S42.E13: It Comes Down to This

[Chicago Redshirt]

I think there are tradeoffs with going to the aftershow format of the last couple seasons, but I think overall the pros outweigh the cons. (Although admittedly, I didn't watch all/much of the aftershow this time)

Pros

Immediate reactions from people fresh in the moment

No/less filler as to random audience members reactions

Fewer opportunities for Peachy to try to make it about him (or so it seems to me)

Less of the pomp and circumstance trying to make it seem like Survivor is such an important social phenomenon

Less filler and replaying of clips

Cons

No chance to hear from pre-Merge contestants. I might have been curious to see Daniel again and hear some of what he had to say this season, for example.

I do kind of miss seeing everyone's glow-ups, the joyful reaction of family members and that sort of thing

No chance for the contestants to react to a bunch of stuff that makes the broadcast that they didn't know about at the time.

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

How was that Romeo's position?  He admitted it straight up at Tribal Council.

Hai:  You gaslighted me about that vote.
Romeo:  Yes, I did, because you replaced me as Drea's #1 and I didn't understand why.
Hai:  Thank you for admitting that.

I watched it again, and I admit that Romeo didn't say specifically "it wasn't gaslighting, it was a lie", but it wasn't as cut and dried as this paraphrase makes it seem. When Hai first said that Romeo gaslighted him, Romeo didn't straight up admit it right off the bat; he said "no I didn't". Hai went into more detail on what part he thought was gaslighting and sure, Romeo ultimately said "yes" but I'm still not sure he understood the gaslighting part. He went on to talk about Drea replacing him with Hai as an ally and how that affected what he did, and that is what Hai thanks him for owning.

Regardless, I still don't think what Romeo did counts as gaslighting (and that Hai interview doesn't make the case either, imo). I think Hai just has an overly-developed sense of the dramatic and a bit of a persecution complex (see also his issue with Omar), and Romeo was agreeing with him to make him happy. But it comes down to semantics so I'm happy to yield the point.

Edited May 27, 2022 by tracyscott76

[Nashville]

2 hours ago, Angeltoes said:

I got tired of many on the jury with their over the top reactions to things.  Tori with her mouth hanging open and the exaggerated gasps of surprise from others.  They came across as a bunch of junior high kids looking for attention.   I wouldn't be surprised if production eggs this on but it needs to stop.  The jury is supposed to watch and listen like flies on the wall and not wrestle for the spotlight.

I call this “The Eliza Effect”.

[LadyChatts]

43 minutes ago, Nashville said:

I call this “The Eliza Effect”.

I don't think anyone will ever beat her dramatics.  

[Lantern7]

Erik takes a look at the finale.

2 hours ago, Nashville said:

I call this “The Eliza Effect”.

“Oh, this is it! It’s the big one, Corrine!!!”

[millennium]

I didn't much like any of the final three, but credit where due: Maryanne sold it better than anybody else.   My two complaints about her are 1) for a large part of the season she was very annoying, and 2) she had way too many sob stories.

There wasn't a single thing I liked about Romeo.  What an idiot to bring Maryanne to the final three with him.   Stupidest move since since Woo took Tony along.   But more than that, Romeo's a worm.  He comes out to Hai, Hai lifts him up, and the next minute Romeo votes him out.   Then keeps crying "Poor little me."  And enough with the endless pageant metaphors. 

Mike's vanity was nauseating.  He actually believed they all loved him and that they would not, could not ever consider giving the million dollars to somebody else.  He kept talking up his likeability like it was a law of physics.   I wish Omar had brought up how easily he played Mike by lying that Hai called him a puppet and how quickly Mike threw Hai under the bus.   There was something gratifying about how crushed he appeared when it became obvious that Maryanne had won.

[PaperTree]

23 minutes ago, millennium said:

  I wish Omar had brought up how easily he played Mike by lying that Hai called him a puppet and how quickly Mike threw Hai under the bus.   There was something gratifying about how crushed he appeared when it became obvious that Maryanne had won.

