S03.E12: I Want to Talk to Your Parents

[BellasMom]

On 11/2/2021 at 10:05 PM, Ms.Lulu said:

As anyone else unsurprised that Micah is dressing up as a bosomy women as a prank?

That was Max

[Mothra]

On 11/3/2021 at 1:33 PM, brewgirl said:

Isaac - Good grief, TLC...not in any way, shape, or form is it safe to ride on a truck like that. Especially with one hand, and it looked like the truck wasn't exactly creeping out of the yard. Maybe he jumped off pretty quickly but I thought that scene was weird to show. Especially since Ethan and Olivia had already said their goodbyes to the kids, including Isaac.

Especially in a family that has already lost a child to an intra-family car accident.

[SongbirdHollow]

Why did they move to Tampa in particular? Did Ethan and Moriah have jobs in mind? Olivia travels for work so she just needs to be near an airport. What about Max?

Also, Micah suddenly moving to LA is all kind of suss. 

[Jeanne222]

1 hour ago, SongbirdHollow said:

Why did they move to Tampa in particular? Did Ethan and Moriah have jobs in mind? Olivia travels for work so she just needs to be near an airport. What about Max?

Also, Micah suddenly moving to LA is all kind of suss. 

As I understand it Moriah decided to move to Tampa with Max to follow later.  Ethan and Olivia thought that sounded good and decided to go too.  They will live together, share the rent and have each other. 

I'm most interested in why Moriah, in the beginning,  was heading down there all alone?  She scares me. 

[JayDub1987]

34 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

As I understand it Moriah decided to move to Tampa with Max to follow later.  Ethan and Olivia thought that sounded good and decided to go too.  They will live together, share the rent and have each other. 

I'm most interested in why Moriah, in the beginning,  was heading down there all alone?  She scares me. 

I do think Moriah has a tendency to act first and think later. Although, considering her incredibly stifled upbringing, that's not that shocking.

[SongbirdHollow]

But what’s IN Tampa that she/they  are there for? 

[mom2two]

Tampa is the closest city (besides Atlanta) , and is much warmer, with a beach.   Compared to where they currently live, and even Tallahasee, there is probably a broader job market in general, and more gyms, if she wanted to continue to teach.  Just made sense are the largest metro area with perks.  Same with Ethan is that he can find a place to work pretty easily as well.    Max  I seem to recall , has his own business, and maybe needed time to shift it.   Personally I am planning on retiring somewhere in the Tampa area myself.

[gingerella]

6 hours ago, SongbirdHollow said:

Why did they move to Tampa in particular? Did Ethan and Moriah have jobs in mind? Olivia travels for work so she just needs to be near an airport. What about Max?

Also, Micah suddenly moving to LA is all kind of suss. 

Why is it 'all kinds of suss'? Micah is modeling and he said on his call that he wants to try his hand at acting. He's not going to be doing that in Tampa. He has to be in LA or NY, and for the look Micah has, he's way more LA than NY, IMO. He can do that surfer dude look and there are more opportunities to get regular modeling gigs to live off of while trying to learn about acting and get jobs. It's a bit naive to think he's going to 'try acting' when he knows zero about it and appears to have no formal training, but it's LA, home of wannabe actors so hopefully his modeling agency has good guidance and can steer him towards acting classes, etc.

1 hour ago, SongbirdHollow said:

But what’s IN Tampa that she/they  are there for? 

They said they'd been there before and it was like 'the BIG CITY' to them, they're small town folks, so moving from Cairo, GA to Tampa, FL is huge for them. It IS The Big City. I think Tampa has more culture and arts than Tallahassee does so that's probably a draw for Moriah and Olivia, and Ethan is going with Olivia because he just wants to experience new things. Hopefully they'll move out of the SE entirely and move somewhere more cosmopolitan, but this is  good first step I think.

[greeneyedscorpio]

1 hour ago, SongbirdHollow said:

But what’s IN Tampa that she/they  are there for? 

I don't think it's anything in particular.  4-5 hours away from Kim is the main reason, I think.  

