S01.E02: Castle Leoch

[merewyn]

I didn't think Mrs. Fitz was scared or threatening. I think that she was initially shocked to see Claire, a stranger, in her "shift", dismount with Jamie but I don't think she acted at all sinisterly towards Claire. I think she came across as true to the books - efficient and caring and sensible and practical in the extreme.

I have a dumb question. Claire has given her maiden name, Beauchamp, to avoid the complications that would inevitably ensue should she use her true name, Randall. So one would assume that Beauchamp is her married - her husband's - name, since she is identifying as a widow. But in her conversation with Colum, it sounded to me like he was assuming her own family was the family with whom she planned to reunite in France. And he was suspicious that she hadn't met them or ever been there, etc. Did I miss something - do they all assume or did she say that she herself is of French ancestry?

[jzygayle]

WatchrTina, I noticed the same thing about Mrs. Fitz.  (edited to remove comparisons).  Sorry. 

Edited August 18, 2014 by jzygayle

[Athena]

Just a gentle reminder to take the comparison talk to one of the book topics. Thanks!

[Haleth]

Mrs Fitz creepy? I kept thinking of Mrs Patmore. I was waiting for Daisy to wander in.

Loved the episode. It's been so long since I read the book I have no idea what's to come.

Edited August 18, 2014 by Haleth

[justmehere]

I'm really impressed with the production values of this show. It's much richer than I expected. I love the Gaelic, even if I don't understand it. The voiceovers aren't bothering me much, but the flashbacks keep jarring me out of the show. I think it's natural for Claire to recall the conversations as coping advice, but I think I'd prefer it if those were voiceovers too -- her just remembering Frank's voice within the given scene instead of inserting the visual.

 

The mention of the Revolution didn't bother me. It affected the Brits too!

 

Loving Sam Heughan as Jamie. I was really skeptical about how anyone could play him. He doesn't exactly match my image but he has easily taken it over. Still trying to sort out the male characters other than Colum and Dougal, but I like them (the one "spying" on Claire, and I think I know who Murtaugh is; he just looks so different from what I pictured that I haven't made the clear association yet.)

 

Looked up some images of Toulouse-Lautrec Syndrome in the legs, and some of the x-rays are really bowed.

[Jamoche]

That isn't a typo, that's a reference to a George McFly malapropism in BttF, I believe! Unless you mean some other typo, in which case I humbly apologize

Ah, OK. Not up on the fine details of BttF :)

[annlaw78]

 

And Jamie, especially in the scene with them eating lunch and him recounting his first meeting with the dastardly Capt. Jack Black, really began to come to his own as a character.

 

Nice up-skirt shot, too.  What a pro that Jamie is!

[WatchrTina]

A Highander who is not afraid to squat in his kilt -- that's a man who is secure in his masculinity.  

[nodorothyparker]

It does raise the question, though, for a show set in the Highlands and populated almost entirely by Highlanders, why are so few of them in kilts?

[Athena]

It does raise the question, though, for a show set in the Highlands and populated almost entirely by Highlanders, why are so few of them in kilts?

 

Many if not most of them are wearing kilts I believe, but they are the traditional great kilts. 

[annlaw78]

The biggest hole in Claire's story is why she was going to France from Oxford... via Inverness. That makes no sense.

[ganesh]

I think that was the point though. Her story seemed just off enough that they were suspicious. She could argue that Inverness is a "big city" and it would be easier to arrange transportation back to Oxford from there. 

[annlaw78]

But why is she in Scotland in the first place, if she lives and was widowed in Oxfordshire? I may have missed her explanation. In the days before trains and decent roads, jaunting between the English Home Counties and the Highlands was not common.

ETA: Hey, Jamie's sister is Sarah Kay from "The Fall!"

Edited August 18, 2014 by annlaw78

[bluebonnet]

I also thought Mrs. Fitz's reaction was fairly normal, all things considered.  It wasn't all that different from the men's initial reaction.  It seems like outlander's are immediately suspicious, especially when they show up in a terrain that isn't the usual traveling ground.  Even more so if it's a single woman.  Then she arrives dressed in what is basically underwear.  If someone showed up at my house dressed as Claire was attired after Mrs. Fitz got ahold of her, I'd definitely be giving the "wtf is this" eyes.  

[SonofaBiscuit]

I like the fact that Jamie trusts Claire so implicitly at this point that it doesn't even occur to him to lie to her about who he really is and the past crimes he has committed.  He hardly knows her but he feels a connection with her.

