S06.E08: Point and Shoot

[JudyObscure]

6 hours ago, scenario said:

You don't know how people will react. I always thought that Kim was very tightly wound. Very under control. Some people will clamp down on their emotions and some will be overwhelmed by something like this. 

No we don't know how real people will react but Kim is a fictional character and good writers usually keep their characters "in character" unless they give us some explanation for the change.  I'd like to know why  this woman of sterner stuff who doesn't need anyone else to take care of her was frantically clinging to Jimmy and obediently following Lalo and Jimmy's orders.

[Penman61]

8 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

No we don't know how real people will react but Kim is a fictional character and good writers usually keep their characters "in character" unless they give us some explanation for the change.  I'd like to know why  this woman of sterner stuff who doesn't need anyone else to take care of her was frantically clinging to Jimmy and obediently following Lalo and Jimmy's orders.

Of course response to a performance is subjective, ymmv, et al.

But I would replace the bolded word above with desperately. I’d add that the hours after watching Howard’s murder at point-blank range—from point-blank range—are 100% terra incognita emotionally for Kim. And this is wholly new for us watching her. Finally, I’ll note that Kim—within an hour—went from watching said murder to being willing to shoot a stranger in the face to save Jimmy. Sterner stuff, indeed.

[Starchild]

Y'all it just occurred to me that we could be seeing some Macbeth shit up in here with Jimmy and Kim.

Lady Macbeth pushes her husband into an evil deed. He doesn't really want to but she manipulates him into it. At the beginning she's all steel. Then as things start to go sideways, he screws his courage to the sticking place and gets on with it, while she starts seeing invisible blood on her hands, goes nuts and offs herself. (Spoiler)

I wonder if J&K will follow a similar path.

After all, as I said in a comment on episode 1 of this season, this show is poetry.

[sistermagpie]

16 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

No we don't know how real people will react but Kim is a fictional character and good writers usually keep their characters "in character" unless they give us some explanation for the change.  I'd like to know why  this woman of sterner stuff who doesn't need anyone else to take care of her was frantically clinging to Jimmy and obediently following Lalo and Jimmy's orders.

2 minutes ago, Penman61 said:

Of course response to a performance is subjective, ymmv, et al.

But I would replace the bolded word above with desperately. I’d add that the hours after watching Howard’s murder at point-blank range—from point-blank range—are 100% terra incognita emotionally for Kim. And this is wholly new for us watching her. Finally, I’ll note that Kim—within an hour—went from watching said murder to being willing to shoot a stranger in the face to save Jimmy. Sterner stuff, indeed.

Yeah, I didn't see anything there that was OOC for Kim. She's not a gangster who deals with this sort of thing all the time--or ever. She had good reason to freak out and question her life choices even before she thought Jimmy was going to be killed. She still kept it together enough to drive over, not talk to the cops, give info to Mike and go to court the next day. That to me seems like a person of stern stuff suddenly having to punch way above her weight class. (If that metaphor makes sense--I don't know boxing.) I would have found it unbelievable if she was more like Mike, for instance.

[scenario]

35 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

No we don't know how real people will react but Kim is a fictional character and good writers usually keep their characters "in character" unless they give us some explanation for the change.  I'd like to know why  this woman of sterner stuff who doesn't need anyone else to take care of her was frantically clinging to Jimmy and obediently following Lalo and Jimmy's orders.

Kim has classic PTSD. She's in shock. Her mind is disconnected from her body. She's not capable of forming a coherent thought. That sometimes happens to people who witness something traumatic. Seeing someone you've known for years brutally and casually murdered a few feet in front of you is going to be traumatic for just about anyone. They called it shell shock in the first world war and combat fatigue in the second world war. It happens. 

