Hive Mind: Speculation

[peachmangosteen]

I loved Lost so I hope this show can be like that, just an amazing character study with characters so rich I don't even care about how stupid the plot gets. And I do think they can do that but I still think they're going to regret doing 5 seasons. 

[Anela]

I’m not out, I like the show, but when that guy said, “i’m… J(ay)” this was me:

Edited April 3, 2023 by Anela

[peachmangosteen]

I know they did that on purpose lol. It's kinda funny but also yes kind of annoying.

I also find myself being a bit put off by the fact that the canablilism (sp?) happened so soon and before they were actually like completely starving and depleted. It feels less like it was out of a necessity and more about them being, you know, insane lol.

[Anela]

They didn't eat each other, in Lost, because they just so happened to find bunkers with food, and they could shower. Plane crash, lost in the woods (or on a beach), hunting for food, flashbacks, but mainly, the writers said they had a plan, and the people guessing things like "they're in purgatory" weren't correct, when they actually had no plan, and lied to the viewers. Or their plan was exactly what was guessed, but some people still fight over that, and it's been almost thirteen years since it ended.

I do envy the people who are all excited over this show. I was that way over Lost, but gave up guessing what was happening, early on. Just went with it, to see what happened. But I was all excited over the premiere, and the beginning of the second season. I had all these things to do, before it aired, so I was rushing around. I don't really get that excited over things, anymore. 

Edited April 3, 2023 by Anela

[Brn2bwild]

I can believe Mari is Pit Girl, or one of the Pit Girls, because it feels as though they've amped up the mean with her.  Last year she just seemed like a typical teen girl.  She gave that JV (name escapes me) a good-natured ribbing when they got on the plane.  She cozied up to Jackie when she had the chance, then distanced herself when she (and everyone else) saw Jackie start to unravel and withdraw, then (like everyone else) became hostile toward Jackie when she wouldn't pitch in.

This season, Mari is just mean to everyone.  Misty, whose mushrooms she stole to make the poisoned soup (and now blames her).  Shauna for not being Jackie's "protector" because... she didn't protect Jackie from choosing to go outside?  She's getting on everyone's shit list.

Then again, seeing how pitifully small their pot of "dinner" was the night they complained about Shauna being late, I understand why she might not have the patience she once did.

[sistermagpie]

4 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I also find myself being a bit put off by the fact that the canablilism (sp?) happened so soon and before they were actually like completely starving and depleted. It feels less like it was out of a necessity and more about them being, you know, insane lol.

I thought that was definitely intention and was really happy about it. It also fits more with the opening scene with pit girl. It's a mystical thing more than just strictly hunger. The forest gave them another feast!

[Tatum]

17 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

WRT to pit girl, her identity just doesn't seem that important to be as an answer to be solved. If the show was into dragging things out they probably would have waited longer for cannibalism, but as they said, there was no reason to just keep people waiting for the thing they've never hidden was coming. Pit Girl just happened to be the person getting sacrificed that we saw that one time--doesn't mean she was the first to be sacrificed that way. On the contrary, seems like the routine was set by that point. So we can see them getting the idea to sacrifice someone this season without us getting exactly to pit girl.

Fair point about her identity not really being an overly interesting mystery- it's either Mari or a character who wasn't even formally identified in season 1. There were only 10 characters (eta: 10 soccer players) with speaking parts (and names) in S1, and 8 of them have been confirmed as either alive in 2021 or dead before the rituals started.

 

But what I am curious about is that Pit girl is not the girl strung up, throat slit, and what fed the girls during the ritual, correct? They didn't show much, but when the girl was hanging by her ankles, her torso and legs were smooth- where Pit girl was impaled in like 20 different places, notably in the back and upper thighs. So it is possible Pit Girl was murdered for different reasons than a cannibalistic ritual. The two incidents do appear to be related, but it would be pretty lazy if that was supposed to be the same character.

Edited April 4, 2023 by Tatum
Clarity

[peachmangosteen]

I think it's the same girl. This team didn't suspect that people would look at Jackie's journal closely, so the fact that Pit Girl didn't have wounds was probably just an oversight. They also used a random stunt double for those scenes. Basically, I don't think who Pit Girl is specifically is important. That was just foreshadowing to them hunting and eating people.

Quote

Fair point about her identity not really being an overly interesting mystery- it's either Mari or a character who wasn't even formally identified in season 1. There were only 10 characters with speaking parts (and names) in S1, and 8 of them have been confirmed as either alive in 2021 or dead before the rituals started.

