S01.E05: Mask On Mask Off

[secnarf]

Quote

Halloween events affect each world in profoundly different ways. While some are putting on a mask to hide from reality, others are shedding theirs and confronting past choices.

Original air date: Oct 18 2021

[LittleIggy]

I thought Sky Masterson was the lead male role in Guys and Dolls. 

[nilyank]

So we find out a little bit more about Eric. He is bi-sexual and was pretty much raised by his dad while mom was mostly out of the picture due to her career.

Cop Joe - continues to be my favorite Joe and I can he listened to Eric and actually talked to Amy.

Nurse Joe - the dullest of all Joes. I don't care. So Nurse Joe is probably going to work for Bobby since he made that offer and he ended up not going to Atlanta. I didn't expect to Chris to be such a great singer.

Rocker Joe - ugh, I knew that I couldn't trust Bobby. As we have seen in Cop Joe, he is a manipulative as hell and he did everything to plants all those seeds of doubt in Amy.

Edited October 19, 2021 by nilyank

[KaveDweller]

So now I get to dislike Amy in the rockstar-verse too? I mean, I know Joe has been lying to her but maybe wait and get his side of the story before jumping into bed with someone else?

I did like finding out more about Uncle Frank. It seems he is different in the rockstar-verse because he got sober? And maybe is not alive in the nurse-verse. I do wonder where his wife is in the rockstar-verse. She is pretty present in the cop story. I'm not sure how Joe's career could impact all that though. Also not sure how Joe impacted Eric so much either (other than marrying/not marrying Amy), but am enjoying his storylines.

Bobby is super sleazy is the cop universe. Giving two women you are cheating with the same poem and the same note? 

I liked seeing Chris/Zeke making his wheelchair into a Halloween costume. And I liked seeing him sing. I guess he gets it from Joe. I'm glad Chris spoke up about not wanting to move, and I'm also glad Jenny is still going to Atlanta. 

I also like Jenny telling Joe he wasn't in a costume he was in a cowboy hat. Glad Joe took her advice when he made the very bad move of contacting Zeke. 

They said last week Zeke is in Binghamton, didn't they? That a few hours drive from NYC, is this going to be one of those shows that pretends geography doesn't exist and people can teleport from one city to another.

[LittleIggy]

1 hour ago, nilyank said:

So we find out a little bit more about Eric. He is bi-sexual and was pretty much raised by his mom.

You mean raised by his dad.

[Bumblebee84047]

Oh, rock star Joe Amy…

[magicdog]

2 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

So now I get to dislike Amy in the rockstar-verse too? I mean, I know Joe has been lying to her but maybe wait and get his side of the story before jumping into bed with someone else?

I was just going to post this!  She is so damn easy to manipulate!  

At least we know where the 100K went - the new vehicle for Zeke's family.

 

[nilyank]

18 minutes ago, magicdog said:

I was just going to post this!  She is so damn easy to manipulate!  

At least we know where the 100K went - the new vehicle for Zeke's family.

 

Bobby is one manipulative bastard. He first told her that Rocker Joe went upstate NY when he was going to stay at home. When Amy asked him what he did, he lied and said that he stayed at home writing a new song.

Next time Bobby says that Rocker Joe took 100k out of their bank account.

Then  Bobby shows her some opposition ads that depict her as a rocker's wife using his money to run for office and whereby Amy's people tell her that Joe should keep a low profile so she host the Halloween fundraiser out of town with Bobby while Joe stays at home.

Then Bobby shows a picture of Rocker Joe and Jenny in a parking lot dressed for Halloween.

Finally as they are heading back to their seperate hotel rooms, he conveniently drops his hotel key where she thinks it because of his Parkinson's but he claims because he was nervous and then finally puts the moves on her.

All under the guise of helping her campaign and being her friend.

Edited October 19, 2021 by nilyank

[LittleIggy]

Nurse Joe: Why is Jenny going to Atlanta at the end of October? She can’t start law school mid-semester. If she starts in the Spring semester, why not go after Xmas?

[magicdog]

4 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

Nurse Joe: Why is Jenny going to Atlanta at the end of October? She can’t start law school mid-semester. If she starts in the Spring semester, why not go after Xmas?