That was great!

[PhilMarlowe2]

23 minutes ago, millennium said:

  And enough with the endless pageant metaphors. 

Wait, Romeo works in pageants? LOL, the way he spoke about inspiring women to be their best, I literally assumed him to be a social worker who helped women trying to build better lives for themselves.

[PaperTree]

11 minutes ago, PhilMarlowe2 said:

Wait, Romeo works in pageants? LOL, the way he spoke about inspiring women to be their best, I literally assumed him to be a social worker who helped women trying to build better lives for themselves.

That didn't bother me.  For a small minority of women their pageant thing is their whole life.  That Romeo seeks to inspire them to do their best, I think is a good thing.  I think pageants are stupid and well out of date, but it's his career whether he fell into it or chose it and it's what he knows.

I'm sure people would quickly get bored if I talked about plastics a lot, but that was my career and that's what I know about. At the end I did paper treatment for grease resistance.  Compare untreated  newspaper/paper towels etc. to your treated fast food/food wrappers  It was quite interesting.

[Nashville]

10 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

I don't think anyone will ever beat her dramatics.  

Not with a fucking stick, even.  😁

[Nashville]

42 minutes ago, PaperTree said:

I'm sure people would quickly get bored if I talked about plastics a lot, but that was my career and that's what I know about. At the end I did paper treatment for grease resistance.  Compare untreated  newspaper/paper towels etc. to your treated fast food/food wrappers  It was quite interesting.

Hey - so long as the conversation doesn’t wander into the realm of non-nutritive semi-permeable cereal varnishes, I’m good.

[lawrbk]

On 5/25/2022 at 11:20 PM, dizzyd said:

I don’t think it was that she had a big move besides blindsiding Omar, it’s that for someone who talks as much as she does, she was able to fool the everyone into thinking she had no game when she was taking active steps to protect herself and was even able to keep her HII a secret. Lesson to all future players, keep your idols and advantages a secret, it can make the difference between winning and losing and if you haven’t learned after however many seasons these HIIs and advantages have been part of the game then don’t even bother going on the show. 

I hope we never go back to the live winner reveal. It’s a waste of time watching Mr. Jeff copter the urn from Fiji to LA and chat up some alums paid to make an appearance in the audience and ask some random kid who’s going to win. This is better and feels more authentic and emotions are raw. They should have been given some alcohol wipes before the pizza and champagne though.

Lindsey’s biggest mistake was not saving Omar with her idol last week or she’d have had the numbers to win. I still don’t get why she didn’t use it because it was her last chance to use it. 

I like the reveal there but wish we had a live reunion. One, so they’ve seen the season aired and may have interesting reactions after things have settled; two, to see the pre merge folk; and 3, it’s always fun to see how different they look! But I don’t miss the stupid filler with the audience, etc. I wonder if they get done out of the reunion bonus now since it’s just done there? I’d guess so which sucks.

[SVNBob]

11 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I think there are tradeoffs with going to the aftershow format of the last couple seasons, but I think overall the pros outweigh the cons. (Although admittedly, I didn't watch all/much of the aftershow this time)

Pros

Immediate reactions from people fresh in the moment

No/less filler as to random audience members reactions

Fewer opportunities for Peachy to try to make it about him (or so it seems to me)

Less of the pomp and circumstance trying to make it seem like Survivor is such an important social phenomenon

Less filler and replaying of clips

Cons

No chance to hear from pre-Merge contestants. I might have been curious to see Daniel again and hear some of what he had to say this season, for example.

I do kind of miss seeing everyone's glow-ups, the joyful reaction of family members and that sort of thing

No chance for the contestants to react to a bunch of stuff that makes the broadcast that they didn't know about at the time.

There's a simple solution then, and I think CBS could like it.  In two words: Do.  Both.

Still have an immediate reaction on-location aftershow.  But also have the post-series full cast reunion as a separate event.  This could extend the season an additional week or two, giving CBS more commercial spaces to sell.  As for how, that's really for another thread.