[SimplexFish]

Earlier we discussed maybe Kim would see the vacuum man and who would pay that fee...what is it $250k?  Lets not forget Jimmy is about to receive a financial windfall from HHM after settling the Sandpiper case. Also remember they picked up and read the vacuum mans card at the Vets office in his "book to the magic kingdom", and we know that Saul ends up with that book...  hmmmm

Edited July 13, 2022 by SimplexFish

[Cinnabon]

13 hours ago, scenario said:

So two middle aged married lawyers came up with a Rube Goldberg plot to embarrass a fellow lawyer. It works and the lawyer comes to their house drunk and maybe high in the middle of the night. Then they ruthlessly kill him, dispose of his body without a trace, drive his car hundreds of miles away without leaving a trace of evidence and Jimmy's at his office at 9:20 and Kim's in court at 10:00 the next morning.

They didn’t ruthlessly kill him. Lalo did.

[Cinnabon]

11 hours ago, Starchild said:

The surface events of a cocaine-fueled suicide would be automatically suspect, and federally investigated.

Unfortunately, this isn’t true. Lots of people commit suicide after consuming cocaine and/or other drugs, and few are federally investigated. Local police are often happy to close these cases quickly.

[Razzberry]

 The current direction was established right off the bat.  They knew his shoes and other items would wash ashore and that's why they brought them.  It's not a big deal breaker for me, but it could be for someone investigating the disappearance.

[Starchild]

31 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

Unfortunately, this isn’t true. Lots of people commit suicide after consuming cocaine and/or other drugs, and few are federally investigated. Local police are often happy to close these cases quickly.

Yes that's what I said, though perhaps not clearly. If the FBI dug into it even just a little bit, they'd see the inconsistencies between the con and the reality, and they would suspect it might not have been a suicide (or at least the Jimmy and Kim were more involved than they'd admitted), spurring them to go deeper and uncovering everything.

Since that didn't happen (or didn't seem to, since Saul is still practicing), then the circumstances of Howard's death must not have been looked at very hard. Even though it's an FBI case (car found in a different state), it seems even with their resources they didn't look below the surface.

[sistermagpie]

37 minutes ago, Starchild said:

Yes that's what I said, though perhaps not clearly. If the FBI dug into it even just a little bit, they'd see the inconsistencies between the con and the reality, and they would suspect it might not have been a suicide (or at least the Jimmy and Kim were more involved than they'd admitted), spurring them to go deeper and uncovering everything.

In a way, Jimmy and Kim's tricks against Howard argue against them having a motive to kill him. It's not even like it led to his death, exactly. I mean, it literally did in that if they hadn't done it Howard wouldn't have been at their house at the absolute worst moment, but it's not like if the drug they slipped him killed him, for instance.

[Starchild]

Yeah, they would likely not be charged with a felony. However, their behaviour would get them disbarred.

One of the trailers had Kim reciting the oath of office, which included the words "I will conduct myself uprightly .... I will never seek to mislead the judge or jury by any artifice or false statement of fact or law"

Clearly what they did violated the oath. Either they weren't found out, or Kim took the full blame for it.

[scenario]

2 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

They didn’t ruthlessly kill him. Lalo did.

That's the point. The cops are trying to put together a theory of who killed Howard. The  pieces don't fit together. 

[scenario]

1 hour ago, Razzberry said:

 The current direction was established right off the bat.  They knew his shoes and other items would wash ashore and that's why they brought them.  It's not a big deal breaker for me, but it could be for someone investigating the disappearance.

The shoes were left on the beach like that's where Howard left them. Howards shoes were perfectly polished. He wouldn't swim in them. The tide came in and washed one of them further up the beach and pulled the other one slightly off shore. The current 10 feet from the beach is not the same as it would be if you swam a half a mile or a mile off shore. 

[PeterPirate]

1 hour ago, scenario said:

The shoes were left on the beach like that's where Howard left them. Howards shoes were perfectly polished. He wouldn't swim in them. The tide came in and washed one of them further up the beach and pulled the other one slightly off shore. The current 10 feet from the beach is not the same as it would be if you swam a half a mile or a mile off shore. 

Some years ago some teenagers I knew had a riptide experience off the northern California coast.  They went in a diagonal direction from their beach position towards a bunch of surfers, which meant they went towards where the waves were strongest.  Fortunately someone shouted to them to swim parallel to the shore, which they did.  Their screams also attracted the attention of the surfers who assisted in getting them back to land.  

