S06.E22: Reunion Part 2

[Trooper York]

The reason why Carole will not sue Aviva is that you can't sue someone for libel or slander if what they said was true. At least I think that is the law. I am not a lawyer so maybe someone else can speak to that point..

 

Carole would not want to go through discovery. Just sayn'

[shoegal]

The reason why Carole will not sue Aviva is that you can't sue someone for libel or slander if what they said was true. At least I think that is the law. I am not a lawyer so maybe someone else can speak to that point..

Carole would not want to go through discovery. Just sayn'

Or, because you get sued by Bravo/NBC for breach of contract. Of course, Aviva is banking on this perception which is why she brought it up at the reunion. Aviva knows she's insulated by the contracts. Edited August 10, 2014 by shoegal

[LotusFlower]

 I didn't specify which weeks she didn't blog - I would hope she'd take a break during vacation - but there were several, non-consecutive weeks in which she didn't.  I'm surprised the other Housewives who are so vested in everyone doing equal work didn't storm the castle.

The HW's have zero obligation to submit a blog. Zero. It's not part of their contracts.

[Trooper York]

Well I think it is fine if she didn't submit a blog every week. People deserve to take a vacation.

 

Even ghost writers. 

[Midnight Cheese]

The reason why Carole will not sue Aviva is that you can't sue someone for libel or slander if what they said was true. At least I think that is the law. I am not a lawyer so maybe someone else can speak to that point..

 

Carole would not want to go through discovery. Just sayn'

 

And there you have it.  All Aviva had to do was insist in her unhinged way that a lie was truth and people believe it.  Something that best we know was never rumored or hinted at about Carole becomes factual.  People believe it.  Carole has to leave the show (she would have to leave to sue Aviva if the contracts absolutely preclude HW-on-HW suits), leave whatever steady amount of money per season comes with the territory to take on a bitch with money she never earned about her crazypants claim.  Carole quoted a conversation she had with Sue Mengers when she was deciding on whether to do RHONY and said Mengers replied, 'You're a single girl with bills, who are you to turn down work?'  But now she's obliged to sully herself over a rumor that never existed on any real, Googlable (I'm using that as a word, yessir) scale and press a suit that Aviva can defend with Dirty Daddy and Reid's scratch.  And she should do it now, on the 15th anniversary of Anthony/Carolyn/JFK's deaths, instead of seeing if the development deal goes somewhere or working on a new book or just living her life and dealing with the memorials that are probably happening right now, because somehow litigation isn't a relentless mind-consuming ass-ache even if you're totally in the right. 

 

Carole can't win.  Ignoring Aviva is somehow admitting that Aviva's probable lie is true.  Going all-in on Aviva is somehow falling into Aviva's clever trap and giving her attention, and means Carole should leave the show because she can't both write and be a Housewife. 

 

I hate what Aviva did  so much.  I hate to see people try to completely destroy someone else for any reason, let alone for petty bullshit reasons.  She IS nothing and it has nothing to do with her SAHM status or having had children or anything else.  There's no there there besides viciousness and spoiled-bitch behavior. 

Edited August 10, 2014 by Midnight Cheese

[copacabana]

Midnight Cheese -- Love you but Carole has already won. 

 

Aviva has pathological tendencies and these have been on full blast since last year really. 

 

I think that Andy gave Carole good counsel when he apparently told her to relax and trust the audience. 

 

Very few people with an ounce of sense are going to buy the Aviva claims and I would wager they are certainly not going to go there and either buy or not buy a book, written by either. 

 

Aviva has completely lost in all of this -- and she up'd the stakes by going there with To Kill A Mockingbird.  Folks just don't go for that kind of thing.  And, if they do, I wouldn't trust them to put their money where their craziness is. 

 

That being said, Carole would be wise perhaps to stick to memoirs -- And maybe write a very good one about her experiences on this show. 

 

Cheers -- love you. 

Edited August 10, 2014 by copacabana

[jelliebean]

The reason why Carole will not sue Aviva is that you can't sue someone for libel or slander if what they said was true. At least I think that is the law. I am not a lawyer so maybe someone else can speak to that point..