[millennium]

On 5/26/2022 at 5:56 PM, eel21788 said:

Did you know he is 57 years old?

He looks a lot older.

[DEL901]

2 hours ago, millennium said:

He looks a lot older.

Here he is more recently with MaryAnne.   

[Chicago Redshirt]

8 hours ago, PaperTree said:

That didn't bother me.  For a small minority of women their pageant thing is their whole life.  That Romeo seeks to inspire them to do their best, I think is a good thing.  I think pageants are stupid and well out of date, but it's his career whether he fell into it or chose it and it's what he knows.

I'm sure people would quickly get bored if I talked about plastics a lot, but that was my career and that's what I know about. At the end I did paper treatment for grease resistance.  Compare untreated  newspaper/paper towels etc. to your treated fast food/food wrappers  It was quite interesting.

Did "paper treatment" lead to the name Paper Tree or is that just coincidence?

[RedbirdNelly]

22 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I think there are tradeoffs with going to the aftershow format of the last couple seasons, but I think overall the pros outweigh the cons. (Although admittedly, I didn't watch all/much of the aftershow this time)

Pros

Immediate reactions from people fresh in the moment

No/less filler as to random audience members reactions

Fewer opportunities for Peachy to try to make it about him (or so it seems to me)

Less of the pomp and circumstance trying to make it seem like Survivor is such an important social phenomenon

Less filler and replaying of clips

Cons

No chance to hear from pre-Merge contestants. I might have been curious to see Daniel again and hear some of what he had to say this season, for example.

I do kind of miss seeing everyone's glow-ups, the joyful reaction of family members and that sort of thing

No chance for the contestants to react to a bunch of stuff that makes the broadcast that they didn't know about at the time.

you nailed it. I generally like the lack of live finale for the pro reasons you listed but I do feel like you esp miss out on the reactions after they watched. Is Mike as "I love everyone" after watching how Omar played him? 

But generally Jeff wastes so much time at the live reunion with stupid stuff, I'm 50/50 on what format is best

[PaperTree]

14 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Did "paper treatment" lead to the name Paper Tree or is that just coincidence?

It probably did, but I honestly don't remember😎.  It's been a while.

[ratgirlagogo]

On 5/28/2022 at 12:15 AM, millennium said:

Mike's vanity was nauseating.  He actually believed they all loved him and that they would not, could not ever consider giving the million dollars to somebody else.  He kept talking up his likeability like it was a law of physics.   

THIS.  I felt like he was  even less self-aware than Jonathan.

Congratulations to MaryAnne, a well-deserved victory.

[SummerDreams]

I'm happy Maryanne won. I wouldn't expect it after losing one out of four tribe mates from the get go. I thought the people in that tribe had no chance after that but Jonathan saved them. So Maryanne was both lucky and unlucky.

I would have been okay also with a Mike win because he didn't play a bad game but I would be scared that they would cast more older people had he won, something I would not particularly like. No offense to older people but I think they mostly want to prove they still "got it" and they lose the strategy aspect or they are control freaks like Rocks.

[rr2911]

I just finished watching Australian Survivor and I have to say I enjoyed their season better than S42.  AS had better challenges and better all-around play.  It brought back memories of what the American version once was.  There were no "cards" being thrown around.  It was all about strategy and the alliances that were made.  My favorite didn't win and the one I didn't want to win ended up winning, but the winner was well deserving of the title of Sole Survivor.

[SG429]

I'll be happy if I never have to hear him addressed as "Mr Jeff" again.

[Nashville]

On 6/1/2022 at 4:40 PM, SG429 said:

I'll be happy if I never have to hear him addressed as "Mr Jeff" again.

As a Southerner I feel triggered by this.

😁

[PhilMarlowe2]

On 5/27/2022 at 10:19 PM, PaperTree said:

That didn't bother me.  For a small minority of women their pageant thing is their whole life.  That Romeo seeks to inspire them to do their best, I think is a good thing.  I think pageants are stupid and well out of date, but it's his career whether he fell into it or chose it and it's what he knows.

