Better Things Season 5 Discussion

[Faceplant]

12 hours ago, Suzn said:

It's so frustrating to watch Sam.  She just dithers around and apparently is incapable of ever directly expressing herself.  Why couldn't she just tell the idiot kid how the line should be said instead of offering more confusing examples of how to do it.  She continually takes shit from people without every making the definitive statement occasionally.

The kid with the bottle was taken from Adlon's own experience directing a child actor (specifically on this show). I remember reading an article about her trying to get a child actor to show how excited he was about a bottle. It was actually just last season. Found the article: https://www.indiewire.com/2020/04/better-things-pamela-adlon-superhuman-filmmaker-season-4-interview-1202223692/

 

[peeayebee]

Great article. Thanks for sharing it.

 

13 hours ago, Suzn said:

It's so frustrating to watch Sam.  She just dithers around and apparently is incapable of ever directly expressing herself.  Why couldn't she just tell the idiot kid how the line should be said instead of offering more confusing examples of how to do it. 

I think many actors do not want directors to tell them exactly how to say their lines, so during this scene I was thinking that Pamela was keeping that in mind. She would not want a director to tell her, "Say it like this..." so she wasn't about to have Sam recite the line to the kid.

 

10 hours ago, aghst said:

So they've had these dogs of how long but they're not housebroken?  Or not let out into the yard or taken for walks?

It's certainly possible that the girls (mainly Duke) are ignoring the signs from the dogs that they need to go out. That's probably one of Sam's duties. Or it's possible that the dogs (or one of them) has aged into regularly pooping in the house -- so, a medical reason.

No surprise that Phil showed up in SF. 

[Suzn]

...

Edited March 29, 2022 by Suzn

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, Faceplant said:

The kid with the bottle was taken from Adlon's own experience directing a child actor (specifically on this show). I remember reading an article about her trying to get a child actor to show how excited he was about a bottle. It was actually just last season. Found the article: https://www.indiewire.com/2020/04/better-things-pamela-adlon-superhuman-filmmaker-season-4-interview-1202223692/

 

Great article. But not surprising the real life scene was the opposite--she was bringing out nuance that was complicated in a small moment and the kid was coming along. 

7 minutes ago, Suzn said:

I still think she could have described what she wanted from the kid without being so oblique.  But I also was writing about how indirect and meandering she expresses herself to everyone about everyone.

But with the kid she wasn't being oblique at all, or even meandering or indirect. She said "You're just telling him some info," then had him exale to blow out his tension and told him to "say it normal" and then finally suggested he "just throw [the line] away like you don't care."  The one thing she was probably avoiding was telling him how he was failing, but kid was just comically bad and probably doing some thing he got from some teacher or coach his mom took him to that got him work in some commercial.

[chocolatine]

I'm not in the TV/movie industry, but I thought Sam did a terrible job directing. A director is supposed to be in charge; Sam is a total pushover who wants to please everyone. I thought the AD was extremely disrespectful to keep calling her "boss lady" and she should have told him, politely but decisively, to cut it out.

So the dogs are either not housebroken, or Sam never asked any of the girls to walk them? Disgraceful. And Max thinks "this mom thing" is so hard after going grocery shopping once. BTW, did anyone catch what Max was doing at the bank? She can't really apply for a loan, can she? She has no credit history and no collateral.

Max had better tell Sam about Duke's vaping.

[circumvent]

This show baffles me. I don't know what the premise is, if there is one. Some shows have a theme and they follow - usually badly - that theme. But there is a theme that links the stories in some way. This show seems to be just someone making a mess while cooking, not able to parent some of the worst children/teens on TV,  cute kids growing up to be awful, entitled children of a terrible parent. The title is spot on, but it should come with a "please" after because PLEASE, let's have better stories and better characters. So far they are pretty much pointless.

Max shouldn't be able to sign anything at a bank. She has no credit, no history, no money to even open an account. It didn't look like a job application either.

So good to not have Frankie in the episode.

What happened to Duke? What a pain in the ass that kid is. On a shallow note, her face bothers me.

The Sam character seems to have been developed to be a caricature but even if this is actually what this is, it is a heavily exaggerated caricature.

