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Scarlett45

SATC vs AJLT: Compare & Contrast….what were they thinking?

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3 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I think if Charlotte had hit 40-42 and wasn’t partnered she may have adopted as a single woman. I could also see her marrying and older guy with kids and being THE BEST STEP MOM ever. When she and Trey divorced she was ONLY 34 (felt old for her but not that old). Nya and Andre are in their late 30s/early 40s? (Karen Pittman- Nya, is only 35, she just has a mature face). 

I thought the 35 was an error to be honest. When I first looked up Karen's age, I saw it listed at 50 and thought that was her correct age. She's a beautiful woman with beautiful skin, but she looks much more mature than my mid30s friends. I actually thought the Nya character must be younger than Karen. 

4 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

She told Harry about her issues immediately and got that out on the table before they got serious. And I think if someone goes through the trouble of the financial/emotional work of adopting a child from another ethnic group- they actually WANT to be parents.** It’s not about their “super special DNA”, it’s not about “image”, it’s about getting to love and nurture a child who doesn’t have a home. 

With Nya and Andre it’s different- they’ve been together a long time, from what I gather they agreed on no kids at first, and Nya went through TWO rounds of IVF for him (again that was physical work for her, he got to masturbate). I think if Andre isn’t happy with no kids he has every right to leave just like Trey did, but my heart will break for Nya more than it did for Charlotte in the same situation for the reasons I stayed up thread.

Side note- I think a lot of hetero women value motherhood a lot more than being partnered with a man. From what I have seen, the man is a way to give them the child(ren) they want and get these children raised (assisting in the financial, physical and emotional work of raising the children). How many hetero women seem to have no more interest in men when their children are grown? Again- there’s nothing wrong with that, but I think it’s something people aren’t very transparent about. 

Exactly. It's why I find adoption particularly beautiful.

I totally understand your points about the differences in the fertility struggles.

Agree there too. For me, relationships don't always work out. People fall out of love, cheat, etc. For the most part, you'll always have your kids to love on. 

1 hour ago, TooMuchRealityTV said:

I wish the show had been more clear about Nya's age. I was assuming she was in her early to mid 40s. They stopped doing IVF, but still tried on their own a few episodes ago. That seemed like a hint that she was younger than Miranda. (Yes, some women do get pregnant doing IVF at 50, but it usually takes donor eggs. Very, very unlikely to happen on their own.)

If they are 35-ish and Andre seems to have changed his mind and now wants kids. That would not be all that unusual in my opinion. He may be ready to settle down and have a family. It happens. I don't think 35 is an unusual age for that change to happen. Some people focus on their careers or relationships when they are younger, and only think about kids as they approach 40.

It also happens that some people just aren't all that interested in having kids. It's not something that will ever change. And that's more than okay as well.

I don't see these two as compatible anymore. It's unfortunate.

True. I wasn't the girl who grew up dreaming of motherhood. I dealt with anxiety and just wanted to be a normal person and experience the excitement of single life a la SATC. It wasn't until most of my friends married and had kids, and for the first time in my life I'd see more and more people dying I thought, oh boy. Someday my parents won't be here. I have hardly any family. Most of my friends are busy. Maybe I should get married and have a family after all. I will be an older parent if I ever become one, but I would draw the line at a certain point. I'd want to make sure I'd be there for the kid(s) and not die on them young. 

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@RealHousewife I too thought Karen looked older than 35, so it may have been a typo. 

50 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

Agree there too. For me, relationships don't always work out. People fall out of love, cheat, etc. For the most part, you'll always have your kids to love on. 

Totally agree. I think Charlotte as a character wanted both in an honest way. I think Nya as a character wanted Andre as a husband, and was maybe open to the idea of kids. IVF isn’t fun, and there’s a much bigger stigma about it in the Black community (I have a friend going through it now as a single woman at 41, she is pregnant and they saw a heartbeat so let’s see if there is a baby in September!). 
 

I think the way this storyline is going they will break up, and maybe hopefully Nya can heal and get with Steve like people suggested in the episode thread. I thought the writers of SATC were very brave to break Charlotte & Trey up, because it takes courage to say “goodbye” to the life you thought you were going to have with the person. 

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6 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

 

 

I think the way this storyline is going they will break up, and maybe hopefully Nya can heal and get with Steve like people suggested in the episode thread. I thought the writers of SATC were very brave to break Charlotte & Trey up, because it takes courage to say “goodbye” to the life you thought you were going to have with the person. 

Contrast that breakup with the Miranda and Steve breakup.......and well you know.

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5 hours ago, ifionlyknew said:

Contrast that breakup with the Miranda and Steve breakup.......and well you know.

Ugh I know! I would’ve preferred them to have kept Miranda and Steve broken up, but stayed friends and parents to Brady. That does happen, people often raise children together much more easily if they don’t try to be a couple.

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Was it mentioned what Andre does for a living? Did I imagine him being a musician?

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11 hours ago, T Summer said:

Was it mentioned what Andre does for a living? Did I imagine him being a musician?

Nya said that if someone had put a baby in his guitar case he wouldn't even have noticed the baby. So it seems like he's been very dedicated to a music career.

Edited by RedHawk
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On 1/27/2022 at 11:31 PM, Scarlett45 said:

@luna1122 and @Ms Blue Jay brought up that Nya is the Trey, and Andre is the Charlotte in “pursuing parenthood”. 
 

I never thought Trey was weird or selfish. Of course Charlotte was our main character and we were to sympathize with her, but she never lashed out at Trey or anything like that. All she said was that she didn’t feel she should have to give her dream of motherhood up (somewhat like Andre did).
 

Andre and Nya have been married a lot longer though which might change the dynamic between them. In the original series we had Samantha and Carrie be childfree, with Carrie being partnered and Samantha single. Seema is now our never  partnered, childfree character (which I dig), and I selfishly want childfree black people on my screen. 
 

I just feel bad for Nya in a way I did not feel for Trey. 

I think Nya and Trey are similar in that I think both of them might be tired of trying…in part because of the emotional toll it begins to take on their relationship. Charlotte was more demanding than Andre —I still feel like his name should be Tony but whatevs — whereas Andre has up until last episode just seemed down to keep trying.

On 1/28/2022 at 10:20 AM, Scarlett45 said:

I agree, they do not feel integrated. I like them, but its like I am watching a different show.