[Emma Snyder]

9 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

No we don't know how real people will react but Kim is a fictional character and good writers usually keep their characters "in character" unless they give us some explanation for the change.  I'd like to know why  this woman of sterner stuff who doesn't need anyone else to take care of her was frantically clinging to Jimmy and obediently following Lalo and Jimmy's orders.

Kim always felt energized, dare I say invincible, after she & Jimmy would pull off their little scams. This one, however, came with an extreme consequence that she never could have imagined. I think it's realistic that she would have such an extreme reaction.

Actually, seeing both of their arrogance turn to terror was quite glorious. They finally were in a situation they couldn't scam their way out of.

[Milburn Stone]

I don't know why it occurred to me during this episode, because it applies to all the episodes, but maybe Kim and Jimmy's sacrifice for each other is what put it in my head.

Namely, they're the only characters in the show who have devoted partners.

Howard had a wife, but they seem to be estranged at best.

Gus, Mike, Lalo, Cliff--nada. As with Howard, we never even see what they do for temporary companionship. I think it would be a mistake for the show to develop such partner-characters; but not ever to show them, or have them so much as referred to in conversation, is making a point.

The only time we see women for any of the men is when the men are lower-level functionaries and the women are basically whores. I suppose some of Jimmy and Kim's public defendants have wives, but those characters are far off satellites in the overall scheme of the show. We do know of the devoted wife of the head German engineer, but she is literally far off. It's as if the male characters not only don't have even temporary companionship, it's as if they don't need even temporary companionship.

I'm not at all saying it's illogical the male characters other than Jimmy would lack partners. It's totally logical. It's just interesting. I think it helps create the feeling of Jimmy/Kim as the only human characters at the center of an inhuman universe.

Edited July 13, 2022 by Milburn Stone

[Starchild]

I think it's also a way of streamlining the story-telling, making it more efficient. How events might affect these other peoples' partners is not central to the story, with the exception of Jimmy and Kim, since they are both central characters and married to each other.

[Ellaria]

11 hours ago, SimplexFish said:

Earlier we discussed maybe Kim would see the vacuum man and who would pay that fee...what is it $250k?  Lets not forget Jimmy is about to receive a financial windfall from HHM after settling the Sandpiper case. Also remember they picked up and read the vacuum mans card at the Vets office in his "book to the magic kingdom", and we know that Saul ends up with that book...  hmmmm

Perhaps this is an unpopular opinion but I will be disappointed if the “vacuum man” solution is used for Kim. It shouldn’t be the definitive storytelling choice for the main characters in this universe. I think - I hope - that these writers are better that.

4 hours ago, Emma Snyder said:

Kim always felt energized, dare I say invincible, after she & Jimmy would pull off their little scams. This one, however, came with an extreme consequence that she never could have imagined. I think it's realistic that she would have such an extreme reaction.

Actually, seeing both of their arrogance turn to terror was quite glorious. They finally were in a situation they couldn't scam their way out of.

Agree. We know that Jimmy moves forward as a “criminal lawyer.” I’m hoping that Kim does not. I want her to acknowledge her bad decisions and choose a different way of life. 

Edited July 13, 2022 by Ellaria Sand

[peeayebee]

8 hours ago, scenario said:

That's the point. The cops are trying to put together a theory of who killed Howard. The  pieces don't fit together. 

I think the pieces fit together, but it all depends on whether the police are curious enough  to pursue it. It looks like a suicide. Drugs in the car. Erratic behavior at the last meeting which led to humiliation. Estranged from wife. 

The police interview people. His wife will say she never saw a sign of drug use, but Howard could have hid it from her. Coworkers confirm how strangely he acted in the meeting. Did Cliff believe Howard's explanation of Jimmy setting him up? Hard to say. He has experience with a drug addict (his son) who probably did a lot of lying and excuse-making, so Cliff is primed to disbelieve Howard.

I don't see why people at the condo would report Howard's car having been in the parking lot, but if someone does, then the police interview Jimmy & Kim. They say how erratic Howard was behaving and that he seemed to be high. 