 

Didn't Jamie realize that by taking Laoghaire's punishment for loose behavior, it may appear like he was the one she was committing said "loose behavior" with?  I did enjoy how he looked over in Claire's direction as he was being carried away after the beating, like he expected her to follow him and fix him up again.  I'm beginning to wonder if a little tiny part of him actually enjoys being injured just so he'll get to spend some alone time with Claire.  When Claire mentioned that he'd need to change his bandage in the next few days, his first thought was to ask, "Would it not be easier for you to do it?"  It will be interesting to see if he finds excuses to continue to see Claire in the future. 

 

Jamie actually seemed a little annoyed at the end there when Laoghaire interrupted his goodbye with Claire.  I can't believe that in the preview for next week's episode,

Jamie is shown kissing Laoghaire. Clearly he is trying to get a reaction out of Claire as he is shown looking her direction mid-kiss. Mrs. Fitz's granddaughter better be careful or she'll be accused of loose behavior again.

[clyJ]

"But how does it stack up against the only other time-travel story ever told?"

Have you been living under a rock? How about 12 Monkeys. The Time Machine (1960 and 2002 versions). The Butterfly Effect. Plus a few hundred others.

[BooBear]

Didn't Jamie realize that by taking Laoghaire's punishment for loose behavior, it may appear like he was the one she was committing said "loose behavior" with?  I did enjoy how he looked over in Claire's direction as he was being carried away after the beating, like he expected her to follow him and fix him up again.  I'm beginning to wonder if a little tiny part of him actually enjoys being injured just so he'll get to spend some alone time with Claire.  When Claire mentioned that he'd need to change his bandage in the next few days, his first thought was to ask, "Would it not be easier for you to do it?"  It will be interesting to see if he finds excuses to continue to see Claire in the future. 

 

I thought that Jamie clearly did all that, in part, to impress Claire / get some more medical tending.  He seemed completely crushed when she told him she was leaving.

[chysalis]

I’d like to add my two non-book reader cents:

I don’t think I could heart this episode anymore than I do. It really came together and told a story instead of a sequence of events. You can feel that the actors feel even more in their role as they did and this show really makes me want to read the books. I will wait for that tho‘ until the first season is over.

Here are a few things I enjoyed especially:

Geillis Duncan. She seems nice but something about her screams "Bitch is cray cray!!!“ Her mannerisms and her smile is … just… off. Even her kindness is off. What is up with that. Also I really like the actress. I liked her in the Borgias. But I have the feeling I will like her here even more.

Claire. Ha, I like her. She is practial, competent and smart. But still human and a fish out of water. At least she thinks quick on her feet (e.g. the bra scene. „It is french“). I really felt for her when it was decided that she couldn’t leave. Also it was very human how she started to talk herself into a corner. She isn’t trained in interrogation techniques. She heard her husband talking about it. But that isn’t the same thing. So making mistakes makes her more human to me, which is always appriciated.

Jamie: Ye ol‘ flirt. And cocky with a heart of gold. Me likey. I do have a question though: After he took the punishment for Laoghaire (yes, I had to look that up), Claire asked him if knew the girl. He said „mumble mumble heavy accent mumble. But I never talked to her.“ But the way she look into the kitchen (?) to talk to him after gave me a different feeling. Is something going on there? Did I miss something?

Also I really look forward to what is going on with the Mckenzie brothers and Jamie. They seem like they want him gone without having the possibility. At first I thought that Dougal was just hard on Jamie because he didn’t have a choice. But that beating was brutal and unnecessary. A punch in the shoulder? REALLY? I do not know who you are sir. But you are dead to me. Colum didn’t seem to mind either. He seems nicer than his brother but maybe that is nothing but a front. Interesting. Both of them.

I cannot wait for episode three. I just want more. And I want the opening song for my mp3 player. It was gold.

[Pestilentia]

I have a dumb question. Claire has given her maiden name, Beauchamp, to avoid the complications that would inevitably ensue should she use her true name, Randall. So one would assume that Beauchamp is her married - her husband's - name, since she is identifying as a widow. But in her conversation with Colum, it sounded to me like he was assuming her own family was the family with whom she planned to reunite in France. And he was suspicious that she hadn't met them or ever been there, etc. Did I miss something - do they all assume or did she say that she herself is of French ancestry?

That was the point of the scene- Claire screwed up.

Her story is full of holes and this is why the brothers MacKenzie mistrust her. They don't know what she is lying about but it is painfully clear that she is lying.

[WatchrTina]

 

why are so few of them in kilts?

