It's a Wonderful Life (1946)

[proserpina65]

On 11/13/2021 at 12:55 AM, SeanC said:

Also, for the most part George was already reasonably happy with his life

See, I never saw him as all that happy with his life.

On 11/13/2021 at 2:45 PM, Wiendish Fitch said:

Or he can become drunk with power with the knowledge that everyone's lives would suck without him, uses it to lord over people, and basically becomes Potter 2.0.

Damn, I do spend too much time on the internet if I'm trying to spin everything into a dark villain origin story...

Calling Disney - THIS is the villain origin story you need to make.

On 11/14/2021 at 9:27 AM, raven said:

With the possible exception of George taking over the Building & Loan when his father dies, each instance of George making the choice between leaving and staying  - he stays willingly, sometimes happily. 

Except that I don't see any of his choices as being all the willing, never mind happy.  He does what he thinks he has to do to help others but no one else ever sacrifices anything for him.

 

[PaulaO]

I adore this movie.   I've seen it so many times on tv and of course I own the DVD.  Sadly I am tired of it and can't watch it but I feel that way about many of my favorite movies.  One of the most romantic scenes of ANY movie is Jimmy Stewart asking Mary if she wants the moon because he will lasso it for it and moonbeams will shoot out her fingertips.  Lawd, I wish a man said that to me.  But I am a librarian who wear glasses.  Divorced, not a spinster.  And yes, Uncle Billy should have had his ass kicked repeatedly.

[AgathaC]

I’m enjoying the philosophical discussion but my contribution is a bit more basic. The first time I watched this movie, I was about 12 years old and I have to say, the scene with George and Mary pressed together, listening to the telephone was the most erotic thing I’d ever seen at that point. (Ok, I’m sure I saw other sexually charged things but I happened to see this at a time when I was actually becoming aware.) The chemistry was just oozing off the screen.

[SlovakPrincess]

On 11/12/2021 at 8:34 AM, Wildcard said:

I've waffled between loving the movie, liking the movie, and trying to avoid it at all costs.

However, the Onion's review of the movie made me watch it in a different perspective.

 

 

I'm crying I'm laughing so hard!  This is just pure truth right here, from the Onion movie reviewer!  LOL.

I actually really do love this movie and watch it every year.  I love Jimmy Stewart in it.  His speech to Potter about the people who deserve decent housing because they "do most of the living and working and paying and dying" in the community is one of cinema's best moments ever.  The theme of how a good person who demands a lot of themselves can get ground down and lose all hope because life is truly unfair sometimes really resonates ... especially the acknowledgement that Christmas can be a horrifically stressful time when people are easily distracted (AHEM, Uncle Billy!  Pay attention to what you're doing!!).  And I love how George is ultimately shown that he shouldn't have let the cynicism of life being hard and Potter's insinuations get to him -- the town did not turn on him when he was in trouble or "run him out on a rail" like Potter claimed they would, they did not assume he was to blame or get mad that for once he wasn't perfect, and instead they immediately rallied around to help him.  They were true friends and appreciated all he'd sacrificed for them for years.  And really thank God for Mary, the only one who keeps her cool and gets to work solving the problem on Christmas Eve!  

 

However.  Let's talk about fucking Harry, the younger brother.  He sexually harasses the Bailey family's housekeeper (and I'm not even going to get into the stereotypical presentation of Annie, the only Black character in the film because yikes).   And then he gets his ass married without telling the family -- poor Ma Bailey!  She probably would've liked to see her youngest son get married!  Especially since her husband is dead and her oldest son is always low-key depressed and either working or hanging out at the library reading about all the travel he can't take.   And I know George makes the decision to not make Harry take over the Building and Loan like they agreed (so George can finally go to college) ... but from what we see of Harry, I have a hard time imagining he fought George too hard on this.   Uggggghh.  Harry Bailey.  

Anyway, it would really be in the best interests of Bedford Falls to pool their money and send George on a vacation at least biannually, so the poor guy doesn't get burnt out and suicidal again.  

 

 

 

[SlovakPrincess]

As an added criticism, I do laugh every year about the "horror" of Mary being an "old maid" in the alternate timeline.  Mary actually made out pretty well in Pottersville: she's got the only decent job in town and is not saddled with whatever bitter alcoholic husband she otherwise might've had in that dystopian world!   Certainly better than being a Dime-a-Dance lady getting thrown into the back of a police van like poor old Violet!  