Perhaps I feel badly for Nya in a way I didn't feel for Trey because 1. the biological and social reality is that having children is a much greater investment for women than men (Nya was the one that went through the physical trials of IVF, Andre got to masturbate), and even if they adopt, socially child raising/care is still primarily a woman's responsibility, and 2. being a black female childfree lawyer myself, who is heterosexual (but not partnered or looking to partner) I can identify with Nya on a personal level.

I guess a part of me thought that even though Trey was disappointed the marriage didn't work out, he would be just fine emotionally at the end of the day (Charlotte I wasn't sure about), but life and statistics being what they are, if Nya and Andre break up because they cannot come to terms on this, Andre will be fine- he will meet a woman and have kids with her (either bio or adopted or using a sperm donor- I am not assuming their problems concevieing are due to Nya), but Nya is going to be BROKEN HEARTED. Again, for the record, I am not insinuating Andre is a bad person or a bad husband for wanting to be a father, but gosh darn it I feel for Nya here.

 

23 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Quoting @RedHawk from the episode thread:

I disagree with this. As I said before, I never thought Trey was “bad guy”, but when he and Charlotte got married parenthood was something they both wanted. Trey had every right to change his mind (especially when it wasn’t simply going to be “have sex, ~40 weeks later baby”) but I really think Charlotte’s desire for children/motherhood was genuine. And she and Trey both wanted this when they got married, it’s good Trey was as honest with her as he was, because I could’ve seen him being cowardly and stringing her along another 5yrs with her hoping every month to be pregnant. 
 

She told Harry about her issues immediately and got that out on the table before they got serious. And I think if someone goes through the trouble of the financial/emotional work of adopting a child from another ethnic group- they actually WANT to be parents.** It’s not about their “super special DNA”, it’s not about “image”, it’s about getting to love and nurture a child who doesn’t have a home. 

With Nya and Andre it’s different- they’ve been together a long time, from what I gather they agreed on no kids at first, and Nya went through TWO rounds of IVF for him (again that was physical work for her, he got to masturbate). I think if Andre isn’t happy with no kids he has every right to leave just like Trey did, but my heart will break for Nya more than it did for Charlotte in the same situation for the reasons I stayed up thread.

Side note- I think a lot of hetero women value motherhood a lot more than being partnered with a man. From what I have seen, the man is a way to give them the child(ren) they want and get these children raised (assisting in the financial, physical and emotional work of raising the children). How many hetero women seem to have no more interest in men when their children are grown? Again- there’s nothing wrong with that, but I think it’s something people aren’t very transparent about. 
 

**of course there are evil twisted people out there, I’m talking about “regular people”. 

I agree with what you’re saying in these posts, but I think there’s an aspect of Nya — again, mirroring Charlotte — that the show hasn’t explored.

I think I floated this theory a few episodes ago, but maybe part of the problem is Nya is doing too much. She’s a professor, I wouldn’t be surprised if she’s working on some type of scholarly work (the publish or perish thing), and she’s overseeing the construction of a women’s shelter. All noble endeavors, but you know how they say you can’t have it all…or at least at least all at once? 
 

After divorcing Trey, Charlotte didn’t burden Harry with baby talk the way she did with Trey. She almost ruined their relationship by pushing too hard to get married — pattern? — but Harry didn’t have to put up with it to the same extent. And I can’t say Harry was way more jazzed about kids than Trey was initially, but he got chastened Charlotte, not woman on a mission Charlotte. 

But also? Charlotte got pregnant over 40. She wasn’t working, she had Lily, seemingly happy marriage. Her life was settled and that’s when she got pregnant. 
 

The lingering question for me is if Nya has maybe given herself a chance to be just her husband’s wife for awhile. Not saying she should quit her job or anything, but the side projects might have to wait if you’re actively focused on getting pregnant past a certain point. That’s a hard pill to swallow for ambitious women but age presents a difficulty in getting pregnant as it is. Having multiple plates spinning at once can be stressful — sometimes good or welcome stress, but you’re not twenty-five anymore. 
 

I think the parallel here is the notion of children are being used to show blind spots in relationships. Charlotte let her quest for a baby get bigger than her marriage, and her resentment towards Trey — which she definitely had even if she didn’t flip out — ultimately ruined it. Andre might feel like Nya is more than happy to try and save the world than find alternatives to have a baby, that IVF is her going through the motions — and it’s not, of course, but perception — and she on some level doesn't want kids. And that’s probably not fair to Nya but you can kinda tell when someone has their game face on versus when they don’t. Harry seemed supportive of Charlotte when they were trying to have a baby and maybe that eased her mind a bit. Maybe Trey always seemed a bit half-hearted? Kind of surprising given he was a doctor but…

 

Edited by 27bored
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2 hours ago, 27bored said:

The lingering question for me is if Nya has maybe given herself a chance to be just her husband’s wife for awhile. Not saying she should quit her job or anything, but the side projects might have to wait if you’re actively focused on getting pregnant past a certain point. That’s a hard pill to swallow for ambitious women but age presents a difficulty in getting pregnant as it is. Having multiple plates spinning at once can be stressful — sometimes good or welcome stress, but you’re not twenty-five anymore. 
 

I think the parallel here is the notion of children are being used to show blind spots in relationships. Charlotte let her quest for a baby get bigger than her marriage, and her resentment towards Trey — which she definitely had even if she didn’t flip out — ultimately ruined it. Andre might feel like Nya is more than happy to try and save the world than find alternatives to have a baby, that IVF is her going through the motions — and it’s not, of course, but perception — and she on some level doesn't want kids. And that’s probably not fair to Nya but you can kinda tell when someone has their game face on versus when they don’t. Harry seemed supportive of Charlotte when they were trying to have a baby and maybe that eased her mind a bit. Maybe Trey always seemed a bit half-hearted? Kind of surprising given he was a doctor but…

Apparently Andre and Nya have been together 15 years, and unfortunately we don't know their ages so it's harder to get a view on the overall relationship. I'd say it's 15 years total, we don't know how many married but it seems they've been very committed to and supportive of each other. My impression is also that they have been struggling for a long time and that's one reason they didn't try to have children sooner. First there was college and student debt, early jobs that didn't pay well, Andre is a musician and maybe has done ok but not brought in a lot of money. Nya continued on to get a Ph.D. so lots of time studying and lots of education expense, and now, yes, the need to "publish or perish". We don't know if she has tenure. Her remark about "We're still renting" says a lot, including that she is realistic about finances in crazy-expensive NYC. They may have only felt stable financially for the past few years. She is practical while Andre is wishful and not as aware of what having a baby would really mean for their lives.