I thought about this too!  Law schools operate pretty much like any other college and even though she only had a year to complete her law degree, it would have made more sense for her to leave in July or August to leave for the fall semester.  The writers aren't really working all that hard are they?  Obviously we are getting the big mystery with Bobby and his political shenanigans which will eventually lead to a big reveal in all three timelines.

That Eric is revealed to be bi seemed shoehorned in.  To me it all rang false.  I don't think it was mentioned who the baby mamma was in the Rocker timeline was it?  When he mentioned being divorced, I think it was from a man not a woman. 

[LittleIggy]

Rocker Joe: I guess Eric used a surrogate. 

[KaveDweller]

16 hours ago, nilyank said:

All under the guise of helping her campaign and being her friend.

So messed up. Because of course if he and Amy have an affair and it comes out that hurts her campaign.

7 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

Nurse Joe: Why is Jenny going to Atlanta at the end of October? She can’t start law school mid-semester. If she starts in the Spring semester, why not go after Xmas?

They said something about an "externship", which I guess is like an internship? She was starting the next day. Which is why it would have been weird if she changed her plans last minute about not going. She'd already committed to starting.

But still weird that it would be arranged like that.

[funnygirl]

Even with the cheating, Amy is still > Jenny. 

Rockstar Joe has had multiple opportunities to tell his wife about his son, but he kept lying to her instead. It's annoying how he was hardly upset at Jenny when she told him that she had had their baby after all these years, but he gets to take advantage of Amy. Nurse Joe may be boring, but Rockstar Joe is the worst.

Edited October 20, 2021 by funnygirl

[pennben]

Oh no Joe, how are you always surrounded by ‘lesser’ women. I tried. I’m out. 

Edited October 20, 2021 by pennben

[bros402]

On 10/18/2021 at 11:16 PM, KaveDweller said:

So now I get to dislike Amy in the rockstar-verse too? I mean, I know Joe has been lying to her but maybe wait and get his side of the story before jumping into bed with someone else?

I did like finding out more about Uncle Frank. It seems he is different in the rockstar-verse because he got sober? And maybe is not alive in the nurse-verse. I do wonder where his wife is in the rockstar-verse. She is pretty present in the cop story. I'm not sure how Joe's career could impact all that though. Also not sure how Joe impacted Eric so much either (other than marrying/not marrying Amy), but am enjoying his storylines.

Bobby is super sleazy is the cop universe. Giving two women you are cheating with the same poem and the same note? 

I liked seeing Chris/Zeke making his wheelchair into a Halloween costume. And I liked seeing him sing. I guess he gets it from Joe. I'm glad Chris spoke up about not wanting to move, and I'm also glad Jenny is still going to Atlanta. 

I also like Jenny telling Joe he wasn't in a costume he was in a cowboy hat. Glad Joe took her advice when he made the very bad move of contacting Zeke. 

They said last week Zeke is in Binghamton, didn't they? That a few hours drive from NYC, is this going to be one of those shows that pretends geography doesn't exist and people can teleport from one city to another.

Well it shows that the Congressman is very manipulative.

I think in NurseVerse, Uncle Frank is either dead, a homeless drunk, or maybe ended up in prison because of something he did because he couldn't handle living with his misplaced guilt any longer.

I think Amy's gift is to make the people in her life the best possible - she seems like she is a very very very good organizer, so she can help herself and others.

I loved seeing the kid turning his wheelchair into a Halloween costume - it reminded me of JJ on Speechless having an R2D2 costume.

I am also happy he spoke up about not wanting to move and Jenny going to Atlanta - they get the best of both worlds. I sure hope that singing was the kid and not some dubbing, because if not, ugh.

This is definitely a show that is going to pretend geography doesn't exist - they'll pretend new york is just the city, with any other place being "i dunno, just a bit outside the city" - except Atlanta will be "WE WILL TAKE A ROAD TRIP!" (why not just fly there???)

12 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

Nurse Joe: Why is Jenny going to Atlanta at the end of October? She can’t start law school mid-semester. If she starts in the Spring semester, why not go after Xmas?