Although it's mildly hilarious that Pottersville even HAS a library.  The town's establishments are a corrupt police force, Potter's bank, pawn shops, the bars, the "GIRLS! GIRLS! GIRLS!" nightclubs, one bitter cab driver .... and a really nicely maintained public library.  

[Wiendish Fitch]

31 minutes ago, SlovakPrincess said:

However.  Let's talk about fucking Harry, the younger brother.  He sexually harasses the Bailey family's housekeeper (and I'm not even going to get into the stereotypical presentation of Annie, the only Black character in the film because yikes).   And then he gets his ass married without telling the family -- poor Ma Bailey!  She probably would've liked to see her youngest son get married!  Especially since her husband is dead and her oldest son is always low-key depressed and either working or hanging out at the library reading about all the travel he can't take.   And I know George makes the decision to not make Harry take over the Building and Loan like they agreed (so George can finally go to college) ... but from what we see of Harry, I have a hard time imagining he fought George too hard on this.   Uggggghh.  Harry Bailey.  

I'm tellin' ya, I really think George should have pulled a Danny Kaye from White Christmas and point to his deaf ear to guilt Harry into doing his bidding, at least that one time.

[SomeTameGazelle]

There was an entire category devoted to It's A Wonderful Life on Jeopardy yesterday. Nothing very deep but one clue was about the rights issue. 

[Dandesun]

I think it's actually quite hilarious that Pottersville was obviously the blueprint for Back to the Future 2 when Biff turned Hill Valley into his own personal Atlantic City knock off.

 

[Calvada]

9 hours ago, SlovakPrincess said:

 

I'm crying I'm laughing so hard!  This is just pure truth right here, from the Onion movie reviewer!  LOL.

I actually really do love this movie and watch it every year.  I love Jimmy Stewart in it.  His speech to Potter about the people who deserve decent housing because they "do most of the living and working and paying and dying" in the community is one of cinema's best moments ever.  The theme of how a good person who demands a lot of themselves can get ground down and lose all hope because life is truly unfair sometimes really resonates ... especially the acknowledgement that Christmas can be a horrifically stressful time when people are easily distracted (AHEM, Uncle Billy!  Pay attention to what you're doing!!).  And I love how George is ultimately shown that he shouldn't have let the cynicism of life being hard and Potter's insinuations get to him -- the town did not turn on him when he was in trouble or "run him out on a rail" like Potter claimed they would, they did not assume he was to blame or get mad that for once he wasn't perfect, and instead they immediately rallied around to help him.  They were true friends and appreciated all he'd sacrificed for them for years.  And really thank God for Mary, the only one who keeps her cool and gets to work solving the problem on Christmas Eve!  

 

This is the redeeming moment for me, when George says that people deserve to live in a decent house without crawling to Potter.  Remember, this film was made immediately after World War II and I'm sure there were millions of Americans who identified with that statement after growing up in the Depression and then serving in the military or sacrificing on the home front.  The audience in 1946 would have memories of the Depression, when so many lost savings when banks failed or lost property taken by bankers.  My parents served in the war - my dad in the navy and my mom in war industry - and it was their dream to have their own home.  They needed a lender like George Bailey, who shared their commitment to the community, to take a chance on them.

I agree however that the story of alternate universe Mary is ridiculous, Harry Bailey is incredibly selfish, and Uncle Billy should not be put in charge of any sum of money greater than a penny for the gumball machine.  

 

[graybrown bird]

20 hours ago, Calvada said:

This is the redeeming moment for me, when George says that people deserve to live in a decent house without crawling to Potter.  Remember this film was made immediately after World War II

Yes, and there was a terrible housing shortage and much worry about whether all those returning soldiers could find jobs. This is a movie about the immediate aftermath of the war, every bit as much as "The Best Years of Our Lives" was.

[MJ Frog]

On 11/16/2021 at 6:28 PM, raven said:

The differing perspectives are interesting.

They are indeed. I am beginning to feel like I watched a different movie from the one many others here did. Maybe there's a Star Trek mirror universe version out there where George is a poor hapless slave to everyone else's desires and decided to off himself under the pressure. That was not the movie I saw and fell in love with. Ah well, not everything resonates with everybody.

[HyeChaps]

George seemed pretty happy when he was walking around town, smoking his pipe, and bragging about Harry.

[SlovakPrincess]

3 hours ago, HyeChaps said:

George seemed pretty happy when he was walking around town, smoking his pipe, and bragging about Harry.