I did wonder at first why Dougal was wearing breeks in the first episode and I decided that it was a mark of his status -- that pants are more expensive than kilts and so he wears breeks and flings his plaid over his shoulder like a toga instead.  But I honestly didn't notice if others (people in the courtyard and hall maybe?) were also wearing pants.  I canna take my eyes off Jamie if he's on screen. 

Edited August 18, 2014 by WatchrTina

[GHScorpiosRule]

I really enjoyed this so much more, more than the pilot. And I'm glad that I don't remember much from the book, so I can watch it and enjoy it as a show, NOT based on a series, even though it is based on a series.  Does that make sense?

 

OMG, y'all! Dougal looks just like the Highlander I got my picture with 10 years ago, but it's not him, cuz that Highlander was in his 60s then, and I doubt the actor playing Dougal is in his 80s!

 

Ahem.

 

After that near kiss, I was all like, Frank who? Because as someone upthread, stated, I'm loving this slow burn, and nothing, nothing we'd seen before had my heart racing or the butterflies in my tummy a flutterin' like that near kiss.

 

Okay, here's my nitpick, and let me preface it by stating, yes, yes, dramatic purposes, move the plot, make it more intriguing, blah, blah, blah...

 

But I was left confused and irritated that Jamie is separated, if you will, from the rest of the clan, as if he's something to be ashamed of, or a dirty little secret.  And that beating was pure punishment against Jaime personally. As if Jaime offering up to take the beating for Laoghaire was just the excuse needed. It was a total contradiction in how he was treated in the pilot or even when he was injured in the pilot. It made no sense. As does Dougal telling Claire he thinks she's a spy.  Because she didn't come upon them, asking for help. It was Murtaugh who saved her from Jack Randall...and he could have done nothing, and she wouldn't have known to approach them, which led to her patching up Jaime...telling them about the ambush, etc. If he were suspicious of her from the get go, maaaaybe I could believe him telling her he believes her to be a spy, after she messed up with the questioning at dinner.

 

And I have to admit, I laughed when I saw Laoghaire because

before I was convinced to read this series, all my friends called her 'hosebeast'

(Taking the rest to book thread.

 

And I suppose I'm very confused about the whole dressing thing, because I thought, that only the English and French wore so many layers of clothing, but not the Scottish. Especially corsets. Of course, all my knowledge hereto is based on the all the historical romances I've read (granted most were in the 1100s) and the movies Braveheart and Rob Roy. Again, the former was in the 13th century, and I can't recall what century the latter was. I just remember that Jessica Lange's character didn't wear a corset, or all those layers.

[Enigma X]

 

I really enjoyed this so much more, more than the pilot. And I'm glad that I don't remember much from the book, so I can watch it and enjoy it as a show, NOT based on a series, even though it is based on a series.  Does that make sense?

 

 

This makes so much sense, and I feel the same way. 

[Athena]

Jamie: Ye ol‘ flirt. And cocky with a heart of gold. Me likey. I do have a question though: After he took the punishment for Laoghaire (yes, I had to look that up), Claire asked him if knew the girl. He said „mumble mumble heavy accent mumble. But I never talked to her.“ But the way she look into the kitchen (?) to talk to him after gave me a different feeling. Is something going on there? Did I miss something?

 

Jamie says, "I ken who she is, but I've never spoken to her," Ken is Scottish for know. Another character used it as well. Jamie did seem mildly irritated when Laoghaire interrupted him and Claire. Jamie does seem to have a white knight complex and is a flirt to boot. Of course he'd want Claire to tend to him afterwards.

[WatchrTina]

 

Jamie does seem to have a white knight complex

He does but he also seemed to discuss the decision to speak up with Murtaugh in advance, which makes it seem a lot less spontaneous and makes me think that there was a lot more subtext to that scene than is obvious at first.  Was he just being a hero or was he also trying, just a wee bit, to get all up in his uncle's grill AND score some brownie points for himself with the occupants of the castle (he certainly won Mrs. Fitz' heart with the gesture.) Jamie is the nephew of the Laird and yet he's being housed "outside the castle walls".  Something is off.  The people on the board who have said they are confused are right to be confused.  There is more going on than we understand yet.  We, like Claire, are meant to be puzzled by Jamie's place in the clan at this point.  I can't wait for them to peel back the onion another layer.

Edited August 19, 2014 by WatchrTina

[DoughGirl]

And I want the opening song for my mp3 player. It was gold.

The opening song is an adaptation of "Skye Boat Song". There must be multiple versions of it available on ITunes, etc. if the adaptation for the show isn't available.

[Sakura12]

I'm loving this show, it's not often that I watch an episode more than twice. For this I watched ep 1 and 2 more than twice.