 

Carole would not want to go through discovery. Just sayn'

You can sue someone for libel or slander if what they said was true. You would most likely lose but you can do it. I don't think this is the case with Carole.

[jelliebean]

 

I hate what Aviva did  so much.  I hate to see people try to completely destroy someone else for any reason, let alone for petty bullshit reasons.  She IS nothing and it has nothing to do with her SAHM status or having had children or anything else.  There's no there there besides viciousness and spoiled-bitch behavior. 

I hate what she did too. It is interesting to see how she is enabled by her husband, her ex-husband and her father. She has no one to tether to reality. I pity her. She is a bitter woman spoiled by people that perpetuate her perception that she is a victim of happenstance. A dose of Heather would serve her well.

[shoegal]

Carole writing a book about her experience on this show is my dream. I could live with her not returning (or even the show not returning) in order for this to happen.

[MatildaMoody]

 

The reason why Carole will not sue Aviva is that you can't sue someone for libel or slander if what they said was true.

Carol can't sue Aviva because it is in her contract. Even if she quits the show or Aviva is no longer on the show, Carole would then be bringing people from her publishing company into the suit to prove her case. Which means that she would be burning the bridges of the people that she has not only worked with, but has befriended over the years. Carole trying to sue would put her in a much worse place than just ignoring Aviva's lies about her character and work. She can't win no matter what happens there.

 

 

And yet, most every one of Carole's blog posts, written in her own hand, she mentions Aviva.  Also, interesting in my perusal of Carole's blogs, she wrote far fewer than her cast mates.  She skipped several weeks.  Was Writer Girl having writer's block?  And why didn't the other Housewives take her to task for not performing on the same level that they are expected to perform.

Since the Housewives aren't obliged to blog about the episodes- as far as I know it is not a part of their contracts- I'm not sure of your point. For one thing, the only time that Carole discusses Aviva in blogs was when Aviva talked about Carole's career, or when another HW brought something up about Aviva. Since the point of the blogs is to comment on the show, I'm not sure how Carole is somehow in the wrong for discussing the episode. And, let's be clear here, Carole always discussed the episode when she blogged. I don't remember the gap between blog posts that you are discussing, but I also don't care enough to go back and review every single blog post. 

I don't remember Carole skipping a large number, but since I don't care enough to go back and look, I will take your word for it.

[LotusFlower]

Carole writing a book about her experience on this show is my dream. I could live with her not returning (or even the show not returning) in order for this to happen.

I would contend it's all in her blogs. They're so well-written and fun to read. And sometimes juicy. But I know what you mean -- a book would be cool, too. And probably juicier.

[Trooper York]

I didn't know that the contents of Bravo contracts are public documents so we know exactly what are in them with such confidence. That is very interesting. Good to know.

 

I realize that anyone can sue anyone for anything. But they won't do it if they are going to lose. Why spend the money and not get the satisfaction of making your accuser pay for their sins. I remember some famous celebrity suing the National Enquirer many years ago and winning a million dollars. I think it was Carol Burnett and they claimed she made all of her clothes out of curtains or something silly like that. Certainly nothing as earth shattering as using a ghost writer. The funny thing is it was a big thing at the time and now it is mostly forgotten. As will this dispute be old news next year when everyone will be talking about Ramona and Sonja competing for dates on EHarmony or something. 

 

(Actually they claimed Carol Burnett was drunk in public at a party with Henry Kissinger for you literal types. She won 1.6 million dollars. A lot better than the chump change you would earn as a Real Housewife)

Edited August 10, 2014 by Trooper York

[LotusFlower]

She wouldn't lose because the claim of a ghostwriter isn't true. But a lawsuit wouldn't be worth it, for a gazillion reasons. Just ask Phaedra Parks.

[ryebread]

If she wants to regain the credibility she believes Aviva, and Aviva alone, caused her to lose there's only one way I know of for her to do it.  Get off the reality TV clown show and finish her book.

She finished it. It's now in its second printing.

No, it's not. She's currently writing a book of essays.  Don't know how long it's been in the works but it's definitely not in it's second printing.

