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S17.E04: The Big Cut -- Choreography Round


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One day of choreo with one choreographer and only 12 contestants in the live shows?  Budget has taken a pretty big hit which was obvious by the one city, 42 cast auditions but this is dire.  Come to think of it, $$ might have something to do with Nigel stepping down too. I wonder if the judges get paid the same as each other.

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Once again, there were no standouts for me in this episode (though at least we got to see some actual dancing). Normally by now I'd have strong favorites, but so far I'm underwhelmed. Plenty of okay dancers; very few great dancers. Will this be the first season without a ballroom dancer from Utah who is actually crosstrained and adored by every choreographer?

Only things that jumped out at me is that Essence needs to learn to keep her tongue in her mouth when she dances. Also, when the judges were cheering contestants for 'making dances their own' all I could think was yes, because in the real world choreographers just love it when you change their choreography...

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56 minutes ago, rlc said:

Once again, there were no standouts for me in this episode (though at least we got to see some actual dancing). Normally by now I'd have strong favorites, but so far I'm underwhelmed. Plenty of okay dancers; very few great dancers. Will this be the first season without a ballroom dancer from Utah who is actually crosstrained and adored by every choreographer?

Only things that jumped out at me is that Essence needs to learn to keep her tongue in her mouth when she dances. Also, when the judges were cheering contestants for 'making dances their own' all I could think was yes, because in the real world choreographers just love it when you change their choreography...

They have run through the auditions so fast that we barely know who anyone is let alone become attached to them.

I was surprised that the bigger guy, the one who auditioned in heals made to to the round of 24.  He seems to get the choreography, but he doesn’t have the extensions or technique to make top 12.   

And in the first round, was anyone else yelling…just cut them!   They had one day to make the cuts.  Don’t string someone along if you know they don’t have it.  

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Do the camera monkeys even understand that this show is about watching and judging dancers? I want to watch ALL 4 dancers to see who is faking the choreography and timing. Instead I'm getting glimpses of individual dancers or couples and those glimpses are too short to judge or enjoy the dancing. I might as well be watching a kaleidoscope (Ohhh, pretty colors!).

Dearest 'Cinematographers', if you want to know what good camera work looks like, watch a boxing match. The camera is centered on the boxers and it only shifts to give us a better view of both boxers (from the side, opposite the referee). There are no audience or judge reaction shots while they are boxing, because that would be stupid and the fans would riot. What you are doing isn't art, it's self-gratification.

Who should go home besides the camera monkeys? I have no idea, see rant above.

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12 hours ago, nx74defiant said:

So every dance was to the same song? I was getting tired of hearing the same thing, over and over.

Not only that, it looked like the contemporary dancers were doing only contemporary choreography, hip hop dancers doing hip hop choreography, and so on. What happened to challenging the dancers with genres beyond their own? 

Edited: Oops — never mind. That was just the first round. 

Edited by Pj3422
Corrected my initial impression.
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This show is moving much faster than it used to. We sped through the auditions, now 42 becomes 12 in the blink of an eye and way too much time spent on Briana when she was about to be gone anyway. And why was she the only one to get a "dance for your life" second chance? I don't know how much has been predetermined and how much the choreography round really matters, but I don't see how the judges can watch a stage full of dancers and really "see" any of them properly. How many seconds do they actually watch each dancer? It can't be many. I used to enjoy these preliminary rounds, but they're just going too fast.

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11 hours ago, rlc said:

Once again, there were no standouts for me in this episode (though at least we got to see some actual dancing). Normally by now I'd have strong favorites, but so far I'm underwhelmed. Plenty of okay dancers; very few great dancers. Will this be the first season without a ballroom dancer from Utah who is actually crosstrained and adored by every choreographer?

Only things that jumped out at me is that Essence needs to learn to keep her tongue in her mouth when she dances. Also, when the judges were cheering contestants for 'making dances their own' all I could think was yes, because in the real world choreographers just love it when you change their choreography...

Tristan Sosa is from Utah.  His brother and sister were on the last season of SYTYCD.  Based on the little I've seen from this episode, his contemporary/jazz is not as good as Ezra but he auditioned as a ballroom dancer.  Surprised that Sage auditioned as a ballroom dancer.  Maybe, he thought there would be less competition.  I don't know his name or if ballroom is his genre but the guy who had a little ballroom solo in the group dance stood out. ETA - The guy's name is Carter and from Sandy, UT.  Alexis Ware is from Orem, UT.  She auditioned with Ezra and is shown in this episode during the couples round with red jacket guy.  If they want a ballroom girl, she was shown more than Camille from Miami in this episode.

