S06.E01: Echoes

[Athena]

Quote

Jamie's authority is tested when an old rival from Ardsmuir shows up to settle on the Ridge; Claire finds a new way to cope with the trauma of her assault by Lionel Brown.

Reminder: The is the book talk thread. This may include spoilers for ALL the books. If you wish to remain unspoiled for any of the books, please leave now and head to the No Book Talk episode thread.

[GHScorpiosRule]

UGH. MALVA.

I HATEHATEHATEHATE what they’ve done to Fergus. 

LOOOOOOOOOVED the cold open. I miss Jamie’s short hair.

Not sure how much to say without spoilers since I watched it from the app.

Oh, hearing Jamie say “guid” and hearing Sam’s Scots burr had me ❤️💗💓💞💕❤️🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰

I hated buik Tom, and I also hate Show Tom.

Wot??? Where’s Rollo?????

[emmawoodhouse]

Diana is getting mixed reviews (was she credited as a writer?).

 

[ruby24]

Eh. I liked Book 6, but I don't know about any of the Christie's so far. Hard to picture them carrying a season with their storyline. 

Also, I don't remember Claire becoming an ether addict? Maybe I forgot. Did that happen in the book?

Don't like that they're sticking with that horrible book Fergus stuff. It was especially bad because it gets completely glossed over and basically never mentioned again pretty quickly, like no one really cares that he apparently beats Marsali? After some point in the book that's never even brought up again.

Edited March 7, 2022 by ruby24

[emmawoodhouse]

Diana confirms that Claire didn't huff ether in the buiks.

 

[GHScorpiosRule]

43 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

Eh. I liked Book 6, but I don't know about any of the Christie's so far. Hard to picture them carrying a season with their storyline. 

Also, I don't remember Claire becoming an ether addict? Maybe I forgot. Did that happen in the book?

Don't like that they're sticking with that horrible book Fergus stuff. It was especially bad because it gets completely glossed over and basically never mentioned again pretty quickly, like no one really cares that he apparently beats Marsali? After some point in the book that's never even brought up again.

Oh hell. I’d forgotten that buik Fergus actually beat Marsali. They’ve changed so much they couldn’t have left this out?

And like posted above, Claire dial don’t use the ether to escape tye memories of her rape.

It’s been so long since be ready the series, I don’t remember if these Browns are a deviation, or if the show is using what happened in the buik.

But for me? My favorite part was the cold opening in Ardsmuir and Jamie telling Brown “My land. My means.” when dealing with Allan’s punishment.

After losing my own fur baby (okay my niece’s, but he was also my baby) last Fall, I really was looking forward to seeing Rollo! But he was nowhere to be found.

All that said, I’m sae happy tae have the show back!

[snowbryneich]

48 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

Don't like that they're sticking with that horrible book Fergus stuff. It was especially bad because it gets completely glossed over and basically never mentioned again pretty quickly, like no one really cares that he apparently beats Marsali? After some point in the book that's never even brought up again.

Fergus does have a bad time in the books where he is awol a large amount of the time but I believe when Claire and Brianna think he's abusing Marsali it's a misunderstanding. He shouts at one of their children for spilling milk (that he's struggled to milk one handed) and Marsali has a flashback to one of laoghaire's husbands before Jamie who was abusive and tries to hit Fergus with a stick and he bruises her arm when he grabs her fending her off. It's never stated he actually hit her and its that and his subsequent 

Spoiler

Suicide attempt 

That lead to Jamie deciding to send them away from the ridge because Fergus can't farm and needs to live somewhere he can provide for his family with none manual labour.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

That makes more sense. Domestic abuse between them isn't mentioned on the wiki.

Edited March 7, 2022 by Noneofyourbusiness

[snowbryneich]

I thought all the Christies were excellently cast, with the overly rigid dad and the likable kids. Though i hate the kids in the books because of how it ends and I definitely don't want to like Alan knowing what he's doing to his sister and I end up having some sympathy for Tom. But I can definitely see how Claire will bond with Malva given how outgoing she is. I do think having Mark Lewis Jones as a contemporary of Jamie does not help the already difficult job of perceiving Sam as in his 50s. 

