S06.E05: Black and Blue

[SoMuchTV]

2 hours ago, wendyg said:

Does anyone have thoughts about the title of this episode? Because if you translate BLACK AND BLU E into Spanish you get NEGRO Y AZUL, which it-can't-be-coincidentally is the title of Season 2, episode 7 of BREAKING BAD.

 

26 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

Hmm, I'm not sure, but good catch. 

I had to remind myself what Negro & Azul was about. It starts with a Narcocorrido song "Negro & Azul," about Heisenberg (black hat) selling meth (blue). I can't figure out a connection betw that BB ep and this BCS ep. 

The ep after Negro & Azul is the one where Saul Goodman makes his debut.

BTW, I don't know if anyone else noticed this, but so far each title of this season is of a pairing: Wine and Roses, Carrot and Stick, Rock and Hard Place, Hit and Run, Black and Blue. Maybe this kind of goes with the pairing of Kim and Jimmy. Or Jimmy and Saul. OR Kim and... Giselle?

Someone (here? elsewhere?) pointed out that the BB episode following "Negro & Azul" was "Better Call Saul".  For whatever that's worth.

10 minutes ago, SimplexFish said:

Good catch! Wonder whats next?

IMDB has the titles up for the next two episodes, if you want more stuff to speculate on.

[SimplexFish]

Episode 6  Axe and Grind  "Kim and Jimmy enlist a knowledgeable contact; Howard scrutinizes Jimmy's business practices."

Episode 7 Plan and Execution  "Jimmy and Kim deal with a last-minute snag in their plan."

 

Both these episodes seem like they are gonna deal mainly with Kim/Saul vs Howard! I hope not...that will get boring quickly

Edited May 13, 2022 by SimplexFish

[PeterPirate]

There are a lot of reviews that discuss the meaning of color in the show.  

One popular theory is that the red house near Gus' house portends a violent conflict coming to him soon.  

[Penman61]

1 hour ago, PeterPirate said:

There are a lot of reviews that discuss the meaning of color in the show.  

One popular theory is that the red house near Gus' house portends a violent conflict coming to him soon.  

Given the character, the story lines, and the show, I’d bet my house and retirement that a violent conflict is coming to Gus soon.

[PeterPirate]

12 minutes ago, Penman61 said:

Given the character, the story lines, and the show, I’d bet my house and retirement that a violent conflict is coming to Gus soon.

No doubt.  I just expect it to take place in the lab, not in Gus' neighborhood.  But I overthink.  

Edited May 13, 2022 by PeterPirate

[Penman61]

1 hour ago, PeterPirate said:

No doubt.  I just expect it to take place in the lab, not in Gus' neighborhood.  But I overthink.  

Sorry, “in Gus’s neighborhood ” wasn’t clear to me. But even so, since Gus is in the same house in BB, safe to say if a big shootout/extreme violence happened there, the HOA didn’t hear about it. :)

Edited May 14, 2022 by Penman61

[Starchild]

4 hours ago, SoMuchTV said:

Someone (here? elsewhere?) pointed out that the BB episode following "Negro & Azul" was "Better Call Saul".  For whatever that's worth.

Any chance that means we've entered BB territory? Maybe Saul was setting up his new office space when Walt was getting his diagnosis?

4 hours ago, SimplexFish said:

Episode 7 Plan and Execution  "Jimmy and Kim deal with a last-minute snag in their plan."

Oh man, I hope "execution" doesn't point literally to Howard's demise.

Although if it's Lalo I'm OK with it.

[SoMuchTV]

3 minutes ago, Starchild said:

Any chance that means we've entered BB territory? Maybe Saul was setting up his new office space when Walt was getting his diagnosis?

Oh I didn’t mean to imply that the timelines were overlapping. Maybe the Speculation thread is the best place to go on with this. 

[Penman61]

Don’t know the site’s rules, but my own preference is to not see future episode spoilers, speculation, casting, or even titles in these episode discussion threads. 

[peeayebee]

Yeah, that's tricky. I remember discussion on the BB threads concerning a potted plant, and I was so pissed when it turned out to be true. I like being surprised when watching TV shows, but it's hard not to post in ep threads about what you think is going to happen.