It all seems like 'case closed' to me.

[scenario]

3 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

I think the pieces fit together, but it all depends on whether the police are curious enough  to pursue it. It looks like a suicide. Drugs in the car. Erratic behavior at the last meeting which led to humiliation. Estranged from wife. 

The police interview people. His wife will say she never saw a sign of drug use, but Howard could have hid it from her. Coworkers confirm how strangely he acted in the meeting. Did Cliff believe Howard's explanation of Jimmy setting him up? Hard to say. He has experience with a drug addict (his son) who probably did a lot of lying and excuse-making, so Cliff is primed to disbelieve Howard.

I don't see why people at the condo would report Howard's car having been in the parking lot, but if someone does, then the police interview Jimmy & Kim. They say how erratic Howard was behaving and that he seemed to be high. 

It all seems like 'case closed' to me.

You've got two cases. Howard acting erratic but Jimmy and Kim helping that along. And Howard actually getting murdered. If your the police and look really hard, you can find evidence that Kim and Jimmy were up to no good. 

But to jump from that to Jimmy and Kim murdered someone they knew in cold blood, disposed of the body, moved his car hundreds of miles away and got back in time to go to work the next morning seems far fetched. 

[Milburn Stone]

33 minutes ago, Starchild said:

I think it's also a way of streamlining the story-telling, making it more efficient. How events might affect these other peoples' partners is not central to the story, with the exception of Jimmy and Kim, since they are both central characters and married to each other.

Oh, totally. I just think there's more. I mean, we don't even get a scene where Gus picks up the phone and says "I told you not to call me when I'm working!"

[monagatuna]

23 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Perhaps this is an unpopular opinion but I will be disappointed if the “vacuum man” solution is used for Kim. It shouldn’t be the definitive storytelling choice for the main characters in this universe. I think - I hope - that these writers are better that.

I agree with you. The stories of Saul, Walt, and ultimately Jesse ended with the vacuum man. (Not spoilering because El Camino was two years ago.) All the other major players found their end on the business end of a gun or explosive device. I like to think that, at the functional end of the BB-verse, the writers will be more creative and not just default to the vacuum cleaner man. I really hope that business card we focused on a few eps ago is a red herring. I think Kim deserves better, and so do the viewers.

Though I will say, even if we do have to see another vacuum-related disappearance, I'm optimistic that getting there will be interesting, at least. I rewatched El Camino last night and the way they handled Jesse's pursuit of that option was pretty creative. 

[Eulipian 5k]

23 hours ago, Bannon said:

However, the Howard as a drug addict story simply would not hold up. Getting a hair sample from Howard's home would quickly show that he wasn't a habitual drug user.

Howard hasn't lived with his wife for six months. She doesn't know what hairbrush he used or when the hair in it is from so they can't rule out drug usage. Jimmy and Kim need to demolish their apartment; the blood spatter evidence is indelibly soaked into the walls and floors. Their only hope is no suspicion of them; thus the car being found 5 states away.

[scenario]

7 minutes ago, monagatuna said:

I agree with you. The stories of Saul, Walt, and ultimately Jesse ended with the vacuum man. (Not spoilering because El Camino was two years ago.) All the other major players found their end on the business end of a gun or explosive device. I like to think that, at the functional end of the BB-verse, the writers will be more creative and not just default to the vacuum cleaner man. I really hope that business card we focused on a few eps ago is a red herring. I think Kim deserves better, and so do the viewers.

Though I will say, even if we do have to see another vacuum-related disappearance, I'm optimistic that getting there will be interesting, at least. I rewatched El Camino last night and the way they handled Jesse's pursuit of that option was pretty creative. 

I wouldn't mind it as a side story. Kim tries it and fails.

[Starchild]

12 minutes ago, Milburn Stone said:

Oh, totally. I just think there's more. I mean, we don't even get a scene where Gus picks up the phone and says "I told you not to call me when I'm working!"

Well, in Gus' case specifically, we know he's alone and why, based on scenes from BB.

But I get what you're saying. 

