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Hive Mind: Speculation

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Here's your topic for putting clues together over multiple episodes and putting forth your speculation, based on what's been aired (including previews and promotion by Showtime). 

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Thanks, Pallas!

I'm gonna talk about promos potentially revealing a character's fate, so look away if you don't want to see that stuff!

In the Autostraddle recap of episode 7, the author pointed out that in the pilot, one of the masked figures is wearing the shirt Van wore in this episode (she included screenshots). Additionally, someone in the comments posted a screenshot from the Official Trailer #2 of Van in a not-yet-aired scene (image here). Unless more of that shirt exist (or someone took it off Van's dead body), and unless that unaired scene is a dream sequence or something, it looks like Van could survive that wolf attack.

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Potentially there could be scenes in the promo that don't end up in the actual eps. It's very annoying. And I also think it's certainly possible someone could take Van's shirt just because why not, she wouldn't need it anymore lol. 

I'm still 50/50 on whether she's dead/will die shortly or not.

ETA: Wait, I actually looked at the promo image and yea that has to be later and Van is there so Van definitely lives. I like how in the promo the side of her face that got mauled is obscured lol.

I'm just surprised they haven't killed anyone yet. Maybe they're saving it for the finale.

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1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

 

I'm just surprised they haven't killed anyone yet. Maybe they're saving it for the finale.

One prediction I had is that Van is so mangled, Tai or Misty mercy-kill her to put her out of her misery, and that's what starts the chain of secrets. I'm trying to figure out how they're going to get her back to the cabin. I can't imagine she's in any shape to walk. I know they made a stretcher for Coach Scott, but there were also 18 people to take turns carrying. Four girls transporting one an entire day's hike would be incredibly strenuous. 

It seems like there's been so many fake-outs and misdirects with regards to the promo shots, that anything is still possible. Post-attack Van could be Tai's dream. I'm still 50/50 on dead vs. alive.

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There are a couple new (at least new to me lol) clips in this vid, most notably Shauna pulling a knife on Adam, which I'm assuming will take place in the next ep since they showed her at his house in the promo.

Also, I watched the promo for the next ep again just to confirm that it is indeed the closet at Shauna/Jeff's house that Shauna is in when she finds the glitter. I'm wondering if perhaps she thinks it's from Adam since he hid in there and that's why she goes to his house and says she 'doesn't know anything about [him]' and pulls a knife on him, but it's not actually him and it's Jeff.

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At the 1:08 mark, there is a scene of a bewildered Shauna wearing what appears to be a wreath in her hair- are the rituals starting?

 

ETA: I just noticed that in the interview clips with the young actress- she has blue eyes. I am guessing she wears contacts then to match Melanie Lynskey?

Edited by Tatum
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50 minutes ago, Tatum said:

At the 1:08 mark, there is a scene of a bewildered Shauna wearing what appears to be a wreath in her hair- are the rituals starting?

Yea, it looks to be part of the scene from the trailer that shows Van as well. I'm really interested to see what it's all about because it seems kinda early for them to be getting ritual-y plus Van is there. 

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Ok, anyone else think that Jackie is still alive and is behind a lot of what’s going on? 
She could be making Jeff blackmail the girls because she needs money. Making him feel guilty for cheating on her.

Also in the scene at the rave, Shauna sees Callie walk by dressed in the yellowjackets uniform and calls out “Jackie?”. If she was sure she was 100% dead, why would she say that? 
Did they ever recover an actual dead body of Jackie? Her parents have a brunch every year on her birthday? With no mention of going to a gravesite or having cremated ashes somewhere? And her bedroom is still the same, as if they are waiting for her to possibly show up one day? 
And she didn’t really seem to get along with any of her teammates.

If Javi read the journal and told Jackie about it and Adam is really Javi, then Jackie could’ve planned the whole Javi pretending to be Adam thing. 
The Adam thing is def a set up. The whole car accident and then immediately being attracted to Shauna thing doesn’t just happen.  Adam is def in on something 

That would also explain the Travis bank account thing. Jackie and Javi working together to get money. 
Well, i don’t know, lol. I think Jackie is alive. 

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I think any and all theories are possible. The dialogue and references to Jackie in the present are deliberately (and frustratingly) vague. However, everyone talks about her like she hasn't been around in a while, so it's possible she was part of the initial rescue, but died in the years after the crash. I imagine the mental/physical toll of 19 months in the wilderness messed these girls up for a long time. 