[Penman61]

58 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

Yeah, that's tricky. I remember discussion on the BB threads concerning a potted plant, and I was so pissed when it turned out to be true. I like being surprised when watching TV shows, but it's hard not to post in ep threads about what you think is going to happen.

Yup, the lilies-of-the-valley sleuthing is the ur-example for me. Still makes me frosty now, lol, but I understand how it was good-faith speculation.

So I agree speculation can be a grey area (though we do have separate threads so labeled), but spoilers, casting, titles are not, imho. They are facts.

Anyway, boards on boards, amirite?

Edited May 14, 2022 by Penman61

[scenario]

I always thought that thinking about the future is what people do whenever they get together. Personally, I don't like just passively consuming things. I want to try to figure things out.

What I don't like are things like posting a stolen script on line. 

[SoMuchTV]

11 hours ago, Penman61 said:

Don’t know the site’s rules, but my own preference is to not see future episode spoilers, speculation, casting, or even titles in these episode discussion threads. 

Sorry, I think I started the derailment of this (episode) thread when I mentioned the existence of future episode titles on IMDb. I should have taken that to the speculation thread. I agree that the episode threads should be about the episode itself. I’m pretty sure that’s what the site policy is. 

[peeayebee]

2 hours ago, scenario said:

I always thought that thinking about the future is what people do whenever they get together. Personally, I don't like just passively consuming things. I want to try to figure things out.

Yeah, me too. That's why I said it's tricky (at least for me). Of course we talk about what Saul might do or what will happen to Kim. I don't know if I can really justify my anger at the lily-of-the-valley stuff.

[Joimiaroxeu]

I don't get why Howard didn't simply offer to take a drug test. Or would that be beneath his status as a partner? But it still wouldn't have solved the ongoing problem with Jimmy and Kim, which he still doesn't fully seem to comprehend.

Howard brought the gun show, lol. He was so pleased with his appearance.

Little Bear was multilingual. He understood German, Spanish, and English.

Quote

Gus's surveillance house is next door to his actual house, not across the street from it, right? Makes it much more believable; building a secret tunnel underneath a street, even a suburban neighborhood street, would be much, much harder than building one to the house on either side.

But how are they getting the camera view of the front of the house? Where's that camera mounted? Sometimes this show might go too far in making things extra complicated. In my opinion, of course.

[scenario]

3 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

I don't get why Howard didn't simply offer to take a drug test. Or would that be beneath his status as a partner? But it still wouldn't have solved the ongoing problem with Jimmy and Kim, which he still doesn't fully seem to comprehend.

Howard brought the gun show, lol. He was so pleased with his appearance.

Little Bear was multilingual. He understood German, Spanish, and English.

But how are they getting the camera view of the front of the house? Where's that camera mounted? Sometimes this show might go too far in making things extra complicated. In my opinion, of course.

It seems to me that if I was security, I'd want cameras on all sides of the house. Why couldn't Gus own all of the houses on all sides and officially live in the middle one. Watching just one side of the house doesn't seem very secure. 

[nodorothyparker]

MOD NOTE

Okay, guys, the episode titles are out there. The episode thread for Monday's episode is already up so it's not like it's a big secret. But we still go by the standard rule that episode threads should primarily be about what happened in this episode, with the understanding that there will naturally be a certain amount of offshoot conversation about everything that came before it.

While a little bit of speculation is bound to happen as events unfold, anything based on previews or spoilers that hasn't happened yet does not belong here. We have a speculation thread for that. If your post is a long analysis of what you think is going to happen mostly free of the actual episode, that also belongs in the speculation thread.

Because this show is a prequel that's now mostly merging with Breaking Bad, we know how much of this story ends and that's fine. But your posts in episode threads still need to be related to what's happening now and not just endless discussions of Breaking Bad.

[Milburn Stone]

There seems to be certainty here that Lalo did not kill the widow. Do we actually know that? We don't see her encounter Lalo, but why are we sure he's left the house?

[MBayGal]

17 hours ago, SoMuchTV said:

How in the world in mentioning the TITLE of an upcoming episode a spoiler?? They are in the public domain, they aren't some super secret, top secret, hidden decoder ring intel! The writers certainly don't put any spoilers in the titles.