I have absolutely no idea - maybe the partners at her firm are hooking her up with a firm in Atlanta - or maybe they have an office down there - and they want her to become familiarized with the people down there before she starts in Spring.

So in this episode, I think this cemented Rocker Joe has my least favorite storyline - the characters make stupid decisions for stupid reasons. NurseJoe is bland, but it feels....understandable/relatable. CopJoe is a good storyline too.

I am still enjoying this show - but I hope if they get a back 6/8, they tighten things up, right now things need a bit of work and I think with just a bit more work it could become much better (for a network drama). I'd love if it were more of an Awake situation, but I do like that it is slowly unraveling the plot of the attempted assassination across the storylines - but I really hope they don't try to shoehorn stuff like that in every season just for the sake of trying to tie the Choices today, that would be so so so annoying.

[Cardie]

Nurse Joe family would road trip to Atlanta because Chris’s needs would make flying difficult.  And they have to drive his specially equipped van down there anyway if he’s moving. 

[magicdog]

12 hours ago, bros402 said:

I think in NurseVerse, Uncle Frank is either dead, a homeless drunk, or maybe ended up in prison because of something he did because he couldn't handle living with his misplaced guilt any longer.

I think we'll learn that in Nurse Joe's universe, Frank was killed during the bank robbery he described to Joe a couple episodes back.

Celeste is apparently Joe's sister!!  He mentioned while gardening in Cop Joe that his mom had [us] plant things so [we'd] eat [our] vegetables.  Plus, Eric in Nurse Joe said Celeste was one of the reasons Joe  had abandonment issues.  She must have died at some point.

So, Bobby Diaz is a conniver regardless of the timeline!  He has an affair with Amy in two of them, and had an affair with a former intern who dies under unusual circumstances.  Then we learn (in Cop Joe timeline) that he paid for her silence.  I'm curious where this will be going.  Now that Wayne Coleman was captured alive [in the Nurse Joe timeline], I'm curious what else he has to say.  Or for that matter, what he's planning in the Rocker Joe timeline since that shooting never took place (Joe's concert postponed Diaz' rally).  He may be waiting to strike soon.

[Moxie Cat]

On 10/18/2021 at 11:01 PM, LittleIggy said:

I thought Sky Masterson was the lead male role in Guys and Dolls. 

That was my reaction too! Details, people! I guess most people just remember that Sinatra was in the movie and assume he was the lead. Chris strikes me as a much better Nathan Detroit anyway. I'd love to see him and that little girl do "Sue Me."

Does anyone know about the actor's background in terms of singing? He's pretty amazing. This show has its faults, but I really admire that they created this character.

[LittleIggy]

55 minutes ago, Moxie Cat said:

That was my reaction too! Details, people! I guess most people just remember that Sinatra was in the movie and assume he was the lead. Chris strikes me as a much better Nathan Detroit anyway. I'd love to see him and that little girl do "Sue Me."

Does anyone know about the actor's background in terms of singing? He's pretty amazing. This show has its faults, but I really admire that they created this character.

I know it is his first acting gig. I saw an interview with him a couple of days ago. Amazing kid.

[bros402]

11 hours ago, Cardie said:

Nurse Joe family would road trip to Atlanta because Chris’s needs would make flying difficult.  And they have to drive his specially equipped van down there anyway if he’s moving. 

Oh true, in that case driving it down does make sense. Wait, have we even seen a van in NurseJoe timeline? I was just assuming they took accessible paratransit around

[Bookish Jen]

On 10/18/2021 at 10:16 PM, KaveDweller said:

So now I get to dislike Amy in the rockstar-verse too? I mean, I know Joe has been lying to her but maybe wait and get his side of the story before jumping into bed with someone else?

 

I missed this episode because I went to bed early, but Rock star Amy slept with that sleazebag Congressman? And I had so much faith in her that she was one of the "good ones." I wanted to see her win and go on to do really good things politically. Ugh.

[tennisgurl]

The only person I really like in the Rockstar Joe timeline now is Eric. Rockstar Joe hiding his child from Amy is really bad, but so is her sleeping with the sleezy congressman because she thinks her husband might be cheating, even though we know he isn't. Cant even wait to get his side of the story before jumping into bed with another man? The guy isn't even being transparent about how all of this "I'm just a concerned friend" thing is an act to get with her. Well, I like Uncle Frank in that timeline too, he seems way more chill then in Cop Joe's timeline.

