S01.E07: The Dark Along the Ways

[paulvdb]

Quote

Moiraine and her charges are diverted from their path by an unexpected encounter. This diversion, though, reveals many things — Moiraine’s true goal, Lan’s past, the fractures that have grown in the group, and the identity of the Dragon Reborn.

Premiere date: December 17, 2021

[AnimeMania]

No accompanying animation.

Excellent fight choreography for the pregnant lady. I am surprised she didn't just reach into the hole in her belly and pull the baby out.

The Ogier seems to have made himself scarce once they reached the city.

I am guessing that Moiraine asked the Red Aes Sedai to stupefy Mat.

[Anduin]

That first fight, it reminded me of the Matrix sequels. Like, you could see how everyone was moving into place, rather than the impression of a wild free-for-all you normally see in fight scenes. Considering how the camera spun around to show it off, I suspect it was deliberate.

IMDB says that Mama Rand, Magdalena Sittova, is a stunt performer. I wonder if we'll see more of her in future. Like, why was she half way up a mountain involved in a battle while so pregnant? That has to be a story worth showing. We'll probably get a drip feed of Rand's backstory as time goes on. Just one or two clips or recitations from other characters per season.

[paigow]

Moiraine: Decide tonight. We leave at sunrise.

[Interior: Sunlit halls and rooms of fortress]

Egwene: Who else wants to go?

[Anduin]

I get the feeling that Moraine is very autocratic. She's fond of demanding things. Will she explain? If she must. Assuming she lives to season 2, I hope she learns a little more negotiation. Good thing Min took the blackmail in good spirits. She could have given Moraine some dodgy reporting. Though who's to say she was on the level with Rand?

[UnoAgain]

I knew Perrin had a thing for Egwene... I know it's not the way the books have it... But I'd prefer them to sulky ass Rand... Who feels like he's owed something

[paigow]

3 hours ago, Anduin said:

Like, why was she half way up a mountain involved in a battle while so pregnant? 

White Tower Maury: Roose Bolton...You are NOT the father

[paigow]

1 hour ago, Anduin said:

I get the feeling that Moraine is very autocratic. She's fond of demanding things. 

When your girlfriend is Khaleesi, you become entitled....

[Zonk]

Was that supposed to be Mat sauntering out of the gate? Good thing you don't need the actor for back of the head shots. At least they gave a kinda good explaination why Moraine would leave him behind.

 

So the eye of the world is only a days walk from the border city in the overworld, but in the shadow world it would have also been almost another day? I thought distances there were a lot shorter. Or is it not linear?

 

"Don't trust anything the wind told you... unless it told you that you are the dragon reborn, that's totes true yo!"

I mean come on, I would have expected that dumbassery from Rand, but not from you Moraine. (yes, I know she might not know that the wind told him, but just taking his word for it is just dumb.)

They even brought up the idea of a multiheaded dragon last episode. Why is that suddenly out the window?

 

Interesting to see the channeling when Rand broke down the ironwood door. It was clear in that episode that he used channeling, but we didn't get the special effect. Will have to go back and see if they framed the shot so that we couldn't see it or if it was a bit bullshitty that they left it out.

Interestingly his channeling didn't seem to be effected by the darkness until the last shot we got in the flashback. That was when he force pushed the trolloc in the dark world. I assumed the dragon was immune till now, since the last dragon was freed from the madness. But maybe they still are, the channeling just has that dark tinge, but it doesn't effect them. Or this dragon isn't (as) effected since three heads are women.

Edited December 17, 2021 by Zonk

[paigow]

Since the Blight stopped so neatly, is it a bad idea to BURN it down??? 

[Humbugged]

21 minutes ago, Anduin said:

She had to go hiking and a fight broke out, or she had to get into a fight that was located on a mountain? For that matter, who is making all these prophecies? Why are people so insistent on following them?

I'm starting to side with Mat here. If it was me, I would have deserted Moraine too.

I can tell you in book to show

[MissL]

34 minutes ago, Zonk said:

Was that supposed to be Mat sauntering out of the gate? Good thing you don't need the actor for back of the head shots. At least they gave a kinda good explaination why Moraine would leave him behind.

No. It was the peddler that visited the two rivers in the first episode. You can tell when you see the full shot of him from behind and Perrin sees him in the city later and mentions it but thinks he’s seeing things.

I read the first book and this is veering pretty wildly so I have a new theory after some of what Minn said about they are all connected and there are little bits of light between them…Im guessing Rands relationship with them and their friendship and the strengths they each bring are what he needs to not go dark. So in effect they are all part of the dragon. Cheesy yeah. Wrong…likely.

Found it interesting that we saw what Minn saw when she looked at the boys individually but not when she looked at the ladies.

[Zonk]

35 minutes ago, MissL said:

No. It was the peddler that visited the two rivers in the first episode. You can tell when you see the full shot of him from behind and Perrin sees him in the city later and mentions it but thinks he’s seeing things.

Ah thx. I got that Perrin saw him in the city. It just didn't put two and two together. That's the problem when you show people only from behind, show.

I assumed we would see him again, since in the first episode thread here somebody said his race was changed from the books, kinda spoiling that he's recurring, so I wasn't really surprised when Perrin saw him... more that he wouldn't go after him and check.

And Nynaeve gave me good laugh "He's dead. He was in the village when it was attacked". Bitch, everybody thought you were dead, too. You were hit square with a deadly weapon and then carried off by a trolloc. Sometimes these characters amaze me with their stupidity.

Edited December 17, 2021 by Zonk

[Danny Franks]

I've been waiting for that scene since seeing the Aiel in the trailer. It did not disappoint. Obviously choreographed in parts? Sure. But I didn't care because it was a great introduction to them - this is what one Aiel can do while she's pregnant and actually going into labour.