Did people abuse ether? It seems ineffective if it'll wear off in 4 mins and like laudanum would be more effective to numb yourself long-term but I suppose there were less side effects?

[GHScorpiosRule]

15 minutes ago, snowbryneich said:

Fergus does have a bad time in the books where he is awol a large amount of the time but I believe when Claire and Brianna think he's abusing Marsali it's a misunderstanding

I do remember that, and thanks for confirming Fergus isn’t an abuser. I hate that Roberts thinks it’s a good idea to ruin a wonderful character this way.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

6 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I do remember that, and thanks for confirming Fergus isn’t an abuser. I hate that Roberts thinks it’s a good idea to ruin a wonderful character this way.

Well, we've only seen the same bruise mentioned above, so chances are he's not an abuser on the show either.

[Jodithgrace]

It’s been eons since I read the earlier books, and I’m a bit confused. Who was Christie at Ardsmuire? He seemed to be a prisoner, but not Scottish and on a different level. The opening made it clear that he and Jamie were at odds, but they didn’t say what he was doing there, or did they and I just missed it?

[sas616]

11 minutes ago, Jodithgrace said:

It’s been eons since I read the earlier books, and I’m a bit confused. Who was Christie at Ardsmuire? He seemed to be a prisoner, but not Scottish and on a different level. The opening made it clear that he and Jamie were at odds, but they didn’t say what he was doing there, or did they and I just missed it?

Same for me.   I remember him being at Ardsmurie, but not how he came to be there.   Couldn't figure out if he was at Culloden or not, since he made it clear he did not want a Catholic King.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

22 minutes ago, Jodithgrace said:

It’s been eons since I read the earlier books, and I’m a bit confused. Who was Christie at Ardsmuire? He seemed to be a prisoner, but not Scottish and on a different level. The opening made it clear that he and Jamie were at odds, but they didn’t say what he was doing there, or did they and I just missed it?

He's Scottish, hence the accent, but Presbyterian.

From the wiki: "The son of a self-made merchant from Edinburgh, Tom inherited his father's business as a young man. When the Stuart Rising began in 1745, he paid a visit to O'Sullivan, the quartermaster-general and adjutant for the Jacobite army, and came away from the meeting as a commissary officer. He followed the army through the campaign, but left it at Nairn the day before the Battle of Culloden. He had left it too late, though – driving a commissary wagon, he was waylaid by a government troop of Campbells, and they arrested him."

[WatchrTina]

On 3/6/2022 at 3:27 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

UGH. MALVA.

Ditto.  I have dreaded her arrival.

 

On 3/6/2022 at 3:27 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

I HATEHATEHATEHATE what they’ve done to Fergus. 

Yeah, what IS that they are doing?  That seemed to come out of nowhere.  I have the vaguest of recollections that somewhere in this VERY long book series Fergus suffers depression because his disability means he can't fight alongside the men of the Ridge, but we're not on a war footing yet so I was surprised to see that issue raised so soon.  But perhaps I'm misremembering.  Perhaps Fegus' depression comes sooner in the saga than I am remembering and is triggered by the constant building going on on the Ridge -- a task that Fergus is ill-equipped to take part in.

 

On 3/6/2022 at 3:27 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

LOOOOOOOOOVED the cold open. I miss Jamie’s short hair.

Ooooh Ditto.  And I'll bet Sam enjoyed getting to portray a whole new version of Jamie in those scenes.  We've seen Jamie-the-leader-of-men at Ardsmuir before but this early-Ardsmuir Jamie is super angsty.  Claire is gone, the war is lost, and while he chose to have himself turned in so his sister could collect the reward, in this flashback he appears to be newly incarcerated and still struggling to make peace with that decision.  That's not a version of Jamie we've seen before.

 

On 3/6/2022 at 3:27 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

I hated buik Tom, and I also hate Show Tom.

The whole family is toxic.  I know a story needs antagonists to move the plot forward but, damn. 

 

On 3/6/2022 at 7:17 PM, ruby24 said:

like no one really cares that he [Fergus] apparently beats Marsali?