[limestation]

On 7/11/2022 at 10:07 PM, Spartan Girl said:

Rot in hell, Lalo.

Maybe it's just me but I HATED this character and wanted him gone the sooner the better. With his goofy smirk, he reminded me of a hapless uncle or a bumbling brother on some cheap Telenovela farce, hardly the dangerous mastermind that could go up against the awesome magnificence of one Gus Fring!!!! No swagger and zero menace. Mike is scarier. Way, way scarier!!!

Well done, Kim! You really looked terrified!

[JudyObscure]

What do you suppose would have happened if Kim had left the gun in the glove box, knocked on Gus's door and said, "Lalo Salamanca is holding my husband hostage until I get back with a photo of you dead.  Can't we fake a photo somehow?"

[PeterPirate]

58 minutes ago, Eulipian 5k said:

Jimmy and Kim need to demolish their apartment; the blood spatter evidence is indelibly soaked into the walls and floors. Their only hope is no suspicion of them; thus the car being found 5 states away.

I think there will be a lot of suspicion about J&K's involvement in Howard's disappearance.  I wonder if the police will try but fail to obtain a search warrant for their place.  

1 hour ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Perhaps this is an unpopular opinion but I will be disappointed if the “vacuum man” solution is used for Kim. It shouldn’t be the definitive storytelling choice for the main characters in this universe. I think - I hope - that these writers are better that.

I think that is a rather popular opinion.  I happen to hold the opposite (and unpopular) opinion--they should write whatever story best fits the characters and the larger BB universe.  I for one did not like the introduction of a brand new bad guy for Jesse to defeat in El Camino.  

2 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

I don't know why it occurred to me during this episode, because it applies to all the episodes, but maybe Kim and Jimmy's sacrifice for each other is what put it in my head.  Namely, they're the only characters in the show who have devoted partners. 

I agree.  They have Gift Of The Magi level devotion to each other.  I am positively flummoxed by all the chatter I hear online about how recent events are going to drive them apart.  That's why, barring some other explanation, I think the vacuum man solution is the best fit to explain why Kim is not around by the time Saul gives the guy a call for himself.  They are apart, but because they have to be, not because they want to be.  

But, then again, there's the Viagra in Saul's bedroom.  I really have no clue about how they are going to stick the landing.  

Edited July 13, 2022 by PeterPirate

[Starchild]

17 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

What do you suppose would have happened if Kim had left the gun in the glove box, knocked on Gus's door and said, "Lalo Salamanca is holding my husband hostage until I get back with a photo of you dead.  Can't we fake a photo somehow?"

Since that would have had the same results (distracting security away from the laundry), I think it would have gone down exactly the same way.

5 minutes ago, PeterPirate said:

But, then again, there's the Viagra in Saul's bedroom.  

Hey a man's gotta eat

[peeayebee]

1 hour ago, scenario said:

You've got two cases. Howard acting erratic but Jimmy and Kim helping that along. And Howard actually getting murdered. If your the police and look really hard, you can find evidence that Kim and Jimmy were up to no good. 

My point is that the police would have no reason to look more at the case unless someone, like Cliff, says that he believed Howard's story of being set up by Jimmy, and I don't think Cliff believed him.

I suppose it all depends on whether an individual police detective is the doubting kind. If there's someone like a Columbo who has a natural drive to dissect the situation and evidence, then the investigation could lead to J&K. I doubt that will happen. I think it's more likely that the police, probably overworked and faced with an apparent open-and-shut case, will accept everything as true.

Also, I don't think it would be interesting narratively for the show to become a detective story. To me it's much more interesting to see Jimmy and/or Kim be consumed by their guilty consciences and PTSD... or NOT be visibly affected, becoming stonier, sterner. 

Of course I could be surprised. I can see Hank being the dogged agent, though I'm not sure exactly how he'd become involved in the case.

[PeterPirate]

17 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

My point is that the police would have no reason to look more at the case unless someone, like Cliff, says that he believed Howard's story of being set up by Jimmy, and I don't think Cliff believed him.  