I wouldn't have recognised young Tam if I didn't know who it was going to be. De-aging CGI is still a tough thing to get right, especially on a TV budget.

The Ways were pretty cool. Unnerving and creepy and disorienting. And also apparently made of basalt columns. Machin Shin was more like a swarm of negging and gaslighting, which is a very contemporary enemy to face, but I like how it set up a lot of the conflict and bruised feelings later in the episode.

I thought Rosamund's depiction of Moiraine was really cool in this episode. You can see her fraying at the edges, scared and unsure and barely holding on to her temper at multiple times. It sold the scale of what they're going to face pretty well. When she was talking to Min, she definitely had the air of a school teacher who has had it up to fucking here with these idiot kids.

"They're both big. And they both brood."

Min's viewings were nicely obscure, but ominous. I liked how tired Min was of being bothered about them. 

Lan and Nynaeve are too fucking hot. Both of them. It's not fair. I also wonder if Lan masked his bond with Moiraine, or whether Nynaeve just had a psychic threesome. Also, braid tugs!

What else happened? Oh yeah, we found out who the Dragon Reborn was. Or, at least, who Moiraine believes the Dragon Reborn is. How do I feel about the reveal? I don't know. On the one hand it's kind of anti-climactic for this not to be revealed in the heat of the moment, but on the other hand it does give Rand some proactiveness in stepping forward and saying, 'it's me. My friends don't need to come and die.'

Fain continues to be really fucking creepy. He's so jolly and carefree.

[Jack Shaftoe]

28 minutes ago, Zonk said:

And Nynaeve gave me good laugh "He's dead. He was in the village when it was attacked". Bitch, everybody thought you were dead, too. You were hit square with a deadly weapon and then carried off by a trolloc. Sometimes these characters amaze me with their stupidity.

Yeah, most of the villagers survived (not that the protagonists seemed to care very much about that). This episode had some really clunky lines - Moiraine's idea of pep talk was hilariously terrible, for example, but overall I found it much better than the previous two. Focusing on the group dynamics between the main characters, not surprisingly tends to lead to better results than centering the entire episode about secondary or even tertiary characters.

1 hour ago, Zonk said:

So the eye of the world is only a days walk from the border city in the overworld, but in the shadow world it would have also been almost another day? I thought distances there were a lot shorter. Or is it not linear?

The show messed up, the Ways are supposed to make travel much faster, the distance between Fal Dara and the Eye remaining the same makes very little sense.

[Danny Franks]

11 minutes ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

The show messed up, the Ways are supposed to make travel much faster, the distance between Fal Dara and the Eye remaining the same makes very little sense.

They didn't use the Ways to get to the Eye, they just walked from Fal Dara.

[Jack Shaftoe]

I know but the group seemed a long way off their target in the Ways only to end up exiting from a gate leading to a city right next to the Eye. Pretty convenient.

[thuganomics85]

Good to see that Edna's "No capes!" motto from The Incredibles franchise holds true here as well, judging from how Rand's badass mom took out one of the soldiers by literally jumping, grabbing his gold cape, and slamming him down on the ground.  Epic!  The entire fight was badass, even if I figured it was only going to be a matter of time before someone got her.  Also suspected early on she was going to be Rand's mom in a flashback simply because she had similar hair and on television, most auburn/redheaded characters end up being related somehow!  Good to see Michael McElhatton again too.

Bit of a typical penultimate episode where it was mainly setting things up for the grand finale, but I enjoyed it enough despite some of the clunky writing and need to pad things out.  Sure, I knew all of the four candidates were going to come around at the end, but it does makes sense that they would have doubts and debate it a bit after hearing Moiraine's "So, funny story!  Whoever isn't the Dragon Reborn is probably going to die after this quest!" reveal.  Also seem to be planting seeds for potential conflicts going forward like a possible triangle with Egwene, Rand, and Perrin.  But I enjoyed some of the little things too like Perrin explaining to Rand and Nynaeve about the Way of the Leaf, Moiraine's "both of them are big brooding dudes" to the seer, and seeing more of the city/Borderlands and the look and feel of it compared to the previous ones.

Well, Lan/Nynaeve certainly went quickly from almost killing one another to meeting the folks (kind of) and having some sexy time (and even staying over!)  Hey, when you're on a mission when death is around every corner (and one of you has a one in four chance of dying even if you make the destination), you're probably going to skip a few steps in the romance department!

Won't lie: when the gang was running across that bridge in the underground path (the Ways?), I was waiting for one of them to get Gandalfed.  The comparisons are too easy at times!

So, for now, evidence is pointing towards Rand being the Dragon Reborn.  Both and Moiraine certainly seem to believe it right now.  I guess we'll see.  Seems like too much of an obvious choice.  Either way, I suspect something will happen that will prevent the non-Dragon Reborns from dying.  Or maybe it will end up being that all of them have a little Dragon Reborn in them.  I guess we'll find out next week!

[Anduin]

5 hours ago, Humbugged said:

I can tell you in book to show

No, I just want the show to give me answers. It would be nice if the Two Rivers people asked these questions.

3 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

The Ways were pretty cool. Unnerving and creepy and disorienting. And also apparently made of basalt columns.

I'd say it was inspired by the Giant's Causeway in Ireland, though I also see inside the soul gem from Skyrim. And somewhere else, that eludes me right now. Maybe in Witcher 3?

[tennisgurl]

Even if it was rather overly choreographed, the opening fight was still cool. I figured that the pregnant lady was Rand's mom, they both have red hair and Rand's hair was brought up as a unique feature a few episodes ago, and of course that means he's the dragon. Or at least he and Moiraine are convinced he is, and after Moiraine's ever so inspirational "three or all of you are toast" speech. This was definitely an episode for moving characters around, dropping exposition, and generally getting ready for the finale, but it was still pretty enjoyable. Certainly got me interested in seeing how they will wrap the season up next episode. 