[heatherchandler]

On 3/28/2022 at 10:46 PM, Suzn said:

It's so frustrating to watch Sam.  She just dithers around and apparently is incapable of ever directly expressing herself.  Why couldn't she just tell the idiot kid how the line should be said instead of offering more confusing examples of how to do it. 

Like @peeayebee mentioned, a director is never ever supposed to give a line reading.  I don't understand why, but I have heard about this and apparently it is totally disrespectful.  I guess because the actor is an artist, and it is impeding on the art?

It would make sense to just be able to tell the kid, "say it like this.."

 

1 hour ago, circumvent said:

 

What happened to Duke? What a pain in the ass that kid is. On a shallow note, her face bothers me.

 

Me too but I don't know why...  

 

[Suzn]

...

Edited March 31, 2022 by Suzn

[sistermagpie]

In most situations, including this one where she was a director, Sam's a doormat and has no authority, it just seems impossible to apply it to the situation with the kid since he was so cartoonishly bad and said the line the same way every time after saying he understood her direction. If he responds to "say it normal" like that, what possible thing could anyone have described that would make a difference? 

The show has no trouble showing Sam getting herself in trouble by saying the wrong thing, but it's hard to make a case that that kid's line readings were down to her inability to communicate. This was more about the kid being so bad he and his mom thought he was good. 

Edited March 30, 2022 by sistermagpie

[possibilities]

What does a director do, if not give actors direction? 

With the kid, I thought she should suggest he say the line more quietly. She kept trying to feed him emotion and motivation, but clearly the kid lacks any emotional intelligence.

Duke seems depressed. No one notices because Sam's kids are chronically obnoxious, so it's just taken for granted that she'll be a rude, sullen mess.

 

[SunnyBeBe]

It really is a disappointment to see Sam so put upon.  I like Pam, the actress and that’s why I want to watch and enjoy her project.  All I can figure is that for some reason she believes viewers find it amusing and that it’s fun to watch the bratty kids torture her.  The Conners have bratty kids too as do a few other shows, like This Is Us.  I guess it’s the thing right now.  Her kids are the worst though.  

I recall Pam in her previous work and her personality can be a little exasperating, but I feel she overdoes it on this show.  
 

Why does Sam’s mother have a British accent and Sam and her brother do not?  Not even a slight one.  
 

 

Edited April 3, 2022 by SunnyBeBe

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Why does Sam’s mother have a British accent and Sam and her brother do not?  Not even a slight one.  

I think Pamela Adlon's mother is also British. Sam and her brother were born and raised in the US so have American accents.

Edited April 3, 2022 by sistermagpie

[Suzn]

10 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

I think Pamela Adlon's mother is also British. Sam and her brother were born and raised in the US so have American accents.

That's right.  For fans of Pamela Adlon, it would be worthwhile to watch her Finding Your Roots episode.  You should be able to see it on your local PBS site; it's the most recent season 8, episode 4.

[sistermagpie]

6 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

The kid actor reminded me of Sophia Maria, the character on the sitcom that Larry David was shooting in the most recent episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm.

 

That's exactly who I was thinking of too. LOL.

[Lone Wolf]

On 3/31/2022 at 9:08 PM, possibilities said:

What does a director do, if not give actors direction? 
 

This.  The director has the vision for the project and the actors are there to execute it.  They might offer suggestions about their characters, but ultimately it's the director's decision on what they do with them.  There's a reason when an actor's talking about a movie they're going to be in, they'll say "I'll be working for so-and-so."  I heard Julia Roberts say that in an acceptance speech at some awards show.

Episode 6: San Francisco

The kid actor reminded me of Sophia Maria, the character on the sitcom that Larry David was shooting in the most recent episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm.

I can't believe that Sam's kids are so spoiled/oblivious/whatever that no one bothered to pick up dogshit.  In the house.  That's just nasty.

Semi-related: poor little 3-legged Chewy freaks me out a little bit.  God bless him, though. I'm glad he has a good home.

 

Episode 5:  The World Is So Mean Now

I  was totally Team Sam on the photo album.  Forcing her to remember a period of her life that she didn't want to and then arguing with her about it was selfish, not cool, and very typical of Phil and those kids.  I'm glad that for once Sam stood up for herself.