I don't remember that from the books but yeah, she did have an unexplained bruise on her hand.  I'm going to cling to the hope that it is the result of drunken clumsiness on his part and not that he hit his heavily pregnant wife.  (She got manhandled quite enough last season when Claire's kidnappers knocked her unconscious thankyouverymuch.)

 

On 3/6/2022 at 7:59 PM, emmawoodhouse said:

Diana confirms that Claire didn't huff ether in the buiks.

Add me to the list of people who HATE Claire self-medicating with ether.  I do recall that Claire suffered from prolonged PTSD in the books - the result of her being kidnapped, beaten and raped - but yeah, self-medicating by huffing ether didn't enter in to it.  In the books we are in her head (she's a first person narrator) so we have a very clear window into what she is feeling.  Screenwriters have a harder time in that they have to "show, don't tell" everything.  But choosing to show THAT was a choice I'm not too keen on.

 

On 3/6/2022 at 8:11 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

Oh hell. I’d forgotten that buik Fergus actually beat Marsali. They’ve changed so much they couldn’t have left this out?

He DID?  I don't remember that.  I remember him being depressed for a while but not becoming an abuser.  I wonder if I mentally glossed over that because I didn't want to see a character I am fond of go down that road.

 

On 3/6/2022 at 8:17 PM, snowbryneich said:

Fergus does have a bad time in the books where he is awol a large amount of the time but I believe when Claire and Brianna think he's abusing Marsali it's a misunderstanding.

Ah, thank you.  That does ring a bell.  I'll sit back and let that unfold in the show, but I still say that Fergus' discontent seems to have manifested rather abruptly.  Then again, it's been two years since last season aired . . . maybe Fergus' feelings of inadequacy were hinted at in the prior season and I've just forgotten.

Edited March 9, 2022 by WatchrTina

[ruby24]

See, I don't remember them explaining that it was a misunderstanding. I just remember everyone from Claire to Jaime and even Roger, assuming that Fergus beat Marsali and then going into Fergus's depression/suicide attempt, etc. But I don't remember it ever saying that he didn't actually hit her.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

13 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

Ah, thank you.  That does ring a bell.  I'll sit back and let that unfold in the show, but I still say that Fergus' discontent seems to have manifested rather abruptly.  Then again, it's been two years since last season aired . . . maybe Fergus' feelings of inadequacy were hinted at in the prior season and I've just forgotten.

In Season 4 or 5, Marsali told Murtagh to ask Fergus to fight with him so that he wouldn't feel like less than a man for not even being asked, and Murtagh did so and Fergus turned him down because being with his family was more important. He hasn't show signs of feeling inadequate since then.

On the other thread, they're saying an interview said it was because he couldn't protect Marsali when Lionel Brown attacked.

Edited March 7, 2022 by Noneofyourbusiness

[snowbryneich]

7 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

That does ring a bell.  I'll sit back and let that unfold in the show, but I still say that Fergus' discontent seems to have manifested rather abruptly.  Then again, it's been two years . . . maybe Fergus' feelings of inadequacy were hinted at in the last season and I've just forgotten.

Yeah in the book Marsali tended the malting shed in part because she and Fergus couldnt be as productive while farming because of his disability and thats where she and claire were when the browns attacked, so it's lingering guilt over that that leads to his feeling inadequate? I think they were just at the house in the show so it isn't as obvious this is all linked? Though the still was burned so maybe I'm just mixing up the show locations.

[WatchrTina]

22 minutes ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

On the other thread, they're saying an interview said it was because he couldn't protect Marsali when Lionel Brown attacked.

I re-watched that episode earlier today and I don't think Fergus was at the big house when the attack came.  I recall a scene of very-pregnant Marsali being knocked to the floor unconscious and I feel certain that if Fergus had been there he would have fought to the death to defend her (and Claire).  But, okay, I can imagine him having a kind of "survivors guilt" over the fact that he was not home to defend her when the attack came.  

The other thing that may be troubling him is that he may doubt whether he COULD have defended her if he HAD been home when the attack came.  Fergus has been one-handed for a long time now so I'm betting he's learned to aim a pistol with his remaining hand but he probably can't load it.  Have we ever seen Fergus swing a sword?  I'm guessing he never acquired that skill.  His survival skills are more . . . subtle (i.e., negotiations and picking pockets.)