Cop Joe is still the best Joe, I am so glad he asked Amy about the affair right away instead of just closing off. 

I guess Chris got his voice from his dad!

[KaveDweller]

8 hours ago, Bookish Jen said:

I missed this episode because I went to bed early, but Rock star Amy slept with that sleazebag Congressman? And I had so much faith in her that she was one of the "good ones." I wanted to see her win and go on to do really good things politically. Ugh.

Yes. The sleazebag Congressman told her how Joe met up with Jenny and took a trip upstate when he said he was at home. Amy called him and got voicemail so then she assumed the worst and jumped into bed with Sleazebag.

[bros402]

9 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

The only person I really like in the Rockstar Joe timeline now is Eric. Rockstar Joe hiding his child from Amy is really bad, but so is her sleeping with the sleezy congressman because she thinks her husband might be cheating, even though we know he isn't. Cant even wait to get his side of the story before jumping into bed with another man? The guy isn't even being transparent about how all of this "I'm just a concerned friend" thing is an act to get with her. Well, I like Uncle Frank in that timeline too, he seems way more chill then in Cop Joe's timeline.

Cop Joe is still the best Joe, I am so glad he asked Amy about the affair right away instead of just closing off. 

I guess Chris got his voice from his dad!

I realized earlier my problem with RockerJoe reality - it'd be much more compelling if he wasn't that successful. It'd be much better to follow a guy who has been trying for years and is just now achieving success and able to quit his job to become a full time singer. That would be much more interesting - maybe have some NBC synergy and have him win America's Got Talent or something

[bybrandy]

Look, I like Billy Joel.  My parents were HUGE Billy Joel fans..  But Billy Joel stopped producing new albums (of the pop variety) in the same year Joe was born.   And that's fine.  I'm still cool with Joe being a huge fan.   He also has parents.  But that somebody he dated not knowing Billy Joel proves they had some crazy age gap!??!?!   I mean heck he's 28.  If she's not a child how big an age gap could it be?


Didn't somebody say in a previous episode something about him having abandonment issues because of Uncle Frank in the nurse storyline?   

Did we know there was a sister?  

Making me also hate Amy doesn't particularly make me like Rocker Joe more.  But seriously it didn't take much to get her into bed with another man.  Not much at all.

[magicdog]

9 minutes ago, bybrandy said:

Didn't somebody say in a previous episode something about him having abandonment issues because of Uncle Frank in the nurse storyline?   

Did we know there was a sister?  

Our first clue about Celeste was when Eric in the Nurse timeline mentioned she was one of Joe's reasons for his "abandonment issues".  I thought she was an old girlfriend.  Then Joe mentioned (while gardening with Amy in the Cop timeline) that his mom had [us] plant things so they [we] would eat our vegetables.  It was finally confirmed Celeste was his sister and she "left".  However it's not mentioned if she died or just broke off from the rest of the family.  Joe also mentioned (in the Nurse timeline) that he wished Uncle Frank was still around.  I suspect he may have died in the shootout he spoke of in the Cop timeline. 

 

13 minutes ago, bybrandy said:

Making me also hate Amy doesn't particularly make me like Rocker Joe more.  But seriously it didn't take much to get her into bed with another man.  Not much at all.

Agreed!  Joe should have told her the truth about "Zeke" and what he wanted to do with the 100K, but instead, she thought the worst and jumped into bed with a sleazy politician.  

[KaveDweller]

17 hours ago, bybrandy said:

Look, I like Billy Joel.  My parents were HUGE Billy Joel fans..  But Billy Joel stopped producing new albums (of the pop variety) in the same year Joe was born.   And that's fine.  I'm still cool with Joe being a huge fan.   He also has parents.  But that somebody he dated not knowing Billy Joel proves they had some crazy age gap!??!?!   I mean heck he's 28.  If she's not a child how big an age gap could it be?

