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SATC vs AJLT: Compare & Contrast….what were they thinking?


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On 1/29/2022 at 5:19 PM, ifionlyknew said:

Contrast that breakup with the Miranda and Steve breakup.......and well you know.

I think in time, Trey would have accepted a baby from another country.  It was Bunny that didn’t want one because of the very proud McDougle name.

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6 hours ago, kristen111 said:

I think in time, Trey would have accepted a baby from another country.  It was Bunny that didn’t want one because of the very proud McDougle name.

While Charlotte's second marriage has made her far happier than her first marriage ever could have, it is interesting to contemplate an alternate universe in which Bunny dropped dead of a heart attack shortly after Trey and Charlotte's wedding. They might have been able to make things work enough to stay married.

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44 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I don't think so.  Trey never resolved his sexual issues and the conclusion was that he couldn't find Charlotte sexual because he just straight up didn't want to get married.

I think the point is that Trey's mommy issues were interfering with his feelings for Charlotte and that's why he had issues with marriage and trouble being sexual with her.  Take Bunny out of the equation and he may have been able to get over some of that.

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Yes. To be clear, I don't think it would have been a particularly happy marriage, but it's not uncommon for people who aren't particularly happy together to still stay together, for a variety of reasons. If Charlotte and Trey had gone through with the adoption, in particular, which as kristen111 said was really Bunny's problem, I think at that point Charlotte would have been extremely reluctant to divorce.

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Sometimes when a man (even an adult man) that's overly attached to his mother loses her, he seeks to "replace" her in a spouse so Charlotte may have actually benefitted from that.  So it may not have been as unhappy a marriage as all that, but who knows?  It's all speculation at best.

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On 1/21/2023 at 2:20 PM, kristen111 said:

I think in time, Trey would have accepted a baby from another country.  It was Bunny that didn’t want one because of the very proud McDougle name.

I don’t think so. I don’t think Trey really wanted to be a parent OR a husband, and adoption is a lot of work (administrative and emotional). I don’t think Trey would’ve gone to the interviews or done any of the things that would’ve been required of them. He may have denied it, or pinned it on work, but that would’ve been years of stringing Charlotte along and that wouldn’t have been right. I do give Trey credit for telling her pretty quickly he wasn’t interested in adoption or pursuing IVF. 

Edited to Add- assuming Nya and Andre are back for season 2, I would like them to have an honest discussion about this. If Nya does not want to pursue more IVF or adoption, what does that mean for their relationship? If Andre and Nya think it's best to split,  I would love Nya with Steve. Which would be comical, I wonder how Miranda would take it?
 

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On 2/2/2022 at 8:44 AM, ifionlyknew said:

I'm on the record as saying I never bought into Miranda suddenly realizing Steve was the right man for her.  If not for Brady they never would have gotten married.  And it would have been realistic after him cheating on her in the first movie for her to say I forgive you but I think we should move on from each other. But the writers had her realize once again Steve is who she wanted to spend the rest of her life with.

Fast forward to now and the writers are telling us eh you know what?  Miranda was never happy with Steve.  What viewers saw doesn't exist anymore.  Miranda needs liberated and Che is just the persons to do it. 

I think I might be a little more forgiving of the writers if some of them weren't the same writers who wrote the original Miranda and Steve story.  

I am not a Steve fan. Never have been.  But in this story I am on his side.  Although I would have more respect for him if he let Miranda go.  Steve honey she just ain't worth it.  

I had a problem with them trying to make an obviously vibrant and fit man look like an old doddering fool to justify Miranda's infidelity. 

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On 1/31/2022 at 3:40 PM, T Summer said:

Yeah, F' that narrative whatever the genesis is! She's beautiful, in great shape, has a very prestigious job: Columbia law Professor, higher earnings than most (like 2-3 x) and in addition to letting her husband pursue his dream, here's another consideration: who do we think has more job related stress and demands on their time after hours? He should be very happy  and consider himself lucky to have HER!

Thank you for saying this.

I am not talking about this board but I am sick of high-achieving women having to apologize for their life choices.

I would be like, "Okay, Andre, we are in the only developed nation in the world with no paid maternity or paternity leave. Can you hold us down financially for a couple of years while I focus on the baby?" 