Edited March 7, 2022 by WatchrTina

[Atlanta]

I need to re-read Echo. IIRC, Fergus wasn't abusive. He eventually becomes a printer and has The Onion. LOL

[jqdeco]

In the books, Fergus became depressed after Henri-Christian was born because he worried about his future. He didn’t want Henri-Christian to end up a prostitute to survive, like Fergus was as a young boy. At least that is what I remember.

Like everyone else, I hate Claire using ether to deal with the rape. 

[Haleth]

Ugh.  I can't stand the Christies.  Maybe the only good thing about this abbreviated season is that we won't have to watch them week after week.  

8 hours ago, Jodithgrace said:

Who was Christie at Ardsmuire?

As I recall he was chosen by the commander at the prison as spokesman for the prisoners.  He was supposed to keep the prisoners in line.  Then Jamie showed up and proved to be someone the prisoners admired and would follow and ended up taking Tom's place.

I remember in this book Fergus is usually drunk and pretty caustic to Marsali and the kids.  His inability to do farm labor sent him into a depression.  This leads to him learning and loving his new trade later on.

My goodness, the big house is gorgeous.  I cannot imagine how a bunch of ragtag farmers managed to build such a stately home and fill it with such elegant furnishings so far out in the wilderness.

Any thoughts on the opening song as a duet?

Edited March 7, 2022 by Haleth

[Cementhead]

1 hour ago, Haleth said:

As I recall he was chosen by the commander at the prison as spokesman for the prisoners.  He was supposed to keep the prisoners in line.  Then Jamie showed up and proved to be someone the prisoners admired and would follow and ended up taking Tom's place.

Thank you!  I admittedly didn't love the way the show opened with the prison flashback and my confusion over their relationship carried over into the rest of the show and took me out of rest of the scenes between the two men.  I knew their was some sort of power struggle between them but couldn't quite nail it.

1 hour ago, Haleth said:

Any thoughts on the opening song as a duet?

This is the only show with an opening song that gives me goosebumps every single time I listen to it and this new version was no different.  It was a little jarring at first when the woman started singing.  My thought process:  'Oh, it's a duet!  Okay...  Oh, they are singing it as a round.?' It will grow on me.  I said to my husband that there is not a more fitting opener for a show than this one.  It's always so beautifully uplifting and sad at the same time.

I found this episode to be a slog.  If the general theme and mood this season is going to be centered on addiction, then I guess I can turn my disappointment about  this being a shortened season into relief.

Edited March 7, 2022 by Cementhead
added a thought.

[SassAndSnacks]

ABOSAA is one of my favorite books of the entire series, so I'm a little nervous about how this season is going to play out.  Overall, I thought this was one of the strongest season openers, and certainly the best since Season 3 (I know, not a high bar to beat there).  

I understand where they are going with Fergus, but it would have been better to see him slowly descend into his despair.  He's just suddenly a drunk, which didn't quite fit right with how we've seen him portrayed.  And like many others, I am absolutely NOT a fan of them setting up an addiction for Claire.  I want to see her deal with what has happened to her (because the books kinda gloss it and only bring it up occasionally), but I hate the decision to make her an addict.  That said, I thought Cait acted that final scene beautifully, and I was wide-eyed and on the edge of my seat.  

I LOVE the show's use of the Book prologues.  We've seen them used so effectively before, most recently in the Season 5 finale when Jamie is heading back from Brownsville after delivering Lionel's body.  I had always read that with Claire's voice in my head, but hearing it through Jamie made it even more poignant.  THIS episode featured two prologues - the opening VO was the prologue from ABSOAA and Claire's final VO was the prologue from DIA.  Both gave me chills and that weird feeling of "I know these words" but holy shit, how she said them.  Wow. 

 

13 hours ago, ruby24 said:

Don't like that they're sticking with that horrible book Fergus stuff.

100% agree.  This was a great opportunity to improve upon a poor book storyline and the show is seemingly going to fail.

12 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I hate that Roberts thinks it’s a good idea to ruin a wonderful character this way.