Oh yeah, Lan/Nynaeve went and made it official! I liked their scenes a lot, they have great chemistry and Lan opening up to her about his tragic past was really sweet, them joking about her "tracking" him was a cute call back. I loved Egwene seeing Nynaeve's made bed and smiling in a very "get it girl" way, then practically high fiving her when she got back. As much as I like Lan/Nynaeve as a couple, I am not really here for the Rand/Egwene/Perrin love triangle, it just feels awkward and unnecessary. Perrin's poor wife, accidently killed by her husband who was apparently pining away for another woman all along, she was apparently just second choice. I really liked the friendship between Perrin and Egwene, having him secretly having feelings for her messes with the dynamic. I don't love Ran/Egwene that much, but I would take it over a love triangle that comes out of nowhere any day. With everything going on and everything that will happen, do we need this?

Moiraine had a rough week, she's losing that "calm and in control" vibe she usually aims for, she's getting nervous, annoyed, and even remorseful about attaching herself to Lan, feeling like she has taken over his life and he could end up like the poor guy who killed himself earlier if this goes sideways. 

I really like Min, she's just so annoyed at people showing up at her bar to ask for her future. She just wants to make margaritas damn it.

[GustavMahler]

Well as a book reader, I never got a Moria vibe as they traveled through the ways…I was expecting Gollum to be following them, Gandalf swing by to tell the Ogier to use his nose when choosing the path, and the Balrog to pop up and ask for a toll at the bridge….

[paigow]

So the Trollocs disrupted the mission by doing what the Roadrunner does... Spin the arrow sign in the desert so Wile E Coyote runs off a cliff or into a train tunnel...

Edited December 17, 2021 by paigow

[Anduin]

So here's another thought. They're all still in their Two Rivers clothes. It's been over a month! Egwene in particular was stripped, while Perrin got his shirt cut open. Couldn't they have changed between then and now? No one in Tar Valon or Fal Dara offered them a bath and some fresh gear? Maybe that's why Mat left.

[paigow]

33 minutes ago, Anduin said:

So here's another thought. They're all still in their Two Rivers clothes. It's been over a month! Egwene in particular was stripped, while Perrin got his shirt cut open. Couldn't they have changed between then and now? No one in Tar Valon or Fal Dara offered them a bath and some fresh gear? Maybe that's why Mat left.

Egwene & Perrin should have stolen some Whitecloaks from the laundry hamper on their way out of Dodge... They were offered baths in Fal Dara but sexy times were more important...

[phoenics]

7 hours ago, Zonk said:

They even brought up the idea of a multiheaded dragon last episode. Why is that suddenly out the window?

This - the writing really seems to have left far more breadcrumbs pointing to all of them being the dragon vs just one of them.  So I'm still not sure Rand is really the dragon.  Plus the reveal felt shaky and uncertain.  Were the writers thinking they'd made it super clear that Rand is the dragon or no?

[phoenics]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

Even if it was rather overly choreographed, the opening fight was still cool. I figured that the pregnant lady was Rand's mom, they both have red hair and Rand's hair was brought up as a unique feature a few episodes ago, and of course that means he's the dragon. Or at least he and Moiraine are convinced he is, and after Moiraine's ever so inspirational "three or all of you are toast" speech. This was definitely an episode for moving characters around, dropping exposition, and generally getting ready for the finale, but it was still pretty enjoyable. Certainly got me interested in seeing how they will wrap the season up next episode. 

Oh yeah, Lan/Nynaeve went and made it official! I liked their scenes a lot, they have great chemistry and Lan opening up to her about his tragic past was really sweet, them joking about her "tracking" him was a cute call back. I loved Egwene seeing Nynaeve's made bed and smiling in a very "get it girl" way, then practically high fiving her when she got back. As much as I like Lan/Nynaeve as a couple, I am not really here for the Rand/Egwene/Perrin love triangle, it just feels awkward and unnecessary. Perrin's poor wife, accidently killed by her husband who was apparently pining away for another woman all along, she was apparently just second choice. I really liked the friendship between Perrin and Egwene, having him secretly having feelings for her messes with the dynamic. I don't love Ran/Egwene that much, but I would take it over a love triangle that comes out of nowhere any day. With everything going on and everything that will happen, do we need this?

Moiraine had a rough week, she's losing that "calm and in control" vibe she usually aims for, she's getting nervous, annoyed, and even remorseful about attaching herself to Lan, feeling like she has taken over his life and he could end up like the poor guy who killed himself earlier if this goes sideways. 

I really like Min, she's just so annoyed at people showing up at her bar to ask for her future. She just wants to make margaritas damn it.

We watched and had the exact same reactions.  I have not read the books so I'm still looking at everything with wonder and amazement - I have no idea where anything is going but I'm enjoying the ride.  

I also felt the Rand reveal was totally unearned - I was left scratching my head like - are you sure he's the dragon? I don't believe it at all.  I keep thinking they all are.  Maybe there is something about his species (?) that clouds things due to his relationships with the others?

And Lan/Nynaeve - whew - that ship came out of nowhere to me and grabbed on tight.  Love them.  It is nice watching Nynaeve soften around Lan.

And Rand/Egwene/Perrin - le sigh.  I don't get this at all.  That felt like whiplash. And it definitely complicates what happened in the first episode.  If I was him I'd be even more eaten with guilt over that - but at the same time - until he and Egwene were off on their own, I saw nothing from him to her.  Not a thing.  And even then it just felt platonic?  So Rand's jealousy just felt overblown. But then again, his reactions to Egwene have always felt whiny and overblown - the show just hasn't spent enough time explaining why he's so clingy to her.