I mentioned this is the ep thread but I'm assuming they've retconned it and now there are only 13 people still alive in the wilderness (Javi unknown): Natalie, Shauna, Tai, Misty, Lottie, Van, Travis, Coach, Mari, Akilah, 3 new girls. That does only leave 6 people for the mains to eat in 5 seasons though so I don't know lol.

[blixie]

Yeah I think just sloppy/lazy. It's probably meant to be the same girl. I also think the pit girl scene is so visceral and we are so in her POV that it's hard to disengage from wanting to know WHO she is amongst the girls on the plane. We don't have to know her well to empathize with being hunted down by your ex team mates in the witchy woods, but like it would be kind of shitty to anonymize her?I don't need to know but for such a gripping opening sequence to just say eh it doesn't actually matter who she is is disappointing.

 

Quote

It's a mystical thing more than just strictly hunger. 

I think the show has been fairly straightforward that it's mysticism/supernatural what happened to the girls in the woods, and like a lot of horror (I think this is very much a horror story) it prefers to make things metaphorical rather than literal, and the ambiguity of is it trauma/witch induced is just meant to make the girls reckon with their guilt regardless of it's internal or external reasoning. 

[Anela]

1 hour ago, blixie said:

Yeah I think just sloppy/lazy. It's probably meant to be the same girl. I also think the pit girl scene is so visceral and we are so in her POV that it's hard to disengage from wanting to know WHO she is amongst the girls on the plane. We don't have to know her well to empathize with being hunted down by your ex team mates in the witchy woods, but like it would be kind of shitty to anonymize her?I don't need to know but for such a gripping opening sequence to just say eh it doesn't actually matter who she is is disappointing.

 

I think the show has been fairly straightforward that it's mysticism/supernatural what happened to the girls in the woods, and like a lot of horror (I think this is very much a horror story) it prefers to make things metaphorical rather than literal, and the ambiguity of is it trauma/witch induced is just meant to make the girls reckon with their guilt regardless of it's internal or external reasoning. 

They said the scene was supposed to hook viewers, to get them interested. It will be shitty if they just leave at that.  
the writers said they were surprised to receive a lot of horror nominations, because it wasn’t a horror show. But they have girls hunting their teammates and friends for food.  🙄

[sistermagpie]

8 hours ago, Tatum said:

But what I am curious about is that Pit girl is not the girl strung up, throat slit, and what fed the girls during the ritual, correct?

I lean towards what others feel too, that it is the same girl, they just screwed up the continuity--but maybe for a better visual. A sacrifice with holes in it didn't look as good.

 

3 hours ago, blixie said:

Yeah I think just sloppy/lazy. It's probably meant to be the same girl. I also think the pit girl scene is so visceral and we are so in her POV that it's hard to disengage from wanting to know WHO she is amongst the girls on the plane. We don't have to know her well to empathize with being hunted down by your ex team mates in the witchy woods, but like it would be kind of shitty to anonymize her?I don't need to know but for such a gripping opening sequence to just say eh it doesn't actually matter who she is is disappointing.

I don't think it matters *yet* who she is, but when the scene actually happens it will. At least that's my prediction.

3 hours ago, blixie said:

I think the show has been fairly straightforward that it's mysticism/supernatural what happened to the girls in the woods, and like a lot of horror (I think this is very much a horror story) it prefers to make things metaphorical rather than literal, and the ambiguity of is it trauma/witch induced is just meant to make the girls reckon with their guilt regardless of it's internal or external reasoning. 

Agreed!

[JasonCC]

I agree the identity of the pit girl isn't the be-all and end-all mystery. It's more (for me anyway) how they got so witchy and cult-like with the animal skins etc. Right now they are acting like there is NO small game whatsoever but aren't some of those S1E1 opener teases showing girls with rabbit and fox skins? Or am I imagining that?

Add me to the group who thinks Mari is being portrayed a little less sympathetically--but two months later in winter would start to take its toll. They should just name and introduce all the background girls now. Even though 5 seasons (one too long in my opinion, but I'm giving benefit of the doubt) there are only 9 or 10 episodes a season. Let's just name and know who is who (Crystal, Gen, et al...) NOW (even if they get minimal screen-time) and avoid any gimmicky Nikki and Paulos being saved for later.

 

Edited April 5, 2023 by JasonCC

[sistermagpie]

36 minutes ago, JasonCC said:

I agree the identity of the pit girl isn't the be-all and end-all mystery. It's more (for me anyway) how they got so witchy and cult-like with the animal skins etc. Right now they are acting like there is NO small game whatsoever but aren't some of those S1E1 opener teases showing girls with rabbit and fox skins? Or am I imagining that?