Agree with this too.  On the upside, we'll surely get more of Cesar Domboy as a result.  

17 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

UGH. MALVA.

Is she my least favorite OL character?  Pretty sure she is.  I know, there are lots of baddies, but the difference is you knew they were baddies, she's a passive aggressive baddie, which is the worst kind.  Unpopular opinion, I have no sympathy for her.  

10 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

We've seen Jamie-the-leader-of-men at Ardsmuir before but this early-Ardsmuir Jamie is super angsty.

The Ardsmuir scenes, while a tad too long, were so well done.  And the vision of Claire walking to him as he's being flogged, so great.  

2 hours ago, Haleth said:

As I recall he was chosen by the commander at the prison as spokesman for the prisoners.  He was supposed to keep the prisoners in line.  Then Jamie showed up and proved to be someone the prisoners admired and would follow and ended up taking Tom's place.

Yes, this is spot on.  Christie became resentful that Jamie so easily could be everything that he (Christie) could never be.

[GHScorpiosRule]

10 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

He DID?  I don't remember that.  I remember him being depressed for a while but not becoming an abuser.  I wonder if I mentally glossed over that because I didn't want to see a character I am fond of go down that road.

On reading subsequent comments here, I was mistaken in thinking he did; I do remember him worrying about Henri, and his depression. But the way Roberts wrote the episode, it's giving the impression that Fergus has turned into an abusive drunk. The way Marsali snatched her hand away when Claire noticed the bruise.

I really hate, hate, hate how they've changed the story as to how Claire is dealing with her rape, by self-medicating with the ether. I'm really hoping, hoping, hoping that Jamie catches her doing it and he can help her deal with it. He's also a survivor of rape, so the argument can't be used that 'he's a man. he couldn't understand.'

[GHScorpiosRule]

5 minutes ago, SassAndSnacks said:

she's a passive aggressive baddie, which is the worst kind.  Unpopular opinion, I have no sympathy for her.  

I don't think that's unpopular. Plus this TWAT accused Jamie of cheating on Claire with her hosebeast arse. With the short season, I don't know if they've written that in or if they'll just skip over it.

[Haleth]

Do we know Claire has an addiction?  Yes, her self medicating at the end is worrisome but she could very well realize it’s a problem in the next episode. I’m just thinking with limited storytelling space this season, why would the writers insert an unnecessary extra plot?

[Atlanta]

Please don't make Claire an addict. 

Ugh. Malva and Allen. Tom Christie is actually a good guy and hopefully if they stay closer to the books, we'll get to see that. 

[Haleth]

For anyone who has read the latest book:

Spoiler

Did you get sad when Amy was introduced? 😢

 

Edited March 7, 2022 by Haleth

[SassAndSnacks]

44 minutes ago, Haleth said:

For anyone who has read the latest book:

Yes.  It was jarring, as the content in Bees is still pretty fresh.  I'm glad she'll be included, though.

[WatchrTina]

On 3/7/2022 at 9:00 AM, SassAndSnacks said:

I hate the decision to make her an addict.

Well I don't think they've suggested she is an addict, only that she is abusing the substance -- using it for a purpose for which it was not intended.  I don't think people can become addicted to ether in this century in the same way that people became addicted to things like opium because ether knocks you unconscious.  Its effects are strictly short term and there is no way to function under the influence of ether.  Opium addicts, on the other hand COULD function -- albeit in an impaired manner -- while under the influence of opium.  (One example I can think of from a recent television show is the way Alma Garret was depicted in the TV show "Deadwood.")  Furthermore, opium addicts suffered withdrawal symptoms if they stopped using opium and I don't think we seen any suggestion that ether has that effect.  

But . . . my argument above may be splitting hairs.  Michael Jackson became dependent on using an anesthetic in order to sleep and he died as a result of that very risky practice, right?  And here's Claire administering an anesthetic with no one there to monitor her vital statistics or to ensure the mask falls off her face once she goes unconscious so . . . is she addicted or just abusing the substance?  Eh, maybe it doesn't matter.  I agree with SassAndSnacks. I'm sorry this plot line was added to the story.  Claire is smarter than that.