Both Rand and Nynaeve are far more wary of Moraine than the others and it feels like the show didn't really delve into why enough.

[UnoAgain]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

Even if it was rather overly choreographed, the opening fight was still cool. I figured that the pregnant lady was Rand's mom, they both have red hair and Rand's hair was brought up as a unique feature a few episodes ago, and of course that means he's the dragon. Or at least he and Moiraine are convinced he is, and after Moiraine's ever so inspirational "three or all of you are toast" speech. This was definitely an episode for moving characters around, dropping exposition, and generally getting ready for the finale, but it was still pretty enjoyable. Certainly got me interested in seeing how they will wrap the season up next episode. 

Oh yeah, Lan/Nynaeve went and made it official! I liked their scenes a lot, they have great chemistry and Lan opening up to her about his tragic past was really sweet, them joking about her "tracking" him was a cute call back. I loved Egwene seeing Nynaeve's made bed and smiling in a very "get it girl" way, then practically high fiving her when she got back. As much as I like Lan/Nynaeve as a couple, I am not really here for the Rand/Egwene/Perrin love triangle, it just feels awkward and unnecessary. Perrin's poor wife, accidently killed by her husband who was apparently pining away for another woman all along, she was apparently just second choice. I really liked the friendship between Perrin and Egwene, having him secretly having feelings for her messes with the dynamic. I don't love Ran/Egwene that much, but I would take it over a love triangle that comes out of nowhere any day. With everything going on and everything that will happen, do we need this?

Moiraine had a rough week, she's losing that "calm and in control" vibe she usually aims for, she's getting nervous, annoyed, and even remorseful about attaching herself to Lan, feeling like she has taken over his life and he could end up like the poor guy who killed himself earlier if this goes sideways. 

I really like Min, she's just so annoyed at people showing up at her bar to ask for her future. She just wants to make margaritas damn it.

I saw Perrin having feelings all the way in episode 1...so for me it doesn't come outta nowhere... But I don't think egewene feels that way at all so wouldn't really call it a triangle.. Was kinda sad how no one decided to check on him after his spot was blown all the way up... Even the morning after no one seemed to bother to ask... I also see nothing worthwhile in Rand/ egwene...  And Perrin is the type of character I would lobe to be the dragon.. And that's before the race stuff.. Cuz for all the bellyaching some are doing.. And all the patting on the back others are doing... The central hero is a white guy.. And the one helping and guiding is a white lady... Also Rand is such a stock (chosen hero)  character... Still I enjoyed it all 

[phoenics]

12 minutes ago, UnoAgain said:

I saw Perrin having feelings all the way in episode 1...so for me it doesn't come outta nowhere... But I don't think egewene feels that way at all so wouldn't really call it a triangle.. Was kinda sad how no one decided to check on him after his spot was blown all the way up... Even the morning after no one seemed to bother to ask... I also see nothing worthwhile in Rand/ egwene...  And Perrin is the type of character I would lobe to be the dragon.. And that's before the race stuff.. Cuz for all the bellyaching some are doing.. And all the patting on the back others are doing... The central hero is a white guy.. And the one helping and guiding is a white lady... Also Rand is such a stock (chosen hero)  character... Still I enjoyed it all 

Maybe that's why I kept thinking the reveal about Rand was unearned?  Because it just felt so ... the norm?  After NyNaeve's moment where I was truly SHOCKED, the Rand moment just paled.

I have thoughts about Moraine too but it's from what I've heard about her in the books and her prominence there so I'll go to the spoiler thread or if there is a race thread here to discuss her being centered on the show.

[UnoAgain]

17 minutes ago, phoenics said:

Maybe that's why I kept thinking the reveal about Rand was unearned?  Because it just felt so ... the norm?  After NyNaeve's moment where I was truly SHOCKED, the Rand moment just paled.

I have thoughts about Moraine too but it's from what I've heard about her in the books and her prominence there so I'll go to the spoiler thread or if there is a race thread here to discuss her being centered on the show.

That'd be nice I tried reddit.. But that place... Especially the book folks.. Are... As expected.. Very very " source material"  so the extra colors seems to have gotten. Them in a tizzy... I don't dislike Rand.. He's just.. So... Obvious.... Even Mat's character.. Woulda been better even if rougish / slick / sneaky has also been done over and over... But I still say the character of Perrin and how he's portrayed... U never really see that guy as the central hero/main driving force.. Maybe they'll deviate.. But if some folks are making this much ruckus now.. Imagine making Perrin... Who's played by a blk guy the dragon... Or Nynaeve... Smh

[Humbugged]

37 minutes ago, UnoAgain said:

That'd be nice I tried reddit.. But that place... Especially the book folks.. Are... As expected.. Very very " source material"  so the extra colors seems to have gotten. Them in a tizzy... I don't dislike Rand.. He's just.. So... Obvious.... Even Mat's character.. Woulda been better even if rougish / slick / sneaky has also been done over and over... But I still say the character of Perrin and how he's portrayed... U never really see that guy as the central hero/main driving force.. Maybe they'll deviate.. But if some folks are making this much ruckus now.. Imagine making Perrin... Who's played by a blk guy the dragon... Or Nynaeve... Smh

There is more than 1 prophecy

[SueB]

So MUCH to unpack! I watched twice to pick up all the details. This will be long.  Jump to ‘Bottom Line: TL;DR’ if you don’t want to read the whole thing.  For me… I need to luxuriate in my review. 
 