I'm sure people would quickly get bored if I talked about plastics a lot, but that was my career and that's what I know about. At the end I did paper treatment for grease resistance.  Compare untreated  newspaper/paper towels etc. to your treated fast food/food wrappers  It was quite interesting.

I have no judgments against pageants. It's just how seriously he seemed to take all of it. He spoke about it with a level of drama that just seemed a bit over the top.

[rr2911]

Test

Edited June 5, 2022 by rr2911

[Nashville]

On 6/4/2022 at 9:49 PM, rr2911 said:

Test

Well?  Did the rabbit die, or not?

(Bonus points if you’re old enough to get that reference)

[meep.meep]

On 6/1/2022 at 2:40 PM, SG429 said:

I'll be happy if I never have to hear him addressed as "Mr Jeff" again.

I actually loved that.  Probst is famous for giving nicknames to people, what he calls you is somehow a sign of significance.  Jonathan calling him Mr. Jeff gave it right back to him.

[rr2911]

On 6/6/2022 at 2:10 PM, Nashville said:

Well?  Did the rabbit die, or not?

(Bonus points if you’re old enough to get that reference)

Lol!!  I'm old but don't get the reference.

[HurricaneVal]

The rabbit test was an early pregnancy test where (under spoiler tags for the squeamish)

Spoiler

urine was injected into a rabbit or other small animal--I think lab mice were also used--and if the woman was pregnant, the hormones would trick the rabbits system into thinking the rabbit was pregnant prompting certain changes to the rabbit's ovaries.  In order to determine if those changes had occurred, the rabbit had to be sacrificed for the ovaries to be examined.  So, regardless of whether the woman was pregnant or not, the rabbit always died. 

Thankfully, modern technology made this sort of test obsolete in the 1960s.  But the jokes remain.  One of my favorite M*A*S*H episodes had Lieutenant Houlihan thinking she was pregnant, and needing a test, and the only rabbits around were in Radar's menagerie.  So Hawkeye and BJ have to do a hysterectomy on Radar's bunny so they can do the test and not kill the rabbit.

[PurpleTentacle]

On 5/26/2022 at 5:30 AM, KaveDweller said:

I thought Maryanne should have responded to Jonathan that even if he and Mike first brought up voting for Omar, she is the one that actually did it. Anyone can sit around talking about taking out a threat, but Mike and Jonathan got scared and backed off. Ideas aren't the same as moves. Maryanne made it happen.

I don't think they did. They just split the vote, just in case and the it was edited a bit deceptively.

Still I give Maryanne credit for that one. She pulled it together.

On 5/26/2022 at 6:13 AM, Nashville said:

THIS is were i think Maryanne really pulled off the win, when she pulled that never-before-revealed HII out of her pocket.  P. T. Barnum would’ve given Maryanne props for that particular bit of showmanship, and IMHO the impact of that particular reveal right before the FTC votes were cast was what gave Maryanne a lock on the win - the jury was almost unanimously bowled over, and casting their votes before the panache had worn off.  Kudos, Maryanne.  👍🏻

You have a lot of "well this is just basic strategy" in your post and here I was thinking "well wipping out that idol in the strategy-section is just basic logic. I was waiting for that moment all throughout the FTC. So while it was very flashy and effective, it was also not some stroke of genious.

On 5/26/2022 at 7:35 AM, rr2911 said:

.  Romeo makes a boneheaded decision to pick Maryanne instead of Jonathon.  Romeo even admitted that taking Maryanne would be a huge risk because she is well liked.

Romeo wasn't winning against anybody in the F4 and he knew it. So he probably just picked who he liked most.

On 5/26/2022 at 8:29 AM, eskimo said:

The main thing I miss about the old after show is that the players have seen the season air. They're privy to things they aren't while still on the island.   I'd like to know if any opinions have changed.   

I kinda want both. An immediate debriefing and an aftershow after they've seen the show. But I don't think that's going to happen, since you'd still need to read the votes there and then they probably couldn't drum up enough excitement for the aftershow.