One suggestion I saw on Reddit, which I agree with, is keeping Ella Purnell as adult Jackie and using makeup to age her. If Jackie being alive in 2021 is an upcoming bombshell, then it's going to be spoiled if word leaks out that they cast a new actress. Ella has such distinctive features, it's not like they could play it off as the middle-aged actress being one of the other  teammates. 

Things I'm hoping they wrap up by the finale:

1. Identity and intentions of the blackmailer.

2. What's going on with Jeff and the mysterious Bianca. Standard marital affair or something entirely different?

3. The Adam mystery. Is he Javi? Was he hired by someone else to manipulate Shauna?

4. Who killed Travis and why? Is Jessica being honest when she said he refused to talk? Also, who cleaned out his account? I agree Javi would be the logical choice (assuming he's even alive, of course).

Edited by BitterApple
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14 minutes ago, Anela said:

 

Omg, so is Melanie saying none of our theories are right?! I am going to fall out if the Adam reveal is something that was right in front of our noses and we missed it.

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1 minute ago, BitterApple said:

Omg, so is Melanie saying none of our theories are right?! I am going to fall out if the Adam reveal is something that was right in front of our noses and we missed it.

I know that she reads reddit. I don't know if she reads this board. I still wonder if Adam was hired by her husband. Has that been mentioned on reddit? 

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So i was thinking that —and I’m not sure how old Adam is supposed to be—but it’s been 25 years since the accident—could Adam be someone’s son?? Like Jackie’s son??

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15 minutes ago, Anela said:

I know that she reads reddit. I don't know if she reads this board. I still wonder if Adam was hired by her husband. Has that been mentioned on reddit? 

I've seen an odd mention that Jeff and Adam may be working together, but it hasn't been one of the more dominant theories. Mostly it's been Adam = Javi. 

Just now, Inga said:

So i was thinking that —and I’m not sure how old Adam is supposed to be—but it’s been 25 years since the accident—could Adam be someone’s son?? Like Jackie’s son??

To me, the actor looks a little older than mid-20s, but that doesn't mean anything. They've never actually noted Adam's age on the show, so it's entirely possible he's an offspring of one of the survivors. 

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There's a scene in the trailer for the next episode that looks like a cross between A Midsommer's Night Dream and The Secret History by Donna Tartt.

Everyone was reading that paperback in 1996 even though it was published in 1992. If you haven't read it yet, go right now. You won't regret it.

Adam said he graduated high School in 2004. If he's 17-18 at graduation, that means he was born 1987/1986. So no child of anyone in the crash. It also makes him about 34 in the present day.

I'm going to guess an illegitimate son of Coach Martinez. Maybe he missed out on settlement money.

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16 minutes ago, WaltersHair said:

The Secret History by Donna Tartt.

 

I started that book, but didn't finish it. 

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11 hours ago, BitterApple said:

I've seen an odd mention that Jeff and Adam may be working together, but it hasn't been one of the more dominant theories. Mostly it's been Adam = Javi. 

To me, the actor looks a little older than mid-20s, but that doesn't mean anything. They've never actually noted Adam's age on the show, so it's entirely possible he's an offspring of one of the survivors. 

I thought early 30s, but it wouldn't be a hard sell to age him up/down a few years from that.  But if he was the son of one of the girls, he could only be about 24-25, which I think is a bit of a stretch.

9 hours ago, WaltersHair said:

Adam said he graduated high School in 2004. If he's 17-18 at graduation, that means he was born 1987/1986. So no child of anyone in the crash. It also makes him about 34 in the present day.

So what ten year old was running around in 1996 that would have a stake in the crash? ...Not sure how to take "Surprised, but not surprised" comment from Melanie Lynksey...does that mean it's obvious, or that's not obvious? I mean, the son of another main character might slot in, but it's not one I think would be easy to guess. And it's not like any of the siblings of these girls have been introduced.