Also liked it when the feng shui guy said that the place on the staircase where the gnome was  was a touchpoint and needed a statue of a person.  They started taking him seriously, then.  Side note, I didn't realize it had just been sitting there when it fell; I thought it was part of the newel post. IRL it wouldn't have lasted a week with all the head rubbing they were giving it.

Edited April 3, 2022 by Lone Wolf

[possibilities]

I was genuinely surprised that Sam had such a big reaction to Max having had an abortion, like it was some huge traumatic tragedy. I understood her being upset that Max didn't tell her, though.

I liked the part of the episode about Frankie's friends.

Duke is in trouble. When will someone notice? Sam's friend noticed she was drinking, but then he didn't follow up. I thought she might have taken pills or something, when we saw her "sleeping" later.

I don't understand why Max is the way she is. Really, all the kids are a mystery to me. I don't know where they get the hostility and why they hate Sam so much. I get that teenagers can be moody and irritable, but this goes way beyond that. And Max drunkenly telling her mother she loves her and crawling all over her grossed me out. I think we were supposed to find it touching, but I didn't.

[sistermagpie]

6 hours ago, possibilities said:

I don't understand why Max is the way she is. Really, all the kids are a mystery to me. I don't know where they get the hostility and why they hate Sam so much. I get that teenagers can be moody and irritable, but this goes way beyond that. And Max drunkenly telling her mother she loves her and crawling all over her grossed me out. I think we were supposed to find it touching, but I didn't.

Yeah, I couldn't help but think that the friend going to the wedding seemed almost more well-adjusted because he faced some conflict in his family. Sometimes it even feels like these girls make up conflicts with Sam in their head just for drama. (I felt like Max was doing that a bit with her abortion as well--that is, trying to insist it made her more adult.) Meanwhile Sam maybe took care of an entire beehive when Frankie wanted to save the world and then lost interest?

Is Duke supposed to be dealing with some psychic issues here as well? When she was standing in the hall I thought she was at the place where they'd put that skull her dad gave them and "feeling" the place the way she claimed she couldn't when they put it down. 

 

[Door County Cherry]

I didn't get how Sam figured out Max had an abortion.  Did anyone pick up on that subtlety about banana sandwiches? 

 

[aghst]

This episode kind of hints at what the “better things” are about this show.

Sam has raised three strong-willed women or women to be.  Do we know why they are strong-willed?  Because they are all dismissive of her, even Duke now.

But when they get drunk enough like Max, they recognize what a glue and backbone she is for this family.

Or it’s a co-dependency.  If and when the girls all leave, Sam is going to have serious Empty Nest syndrome.

Sam doesn’t like the girls ignoring her or being dismissive so she calls a family meeting, demands their phones, so they can interact more.  Honey it isn’t the phones, they ignore you because you’ve been a doormat to them.

We get treated to not only cooking scenes but a shopping for grocery scene.  She loves entertaining people, kind of being a den mother for all the quirky people her daughters and friends know.  That’s kind of a genuine thing, even if she doesn’t know everyone in her home.

But Sam’s so cool and tolerant, doesn’t mind her daughter being a beard, almost everything goes.  Would she put her foot down if she caught Max vaping or drinking?  Have we seen her ever impose rules or boundaries?

13 minutes ago, Door County Cherry said:

I didn't get how Sam figured out Max had an abortion.  Did anyone pick up on that subtlety about banana sandwiches? 

 

Banana sandwiches and cream or something?  Suppose to be a funny way to describe how she got pregnant?

[mom2two]

banana -male part, creme-what comes from the male, add in afterschool special and one could put it together.

[sistermagpie]

43 minutes ago, Door County Cherry said:

I didn't get how Sam figured out Max had an abortion.  Did anyone pick up on that subtlety about banana sandwiches? 

 

 

31 minutes ago, aghst said:

Banana sandwiches and cream or something?  Suppose to be a funny way to describe how she got pregnant?

He mentioned an Afterschool special, so maybe it's a specific reference to the abortion one? I can't remember that one, but a quick google suggests the girl only thinks she's pregnant and has a stomache problem, so maybe the banana sandwiches is a reference to "I Think I'm Having a Baby" and he knows Sam will connect that to a girl being pregnant (even if she wasn't really) because she goes to the clinic etc.