Aww, I like Essence.  I think she has the IT factor and stood out among the girl hip hop dancers.  Sadly, I agreed with the judges that Brianna was the weak one in that round.

10 hours ago, DEL901 said:

They have run through the auditions so fast that we barely know who anyone is let alone become attached to them.

I was surprised that the bigger guy, the one who auditioned in heals made to to the round of 24.  He seems to get the choreography, but he doesn’t have the extensions or technique to make top 12.   

And in the first round, was anyone else yelling…just cut them!   They had one day to make the cuts.  Don’t string someone along if you know they don’t have it.  

Beau, the one who auditioned in heels, was funny but he should have been cut when you compare him against the other contemporary guys.  If they wanted to keep a big guy, then the football guy was better.  The teaser was between Waverly and Konner.  Honestly, I would cut both of them but only based on the limited footage of this episode.  In the first round, Waverly was the weak one in that group.  Matthew and red jacket guy were the standouts to me but Samuel was also better.  He did do better in the other rounds though especially since he had to really plie to be more in line with the other contestants' heights.  I didn't get to see Konner but MM said he started out in the top and slowly went down so I'm guessing he disappeared amongst the other dancers.  I'm guessing Waverly made it over him and if it was based on auditions, I think his audition is more unique.

Lord Finn has definitely taken some classes.  As I mentioned in his audition episode, his first audition was all about bone breaking, this year he wasn't all about freaking people out but had humor, Chicago footwork, etc.  I think he will make the show because they need variety and at least one hip hop guy.

Cat is so sweet.  She's like the mom for these dancers.

Edited by realdancemom
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There is one male dancer (forget his name) that really stands out to me. Maybe it is his guy liner and eye make up but my gosh, he can dance rings around his competition. He wore the red jacket in the initial audition.

Edited by luvthepros
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5 hours ago, Lily H said:

This show is moving much faster than it used to. We sped through the auditions, now 42 becomes 12 in the blink of an eye and way too much time spent on Briana when she was about to be gone anyway. And why was she the only one to get a "dance for your life" second chance? I don't know how much has been predetermined and how much the choreography round really matters, but I don't see how the judges can watch a stage full of dancers and really "see" any of them properly. How many seconds do they actually watch each dancer? It can't be many. I used to enjoy these preliminary rounds, but they're just going too fast.

I agree. I used to think they dragged the audition and elimination rounds out for way too long but this must be the low budget season of SYTYCD. We'll find out  the  top 12 by episode 5. Apparently they could only afford to pay one choreographer and for the rights to one Whitney Houston song. This is probably why Nigel wasn't asked back,  he was way too expensive for them.

I barely know who any of the dancers are as dancers so I don't even know who I'm rooting for.

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16 hours ago, luvthepros said:

There is one male dancer (forget his name) that really stands out to me. Maybe it is his guy liner and eye make up but my gosh, he can dance rings around his competition. He wore the red jacket in the initial audition.

Yes, in my post above, I kept mentioning red jacket guy because his name is unique.  I've since looked it up and it's spelled Thiago.  His technique is superb and I loved his audition.  The other contemporary guy that I like is Matthew.  He was in the first contemporary guy round with a black/white plaid shirt.  He has a nice performance quality that makes me want to watch him.  Plus in the couples round, he actually did the ending tilt jump which Thiago didn't pull off.  I think Thiago will make it but not so sure about Matthew since I don't think they showed his audition and they hardly mentioned him.

For other genres:

Contemporary girls - I liked Ann(a?) Miller's audition (pinstripe suit) but they didn't really show her in this episode except that Twitch said that she disappeared in the group number so I don't think she makes it.  Even though Juicy had the same comment, they did show her more in this episode so I think she will make it through.  I think she is a good performer.

Ballroom girls - It's between Alexis from Utah and Camila from Miami.  I think Alexis will make it out of the two if they were to choose a ballroom girl.

Ballroom guys - It's between Carter and Tristan who are both from Utah.  I think Carter makes it between the two if a ballroom guy makes it through.

Hip hop guy - Well, the show really only featured Lord Finn so I assume that he will be the one chosen.  They really didn't show too much of the other two guys except brief glimpses.  I didn't really see anything wrong with what they did so my opinion is only based on TV coverage.

Hip hop girl - Essence for sure.  The other hip hop girls that were mentioned in this episode were already cut.  But even if they weren't, Essence would have made it.  Her faces can be annoying but like I mentioned in my above post, she has the IT factor.  