Remember four episode titles from Season 2 of Breaking Bad?  "747" "Down" "Over" "ABQ".  Still I don't think mentioning episode titles, which anyone could find, should be considered a spoiler.

Edited May 15, 2022 by MBayGal

[SoMuchTV]

Just now, MBayGal said:

Remember four episode titles from Season 2 of Breaking Bad?  "747" "Down" "Over" "ABQ".

For the record, that wasn’t me you were responding to, it was a post I had also responded to. I think a mod has since moved or removed that whole conversation as we had strayed far off topic. 

[scenario]

1 hour ago, Milburn Stone said:

There seems to be certainty here that Lalo did not kill the widow. Do we actually know that? We don't see her encounter Lalo, but why are we sure he's left the house?

From what we've seen Lalo is a ruthless killer but he's not a random killer. He seems to kill for two reasons. He kills when its in his best interest to kill such as killing a witness to one of his crimes or someone whose dangerous to him and his family. Or if someone has seen him vulnerable like the doctor who saved him a few seasons ago or the couple earlier this season.

As long as the widow never see's him, she's not a threat to him. And she saw him at his best and most charming. 

He's logical. Killing her would draw attention of too many people. And he left a lot of fingerprints. As soon as they figure out its him, they'll be international law after him. 

[peeayebee]

Also, since the last shot is of the widow looking out the open window, one can assume Lalo has left. He got what he needed.

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, peeayebee said:

Also, since the last shot is of the widow looking out the open window, one can assume Lalo has left. He got what he needed.

Yes.  Speculation is fun but speculation can also make things murkier than intended or needs to be.  BB and BCS leaves room for it because they do tease things.  But they try to be economical in their story telling and not spell everything out, trusting the audience to know what is going on.  It's what I like about the show. I think the open windows is an example of the latter. Did they need to show Lalo jumping out the window for me to think he jumped out the window and left her alive?  No.

If he wanted to kill her, he wouldn't have waited to enter the house until after she left for work. He could have done it while she was sleeping, killed her and searched the house. He wouldn't have waited silently upstairs when she returned.  He could have just gone downstairs and killed her or knocked her out.  Instead, he found what he needed and found an alternate way to leave.

At that point, if TPTB wanted us to believe Margarethe got killed, they would have had to show us because all their hints indicated Lalo didn't kill her.

 

Edited May 15, 2022 by Irlandesa

[Constantinople]

I just rewatched the ending scene.

The last room we see Lalo in is the office or den with the slideruler memorial. That's also the room with the open window, presumably opened by Lalo, either to provide an explanation for Little Bear's barking or a means for Lalo to escape or both.

I don't see how Lalo could have left via the window without making noise, and before Margarethe started walking upstairs, Little Bear stopped barking. It was very quiet.

The window also isn't tall enough for Lalo to crouch in it and jump free of the building. He'd have to go out the window head first or feet first, and I don't see how he could do that without making a thud against the building. There doesn't appear to be a ledge outside the window. It appears to be a straight drop.

If Lalo was already outside, hanging from the window with his arms while facing the building, he might be able to use his feet to push off from the building and jump to the ground. But there doesn't appear to be any way he could get to that position from inside the office given the size and shape of the window and the placement of the furniture in that room.

But there also doesn't appear to be any place in the room where Lalo could hide. Nor do I see how he could slip behind Margarethe and go downstairs while she glanced in the bedroom before she walked over to the office. And even if he did, shouldn't Little Bear have started to bark again?

Edited May 15, 2022 by Constantinople

[scenario]

5 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

I just rewatched the ending scene.

The last room we see Lalo in is the office or den with the slideruler memorial. That's also the room with the open window, presumably opened by Lalo, either to provide an explanation for Little Bear's barking or a means for Lalo to escape or both.

I don't see how Lalo could have left via the window without making noise, and before Margarethe started walking upstairs, Little Bear stopped barking. It was very quiet.

The window also isn't tall enough for Lalo to crouch in it and jump free of the building. He'd have to go out the window head first or feet first, and I don't see how he could do that without making a thud against the building. There doesn't appear to be a ledge outside the window. It appears to be a straight drop.