[motorcitymom65]

The ladies don't have to blog if they don't want to. I have always thought that Bravo should make them, but Tamra specifically has said that this is not in their contracts. I enjoy reading their blogs, and become frustrated when they skip them. Kyle, who is one of my favorite HW's is actually one of the biggest offenders in this category. During S3 in particular she would go for 3 or more weeks without blogging. Tamra is probably the worst. She has gone for 4 episodes or more without blogging (I am beyond embarrassed that this type of knowledge takes up room in my brain). I cannot imagine why any of the other gals would mind if someone does/does not blog. It only behooves the individual HW to blog and to try to tell their side of the story. If they don't care to explain themselves or to give their feelings on the episode, I cannot imagine another gal caring. Carole's blogs are usually well written and quite detailed. She touches on most everything that happened during an episode. Aviva's blogs on the other hand tend to be very short, and are generally more of a rant than something that gives any real insights into what she thought or was feeling about a particular episode.

[ScoobieDoobs]

Carol can't sue Aviva because it is in her contract.

 

OK, this kinda thing keeps getting said again & again.  It's not true, gang.  Just my take -- from this lawyer.  I'm certainly not the last word.  I haven't read their contracts with Bravo, but this is probably fairly easy to get around, so yeah, Carole could sue.  But as I have said before, several times actually, and Carole said it herself in the Buzzfeed interview, it's ultimately not in her best interest cuz a lawsuit against Aviva would necessitate the involvement of the companies Carole wants to work for.  Aviva's publishing company is Carole's publishing company.  And Bravo is part of NBC/Universal, which Carole has a development deal with for The Widow's Guide.

 

Now I wonder if Simon & Schuster is thrilled with Aviva for naming their editor Tricia Boczkowski as the source for her ghostwriter allegations (Oh, Moaner would be just so proud of me for using that word, eh?).  I suspect not.  They are an extremely conservative, controversy-averse company.  Wouldn't surprise me if they cut her loose cuz of this.  But who knows what Aviva's relationship is with them & if she was only committed to do one book.  Still, I bet they probably wouldn't want to deal with her again.  Very dumb move, Veevs.  Ah, but she's a law school & Vassar grad.  Poor Tricia.  Think her work email is getting flooded from loony fans?

 

The HW's have zero obligation to submit a blog. Zero. It's not part of their contracts.

 

I forget who mentioned it, maybe Carole or even Alex, but it is part of their jobs.  They may not have to do it every week, but the producers probably say who needs to do one & when.  Some of them need to explain themselves, especially if they've offended viewers, so it's a good opportunity to do that.  Er, how times is Moaner in that position -- every week? 

Edited August 10, 2014 by ScoobieDoobs

[jaync]

All in all, Ramona is damn lucky no one decided to really let her have it.

Ramona did get off easy. And SMH at that idiot sitting there cheesin' while Heather said her piece, and never offering any kind of apology. If she had chosen to do so, Heather would've been well within her rights to mention Mario screwing fried-haired younger blondes on Ramona's sheets.

 

Oh, the Dreschers, they are BOTH nasty pieces of work, aren't they?  

Yep, it takes a special brand of warped to lie about suffering from a condition/illness in that manner. What if one of their children acquired a debilitating case of asthma, for real? Pathetic pieces of shit, the both of them. Poor Harrison, indeed.

 

Ageist, elitist, racist...I'll also add homophobic to the mix of yuck that makes up Aviva.

 

Holla! at Heather being the best styled mama in the motherfuckin' house.

Edited August 10, 2014 by jaync

[ScoobieDoobs]

Anyone notice Moaner & Sonja spooning in this part of the reunion?  WTF?  It was when the Bookgate discussion was going on.  Interesting that neither of them could care less about it cuz it didn't affect them in the least.  Didn't matter to either of 'em that Aviva was behaving in such vile way or Carole's rep was being tainted.  Neither could give a rat's ass.  Either they were cuddling or Sonja covered her ears.  Thought it was pretty fucking nasty of them.  But Heather said it about Moaner -- and the same thing could be said of Sonja -- they're exceptionally self-absorbed.  They don't care about anything that doesn't affect them.  Lovely.