I think he actually has a pretty good life for the most part (or as good as most people could expect in the midst of a depression and then war - he likes his family, likes his neighbors and likes that he's in a position to help them, even if he hates the day to day of his job), but when things get incredibly stressful or you're in a crisis, it's only natural to feel wistful and even resentful about how your life turned out.   Most of us have at least one dream we didn't get to fulfill, and George had more than a few.

[Captain Carrot]

I agree, it's only natural to focus on your regrets instead of what you're happy about when you're in crisis.

[Anela]

My dad wondered why this movie was number ten in a list of the best Christmas movies.  I told him about this thread.  :) 

[Lady Whistleup]

This movie cuts deeper every year I watch it. I think as you get older you see more of yourself in George Bailey. I certainly do.

[starri]

One thing that registered for the first time this year:

There are Black people amongst the crowd that comes to rescue George. Which means that he lent money, fairly, to everyone.  By itself, that’s a pretty big statement. 

[Fool to cry]

We all laugh now at the reveal of Mary's horrible alternate fate being an "old maid librarian" but it makes sense. When Bedford Falls became Pottersville probably most of the men in town turned into horny, drunken sleazebags! I don't blame her if she didn't want to pursue any romance and social interaction in that environment.

Edited December 25, 2021 by Fool to cry

[Wiendish Fitch]

One of the reasons that Mary being an unmarried librarian is supposed to be viewed as a fate worse than death is because Frank Capra was a loud and proud anti-intellectual. Capra honestly sounded like a right douchebag to me.

@Ohiopirate02 had this to say in the Unpopular Opinions thread:

Quote

I still need something else to tie Mary's personality change into the existence of George Bailey.  Make the little boy who almost died due to the pharmacist's mistake be her brother or have Mary be the daughter of the pharmacist or George's brother does something to help Mary and her family as children.  Just something to show why Mary grew up different because Alt. Mary has some underlying trauma with no textual basis.

I think this is brilliant. If the little boy were Mary's brother, then his death would not only be traumatic on its own, but he died at the hands of beloved pharmacist Mr. Gower (yes, we know it was an accident, but still), and that would certainly create trust issues that won't go away overnight.

I mean, Mary was at the drug store the day it happened, maybe she could feel guilty that she didn't know it happened and therefore couldn't stop it. 

That, and maybe a failed engagement with Sam (Sam's a bit of a jerk, but I don't buy that he'd be abusive) is what caused her to be a withdrawn "spinster".

BTW, I still think Donna Reed looks nice even as a tragic librarian. It's akin to Grace Kelly's "dowdy" look in The Country Girl. 

Edited August 28, 2023 by Wiendish Fitch

[Spartan Girl]

Second all this @Wiendish Fitch. I like believing in soul mates and true love and all that stuff but yeah, I need more concrete evidence that Mary’s life would have been impacted by George’s absence.

[EtheltoTillie]

I saw this exchange earlier today in the other thread.  You guys crack me up!  You're taking this so seriously LOL. 

Now, that said, I am in the camp that loves the movie.  So I just can't worry about the frumpy librarian sequence.  It's just a movie maker's way of saying the opposite would have happened if George hadn't been around.  It doesn't have to be realistic.  But I'm enjoying this conversation. 

[HyeChaps]

Her eyesight would have gone bad?

[Ohiopirate02]

42 minutes ago, HyeChaps said:

Her eyesight would have gone bad?

Or it was always bad and Mary was stumbling through life without being able to see clearly.  

[AimingforYoko]

I've been rethinking my long-held position that Uncle Billy was the second worst character behind Potter. Who do you really blame in that position: The idiot who lost $8k or the person who assigned the idiot with that task? Can the idiot really help that he's an idiot? George should've known better.

[JAYJAY1979]

I had three of my cousin's Gen Z kids watch It's a Wonderful Life because they had never heard nor seen it.

What surprised me was that the fact that they loved the dance scene at the high school gym, and how they wished people were more polite and warm with one another.

The consensus of all three of them was that Mary was the MVP of the movie.. and they all thought she was beautiful in both realities.  

[SlovakPrincess]

On 8/28/2023 at 4:08 PM, Ohiopirate02 said:

Or it was always bad and Mary was stumbling through life without being able to see clearly.  

But she renovated an entire house by herself in Bedford Falls!

Look, it's weird Pottersville even bothered to have a library, Potter probably underfunded it.  Maybe it was poorly lit and understaffed so overworked librarian Mary lost her eyesight faster.