Or 

"Andre, can you stop touring for a couple of years so you can be the baby's main caretaker while I support the family?"

If Andre is not willing to sacrifice any of his time or career opportunities for a baby that HE wanted then why should his wife be forced to do the same things?

Edited by qtpye
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On 9/1/2022 at 9:19 AM, chenoa333 said:

I have often wondered if SJP was a hard core smoker in real life. Thus, the realistic ability to smoke in SATC. Buf i didn't notice Carrie smoking again after Big died. I haven't found AJLT to be Just That Interesting so it makes sense that I missed the whole "Carrie smoking" thing. Thanks for the info Luna!

Years ago on Larry King Live she was asked about smoking and said her lawyer told her not to answer any questions about it. 
During the original SATC run, I saw her smoking outside a theatre with Matthew during intermission. I was more surprised to see how they blended in with everyone else than the actual smoking. She’s tiny in person. 

 

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I tried.  I fast forwarded through the multiple opening sex scenes because, well.......  Then I started watching and realized I don't care.  It's not Che, character development, or character de-development.  It's not the absence of Samantha.  I just don't care.  They are old now.  Not as old as me, but old, and I just don't care.

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Responding to @Yeah No from the Media Thread:

 

Of course we all come to this show with our own experiences, and I can see how after having your experiences that interpretation makes sense but I didn’t see Aidan this way. I saw Aidan as wanting to SHARE his interests with Carrie (and she with him). He wanted her to come to the cabin because it meant a lot to him, and eventually they came to an agreement where they spent x amount of time at the cabin and x amount in the city. He had no problem with her going out with her friends he just didn’t want to go all the time.

 

I can agree with you that Aidan had an expectation that if he was a “good man” Carrie would love him the way he wanted to be loved and he was very upset that she didn’t, as evidenced by her continuing to see Big behind his back, bringing Big to the cabin and expecting Aidan to be okay with it. He constantly pulled the “do you love me yet?” Card we see a lot of women pull; if they do xyz they will be loved. I give Aiden more slack than Carrie because I do believe he was genuine in his intentions towards her and Carrie lead him on ASKING him to get back together. 

I also think Carrie wanted to be with him because she wanted to have the emotional upper hand in the relationship, and being with him was pleasant. 
 

Like I give Carrie slack in round 1 with Big, I give Aiden slack in round 1 with Carrie, but during round 2, he should’ve known better. He never should’ve proposed and she certainly shouldn’t have accepted. 

At the end of the day Carrie didn’t want his ass- even though he was a good guy. I’m glad she didn’t go ahead and marry him because he would’ve wanted children and they would’ve ended up divorced 2yrs in!

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22 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Of course we all come to this show with our own experiences, and I can see how after having your experiences that interpretation makes sense but I didn’t see Aidan this way. I saw Aidan as wanting to SHARE his interests with Carrie (and she with him). He wanted her to come to the cabin because it meant a lot to him, and eventually they came to an agreement where they spent x amount of time at the cabin and x amount in the city. He had no problem with her going out with her friends he just didn’t want to go all the time.would’ve ended up divorced 2yrs in!

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree about whether Aidan was manipulative or not, but having had 2 men in my distant past who bore a distinct resemblance to him I feel that I'm very aware of the signs.  Of course he wanted to share his life and interests with her but he fully expected her to reciprocate in kind and in her case it was obvious that this would mean changing herself in ways that completely went against who she is.  She compromised with him but I felt it was clear that she was not comfortable with the arrangement and was only giving into his pressure.  I'm sure he would not have been happy with her and would have put her through hell if she didn't cave to his wishes and put on a country outfit and a happy face while doing it too.  I see him as one of those guys that only loves you if you dance to his tune and if you for one minute decide you're not in the mood or can't keep up the "compromise" you get a ration of shit over it.  I hate to say that a lot of men are like that.  I figure it's ingrained in them to expect this from women after thousands of years of having everything their way.  The thing is, I don't think if she had similar expectations of him that he would do what he expected of her for her.