If I had to guess who JoJo pointed to, it would be Essence.  I think she or Thiago are early favorites to win although anything can go because partnerships and chemistry mean a lot in this show.  

Edited by realdancemom
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That must have either been a hard decision, or the producers already had a good idea who’d make for good tv. I didn’t see anyone in the 24 who wouldn't be entertaining on the show. I think they all could mostly handle the choreography.  But yeah, Essence and Thiago are shoe ins. 

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On 6/9/2022 at 1:01 AM, crowceilidh said:

One day of choreo with one choreographer and only 12 contestants in the live shows?  Budget has taken a pretty big hit which was obvious by the one city, 42 cast auditions but this is dire.  Come to think of it, $$ might have something to do with Nigel stepping down too. I wonder if the judges get paid the same as each other.

I wonder if the pandemic is also still a consideration. That may be why they didn't travel for auditions. But it does also seem like a tight budget. The episodes are too short and they are barely showing a lot of the dancers. The auditions seem to be flashing by without the opportunity to really identify anyone except for the very small handful chosen to be highlighted. I don't remember it being like this before but this season feels very rushed.

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25 minutes ago, springbarb said:

It does all feel rushed, but I am pleased at the body diversity in the final 24. There are people in there who I don't think Nigel would let even sniff that far into the competition.

And those people should not be in the final 24, IMHO. I value Nigel's expertise. For example.........the guy who auditioned in heels would certainly not have gone this far if Nigel was on the judge's panel and Nigel would be right in cutting him! Heels guy is overtly feminine and his body type is not typical of a dancer. He is not lithe like a dancer. He should not be there.

Edited by luvthepros
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3 hours ago, luvthepros said:

And those people should not be in the final 24, IMHO. I value Nigel's expertise. For example.........the guy who auditioned in heels would certainly not have gone this far if Nigel was on the judge's panel and Nigel would be right in cutting him! Heels guy is overtly feminine and his body type is not typical of a dancer. He is not lithe like a dancer. He should not be there.

While I agree he is not one of the best dancers, and more talented dancers have been cut before him, what difference does it make that he’s overtly feminine?  That has nothing to do with anybody’s dancing ability.  There have been plenty of gay men and women on this show who have been able to dance and perform what the choreographers gave them and take on the role required of that dance.  While I don’t think this particular man will be able to dance whatever’s given to him, his sexuality, femininity or masculinity do not impact his skill as a dancer.

Edited by Tigregirl
Thpo
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1 hour ago, Tigregirl said:

While I agree he is not one of the best dancers, and more talented dancers have been cut before him, what difference does it make that he’s overtly feminine?  That has nothing to do with anybody’s dancing ability.  There have been plenty of gay men and women on this show who have been able to dance and perform what the choreographers gave them and take on the role required of that dance.  While I don’t think this particular man will be able to dance whatever’s given to him, his sexuality, femininity or masculinity do not impact his skill as a dancer.

Nigel always said he wants his men to dance masculine. I agree with him. Partner dancing is a lot of role playing. Heels guy will not convince me he is hot for his woman in a hot steamy partner dance.

Edited by luvthepros
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26 minutes ago, Haleth said:

He was picked because he’s good tv. The producers want to showcase the most interesting characters rather than the most talented. 

TPTB should know by now their primary audience are people who want to see great dancing. Most of the criticisms on this forum is that the camera work sucks. We don't want to see the judges faces. We want to see the dancing. We don't want to see close ups of the dancers faces. We want to see full shots of entire bodies dancing.

Edited by luvthepros
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2 hours ago, luvthepros said:

Nigel always said he wants his men to dance masculine. I agree with him. Partner dancing is a lot of role playing. Heels guy will not convince me he is hot for his woman in a hot steamy partner dance.

The other gay men in past seasons have done it.  We don’t know for sure until we’ve seen him in that role.  Again, I don’t think he has the dance talent to make the top 12 but I’m not going to judge his ability to dance a masculine role based on the little bit we’ve seen.  Who was the contestant a few years ago who auditioned in drag, made it to Hollywood, did the first couple dances during Hollywood week in drag, then danced a ballroom round in a typical man’s costume and shocked the judges with how good he was?  People can surprise you.  

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14 hours ago, Tigregirl said:

While I agree he is not one of the best dancers, and more talented dancers have been cut before him, what difference does it make that he’s overtly feminine?  That has nothing to do with anybody’s dancing ability.  There have been plenty of gay men and women on this show who have been able to dance and perform what the choreographers gave them and take on the role required of that dance.  While I don’t think this particular man will be able to dance whatever’s given to him, his sexuality, femininity or masculinity do not impact his skill as a dancer.