 

For some reason, I am just really stuck on Jackie being alive in 2021. The show has given nothing to think this is the case, but still. I think it's pretty clear she is at least presumed dead by her parents. They could have cast her adult counterpart under a different name, like Once Upon a Time used to do. Or she could be dead and I could be way off base. I like the theory that Jackie is behind it all, or in on it with Jeff, although I am not sure how much sense that really makes. Does it still appear that Shauna was not targeted for blackmail, only Nat and Taissa? If Shauna goes so out of way to hide her contact with Taissa, it might not have occurred to Jeff that Shauna would find out.

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10 hours ago, WaltersHair said:

I'm going to guess an illegitimate son of Coach Martinez. Maybe he missed out on settlement money.

There might be something to this. Remember, they made a point of showing a very strained goodbye between the coach and his wife. Also, bringing along the kids on a trip like this is kind of bizarre. Maybe they just wanted to check out Seattle, but they wouldn't be able to wander around by themselves and neither seemed too interested in watching the soccer team or befriending the players. Why were Javi and Travis there? Even if Mom had to go somewhere herself that week, Travis would have been old enough to stay home alone.

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So I just saw a comment on Reddit:

Martinez - "ez" = Martin. Like I said, right in front of our noses, lol. I don't think Adam is Javi, but he most definitely could be a half-brother or even a full brother who just didn't make the trip. 

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Just going by looks Adam could be related to Lottie, though they haven’t shown younger siblings for her. We know her parents are wealthy, so I imagine a younger brother would have resources and free time to be a “starving artist” and stalk Shauna.

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Adam being a Martinez is a great theory. It kinda fits with the Javi spec while also making Shauna not seem like a total moron for not recognizing him.

Do we think he stole the diary when he was hiding in the closet? I think that’s a possibility and is part of why I’m still stuck on him being Javi because maybe the password to the safe is related to the time in the woods and Javi could know about that. But if it’s another Martinez brother then maybe Travis (or Javi if he lived) could have told him about it.

Or Jackie, if she really is alive and behind the blackmail. I do like the idea of Jackie being alive and the fact that the actress is listed third in the opening credits makes me feel like she should be a bigger character than she has been.

That got me thinking, which actors are listed in the opening credits? 

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Ella Purnell is the face on the official promo poster, so Jackie must play a significant part in the overall plot. I don't know if she's alive in 2021, but I'm assuming she makes it most of the way until the rescue. 

With regards to the safe and glitter, I feel like we're being thrown so many red herrings:

Broke ass Jeff is shopping at Saks days after the blackmail debacle. He'd also be able to easily identify the bag Shauna stashed the money in.

Adam was in the closet, so his clothes could've shed the glitter. Shauna discovers her journals are missing, but how often does she check the safe? Could Jeff or Callie have taken them without her knowing?

Third possibility, but what if it was Tai? As dysfunctional as the ladies' dynamics are, they're all fiercely protective of each other. What if Tai realized Shauna is being played by Adam and took the journals so they wouldn't end up in the wrong hands? Longshot, I know, but that safe didn't look hard to break into, and Tai could've guessed the passcode. 

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Hopefully the big twist isn’t that Adam truly is just a random guy that Shauna rear ended, with no connection to 1996 crash and no hidden agenda beyond getting into Shauna’s pants. 
 

I don’t know why Adam, if he was the blackmailer, would target Shauna to get close to but only actually threaten Taissa, Misty (she got postcards right?), and Nat. And I still can’t figure out why Nat would cough up the blackmail money either. They don’t even know what the blackmailer knows or what he/she can prove. 
 

Jeff makes the most sense but he also seems so simple and kind of lazy in general.  I am hoping for a vengeful Jackie, unrealistic as that may be. 

 

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15 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Ella Purnell is the face on the official promo poster,

Thanks for this! I’ve been trying to figure out who that was the whole time and finally just settled on it just being a model or something that isn’t even in the show lol. She just doesn’t look like Jackie to me at all.

I just wondered if maybe Jeff was able to buy the expensive dress because of whatever was going on with the woman he saw at the hotel but like that’s just gonna be too much. I really think Jeff is the blackmailer, it’s kind of just the simplest and most logical explanation.

He does seem to dumb to pull it off though so maybe it’s him and Adam or him and Jackie.  