 

I liked the flashforwardbacks, it helped show us Claire's inner thoughts instead of just her talking about it. I also liked that she screwed up the interrogation. Shows me she's not perfect and is lost in a new world. She's done a better a job than I would've have, if that happened to me. But I was yelling at her through the tv to stop drinking so much. Of course I would've done the same, when I'm nervous I would've kept drinking or stuffing food in my mouth. 

 

I'm wondering how often Jamie is going to allow himself to get hurt so he can have an excuse to visit his Sassenach. I am confused at Jamie's place in the clan. Does nobody trust him? He and Claire seem to be on the same boat with that. 

 

I think Caitriona Balfe and Sam Heughan are doing great in their roles. They really take me into this world which is what actors are supposed to do.

Edited August 18, 2014 by Sakura12

[DoughGirl]

Just checked ITunes and they do have the show adaptation of Skye Boat Song.

[cam3150]

I am really, really trying to like this show, and I do. I like the concept, I like the actors, I am All In with Claire and Jaime.  I am just having one little issue – I am having a major problem in understanding what the characters are saying, and I don’t mean the Gaelic. 

 

With Claire, I can understand her ok but I am having quite a hard time with most of the other characters.  With Jaime, as long as he’s speaking clearly and enunciating, I can understand him just fine but he doesn’t do that most of the time.  He either talks to softly or, the bigger problem, too quickly. I am spending a lot of time re-winding to try and catch what he’s saying.  Like, a lot of time, to the point where watching this show is becoming a bit of a chore and it’s only the 2nd episode.  Even doing that, and turning my TV volume way up, I still often only get about 80% of what he says.

 

Don’t get me wrong.  I am only familiar with Outlander from the TV series but I already love Jaime. I don’t know anything about his book character but his TV character has won me over. Just the fact that he’s willing to take beatings in place of those girls says a lot about him. Plus, he is seriously good looking so that never hurts.  I really want to know more about him so I really want to understand what he says.

 

Just when I didn’t think it could get worse, they introduce Mrs. Fitz and, good glory, I cannot understand her to save my life.  You’d think with as loud as she is, I could get most of it but, no way.  I realize that the accents are most likely true to the time and all that but I can only hope at some point the actors are instructed to at least enunciate a little bit more or speak just a little louder or a little more slowly.  There is a lot of mumbling going on during the dialogue, across the board.  

 

I can’t be the only one having a problem in understanding what is being said – am I?  Please tell me I am not alone.

[annlaw78]

 

I liked the flashforwardbacks, it helped show us Claire's inner thought instead of just her talking about it. I also liked that she screwed up the interrogation. Shows me she's not perfect ans is lost in a new world. She's done a better a job than I would've have, if that happened to me. But I was yelling at her through the tv to stop drinking so much. Of course I would've done the same, when I'm nervous I would've kept drinking or stuffing food in my mouth.

She's doing a much better job than I would be, but... she did have about 72 hours on a horse with nothing to do but think about a better explanation for how she ended up in northern Scotland, and the best she could come up with was that she's somehow journeying to France by way of the Scottish Highlands.  She's going to have to explain how she ended up way up there.  And it's a head-scratcher, because I don't really know what a good excuse would be, other than perhaps saying her husband was a teacher at St. Andrews or the U of Edinburgh or similar.  Unfortunately, those things are probably relatively easily verifiable, even back then.

 

 

I can’t be the only one having a problem in understanding what is being said – am I?  Please tell me I am not alone.

I think a lot of the Scots characters are speaking "Scotlish," in which they speak mostly English, but drop in some Gaelic phrases or terms, like "nae" for "no," "ken" for "know," "bonny" for "pretty," etc.  So, "cannot" becomes "cannae." 

Edited August 18, 2014 by annlaw78

[MaryMitch]

I can’t be the only one having a problem in understanding what is being said – am I?  Please tell me I am not alone.

 

I also have problems with the accents; I turn on my closed captioning when I have a problem.

[nyxy]

So happy to find a forum on this show. Love getting all the background and smart interpreters from the well-informed people who post here!

 

I like it so far. I don't love the gory and violent scenes. I watch on my computer and immediately switch tabs (often to come here and read) while a violent scene is on in the background. But the sound effects are bad enough.

 

I like Jaime or Jamie but his masochism is getting me down. The "taking of the girls' punishment" scene was too much. I heard it (didn't watch it) and it sounded like he was being felled at the knee. Wish the sound effects weren't so realistic. gah

 

That girl he took the punishment for seems more his type than Clair is...just a feeling.