100% agree. The dance world is changing, and traditional gender rolls matter less and less. This guy should have been cut because he's not a great dancer- regardless of size or masculinity. Things are definitely (slowly) changing with body types, but larger dances will not be hired over more dance-traditional bodied dancers 9 out of 10 times. I'm definitely seeing more muscular dancers in the commercial dance world, but if you put two dancers on a stage for an audition- one thick and one that is built like a lightbulb, odds are the lightbulb will be hired.

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35 minutes ago, rlc said:

100% agree. The dance world is changing, and traditional gender rolls matter less and less. This guy should have been cut because he's not a great dancer- regardless of size or masculinity. Things are definitely (slowly) changing with body types, but larger dances will not be hired over more dance-traditional bodied dancers 9 out of 10 times. I'm definitely seeing more muscular dancers in the commercial dance world, but if you put two dancers on a stage for an audition- one thick and one that is built like a lightbulb, odds are the lightbulb will be hired.

Agree.  In the most recent season of DWTS, JoJo competed with a female partner and they came close to winning.  Same sex partners have been done in international versions of the show.   Times are changing and horizons are broadening.   I agree, that guy was cut because he didn’t have the flexibility and made it this far because he had the musicality and showmanship.    One of the women is a bit larger than the others, but she has the skills, so I hope she goes far (note, this is the dance world….she would not be considered larger in the real world).

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21 hours ago, Tigregirl said:

The other gay men in past seasons have done it.  We don’t know for sure until we’ve seen him in that role.  Again, I don’t think he has the dance talent to make the top 12 but I’m not going to judge his ability to dance a masculine role based on the little bit we’ve seen.  Who was the contestant a few years ago who auditioned in drag, made it to Hollywood, did the first couple dances during Hollywood week in drag, then danced a ballroom round in a typical man’s costume and shocked the judges with how good he was?  People can surprise you.  

I remember that contestant and you are correct. Acting is a big part of role playing so there is that.

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On 6/11/2022 at 9:47 PM, Tigregirl said:

ho was the contestant a few years ago who auditioned in drag, made it to Hollywood, did the first couple dances during Hollywood week in drag, then danced a ballroom round in a typical man’s costume and shocked the judges with how good he was?  People can surprise you.  

You might be thinking of Jay Jackson, who performed drag under the name Laganja Estranja, and has now transitioned. 

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The only dancer who's name I know is Essence and that is because I already *adore* her.  She is just fun to watch. I think the dancers who danced for her life that they ultimately dumped was Brianna? Essence and Brianna gave me my favorite moment of the entire episode! They were doing the first round of choreo and Essence turned and engaged with her and her entire face was screaming, "this is so much fun! Aren't you having fun?"  and Brianna picked up on it and in there moment seemed to find the fun in the moment. All throughout the performances tonight everytime I saw her that seems to be how she was engaging with all of the other dancers.

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Well, as they are prone to repeating, they want "America's favorite dancer" and not "best dancer" or "most hireable"...and AI and other talent shows have proven that we'll keep watching in large numbers even if the soft focus hardscrabble story is the focus and not the talent in question. Disappoints me to an extent, but I get it...eyeballs and sponsorship are driving this cart, not the promotion of dance. 

Soapbox aside, I enjoyed the ep largely. I've long been a Mandy fan, so getting to see her do three routines and interact with the dancers was entertaining for me. I don't think I saw enough of each one, but I think there's some justifiable talent still in the pool to watch. 

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On 6/9/2022 at 8:31 AM, appositival said:

Do the camera monkeys even understand that this show is about watching and judging dancers? I want to watch ALL 4 dancers to see who is faking the choreography and timing. Instead I'm getting glimpses of individual dancers or couples and those glimpses are too short to judge or enjoy the dancing. I might as well be watching a kaleidoscope (Ohhh, pretty colors!).

No, they do not. They cut from angle to angle and then zooooom swoooop in, then cut, swoop, cut, circle, HEADSHOTS, NOSEBLEED SEATS, zipline in! They couldn't obscure the performance more if they were trying.

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On 6/24/2022 at 2:22 AM, CoyoteBlue said:

No, they do not. They cut from angle to angle and then zooooom swoooop in, then cut, swoop, cut, circle, HEADSHOTS, NOSEBLEED SEATS, zipline in! They couldn't obscure the performance more if they were trying.

They need captures these dancers the way Fred Astaire insisted all his dance numbers were filmed.

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