We see Akilah working on the bear skin, I think, in S1, so I assume during the summer and spring they were catching game and always saving the skins. Eventually they ought to have enough to make cool outfits!

[peachmangosteen]

I can't remember, did the survivors cop to cannibalism but just not hunting each other or did they not even say they became cannibals at all? If they didn't, then how did they explain the missing bodies lol? I guess they could just say animals got to them.

ETA: Wait, duh, they probably just said they burned them all.

[Anela]

21 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I can't remember, did the survivors cop to cannibalism but just not hunting each other or did they not even say they became cannibals at all? If they didn't, then how did they explain the missing bodies lol? I guess they could just say animals got to them.

ETA: Wait, duh, they probably just said they burned them all.

I don’t think they admitted to it, what with those people who kept digging in, and asking what really happened out there.  

[sistermagpie]

3 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I can't remember, did the survivors cop to cannibalism but just not hunting each other or did they not even say they became cannibals at all? If they didn't, then how did they explain the missing bodies lol? I guess they could just say animals got to them.

 

Seems like they never said anything, period. People just assume cannibalism, but they maintain the story that Shauna gave, that a lot of their friends died and they starved a lot but survived.

[KaveDweller]

1 hour ago, sistermagpie said:

Seems like they never said anything, period. People just assume cannibalism, but they maintain the story that Shauna gave, that a lot of their friends died and they starved a lot but survived.

I agree, but I kind of wonder why people assume cannibalism? If I heard about people surviving in the wilderness I don't think my mind would go there, I would assume they got lucky with hunting/fishing. 

[sistermagpie]

2 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

I agree, but I kind of wonder why people assume cannibalism? If I heard about people surviving in the wilderness I don't think my mind would go there, I would assume they got lucky with hunting/fishing. 

I think because everyone knows about things like the Andes plane crash with the soccer team and the Donner Party. Mountains and snow means cannibalism in the popular imagination.

[VioletMarx]

Ugh, no episode this week? WTF.

In the meantime, I need at least two, preferably three, of the following questions to be answered this season. I feel like we're treading water a bit and if we have to wait til season 3 for all this to be revealed, I might be out:

1. Where is wilderness baby?

2. Does Jeff know about wilderness baby?

3. How did they get rescued?

4. Where is Ben?

Those are in order of how much I want the answers.

Anyone else?

 

 

 

[sistermagpie]

51 minutes ago, VioletMarx said:

2. Does Jeff know about wilderness baby?

 

I know people question this but it seems impossible that anybody could suggest he read Shauna's diaries and she just didn't mention it along with stuff so bad it could be used as blackmail and make her cry to think Jeff still loves her after knowing it. 

Edited April 28, 2023 by sistermagpie

[BitterApple]

58 minutes ago, VioletMarx said:

Ugh, no episode this week? WTF.

In the meantime, I need at least two, preferably three, of the following questions to be answered this season. I feel like we're treading water a bit and if we have to wait til season 3 for all this to be revealed, I might be out:

1. Where is wilderness baby?

2. Does Jeff know about wilderness baby?

3. How did they get rescued?

4. Where is Ben?

Those are in order of how much I want the answers.

Anyone else?

 

 

 

I'll add "Where was Javi this whole time?" to that list. 

I'm hoping we get at least a couple answers by the season finale. 

[peachmangosteen]

4 hours ago, VioletMarx said:

1. Where is wilderness baby?

2. Does Jeff know about wilderness baby?

3. How did they get rescued?

4. Where is Ben?

I feel like Shauna's baby is most definitely dead. I think the baby living and surviving to present day is a little convoluted and this show has so far been a bit more mundane than that. 

I don't see how Jeff wouldn't know about the baby since he read the diaries. I don't know that they'll ever 'answer' that because it just seems obvious he does.

I am also really interested to see how they're rescued but I don't see that happening this season.

I'll be shocked if Ben lived but I want him to, even though it's sort of ridiculous if every main character lived to present day.

[Anela]

It seemed like the writers were referring to the girls as being unreliable narrators, a lot this season, so that’s another reason I just decided to just watch, and see what happens. unless they were referring to them imagining other things, as snackie became a reality. 

I want Ben to somehow live, too. His imagining a life with his boyfriend, could also give him the will to keep trying, and not just give up. But he’s probably a goner. 

 

[AstridM]

7 hours ago, VioletMarx said:

Ugh, no episode this week? WTF.

In the meantime, I need at least two, preferably three, of the following questions to be answered this season. I feel like we're treading water a bit and if we have to wait til season 3 for all this to be revealed, I might be out:

1. Where is wilderness baby?

2. Does Jeff know about wilderness baby?

3. How did they get rescued?

4. Where is Ben?

Those are in order of how much I want the answers.