 

I'd actually really luv it if they boot Sonja -- & then Moaner won't have her to lean on anymore.

Edited August 10, 2014 by ScoobieDoobs

[robroy]

Carol Burnett sued the Enquirer for printing a story that she was falling down drunk at a Washington dinner.  Not sure if it was a restaurant, White House function or something along the lines of the Kennedy Center.  But the implication was that she was toasted and sloshing through an otherwise reputable venue. 

 

I think its funny that for all Veev's high end education, wealthy upbringing and delusions of societal importance her behavior most closely resembles Tamra Barney and Brandi Glanville.  With a side of Nene leaks at her worst.  I think those broads have about $5, 2 years of community college and 3 ounces of moral compass between them.  Its also ironic because good Ole George basically robbed Mary Lou Retton of much of her post Olympic earnings and the Veevs and her hubby have kids from three different relationships that they insist on passing off exclusively as their joint children. 

 

I actually think Ramona, Aviva and Sonja should be forced on a road trip together.  The three of them are the most pathetic mix of addict and child of addict tendencies I have ever witnessed.  Something about the way Aviva has her 'white trash' and 'makes ou feel a little sober' comments already holstered makes me think she has been to this rodeo a time or 300.  And if I ever see Aviva I will spit on her for repeating that discredited accusation about To Kill a Mocking Bird. 

[LotusFlower]

I forget who mentioned it, maybe Carole or even Alex, but it is part of their jobs.  They may not have to do it every week, but the producers probably say who needs to do one & when.  Some of them need to explain themselves, especially if they've offended viewers, so it's a good opportunity to do that.  Er, how times is Moaner in that position -- every week?

As Motorcitymom said, many HW's don't write blogs and have outright said they don't have to. Most of them do because they want to, and it serves their interests, esp. when an episode makes them look bad, so it's a chance to present their side. But it's not part of their contract. Does Bravo want them to? Of course, because they want hits on their site and social media attention, etc... So I'm sure they encourage it, but they can't force it if it's not in their contract.

OK, this kinda thing keeps getting said again & again.  It's not true, gang.  Just my take -- from this lawyer.  I'm certainly not the last word.  I haven't read their contracts with Bravo, but this is probably fairly easy to get around, so yeah, Carole could sue.  But as I have said before, several times actually, and Carole said it herself in the Buzzfeed interview, it's ultimately not in her best interest cuz a lawsuit against Aviva would necessitate the involvement of the companies Carole wants to work for.  Aviva's publishing company is Carole's publishing company.  And Bravo is part of NBC/Universal, which Carole has a development deal with for The Widow's Guide.

Yes, this is all true. But you're leaving out the part where she said their Bravo contracts prohibit them from suing each other. A cast member could sue another, but they'd have to break their contract. Then she went on to explain the other reasons, which you stated.

[ryebread]

Nevermind.

Edited August 11, 2014 by ryebread

[SFoster21]

There have even been instances when Bravo wouldn't post a RH blog -- Nene and Tamra have posted in their websites instead on occasion, so no hard and fast rule exists, as far as I can see.

Never bother with them myself. Anything interesting is reposted here or other websites.

[zoeysmom]

Carole writing a book about her experience on this show is my dream. I could live with her not returning (or even the show not returning) in order for this to happen.

The RH are precluded from writing about their experiences on the show.  I believe Carole mentioned it just recently in an interview.

[zoeysmom]

As Motorcitymom said, many HW's don't write blogs and have outright said they don't have to. Most of them do because they want to, and it serves their interests, esp. when an episode makes them look bad, so it's a chance to present their side. But it's not part of their contract. Does Bravo want them to? Of course, because they want hits on their site and social media attention, etc... So I'm sure they encourage it, but they can't force it if it's not in their contract.

Yes, this is all true. But you're leaving out the part where she said their Bravo contracts prohibit them from suing each other. A cast member could sue another, but they'd have to break their contract. Then she went on to explain the other reasons, which you stated.

