S04.E08. I Feel Like a Cow

[QQQQ]

"Barry reaches out to Ethan after two years with shocking news; Ethan's hesitation about seeing his mom leaves Kim feeling excluded from an important family discussion; Moriah and Olivia rebel against their past and try pole dancing."

Ethan is a twatwaffle. However, I would imagine he feels a lot of rage toward Kim since they effectively severed their relationship. Now Ethan finds out that Kim's pulled a 180 and is the coolest mom evah. Yet she hasn't reached out to admit she was wrong. So Ethan's a martyr and Kim's a hypocrite.

Edited July 6, 2022 by QQQQ

[SunnyBeBe]

Kim’s male friend sure is vocal about something he knows nothing about.  What about Kim’s parenting should be admired?  What a nut.  Barry seemed to be lying about why he and Kim were splitting.  I don’t believe anything he said.  

[Cancun]

I was waiting for Ethan’s eyes to bug out when Barry said Kim didn’t feel Barry gave her a voice. Because I think Ethan saw it as just the opposite.

[Salacious Kitty]

Just now, Cancun said:

I was waiting for Ethan’s eyes to bug out when Barry said Kim didn’t feel Barry gave her a voice. Because I think Ethan saw it as just the opposite.

Yup. Ethan said that Kim was the neck that turned the head. 

[gingerella]

3 hours ago, QQQQ said:

Ethan is a twatwaffle. However, I would imagine he feels a lot of rage toward Kim since they effectively severed their relationship. Now Ethan finds out that Kim's pulled a 180 and is the coolest mom evah. Yet she hasn't reached out to admit she was wrong. So Ethan's a martyr and Kim's a hypocrite.

I can empathize with Ethan though because Kim was a witch to his wife, and that's being kind. IIRC she said that Olivia was the devil or something equally nasty. That would be enough to make me never want to talk to her again. Ethan has born her psycho fundie life style and rules the longest and he knows full well how much Kim's rules fucked him up and made him struggle out in the real world and he's struggling as a result. If I were him.abd heard my mother suddenly has done an about face and thrown all the bullshit, damaging rules she inflicted on him now out the window for the remaining kids at home? I'd be bullshit mad too knowing the damage was already done to me. Nope, I'd tell Kim to fuck off too. And I dont believe for a minute that Kim was controlled by Barry! 

Watching Moriah and Olivia learn pole dancing was...interesting? Unfortunately Moriah could excel at being a stripper but I hope she doesn't go down that path as a way to 'find herself'.. However, while her singling voice leaves much time be desired, her ballroom.dancing was excellent. I thought it interesting that Olivia felt so awkward and selfish conscious considering she's very beautiful and has a great body.

[Gharlane]

5 hours ago, QQQQ said:

"I Feel Like a Cow". Barry reaches out to Ethan after two years with shocking news; Ethan's hesitation about seeing his mom leaves Kim feeling excluded from an important family discussion; Moriah and Olivia rebel against their past and try pole dancing.

I found myself staring at the clock and wondering if time had stopped for an entire hour this week. Having had a workout session with my personal trainer earlier in the evening didn't help. 

I thought it was inappropriate for Barry to tell Ethan the news about his separation and potential d-i-v-o-r-c-e in front of the rest of the family, who already knew. When he said he had been stifling Kim, I reflexively rolled my eyes and laughed at that ridiculous statement. 

Sorry, but pole dancing classes are super sleazy to me; TBH, I was more interested in the man in the background wearing ballet tights.

Before they introduced that man Kim met as a friend of the family, I thought they were about to reveal Kim was having an affair. 

There's something else I wanted to comment on, but I cannot seem to remember what it was.

[Back Atcha]

13 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Kim’s male friend sure is vocal about something he knows nothing about.  What about Kim’s parenting should be admired?  What a nut.

Kim, Barry et al presented that "perfect family" the rare times they were around others.  That's the only thing Kim's male friend knows...and he's sitting there (all starry-eyed?) believing every pronuncement from the Beautiful New Dancing Butterfly.