If Lalo was already outside, hanging from the window with his arms while facing the building, he might be able to use his feet to push off from the building and jump to the ground. But there doesn't appear to be any way he could get to that position from inside the office given the size and shape of the window and the placement of the furniture in that room.

But there also doesn't appear to be any place in the room where Lalo could hide. Nor do I see how he could slip behind Margarethe and go downstairs while she glanced in the bedroom before she walked over to the office. And even if he did, shouldn't Little Bear have started to bark again?

That's where magic Lalo came in. He's the same Lalo that could crawl through a drop ceiling without making a sound. He's also the Lalo that escaped from an entire hit team.  I think this is just one of those suspend your disbelief situations. He did it because the writers said he could. Compared to some of the stuff that happened in BB this is minor. 

[Constantinople]

2 hours ago, scenario said:

That's where magic Lalo came in. He's the same Lalo that could crawl through a drop ceiling without making a sound. He's also the Lalo that escaped from an entire hit team.  I think this is just one of those suspend your disbelief situations. He did it because the writers said he could. Compared to some of the stuff that happened in BB this is minor. 

If there are two or more explanations for what happened but only one requires magic, then it's reasonable for the writers of a show to expect the viewers to subscribe to the non magical explanation (unless the show has a magical setting). But here all explanations, at least all explanations that don't end with Lalo killing Margarethe require Magic Lalo: Lalo escaped via the window, Lalo hid somewhere in the house until Margarethe left or Lalo snuck past Margarethe.

Thus, there's no more reason to believe Magic Lalo is outside the house than inside. And there are plenty of reasons to believe Lalo would want more time to look through Werner's stuff. Right now all he appears to know is the name of the company that made the slide rule memorial (and maybe its address). But that could very well be a dead end.

That's not economic, efficient story telling where the audience is expected to fill in the dots. That's just not providing an explanation. At least not yet. There may be an explanation in a later episode.

In the examples cited Lalo either did make a sound (Fred from Travel Wire heard Lalo up in the ceiling once Fred got off the phone) or at least showed the audience how Lalo did what he did (circling back to the tunnel to take out much of the hit squad). Viewers may not find either scene particularly credible, but they're fleshed out in much greater detail than here. Here Lalo simply vanishes, whether outside or to some other location in the house.

[Penman61]

Remember also that Margarethe’s window closing ends the episode. Be a weird cliffhanger, structurally, for Lalo to still be in the room next episode.

Edited May 16, 2022 by Penman61

[PeterPirate]

The way I figure it, all of Lalo's scenes were filmed in real buildings somewhere in Europe.  The writers did not specify the size of the window nor its height above the floor; they just wrote something like "Margarethe sees the open window and closes it".  It just so happens the house the crew chose to film in had that particular window.  

In other words, I don't believe they built a set with the intent of being  ambiguous.  So I'm going with the Occam's Razor interpretation that Lalo exited through the window.  

But hey, I still think it farcical that Werner used a slide rule.    

Edited May 16, 2022 by PeterPirate

[SimplexFish]

I'm ready for the next episode... 😜

[peeayebee]

I'm 100% sure the director/writer intended for us to see the open window and know that Lalo went out of it. Giving logistical explanations, I'll point out that the roof is flat. Lalo could have stepped onto the bottom edge of the open window and hoisted himself onto the roof. I think the window is plenty big to get thru. Also, there's a table just to the left of the window with a sculpture thingy that's moving. 

[scenario]

Okay, I just had to go back and look. That seems to be on the side of the house with a porch below it so not much of a drop. And when he got into the house, they show him easily jump over the fence with no difficulty so I can see him lifting himself up and over the window and dropping down onto the porch. There was traffic noise and birds so any small sound would be muffled. And the dog was downstairs on the other side of the house. 

[SimplexFish]

Cunningham's Law states: "The best way to get the right answer on the Internet is not to ask a question, it's to post the wrong answer."

[Constantinople]

43 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

I'll point out that the roof is flat. Lalo could have stepped onto the bottom edge of the open window and hoisted himself onto the roof. I think the window is plenty big to get thru. Also, there's a table just to the left of the window with a sculpture thingy that's moving. 

I could see him hoisting himself to the roof once he was already outside, standing on the bottom edge of the window.