I am sure that he would have started in on her about why she needs so many shoes, needs to go out to fancy restaurants, clubs, etc. and why isn't she satisfied with being at home with him, etc.  It's in keeping with his personality as shown to go down that road.  He was fundamentally opposed to her lifestyle on principle and it showed in everything he said and did.  Meanwhile, she wasn't opposed to his lifestyle - it just wasn't for her and she wanted a "live and let live" arrangement.  He could be him and she could be her with no pressure to change.  I don't see Aidan as wanting that with Carrie.  It was always going to be about her changing to meet his expectations, not the other way around.  She never put any demands on him to change his lifestyle but he did of her.  I'm really surprised that more people don't see it this way.  

By the way, to tell the truth, it was my HUSBAND that opened my eyes to Aidan.  We watched the show 20+ years ago together and then again a few years ago and it was then that he made me realize why I didn't like Aidan so much.

We were treated to some of Carrie's recent growth in the most recent episode of AJLT where she just can't bring herself to do a pretty frank and direct commercial on vaginal issues.  20 years later she is able to hold true to herself and her boundaries despite a lot of pressure to go against them, but 20 years ago she was still trying to please other people at the expense of herself and who she is.  I don't think she is going to do that in the future and if Aidan is still the way he was 20 years ago she won't regress and try to change herself radically just to please him.  I can see them as friends but no more in that case.  If he has changed, well that would be interesting, but I'm not holding my breath for that.

Edited by Yeah No
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I hope they don't get Carrie back with Aiden again. Let them be friends. They've taken two shots at it;  lets see Carrie with someone new  when she's ready. I didn't find him particularly controlling for not wanting to date a smoker and not wanting her to continue to see an ex who she cheated on him with, I just think they didn't have much chemistry.

Plus I didn't like how he came across in their last encounter in shitty movie #2. Showing photos of his children catching up on how they've both married  and then making a move on Carrie made him come across kind of sleazy in a way I never got from the character in the series.

 

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9 hours ago, T Summer said:

Plus I didn't like how he came across in their last encounter in shitty movie #2. Showing photos of his children catching up on how they've both married  and then making a move on Carrie made him come across kind of sleazy in a way I never got from the character in the series.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that.  I think like most people I've wiped that movie from my memory.  I was flipping channels the other day and landed on it.  I stayed with it for a few minutes and didn't remember any of it.  It was just at the time they went from NY to the scenes in Abu Dhabi.  It reminded me of how the movie went from lukewarm to awful when they went there.

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1 hour ago, Yeah No said:

Oh yeah, I forgot about that.  I think like most people I've wiped that movie from my memory.  I was flipping channels the other day and landed on it.  I stayed with it for a few minutes and didn't remember any of it.  It was just at the time they went from NY to the scenes in Abu Dhabi.  It reminded me of how the movie went from lukewarm to awful when they went there.

Right? And  the internet has been awash with  blurbs and articles  about where Kim Cattrall's animous or simple reluctance to put herself in the hands of those writers and producers for a third movie or other project comes from????🤔😲🙄

She had cause to sue them ALL for attempting to ruin her as an actress! IMO!!

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6 hours ago, Yeah No said:

It was just at the time they went from NY to the scenes in Abu Dhabi.  It reminded me of how the movie went from lukewarm to awful when they went there.

I can watch the second movie up until they go to Abu Dhabi.  Once that plane took off that movie took a nosedive.

16 hours ago, T Summer said:

Plus I didn't like how he came across in their last encounter in shitty movie #2. Showing photos of his children catching up on how they've both married  and then making a move on Carrie made him come across kind of sleazy in a way I never got from the character in the series.

I was never a big fan of Aiden but he was not the type to hit on someone who was married let alone while he was married.  He was still married right?

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3 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

I can watch the second movie up until they go to Abu Dhabi.  Once that plane took off that movie took a nosedive.

That movie was solid proof that the city of New York was just as important to the show's success as the 4 lead cast members were. 

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6 hours ago, Cementhead said:

That movie was solid proof that the city of New York was just as important to the show's success as the 4 lead cast members were. 

For New Yorkers they were stunningly unsophisticated and ignorant. At least Miranda tried to understand and follow the country's customs and LAWS.

And to compare AJLT, the ladies seem more like Movie #2 SATC gals than the original show gals. Which isn't a good thing.