[bichonblitz]

4 hours ago, SongbirdHollow said:

But what’s IN Tampa that she/they  are there for? 

I don't know. I lived in the Tampa area, it ain't all that. I guess to these country folk maybe it is. And maybe it feels like the big city to them. 

9 hours ago, SongbirdHollow said:

Also, Micah suddenly moving to LA is all kind of suss. 

They way he did it is definitely suss. Unless that was all for drama and they all really knew he was moving there. Hopefully he decided to take his modeling career more seriously and if so LA would be a great place for it. 

[SongbirdHollow]

Yes, I understand why Micah went to LA, but the sudden departure was very weird. 

[gingerella]

7 hours ago, SongbirdHollow said:

Yes, I understand why Micah went to LA, but the sudden departure was very weird. 

I doubt it went down like that. It's the editing monkeys. Moriah looked and acted like she was reenacting his leaving and pretending it was sudden. I very much doubt it was because he sold his Boat which doesn't happen in mere hours, right? It's producer driven shenanigans.

[Loves2Dance]

On 11/3/2021 at 10:55 PM, Jeanne222 said:

Actually I like the new hair colors. My friend wears a beautiful burgundy and my daughter was sporting a beautiful lavender. 

However Moriah’s was too hard for her small features. I know she had it done professionally but it looked cheap and way over done. 

Moriah can get away with her ‘look’ in Cairo because most know her and will leave her alone but I really worry about her ‘look’ in a place she’s unknown!

Trust me, Moriah’s look isn’t out of place in Tampa. She’ll be fine. 

[salvame]

The inconsistencies and lovelessness of the parents really bugs me. They seem OK with Hosanna and her life, condemn Ethan and all his choices, initially force Micah and Moriah out the door, but then welcome them and support their new freedoms, while still making Ethan out to be married to the devil incarnate. I'm just glad Ethan and his siblings still have a relationship. Plus I'm amazed that Ethan hasn't totally gone off the deep end, as at times, it seems he has no right way to turn. I have to remind myself that editing plays a large part in this type of show, but a lot of this appears to have actually happened. Barry and his resting-stupid-grin-face just reminds me of a turtle, and I have all I can do to not ff when he is on screen. They "forgave" Olivia (for what?), but did they every really apologize to her? If I recall, wasn't it more of an "I'm sorry if you felt that we treated you badly" apology, rather than actually taking ownership for their treatment of the couple? 

[MMLEsq]

On 11/3/2021 at 1:55 PM, JayDub1987 said:

Gah, I hated the scene with Isaac riding on the back of the truck. Especially when this show has talked about Kim killing the one kid with a car. Stupid scene.

I didn't see any place to talk about "Steamy Nights in Cairo" episodes, but in the "Do You Know Your Partner?" one the very first question they showed was "Who is the better driver?" and both Barry and Kim said Kim.  Awkward!!!  My first thought was, "oh, the one that ran over her son is the better driver...?"

On 11/3/2021 at 9:44 PM, Pattycake2 said:

I liked Moriah’s hair.  So much better than those trashy two toned extensions and red lipstick.  The new look is right on trend.  Also, to be fair, Micah said he was living in the West Hollywood Hills.  He probably meant Hollywood Hills West which is above Sunset and contains Laurel Canyon.  It was weird how he just took off.  I wonder if he had a fight with production.

Definitely better than the two-toned extensions -- they looked awful!

Edited November 13, 2021 by MMLEsq

[Teri313]

I could be completely off here, but I get the feeling that something happened between Micah and Max. Micah's plan was to stay in Cairo after Moriah's move to Tampa. He said he was looking forward to having the house to himself, and that he could easily afford it. Then the next thing we know, the production crew seems blindsided by the fact that he cleared out. Moriah cryptically says he's gone. They get Ethan to facetime him and he's moved clear to the other side of the country. Apparently without really even discussing it with anyone. There is always so much sexual-ish horseplay between him and Max, which seems to be instigated by Max, that I wonder if something happened. If it went too far and he freaked out and ran. Afterall, with Moriah gone and Max still in town, it could be too much for him. Well, like I said, I could be completely off, but his departure seemed ominous and extreme. Or that might just be how production framed it and I'm falling for it.