Forgot I did laugh at us now even getting a shopping montage. 

It's weird Sam seems to have 2 daughters now who left school so they could be high schoolers but without the school full-time.

[circumvent]

7 hours ago, possibilities said:

I don't understand why Max is the way she is. Really, all the kids are a mystery to me. I don't know where they get the hostility and why they hate Sam so much. I get that teenagers can be moody and irritable, but this goes way beyond that. And Max drunkenly telling her mother she loves her and crawling all over her grossed me out. I think we were supposed to find it touching, but I didn't.

Couldn't agree more with all that you said here. That's the part that baffles me the most, how the kids can be so antagonistic having Sam as a mom. If anything, she is overindulgent, so the kids should at least pretend to like her, so they can keep getting and doing whatever they want.

The comedy part of the show annoys me. I don't know anyone who shops that way, it is way too much of a caricature of a clumsy person trying to do regular stuff.

 

[aghst]

I did a quick search for articles or interviews and there's not one mention of how poorly the daughters come across.

It's suppose to be real human relationships, optimism and other positive stuff.

So Sam isn't so much a working single mother as she is a friend to her daughters, you know with the ups and downs of all relationships.

One of the few times Sam pushes back is when Frankie says "OK Boomer" and Sam corrects her that she's Gen X.

That's some parenting right there.

[BC4ME]

12 minutes ago, circumvent said:

The comedy part of the show annoys me. I don't know anyone who shops that way, it is way too much of a caricature of a clumsy person trying to do regular stuff.

 

I find these types of scenes exasperating. I hate 14 year old boy, affected Sam. In fact a lot of these scenes this episode were exasperating to me. I get the slice of life, cool party vibes but do we really need to put up with the other stuff for this? And do we really need to put up with how horrible the girls are to Sam to imagine that is the only way that yields creative adults. Because they're sort of trying to shove that narrative down our throats.   

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, BC4ME said:

 And do we really need to put up with how horrible the girls are to Sam to imagine that is the only way that yields creative adults. Because they're sort of trying to shove that narrative down our throats.   

And are they even that creative compared to lots of other kids? They're pretty lazy, despite bursts of excitement where they decide they're artists, and again, lots of people are like that. I'm not judging them for not knowing exactly what they want to do at this age, but there's no hints they're heading anywhere in particular either.

Funny that drunken Max talks about how she'd die if Sam did because well, yeah, because Sam literally supports you. You all really do, literally, need her because you're always falling back on her.

Edited April 5, 2022 by sistermagpie
Typo

[Suzn]

I've pretty much lost patience with Sam and her rude daughters, but since this is the final season, I'll stick it out to the end.  I really don't understand why the girls are so hateful to Sam and then there are inexplicable things like Max's excess expression of so-called-love.  They have no respect for her and she asks them for nothing.  I question the entire point of the show at this point.

[aghst]

There are only 2 episodes left now.

Too late for these daughters to show growth or maturity.

Of if they do it in the last two episodes, it will seem rushed and inauthentic.

[circumvent]

Just now, aghst said:

Too late for these daughters to show growth or maturity.

They could show respect. 

The problem is not that they are teenagers. Teenagers are annoying, I can't stand them, usually. But parents can demand the minimum of respect and parents can take phones away, stop paying for stuff. I recently met a couple of teenagers and I was impressed with how they can have a conversation that is not just grunts and two-word answers. It can be done. Sam is just a bad parent, and the kids are awful  

[Suzn]

31 minutes ago, circumvent said:

They could show respect. 

The problem is not that they are teenagers. Teenagers are annoying, I can't stand them, usually. But parents can demand the minimum of respect and parents can take phones away, stop paying for stuff. I recently met a couple of teenagers and I was impressed with how they can have a conversation that is not just grunts and two-word answers. It can be done. Sam is just a bad parent, and the kids are awful  

ITA.  Sam doesn't demand anything and those spoiled girls are going to go through life with an entitled attitude.  This doesn't do them any favors.

[heatherchandler]

1 hour ago, circumvent said:

They could show respect. 