I don't at all disagree with the thought that Nya might need to step back from some part of busy her life in order to get pregnant. I'm sure she also realizes that she would have to do that once the child was born, and that's likely one of the reasons she's not enthusiastic about having one. She's likes her life as it is and knows it would change completely if she had a baby. We haven't seen Andre talking about pulling back on his music career (which might involve gigs at night) in order to be a SAH dad or one who puts in a lot of time with a baby and then toddler. 

The more I think about this couple, the more I like their story and wish it were an entirely different show. There's a lot to be explored here, especially with them being an African-American couple, and it could have started at an earlier point in their relationship and built from there. I'd watch that show, HBO. If there is a season 2 of this mess, I really hope Andre and Nya stay together after accepting that they won't have children. Or if they have a baby, it's after agreeing that Andre will be the primary caregiver.

Oh and Charlotte did flip out. Remember the cardboard baby? ;-)  ETA: For me, her blowup at Trey over "that cardboard baby!" was one of the most memorable and funniest scenes in all of SATC.

Edited by RedHawk
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15 hours ago, T Summer said:

Was it mentioned what Andre does for a living? Did I imagine him being a musician?

Yeah he is a musician. 

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4 hours ago, RedHawk said:

Oh and Charlotte did flip out. Remember the cardboard baby? ;-)  ETA: For me, her blowup at Trey over "that cardboard baby!" was one of the most memorable and funniest scenes in all of SATC.

Trey was being an insensitive ass there so I really don’t blame her. 
 

4 hours ago, RedHawk said:

Apparently Andre and Nya have been together 15 years, and unfortunately we don't know their ages so it's harder to get a view on the overall relationship. I'd say it's 15 years total, we don't know how many married but it seems they've been very committed to and supportive of each other. My impression is also that they have been struggling for a long time and that's one reason they didn't try to have children sooner. First there was college and student debt, early jobs that didn't pay well, Andre is a musician and maybe has done ok but not brought in a lot of money. Nya continued on to get a Ph.D. so lots of time studying and lots of education expense, and now, yes, the need to "publish or perish". We don't know if she has tenure. Her remark about "We're still renting" says a lot, including that she is realistic about finances in crazy-expensive NYC. They may have only felt stable financially for the past few years. She is practical while Andre is wishful and not as aware of what having a baby would really mean for their lives.

I could see them being in their early 40s, and having thrown away contraceptives a few years ago but only starting IVF after no pregnancy after 2-3yrs of no contraceptives.  
 

Chatting with ANOTHER friend about this during FaceTime today- she is upset at the optics of another Black woman doing EVERYTHING in the relationship, and yet the man asking for more. If Andre wants a baby so badly and for her to be less stressed he should get a better job, instead he was allowed to focus on his music because she was out there hustling to keep them afloat, and rather than “worshipping her like a goddess” he wants a baby. It’s a narrative she’s tired of seeing (and we see a lot)-especially because it looks like she’s the stable earner.

I don’t feel as passionate about it as she does but I do see her point. I get sick of that narrative too, and yes we have LTW, but you have the entire colorism issue which I admit I don’t pick up on right away all the time coming from a privileged place. 

4 hours ago, RedHawk said:

If there is a season 2 of this mess, I really hope Andre and Nya stay together after accepting that they won't have children. Or if they have a baby, it's after agreeing that Andre will be the primary caregiver.

IF they stay together I hope it’s because they want to and not an “oops” pregnancy. Andre absolutely should be the primary caregiver/stay at home parent, it makes the most sense!

But I don’t want to see Nya so another round of IVF if she doesn’t want to. When Harry and Charlotte were going through this, they both agreed they wanted to be parents no matter what. They were looking into IVF, domestic adoption, international adoption- Harry had his friend who was a judge write them a letter of recommendation. Harry was super supportive- not that I think Andre wouldn’t be supportive of Nya, but again he just had to masturbate, he doesn’t seem to GET what she’s been going through. 

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33 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Chatting with ANOTHER friend about this during FaceTime today- she is upset at the optics of another Black woman doing EVERYTHING in the relationship, and yet the man asking for more. If Andre wants a baby so badly and for her to be less stressed he should get a better job, instead he was allowed to focus on his music because she was out there hustling to keep them afloat, and rather than “worshipping her like a goddess” he wants a baby. It’s a narrative she’s tired of seeing (and we see a lot)-especially because it looks like she’s the stable earner.

I don’t feel as passionate about it as she does but I do see her point. I get sick of that narrative too, and yes we have LTW, but you have the entire colorism issue which I admit I don’t pick up on right away all the time coming from a privileged place. 

Your friend is going hard for the Sisterhood LOL. I respect it but she might need to cut Andre a little slack. Nya's endeavors seem pretty geared towards self-fulfillment. It's not like she's holding down two jobs just so he can sit at home and strum his guitar all day. At the end of the day, Nya married a working musician. He could be an executive at Merrill Lynch, it wouldn't change their predicament as it pertains to her fertility issues. I can only take it half-way serious because I predicated a week or so ago that they were going to have him say or do something that was going to make the audience not like him, but you kind of can't negotiate babies...especially when you're married. Of course you have to be pragmatic about it, but there is no "ugh, fiiiiine...I'll just get the caramel cake since you're out of red velvet" alternative when it comes to children. I think Trey and Charlotte found that out. 

And Nya and Andre are easily the most attractive people on this show. LTW is gorgeous too but she has this Claire Huxtable thing that I'm having a hard time getting past.

5 hours ago, RedHawk said:

I don't at all disagree with the thought that Nya might need to step back from some part of busy her life in order to get pregnant. I'm sure she also realizes that she would have to do that once the child was born, and that's likely one of the reasons she's not enthusiastic about having one. She's likes her life as it is and knows it would change completely if she had a baby. We haven't seen Andre talking about pulling back on his music career (which might involve gigs at night) in order to be a SAH dad or one who puts in a lot of time with a baby and then toddler. 

Andre's music career -- and to be honest I'd love to know more about it considering we know so much about Nya professionally -- is almost certainly more flexible than her life is. I'm sure there are contracts involved if he's committed to a months-long tour, but from day to day, all he has to do is not book that gig or not go to that studio session. Whenever you're a musician, you do have to basically fight for every dollar, because you're essentially an independent contractor. You stand to make at least livable wage if you're a touring musician, which itself can present complications for raising a child, but they're in NYC so I'm sure there are plenty of opportunities around for him.