I don't see how he could have gotten to that point. The window's height is slightly less than that of one of the book shelves in the bookcase on the adjoining wall. I don't see how Lalo could back up to the window while inside, reach up, pull his head out the window, then pull his entire body into through the the window, then pull himself up so that his feet are on the bottom edge of the window.

If that's possible, that's an Olympic level gymnast. Lalo looks to be in good shape, but not that kind of shape. And even Olympic gymnasts often slip or fall.

The table was underneath and a little to the side of the window. If he used the table, he'd be going out the window at a diagonal to the window. That seems even harder. And the table had lots of stuff on it, yet one thing on it was barely moving. So much so that Margarethe didn't even notice it. How could he have gotten out the window without knocking off some of the items on the table?

29 minutes ago, scenario said:

Okay, I just had to go back and look. That seems to be on the side of the house with a porch below it so not much of a drop. And when he got into the house, they show him easily jump over the fence with no difficulty so I can see him lifting himself up and over the window and dropping down onto the porch. There was traffic noise and birds so any small sound would be muffled. And the dog was downstairs on the other side of the house. 

I think he could get out thee window, but only if he jumped head first, got his head out and he window, pulled himself through so that at some points in time the front part of his body will be outside hanging down, then pull the rest of his body through by dragging the front part of his body forward (down) against the wall underneath the window, then falling head first.

I just don't see how he can do that without making a noticeable noise. By far the loudest noise when Lalo returns to the house is the background music setting the scene. Even then we hear the noise Lalo makes when he jumps the fence.

 

On a completely different note, does anyone know how much time elapsed between Howard charming the Sandpiper plaintiffs and Kim going to lunch with Viola?

I'm just wondering if the mediation was discussed with the plaintiffs before Erin talked to them about discovery. And if so, perhaps Howard should have mentioned that ("We want to finish as quickly is possible, which is why we agreed to mediation, but blah blah blah").

Would the name of the mediator be in the court records? If so, was Kim worried that someone might see her at the courthouse and wonder why she was looking through the Sandpiper paperwork?

Would that information be available electronically in the mid aughties? Does Kim even have a laptop? Or does she not want to risk any kind of electronic trail?

[PeterPirate]

14 hours ago, SimplexFish said:

I'm ready for the next episode... 😜

The mid-season break is going to be brutal.

Broooo-tal.  

Edited May 16, 2022 by PeterPirate
Add hard break.

[JudyObscure]

I can't picture how Lalo got out of the window, but I can picture him jumping easily to the ground because we saw him jump a very long drop into the ravine in the desert to check out Saul's car.  He certainly does have magical ankles.

[Milburn Stone]

12 hours ago, Constantinople said:

...there's no more reason to believe Magic Lalo is outside the house than inside. And there are plenty of reasons to believe Lalo would want more time to look through Werner's stuff...

I'm glad I'm not alone in fearing for Margarethe's outcome. 

An additional reason I fear for her is that in the BCS/BB universe, innocent bystanders stand a very poor chance of survival when their paths cross those of the non-innocent. The show does not give us very many happy endings, compared to the other kind.

Tonight's episode may answer the question. But if it doesn't--if it leaves us to wonder what happened to Margarethe--I know which side of the wondering I'll be coming down on, simply because of the expectations this show and BB have created in me.

Edited May 16, 2022 by Milburn Stone

[PeterPirate]

I suppose it's possible Lalo will want to ask Margarethe who "the boys" are.  She told Lalo she never met them but he might want to press her to remember something.  Highly unlikely, imo, but not impossible. 

Aside from that I cannot think of a reason why Lalo would stick around the house.  And even if he was into gratuitous violence it would be sheer lunacy to commit a murder in a foreign country when there are people at the restaurant who saw them together.  

Edited May 16, 2022 by PeterPirate

[SimplexFish]

10 hours ago, PeterPirate said:

The mid-season break is going to be brutal.  Broooo-tal.  

Agreed! How long is the break for?

[peeayebee]

I think that's it for Margarethe, by which I mean that she played her part in the show and we won't see her again. She and Little Bear are fine.

12 hours ago, scenario said:

Okay, I just had to go back and look. That seems to be on the side of the house with a porch below it so not much of a drop.

I believe the window must be on the side of the house we can't see because the window is surrounded by corrugated metal outside rather than wood.