 

On 3/7/2022 at 6:06 AM, Haleth said:

 

On 3/6/2022 at 9:39 PM, Jodithgrace said:

Who was Christie at Ardsmuire?

As I recall he was chosen by the commander at the prison as spokesman for the prisoners.  He was supposed to keep the prisoners in line.  Then Jamie showed up and proved to be someone the prisoners admired and would follow and ended up taking Tom's place.

The other thing about Christie is the Masonic connection.  Too much time has passed now for me to recalled the chain of events (i.e., who was a Mason first) but what I DO recall is that one of the tactics Jamie employed for bringing about harmony at the prison was to to form a Masonic lodge within the confines of the prison and to induct EVERYONE into the lodge.  It was a good idea and it worked.  The conflicts between Catholic and Protestant prisoners were greatly diminished because religion was (and probably still is) a forbidden topic between lodge brothers. (I think politics is also a forbidden topic.)  But one of the consequences of the Ardsmuir "lodge" was that it created a "brotherly" obligation between Jamie and Christie.

That being said, my recollection is that Book!Christie arrives at the Ridge while Jamie is traveling and Roger is in charge and Roger -- not knowing about Jamie's complicated history with Christie -- welcomes him with open arms.  Had Book!Jamie been home when Christie arrived Jamie might have been able to think of a better alternative.  He might have found a diplomatic way to encourage Christie to settle elsewhere and even given Christie some aid in getting there.  But by the time Jamie learns of Christie's arrival (in the book, if I'm recalling this correctly) Christie has already invested a fair amount of time in building his home.  That's not really the case in the show.  Christie has only recently arrived when TV!Jamie first encounters him but Jamie seems to feel his hands are tied regardless.

The OTHER thing that I think I recall from the book (which I think is also suggested in the episode) is that Jamie did not want to make a big deal of his dismay at finding Christie on his land because to do so would make Roger look bad to the other settlers.  Jamie was eager for Roger to be respected by the settlers and for them to view him as a leader who was Jamie's natural second-in-command -- a true "son of my house."  So he could not countermand one of the few decisions that Roger had made on Jamie's behalf.

 

Edited March 12, 2022 by WatchrTina

[aemom]

3 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

That being said, my recollection is that Book!Christie arrives at the Ridge while Jamie is traveling and Roger is in charge and Roger -- not knowing about Jamie's complicated history with Christie -- welcomes him with open arms.  Had Book!Jamie been home when Christie arrived Jamie might have been able to think of a better alternative.  He might have found a diplomatic way to encourage Christie to settle elsewhere and even given Christie some aid in getting there.  But by the time Jamie learns of Christie's arrival (in the book, if I'm recalling this correctly) Christie has already invested a fair amount of time in building his home.  That's not really the case in the show.  Christie has only recently arrived when TV!Jamie first encounters him but Jamie seems to feel his hands are tied regardless.

The OTHER thing that I think I recall from the book (which I think is also suggested in the episode) is that Jamie did not want to make a big deal of his dismay at finding Christie on his land because to do so would make Roger look bad to the other settlers.  Jamie was eager for Roger to respected by the settlers and for them to view him as a leader who was Jamie's natural second-in-command -- a true "son of my house."  So he could not countermand one of the few decisions that Roger had made on Jamie's behalf.

And honestly, there was no reason for Roger to think otherwise.  Christie shows up with the paper promising all of the Ardsmuir brethren an opportunity to settle on Fraser land.  There's no reason for Roger to think that there might be an exception to that.

And then for Jamie to say: "Sorry you can't stay because I hate you," even though they only recently arrived would have had very bad optics for Jamie and raised many eyebrows amongst the townspeople.

Jamie is screwed, can't do a thing about it, and he knows it.

[WatchrTina]

14 minutes ago, aemom said:

And then for Jamie to say: "Sorry you can't stay because I hate you," even though they only recently arrived would have had very bad optics for Jamie and raised many eyebrows amongst the townspeople.

And don't forget the religious issue.  Most of Jamie's settlers were Catholics but his own son-in-law was Protestant and thus Jamie would never want to be seen as prejudiced against Protestants.  So to turn away an Ardsmuir man who just happened to be Protestant might have given the Protestant residents of the Ridge some concerns about how sincere Jamie was in welcoming them.