8 hours ago, Gharlane said:

When he said he had been stifling Kim, I reflexively rolled my eyes and laughed at that ridiculous statement. 

Barry has been brainwashed for 24 years!  Stockholm Kim Syndrome.

[applewood]

Regarding Kim's friend, I thought Lydia said something in a previous episode when she was hanging out with her church friends about her parents not having any friends and she didn't want to be like that. I guess they had to "produce' a friend for Kim.

Kim keeps saying something about she's not heard in the relationship and is being shut down but I guess the impression that she wears the pants in the family and she was the one making all the rules for the family.

On another thought, did Kim always wear so much makeup? I don't remember that last season. She looks like she's already looking for husband number 2.

[bichonblitz]

Ethan is seriously eff'd up. When Barry was talking to him I could see him seething underneath. We get to see next week that he is treating Olivia like crap again and not communicating with her. He should let go of the marriage because he doesn't know how to be a husband and go work on himself. Maybe go to California with Micah and try to find himself. He has alot to figure out. I don't blame him if he never speaks to Kim again. She really messed him up. I just don't get why Micah and Moriah are so ready to forgive her for being such a horrible shrew. 

I felt bad for the kids sitting there listening to Barry. They all looked so broken.  

[Madding crowd]

The little kids look like they are so lonely. They homeschool with Lydia and get so excited if someone new comes to the house. It really seems like all the kids are closer to Barry than Kim and I find her very unlikable. But I’m sure Barry had or has the exact same beliefs, he is just quieter. I don’t think Ethan is wrong to be suspicious that Kim could suddenly turn into a fun, tolerant person. He also knows he can’t discuss this with Olivia without her getting upset. 

[Calibabydolly]

I think Olivia just felt like a cow next to Moriah, who looks like she's anorexic as of late. Moriah just knows how to dance better is all. It comes naturally to her? (You know with her mother being a dance instructor and all!?)

Could this have been an audition for Dancing with the stars? I had to keep doing a double take when they showed her ballroom dancing! She looked fantastic, I agree with the former poster on that. With the right practice and partner, I'd guess Moriah could have finally found her talent! Lots better than her guitar and singing. Not good.

[Mothra]

Kim needs to live at home to be there for the little kids, but Lydia (who has a full-time job) has to do the home-schooling?

And that "friend of the family" was their real-estate agent.  They apparently have no friends.

What, exactly, is Barry's "side?"  He explained what Kim had told him about his shortcomings as a husband--you can tell she is sure he is bad-mouthing her, and she is straining at the bit to bad-mouth him--but there really isn't anything to tell other than that Kim doesn't want to live their life any more; that Barry isn't filling her Love Tank; and she has decided that all the shit rules she imposed on her children were simply "overprotection."

If she were a real woman, she would tell her family that she has realized that she made big mistakes in decisions about how they should grow up, that Barry supported her through this, but now that she has figured out (partly through observing her children who've flown the nest) what she wants her life to be, she can't stay married to Barry.  She has to be free to have a dance studio and drink tequila.  Anybody could understand that.

And yet, there is Lydia in her Prayer Closet, with letters to god pasted on the walls....  How do you ever fix that damage?

[Salacious Kitty]

I think the only child in that family who stays with the fundie beliefs is Hosanna, the one who got away (she is in Ohio) before Kim had her midlife crisis. I think even Lydia will back off the prayer closet and mainstream herself.

[bichonblitz]

1 hour ago, Mothra said:

Kim needs to live at home to be there for the little kids, but Lydia (who has a full-time job) has to do the home-schooling?

The homeschooling with the little ones sounds sporadic at best. Lydia said she wasn't there every day. She shouldn't be the one responsible for educating these kids. Shame on Kim. Big fucking shame on her. How does this woman sleep at night? 

Edited July 7, 2022 by bichonblitz

[ChristmasJones]

Is there anywhere to watch the past seasons of this show? I randomly started watching it last season and the family estrangement caught my attention as we have that in mine.  I view Barry and Kim as the classic passive dad / controlling-narcissistic mother couple. This is such a common pairing it seems. 