Edited by RedHawk
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9 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

I can watch the second movie up until they go to Abu Dhabi.  Once that plane took off that movie took a nosedive.

I was never a big fan of Aiden but he was not the type to hit on someone who was married let alone while he was married.  He was still married right?

Yes, he was married to another furniture designer with kids.  I think he named 3 boys.

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It’s really hard to reconcile the SATC Miranda who dealt with her mother-in-law’s dementia/stroke with patience and concern with the AJLT Miranda that snapped at Steve for his hearing impairment. And Miranda didn’t even like Steve’s mother!

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7 hours ago, Mrsmaul2021 said:

I just do not understand why they destroyed such a magnificent character like Miranda just to tell a story. A bad story at that. 

Because the ruination of Miranda Hobbes was done with the blessing of Cynthia Nixon.

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14 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Because the ruination of Miranda Hobbes was done with the blessing of Cynthia Nixon.

This is how AJLT is going to be remembered. 

It's not going to be remembered for being "woke". Or being inclusive. Or having a diverse cast.  It will be remembered for showcasing a poorly written story that wasn't created organically but because of Cynthia Nixon's overinflated ego in thinking her story needing to be told took precedence over what was good for the show. 

 

Edited by bluegirl147
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Responding to @Yeah No from the media thread:

 

One thing I always enjoyed and respected more about Charlotte compared to Carrie, is that Charlotte was very honest and self aware about her desire for status and what she wanted out of the heteronormative arrangement. Now when she got it, and it didn’t fulfill her she pivoted, and although she had her regression (her outburst to Harry “set the date”) she genuinely repented and apologized. 

Carrie wanted to be kept but wasn’t emotionally honest about that, and I think it she had been, Big wouldn’t have caused her so much turmoil. 

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25 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Responding to @Yeah No from the media thread:

 

One thing I always enjoyed and respected more about Charlotte compared to Carrie, is that Charlotte was very honest and self aware about her desire for status and what she wanted out of the heteronormative arrangement. Now when she got it, and it didn’t fulfill her she pivoted, and although she had her regression (her outburst to Harry “set the date”) she genuinely repented and apologized. 

Carrie wanted to be kept but wasn’t emotionally honest about that, and I think it she had been, Big wouldn’t have caused her so much turmoil. 

Exactly, and I think a lot of the audience (including me) wanted to buy into Carrie's image of herself as a strong, independent woman living a sexually liberated single life in NYC when in reality she was not living up to that in her relationship with Big. 

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(edited)

SATC would have written Carrie not wanting to read the copy for the vaginal suppositories ("Chapter Three") very differently. First of all Carrie's excuse was so flimsy and not even clear. Why was she embarrassed? The Sex and the City columnist couldn't bring herself to say "vagina"? Oh, wait, it was "suppository" that she couldn't bring herself to say. Did she even grasp what the product was? 

Carrie, Miranda, and Charlotte all seem be past menopause and at least one of them might have the vaginal dryness that can occur after menopause. It's the basis of the "dried up" older woman stereotype and crude comments women face regarding an actual medical issue. I got the impression that the suppositories being advertised were to help the dryness problem.

Here's how I imagine this being handled on SATC: Carrie would have brought up her inability to record the ad at brunch and they would have been clueless (Charlotte), curious (Miranda), and informed (Samantha). They would have discussed Carrie's hesitance and shame and talked about their fears of being seen as "old" and no longer sexually desirable or active. They would have decided that it was nothing to be embarrassed about, and Carrie would be doing her listeners a service by not being afraid to talk about a common medical issue. She would be sharing information with her audience. The gals would have encouraged her to rewrite the copy, and she would have made it lightly funny in a "Carrie" way.

Later we might have seen Charlotte alone in the pharmacy aisle reading a box of the suppositories and then buying it. And finally the episode would have cleverly linked Carrie not being able to read that ad copy with her not being able to read about Big's death in "Chapter Three" of her memoir.

Edited by RedHawk
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1 hour ago, RedHawk said:

The Sex and the City columnist couldn't bring herself to say "vagina"?

LOL I just said much the same thing on the Chapter Three thread following posts about how they don't quite know what story line to give Carrie now. I stated Miss Ican'tsayvagina  could be working on a book about sex or relationships. They seem to have totally forgotten  she used to write a sex column.