The problem is not that they are teenagers. Teenagers are annoying, I can't stand them, usually. But parents can demand the minimum of respect and parents can take phones away, stop paying for stuff. I recently met a couple of teenagers and I was impressed with how they can have a conversation that is not just grunts and two-word answers. It can be done. Sam is just a bad parent, and the kids are awful  

I have a teenager, and if he's not letting me know that I embarrass him, or making sure I know what I need to buy for him, he is ignoring me or whining at or about me.  But, I have seen him with literally everyone else, and he is able to have a normal conversation and he's funny and outgoing.. so I think teenagers are just mean jerks to the parents.

Is this really the last season?  And only 2 episodes left?  And 90% of this episode was Sam shopping or cooking?

[peeayebee]

10 hours ago, possibilities said:

I was genuinely surprised that Sam had such a big reaction to Max having had an abortion, like it was some huge traumatic tragedy. I understood her being upset that Max didn't tell her, though.

I haven't had an abortion, but I'm sure it's traumatic for some women. Who knows if Sam has had one and imagined Max going thru the same emotions. But I think Sam's reaction was due to her feeling for Max going thru that without her, without her mom, as well as just not knowing how this experience affected Max. I have to say I'm glad she didn't get made at Rich for not telling her right away.

Thank you people here for kind of explaining that banana sandwich convo. I didn't catch him mentioning an afternoon special, so maybe there was an episode that they both saw and, probably, laughed about together. 

 

Quote

Duke is in trouble. When will someone notice? Sam's friend noticed she was drinking, but then he didn't follow up. I thought she might have taken pills or something, when we saw her "sleeping" later.

Do you mean Rich? He caught her vaping. I love how angry he was with her.

I always enjoy this show. I love how Sam's house is open to everyone, how it's a sanctuary. I know people here are tired of the cooking scenes, but I like them. Sam obviously loves to cook, and I'm always in awe of how much trouble she goes to in order to create a meal (or a drink). She does it for herself and for others. 

I don't know what Duke is going thru, but is it related to the experience in the antique store? I can't quite recall now, but something upsetting happened there.

I thought no cell phones for a week for a little extreme. I'd say pick a day, and then do something together as a family on that day.

[gingerella]

1 hour ago, Suzn said:

I question the entire point of the show at this point.

At this point it all just feels like self indulgent drivel. I'm so over Sam's clumsy schlump persona that can't handle the most basic of tasks, like grocery shopping, without going to the extreme in an attempt at a Laurel & Hardy go food shopping extravaganza. This show is so bad now it's sad. It had good bones at first, but like I said, it's become a self indulgent 'Dear Diary, this is my life' sort of thing and I'm sorry to say Ms. Adlon, but if this IS your life, it's pretty fucking sad.

[circumvent]

2 hours ago, Suzn said:

I question the entire point of the show at this point.

That's my main thing with this show. There is no reason for the stories. I said it before: some shows are really bad but they have a theme. First responders, lawyers, doctors, they diverge and mess up but there is a theme. This one is just a bunch of sad people being rude to each other, saying "I love you" but acting "I don't care a bit about you". All with the obligatory inclusion of everyone but without a purpose either, just inclusion for the sake of inclusion, no back story, not development, nothing. The worst parent of the worst children, lots of friends and a messy house with too much food being cooked and wasted apparently

[aghst]

Maybe Sam's still happy.

Most of the rudeness of her daughters seem to just roll off her back.  She doesn't seem to dwell on them or let them make her miserable.

She either doesn't see the behavior as rude or she doesn't care.  She doesn't see herself as a doormat?

That's why things are better, the ones you love can repeatedly dump on you but you're oblivious or you don't care?

Suppose to be kind of a zen state of bliss?

 

 

 

[Soobs]

I remember reading that the title Better Things is from the Kinks song.

[aghst]

4 minutes ago, Soobs said:

I remember reading that the title Better Things is from the Kinks song.

That's assuming they had a good idea of how the title related to the episodes and plots from the beginning.

Maybe they did but they long ago gave up on trying to make the title make sense.

Things could be a lot worse but they could also be better.

Or maybe Sam thinks things are great.  She seemed to prefer that her daughters go to college, particularly Frankie, whom she thinks is brilliant.

