since Johanna had said earlier that she couldn't open the pouch)... maybe even shown a flashback of the Corinthian opening it for Rachel.

Ethel and John were really good, even if Ethel's love for her son blinded her to how stupid she was being. I think one of the hardest part of this series is going to be how little we get to spend with interesting characters. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

9 hours ago, Zuleikha said:

I liked modern day Johanna Constantine a lot. However, I didn't like the twist at the end with Rachel and the sand. I can't remember how much that was or wasn't like the story in the graphic novel, but I don't think Johanna would be so unaware of extremely powerful magical items or so careless with them. That didn't fit the character.

I think the show should have had a conversation where Morpheus and Johanna were both shocked that Rachel had been able to open the pouch and access the sand (since Johanna had said earlier that she couldn't open the pouch)... maybe even shown a flashback of the Corinthian opening it for Rachel.

Ethel and John were really good, even if Ethel's love for her son blinded her to how stupid she was being. I think one of the hardest part of this series is going to be how little we get to spend with interesting characters. 

In the comic:

Just as Johanna, John never figured out how to get the pouch's drawstrings to open. He had been dating Rachel, but she was a junkie. So she stole a bunch of stuff including the pouch, his TV, his Silver Surfer comics to feed her habit. Rachel somehow figured out how to get the pouch open and was using it to get high. As part of using it, there was dream magic around that caused a few obstacles for John and Morpheus. John found himself in a dream suddenly falling and had to be rescued by Morpheus. There were a bunch of dreams who were guarding Rachel who Dream had to command to leave them. They get to Rachel who was in a far more decayed state than this Rachel, and Morpheus does a similar "Well, I got my pouch. Later" before John stops him. Morpheus does give her a similar dream of a happily-ever-after walk in the sunset with John, which rings more hollow since unlike Johanna, it did not particularly seem like John had any deep feelings for Rachel. Also, John is the one to ask for an end to his nightmares about the botched exorcism, whereas Netflix Morpheus voluntarily does it.

[tennisgurl]

I have been really interested in Jenna Coleman as Joanna Constantine since she was introduced, taking over for the one and only bad boy of the mystic arts John Constantine, and while I am not sure how I feel about her being given so much of John's Hellraiser backstory, I think that Jenna was really good and I am digging this version of the character so far. I think I was mostly surprised because I assumed she would be another Constantine relative and not an actual gender flip of John, but taking it as it is this works pretty well. I had pretty mixed feelings on Clara by the end of her time on Doctor Who, but I always thought that Jenna did a good job with what she was given, so I am happy to see her here. I am not sure if its a legal choice or a stylistic one to remove many of the comics ties to the DC universe, but I am fine with it so far. Its weird to see any version of John Constantine who isn't Matt Ryan though. 

I do find it a bit funny that we are introduced to Matthew the Raven in the same episode where we get to know a character played by Jenna Coleman, considering how ravens played a big part in Clara's story. I thought the scenes between Joanna and Dream were really interested, they did a lot to humanize him while also showing his strange distant way of dealing with the world. I hope she comes by again, I liked her a lot.

I hope that the show continues to keep around minor supporting characters, I was happy to see Mad Hetty pop up. Patton as Matthew the Raven is a bit strange, he has such a district voice it takes me out of the story a bit when he talks, but I am glad that they have introduced Matthew early in the story, we really need the comic relief. 

The scenes between John and Ethel was quite engaging, I am really interested in seeing how this plays out. 

Edited August 8, 2022 by tennisgurl

[Zuleikha]

12 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

In the comic:

That makes more sense for Constantine and plot. I think the change could have worked as an opportunity to make the Corinthian meddle more, but as it was, it just seems like a weird choice.

[magdalene]

I liked Jenna Coleman as both a young Victoria and Clara so it is a pleasure to see her here. Is her character supposed to be a gender-swapped version of the KR character Constantine? I am not reading comments on purpose until I get further into the story to stay "fresh" so to speak.

Edited August 10, 2022 by magdalene

[ItCouldBeWorse]

3 minutes ago, magdalene said:

Keanu Reeves.  I saw that movie years ago.

Right.  Keanu is playing the comic book character, but it is only a partially faithful adaptation of the comic books.  He's not even British! And no sex or swearing that I recall.

However, I still love the movie.

Edited August 10, 2022 by ItCouldBeWorse

[nomodrama]

I really like Jenna Coleman, even though I do not know her from Doctor Who as I've never watched that (gasp!). I'm not sure if I enjoyed her as "Constantine." Her sarcastic, street smart, con artist portrayal might be true to Constantine traits from the Comics that I am not familiar with, my only other exposure to the character is from the KR movie. It just seems based on Constantine's backstory that he/she would be a bit more "hard," sort of cranky, world weary and haunted.....I didn't get that from Jenna, even after they shared her nightmare.  Maybe more of that will come as she appears in more episodes. 

Also, in regards to Constantine's nightmare, that was disturbing. 

[Ottis]

On 8/8/2022 at 1:12 AM, Zuleikha said:

However, I didn't like the twist at the end with Rachel and the sand.

That was a twist? I don't know the backstory on any of these characters, so maybe I missed it. I just saw it as part of the story. And honestly, I'm not all that excited about the story. "Watch the ethereal Dream as he ... retrieves stolen items!" Doesn't grab me. The worldbuilding is interesting, because I know nothing about it. The actual plot? Meh.

[ombre]

50 minutes ago, Ottis said:

That was a twist? I don't know the backstory on any of these characters, so maybe I missed it. I just saw it as part of the story. And honestly, I'm not all that excited about the story. "Watch the ethereal Dream as he ... retrieves stolen items!" Doesn't grab me. The worldbuilding is interesting, because I know nothing about it. The actual plot? Meh.

I can't remember how it came across in the comics, but here - where the plot is so streamlined - I think it serves well to show what the real focus is.  The foreground plot (imprisoned dude gets free and goes on quest to retrieve items) is so trite as to be genuinely boring.  But as always, when you're riding with Gaiman, the actual story is something different.  I can't remember where the rest of the storyline will go, but in these first episodes the real subject is something more along the lines of what is the value/the place of arts/dreaming/creativity in life/society?  

[Ottis]

1 minute ago, ombre said:

I can't remember how it came across in the comics, but here - where the plot is so streamlined - I think it serves well to show what the real focus is.  The foreground plot (imprisoned dude gets free and goes on quest to retrieve items) is so trite as to be genuinely boring.  But as always, when you're riding with Gaiman, the actual story is something different.  I can't remember where the rest of the storyline will go, but in these first episodes the real subject is something more along the lines of what is the value/the place of arts/dreaming/creativity in life/society?  

Thank you. If THAT is the story, I would love it. Maybe that becomes more apparent as we go. 

[lucindabelle]

Why is this show constantly putting me to sleep? Is it because everyone talks in the same low tone? I think I’m out. I just can’t follow this.