 

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3 hours ago, T Summer said:

LOL I just said much the same thing on the Chapter Three thread following posts about how they don't quite know what story line to give Carrie now. I stated Miss Ican'tsayvagina  could be working on a book about sex or relationships. They seem to have totally forgotten  she used to write a sex column.

 

I saw that you and another poster said a variant of that and should have quoted you both. 🙂 It is another example of the writers losing track of Carrie the character. But then she was always a bit prudish, which really did not track with writing the column. Samantha should have written it! 

They also blew it when Thursday Guy suggested "vajayjay" and Carrie didn't come back with "No! People will think I'm a Kardashian!" 

I rewatched the scene where she's given the copy to read. Apparently there's a reference to "vaginal odor". Umm, couldn't she have made a stand against saying "vaginal odor" because women are already worried enough about "down there" so no need to add more fuel to their fears in order to sell a product? I still don't know exactly what she was objecting to, it was so muddled and dumb.

Again I say, a man being the lead writer is not the best thing for this show. Even Thursday Guy's lines were weird and awkward. Came out sounding like "I'm a man, Carrie, I don't know nuthin' 'bout this female stuff!"

Edited by RedHawk
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22 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Exactly, and I think a lot of the audience (including me) wanted to buy into Carrie's image of herself as a strong, independent woman living a sexually liberated single life in NYC when in reality she was not living up to that in her relationship with Big. 

Out of the four women Carrie was the weakest and the least independent.  If it wasn't a man propping her up it was her friends. 

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Gawd, the hack  typists got  me angry this week! SATC did the whole coming to grips with aging and entering a new survey box or age group thing on the episode where Samantha got subbed to Mirabella magazine and  thought she may be entering menopause.

It was also a theme running  through the whole length of the series that Charlotte was the most straight lace and least sexually adventurous of the group playing off Samantha's I'm a trisexual. I'll try anything once attitude.

 

As I watched "Alive"  the SATC episode played in my head where Samantha was speaking frankly about some sex practice and Charlotte seemed to be completely put off to the point of being grossed out. Samantha mentioned another and again got a less than enthusiastic reaction. When she got all the way to receiving oral she looked at Charlotte and asked "you do do that, don't you?" Charlotte gave her a terse: Of course.

How the hell did we get here?

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7 hours ago, qtpye said:

A good take on why the new show is missing the point of SATC.

 

Thank you for posting that, it finds the words I could not when describing this show.  

I am still laughing at the whole RL story line, like they needed a scout to find a bland, lifeless kid for an ad campaign who can jump on a trampoline.  I would have liked it better if RL had scouted Charlotte and she could truly relive her RL youth.

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(edited)
On 7/2/2023 at 3:50 PM, RedHawk said:

SATC would have written Carrie not wanting to read the copy for the vaginal suppositories ("Chapter Three") very differently. First of all Carrie's excuse was so flimsy and not even clear. Why was she embarrassed? The Sex and the City columnist couldn't bring herself to say "vagina"? Oh, wait, it was "suppository" that she couldn't bring herself to say. Did she even grasp what the product was? 

Carrie, Miranda, and Charlotte all seem be past menopause and at least one of them might have the vaginal dryness that can occur after menopause. It's the basis of the "dried up" older woman stereotype and crude comments women face regarding an actual medical issue. I got the impression that the suppositories being advertised were to help the dryness problem.

Here's how I imagine this being handled on SATC: Carrie would have brought up her inability to record the ad at brunch and they would have been clueless (Charlotte), curious (Miranda), and informed (Samantha). They would have discussed Carrie's hesitance and shame and talked about their fears of being seen as "old" and no longer sexually desirable or active. They would have decided that it was nothing to be embarrassed about, and Carrie would be doing her listeners a service by not being afraid to talk about a common medical issue. She would be sharing information with her audience. The gals would have encouraged her to rewrite the copy, and she would have made it lightly funny in a "Carrie" way.

Later we might have seen Charlotte alone in the pharmacy aisle reading a box of the suppositories and then buying it. And finally the episode would have cleverly linked Carrie not being able to read that ad copy with her not being able to read about Big's death in "Chapter Three" of her memoir.