[gingerella]

12 minutes ago, ChristmasJones said:

Is there anywhere to watch the past seasons of this show? I randomly started watching it last season and the family estrangement caught my attention as we have that in mine.  I view Barry and Kim as the classic passive dad / controlling-narcissistic mother couple. This is such a common pairing it seems. 

All the past seasons are on Cox cable I think, and on TLC online probably. 

[Gharlane]

5 hours ago, ChristmasJones said:

Is there anywhere to watch the past seasons of this show? I randomly started watching it last season and the family estrangement caught my attention as we have that in mine.  I view Barry and Kim as the classic passive dad / controlling-narcissistic mother couple. This is such a common pairing it seems. 

I think I saw old eps in Comcast's "On Demand" section.

Yeah, that's my take on Kim and Barry.

[spacefly]

19 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

He has alot to figure out. I don't blame him if he never speaks to Kim again. She really messed him up. I just don't get why Micah and Moriah are so ready to forgive her for being such a horrible shrew. 

I think Moriah & Micah have been hurt by her personally but she is their mother and many people forget/forgive the horrible things their parents do. Ethan will have a more difficult time as she hurt the woman he loves. I think we all are easier to forgive when it's personal and react a bit more intensely and are more protective of the ones we love.

Ethan seems to be terribly damaged by his parents actions and may have a more difficult time dealing with the hypocrisy due to his personality and the way he processes the information. 

[lightninggirl]

I'm 100% for a woman, or any individual for that matter, to branch out and explore new things - and that extends to breaking from your norm and from your previous way of life. I love that Moriah is ballroom dancing, and I love that she and Olivia are taking pole classes (that is a SERIOUS workout and engages muscles that you didn't even know existed on your body!). HOWEVER, if Kim is making a unilateral decision to up and leave her family, she can't simply walk away from her responsibilities. When I head Lydia asking if Kim was doing Mercy's homeschooling with her or if what Lydia was doing with her sporadically was the extent of it, the anger just started to bubble up. I don't know if TLC is trying to paint Kim as a deadbeat mother, but she looks terrible. Even more terrible than usual.

Birthing 10 kids and raising 9 is a serious undertaking. I'm raising my 1yo grandbaby and she goes to daycare 3 days/week, and I'm EXHAUSTED. I cannot imagine 8 more of her ALL AT THE HOUSE ALL OF THE TIME, homeschooling and cooking and cleaning and laundry all while trying to be a good wife. She made the choice to not school her children outside of the home or have help or even really have friends, so she made the decisions to isolate herself and therefore make her lifestyle more difficult for her. It is not lost on me that if this separation/divorce story is real, she's probably seeing green at the life that her emancipated/adult children are leading. Factor in that she HAD a wild teenage/young adult life before she married Barry and went Quiverfull (or whatever cult they fell into), and she's probably feeling left behind.

But feeling behind or not, she still has minor children who truly need her at home. I just don't understand the 180 from "I was born in the dining room" to "Barry, you've had too many chances and I want a divorce." I'm wondering if Barry had much more to do with this than we're seeing.

[SunnyBeBe]

There are some support groups for adults who suffered from fundies as kids.  I’ve read some of their sites.  Ethan might benefit from them.  Each person handles things differently.  If he forgives, that’s up to him.  It doesn’t mean he would have to welcome his mom back into his life.  His father is responsible too.

As far as the divorce goes……With toxic parents, aren’t the kids better off with as little contact as possible?  I suppose Kim could cook, clean and do laundry, but allow the younger kids to attend school elsewhere.  And see a counselor.  

[Back Atcha]

On 7/6/2022 at 11:11 AM, applewood said:

Regarding Kim's friend, I thought Lydia said something in a previous episode when she was hanging out with her church friends about her parents not having any friends and she didn't want to be like that. I guess they had to "produce' a friend for Kim.

I started to answer this, but looked further.  MOTHRA provided the same answer.  That "friend" was a business associate...a real estate agent who found various properties for the Plaths' investments.