On 5/26/2022 at 8:56 AM, Mediocre Gatsby said:

That's a good point, and maybe why the juries concentrate so much now on trying to get the final 3 to articulate their game strategy. Since they didn't get to see much of it. 

The jury always asked questions and voted before they saw the show. It would be horrible if they voted after seeing the edit.

On 5/26/2022 at 3:40 PM, tracyscott76 said:

Making your pitch (aka "being the best talker") at the final tribal council has always been the last, most important requirement to win.

It has traditionally been far from the most important requirement. Usually the jury has made up their minds wayy beforehand. If Jeff doesn't ask who was undecided you can be sure that the vote was already set in stone. You could see it last season and you can see it in most.

This season is an exception to the rule.

On 5/26/2022 at 5:34 PM, iMonrey said:

I'm in the camp that whoever wins deserves to win, and I'm fine with Maryanne winning. But her win is due as much to other players falling to stupid tricks and twists as it is to her own gameplay or strategy. That's just where the game is now. It's outwitting and outlasting the game itself as much as the other players. 

I'd say Omar and Lindsay outplayed themselves. Nothing about that was them falling to tricks and twists. Had Lindsay played her idol for him, they would have been much more likely to make it to final three and then one of them would have won.

[PurpleTentacle]

On 5/26/2022 at 5:37 PM, iMonrey said:

And am I going too far to suggest there may be a bit of misogyny to Jonathan's character? Maryanne clearly deserved the win over Mike and he was the only one who couldn't bring himself to vote for her. That and the way he tended to talk down to other women just rubbed me the wrong way.

I don't think it's misogyny to vote for your buddy. Also most often the jury knows how the others voted and the single deviating vote is to make sure that person gets the second place price money alone, instead of having to share it.

On 5/27/2022 at 5:21 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

Hai explained perfectly well how it was gaslighting in this interview.

https://ew.com/tv/survivor-42-hai-giang-interview/

When you know that something occurred, and you want the other person to admit it, but they swear up and down that it didn't, and you're crazy, and you're imagining things, yes, that's gaslighting.  Yes, it's also a lie, but I don't think it's fair to dismiss Hai's term just because it's maybe too fancy or something.  I think it works.

People are just using gaslighting wrong and Hai used it perfectly wrong here, no matter how much he waffles on about it. Simply lying and trying to convince somebody of something that isn't true is not gaslighting.

You have to specifically try to make them think they are losing their mind, by lying, moving things around, dimming the lights, etc. over an extended amount of time.

The important part is that the victim loses their sense of reality, that qualifies something as gaslighting, not a simple lie. We already have a word for that. It's called a "lie". We don't need the relatively new word "gaslighting" for it.

On 5/27/2022 at 5:34 PM, tracyscott76 said:

Romeo's use of religion to back up his lie isn't great (though not much different than swearing on a family member's life),

Swearing on religion is about on the level as swearing on Santa. I have no problems with it but can't believe other adults put any kind of value on it...

On 5/28/2022 at 6:15 AM, millennium said:

There wasn't a single thing I liked about Romeo.  What an idiot to bring Maryanne to the final three with him.   Stupidest move since since Woo took Tony along. 

Woo would have won if he had taken somebody else. Romeo was never going to win and so brought the person he liked more. I can respect that. The two are not even remotely the same.

[millennium]

21 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

Romeo was never going to win and so brought the person he liked more.

This only reinforces my impression that Romeo's stupid.   If, as you suggest, he simply abandoned all hope of winning before the final Tribal and took along Maryanne to give her the win instead, he's an idiot.

[PurpleTentacle]

18 minutes ago, millennium said:

This only reinforces my impression that Romeo's stupid.   If, as you suggest, he simply abandoned all hope of winning before the final Tribal and took along Maryanne to give her the win instead, he's an idiot.

No, he's realistic. There was no possible way for him to win short of a mind control ray. An idiot would be somebody who thought they could win, in that situation.