I hate to say it but Kandi sued Kim and used Phaedra as the attorney.  Kenya and Porsha may end up in civil court.  Bravo can't really prohibit cast members from suing one another.  Cast members are still entitles to certain legal remedies.   My guess is what Carole is saying is they can't sue one another over saying something nasty about someone.  So Countess saying Mario, "is no Sinatra" or LuAnn being shown without Autotune and Ramona saying, "LuAnn won't sing without Autotune," when the real reason was Bravo was too cheap to pay royalties on a song.  I think certain instances may render someone helpless under the "we can edit you fools any way we sit fit" clause.

[LotusFlower]

I think what Carole meant was that the HW's can't sue each other over things said on the show. Everything outside of the show is different.

[motorcitymom65]

I think what Carole meant was that the HW's can't sue each other over things said on the show. Everything outside of the show is different.

This is my understanding. I didn't watch the Atlanta show, but my understanding is that the lawsuit between cast mates is about a song or something, not about things that were said on the show.

At attorney was on a talk show once talking about cast mates suing one another on a reality show (not a RH show), and to me he made a ton of sense. His assertion was that generally networks afford cast members a great manner of protection from lawsuits brought by their co-workers, not to protect a cast member, but to protect and enhance the show. He said that if someone was afraid that something they might say about someone else on the show could potentially open them up to financial devestation, that people would be much more leery about "bringing" the drama. More importantly he said, should such a lawsuit be allowed regarding things that were said on the show, the defendant would more than likely introduce elements in their defense that would basically reveal things that go on behind the scenes. Trade secrets so to speak, that the network would want to keep quiet. Things like exactly what role production plays in setting up or extending/enhancing the drama? How much, if any of this is scripted? How edited is this show? These are all things that would come out if someone was forced to defend themselves against something they said on the show.

I don't think Bravo gives a rats ass if someone is sued for something they say/do off the show.

[ScoobieDoobs]

So I was thinkin' -- why did Veevs get so angry & rant on Carole for using the word "weird"?  Maybe it hit a nerve with her & she didn't like being called weird?  

 

Look, I have nothing against the word, but I kinda agree with Veevs, in a sense.  Actually, I'm sorta surprised Carole uses the word.  First off, it's kinda juvenile.  I haven't said it much since I was a teen.  Secondly, it's way judgmental & even narrow-minded.  Carole has said many times she is drawn to people who are different & maybe even eccentric, so I would think "weird" would be a good trait to her & not one to be labeled in a negative way.  Well, the word definitely has a negative connotation -- and Carole has only meant it that sense when referring to Aviva.

 

To say Aviva has anger issues would be a mild understatement.  When she's angry, she rages.  It's pretty scary actually.  But certain things do set her off.  Guess it's not exactly a stretch to assume all the rage is coming from losing her leg.  The woman should be in therapy.  She desperately needs help.  I only hope she doesn't rage like this on her children.  Anyhoo, what is it about the word "weird" that set her off?  Maybe she was called weird when she was a one-legged kid & Carole calling her weird brought back painful childhood memories & it really hurt her.  Now that I could understand.

 

Hey, Carole, if you are such a serious writer/journalist you proclaim you are, I think you can come up with another word besides "weird".  In fact, maybe you might wanna give up on that word, eh?  It lacks compassion & understanding, which you clearly want the world to think you have.  Not sure why I need to tell you this, but the fact that I do speak volumes bout you, Carole dear.

 

It all goes back to that Carole just does NOT know how to fight in Housewives land.  She really doesn't.  She had the chance to clear things up at the reunion, but she got nowhere cuz she didn't express herself very well.  Saying "weird" certainly didn't fuckin' cut it.  If it were me at that reunion I'd have ripped Veevs to shreds -- and I ain't no big shot writer -- so WTF, Carole?  Why is it ya suck so back at expressing yourself on the show?

Edited August 11, 2014 by ScoobieDoobs

[AKA...CJ86]

There have even been instances when Bravo wouldn't post a RH blog.

 

...or they have been severely edited by Bravo.

[Lastwaltz]

Some folks are more comfortable writing their thoughts than talking about them. Especially when someone's struck the bullseye. I also didn't hear Andy or anyone else giving Carole a word in edge-wise. But I agree with you -- I wanted her to let Veevs have it with both barrels blazing. Maybe tonight : )

 

Re "weird" -- eh, I use it a lot, too. In fact, more often recently as my daughter has tried to strike the word "crazy" from our vocabulary after working in a psychiatric hospital for troubled teens. 