So I'm saying, he's probably the one who would spend a lot of time with their child during the day anyway since this isn't a day-job type of career. The being away for months on tour would be something to think about for Nya, though.

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I have never ever wanted kids, not for a second in my life, so I realize that I have a hard time understanding what is a very fundamental desire in many people’s lives. But real love and a good relationship with someone you respect and value and enjoy is rare enough to find, so the idea that someone who has that, and has had it for years, as Nya and Andre seemingly have, would decide to throw that all away, throw away the person who they love and who has loved them, for a child that doesn’t exist…I don’t get it. I can’t wrap my head around it. But it looks like Andre might do just that, if Nya just doesn’t want to do the IVF thing anymore.

Then I think that if my significant other told me they never wanted another cat, after years of having cats…well. My life is incomplete without pets, I’ve never NOT had several, so if he suddenly changed his mind about having them, I’d  have to rethink the whole relationship too. Yes, I'm being serious.  This probably seems like a flippant comparison, I know,  but again: my life is incomplete without cats in my life, I love them so hard. So maybe I get it on some level. But it’s damn sad.

 

 

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When it comes to having children and both people can't agree you really can't have a compromise.  If you have child then the person who didn't want one isn't getting what they want and vice versa.  

As been mentioned with Charlotte and Trey if they had stayed together Charlotte would have most likely had to give up her dream of having a child.  And I'm sure I would have felt badly for her.  So am I sexist because I will feel less sympathy for Andre if him and Nya stay together and he has to give up his dream if Nya doesn't want to keep trying? 

I just think there are other stories they could have told with Nya and Andre.  She presumably makes more money than him. A lot of men  have problems with that.  They could have already had a child and with Andre being musician he could have been away a lot and Nya resented him for not being around to help raise their child.  Like so much with this reboot so many missed opportunities.  

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1 hour ago, ifionlyknew said:

As been mentioned with Charlotte and Trey if they had stayed together Charlotte would have most likely had to give up her dream of having a child.  And I'm sure I would have felt badly for her.  So am I sexist because I will feel less sympathy for Andre if him and Nya stay together and he has to give up his dream if Nya doesn't want to keep trying? 

 

I remember her talking to him about adoption and that wasn't going to fly. Harry was perfectly fine with adoption. 

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24 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

I remember her talking to him about adoption and that wasn't going to fly. Harry was perfectly fine with adoption. 

Yeah- Trey didn’t want to “try”. His stance was if they didnt conceive from having sex it wasn’t meant to be. Charlotte wanted to be a parent, IVF, adoption, she was researching and exploring all options. 
 

1 hour ago, ifionlyknew said:

As been mentioned with Charlotte and Trey if they had stayed together Charlotte would have most likely had to give up her dream of having a child.  And I'm sure I would have felt badly for her.  So am I sexist because I will feel less sympathy for Andre if him and Nya stay together and he has to give up his dream if Nya doesn't want to keep trying? 

Maybe? Sexist not in a malicious way, but (I could be interpreting your phrasing incorrectly so please correct me if I am wrong), but given that having biological children is much more of an investment for women than men, AND socially women (on average, yes there are exceptions) put more hours into child care and raising- Nya is the one who has to commit more work to having kids. So Andre doesn’t get to be as upset? I don’t quite agree with that- I think he can be equally upset- feelings are feelings.

In my own circle of childfree friends (hetero couples), it’s normally the woman who stated they didn’t want to have kids (either during dating or at the beginning of the marriage) and the male partner went “if you don’t want them I certainly don’t.”

Now if Andre is willing to adopt a child, and be the primary caregiver I’ll cut him a lot more slack (emotionally) if he leaves the relationship because Nya doesn’t want to try any more with the IVF. 
 

Charlotte truly wanted to try and was doing the research and Trey didn’t. Which was well within Trey’s rights, but I felt bad for Charlotte. Nya did try. 

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27 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Maybe? Sexist not in a malicious way,

Also I don't know Andre the way I knew Charlotte.  And as you said it's a lot more work for Nya to become a parent if they are choosing to have a biological child.  My son's father fathered more than a few children.  That was the easy part.  Actually being a parent wasn't so easy for him.  Not saying that would be what Andre would do but I feel like he is thinking he can coax Nya to continue trying even though she doesn't really want to.  And if they were to succeed as others  have mentioned Nya's career would most likely be affected.  And unfortunately as a working mother she would be judged no matter what she did.  

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19 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I could see them being in their early 40s, and having thrown away contraceptives a few years ago but only starting IVF after no pregnancy after 2-3yrs of no contraceptives.  
 

Chatting with ANOTHER friend about this during FaceTime today- she is upset at the optics of another Black woman doing EVERYTHING in the relationship, and yet the man asking for more. If Andre wants a baby so badly and for her to be less stressed he should get a better job, instead he was allowed to focus on his music because she was out there hustling to keep them afloat, and rather than “worshipping her like a goddess” he wants a baby. It’s a narrative she’s tired of seeing (and we see a lot)-especially because it looks like she’s the stable earner.

I  have to admit  I thought the EXACT same thing!(minus the word black)

If they've been together 15 years I have to imagine Andre and Naya would've discussed whether they both wanted children when they got together. Whilst I sympathized watching Andre express a pang of  sadness watching Herbert in a warm  fatherly moment with his children,  and  I can appreciate that sometimes people's feelings change... I think Andre has a whole lot of blessings he could be counting.

He's been able to pursue his heart's desire being a musician, something a lot of people have to forgo  in favor of  taking up a profession with greater and more reliable  earnings.  Especially a man who has a wife to support.  OK things are changing. and in this instance Naya is the major breadwinner and all parties seem fine with that.

A man expecting to have a wife and children??? In one of the most expensive cities in the world??? Absolutely would need to prioritize higher and steadier earnings. That's not  a sexist or massively traditional view but rather a practical one,  as the woman  will have time out of the workforce having and caring for those children. When she reenters the workforce (if that's what they decide on) then  childcare will add to their expenses. If he'd have done that and they were a family with children he wouldn't have been able to be a musician. He'd have had to get his enjoyment playing music during  hours spent on recreation, if he could carve any out.