Lot of parents would be unable to let this go, would continually bother them.  But Sam registered her opinion and then never said anything more about it.

The girls get annoyed as if she needles them or she makes unreasonable demands of them.  They don't know how easy-going and undemanding their mother is.

[ichbin]

8 hours ago, aghst said:

8 hours ago, Door County Cherry said:

I didn't get how Sam figured out Max had an abortion.  Did anyone pick up on that subtlety about banana sandwiches? 

 

Banana sandwiches and cream or something?  Suppose to be a funny way to describe how she got pregnant?

It was banana and mayonnaise sandwich.  I took that as a reference to pregnant women craving odd foods or combinations.

6 hours ago, aghst said:

There are only 2 episodes left now.

Too late for these daughters to show growth or maturity.

Of if they do it in the last two episodes, it will seem rushed and inauthentic.

Nothing much has changed since the beginning.  Sam is a hard-working, quirky, schlub.  Her mother is a pain in the ass and her girls all privileged, indulged and self-absorbed.  It has been like this since the first episode.  Doubt it will change before the end.

[chocolatine]

Isn't Sam at least a little bit concerned about her daughters' lack of self-sufficiency and future prospects? Max is in her 20s, a college dropout, lives with Sam, and doesn't have a job that we know of. Frankie is 18, never even attempted college, and works at a grocery store for what I assume is minimum wage (i.e. not enough to live on in LA). Not once during the five seasons have we seen Sam have a conversation with either daughter about their plans for supporting themselves. Now that Max and Frankie are not precocious kids anymore, they're just losers. And, unless Sam completely changes the way she parents Duke, all three of her kids will be losers.

[aghst]

Maybe in the finale, Phil will leave them a ton of money, problem solved!

They will be independently wealthy and free to pursue whatever their brilliant minds want to pursue.

[txhorns79]

9 hours ago, gingerella said:

I'm so over Sam's clumsy schlump persona that can't handle the most basic of tasks, like grocery shopping, without going to the extreme in an attempt at a Laurel & Hardy go food shopping extravaganza.

The grocery shopping just dragged on and on.  It was like someone realized the episode clocked in short, so they just randomly sent Sam to a Korean grocery store to vamp until the time was filled.

[sistermagpie]

2 hours ago, aghst said:

Maybe in the finale, Phil will leave them a ton of money, problem solved!

They will be independently wealthy and free to pursue whatever their brilliant minds want to pursue.

That made me afraid the show will end with some kind of flashforward. 

[justmehere]

11 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

I have a teenager, and if he's not letting me know that I embarrass him, or making sure I know what I need to buy for him, he is ignoring me or whining at or about me.  But, I have seen him with literally everyone else, and he is able to have a normal conversation and he's funny and outgoing.. so I think teenagers are just mean jerks to the parents.

I think the portrayals of the daughters are extreme, but there is a true thing about kids being great around friends and others yet terrible to their parents, in part because it's "safe" to let everything out with them. They don't have to put on a front or pretend. With teens, too, there's the element of testing their independence, another longer version of terrible twos but with greater vocabulary. They do generally become human again... Max seems to have lightened a bit since she had to be responsible while Sam was away. (I could have done with a shorter version of the drunken emoting though.) And Sam has finally begun to call them out on some things, which is good.  

Pamela Adlon is doing a podcast for this last season - I haven't listened yet, but I'm kind of interested to hear her point of view on these girls. Or maybe it's an L.A. thing and they're considered normal? 

[Bluesky]

On 3/14/2022 at 10:44 AM, SunnyBeBe said:

 

Sam opens the door to the guy picking up the cell phone without even checking to see who’s there.  Who does that?  
 

I do. I think that’s pretty common.   
 

The thing about the daughters’ rudeness that’s hard to understand is why?   Why are they so rude and miserable?

[Faceplant]

7 hours ago, Bluesky said:

The thing about the daughters’ rudeness that’s hard to understand is why?   Why are they so rude and miserable?

https://decider.com/2019/04/19/better-things-children/

 

This article is a couple of years old, but it's does a pretty good job explaining how awful the girls are on this show. Here's a quote that sums up some of the complaints:

 

The difference is that, on our way to becoming decent adults, most of our parents told us to quit being such little shits and shamed us out of our worst offenses; the Fox kids virtually never are — and given how autobiographical the show is, it’s hard not to wonder if Sam is performing events inspired by real life in order to shame Adlon’s real-life children into giving her less material.