It might be in Cliff's best interest to tell the police he believed Howard had been set up.  Otherwise he could be sued by the Sandpiper residents for knowing they were getting ineffective counsel.  For that matter, J&K's share of the settlement might also be at risk.  

And let's not forget about Lady Liberty.  One way or another we need to see the Kettlemans again to explain how she stands atop Saul's office.    

So I am pretty sure that someone is going to raise a stink about Howard's disappearance and the cocaine found in his car.  

And, I must say, that was a mighty large hole dug into the floor of the superlab.  

[Ellaria]

31 minutes ago, PeterPirate said:

I think that is a rather popular opinion.  I happen to hold the opposite (and unpopular) opinion--they should write whatever story best fits the characters and the larger BB universe.  I for one did not like the introduction of a brand new bad guy for Jesse to defeat in El Camino.  

Not quite understanding your comment but...

Saying that the writers should write the story that best fits the charcters is not an unpopular opinion. Why would it be? I have confidence in these writers...more so than many other TV writers. 

Having said that, I would not be thrilled if Kim ends up at the "vaccum man." That is simply my opinion. However, I'm happy to see how it all plays out and equally happy to be wrong

[Emma Snyder]

40 minutes ago, PeterPirate said:

I think there will be a lot of suspicion about J&K's involvement in Howard's disappearance.  I wonder if the police will try but fail to obtain a search warrant for their place.  

I think this is why Mike instructed J&K to go to the police themselves with the story he told them to say. After all, why would a guilty person want to involve law enforcement? Very smart move by Mike. 

[PeterPirate]

1 hour ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Not quite understanding your comment but...

Saying that the writers should write the story that best fits the charcters is not an unpopular opinion. Why would it be? I have confidence in these writers...more so than many other TV writers. 

Having said that, I would not be thrilled if Kim ends up at the "vaccum man." That is simply my opinion. However, I'm happy to see how it all plays out and equally happy to be wrong

Yes, my previous post requires clarification.  Based on comments I have read here and elsewhere, I think a number of people dislike the vacuum solution for Kim because it is cliché and trite.  I think I am in the minority because I favor that solution, which I do because I think it is the best fit. 

I will be ecstatic if they tie up all the loose ends into a neat package so I don't have to fulminate over a dramatic but illogical ending.  I'm still pissed about the crappy way they ended The Closer.   After 7 seasons of Brenda Leigh outsmarting criminals, they concluded with her shooting Phillip Stroh, in her home, while her FBI agent husband just happened to be out of town.  Arrrrrrrrrrgh.

Edited July 13, 2022 by PeterPirate

[JudyObscure]

1 hour ago, Starchild said:

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

What do you suppose would have happened if Kim had left the gun in the glove box, knocked on Gus's door and said, "Lalo Salamanca is holding my husband hostage until I get back with a photo of you dead.  Can't we fake a photo somehow?"

Since that would have had the same results (distracting security away from the laundry), I think it would have gone down exactly the same way.

That's what I think, too, I just wondered if I was missing something. 

I just don't understand why Kim thought she really had to murder a man to keep Jimmy safe.  Of course she didn't know Mike would be right there, but Lalo hadn't said anything about being able to track her every movement.  I guess I don't like to think she would be willing to do that without being positive there was no other option and that it would be certain death for Jimmy if she didn't.

[monakane]

2 hours ago, monagatuna said:

I agree with you. The stories of Saul, Walt, and ultimately Jesse ended with the vacuum man.

I don't think the vacuum man is an option.  The actor who played the part, Robert Forster, died a couple of years ago.

[peeayebee]

1 hour ago, PeterPirate said:

And let's not forget about Lady Liberty.  One way or another we need to see the Kettlemans again to explain how she stands atop Saul's office.    

Ahhhh, the Kettleman wild card. I forgot about them. If they come forward, I think they'd try to blackmail J&K. What happens next... well, watch out, Betsy.

25 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

I just don't understand why Kim thought she really had to murder a man to keep Jimmy safe.  Of course she didn't know Mike would be right there, but Lalo hadn't said anything about being able to track her every movement.  I guess I don't like to think she would be willing to do that without being positive there was no other option and that it would be certain death for Jimmy if she didn't.