So I agree, if someone allowed me to pursue my dream and not have to worry about making the rent I'd be pretty grateful  and IDK how I'd ask more of them. How much more he's asking also depends on some  unknown factors, as we don't know Naya's age on the show and we don't know what Naya's doctor has to say about her having children at this point. He or she must have been ok with it at one point as previous attempts at IVF were mentioned,  but we don't how long ago  that was and as she gets older it could be harder on her body.

 

 

 

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42 minutes ago, T Summer said:

He or she must have been ok with it at one point as previous attempts at IVF were mentioned,  but we don't how long ago  that was and as she gets older it could be harder on her body.

Nya was going through her second try at IVF during the start of this season, so in showtime less than a year ago (given Carrie's hip surgery and the seasons changing, maybe 6-9 months ago). 

 

42 minutes ago, T Summer said:

He's been able to pursue his heart's desire being a musician, something a lot of people have to forgo  in favor of  taking up a profession with greater and more reliable  earnings.  Especially a man who has a wife to support.  OK things are changing. and in this instance Naya is the major breadwinner and all parties seem fine with that.

A man expecting to have a wife and children??? In one of the most expensive cities in the world??? Absolutely would need to prioritize higher and steadier earnings. That's not  a sexist or massively traditional view but rather a practical one,  as the woman  will have time out of the workforce having and caring for those children. When she reenters the workforce (if that's what they decide on) then  childcare will add to their expenses. If he'd have done that and they were a family with children he wouldn't have been able to be a musician. He'd have had to get his enjoyment playing music during  hours spent on recreation, if he could carve any out.

So I agree, if someone allowed me to pursue my dream and not have to worry about making the rent I'd be pretty grateful  and IDK how I'd ask more of them. How much more he's asking also depends on some  unknown factors, as we don't know Naya's age on the show and we don't know what Naya's doctor has to say about her having children at this point. He or she must have been ok with it at one point as previous attempts at IVF were mentioned,  but we don't how long ago  that was and as she gets older it could be harder on her body.

To this part, after chatting with my friend I mentioned above, I have to wonder if a part of these optics is the conscious or unconscious notion that a woman in Nya's position (an well educated, career ambitious Black woman who can't pass the brown paper bag test) should be happy to have a loving husband and should bend to what he wants because she is lucky to have him. Speaking as a black viewer, the optics of the woman "holding the man down" is something that I see in media ALL THE TIME. I have nothing against seeing that in the media, but that's not all I want to see, representation of other types of black couples matter to me. (Again, thank goodness for LTW and her husband although her husband isn't really a character).

Compare that to original SATC, (where all the main characters were white so it was different), the least traditionally feminine character of Miranda, was often written as if she should just be happy to have Steve as a boyfriend, because her being a high earner and ambitious made her less attractive to men. Here I am talking about the immature, insecure Steve, the one who wanted a puppy but expected her to take care of it when they were together in Season 3 I think it was. Steve was kind of a man child for a long time, he did mature, but damn it he was in his 30s! (I think their storyline would've made more sense if Miranda was just out of law school at her first job and he was still puttering about). No I am not insinuating that Steve was immature because he made less money than Miranda, I am referencing the lack of respect he seemed to have for the hours she had to spend working when he was living in her very nice condo and she was paying most of the bills.

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1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

To this part, after chatting with my friend I mentioned above, I have to wonder if a part of these optics is the conscious or unconscious notion that a woman in Nya's position (an well educated, career ambitious Black woman who can't pass the brown paper bag test) should be happy to have a loving husband and should bend to what he wants because she is lucky to have him. Speaking as a black viewer, the optics of the woman "holding the man down" is something that I see in media ALL THE TIME. I have nothing against seeing that in the media, but that's not all I want to see, representation of other types of black couples matter to me. (Again, thank goodness for LTW and her husband although her husband isn't really a character).

Yeah, F' that narrative whatever the genesis is! She's beautiful, in great shape, has a very prestigious job: Columbia law Professor, higher earnings than most (like 2-3 x) and in addition to letting her husband pursue his dream, here's another consideration: who do we think has more job related stress and demands on their time after hours? He should be very happy  and consider himself lucky to have HER!

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8 minutes ago, T Summer said:

Yeah, F' that narrative whatever the genesis is! She's beautiful, in great shape, has a very prestigious job: Columbia law Professor, higher earnings than most (like 2-3 x) and in addition to letting her husband pursue his dream, here's another consideration: who do we think has more job related stress and demands on their time after hours? He should be very happy  and consider himself lucky to have HER!

Oh yeah I agree. Nya is gorgeous, smart, interesting and sexy as hell. He is lucky to have her. 
 

But like how Miranda said in Season 2 of SATC when Steve broke up with her over her purchase of the suit “I am being punished for being successful”, or how in season 4 she said she was a flight attendant rather than a lawyer because “I were a man, owning a home and being a lawyer would make me a catch rather than a flaw”- women of color in similar situations have it WAY WORSE a lot of the time. They are either punished for being successful, made to feel guilty about it, or expected to just “be grateful” to have a man.

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44 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Oh yeah I agree. Nya is gorgeous, smart, interesting and sexy as hell. He is lucky to have her. 
 

But like how Miranda said in Season 2 of SATC when Steve broke up with her over her purchase of the suit “I am being punished for being successful”, or how in season 4 she said she was a flight attendant rather than a lawyer because “I were a man, owning a home and being a lawyer would make me a catch rather than a flaw”- women of color in similar situations have it WAY WORSE a lot of the time. They are either punished for being successful, made to feel guilty about it, or expected to just “be grateful” to have a man.

Ugh, that's all so sad. Nya is a huge catch. So WAS Miranda lol

Do you guys remember even Charlotte thought men would be insecure about her owning and that she rented for the longest time? And then there was that guy she brought over who couldn't get over the size of her place, the one she kept after her divorce with Trey. He was a huge jerk to her about it. 

I'm not even wealthy and don't currently make a ton. But I've experienced men being insecure if I made more money, my savings, or if I drive a certain car, etc. You almost feel like you need to be with a high earner just to not deal with the insecurities of being the one with more. 

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14 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

Ugh, that's all so sad. Nya is a huge catch. So WAS Miranda lol

Do you guys remember even Charlotte thought men would be insecure about her owning and that she rented for the longest time? And then there was that guy she brought over who couldn't get over the size of her place, the one she kept after her divorce with Trey. He was a huge jerk to her about it. 