On 7/6/2022 at 11:11 AM, applewood said:

On another thought, did Kim always wear so much makeup? I don't remember that last season. She looks like she's already looking for husband number 2

I'm not sure if there was much change in make-up, but early viewers commented on it.  She could wear make-up and have access to electronic devices...and she probably didn't observe the strict diet she required of her children.  She always had that big splash of lipstick.

23 hours ago, Calibabydolly said:

Moriah just knows how to dance better is all. It comes naturally to her? (You know with her mother being a dance instructor and all!?)

I think we saw many of the children ballroom dancing--sometimes with each other--in earliest seasons.  Apparently Kim (and perhaps Barry) enjoyed ballroom dancing and the children learned various dances early in life.  The older four or five are probably fairly accomplished.

[Mothra]

Moriah likes to perform.  She wants to be a singer, which she does poorly because her voice is so weak and untrained, and now she's found she likes to do ballroom dancing, which is another performing activity.  She's also exploring pole dancing, which she seems to take to like the proverbial.  Being seen and appreciated by an audience is what floats her boat, and good for her if she can find a way to support herself that fulfills her.

She, it seems to me, has always wanted to be seen and admired, particularly by men.  She's the one of the sisters who consistently overdid makeup, setting the gun to "whore" and not just to try out different looks.  She's the one of the sisters whose asscheeks hung lowest from their short-shorts.

So.  Hannah or whatever that oldest one's name is drank the Fla-Vor-Aid (look it up; it wasn't Koolaid) and moved away, laterally, poor Lydia in her prayer closet but also really kind of a bitch in a classic passive-aggressive way, Moriah who wants to be a Whore on Parade--what will become of the younger girls?  They seem wholesome enough now, but the scales have fallen if you know what I mean and they are onto their mother's perfidy.  Maybe the big changes that have occurred, changes in their parents and in their older sisters, that they will somehow--what?  Get to attend high school?  That is my dream for them, especially since no one seems willing/able to school them at home any more (if they ever did).  Get those girls to Cairo High--Go, Egyptians!!!

[Back Atcha]

On 7/8/2022 at 7:25 AM, Mothra said:

Get to attend high school?  That is my dream for them, especially since no one seems willing/able to school them at home any more (if they ever did).  Get those girls to Cairo High--Go, Egyptians!!!

I agree.  They'll each have a bad first year...but after that LIFE should be easier.

[Jeanne222]

I don’t really understand this new living arrangement with Kim back in the home. 

Barry works and is still paying all the bills while Kim dances?

If Lydia is doing the homeschooling and Barry is bringing home pizzas who’s picking up Kim’s slack?

 If she doesn’t want to be a full time mother to the kids maybe they’d be better off with going to school and a full time housekeeper and Kim finding other lodging. 

[BAForever]

Read every comment,  boy we are a smart, insightful bunch. Ethan KNOWS his upbringing impacted his past, present and will affect his future relationships. I would have loved to see him hooked up to a heart monitor or BP cuff during Barry's divorce talk. Now the onus is on him to find counseling to work through his messed up childhood. He knows he is an ineffective communicator. He knows he hurts Olivia. He knows it's due to his nut job parents. Get help buddy, you deserve it.

[Salacious Kitty]

I may be misremembering, but hasn't Olivia suggested counseling for Ethan on past episodes (like last season when they were really going through it)? And Ethan scoffed at the suggestion. 

Maybe now he might see things differently and get himself into therapy.

Edited July 12, 2022 by Salacious Kitty

[BAForever]

1 hour ago, Salacious Kitty said:

I may be misremembering, but hasn't Olivia suggested counseling for Ethan on past episodes (like last season when they were really going through it)? And Ethan scoffed ay the suggestion. 

Maybe now he might see things differently and get himself into therapy.

Salacious Kitty, yes, I do believe that had some relationship counseling. I believe Olivia leaned into it, Ethan not so much. Agree he should try again.