Characters:

Mat: I’m so disappointed he was left/stayed behind!  He’s got the best sense of humor (when not infected by evil dagger).  If he choose to stay behind, I think it’s because he’s afraid of hurting his friends. He was freaked out about that family he thought he may have killed.  And I do think the dagger has left some taint on him   I don’t think he’s evil.  If Moiraine used his hesitancy to shut the door quickly - well, that’s in keeping with her whole perspective. She didn’t trust him. But going without him also means leading the other four to the Dark One with potentially no Dragon Reborn to fight with. Which is pretty much suicide.  I refused to believe his story is over.

Perrin:  I did NOT see feelings for Egwene other than friendship.  He was protective but that is consistent with his guilt.  But there is clearly something I missed.  I think he long ago he accepted Rand/Egwene.  The yellow eyes thing is intriguing, I assume the good eyesight is part of the deal.  
 

Nynaeve: You choose wisely.  I mean … Lan is all kinds of yum.  I am 100% on board with that pairing. I also like how she insisted they make a choice to go.  Rand may be the Dragon but she’s exhibiting more power than anyone else right now. 

Egwene:  I have mixed feelings.  I feel like when she’s scared  she cuddles up to Rand.  When she’s not scared, she feels entitled to me.  I think she’s sincere about her desire to save the world. She’s very brave.  But I think she looks down on Mat.  Like I said, mixed feelings.

Rand: Second watch made so much more sense.  I think he suspected he had power - I DO remember the door coming down - but I think he knew for sure when he shoved the trolloc away with power. And the flashback to his Dad implying he was a found baby.  Suddenly Rand’s constant freaked out face makes more sense. I approve of his choice to go without his friends. 

Lan: Oh my.  Gorgeous, deadly, brave, and now tragic King without a country?   *sigh*. My inner teenager is SWOONING.  I have no shame about my crush on him. 

Moraine: I swear this woman lies like a rug.  I know they are not technically lies, but she switches from misleading to truthful in an instance.  I’m never sure what to believe.  I do like her regret over Lan.  I think she clearly expects to die and so is saying goodbye to Lan in their final scene.  On the other hand, she’s putting the Reds on Mat! Boo hiss!   Not good Moraine.  
 

But the purpose of this character by character review is to say I think all six main characters are important.  Min saw that there was something special about the Two River folks - not just Rand.  I don’t think we’ve invested this much time to have only Rand matter.  He’s clearly got a big role but I think they all have a part to play. 
 

other thoughts:

-I liked the hexagonal stones of the ways but think they should not have had side stones.  It would have been more cool without railings. 
- I saw Padan Fain in the dark in the Ways.  He appears not to be impacted by the Black Wind.   Creepy. 
- Rand’s Mom was a serious BadAss. As someone who has gone through labor, I appreciate her getting kind of stabby with those guys who kept interrupting her.  They deserved to get skewered.  I loved the photography.  She was clearly a warrior whose birth plan was ‘squat out a kid and keep fighting’.  I assume she died from being stabbed but given how BadAss she was, seems to me that stabbing was little more than a flesh wound.  So I’m going to call her officially ‘fridged.’  She had to die so Rand could have his idyllic upbringing.  
- I liked Loial’s pragmatism, Lan’s ‘family’ and definitely Min. Min seems to have the weight of the world on her shoulders.  
- I like how sex is so … accepted. No sense of shame, just fun.  
- Black Hawk dude earned his verbal smackdown.  Compensating much?
- The Blight Trees were a little too uniform to me.  I wish there had been more variety.  They did look creepy and somewhat alive. But trees should not be evil so that was not my favorite. 
 

Bottom Line for the TL;DR:  I think they are all special.  Rand may be The Dragon Reborn but there is more than just simple sidekicks in the group from the Two Rivers.  Looking forward to next week. 

Edited December 18, 2021 by SueB

[DoctorAtomic]

12 hours ago, Anduin said:

For that matter, who is making all these prophecies? Why are people so insistent on following them?

I tend to think in this genre prophecies are a bit of a crutch to force plot. A prophecy is just a guess that happens to be true. However to be a little fair here, this is a world where people believe in literal reincarnation. Moraine's whole purpose is to find the reincarnation of the Dragon. 

Also to be fair, in general, I'd say a prophecy probably doesn't mean what you think it means, but I can't really call out anyone actually believing in prophecy here. Because it's kind of history at the same time. 

Nice that they have an in-show explanation why the Trollocs got to the Two Rivers without anyone knowing. 

10 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

I thought Rosamund's depiction of Moiraine was really cool in this episode. You can see her fraying at the edges, scared and unsure and barely holding on to her temper at multiple times.

I think it's both her and Lan. Once Lan was saying 'what if it's *really* him [Mat]?' when they get in the Ways, she was like, 'we're in deep here'. Even as the show progressed, her jacket was undone, hair out of sorts. I did appreciate Moiraine being raw led her to slowly be more open with the gang after Min. 

26 minutes ago, SueB said:

Perrin:  I did NOT see feelings for Egwene other than friendship.  He was protective but that is consistent with his guilt.

No, I think I have to call bs for the first time on an otherwise very well done show. That was shoehorned in for conflict. The actor did not play it like that at all. 

Edited December 18, 2021 by DoctorAtomic

[Zonk]

So Rand's hair colour was important afterall. I assume in the books he stands out quite clearly with him looking different from all the other people in the village. That kinda loses its impact when you have people of almost every ethnicity living there. I get why they did it for the show and I'm not sure I would have done it different, but it presents a few problems.

 

I hope we'll eventually get an explaination why the dark one can move his troops through the Nether basalt deltas now and couldn't for the last few thousand years. Seems a bit arbitrary at the moment.

 

9 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Good to see that Edna's "No capes!" motto from The Incredibles franchise holds true here as well

I actually did shout "No Capes!" at my screen. Edna Mode, fashion icon, is always right!