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They found guns, ammo, rotten canned food and porn in the cabin, but no map? I hope it wasn't underneath a seat in the plane, or in some compartment that was missed. Why would Dead Guy not have any maps if the place were truly in the middle of nowhere? It's possible that he flew the route many times and didn't need one after awhile but you'd think he would still have one in case he had to alter course and got lost. Another possibility is that the cabin isn't that far from civilization at all, like comically close to some dwellings. That would be quite a twist, if they all descended into madness, human sacrifice and cannibalism, only to be 20 miles from civilization? Kind-of like the movie

Spoiler

The Village

. They could have crashed on federally protected land in a no-fly zone.

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Wouldn't that be a kick in the teeth if the last image of the season was a drone shot, and it turns out there's a town a hundred miles to the east or west. IIRC, that was the case in the Andes mountains crash, and they just walked in the wrong direction. 

One thing that surprised me is you'd think someone with Coach Ben's hunting experience would know civilization is found along water sources. He should've told Tai's group that if they found a river, stick to it and see where it leads. I'm also confused as to why they aren't scouting the perimeter of the lake to see where the outlets are. 

 

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13 hours ago, WaltersHair said:

There's a scene in the trailer for the next episode that looks like a cross between A Midsommer's Night Dream and The Secret History by Donna Tartt.

Everyone was reading that paperback in 1996 even though it was published in 1992. If you haven't read it yet, go right now. You won't regret it.

Adam said he graduated high School in 2004. If he's 17-18 at graduation, that means he was born 1987/1986. So no child of anyone in the crash. It also makes him about 34 in the present day.

I'm going to guess an illegitimate son of Coach Martinez. Maybe he missed out on settlement money.

I read that, but earlier than 1996. Who is “everyone?” 

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3 hours ago, Tatum said:

There might be something to this. Remember, they made a point of showing a very strained goodbye between the coach and his wife. Also, bringing along the kids on a trip like this is kind of bizarre. Maybe they just wanted to check out Seattle, but they wouldn't be able to wander around by themselves and neither seemed too interested in watching the soccer team or befriending the players. Why were Javi and Travis there? Even if Mom had to go somewhere herself that week, Travis would have been old enough to stay home alone.

Why wouldn’t they have been allowed to wander around by themselves? Wasn’t Travis at least 17? Back in my day kids went on spring breaks, etc without parents or guardians. It makes perfect sense to me that they wanted to tag along and check out Seattle and the west coast.

Edited by Cinnabon

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46 minutes ago, LilaFowler said:

They found guns, ammo, rotten canned food and porn in the cabin, but no map? I hope it wasn't underneath a seat in the plane, or in some compartment that was missed. Why would Dead Guy not have any maps if the place were truly in the middle of nowhere? It's possible that he flew the route many times and didn't need one after awhile but you'd think he would still have one in case he had to alter course and got lost. Another possibility is that the cabin isn't that far from civilization at all, like comically close to some dwellings. That would be quite a twist, if they all descended into madness, human sacrifice and cannibalism, only to be 20 miles from civilization? Kind-of like the movie

  Hide contents

The Village

. They could have crashed on federally protected land in a no-fly zone.

I don’t know if pilots still used paper maps for navigation in 1996. I know all GPS is electronic now. My ex is a pilot, so I may ask him. Even if Laura Lee had made it further, I was anticipating that she might crash right into another plane without real navigation and monitoring from air traffic control.

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Ask him if he keeps a parachute onboard for himself when he flies! I have been skydiving a couple of times and I've noticed that the pilots on those tiny planes always wear them. Laura Lee might have felt more comfortable throwing herself out of a burning plane if she had one (not that it would necessarily save her from that low altitude). Plus, I would think that, while it might be possible for her to get the plane off the ground and fly it for some time, how did she intend to land it? Spotting some dwellings below and then ditching might have been her only chance.

Anyway, we can add parachute to the list of things that Dead Guy didn't have with him at the end.

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10 minutes ago, LilaFowler said:

Ask him if he keeps a parachute onboard for himself when he flies! I have been skydiving a couple of times and I've noticed that the pilots on those tiny planes always wear them. Laura Lee might have felt more comfortable throwing herself out of a burning plane if she had one (not that it would necessarily save her from that low altitude). Plus, I would think that, while it might be possible for her to get the plane off the ground and fly it for some time, how did she intend to land it? Spotting some dwellings below and then ditching might have been her only chance.

Anyway, we can add parachute to the list of things that Dead Guy didn't have with him at the end.