I agree with this in principle, except: when she read the copy at first, there was a reference to “vaginal odor,” and later, there was a reference to “balancing the ph.”  Both of which are total BS.  (Basically, PSA:  The smell of your vagina is not offensive and needs no treatment.  If there is an odor, you may have an infection and you need to go to the doctor.  As for the PH, the vagina balances that by itself.  If you mess with it, that could actually throw it out of balance.  One of the accomplishments of the often inexplicably maligned second-wave feminism of the 1970’s was to reduce the stigma attached to merely having a vagina, and inform women about their bodies so they didn’t buy these types of products, which had been marketed routinely to women before that.  It seems we are going backwards.).  THAT should’ve been the reason Carrie, as a wise person and sex columnist who was alive during the 1970’s, objected to the commercial.  The product was BS.   (Dryness was mentioned, but later and in addition to the other stuff).  I’m not sure the writers even understood what this product was for, and it definitely did not give me the impression it was for menopause-related issues or any real health problem.

Edited by Rebecca berkowit
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1 hour ago, Rebecca berkowit said:

I agree with this in principle, except: when she read the copy at first, there was a reference to “vaginal odor,” and later, there was a reference to “balancing the ph.”  Both of which are total BS.  (Basically, PSA:  The smell of your vagina is not offensive and needs no treatment.  If there is an odor, you may have an infection and you need to go to the doctor.  As for the PH, the vagina balances that by itself.  If you mess with it, that could actually throw it out of balance.  One of the accomplishments of the often inexplicably maligned second-wave feminism of the 1970’s was to reduce the stigma attached to merely having a vagina, and inform women about their bodies so they didn’t buy these types of products, which had been marketed routinely to women before that.  It seems we are going backwards.).  THAT should’ve been the reason Carrie, as a wise person and sex columnist who was alive during the 1970’s, objected to the commercial.  The product was BS.   (Dryness was mentioned, but later and in addition to the other stuff).  I’m not sure the writers even understood what this product was for, and it definitely did not give me the impression it was for menopause-related issues or any real health problem.

Thank you! You pointed out the other "issue" the suppository seemed to be for and I agree that most of us (I hope) have learned that we don't need those products or to constantly worry about "odor".

I did think they were mixing up two separate issues due as usual to unclear writing, and I was annoyed. As you say, Carrie could have said, "NUN UH, I'm not selling some new version of 'you smell bad down there so here's a product to fix it' when it actually will mess you up. I know this is not a good thing to use." But instead they went with her not being able to say certain words, so whatever, I just throw up my hands at this crap.

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On 7/18/2023 at 12:00 AM, qtpye said:

A good take on why the new show is missing the point of SATC.

 

 

 

She summed it up in one line, it deviates heavily from the original. That is the overall problem for me. These are not the same characters we watched for 6 seasons and TWO MOVIES. 

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I’ve been rewatching the first two seasons and just finds it funny how now we’re supposed to praise Charlotte for being such a good dog mom to Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton when she GAVE UP Henry, the first dog she had in the show, to Susan Sharon, because it was being too yippy/annoying?

Also, I know that a lot of us complained about them at the time but it is *remarkable* how essential Carrie’s voice-overs are to provide an overarching plot/theme/structure to the episodes.  AJLT always seems to being going in a dozen different directions, with a dozen different characters, and I feel like SATC handled the very structure of each episode better.
 

If SATC were a drama, it would get praised for how well it balanced on-going plotlines with episodes-of-the-week plotlines.  Now it feels like everyone is spinning multiple plates in the air, some of them crashing to the floor (cough, cough, Che and Miranda, cough) and then pretending like the plates have never been broken and picking them up again to spin them again.

Also:  sorry, but SJP and Noth have the best chemistry of any of her love interests.  He may be a jerk but their lovey banter (and even their fights!) seems completely off-the-cuff and natural, which is what you want in a rom-com, right?   
 

I suppose one could make a *technical* argument against any of the guys the ladies ended up with in the series finale but I think all of the pairings (Sam/Smith, Carrie/Big, Char/Harry, Miranda/Steve) made sense because the pairings had such chemistry between the actors.

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