[ScoobieDoobs]

Guess there are many substitutes for "weird" -- strange, oddball, loony, loopy -- um, anything that would describe Moaner would fit quite nicely, actually.

[Mozelle]

This idea that writers have words at the ready extemporaneously is always an interesting one. Writing is a process of re-writing really, so the final words (as in vocabulary choice or sentence structure) that one reads in a book or an article is probably not what was originally put down on paper (or screen). Additionally, the words have been pored over until right. Expecting that to be the case in a verbal spat is to have too high of an expectation.

[ScoobieDoobs]

Expecting that to be the case in a verbal spat is to have too high of an expectation.

 

I don't agree.  Many writers have displayed an extremely quick wit.  Carole is just not one of them.  And that's why Veevs came after her this season full force -- cuz she knew she could squash her like a bug on camera.  She does it every time they're together.  Carole loses every time & looks like like crap & never gets any point across.  She throws her hands up & gives up in frustration.  Er, why in the fuckety fuck are you on the show, Carole, if you're just gonna do that?

[shoegal]

This idea that writers have words at the ready extemporaneously is always an interesting one. Writing is a process of re-writing really, so the final words (as in vocabulary choice or sentence structure) that one reads in a book or an article is probably not what was originally put down on paper (or screen). Additionally, the words have been pored over until right. Expecting that to be the case in a verbal spat is to have too high of an expectation.

Agreed, the idea that because Carole is a writer, she can't use the word weird is just, weird. It's also petty, nitpicky and ridiculous. I hope those words are acceptable vocabulary words, Aviva!

Edited August 11, 2014 by shoegal

[ryebread]

Carole loses every time & looks like like crap & never gets any point across.  She throws her hands up & gives up in frustration.  Er, why in the fuckety fuck are you on the show, Carole, if you're just gonna do that?

Interesting point.  I wonder if this is why Heather shushes her.  Heather knows her better than we do.  Perhaps she's aware that Carole doesn't know how to use her words in the heat of battle and uses the shushing as her way of protecting Carole?  Not that I think it's right...Carole is a grown woman, but it might be another explanation other than Heather just wanting the floor all the time.

[motorcitymom65]

Agreed, the idea that because Carole is a writer, she can't use the word weird is just, weird. It's also petty, nitpicky and ridiculous. I hope those words are acceptable vocabulary words, Aviva!

Yea, I just cannot understand it. I met a famous chef once and he was entertaining us with the fact that folks are always surprised, and sometimes disappointed, to learn that some of his favorite foods are simple. He said that the fact that he is classically trained and is known for being creative seems to mean that he cannot enjoy a simple burger or slice of pizza from a food truck. Same with Carole not being allowed to use the word weird, which is just flat out weird.

[motorcitymom65]

Interesting point.  I wonder if this is why Heather shushes her.  Heather knows her better than we do.  Perhaps she's aware that Carole doesn't know how to use her words in the heat of battle and uses the shushing as her way of protecting Carole?  Not that I think it's right...Carole is a grown woman, but it might be another explanation other than Heather just wanting the floor all the time.

During the Season Finale, right before the leg toss, that is exactly what I thought that Heather was doing. I think that she thought Carole was going to say something she might regret, and she was trying to save her from that. Has Heather done this to her before? I cannot remember. I remember Carole shushed Heather when she came to try to play peacemaker between Aviva and Carole when they were talking on the beach.

To me this is a sign of a good friend. Neither Heather nor Carole are afraid that the other is going to be pissed at them for getting involved. They both seem to understand that the other gal has their best interest at heart, or that they will be forgiven for being abrupt with them in the heat of battle. They don't take it personally, or analyze it to death, or think that it is a betrayal, because they know differently. I hope they both leave before Bravo does their best to ruin what appears to be a very nice little friendship.

[walnutqueen]

"Aviva is a fucking weirdo."

 

Is that a more acceptable usage?