I'm not even wealthy and don't currently make a ton. But I've experienced men being insecure if I made more money, my savings, or if I drive a certain car, etc. You almost feel like you need to be with a high earner just to not deal with the insecurities of being the one with more. 

Yeah, in heteronormative relationships women are expected to marry/partner UP the socio-economic ladder. The problem is that there are fewer high earners (men and women) to choose from, and a lot of high earner men sometimes don't make the best partners because they know what great catches they are- or they are "Big types" and don't want partner until their 50s when they are tired of "hunting". I see how for ANY woman who has a lot going for her (no matter her race or ethnic background) that can be a challenge for a bunch of sexist reasons and expectations around relationships. 

Things are a lot better than they were in the 90s when original SATC aired- I see a 2022 Charlotte being fine with owning rather than renting, but wouldn't talk to a guy who didn't own yet. I see a 2022 Miranda not lying about being a flight attendant, but using social media etc to scope out a guy's career etc first.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think ANYONE hated Maria/Sonia Braga from SATC.  I don't think anyone hated Eddie Cahill when he played the bisexual guy who dated Carrie.  I don't think anyone who hated the drag queens who made noise downstairs from Samantha's meat-packing neighbourhood apartment. 

So I don't think SATC fans have a problem with LGBTQIA+ people or storylines. I think if the writing is good, and the acting can pull it off, the fans will be into it.  In fact, the only complaints I remember around the bisexual storyline were that Carrie was really ignorant and narrow-minded for a sex columnist.

I think SATC fans are pretty openminded about and into sex and unconventional storylines, but you can't rewrite the past, you can't insult our intelligence, and you can't gaslight the fans.

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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3 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think ANYONE hated Maria/Sonia Braga from SATC.  I don't think anyone hated Eddie Cahill when he played the bisexual guy who dated Carrie.  I don't think anyone who hated the drag queens who made noise downstairs from Samantha's meat-packing neighbourhood apartment. 

So I don't think SATC fans have a problem with LGBTQIA+ people or storylines. I think if the writing is good, and the acting can pull it off, the fans will be into it.  In fact, the only complaints I remember around the bisexual storyline were that Carrie was really ignorant and narrow-minded for a sex columnist.

 

Exactly! I've read posts saying they wished SATC were more inclusive or that some of the writing was cringey, but I've never read criticisms that were bigoted. Not to say SATC can't be bigots, just that as a whole, we seem to be a very open, accepting bunch. We just want good storylines and for these beloved characters to be respected. 

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7 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think ANYONE hated Maria/Sonia Braga from SATC.  I don't think anyone hated Eddie Cahill when he played the bisexual guy who dated Carrie.  I don't think anyone who hated the drag queens who made noise downstairs from Samantha's meat-packing neighbourhood apartment. 

So I don't think SATC fans have a problem with LGBTQIA+ people or storylines. I think if the writing is good, and the acting can pull it off, the fans will be into it.  In fact, the only complaints I remember around the bisexual storyline were that Carrie was really ignorant and narrow-minded for a sex columnist.

I think SATC fans are pretty openminded about and into sex and unconventional storylines, but you can't rewrite the past, you can't insult our intelligence, and you can't gaslight the fans.

ALL of this.

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20 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think ANYONE hated Maria/Sonia Braga from SATC.  I don't think anyone hated Eddie Cahill when he played the bisexual guy who dated Carrie.  I don't think anyone who hated the drag queens who made noise downstairs from Samantha's meat-packing neighbourhood apartment. 

So I don't think SATC fans have a problem with LGBTQIA+ people or storylines. I think if the writing is good, and the acting can pull it off, the fans will be into it.  In fact, the only complaints I remember around the bisexual storyline were that Carrie was really ignorant and narrow-minded for a sex columnist.

I think SATC fans are pretty openminded about and into sex and unconventional storylines, but you can't rewrite the past, you can't insult our intelligence, and you can't gaslight the fans.

I agree with this. I don’t think the fans of SATC have a problem with a non-binary character, but like a lot of people have said- if the writing and character development is poor, it becomes representation just for the sake of it. Which is offensive to marginalized/minority groups- in my opinion.  

Like the “Black/POC BFF or co-worker”- I don’t judge any POC actor for taking the role and wanting/needing to work, and for so many years there were not people of color on mainstream tv/film etc, so I get it.  It’s great to finally see yourself. But come on- I know Willie Garrison died, so that’s why we have no Standford, but Stanford fell into this trope during SATC, (a gay man that was just a trope) Anthony seemed to have more of an actual personality. 
 

Sara is a far better actor and Che could’ve been a cool character. They certainly can bring the “sexy swagger”- but not this way messing with Miranda as a character. She’s older she did not have a personality transplant. 

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Here's the transcript from "Boy, Girl, Boy, Girl".  It doesn't say who said what line, but I'm bolding the lines that I'm guessing Miranda said at the time.  Someone with better memory than myself can confirm.  Italics will be Samantha.

My point is that Carrie, Charlotte, and to some extent Miranda, were all pretty ignorant about bisexuality.  Carrie and Miranda don't even seem to "believe" in it.  Samantha's the only one who completely gets it.

I get that people can evolve over time, but the writers laid absolutely zero groundwork for Miranda's 2.0 version in AJLT.  As George Costanza said about himself, they both always had a record of 'staunch heterosexuality'. LOL.  

He's a bisexual.
I could have told you that. He took you ice-skating for god's sake.
The weird thing is he was so open about it. "Hi. I'm a bisexual." Like, "Hi, I'm from Colorado or something".
I don’t think you're allowed to be bisexual in Colorado.
"Is that a problem?" What kind of question is that problem?
- Of course it's a problem!  (This has gotta be Charlotte)
- What did you say?
I said it wasn’t a problem. I panicked. He's such a good kisser.
That generation is all about sexual experimentation. All the kids are going bi.
So what? If all the Bi kids jump off a bridge, you're gonna do that too?
I'm a "try-sexual". I'll try anything once.
When did this happen? When did the sexes get all confused?
Somewhere between Gen X and Y, they blended and made XY.
I did the "date the bisexual guy" thing in college. But in the end they all ended up with men.
So did the bisexual women.
Which explains why there are no available men left for us.
Maybe I do have a problem with this. I'm an old fart.
Correction: A hot old fart.
I'm not even sure bisexuality exists. It's just a layover on the way to Gaytown.
Isn’t that where next to Ricky Martinville?
I think it's great. He's open to all sexual experiences. He's evolved. It's hot.
It's not hot. It's greedy. He's double-dipping.
You're not marrying the guy, you're making out with him. Enjoy, don’t worry about the label.
You're right.
I'm very into labels. Gay. Straight. Pick a side and stay there.