 

Of course Jamie's injury-prone nature keeps Clair in demand as a nurse and keeps their connection going. But still, it's too much for my poor nerves.

 

Oh and on another note, I love Mistress Fitz. Liked her from the start. She's a beacon of ordinary normal domesticity in this chaotic world....it's the others, esp the Laird and his minions, who seemed sinister to me.

Edited August 18, 2014 by nyxy

[annlaw78]

 

I like Jaime or Jamie but his masochism is getting me down. The "taking of the girls' punishment" scene was too much. I heard it (didn't watch it) and it sounded like he was being felled at the knee. Wish the sound effects weren't so realistic. gah

I took from the scene that Jamie thought they would "go easy" on him -- he was injured, after all, and he was doing the gentlemanly thing and playing whipping boy for the girl.  I think he was surprised that Dougal/Colum had other plans in mind.  If he'd known his beleaguered shoulder would be knocked back out, or that he'd be getting kidney jabs (I seriously thought Claire would pipe up and object to that, by the way), he may not have been so blithe about volunteering. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

I'm just going to post this here...but I think @Athena that maybe we should have a thread for the music on this show?

 

Anyhoo, it just hit me what the opening credits song reminds me of...for those that watched The Highlander, starring the verra yummy Adrian Paul, as Duncan McLeod of the Clan McLeod, ye'll ken wot I'm talkin' aboot.

 

Ahem. It reminds me of the song used for when Duncan went to Scotland to bury the bracelet of his first love, who had died. And we got a flashback as to what happened with her and a very young Duncan before he became an immortal.

[Nidratime]

He does but he also seemed to discuss the decision to speak up with Murtaugh in advance, which makes it seem a lot less spontaneous and makes me think that there was a lot more subtext to that scene than is obvious at first.  Was he just being hero or was he also trying, just a wee bit, to get all up in his uncle's grill AND score some brownie points for himself with the occupants of the castle (he certainly won Mrs. Fitz' heart with the gesture.) Jamie is the nephew of the Laird and yet he's being housed "outside the castle walls".  Something is off.

 

 

It appeared to me that Murtaugh had to be convinced, i.e., Jamie wanted to do it but Murtaugh didn't like the idea. The latter might have had some idea that they weren't going to go light on Jamie. And yes, I agree that there's a lot going on beneath the surface that's making people suspicious of each other.

 

As for Jamie living outside the castle, I thought that had something to do with him being a wanted man and there being possible spies or traitors willing to give him up for $$$. However, I'm not sure how keeping him outside the castle solves that, unless it makes him seem less important than if he lived with the family.

[Pestilentia]

I can’t be the only one having a problem in understanding what is being said – am I?  Please tell me I am not alone.

Fortunately there is a very simple solution- closed captioning.

I use it during my first viewing and then enjoy subsequent viewings without it.

I do find it to be distracting (which is why I only use it the first time) but it's not nearly as distracting as multiple rewinds.

Try it!

 

And yes, I am also wondering what crawled up the butts of Dougal and Colum regarding Jamie. They are his uncles and yet want him kept outside the castle.

Makes me go hmm.

Edited August 18, 2014 by Pestilentia

[SonofaBiscuit]

 I can’t be the only one having a problem in understanding what is being said – am I?  Please tell me I am not alone.

 

 

No, you are not alone.  I watch a lot of British television shows, but there are times where I have no idea what the people here are saying.  I found Mrs. Fitz particularly difficult to understand.  Also, the inclusion of Gaelic (?) words while the characters are speaking English is a little confusing.  Aye and bonnie were pretty self-explanatory, but I was confused by "ken."  Mrs. Fitz said something like, "She's my granddaughter.  You ken?"  I thought she was saying something about being her kin/family.  Makes more sense now that I know that "ken" means "know." 

 

It was also a little difficult to understand Jamie at times, but I think some of that was because he was speaking too quietly and mumbling.  Articulate, people!  After his little lunch with Claire, a guy came up to him and basically told him to get back to work, but all I could understand from Jamie's reply was something about starving.  I guess I'll have to try closed captioning and see if that helps.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I suppose I don't have any problem understanding what's being said because of my sojourn to Scotland and also having had watched Braveheart multiple times, as well as Disney's Gargoyles, whose pilot and up to the fifth episode were from 994 Scotland, and more episodes that had characters in flashbacks to 10th century Scotland. But yeah, closed captioning helps as well.

 

Oh and of course in her early years, whenever Johanna Lindsay had Scottish characters, she wrote out the words the way they sounded. Kinda like how I described to y'all my 'speriences with the Scots when i was in Scotland. So I think, that helps me a wee bit.