[OhGromit]

I don't agree.  Many writers have displayed an extremely quick wit.  Carole is just not one of them.  And that's why Veevs came after her this season full force -- cuz she knew she could squash her like a bug on camera.  She does it every time they're together.  Carole loses every time & looks like like crap & never gets any point across.  She throws her hands up & gives up in frustration.  Er, why in the fuckety fuck are you on the show, Carole, if you're just gonna do that?

 

I think Carole is very quick-witted, but Aviva's aggression is scary.  Aviva goes so far outside the usual human social interaction playbook with her lies and nastiness, that conflict-averse personalities (like Carole) probably have a tendency to withdraw in the face of Aviva's anger.  It might be wiser not to poke that polecat anyhow. 

Edited August 11, 2014 by OhGromit

[ryebread]

To me this is a sign of a good friend. Neither Heather nor Carole are afraid that the other is going to be pissed at them for getting involved. They both seem to understand that the other gal has their best interest at heart, or that they will be forgiven for being abrupt with them in the heat of battle. +Po

Possibly.  I'm not entirely convinced, yet.  That's why I'm hoping for another season.  If Heather weren't so self-admittedly bossy, I'd buy that she just does it to protect her friend. 

 

But there's still the side of me that believes she does it because she believes she does everything better. Including all the talking. And mostly she does.  But it's obnoxious that she knows it and flaunts it.  (Imo, of course)

[ryebread]

Carole's use of 'weird'.  It's not how often she uses it that bugs because we all have our favorites but, use your words, girl.  Also, Aviva uses ghostwriter to get under Carole's skin, Carole uses weird to get under hers.  It's not the simplicity of the words - it's the tone and intent in which they use them..

And to be honest, Carole reminds me of my angsty teen sister in the 70's, hair parted in the middle and hanging in her face - she went through a period where everything was 'weird'.  Mostly it was, "That's weird, man."   Maybe Carole is trying to make 'weird' happen again. 

[Neurochick]

Aviva is fucking weird and her father is a fucking weird pervert, my opinion of course.    

Edited August 11, 2014 by Neurochick

[MatildaMoody]

 

And that's why Veevs came after her this season full force -- cuz she knew she could squash her like a bug on camera.  She does it every time they're together.  Carole loses every time & looks like like crap & never gets any point across.

I don't think this is true at all. i think that Aviva loses because she looks unhinged in the way she nastily attacks Carole and that Carole looks appropriately flabbergasted and shocked the way any normal person would when faced with such a nasty attack. In other words, Aviva comes out the loser while Carole comes out looking like any normal person having a normal reaction to that type of attack. 

[ryebread]

Additionally, the words have been pored over until right. Expecting that to be the case in a verbal spat is to have too high of an expectation.

 

I don't agree.  Many writers have displayed an extremely quick wit.  Carole is just not one of them.  

I agree with both of you.  I don't think Carole has a quick wit, in real time, as I've never seen it or maybe it was just not that memorable.  On the other hand, I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing that she doesn't have the facilities to fight as dirty as Aviva or Heather or Ramona.

[ScoobieDoobs]

Aviva comes out the loser while Carole comes out looking like any normal person having a normal reaction to that type of attack.

 

Well, sorta & yet Carole comes outta this with her rep tainted cuz she doesn't know how to effectively defend herself against Aviva.  Sure, Veevs is a lunatic.  And yet she gets out these sound bites -- like "you're not that great a writer -- nobody cares whether you had a ghostwirter" or "after the 12th time I thought you were protesting too much".  I'd say she got out the implication that Carole had a ghostwriter pretty good.  Carole never especially countered this crap.  Or if she did, I didn't hear it, so whatever Carole said obviously wasn't too effective.  Sorry, but I think she stunk big time in getting the point across that she wrote her books herself.

Edited August 11, 2014 by ScoobieDoobs

[zoeysmom]

Aviva is so convinced her words are cutting edge sarcastic that she forgets that they get lost in translation. Aviva tries too hard for the camera.   Sarcasm works for some-Bethenny Season 1-3, did not work at all for Jill Season 3.  So if you are going to adopt a sarcastic persona don't try an deviate from it by telling someone some made up mush because it all comes off poorly.  I find there is zero sincerity in anything Aviva says or writes.