 

5 hours ago, phoenics said:

And Rand/Egwene/Perrin - le sigh.  I don't get this at all.  That felt like whiplash. And it definitely complicates what happened in the first episode.  If I was him I'd be even more eaten with guilt over that - but at the same time - until he and Egwene were off on their own, I saw nothing from him to her.  Not a thing.  And even then it just felt platonic?  So Rand's jealousy just felt overblown. But then again, his reactions to Egwene have always felt whiny and overblown - the show just hasn't spent enough time explaining why he's so clingy to her.

Yeah, it kinda seems like the writers came up with it specifically this episode. I didn't see any indication when the two were on the road together for what must have been weeks or months.

Edited December 18, 2021 by Zonk

[Enero]

15 hours ago, UnoAgain said:

I knew Perrin had a thing for Egwene... I know it's not the way the books have it... But I'd prefer them to sulky ass Rand... Who feels like he's owed something

I too sensed there was something between Perrin and Egwene in an earlier episode. More from his side than hers. So it is interesting that it was revealed that he’s always had a thing for her in this episode  And I agree. Perrin is a thousand times the man Rand should be. I’m sick of the latter’s whining and insecurity.

13 hours ago, Zonk said:

"Don't trust anything the wind told you... unless it told you that you are the dragon reborn, that's totes true yo!"

I mean come on, I would have expected that dumbassery from Rand, but not from you Moraine. (yes, I know she might not know that the wind told him, but just taking his word for it is just dumb.)

This! When the flashback showed that the Dark Wind told him he was the dragon reborn I thought doesn’t the Dark Wind lie? Plays on one’s worst fears?  So why would Rand believe what it said? And why would Moraine take his word for it? The seer never said he was the dragon reborn only that he (the baby) was something impossible, that could mean anything. That’s one thing about prophesies and seeing the future, they are often vague and open to broad interpretation. Hopefully why Moraine believed Rand’s declaration will be addressed in the next episode. 

Speaking of Moraine, I feel like she’s not going to last past this season or will die early next season if the show is renewed. The writing seems to be on the wall with her distancing herself from Lan, her melancholy about the future and nostalgia about the past, and the seer telling her the the Amilyn (who is her lover) will be her downfall. I understand downfall could mean a lot of things, but with all that’s happening the signs seem to point to death.  

Nynaeve is so pretty when she smiles. After all that flirting and chemistry from the earlier episodes, and her channeling to save Lan’s life, they finally ummm…speak again. Lol. Glad they finally had their moment. Love the chemistry between them.

I got to say I was impressed by Rand’s mom in the teaser being heavily pregnant and in labor but managing to take out numerous soldiers. That’s as badass as it gets. 

[DearEvette]

11 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

Lan and Nynaeve are too fucking hot. Both of them. It's not fair. I also wonder if Lan masked his bond with Moiraine, or whether Nynaeve just had a psychic threesome. Also, braid tugs!

Ooh chile.  I am on their ship and have been for awhile.  He is just so purty and I like the conflict of them potentially having a relationship because of his bond with Moiraine -- split loyalties no matter what Lan says.  In the ways the black wind said to him 'You can't protect her' and I immediately thought, well which her is it talking about.? 

Poor Perrin's wife.  If he really was pining for Egwene all this time then that makes her death all the more sad.  I actually think the actors have way more chemistry together than Egwene and Rand. 

I loved Moiraine this episode.  She has always been enigmatic and arrogant, but there was something about the way Rosamund Pike was playing her this ep that made it feel like moreso than ever Moiraine was holding her cards really close to her chest. 

Once again I have to give it up to casting.  The casting for this show so far has, imo, been stellar.  Each character feels like I think they should from my book head-casting.  They all embody their characters very well.  And now we get Min.  And she is also perfect.  Just perfect! 

Which leads me to the first scene of Rand's mother fighting.  Again, met my expectations of what an Aiel Maiden of the Spear would be like and what a fantastic way to really give us a first real glimpse of an Aiel.  So utterly badass.  And now we see how fierce an Aiel warrior is when pregnant and in labor, imagine what they are like when they are in peak condition?  One scene, one Aiel, did more to explain their reputation as fighters than anything Thom Merillin said to Rand and Mat.

Speaking of, I wonder why Rand didn't mention Dina when they were arguing about Moiraine?  Dina outright said one of the five of them was spoken in the prophecy  So it is more than just the word of Moiraine.

The Ways were nicely creepy.

and finally:

“I owe Moraine three silvers.  You were scowling.  I bet on pouting”. Ha!  Lan’s got jokes.

Loial: “I’ll ask for your patience”
Rand: “If he’s asking for patience, then we’re gonna die here.”  Ha!  Rand’s also got jokes.

[Zonk]

1 hour ago, SueB said:

Mat: I’m so disappointed he was left/stayed behind!  He’s got the best sense of humor (when not infected by evil dagger).  If he choose to stay behind, I think it’s because he’s afraid of hurting his friends. He was freaked out about that family he thought he may have killed.  And I do think the dagger has left some taint on him   I don’t think he’s evil.  If Moiraine used his hesitancy to shut the door quickly - well, that’s in keeping with her whole perspective. She didn’t trust him. But going without him also means leading the other four to the Dark One with potentially no Dragon Reborn to fight with. Which is pretty much suicide.  I refused to believe his story is over.

The real reason of course being that the actor fucked off before filming the last two episodes, but I think they covered it up quite well. If you ignore the nobody noticing somebody staying behind on an open field from last episode.

11 minutes ago, Enero said:

Hopefully why Moraine believed Rand’s declaration will be addressed in the next episode. 

I doubt it. The writing on this show isn't strong enough for me to expect that. But we'll see.