Edited November 17, 2021 by Teri313
Typo

[jacksgirl]

Ethan hit the nail on the head talking with Kool-aid drinker Lydia. Discussing God's will vs Kim and Barry's will was very insightful on his part. Rooting for Olivia and Ethan, they married too young, but I think they can be happy.

[Back Atcha]

On 11/5/2021 at 12:58 AM, BellasMom said:

On 11/2/2021 at 7:05 PM, Ms.Lulu said:

As anyone else unsurprised that Micah is dressing up as a bosomy women as a prank?

That was Max

And, yes, I would have been surprised.  MAX did an excellent job.

 

[Back Atcha]

On 11/12/2021 at 10:46 AM, salvame said:

They "forgave" Olivia (for what?), but did they every really apologize to her?

KIM will never apologize to anyone for anything.  Ever. Narcissize much?

On 11/13/2021 at 9:26 AM, MMLEsq said:

didn't see any place to talk about "Steamy Nights in Cairo" episodes, but in the "Do You Know Your Partner?" one the very first question they showed was "Who is the better driver?" and both Barry and Kim said Kim.  Awkward!!!  My first thought was, "oh, the one that ran over her son is the better driver...?"

Barry KNOWS what answer he's required to provide.  On a good day, Kim's difficult to handle; can you imagine her wrath?

[Loves2Dance]

On 11/17/2021 at 2:51 PM, Teri313 said:

I could be completely off here, but I get the feeling that something happened between Micah and Max. Micah's plan was to stay in Cairo after Moriah's move to Tampa. He said he was looking forward to having the house to himself, and that he could easily afford it. Then the next thing we know, the production crew seems blindsided by the fact that he cleared out. Moriah cryptically says he's gone. They get Ethan to facetime him and he's moved clear to the other side of the country. Apparently without really even discussing it with anyone. There is always so much sexual-ish horseplay between him and Max, which seems to be instigated by Max, that I wonder if something happened. If it went too far and he freaked out and ran. Afterall, with Moriah gone and Max still in town, it could be too much for him. Well, like I said, I could be completely off, but his departure seemed ominous and extreme. Or that might just be how production framed it and I'm falling for it.

I doubt it. Micah is at an age where he can just pick up and go. He sold his boat so there had to be some premeditation. I think they upped the drama for the show. 

[Witchz]

As a person who watched this show from the very first show I have to say I totally disagree with what Olivia did and how she has been carrying herself this whole last season.  She has clearly been a strong instigator in Ethan and his parents problems.  And my advice to her would be to back off a bit - to be a wedge between your spouse and his family is not winning at all- even if he picks you at the moment and you can not stand his parents.  It is different to support him if he wants to break from his parents of his own accord BUT to be the active cause will only cause resentment from Ethan .  Deep down someday it will - you do not want to be the builder of his wall between him and his parents.  

 

I think that her incessant need to confront Ethans parents and to demand with him that the parents do what they want is - ridiculous on every level and then after they have given in almost every time (last two seasons) to their little rants with them those two cant even give them anything.  They do not consider their feelings at all and Ethan just downright wants and enjoys hurting them in front of his wife.  I dont see how anyone can be supportive of their behavior towards his parents.  I do not agree with the way they are raising their children entirely BUT I have seen much worse on reality tv.  

For Barry to say that he wont give advice to Moriah or Micah unless asked and the way they are so desperate to be included  in their childrens lives is sad- maybe they should of stood their ground and maybe then the kids would know what it is like to be really controlled and judged? I was kicked out at a young age and my mother did not sit around waiting for my visit and when I did she did not ever gloat over my every move and beg to be allowed to see me or my home.  Bottom line I knew that she did not approve of my behavior or life and if it bothered me I would have to change it a lot.  You know she was right in the end and once I realized that many years later I was so glad that she was strong in her belief that I was not being the best I could for myself.  Period.  She did not enable my bad choices.  Not saying the kids are making bad choices totally BUT Kim and Barry are not even allowed or considered which I find disrespectful. 