 

The other one that has no concept of conversational skills is Sonja.  I think when the cameras are on there is a blithering idiot switch that is tripped in her brain.  My guess is most of the time she is probably grounded but put her around a camera and she becomes nonsensical. 

 

Ramona is so busy looking ahead to the next thing that she cannot stay focused on the present.  She is a watch checker, a person who always wants to know what is next.  Whoever prepped Ramona for the Reunion did not take into account that she is easily distracted by shiny objects.

 

LuAnn has the ability to insert snide comment and retreat.  Since she has no storyline and everything is off limits in LuAnn's life she usually comes out a winner.  LuAnn reminds me of Heather Dubrow-"oh my how mean the call me 'Fancy Pants'."  There is absolutely no negative and it just goes to her feelings of superiority.

 

Carole is too busy mentally writing her next essay and giving Aviva dirty looks.

 

Kristen continues to assert herself where she doesn't belong and just whines and yammers on.  No one wants to hear from her and yet she takes up an inordinate amount of air time.

 

Heather does speak in a classless, unrefined way.  She is a know it all and is very cutting in her comments.  I so hope her precious Jonathan turns into Josh one day.  No one wants to cross Heather because she is a junk yard dog.

[ScoobieDoobs]

So was Moaner's behavior at the reunion typical Moaner or was she acting particularly nuts cuz Mario was on the edge of leaving her & she didn't know what to say?

[Satchels of gold]

Interesting point.  I wonder if this is why Heather shushes her.  Heather knows her better than we do.  Perhaps she's aware that Carole doesn't know how to use her words in the heat of battle and uses the shushing as her way of protecting Carole?  Not that I think it's right...Carole is a grown woman, but it might be another explanation other than Heather just wanting the floor all the time.

I think Carole is very quick-witted, but Aviva's aggression is scary.  Aviva goes so far outside the usual human social interaction playbook with her lies and nastiness, that conflict-averse personalities (like Carole) probably have a tendency to withdraw in the face of Aviva's anger.  It might be wiser not to poke that polecat anyhow.

I think Heather realizes that Carole can't go up against Aviva's craziness. She has the attitude of " step aside Carole I got this". In her book ,Carol writes about her kooky family including her pot smoking grandma. I think she can deal with kooky crazy but not evil crazy like Aviva. I would love to know the real reason Aviva has turned on Carole. Perhaps Aviva doesn't even know but I really believe there is a psychological reason behind it. There is just too much passion to her hate for me to believe otherwise.

[AKA...CJ86]

Guess there are many substitutes for "weird" -- strange, oddball, loony, loopy -- um, anything that would describe Moaner would fit quite nicely, actually.

...cough...off her fuckin' rockers...cough...fits pretty well.

 

I know, I know, I said I found her sympathetic, but at the end of the day...girls a vile bitch...

Edited August 11, 2014 by CyberJawa1986

[Mozelle]

Heather does speak in a classless, unrefined way.  She is a know it all and is very cutting in her comments.  I so hope her precious Jonathan turns into Josh one day.  No one wants to cross Heather because she is a junk yard dog.

I don't know. If it's not cool for LuAnn to make utterances to Ramona about karma (even given their frenemy history with one another), I can't see why Heather should be saddled with a big ol' douche like Josh.

That said, Jonathan and Heather have been married for 10 years and he hasn't shown any douche-like signs or tendencies whereas Josh and Kristen have been married for eight and he's not been shy about flying his douche flag high. Heather and Jonathan seem to balance each other out well.

[LotusFlower]

Aviva is not smart. She didn't effectively defend herself in any way, shape, or form. Saying "use your words, Writer Girl" made her sound like a twelve-year-old. She stupidly said that Truman Capote wrote To Kill a Mockingbird, she said that saying the f-word in front of young kids was no big deal, she said that "real writers" use ghosts, but she, not a writer, didn't, etc., etc... She's just a Desperate Housewife who concocted a scheme to attract attention on the show, and because it was such a bad idea, and because she's so unlikeable and evil, it backfired.