Edited August 18, 2014 by GHScorpiosRule

[AllAboutMBTV]

 

How pretty was that velvet dress Claire wore with the fur cape-neck thingy?

Where are her clothes coming from, though? Mrs. Fitz dressed Claire in her first period outfit, which she wore to dinner in the great hall (and clearly never sat down in it before arriving in the hall, as there was not one wrinkle in the tartan skirt). A bit later on (Jamie's taking-the-punishment scene, I believe), Claire has acquired drop earrings and a choker of some sort. Then in the final scene, when she's locked in the dispensary (except she's not locked in; the latch is on her side of the door), she's wearing the velvet dress fur cape-neck thingy. For a complete stranger among a mistrustful clan, she sure rates (clothes, a seat at the head table, her own well-appointed bedroom, a job, albeit a forced one).

 

And when Claire was first transported, her dress had a crocodile belt. No doubt that came off in one of her tumbles into a gully, but she also had a wristwatch on, as well as a wedding ring. Where'd they go?

 

Really, I'm just picking nits. I'm enjoying Outlander enormously. Love the men's kilts with that extra, um, flounce?, in the back. The scenery is almost as pretty as Jamie and Claire (who has the longest neck).

[Nidratime]

Where are her clothes coming from, though? Mrs. Fitz dressed Claire in her first period outfit, which she wore to dinner in the great hall (and clearly never sat down in it before arriving in the hall, as there was not one wrinkle in the tartan skirt). A bit later on (Jamie's taking-the-punishment scene, I believe), Claire has acquired drop earrings and a choker of some sort. Then in the final scene, when she's locked in the dispensary (except she's not locked in; the latch is on her side of the door), she's wearing the velvet dress fur cape-neck thingy.

 

 

Maybe they were Davie Beaton's clothes. ;-)

[annlaw78]

 

And when Claire was first transported, her dress had a crocodile belt. No doubt that came off in one of her tumbles into a gully, but she also had a wristwatch on, as well as a wedding ring. Where'd they go?

I thought I saw her wedding ring in the scene at the paddock. 

 

 

Where are her clothes coming from, though? Mrs. Fitz dressed Claire in her first period outfit, which she wore to dinner in the great hall (and clearly never sat down in it before arriving in the hall, as there was not one wrinkle in the tartan skirt). A bit later on (Jamie's taking-the-punishment scene, I believe), Claire has acquired drop earrings and a choker of some sort. Then in the final scene, when she's locked in the dispensary (except she's not locked in; the latch is on her side of the door), she's wearing the velvet dress fur cape-neck thingy. For a complete stranger among a mistrustful clan, she sure rates (clothes, a seat at the head table, her own well-appointed bedroom, a job, albeit a forced one).

I agree -- the clothes porn is a bit much.  Claire is quite a bit taller than every other woman we've seen (granted, we've really only seen a couple standing), so the idea there are a lot of dresses cut to her height, in opulent fabrics like velvet and fur, is a bit hokey.  Unless Mrs. Fitz was in on the bait-and-switch Colum had planned, she was prepared to let a rather nice fur muff or gaiter, whatever you call it, go off with Claire (and an expensive dress).  Perhaps this can be fanwanked by "Highlands hospitality."

 

As an aside, wow, that style of dress is just terribly unflattering, but kudos to the show to keeping it authentic.  I recall Joe Wright in his recent "Pride and Prejudice" adaptation decided to set the movie when the book would have been written (as opposed to when it was published), so he could use late 18th-c. waistlines rather than the empire-waists typically scene in Jane Austen productions (which he loathed). 

 

I also appreciate that they are letting Claire's permed-and-banged 1940s hair go through an "awkward" stage in these first few eps.  It's looking frizzy and rather terrible with all the rain, and while I cannot relate to time-travel, I can relate to the laborious and awful process that is "growing out your bangs."  I'm with you, Claire.  I can't imagine having to do so without bobby pins!

Edited August 18, 2014 by annlaw78

[Tjehuti]

Hi, I wanted to comment on a few things that previous posters have said. First of all, I need to establish that I've read the book so I do know what is happening and what is going to happen. But no worries, I won't put any spoilers in here!

Several people have been puzzled by Claire coming up with the rather dubious tale of travelling to France from Oxford via Inverness.

Actually that part of her story ws the most believable where the Scots are concerned. When she said in her voice over after learning which year she ended up in that it was before the American revolution, she also mentioned that England was at war with France.