They did not have to listen to Olivia or give her any platform to give her little speech but they did.  Bigger of them and they were thanked by her and their son by denial of a hug for his mother before they moved to another state.  Bravo you two - Good Luck in Life and I hope you get what you give!!

 

I want to know why we were not allowed to see where Olivia was living and with whom she was during the "breakup" ? Seemed either very weird and shady or made up for tv. I think that was as strange as Micah running off to LA. 

[Teri313]

11 hours ago, Witchz said:

As a person who watched this show from the very first show I have to say I totally disagree with what Olivia did and how she has been carrying herself this whole last season.  She has clearly been a strong instigator in Ethan and his parents problems.  And my advice to her would be to back off a bit - to be a wedge between your spouse and his family is not winning at all- even if he picks you at the moment and you can not stand his parents.  It is different to support him if he wants to break from his parents of his own accord BUT to be the active cause will only cause resentment from Ethan .  Deep down someday it will - you do not want to be the builder of his wall between him and his parents.  

 

I think that her incessant need to confront Ethans parents and to demand with him that the parents do what they want is - ridiculous on every level and then after they have given in almost every time (last two seasons) to their little rants with them those two cant even give them anything.  They do not consider their feelings at all and Ethan just downright wants and enjoys hurting them in front of his wife.  I dont see how anyone can be supportive of their behavior towards his parents.  I do not agree with the way they are raising their children entirely BUT I have seen much worse on reality tv.  

For Barry to say that he wont give advice to Moriah or Micah unless asked and the way they are so desperate to be included  in their childrens lives is sad- maybe they should of stood their ground and maybe then the kids would know what it is like to be really controlled and judged? I was kicked out at a young age and my mother did not sit around waiting for my visit and when I did she did not ever gloat over my every move and beg to be allowed to see me or my home.  Bottom line I knew that she did not approve of my behavior or life and if it bothered me I would have to change it a lot.  You know she was right in the end and once I realized that many years later I was so glad that she was strong in her belief that I was not being the best I could for myself.  Period.  She did not enable my bad choices.  Not saying the kids are making bad choices totally BUT Kim and Barry are not even allowed or considered which I find disrespectful. 

They did not have to listen to Olivia or give her any platform to give her little speech but they did.  Bigger of them and they were thanked by her and their son by denial of a hug for his mother before they moved to another state.  Bravo you two - Good Luck in Life and I hope you get what you give!!

 

I want to know why we were not allowed to see where Olivia was living and with whom she was during the "breakup" ? Seemed either very weird and shady or made up for tv. I think that was as strange as Micah running off to LA. 

I think that Kim and Olivia are cut from the same cloth. They are both very controlling and manipulative. The difference is Kim isn't clever about it. She kind of does it right in front of everyone. And when she does try to hide it, it's obvious. Olivia, on the other hand, is very aware of what she's doing and always has the right words to cover her ass. She seemed to get better at it during the second season - probably because she learned from watching herself on Season 1. And I'm really over her incessant psychoanalysis of them as individuals and as a couple.

I thought it was very conniving of her to volunteer to be in the band, and then, in her next breath, ban Kim and Berry from going to the "concert" - especially when it actually looked like it pained Moriah to have to agree to it. And then Ethan hunting them down and confronting them in the parking lot was ridiculous. Who cares? Just let them sit in the car and listen, and then leave. But he has to dig down and get belligerent for Olivia's sake, so she knows that he has the sufficient amount of hate for his parents to keep her feeling in control.

And as far as their upbringing goes, yeah, weird, but they also grew up on a beautiful farm and were safe and healthy. For Moriah to justify wearing shorts where her ass is literally hanging out for all to see by saying she had to dress the way her parents made her, so she will never let anyone tell her how to dress again, is just childish. Maybe it was weird and embarrassing, but parents make kids to lots of things that they don't like or that embarrasses them. If she loves and trusts Max, I think that she should trust him when he tells her she's gone too far.