I would say she wasn't in her right mind, or her usual mind. If she was, she might decide that she could talk to her 'target' and, as someone suggested, have him agree to pose for a photo that showed she had shot him. However, she was not thinking rationally. She had been thru A LOT, to say the least. Her brilliant mind was not functionally well.

[sistermagpie]

2 hours ago, Starchild said:

Since that would have had the same results (distracting security away from the laundry), I think it would have gone down exactly the same way.

2 hours ago, PeterPirate said:

Yes, that's basically what *did* happen. She told them what was going on and didn't shoot anyone.

[Bannon]

3 hours ago, Eulipian 5k said:

Howard hasn't lived with his wife for six months. She doesn't know what hairbrush he used or when the hair in it is from so they can't rule out drug usage. Jimmy and Kim need to demolish their apartment; the blood spatter evidence is indelibly soaked into the walls and floors. Their only hope is no suspicion of them; thus the car being found 5 states away.

 He's been living in the casita next to the main house. Yes, it is physically possible that the hairbrush in the bathroom he's been using doesn't contain hair follicles from the previous 90 days, but it's exceedingly unlikely. That's before we get to the reality that his hair will be in his car, as well.

[lilysmom]

I always enjoy reading this blog. Since I am not a detail oriented person, I miss so much that the rest of you notice and comment about. Thank you all!

In addition, I have difficulty seeing visual details when the lighting is darkened (as in the lab scene where Gus and Lalo had their showdown). So I am hoping someone with night vision can tell me, how did Lalo get shot? I don't think he would have been dumb enough to let Gus sneak a gun in on his body. I have watched it twice and still have no clue. 

[scenario]

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

That's what I think, too, I just wondered if I was missing something. 

I just don't understand why Kim thought she really had to murder a man to keep Jimmy safe.  Of course she didn't know Mike would be right there, but Lalo hadn't said anything about being able to track her every movement.  I guess I don't like to think she would be willing to do that without being positive there was no other option and that it would be certain death for Jimmy if she didn't.

Kim has the image of Howard dying seared in her brain. She's terrified. She's just saying over and over in her head that if she doesn't do what Lalo wants, Jimmy will be dead. She's not thinking. Every time she tries to think Howard's dead body pops up in her head. 

Realistically, if she did kill her target why would Lalo leave them alive? All the evidence points to them. If they die nothing leads to him. But Kim isn't thinking logically. If Lalo didn't die, they were going to die one way or the other. 

Telling the cops wouldn't do her any good. If Lalo is waiting in their apartment, Jimmy's dead as soon as they see a cop even if they come without uniforms. 

Either Lalo's waiting and their dead or Lalo isn't and they might live. She's just trying to string it out as much as possible. 

[Soobs]

Not having a body, it's very hard to prove murder today and the show takes place awhile ago when it was even harder.  However, in addition to the private investigator, Ed Begley Jr. knew Jimmy and Kim where up to something. He and Howard talked about it and he sort of believed Howard. He's definitely going to mention that conversation to the police. Also, Kim won't be able to totally hide it. She's seen a lot less action than Jimmy. It'll be interesting to see how this goes.

I didn't love Howard but damn, they did him so dirty, even if it wasn't intentional.

[anoninrva]

7 minutes ago, lilysmom said:

I always enjoy reading this blog. Since I am not a detail oriented person, I miss so much that the rest of you notice and comment about. Thank you all!

In addition, I have difficulty seeing visual details when the lighting is darkened (as in the lab scene where Gus and Lalo had their showdown). So I am hoping someone with night vision can tell me, how did Lalo get shot? I don't think he would have been dumb enough to let Gus sneak a gun in on his body. I have watched it twice and still have no clue. 

Gus hid a gun earlier during the construction.  It seemed forecasted that he would confront Lalo.  I'm with you on TV shows being too dark. BCS/BB aren't as bad as others.  There were some unwatchable scenes in The Walking Dead or Game of Thrones. I think the Sopranos had some bad lighting too.