[Madding crowd]

I really like Ethan and Micah, I think they are nice guys trying their best in the world. I don’t dislike Olivia but she seems to think married people talk about their relationship every minute and they don’t. I also think she enjoys being the “worldly” one by hanging around with Moriah all the time and with her acting like she is everyone’s teacher. Perhaps she needs to realize they are all learning, they all have a right to live life the way they want to and having a good guy who adores you is more important than finding one who wants to talk about marriage all the time. 

[Jeanne222]

I don’t think Ethan is in love with Olivia. 

I think a long time ago he was in lust with her but once that wore off they looked at each other and what!

 I don’t think he wants counseling because he doesn’t want the marriage. 

He wants to live in Cairo and work on old cars and motorcycles.

Had he have been raised in a normal family he, like many other teens, would have sown some wild oats then taken a step back. 

Ethan was denied that rite of passage.

He just seems miserable and Olivia is beating a dead horse. 😞 

[magemaud]

On 7/8/2022 at 10:25 AM, Mothra said:

She, it seems to me, has always wanted to be seen and admired, particularly by men.  She's the one of the sisters who consistently overdid makeup, setting the gun to "whore" and not just to try out different looks.  She's the one of the sisters whose asscheeks hung lowest from their short-shorts.

I think it’s just a matter of time before several episodes of this show is devoted to Moriah wanting and getting breast implants 

[charmed1]

On 7/10/2022 at 5:43 PM, Jeanne222 said:

I don’t really understand this new living arrangement with Kim back in the home. 

Barry works and is still paying all the bills while Kim dances?

If Lydia is doing the homeschooling and Barry is bringing home pizzas who’s picking up Kim’s slack?

 If she doesn’t want to be a full time mother to the kids maybe they’d be better off with going to school and a full time housekeeper and Kim finding other lodging. 

I don’t understand it either. She said that she stays at one of their rentals, but if none are available at that time, then she sleeps on the sofa. So why can’t she come see her kids? I thought Barry works in Florida, so unless he’s teleworking, the three youngest children are home alone. If this ridiculous dance studio is her new job, then why aren’t the girls there with her during the day? Those kids must be so bored. 

[Salacious Kitty]

Hopefully Kim has gotten her head out of her ass long enough to realize that those girls need to be enrolled in public school. The show is in March now, so too late for the school year that just ended. 

[Gharlane]

5 hours ago, charmed1 said:

I don’t understand it either. She said that she stays at one of their rentals, but if none are available at that time, then she sleeps on the sofa.

Wait, I thought she permanently moved back in, into the west wing of the Plath mansion?

I also assume the arrrangement makes no sense because it was created for the show.

[charmed1]

28 minutes ago, Gharlane said:

Wait, I thought she permanently moved back in, into the west wing of the Plath mansion?

I also assume the arrrangement makes no sense because it was created for the show.

Did she? I think I’m behind all of you because this show keeps putting me to sleep! No need for a white noise app on Tuesday nights.

[Gharlane]

1 hour ago, charmed1 said:

Did she? I think I’m behind all of you because this show keeps putting me to sleep! No need for a white noise app on Tuesday nights.

Yeah,it was in the previous ep that Kim said she was moving back into their house on the opposite side as Barry, next to the girls' bedrooms, when she "accidentally" let slip she was getting divorced.

Quote

"Eyes Down!". Micah celebrates a wild 21st birthday at a strip club with Ethan and Olivia. Moriah confronts Lydia about her recent meet ups with Max. Kim moves back home, and she and Barry discuss the future of their relationship.

Edited July 13, 2022 by Gharlane
Added synopsis

[GeeGolly]

Hi everybody, I recognize some names from the Duggar threads. 👋🏽

I curiously watched this show the first season, but something always felt, I guess fake, would be the word. Like maybe they had actually lived through some of the changes and were sort of recreating it both in past and present time. It seemed to me Kim was often lying or hiding something. But anyway I watched the second season and found it to be almost too cringy. I watched a few last season and this season has been sitting in my DVR. Recently I happened upon a mini marathon and half watch a few episodes and came here to get others' take on everything. This has been my first stop.

My only comment is Kim still seems to be lying or hiding something.