I don’t remember him having a parachute when I flew with him but that’s something else I’ll ask. And yes, I was also wondering how she expected to be able to land the plane had she gotten that far. Reading the manual isn’t enough to teach those skills. Not to mention you need to know how to find a safe place to land.

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55 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

And yes, I was also wondering how she expected to be able to land the plane had she gotten that far.

Laura Lee probably felt that God was her co-pilot 😁

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26 minutes ago, Broderbits said:

Laura Lee probably felt that God was her co-pilot 😁

She'd have been better off with God than she was with Leonard as her co-pilot.

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So…going by Nat and coach’s talk- are we to infer that Travis and Javi’s dad was checking out their boobs, or was she just noting that a young guy wasn’t being creepy? 

Also would/should there have been an adult female chaperone with the team? This is way before “me too”, but I didn’t play sports and have no idea how that works.

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Doesn't have to be the coach. We used to notice all the student teachers who looked down our shirts.

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1 hour ago, Ailianna said:

Doesn't have to be the coach. We used to notice all the student teachers who looked down our shirts.

And most men, in general. I am well endowed so it’s almost constant.

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10 hours ago, Tatum said:

Hopefully the big twist isn’t that Adam truly is just a random guy that Shauna rear ended, with no connection to 1996 crash and no hidden agenda beyond getting into Shauna’s pants. 
 


 

This is what I thought she was implying. "Nobody thought this hot guy could be attracted to Shauna. Joke's on you!" 

10 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

Thanks for this! I’ve been trying to figure out who that was the whole time and finally just settled on it just being a model or something that isn’t even in the show lol. She just doesn’t look like Jackie to me at all.

I just wondered if maybe Jeff was able to buy the expensive dress because of whatever was going on with the woman he saw at the hotel but like that’s just gonna be too much. I really think Jeff is the blackmailer, it’s kind of just the simplest and most logical explanation.

He does seem to dumb to pull it off though so maybe it’s him and Adam or him and Jackie.  

I wondered if he went behind her back, and accepted the college money for their daughter. 

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What do we make of Nat telling Travis that the deck of cards that he had didn't have any queens? Couldn't be random, it's too strange.

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9 hours ago, Anela said:

I wondered if he went behind her back, and accepted the college money for their daughter. 

Oooh, that's good spec. I still feel like that's too easy though. I just think Jeff has to be the blackmailer. It does seem almost too obvious but like at this point it's gonna be hard to sell it being someone else imo.

7 hours ago, LilaFowler said:

What do we make of Nat telling Travis that the deck of cards that he had didn't have any queens? Couldn't be random, it's too strange.

I didn't even think anything of it. I just assumed it was plane guy's deck and after time he just lost some cards. But yea, it is quite a coincidence it was all the queens.

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11 hours ago, LilaFowler said:

What do we make of Nat telling Travis that the deck of cards that he had didn't have any queens? Couldn't be random, it's too strange.

Foreshadowing that Coach is going to die?

Foreshadowing that the Antler Queen is going to die?

Foreshadowing that the de facto leader of the group, Jackie, is going to die?

I'm trying to think of a fourth "queen" but I'm out, ha. Maybe it was Laura Lee exploding in the plane.

Edited by DoubleUTeeEff
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Maybe it’s just an odd deck of cards that’s missing queens? 

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13 hours ago, Anela said:

This is what I thought she was implying. "Nobody thought this hot guy could be attracted to Shauna. Joke's on you!" 

I wondered if he went behind her back, and accepted the college money for their daughter. 

Yeah, I just remembered that Callie pretty much said that as well during a Halloween episode. Ouch.

I am not sure they would have given the money to Jeff after he admitted to screwing around on Jackie in high school, but I'd be impressed he had the balls to go back and ask. I wonder if maybe he is doing some kind of money laundering or something through his furniture company. Something illegal that he's hiding from Shauna but not involving an affair.

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Someone in the ep thread was talking about how nicely Jeff greeted Tai and now I'm just questioning him being the blackmailer. Unless he's a really good actor or sociopathic, he did seem way too cool there if he's a) blackmailing her and b) punched her in the face. 

Yet I just don't think it's Adam. I feel like he's still a red herring.

But with the glitter being in the closet those 2 and Callie are pretty much the only possible suspects.

Dammit, we better at least find out who the blackmailer is and what Adam's deal is by the finale or I'm gonna lose my mind!