In other words, just hopping over the channel by boat wouldn't have been all that easy. In fact, it was near impossible for a private citizen, especially a woman, to do. Scotland, however, was allied with France. It was therefore the easiest and safest way for English people to travel to France via Scotland.

Also, her being so precise (and cleary chuffed to bits remembering it) about which George was on the throne , was one of those unintentional mistakes she made to rouse Colum's suspicions. Of course people at the time would only have said 'King George'.

But from her voiceover we knew tha,t on discovering the year being 1743, she was frantically searching her memory about whatever information she could remember for this period. One of those questions was which king. The wy she said it was just like  child in history class desperately trying to think of the answer and just doing so the moment the teacher asks the question. I thought it was a delighfully true moment.

Regarding the voiceovers themselves, I can see why some viewers are a bit put off by them. But the entire story is told from Claire's point of view, just as in the books and it makes sense to me that the writers decided to stick to that ruse. Ron Moore himself explained in numerous interviews that they are a way for Claire to talk to someone (i.e., us, the audience) as she can't talk to anyone else.

They are less meant as explanations of the story, but more as a reflexion as to what's going on. However, having said that, I do expect that they will become less frequent (at least at times) as the series progresses.

Now, what is going on between Jamie and his 2 uncles? Well, all I can say is that the series so far keeps very close to the books.

And as a reader you were just as puzzled as the non-book-reading viewer (and Claire) at this point. Again, as it's told solely from her point of view we won't know anything that she doesn't know yet - so be patient and watch!!

Finally let me say that so far I am very impressed with the work here. Episode 1 was good (hats off to the writers for keeping their nerve and taking their time!) but episode 2 was even better. The makers & cast really seem to understand how to build atmosphere and create characters. As one of the commentators above rightly put it: not a lot was happening and yet a lot was happening - just like in the book. And, knowing what I know, you ain't seen nothing yet!!

 

[annlaw78]

 

Actually that part of her story ws the most believable where the Scots are concerned. When she said in her voice over after learning which year she ended up in that it was before the American revolution, she also mentioned that England was at war with France.

In other words, just hopping over the channel by boat wouldn't have been all that easy. In fact, it was near impossible for a private citizen, especially a woman, to do. Scotland, however, was allied with France. It was therefore the easiest and safest way for English people to travel to France via Scotland.

I'm not up on my Scotch history; I only know that the Scots King James VI became King James I of Great Britain, and hence the unification of the kingdoms (in the 1600s).  So I'm confused -- if Britain is at war with France, wouldn't Scotland be, too?  I don't know how "Scotland" could have allied with France at that time, since it didn't exist as a separate political entity.  Help!

 

Perhaps the bigger issue is that her "I'm going to live with distant relatives in France" story during this time period, when Britain and France are at war with each other, is just all-round stupid. 

Edited August 18, 2014 by annlaw78

[HistoryGirl]

No, you are not alone.  I watch a lot of British television shows, but there are times where I have no idea what the people here are saying.  I found Mrs. Fitz particularly difficult to understand.  Also, the inclusion of Gaelic (?) words while the characters are speaking English is a little confusing.  Aye and bonnie were pretty self-explanatory, but I was confused by "ken."  Mrs. Fitz said something like, "She's my granddaughter.  You ken?"  I thought she was saying something about being her kin/family.  Makes more sense now that I know that "ken" means "know." 

 

 

Also Claire snottily told Collum (? or was it Dougal? one of them) "You ken?" when she walked away.  That's when I sort of did the math as to what it meant. 

[annlaw78]

 

Also Claire snottily told Collum (? or was it Dougal? one of them) "You ken?" when she walked away.  That's when I sort of did the math as to what it meant.

Thanks to Rolfe from "The Sound of Music," I've heard "ken" used to connote "understanding" or "knowledge," but I've never heard it as a verb.  Or, really, anywhere else other than "16 Going on 17!"

Edited August 18, 2014 by annlaw78

[bluebonnet]

And when Claire was first transported, her dress had a crocodile belt. No doubt that came off in one of her tumbles into a gully, but she also had a wristwatch on, as well as a wedding ring. Where'd they go?

 

This really has been bugging me as well.  It's so weird when she lost the belt because she had only crouched down on the ground.  She was standing with belt on, crouched and came up with belt off.  There was no discernible reason she should have lost the belt at that moment.  The disappearing watch is also head-scratching.  I wish they hadn't even used those items if they were never going to be used when she crossed over or at the least have shown us where she lost them and why.  