[Madding crowd]

I’m kind of in the middle about Olivia and I despise Kim and Barry but I didn’t like Olivia constantly expecting Ethan to talk about the state of their marriage. I have been married 26 years and my husband hates endless feelings talk. Talking about shared goals once in awhile is ok but not every conversation. I’m really would like to see Ethan and Olivia just having fun without her turning everything into a teaching moment. I follow her on Instagram and she is traveling all over ( recently in Paris ). They must make good money from the show because I don’t think she makes a fortune on the wedding photography.

[Jeanne222]

Finally others seeing Olivia for the controlling , manipulating wife, daughter in law, sister in law she really is!

Bravo!

I don’t care for Kim and Barry but they really met their match in Olivia!

[readheaded]

On 12/4/2021 at 12:03 PM, Teri313 said:

I think that Kim and Olivia are cut from the same cloth. They are both very controlling and manipulative. The difference is Kim isn't clever about it. She kind of does it right in front of everyone. And when she does try to hide it, it's obvious. Olivia, on the other hand, is very aware of what she's doing and always has the right words to cover her ass. She seemed to get better at it during the second season - probably because she learned from watching herself on Season 1. And I'm really over her incessant psychoanalysis of them as individuals and as a couple.

I thought it was very conniving of her to volunteer to be in the band, and then, in her next breath, ban Kim and Berry from going to the "concert" - especially when it actually looked like it pained Moriah to have to agree to it. And then Ethan hunting them down and confronting them in the parking lot was ridiculous. Who cares? Just let them sit in the car and listen, and then leave. But he has to dig down and get belligerent for Olivia's sake, so she knows that he has the sufficient amount of hate for his parents to keep her feeling in control.

And as far as their upbringing goes, yeah, weird, but they also grew up on a beautiful farm and were safe and healthy. For Moriah to justify wearing shorts where her ass is literally hanging out for all to see by saying she had to dress the way her parents made her, so she will never let anyone tell her how to dress again, is just childish. Maybe it was weird and embarrassing, but parents make kids to lots of things that they don't like or that embarrasses them. If she loves and trusts Max, I think that she should trust him when he tells her she's gone too far.

Olivia didn't volunteer; Moriah asked her and Olivia told her the terms under which she could say yes. Moriah knew the situation up front and agreed to those terms. 

[Teri313]

On 12/7/2021 at 5:22 PM, readheaded said:

Olivia didn't volunteer; Moriah asked her and Olivia told her the terms under which she could say yes. Moriah knew the situation up front and agreed to those terms. 

That's not true. From the last scene in Episode 4:

O: Whatcha doin’?

M: I am kind of figuring out some music stuff. Working on booking a  gig.

O: Oooooh! Where are you going to book a gig?

M: In Tallahassee maybe. I’m not sure yet. I’m  just looking around at places. It’s looking like I might  just do it by myself, maybe. So, I need time to practice.

O: Do you want  people to play with you?

M: I would absolutely love that. It would take some of the pressure off.

M [on the confessional cam]: Ever since we quit the family band – Ethan, Micah, and I quit the family band – we’ve all talked about like, we want to do music together, but it’s always been just like something, like what if some day we did  that? And then it never actually happens. So, my goal is to actually make that happen this time. I  just think it’s high time I get out there and put some music together.

O: Have you asked Micah?

M: I’ve asked him a gazillion times. He’s just like, yeah, that would be fun.  I’m like, alright, well…

O: Have you guys practiced at all?

M: No.

O: I’d be happy to play keyboard for you if you wanted.

M: I would like that.

O: I feel weird asking this, but if you don’t mind me asking – are your parents going to be there?

M: I mean, I… hadn’t really thought of that. I think that … maybe … I don’t know. I mean, I wish my little sisters could be there. And like, Ethan can come.