[Haleth]

A friend and I were trying to remember what happened to Mrs Christie. Anyone?

[SassAndSnacks]

38 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

Book!Christie arrives at the Ridge while Jamie is traveling and Roger is in charge and Roger -- not knowing about Jamie's complicated history with Christie -- welcomes him with open arms.  Had Book!Jamie been home when Christie arrived Jamie might have been able to think of a better alternative.

Christie arrives at the Ridge when Jamie is down recovering from his snakebite (or was it some other ailment?).  They actually move to the Ridge in Fiery Cross.  

39 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

Jamie did not want to make a big deal of his dismay at finding Christie on his land because to do so would make Roger look bad to the other settlers.

Yes.  Book Jamie is far more supportive of Roger than Show Jamie and recognizes Roger's importance as a "Son of the House."  Also, I don't think Christie came with a group of settlers in the book.  Jamie receives word that a group of settlers in is Cross Creek and ready to come to the Ridge.  He sends Christie and Roger to go fetch the "Fisher Folk" because both of them are Protestants.  

48 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

And here's Claire administering an anesthetic with no one there to monitor her vital statistics or to ensure the mask falls off her face once she goes unconscious so . . . is she addicted or just abusing the substance?  Eh, maybe it doesn't matter.

You raised some really good points about what being an addict means.  I hadn't thought of it like that, and it does seem that they are setting it up more as an abuse of the substance and not an addiction.  Still, it seems so out of character for her, as you've said.  Claire does rash things while leading with her heart, but this is more premeditated.  In the Book, she is so adamant about using the ether safely, counting the seconds between drops, having windows open to filter the air, no flames around.  This all feels a little cavalier.

Anyway, I'm trying to divorce myself from the book storyline and I'm willing to see how this plays out with Claire.    

[Noneofyourbusiness]

10 minutes ago, Haleth said:

A friend and I were trying to remember what happened to Mrs Christie. Anyone?

Mona Christie had an affair with Tom's brother Edgar, which resulted in Malva, and later killed Edgar and was sentenced to hang, leaving Allan and Malva in the care of Edgar's wife until Tom got out of Ardsmuir.

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, WatchrTina said:

Had Book!Jamie been home

25 minutes ago, SassAndSnacks said:

Book Jamie

 

'Tis BUIK!😘😜

[ruby24]

I always thought she had way too little reaction to the rape she suffered in the book, so I can understand the show wanting to do something else to show her response to it. I get why they came up with this- at least it's a theme that hasn't been touched on yet on the show. I'm willing to see how they do it.

[Eureka]

2 hours ago, Haleth said:

For anyone who has read the latest book:

  Reveal spoiler

Did you get sad when Amy was introduced? 😢

 

Yes! But I was happy to see it too, if that makes sense. 

[SassAndSnacks]

17 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

'Tis BUIK!

Naturally. My mistake. 😆

[Ziggy]

17 hours ago, snowbryneich said:

I thought all the Christies were excellently cast, with the overly rigid dad and the likable kids.

Yes!  I'm getting close to finishing my Book 6 reread, and I'm so happy with the castings.  Spot on.

[WatchrTina]

Someone on the other board mentioned that Alexander Vlahos, who plays Tom Christie's son Allan, also played the King's bother, Philippe I, Duke of Orleans (a.k.a. "Monsieur") in the TV show "Versailles."  OMG!  I LOVED that show, and the actor who portrayed Philippe was terrific.  This bodes very well for future episodes.

Edited March 9, 2022 by WatchrTina

[GHScorpiosRule]

14 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

Someone on the other board mentioned that Alexander Vlahos, who plays Tom Christie's son Allan, also played the King's bother, Philippe I, Duke of Orleans (a.k.a. "Monsieur") in the TV show "Versailles."  OMG!  I LOVED that show, and the actor who portrayed Philippe was terrific.  This bodes very well for future episodes.

My memory is fuzzy, but we don't see Allan after this buik, aye? I remember (wish I didn't) what happened with the Christies, and I wilna be pleased if this short season is focused on their arses.