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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4 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Here's the transcript from "Boy, Girl, Boy, Girl".  It doesn't say who said what line, but I'm bolding the lines that I'm guessing Miranda said at the time.  Someone with better memory than myself can confirm.  Italics will be Samantha.

My point is that Carrie, Charlotte, and to some extent Miranda, were all pretty ignorant about bisexuality.  Carrie and Miranda don't even seem to "believe" in it.  Samantha's the only one who completely gets it.

I get that people can evolve over time, but the writers laid absolutely zero groundwork for Miranda's 2.0 version in AJLT.  As George Costanza said about himself, they both always had a record of 'staunch heterosexuality'. LOL.  

He's a bisexual.
I could have told you that. He took you ice-skating for god's sake.
The weird thing is he was so open about it. "Hi. I'm a bisexual." Like, "Hi, I'm from Colorado or something".
I don’t think you're allowed to be bisexual in Colorado.
"Is that a problem?" What kind of question is that problem?
- Of course it's a problem!  (This has gotta be Charlotte)
- What did you say?
I said it wasn’t a problem. I panicked. He's such a good kisser.
That generation is all about sexual experimentation. All the kids are going bi.
So what? If all the Bi kids jump off a bridge, you're gonna do that too?
I'm a "try-sexual". I'll try anything once.
When did this happen? When did the sexes get all confused?
Somewhere between Gen X and Y, they blended and made XY.
I did the "date the bisexual guy" thing in college. But in the end they all ended up with men.
So did the bisexual women.
Which explains why there are no available men left for us.
Maybe I do have a problem with this. I'm an old fart.
Correction: A hot old fart.
I'm not even sure bisexuality exists. It's just a layover on the way to Gaytown.
Isn’t that where next to Ricky Martinville?
I think it's great. He's open to all sexual experiences. He's evolved. It's hot.
It's not hot. It's greedy. He's double-dipping.
You're not marrying the guy, you're making out with him. Enjoy, don’t worry about the label.
You're right.
I'm very into labels. Gay. Straight. Pick a side and stay there.

The ladies (minus Samantha) were pretty ignorant, but at least we had Samantha as a voice of acceptance. I don’t think we as the viewers were supposed to agree with Carrie- I think Carrie was just representing herself. 

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1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

The ladies (minus Samantha) were pretty ignorant, but at least we had Samantha as a voice of acceptance. I don’t think we as the viewers were supposed to agree with Carrie- I think Carrie was just representing herself. 

I don't think any of them were hateful, but I do think all of them had their ignorant moments. I love SATC, but a lot of the scenes definitely show their age. 

https://www.indy100.com/showbiz/sex-and-the-city-problematic-race-slut-shaming-8385976

 

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That episode "Boy Girl, Boy Girl" stuck out to me like a sore thumb because it seemed like the writers inserted  some words in the actresses' mouths they'd never utter. Someone who writes a sex column certainly knows that there are people who are all kinds of things in between strictly heterosexual and strictly homosexual. Give me an f'ing break!🙄

 

 

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Responding here from No Strings Attached 

5 hours ago, Dr.OO7 said:

I loved Charlotte, but I didn't have an ounce of sympathy for her regarding her disastrous marriage to Trey. She rushed into it five minutes after meeting him, rushed into having a baby five minutes after they reconciled, went completely overboard in her efforts to procure a child after her fertility problems were discovered, then has the nerve to be angry with him for talking to his mother (who albeit, is an overbearing pain in the ass) when she discussed their problems with COMPLETE STRANGERS and didn't discuss half of the things she was doing with HIM. But when an exhausted and overwhelmed Trey asks if they can simply take a break from everything, HE'S the bad guy.

Let's not forget how stupid she was to quit her job before she even got pregnant and was now unable to get it back after the marriage fell apart.

I loved Charlotte too, but her immaturity drove me crazy. She came across as a desperate, pushy pick me. I wasn't a fan of the Trey character, but you're right that Charlotte made so many mistakes with that relationship. 

Yes Miranda didn't get it either. The Miranda of that time would not be behaving the way she does now. She was usually quite logical. 

You know that pretty girl you'd think would have no problems with men and wants marriage more than anything but just tries and tries and it never works out? That's Charlotte. You can be beautiful on the outside but became really unattractive when you constantly talk like a little girl and make boneheaded decisions. 

And then she did a bit of it with Harry "Set the date!!! Do you know what people think when they see us together?!" Oh Charlotte, relax sweetie. The pushiness and screeching aren't becoming. 

I think I'm the only one who can find something to complain about with every character. lol

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On 1/29/2022 at 11:08 PM, Scarlett45 said:

Ugh I know! I would’ve preferred them to have kept Miranda and Steve broken up, but stayed friends and parents to Brady. That does happen, people often raise children together much more easily if they don’t try to be a couple.

Exactly. I always found Miranda and Steve getting together to be a classic example of Strangled By The Red String--she spends most of their entire on-off relationship acting angry or annoyed with him and outright asks if he's "fucking crazy" when he proposes after she gets pregnant. Literally out of nowhere, she decides she's madly in love with him and is suddenly all swoony and gaga. It just came across like the writers just wanting to quickly wrap up her story for the end of the show. 

I'm not surprised at all that the first movie and now this series (even if I've only read the recaps) had their relationship right back to how tense it almost always was.

And even though Steve isn't a bad guy, per se, I wish people would stop deifying him--he basically stalked and harassed Miranda after their one-night-stand and refused to take "No, I don't want a relationship with you" for an answer (as always, TV portrayed this as "cute" and "sweet") and I felt like he always trying to force her to relax and have fun rather than let it happen naturally.

Edited by Dr.OO7
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I wouldn’t have minded watching a series called And Just Like That starring only Seema, LTW, Nya, and Che where we follow the friendship of women of color who are navigating sex, love, work, and life in NYC in the midst of middle age. Maybe a cameo appearance by Carrie whose life I could see occasionally intertwining with their cosmopolitan life.

Instead we get….

Edited by Not4Me
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13 hours ago, Dr.OO7 said:

Literally out of nowhere, she decides she's madly in love with him and is suddenly all swoony and gaga. It just came across like the writers just wanting to quickly wrap up her story for the end of the show. 