Then Olivia goes on to say she doesn’t want to do it if they come. So Olivia did bring it up and volunteer, and after Moriah agreed, she gave her the it’s-them-or-me ultimatum.

[RedDelicious]

Olivia also offered a few alternatives after the fact. It blows my mind that Kim’s toxic manipulation comes right through the tv screen. 

[Rootbeer]

4 hours ago, Teri313 said:

. So Olivia did bring it up and volunteer, and after Moriah agreed, she gave her the it’s-them-or-me ultimatum.

Moriah agreed, but they hadn't started practicing yet, she didn't have another keyboard player that she turned away.  Olivia told her she didn't want to play if the parents came and gave Moriah ample space to decline her offer.  Moriah didn't do that.  Olivia gave her plenty of options if she wanted Kim and Barry to see her play; Moriah made it clear that her first choice was to have Olivia play and she knew even before Olivia joined the band that Olivia wouldn't perform in front of the parents.  If isn't like Olivia waited until the night before the show and then announced that Moriah's mother and father couldn't come.  Or, for that matter, that Moriah couldn't have played without Olivia on keyboards.

[Teri313]

2 hours ago, RedDelicious said:

Olivia also offered a few alternatives after the fact. It blows my mind that Kim’s toxic manipulation comes right through the tv screen. 

 

2 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

Moriah agreed, but they hadn't started practicing yet, she didn't have another keyboard player that she turned away.  Olivia told her she didn't want to play if the parents came and gave Moriah ample space to decline her offer.  Moriah didn't do that.  Olivia gave her plenty of options if she wanted Kim and Barry to see her play; Moriah made it clear that her first choice was to have Olivia play and she knew even before Olivia joined the band that Olivia wouldn't perform in front of the parents.  If isn't like Olivia waited until the night before the show and then announced that Moriah's mother and father couldn't come.  Or, for that matter, that Moriah couldn't have played without Olivia on keyboards.

What were all of these options she gave her? All I saw was, either I'm in the band and your parents are prohibited from attending, or your parents may attend and I won't be there. And I didn't say anything about timelines. I was told that I was wrong about Olivia volunteering, and then after Moriah accepted, she put the stipulation on it. If I'm wrong, I'll admit I'm wrong - but I'm not on that point.

[Rootbeer]

On 12/8/2021 at 10:39 PM, Teri313 said:

 

What were all of these options she gave her? All I saw was, either I'm in the band and your parents are prohibited from attending, or your parents may attend and I won't be there. And I didn't say anything about timelines. I was told that I was wrong about Olivia volunteering, and then after Moriah accepted, she put the stipulation on it. If I'm wrong, I'll admit I'm wrong - but I'm not on that point.

What other options were needed? Olivia told Moriah upfront that she would play in the band as long as Barry and Kim weren't there.  Moriah knew and she had Olivia join the band.  There was no subterfuge on Olivia's part.  Moriah knew it was an either/or and she chose to have her play keyboards over her parents attending the concert.  I don't understand what other options could have been presented in this situation.  Moriah knew at the time Olivia joined the band that her parents would have to be excluded from any concerts.  It all happened at the same point in time. 

[Teri313]

On 12/8/2021 at 10:32 PM, Rootbeer said:

Olivia gave her plenty of options if she wanted Kim and Barry to see her play.

 

24 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

What other options were needed? Olivia told Moriah upfront that she would play in the band as long as Barry and Kim weren't there.  Moriah knew and she had Olivia join the band.  There was no subterfuge on Olivia's part.  Moriah knew it was an either/or and she chose to have her play keyboards over her parents attending the concert.  I don't understand what other options could have been presented in this situation.  Moriah knew at the time Olivia joined the band that her parents would have to be excluded from any concerts.  It all happened at the same point in time. 

I just asked you to clarify yourself. You said Olivia gave her plenty of options if she wanted Kim and Berry to be there. I asked what those were. Then you start challenging me on the need/possibilities for options? LOL. Let's just agree to disagree. We are all free to express our OPINIONS here, and that's what I've done.