Anyone else?

 

 

 

I assume wilderness baby is going to be stillborn, or if it’s born alive, certainly won’t live long. I think we’ll see that play out this season. I assume Jeff knows about the baby because he’s read Shauna’s diary. I doubt we’ll see the rescue this season. 

[peachmangosteen]

13 hours ago, Anela said:

It seemed like the writers were referring to the girls as being unreliable narrators, a lot this season, so that’s another reason I just decided to just watch, and see what happens.

Yea, they have mentioned unreliable narrators a lot. I find that sort of annoying because it means we can never actually believe anything lol.

[Brn2bwild]

Based on the lack of preview, I wonder if Lottie will attempt to bring the baby back to life (with a desperate Shauna's approval) through sacrifice.

[peachmangosteen]

1 hour ago, Brn2bwild said:

Based on the lack of preview, I wonder if Lottie will attempt to bring the baby back to life (with a desperate Shauna's approval) through sacrifice.

Fuck lol. That would be brutal.

[BitterApple]

1 hour ago, Brn2bwild said:

Based on the lack of preview, I wonder if Lottie will attempt to bring the baby back to life (with a desperate Shauna's approval) through sacrifice.

That would be crazy. Coach Ben might be on the chopping block. In terms of contribution to the group, he's in last place. 

[AstridM]

1 hour ago, BitterApple said:

That would be crazy. Coach Ben might be on the chopping block. In terms of contribution to the group, he's in last place. 

He’s very sick, and disabled as well. 

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, BitterApple said:

That would be crazy. Coach Ben might be on the chopping block. In terms of contribution to the group, he's in last place. 

 

30 minutes ago, AstridM said:

He’s very sick, and disabled as well. 

Mild spoilers:

Spoiler

Looks like he's doing stuff in the next ep, and trying on a new attitude since he's shaving.

 

[Anela]

I’ve seen speculation that this could all be like shutter island, or that movie with John cusack in the motel. I’m going to freak if that’s the case. I’d prefer them to go supernatural. 

Edited May 22, 2023 by Anela

[peachmangosteen]

I'm not familiar with those movies. 

I am seeing a lot of spec that Natalie will die in the finale and the logic does make sense. I think that might get me to quit. Natalie is the only adult survivor that I really care about tbh.

[BitterApple]

10 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I'm not familiar with those movies. 

I am seeing a lot of spec that Natalie will die in the finale and the logic does make sense. I think that might get me to quit. Natalie is the only adult survivor that I really care about tbh.

Shutter Island and Identity are amazing movies. Spoiler Alert:

Spoiler

it turns out the entire plot of each never happened and it was all in the main character's head. 

I've read the theories that Adult Nat might die and as much as I hate it, I can see it. She cheated death as the original Queen drawer and let Javi go in her place. Dying in the present day to save her friends completes her circle and serves to atone for past mistakes. I also think she believes she has nothing to live for now that Travis is gone. 

[AstridM]

46 minutes ago, Anela said:

I’ve seen speculation that this could all be like shutter island, or that movie with John cusack in the motel. I’m going to freak if that’s the case. I’d prefer them to go supernatural. 

I doubt that very much. 

42 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I'm not familiar with those movies. 

I am seeing a lot of spec that Natalie will die in the finale and the logic does make sense. I think that might get me to quit. Natalie is the only adult survivor that I really care about tbh.

Same. She is the only one truly worth anything, lol. 

[peachmangosteen]

I mean honestly she really feels like the only one who wasn't already kind of a shit person even before the crash. Maybe Akilah or some of the extras, we don't know enough about any of them to know really.

[Anela]

Nat is my favourite, I feel the same way. 
 

[peachmangosteen]

I'd be upset if Shauna died but literally only because it'd mean Jeff would be gone lol. But there's no way in hell they'd let go of Melanie so Shauna is safe.

[Anela]

2 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I'd be upset if Shauna died but literally only because it'd mean Jeff would be gone lol. But there's no way in hell they'd let go of Melanie so Shauna is safe.

I don’t want any of them to die, it’s probably a misdirect, but with the way shows usually go, nat would die in the present, trying to save someone else. 

[BitterApple]

Jasmin Savoy Brown did an interview and said some really messed up stuff happens in both timelines in the finale. I'm kind of freaking out right now. I mean, last episode we watched the most innocent member of the group drown while everyone stood by and watched. It's going to be even worse than that?!!! 