I suspect those are the only 2 answers we will get and then maybe a cliffhanger of another adult survivor.

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I know it's unlikely - though, with this show, who knows?! - but I'd love if the season ended on a shot of a grown up, scarred Van. Mostly because I've liked Liv Hewson since I first saw them in Dramaworld and want to keep them around for next season, but also because I think Van would be interesting to see as an adult. 

I now think Simone is genuine and her previous reactions were the Black woman Spidey-tingle of something is up but can't put her finger on it. She seems sincere in wanting to get help for Sammy and Tai, but she's missing huge chunks of info because Sammy and Tai are keeping secrets (and disassociating.)

I think I'm firmly in the no supernatural camp, for now. However, it's not really if there is supernatural stuff happening, it's if the survivors believe there's supernatural stuff happening. What did Travis say Natalie was right about? Something they must have discussed at some point if he felt the need to write it down. And Nat said Travis didn't believe any of that shit, implying she didn't either, so I don't think it was the symbols and candle stuff Travis was referring to.

Anyhoo, when the smoke monster appears next week and kills Van, I'll have to reevaluate my thinking, lol. 

 

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And Nat said Travis didn't believe any of that shit, implying she didn't either, so I don't think it was the symbols and candle stuff Travis was referring to.

Oh I thought it implied she DID believe, like that was big issue between them, I also see it as the big motivator for Natalie: fear not that people will know she killed and ate her friend (s),  but that The Wood Witch Triangle made her do it and now it's not just haunting her past but right in the present trying to fuck with her again. It doesn't materially matter to me if it actually is a Wood Witch Triangle, though again I'd really prefer if it was (given how often we are shown/told that there really IS nothing to hunt, and the lack of being found for 19 months, and every attempt to leave is thwarted), but that most of them start to believe it is down to the trauma of it all. 

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18 minutes ago, blixie said:

Oh I thought it implied she DID believe, like that was big issue between them

Ahhhh, that would make more sense! I think Nat's acerbic attitude made me take it the other way.

But Nat also firmly believes Travis was murdered, presumably by a human as she hasn't mentioned a supernatural entity and someone drained his bank account, so hmmm, maybe a cult formed and some members brought it back to Jersey when they were rescued?? IDK, so many questions and so few minutes left to get answers!

Edited by calliope1975
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Why a yellow dress that is obviously too small for a High School Class Reunion? Humiliation?

ETA: I realize it might be a call back to a yellowjacket, but the team uniforms were blue with touches of yellow.

Edited by WaltersHair
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11 hours ago, Tatum said:

Yeah, I just remembered that Callie pretty much said that as well during a Halloween episode. Ouch.

I am not sure they would have given the money to Jeff after he admitted to screwing around on Jackie in high school, but I'd be impressed he had the balls to go back and ask. I wonder if maybe he is doing some kind of money laundering or something through his furniture company. Something illegal that he's hiding from Shauna but not involving an affair.

I'd forgotten that he admitted that. I'm just not sure that he would be dumb enough to get that money from the three of them, and then turn around and buy her something expensive. Unless he didn't know that his wife knows about the blackmail. I haven't been re-watching, but she said that she didn't receive a postcard. He would recognize his own bag, though. Ah, my head hurts. 

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Ah some people are really showing they never had a mom obsessed with Color Me Beautiful because actually that shade of yellow is perfect for Lynskie's coloring. Now the style I couldn't discern and I thought it looked like a 70's crocheted halter (which obviously no, but it made me laugh at the though), but someone said it was a bandage dress? IDK I think it was just classic Jeff move of trying to be excited and supportive, but saying and doing it mostly wrong. Especially if he really IS the blackmailer and that really is his way out of whatever real financial jam he's in at the furniture store. And that would mean he knows all this supposedly terrible things Shauna did and still seems to genuinely love her, or at least didn't dump her the second he got the 50K?  So to me it's still a tossup between Maybe Adam-Javi and him and the bitch daughter. The daughter I could see extorting her moms friends and still sticking around, but I also just can't believe her sullen and shallow daughter had the kind of discipline to carry the whole thing out. I also wonder if her journals actually included the Wood Witch imagery for her to be able to put it on the postcard. I think ultimately I really do want it to be one of the other survivors so we can get that as kind of double reveal ending to S1. 

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