[nodorothyparker]

3 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I just don't understand why Kim thought she really had to murder a man to keep Jimmy safe.  Of course she didn't know Mike would be right there, but Lalo hadn't said anything about being able to track her every movement.  I guess I don't like to think she would be willing to do that without being positive there was no other option and that it would be certain death for Jimmy if she didn't.

Lalo told her she had to be back in a hour, with the drive taking 20ish minutes each way. She was screaming at Mike and crew that "Lalo is going to kill Jimmy," that she only has 20 minutes left. So she obviously took it seriously enough that her brain that just saw Howard murdered in front of her was unable to process anything else in that short window of time except that she had no choice but to do this and hurry back as she was on the clock. Panicky people often don't make particularly good or well thought out decisions, which Lalo was no doubtedly counting on in giving her that deadline.

That scene is up on YouTube now and Rhea Seehorn is just so good in it, the way she cuts through all the panicky breathing to close her eyes and pull out the gun the moment the light through the peephole disappears and the door starts to open.

[PeterPirate]

19 minutes ago, anoninrva said:

Gus hid a gun earlier during the construction.  It seemed forecasted that he would confront Lalo.  I'm with you on TV shows being too dark. BCS/BB aren't as bad as others.  There were some unwatchable scenes in The Walking Dead or Game of Thrones. I think the Sopranos had some bad lighting too.

Plus, Gus used the flashes from Lalo's gun to know where to shoot.  That's something I didn't anticipate in a post in the Speculation thread.  

2 hours ago, monakane said:

I don't think the vacuum man is an option.  The actor who played the part, Robert Forster, died a couple of years ago.

They could hire another actor to play the part.  And these days, it could be almost anyone.   

[peeayebee]

1 hour ago, PeterPirate said:

Plus, Gus used the flashes from Lalo's gun to know where to shoot. 

I was surprised by Gus's face as he fired the gun repeatedly. He looked desperate and scared, like a kid. I thought he had somehow missed his mark, so it was satisfying to see Lalo laying on the ground bleeding and gasping for breath.

[lilysmom]

2 hours ago, anoninrva said:

Gus hid a gun earlier during the construction.  It seemed forecasted that he would confront Lalo.  I'm with you on TV shows being too dark. BCS/BB aren't as bad as other,s.  There were some unwatchable scenes in The Walking Dead or Game of Thrones. I think the Sopranos had some bad lighting too.

Thanks! No wonder I didn't remember that. I thought for a while maybe it was the ricochet from Lalo's shooting and that he shot himself!

[Starchild]

2 hours ago, Soobs said:

However, in addition to the private investigator, Ed Begley Jr. knew Jimmy and Kim where up to something. He and Howard talked about it and he sort of believed Howard. He's definitely going to mention that conversation to the police. Also, Kim won't be able to totally hide it. She's seen a lot less action than Jimmy. It'll be interesting to see how this goes.

I didn't love Howard but damn, they did him so dirty, even if it wasn't intentional.

Cliff is a key figure. The one provable fact he could tell police is that someone tricked Howard's firm into entering false contact info for their regular PI firm. It will be interesting to see if that clue is followed up.

I'm also really interested in seeing how Kim responds to Cliff asking why she skipped that meeting on the same day Howard so eloquently outlined J&K's scheme to Cliff. Not to mention that's the same day he disappeared, never to be found again.

[Adiba]

2 hours ago, lilysmom said:

I always enjoy reading this blog. Since I am not a detail oriented person, I miss so much that the rest of you notice and comment about. Thank you all!

In addition, I have difficulty seeing visual details when the lighting is darkened (as in the lab scene where Gus and Lalo had their showdown). So I am hoping someone with night vision can tell me, how did Lalo get shot? I don't think he would have been dumb enough to let Gus sneak a gun in on his body. I have watched it twice and still have no clue. 

I’m glad I’m not the only one who misses details because the lighting is so damn dark in many scenes, particularly in this episode! Mike’s white head looked like it was floating around without a body sometimes. And Saul and Kim’s place— do they not have good lighting? The fish tank seems to be well-lit, at least.