[WatchrTina]

Here's a link to the "Inside the Episode" commentary for this ep.

 

 

 

Edited March 9, 2022 by WatchrTina

[GHScorpiosRule]

29 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

Here's a link to the "Inside the Episode" commentary for this ep.

 

 

 

I love that for most of this, it was the actors talking about the episode, instead of Roberts or the writers. More of that, please!

And thanks for posting, since I don’t get this as I subscribed to the app, which is less expensive than the premiums via cable.

[nodorothyparker]

Finally seeing this. The prison flashback to set up the Jamie-Tom relationship was fairly well done for what in the books always feels like an 11th-hour revision to the Ardsmuir story, but the show letting Murtagh live through Arsdmuir also means that I was continually distracted here wondering if the show would address him apparently being just off screen throughout all this or we just weren't supposed to notice.

Tom Christie is an interesting character if not always a particularly likeable one. But I'm not familiar with the actor playing him and frankly at a couple points could only sort of tell him and the head of the Brown gang apart because I know they're two separate book characters. The actors look that similar. Still, I hate hate hate the dour Presbyterian fisher folk from the books who apparently think it's just fine to continually be shitty to the landowning family that took them in and tried to get them settled. I did think the show did an adequate job of clarifying that it was Roger who accepted the Christies and their assorted hangers on into the fold without knowing the backstory and Jamie just decided to grin and go along with it rather than look like a petty ass to a long-ago frenemy or publicly contradict Roger as the son of the house. 

While I'm also not wild about the Fergus is an alcoholic plot, I also realize the plotting for him in the books is rather thin in this stretch and will wait and see what they do with it. Likewise, I know the Claire is playing fast and loose with ether in the house storyline is a rather big change from the books, but it actually makes a certain amount of sense to me that the first time she was probably experimenting and the second time she was being rather reckless after a nightmare following her clearly going into flight mode on seeing the Browns ride up to the house. Unless the show plans to have her gassing herself into unconsciousness several time an episode, I'm having a hard time just yet calling that an addiction as much as being reckless and abusing it as a continuing reaction to her trauma.

 

[GHScorpiosRule]

I’ll admit I’m disappointed the show didn’t use that one sub-sub plot where Fergus declared himself a lawyer or whatever and  was defending Marsali? Or was it Claire? about something. The Buik description of him ripping the allegations to shreds was something I remember laughing over when reading it. Sigh.

As for Murtagh, didn’t they explain that he was sent away fairly early from Ardsmuir? Or was he sent to the Colonies when Jamie got…paroled?

[nodorothyparker]

A lot of funny things from the books never translated to the show. I've been disappointed by a few as well.

The Ardsmuir episode from Season 3 never tells us when Murtagh was taken prisoner after Culloden but I remember thinking from the way it was portrayed that he had to already be there when Jamie arrived at the prison after essentially letting himself be captured. He was part of the line of prisoners being sent for transportation to the Colonies when Jamie was pulled out of line and marched away to what turned out to be Helwater.

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 minute ago, nodorothyparker said:

 

A lot of funny things from the books never translated to the show. I've been disappointed by a few as well.

 

I know! And I can’t recall if this was from this buik or not, but I think it was Jem who  

sang 

Aloute when they were in town for something

that made me smile. 

 

I just don’t want to see Claire running down the hill like a tweeny teenager when Malva makes her accusations. I hope they leave that out or just have Claire just leave the room.

[Swampy]

18 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

A lot of funny things from the books never translated to the show. I've been disappointed by a few as well.

The Ardsmuir episode from Season 3 never tells us when Murtagh was taken prisoner after Culloden but I remember thinking from the way it was portrayed that he had to already be there when Jamie arrived at the prison after essentially letting himself be captured. He was part of the line of prisoners being sent for transportation to the Colonies when Jamie was pulled out of line and marched away to what turned out to be Helwater.

I always assumed, that Murtagh came to Ardsmuir right after Culloden. When Jamie makes the deal to get medical treatment for Murtagh with Lord John in the Ardsmuir-Episode in Season 3 he sais to Lord John "He's been struggeling to survive here, ever since Culloden."