[aghst]

It's not just the behavior but the plaintive or whining tone they have, especially the oldest one.

The actresses must have been given direction to talk like that.

And make the viewers hate them.

[sistermagpie]

I just listened to a podcast where all the people adored the show and what surprised me wasn't that, but that they wanted Sam's life (and not just that house). Like one person who wanted to have children one day thought this show was exactly what to watch to confirm how great it would be. There was just one reference to how they shouldn't talk back quite as rudely as they do, but they also seemed to think that this season was showing them realizing how much they loved Sam. Like they thought it was great development and learning when Max had to be at home with another teenager for a few days and went grocery shopping--that showed her how it wasn't as easy as it looked.

I'm not a hate-watcher of the show at all, but I was still surprised to hear people be able to talk about it as quite so "bohemian-adjacent" aspirational. 

[Faceplant]

30 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

I just listened to a podcast where all the people adored the show and what surprised me wasn't that, but that they wanted Sam's life (and not just that house). Like one person who wanted to have children one day thought this show was exactly what to watch to confirm how great it would be. There was just one reference to how they shouldn't talk back quite as rudely as they do, but they also seemed to think that this season was showing them realizing how much they loved Sam. Like they thought it was great development and learning when Max had to be at home with another teenager for a few days and went grocery shopping--that showed her how it wasn't as easy as it looked.

I'm not a hate-watcher of the show at all, but I was still surprised to hear people be able to talk about it as quite so "bohemian-adjacent" aspirational. 

I'm surprised by how much praise this show gets and how aspirational they find Sam as a parent. Why?

 

The question for me becomes, are Sam’s daughters just obnoxious teenagers or are they devil spawn whose sociopathy is never acknowledged by their own mom? Most scenes with the girls – and Sam’s willingness to silently put up with whatever bullshit they whine about - makes Sam seem less like the regular every mom and more a victim of her own making, a doormat. We’re supposed to relate to Sam’s willingness to give until she’s got nothing left, but that’s hard. You just want to yell at her, set some boundaries! It won’t traumatize your kids if you make them clean up after a party or pay rent!

[Suzn]

16 minutes ago, Faceplant said:

It won’t traumatize your kids if you make them clean up after a party or pay rent!

It actually would be doing them a favor.  It's better they find out the world is not there to indulge them.  Sam has raised them to think they are entitled to have everything they want handed to them.

[SoMuchTV]

2 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

I just listened to a podcast where all the people adored the show and what surprised me wasn't that, but that they wanted Sam's life (and not just that house). Like one person who wanted to have children one day thought this show was exactly what to watch to confirm how great it would be. There was just one reference to how they shouldn't talk back quite as rudely as they do, but they also seemed to think that this season was showing them realizing how much they loved Sam. Like they thought it was great development and learning when Max had to be at home with another teenager for a few days and went grocery shopping--that showed her how it wasn't as easy as it looked.

I'm not a hate-watcher of the show at all, but I was still surprised to hear people be able to talk about it as quite so "bohemian-adjacent" aspirational. 

I think I heard the same thing - Pop Culture Happy Hour, right?  I've gotten some great recommendations from that show.  I had the same reaction - I was surprised at the unanimous outpouring of love for this show. 

My daughter came by as I was watching the end of the most recent episode and asked what it was. I wasn't quite sure how to describe it.  "It's this odd little show where pretty much everyone is unlikable, but I'm still watching.  The seasons are short and there's only a few episodes left."  Yeah, not hate-watching, exactly.  I think I'm still waiting for the better things...

[sistermagpie]

58 minutes ago, SoMuchTV said:

I think I heard the same thing - Pop Culture Happy Hour, right?  I've gotten some great recommendations from that show.  I had the same reaction - I was surprised at the unanimous outpouring of love for this show. 

 

That's the one! Who they were seeing when watching this show was just so different. 

Like even when they said how Max had a "crisis" that was playing out over the season and it took me a minute to realize what they meant.