12 minutes ago, Enero said:

Speaking of Moraine, I feel like she’s not going to last past this season or will die early next season if the show is renewed.

I don't think so. The seer said that the Amyrlin Seat would be her undoing. How I know prophecies, I assume it means that Moraine will eventually become the Amyrlin Seat, thus undoing Moiraine Sedai.

[DoctorAtomic]

12 hours ago, Zonk said:

Was that supposed to be Mat sauntering out of the gate?

It's already been answered, but I thought for a second it was Mat too. 

4 minutes ago, Zonk said:

26 minutes ago, Enero said:

Hopefully why Moraine believed Rand’s declaration will be addressed in the next episode. 

I doubt it. The writing on this show isn't strong enough for me to expect that. But we'll see.

She wants to believe. Moiraine is the Fox Mulder of this Age. The show has been clear that it's literally her life's work. To be fair, they showed him channeling here when he broke down the door. I can buy that when he knocked on the door and said, "It's me," that he told her he thought he channeled then. Looking at Moiraine in this episode, she knows she is way in deep, so she's going to take the risk. If it's not really Rand, and they both die, then the Dragon still lives on. 

[quarks]

Finding myself getting more and more into this show.

1. Maiden of the Spear, not ABOUT to let a little thing like giving birth get into the way of her killing some soldiers. Or she was really furious that they were interrupting her when she was trying to give birth. YOU DECIDE. Awesome scene, either way.

2. Min! Absolutely perfect casting, with just the right attitude of DO I HAVE TO FORESEE THIS STUFF, DO I REALLY HAVE TO FORESEE THINGS, OK, I WILL TELL YOU VAGUE THINGS ABOUT SPARKS CAN I GET BACK TO WORK NOW. Not to mention "Tell me I'm not the Dragon Reborn." "You aren't the Dragon Reborn." 

3. And Lan and Nynaeve realize that their on-screen chemistry cannot be resisted and just go for it! Lan revealing that yes, he's a sorta quasi king, and Nynaeve all, that explains things, and Egwene's little smirk when they returned.

4. Moiraine's hair has HAD IT. Just HAD IT. I can kinda see why.

5. I loved the little touch that those who trained in the Tower but didn't quite get there have rings without gems. And apparently keep wearing them, as a constant reminder of something they never achieved. Hmm.

6. The whole section of the Ways really did look a lot like Moira in Lord of the Rings, didn't it?

7. Where did Loial go in the second half of the episode? Did I miss something? I feel I missed something.

8. Nynaeve, unless you saw a dead body, and possibly even then, how can you possibly know that Padan Fain is dead?

9. Agreed that the Rand/Egwene/Perrin love triangle was, how to put this, not one of the stronger moments in this episode. I think the show has been signaling that Perrin had some additional guilt beyond just killing his wife, and signaling some feelings for Egwene, but the actual reveal felt awkward, and not just because it was awkward for all four people in it.

[Anduin]

2 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I tend to think in this genre prophecies are a bit of a crutch to force plot. A prophecy is just a guess that happens to be true. However to be a little fair here, this is a world where people believe in literal reincarnation. Moraine's whole purpose is to find the reincarnation of the Dragon. 

Also to be fair, in general, I'd say a prophecy probably doesn't mean what you think it means, but I can't really call out anyone actually believing in prophecy here. Because it's kind of history at the same time. 

Thank you!

[Zonk]

5 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

She wants to believe. Moiraine is the Fox Mulder of this Age. The show has been clear that it's literally her life's work. To be fair, they showed him channeling here when he broke down the door. I can buy that when he knocked on the door and said, "It's me," that he told her he thought he channeled then. Looking at Moiraine in this episode, she knows she is way in deep, so she's going to take the risk. If it's not really Rand, and they both die, then the Dragon still lives on. 

Sure he channeled and that he channeled to break down the door we already knew in that episode, even though they left out the special effect. But that doesn't mean anything. The false dragon could channel and was more powerfull than all Aes Sedai.

And yeah she wants to believe, but she wants to believe that one of the five is that dragon, not that a specific one is the dragon. There is no reason she would believe it's Rand just because he channeled.

[paigow]

13 minutes ago, Zonk said:

And yeah she wants to believe, but she wants to believe that one of the five is that dragon, not that a specific one is the dragon. There is no reason she would believe it's Rand just because he channeled.

Whoever has the highest midichlorian count is the chosen one dragon... Perrin burning off his ropes with his mind is inconclusive??? Or did they leave that detail out of their escape story?

[Which Tyler]

30 minutes ago, paigow said:

Whoever has the highest midichlorian count is the chosen one dragon... Perrin burning off his ropes with his mind is inconclusive??? Or did they leave that detail out of their escape story?

Pretty sure that was Egwene's tiny fireball

[paigow]

3 minutes ago, Which Tyler said:

Pretty sure that was Egwene's tiny fireball

The one that did no damage to Dickhead Inquisitor???

[Which Tyler]

Just now, paigow said:

The one that did no damage to Dickhead Inquisitor???

I think it "missed" him - but I haven't rewatched to check

[UnoAgain]

I think that's where 8 episodes isn't enough... We got real questions that really should be clarified and were already coming up on the finale.. I feel we really haven't dug into the characters themselves yet and maybe an episode or two more woulda helped... 

[Jack Shaftoe]

2 hours ago, Zonk said:

Sure he channeled and that he channeled to break down the door we already knew in that episode, even though they left out the special effect. But that doesn't mean anything. The false dragon could channel and was more powerfull than all Aes Sedai.