[Rootbeer]

On 12/15/2021 at 10:40 AM, Teri313 said:

 

I just asked you to clarify yourself. You said Olivia gave her plenty of options if she wanted Kim and Berry to be there. I asked what those were. Then you start challenging me on the need/possibilities for options? LOL. Let's just agree to disagree. We are all free to express our OPINIONS here, and that's what I've done.

Sure, I think we differ on what constitutes plenty of options.  It's all good.  

[Back Atcha]

On 12/5/2021 at 4:38 PM, Jeanne222 said:

Finally others seeing Olivia for the controlling , manipulating wife, daughter in law, sister in law she really is!

I'm a viewer who DOES NOT see Olivia in this light...these lights.

[JayDub1987]

On 12/19/2021 at 2:22 AM, Back Atcha said:

I'm a viewer who DOES NOT see Olivia in this light...these lights.

I'm not sure how anyone can call Olivia a manipulative DIL. I don't think she's manipulating anyone. She's standing up for herself, and people really don't like that. But I'm not sure how she's manipulating Giant Kim and Grinnin' Barry. She doesn't even interact with them.

[Ms.Lulu]

2 hours ago, JayDub1987 said:

I'm not sure how anyone can call Olivia a manipulative DIL. I don't think she's manipulating anyone. She's standing up for herself, and people really don't like that. But I'm not sure how she's manipulating Giant Kim and Grinnin' Barry. She doesn't even interact with them.

100% agree.  

I think it is reasonable to say, "Kim and Barry have said I am filled with evil spirits so I can't be around them.  I understand that it means that it affects others and I won't be upset if you choose to include them and not me in any or all gatherings."

Manipulative would be demanding that either she or Kimwit & Barry can be in your life.  She has never demanded that.  

My mother treats my husband like Kim treats Olivia.  I am more upset than Mr. Lulu and I have chosen to limit contact with my mother.  Mr Lulu hasn't manipulated me.  If anything, he has given me the courage to do what I always wanted to do.  I imagine that Ethan feels the same way.

 

Edited December 23, 2021 by Ms.Lulu

[JayDub1987]

6 hours ago, Ms.Lulu said:

100% agree.  

I think it is reasonable to say, "Kim and Barry have said I am filled with evil spirits so I can't be around them.  I understand that it means that it affects others and I won't be upset if you choose to include them and not me in any or all gatherings."

Manipulative would be demanding that either she or Kimwit & Barry can be in your life.  She has never demanded that.  

My mother treats my husband like Kim treats Olivia.  I am more upset than Mr. Lulu and I have chosen to limit contact with my mother.  Mr Lulu hasn't manipulated me.  If anything, he has given me the courage to do what I always wanted to do.  I imagine that Ethan feels the same way.

 

I'm sorry that you have to deal with that. My wife's biological mother is a total piece of shit (she was adopted by her bio-mom's parents as a baby). However, she always kind of "dealt with" her mother because she felt like she had to. She says that I emboldened her to cut her mother out of her life, as well. I never gave an ultimatum, but I also made it clear that I wasn't going to be around the woman and that she was nothing to me. From what I've heard, I've been labeled as a "manipulator" and someone who "destroys families" too. 

[Witchz]

Well she seems to be manipulating Ethan by her constant need to move.  If he doesnt want to then she wants to leave him or seperate from him.  She also has him convinced that she is terrified to see Kim so much so that she wont perform with her around but then wants to stop by on their way out of town to give a little speech to Kim and Barry. Then has set the rule that they can not come to see Moriah either once moved but I thought she stopped at house to clear the air? 

[RedDelicious]

6 hours ago, Witchz said:

Well she seems to be manipulating Ethan by her constant need to move.

Maybe if Barry, Kim and Kim’s network of spies stopped following Olivia and Ethan wherever they try to go, Olivia wouldn’t feel the need to move. 

I’m still shocked that Barry, Kim and “the children” didn’t roll up to the adjacent campsite in Acadia.