I'm on the record as saying I never bought into Miranda suddenly realizing Steve was the right man for her.  If not for Brady they never would have gotten married.  And it would have been realistic after him cheating on her in the first movie for her to say I forgive you but I think we should move on from each other. But the writers had her realize once again Steve is who she wanted to spend the rest of her life with.

Fast forward to now and the writers are telling us eh you know what?  Miranda was never happy with Steve.  What viewers saw doesn't exist anymore.  Miranda needs liberated and Che is just the persons to do it. 

I think I might be a little more forgiving of the writers if some of them weren't the same writers who wrote the original Miranda and Steve story.  

13 hours ago, Dr.OO7 said:

And even though Steve isn't a bad guy, per se, I wish people would stop deifying him--he basically stalked and harassed Miranda after their one-night-stand and refused to take "No, I don't want a relationship with you" for an answer (as always, TV portrayed this as "cute" and "sweet") and I felt like he always trying to force her to relax and have fun rather than let it happen naturally.

I am not a Steve fan. Never have been.  But in this story I am on his side.  Although I would have more respect for him if he let Miranda go.  Steve honey she just ain't worth it.  

Edited by ifionlyknew
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My mom saw episodes 1-2 but hadn’t found it appealing so she quit. I told her what fun discussion we were having in this forum and she picked up the episodes again. 
 

We are on episode 9, and she concurs that Cynthia Nixon has a HUGE ASS CRUSH on Sarah Ramirez and that’s why Miranda has a personality transplant and is acting like a giddy 14 years old with her first crush and not a woman of 53 who was always the logical rational one (to a fault).  

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Thinking about something @millennium said in the last episode thread about Miranda being latently in love with Carrie. 
 

I had NEVER thought about this, but I see where you are coming from. I always thought Miranda was on the aromantic spectrum (once I learned what that was), and for people that are aromantic, friendships can look really intense because we don’t experience romantic love the way “typical” people do (but we still have emotional needs of course). 
 

Miranda always seemed really upset how Carrie acted with Big, Charlotte was upset for the cheating part (which was in character for her), Sam just didn’t want Carrie to get hurt, but Miranda would come off as feeling “betrayed” sometimes. And with Carrie moving away to Paris- yeah she was so upset. One of my closest friends moved from Chicago to Asia, and I was sad but I wasn’t angry at her for doing something she really wanted to do. I identify a lot with Miranda but on those two instances I was on Carrie’s side, like “dude, let Carrie live!”  

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SATC was bad enough. This one is an embarrassment. Sad to see Cynthia Nixon still doing this. Good for KC that didn't get into this crap. 

SJP and Big have zero chemistry. The whole first episode cutesy stuff was forced and too choreographed, like bad amateur theatre.

What were they thinking indeed. I mean, money, obviously, but at the cost of artistic integrity.

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On 2/1/2022 at 12:01 PM, RealHousewife said:

I think I'm the only one who can find something to complain about with every character. lol

Actually your'e not. 

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On 5/30/2022 at 11:01 AM, circumvent said:

What were they thinking indeed. I mean, money, obviously, but at the cost of artistic integrity.

That shipped sailed with the second movie. 

They made so many missteps and had so many missed opportunities with AJLT a book could be written.  The show was not a show about the SATC characters a decade later.  The show was about "woke" issues and just  happened to feature SATC characters.  I shudder to think how fucked up they are going to make season 2.

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23 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

The show was about "woke" issues and just  happened to feature SATC characters.  

PERFECT synopsis! 

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1 hour ago, bluegirl147 said:

That shipped sailed with the second movie.

I'm glad I  never watched the movies then.

You are right. Just throw all the identities and "diversity" there, don't really talk about it, ignore how real New Yorkers live, dress like a clown with absurd clothes that no one real wears, check all the boxes, sell the final product and feel good about the shit they created.

I believe visibility is important but without actual stories, discussions and how things really happen, it is just virtue signaling.

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38 minutes ago, circumvent said:

You are right. Just throw all the identities and "diversity" there, don't really talk about it, ignore how real New Yorkers live, dress like a clown with absurd clothes that no one real wears, check all the boxes, sell the final product and feel good about the shit they created.

I believe visibility is important but without actual stories, discussions and how things really happen, it is just virtue signaling.

I really do think MPK and the writers think they should get applause for just mentioning issues.  It's like hey look at us. We have non binary actor playing a non binary character. Never mind it's an awful story.  I will be curious if AJLT gets any Emmy nominations.  The writing was terrible and I don't think the acting was all that great either.  So I wonder if voters will vote for them simply because they attempted to do something. Never mind they failed miserably. 

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Just a random question and decided to ask it here. Did Carrie quit smoking in AJLT or in SATC? Does she still smoke? I don't recall seeing her with her cigarette addiction in AJLT. But I could have missed it.

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23 minutes ago, chenoa333 said:

Just a random question and decided to ask it here. Did Carrie quit smoking in AJLT or in SATC? Does she still smoke? I don't recall seeing her with her cigarette addiction in AJLT. But I could have missed it.

Both. She'd apparently been a non smoker for years but took it up again, post Big-death, especially when hanging with Seema. But also while dressed like a charwoman and walking around her block. But then she quit again 

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38 minutes ago, luna1122 said:

Both. She'd apparently been a non smoker for years but took it up again, post Big-death, especially when hanging with Seema. But also while dressed like a charwoman and walking around her block. But then she quit again 

I have often wondered if SJP was a hard core smoker in real life. Thus, the realistic ability to smoke in SATC. Buf i didn't notice Carrie smoking again after Big died. I haven't found AJLT to be Just That Interesting so it makes sense that I missed the whole "Carrie smoking" thing. Thanks for the info Luna!

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On 9/1/2022 at 12:19 PM, chenoa333 said:

I have often wondered if SJP was a hard core smoker in real life.

Over the weekend I watched Till There Was You, a movie from the late 90s which co starred SJP. She was a smoker in that. That would have a been a year or so SATC.  I don't remember her smoking in other roles but it could just be I wasn't paying attention.

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3 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

Over the weekend I watched Till There Was You, a movie from the late 90s which co starred SJP. She was a smoker in that. That would have a been a year or so SATC.  I don't remember her smoking in other roles but it could just be I wasn't paying attention.

Her character in Footloose (the original '84 version, naturally!) had a scene where she smoked in a bar, too.

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