I was going to say that it should have been obvious for Moiraine once Rand explained how he got to that conclusion but then I realized that she believes or doesn't believe fully in prophecies depending on the current needs of the plot and his "proof" hinges entirely on various prophecies, so... The writers' insistence to prolong the mystery as much as possible ended up making Moiraine look like a fool quite often because of her inconsistent attitude. Not taking at least Lan with her was inexplicable too, I am pretty sure there has been no mention of a prophecy saying "The Dragon shall face the Dark One all alone (well, except for Moirane Sedai who was there to give him one of her trademark pep talks)".

[Danny Franks]

5 hours ago, Which Tyler said:

Pretty sure that was Egwene's tiny fireball

I think she channelled twice. Once to make the fireball that distracted Valda, then again to burn Perrin's rope - she's looking right at the smouldering ropes as Valda mocks her. There's been no evidence that Perrin can channel.

4 hours ago, UnoAgain said:

I think that's where 8 episodes isn't enough... We got real questions that really should be clarified and were already coming up on the finale.. I feel we really haven't dug into the characters themselves yet and maybe an episode or two more woulda helped... 

Either two more episodes, or an extra ten minutes per episode, just to add a bit more depth and lore to the series. Amazon were determined not to let Rafe have quite as much time as he wanted for the season. There are things I'd have liked to see that give Rand more reason to believe he's the Dragon Reborn - either things he learns for himself or things Moiraine mentions that indicate his origin story and the Dragon's mesh.

[DoctorAtomic]

10 hours ago, quarks said:

7. Where did Loial go in the second half of the episode? Did I miss something? I feel I missed something.

 

He probably was in the library. Humans are loud and fussy. 

25 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

There are things I'd have liked to see that give Rand more reason to believe he's the Dragon Reborn - either things he learns for himself or things Moiraine mentions that indicate his origin story and the Dragon's mesh.

We can't really say, but yes, there's some more information or scenes that could have been added that would have made everyone feel a little better. There's a big clue when Rand meets Loial that also ties in this episode too, but I don't know if it landed. All of that has been on the screen so there's no book information coming out here. There was other information mentioned in passing when Moiraine and Siuan were talking privately. 

But right now, for sure, the prevailing opinion is correct - Rand can channel, and he thinks he's the Dragon. That's it. However, it's been consistent that Rand is protective of his friends too. Once Moiraine copped that the others might die, I can buy that he's thinking, 'well, I know I can channel at least, and I don't want the others to risk it'. I wouldn't even say that he actually thinks he's the Dragon, but he's the Dragon-enough. 

Also correct - Logain could channel big and thought he was the Dragon. He wasn't because Moiraine thinks the real Dragon Reborn is younger. They haven't literally stated what these so-called prophecies are, which would add to the discussion. Also correct - Ny is perfectly correct in questioning Moiraine. We're only going on Moiraine's word. 

I think that's fine though. And we still have one more episode. There's no reason that we can't go into the second season still questioning whether the Dragon is really Rand or not. Or that Rand might question himself. To be fair, they're doing an A- job in adapting this story, so I think it will bear out, and we'll get a definitive answer at some point if not next week. 

Don't forget, at this point, Siuan had only had a dream that the dark one is weak and is at the Eye. Moiraine realizes this is a time sensitive issue, and given how out of sorts she was this episode - 

• She's sick and tired of not knowing, and Rand pops up and says he channeled
• Traveling with the whole lot of a bunch of country kids
• No idea what to do with Ny who would argue with her whether water is wet
• Not much of anything with Min's visions

She's not the most reliable narrator, and she's been doing this her whole life. Now she's banned from her girlfriend on top of that. I think she's just over everything and wants to roll the hard six. She also knows damn well that she has no idea what they're going to find at the Eye or what to do when they get there. I think she's confident enough that Rand is forthright and wouldn't be turned to the dark. He's not nuts from the power either. All he's done is knock a door down though. Not quite Logain level at this point. 

Edited December 18, 2021 by DoctorAtomic

[UnoAgain]

26 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

I think she channelled twice. Once to make the fireball that distracted Valda, then again to burn Perrin's rope - she's looking right at the smouldering ropes as Valda mocks her. There's been no evidence that Perrin can channel.

Either two more episodes, or an extra ten minutes per episode, just to add a bit more depth and lore to the series. Amazon were determined not to let Rafe have quite as much time as he wanted for the season. There are things I'd have liked to see that give Rand more reason to believe he's the Dragon Reborn - either things he learns for himself or things Moiraine mentions that indicate his origin story and the Dragon's mesh.

True.. I only knew because before the series... I happened to just look into the book series.. And got spoiled like... Almost instantly as to who the dragon was ( at least in the book)  so when the synopsis came and it said all 5... I.. As a non book reader... And general fan of just using the source material.. But not being all dogmatic about it... Was hopeful we'd see some deviation... But... As it stands... It's Bland Rand  as the savior.. And 3 black folks bagger vancing... Won't stop me watching every Friday.. And maybe they'll add some layers to spice it up

[Danny Franks]

3 minutes ago, UnoAgain said:

True.. I only knew because before the series... I happened to just look into the book series.. And got spoiled like... Almost instantly as to who the dragon was ( at least in the book)  so when the synopsis came and it said all 5... I.. As a non book reader... And general fan of just using the source material.. But not being all dogmatic about it... Was hopeful we'd see some deviation... But... As it stands... It's Bland Rand  as the savior.. And 3 black folks bagger vancing... Won't stop me watching every Friday.. And maybe they'll add some layers to spice it up

I think one of the reasons we spent so much time with other characters, in the lead up to the reveal, is to get the message across that everyone is important, not just Rand.

I mean, Nynaeve is still apparently the strongest channeller the White Tower has found in a thousand years, Egwene is also able to become an Aes Sedai and Perrin has his wolf connection, and Moiraine is still the only person who has the first clue as to what's going on. I don't think we're going to see them all just becoming sidekicks to Rand.