Also, if you go back and look at the room, you can just barely see footprints on the wall below the window...

Nah, I'm just messing with you. :D

[Ellaria]

9 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

I think that's it for Margarethe, by which I mean that she played her part in the show and we won't see her again. She and Little Bear are fine.

I believe the window must be on the side of the house we can't see because the window is surrounded by corrugated metal outside rather than wood.

Also, if you go back and look at the room, you can just barely see footprints on the wall below the window...

Nah, I'm just messing with you. :D

Agree. I don’t  think that we will see anything further of Margarethe and Little Bear. Lalo found something that was of use to him and he is gone. There is a lot of story left to tell and not that much time in which to tell it.

And - as an aside - I am usually wrong.

[sunbum51]

13 hours ago, PeterPirate said:

The way I figure it, all of Lalo's scenes were filmed in real buildings somewhere in Europe.  The writers did not specify the size of the window nor its height above the floor; they just wrote something like "Margarethe sees the open window and closes it".  It just so happens the house the crew chose to film in had that particular window.  

In other words, I don't believe they built a set with the intent of being  ambiguous.  So I'm going with the Occam's Razor interpretation that Lalo exited through the window.  

But hey, I still think it farcical that Werner used a slide rule.    

this episode was filmed entirely in abq btw, no travel involved (per bcs insider episode) :-)

[peeayebee]

The location scout did a great job. I love that "German" house.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

58 minutes ago, sunbum51 said:

this episode was filmed entirely in abq btw, no travel involved (per bcs insider episode) :-)

ABQ has Euro-style trains?

The establishing shots of the city simply had to be filmed elsewhere.  The density of the buildings was much too high, imo.

I can buy that no scenes involving cast were shot overseas.

[PeterPirate]

42 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

The location scout did a great job. I love that "German" house.

1 hour ago, sunbum51 said:

this episode was filmed entirely in abq btw, no travel involved (per bcs insider episode) :-)

I suppose.  But the exterior shot of Margarethe's home includes dense foliage for miles and miles.  There are also two buildings in the background with tall spires, which I interpret as Gothic (ie, German).  

Also, the light rail train was blue and was powered by overhead lines.  I did a quick search of "Albuquerque light rail" and got the following:  

I suppose it's possible they sent a second unit crew, including body doubles, to Germany just to get the exterior shots.  And then built a set that matched the front gate for the close-ups.  But I still prefer to think they sent Tony Dalton to Germany.   

ETA:  On the flip side, the actress who played Margarethe moved to the US from Hungary.  Also, the windows that appear in the exterior shot appear to go up-and-down instead of side-to-side.  

Edited May 16, 2022 by PeterPirate

[Gobi]

43 minutes ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

ABQ has Euro-style trains?

The establishing shots of the city simply had to be filmed elsewhere.  The density of the buildings was much too high, imo.

I can buy that no scenes involving cast were shot overseas.

Quite possibly cgi. It’s used a lot for background locations.

[PeterPirate]

Mrs. Ryman is the one drives Mike into their house.  And as she enters the driveway the number 1209 is visible next to the front door.  So, they live next door, not across the street.  

Sidenote:  I have found that if I put my phone camera up to my monitor, not only will it magnify the image, it will produce a much brighter one.  

Sidenote 2:  I don't know what I am going to with my time after this show ends.  At least until the premiere of Wexler Loves Lalo. 

[peeayebee]

Here's an interview with Executive Producer Melissa Bernstein about the episode. Filming the Germany scenes:

Quote

We had to find a bar setting and an interior and an exterior for Margarethe’s house that felt like they were outside of our Albuquerque, New Mexico world. We knew visual effects would be some part of it, but our hope is always that we can start with the practical and then embroider on the practical to make it something special and new.

 

[SoMuchTV]

52 minutes ago, PeterPirate said:

Sidenote 2:  I don't know what I am going to with my time after this show ends.  At least until the premiere of Wexler Loves Lalo. 

Okay, now you're just messing with us.

[Gobi]

Wexler Loves Lalo - Lalo is captured, tried, and convicted. He is sentenced to serve as Kim Wexler's butler for ten years. Wacky hijinks ensue.

[carrps]

I bet Lalo would be a super suave butler.