[Athena]

I'm not up on my Scotch history; I only know that the Scots King James VI became King James I of Great Britain, and hence the unification of the kingdoms (in the 1600s).  So I'm confused -- if Britain is at war with France, wouldn't Scotland be, too?  I don't know how "Scotland" could have allied with France at that time, since it didn't exist as a separate political entity.  Help!

 

People were still travelling between Britain and France, but it was made more difficult by war. France and Scotland have a very old alliance aka The Auld Alliance. Even though England and Scotland were unified by King James, Scotland had centuries of traditional ties to France. Their monarchs intermarried, Scottish men were sent to help with French campaigns or for training, and for schooling. This didn't end completely after Scotland became part of Great Britain. The Highlands especially retained ties to France because Highlanders were still a largely Catholic group. 

 

I think this could explain some of the issue. Claire probably knew that that travelling from Inverness was safer because Highlanders were known as friendly to the French at the time more so than the English.

[onthebrink03]

This really has been bugging me as well.  It's so weird when she lost the belt because she had only crouched down on the ground.  She was standing with belt on, crouched and came up with belt off.  There was no discernible reason she should have lost the belt at that moment.  The disappearing watch is also head-scratching.  I wish they hadn't even used those items if they were never going to be used when she crossed over or at the least have shown us where she lost them and why.  

No, I think she lost the belt when she tumbled.  I looked at the scene again and once she finishes tumbling her body is in a position that you can't really see her waist.  And when she stands up, you only see her top half.  It's only when she crouches because of gunfire and then stands again that you see her full body in the shot.  The button on her dress was intact as well before the tumble, lost afterwards.  I think that tumble down the hill was meant to take away her 20th century trappings and make her attire more in line with an 18 century shift and that it did.  I also think it's just implied that her watch would have been lost in that same tumble.  She still has her wedding band.  You can see it in several scenes.

Edited August 18, 2014 by onthebrink03

[HistoryGirl]

This really has been bugging me as well.  It's so weird when she lost the belt because she had only crouched down on the ground.  She was standing with belt on, crouched and came up with belt off.  There was no discernible reason she should have lost the belt at that moment.  The disappearing watch is also head-scratching.  I wish they hadn't even used those items if they were never going to be used when she crossed over or at the least have shown us where she lost them and why.  

Someone was saying the episode 1 thread that in the podcast (I think it was the podcast) that's been referenced here and there, they made mention to a deleted scene.  Apparently Black Jack Randall came across her and tried to chase after her a bit and fell on top of her.  In that melee is when she lost the bits and baubles of her dress.  After that chase, he snatched her up and tried to rape her, which aired.  

[Glaze Crazy]

And I suppose I'm very confused about the whole dressing thing, because I thought, that only the English and French wore so many layers of clothing, but not the Scottish. Especially corsets. Of course, all my knowledge hereto is based on the all the historical romances I've read (granted most were in the 1100s) and the movies Braveheart and Rob Roy. Again, the former was in the 13th century, and I can't recall what century the latter was. I just remember that Jessica Lange's character didn't wear a corset, or all those layers.

 

Both Braveheart and Rob Roy are stories of the more common folk, villagers and crofters, not so much inside any castle walls, except for scenes in both stories that would involve royalty or landholders, such as Robert the Bruce, the Duke of Montrose, etc.  I think, since this is Castle Leoch, the clothing worn, especially by the ladies of the castle, would more closely align with clothing worn by English and French ladies.  Colum and Dougal would be educated at the same level as any other high born people of the time and follow similar social mores as far as dress and other customs of higher class English and French.  The girls in the kitchen and the folk in the scenes outside the castle walls seem to be dressed more simply because they are working class.

 

I listened to Ron Moore's podcast for this last night.  It included his wife, the costume designer.  She provided a lot of insight on the choices for costumes, if you are interested in more details.  You can find a link for the download on this page: http://outlandishobservations.blogspot.com/2014/08/ron-moores-podcast-of-episode-102.html

[annlaw78]

 

Someone was saying the episode 1 thread that in the podcast (I think it was the podcast) that's been referenced here and there, they made mention to a deleted scene.  Apparently Black Jack Randall came across her and tried to chase after her a bit and fell on top of her.  In that melee is when she lost the bits and baubles of her dress.  After that chase, he snatched her up and tried to rape her, which aired.

I wish they had kept more of that, and less of the Enya-dancing-around-the-stones scene, which I thought went on too long.  Clearly Black Jack Randall is the Big Bad of the series, but even assuming he is a sadistic monster, he sure went from "at your service, madam" to "rape" pretty quickly.  Given that she was a well-spoken English woman in some distress, it was a rather stupid move on his part, morality-aside. 

Edited August 18, 2014 by annlaw78