[Niuxita]

21 hours ago, Anela said:

I don’t want any of them to die

I agree, I don't want any of them to die, either. I was really enjoying going from 4 original main female characters in the adult timeline to 6 this season, and I thought there was still stuff left to mine from their dynamic now that they've reunited and are actually talking about things, so I'll be really disappointed if that happens. At least it will make the thousand-year wait until season 3 less excruciating, lol.

(That said, if one of them does die, I agree that it makes storytelling sense for it to be Natalie. :/)

[Anela]

Tawny apparently said that someone was *this* close to guessing what happens, but everyone who responded, said that it would never happen. I wonder if that could simply be  the return to the woods (different woods), and hunting someone. I thought it was ridiculous, the idea of them hunting someone again.

Oh, except others had that same idea. They wanted them to return to the cabin, and kill someone. 

Edited May 23, 2023 by Anela

[BitterApple]

2 hours ago, Anela said:

Tawny apparently said that someone was *this* close to guessing what happens, but everyone who responded, said that it would never happen. I wonder if that could simply be  the return to the woods (different woods), and hunting someone. I thought it was ridiculous, the idea of them hunting someone again.

Oh, except others had that same idea. They wanted them to return to the cabin, and kill someone. 

Very interesting. The one theory I see consistently getting shot down is the adult women return to the wilderness. I think it's something along those lines. 

[MBayGal]

On 5/22/2023 at 2:38 PM, Anela said:

I’ve seen speculation that this could all be like shutter island, or that movie with John cusack in the motel. I’m going to freak if that’s the case. I’d prefer them to go supernatural. 

I was not familiar with those two movies, but having read how they turned out, I will be majorly pissed if that is the resolution of this series!!!

[JenE4]

9 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Very interesting. The one theory I see consistently getting shot down is the adult women return to the wilderness. I think it's something along those lines. 

Yeah, also put me down for a Lost redux “ We have to go back.” Maybe not next week, but with 5 seasons planned I don’t think they have enough material to work with in these two timelines/locations. I think at some point it will switch and we’ll see the rescued teen girls back home and the adult women back in the wilderness to challenge either their psychological demons and/or the actual wilderness demon spirit.

[peachmangosteen]

It seems like whatever Tawny was talking about was what the resolution of this current season is though so I don't think it's going back just because I don't think they'd do that this soon.

[snarts]

On 5/23/2023 at 7:00 PM, Anela said:

Tawny apparently said that someone was *this* close to guessing what happens, but everyone who responded, said that it would never happen. I wonder if that could simply be  the return to the woods (different woods), and hunting someone. I thought it was ridiculous, the idea of them hunting someone again.

Oh, except others had that same idea. They wanted them to return to the cabin, and kill someone. 

I suggested that they'd return to the woods and pit girl would be Callie. Everyone poo pooed it as preposterous so here it is again....

[Anela]

19 minutes ago, snarts said:

I suggested that they'd return to the woods and pit girl would be Callie. Everyone poo pooed it as preposterous so here it is again....

Returning for healing is one thing. I didn't expect them to hunt someone again. I still think that bit is ridiculous. They jump right into "someone needs to die." 

I don't think Shauna would let anyone hunt Callie. She'd kill them all first. 

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, snarts said:

I suggested that they'd return to the woods and pit girl would be Callie. Everyone poo pooed it as preposterous so here it is again....

 

1 hour ago, Anela said:

Returning for healing is one thing. I didn't expect them to hunt someone again. I still think that bit is ridiculous. They jump right into "someone needs to die." 

I don't think Shauna would let anyone hunt Callie. She'd kill them all first. 

And I thought they established that opening scene is happening in the 1990s timeline, along with the other scenes. I mean, the idea that smebody would have dug out the same pink converses and naked coed tee-shirt to hunt Callie is unlikely.

[AstridM]

3 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

 

And I thought they established that opening scene is happening in the 1990s timeline, along with the other scenes. I mean, the idea that smebody would have dug out the same pink converses and naked coed tee-shirt to hunt Callie is unlikely.

Yes, they did establish that. 

[Tatum]

19 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

 

And I thought they established that opening scene is happening in the 1990s timeline, along with the other scenes. I mean, the idea that smebody would have dug out the same pink converses and naked coed tee-shirt to hunt Callie is unlikely.

Yes, the writers said that would have been clever, but Pit Girl happened in the same timeline as the eating ceremony where Misty takes off her mask.

 

Since one was the opening scene of the series and the other appears to be a flashback Natalie is having at rehab, I didn't think they had to be related, but then I remembered they juxtapose multiple scenes at the end of the series opener and the writers confirmed they are all taking place at the original timeline.