Joe is 31-32, unless he was a child prodigy and finished college at age 18. But I agree that not knowing Billy Joel wouldn't prove an age gap. It is more that it proves a compatibility gap or a lack of similar interests. 

[bybrandy]

13 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

Joe is 31-32, unless he was a child prodigy and finished college at age 18. But I agree that not knowing Billy Joel wouldn't prove an age gap. It is more that it proves a compatibility gap or a lack of similar interests. 

LOL, yeah, I forgot to account for time spent in college.  :).  Still he isnt exactly anceint.

[KaveDweller]

2 hours ago, bybrandy said:

LOL, yeah, I forgot to account for time spent in college.  :).  Still he isnt exactly anceint.

Agreed. I would love to be 32 again.

[legaleagle53]

On 10/21/2021 at 10:41 PM, magicdog said:

Agreed!  Joe should have told her the truth about "Zeke" and what he wanted to do with the 100K, but instead, she thought the worst and jumped into bed with a sleazy politician.  

Which is going to make it exponentially worse when the truth eventually DOES come out -- and in a VERY public way. You think the tabloids won't run with the story that Joe had a "secret love child" years ago once it gets leaked? Their publishers live for this sort of scandal!

I mean, I get why Joe chickened out about telling Amy (he's right -- how do you drop a bomb like that on someone who's still dealing with her own infertility issues?), but Rocker Frank is right. It's only going to blow Joe's marriage  up even worse when Amy finds out the truth the hard way.

[JKL845]

Seems Amy and Bobby are destined to be together. Is RockerAmy going to have Bobby's child? When she wasn't able to have one with Joe?

[bros402]

42 minutes ago, JKL845 said:

Seems Amy and Bobby are destined to be together. Is RockerAmy going to have Bobby's child? When she wasn't able to have one with Joe?

oof, that would suck, especially since we know Joe isn't shooting blanks - but maybe Bobby caught her at the exact right time.

[legaleagle53]

11 hours ago, bros402 said:

oof, that would suck, especially since we know Joe isn't shooting blanks - but maybe Bobby caught her at the exact right time.

Good point. And they might not have bothered to use protection because Amy's infertility issues were already public knowledge, so they would have had no reason to believe that there was any danger that she would get pregnant as a result of that one-night stand with Bobby.

[KaveDweller]

2 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

Good point. And they might not have bothered to use protection because Amy's infertility issues were already public knowledge, so they would have had no reason to believe that there was any danger that she would get pregnant as a result of that one-night stand with Bobby.

Does the fact that she had a miscarriage mean she wouldn't be able to get pregnant again? I don't remember them saying that, I thought they were able to try again and she didn't want to because or her career and because she thought the miscarriage may have been a sign. It would be pretty dumb if she didn't use protection.

That being said, this is a common TV plot. 

[JKL845]

yeah, I hope they don't go that route. If they do, have her think she might be pregnant and not sure if Joe or Bobby is the father, but turns out she isn't pregnant. But best that they don't even bring up that possibility. 

[Jillybean]

So while Amy is being vetted as a candidate, she sleeps with Bobby. Makes total sense.

[Tachi Rocinante]

If Joe has issues with his sperm that cause the disability in his son, it is possible Amy's system is more sensitive to it and causes the miscarriages. She may not have infertility problems at all.

Amy sleeping with Diaz is completely inexcusable based on one photo and a lie, but I get the sense that she's probably had doubts for a long time.

[DearEvette]

Man … do any of these people have any real joy or fun?  Each timeline is just so fraught and heavy.

Rocker Joe

He continually comes off as an entitle shit.  How patronizing to donate a truck to that family.  

Ok, so Joe asking Jenny if she knew their son was disabled wasn’t just curiosity I guess? But rather given her insulted reaction she read it as a ‘did you give him up because he was disabled’ question.  Which is too bad.  Because I think it is an honest response to seeing their son.  It is an element of him that doesn’t have to be negative but it also doesn’t have to be ignored like it is verboten to speak of.  

Sigh. Bobby is sleazy in this timeline too?  I guess sleazy is a character trait and not a result of circumstances and opportunity.

Did like this exchange tho:

Joe 'She won't stop crying."

Joe's Mom: “That’s what happens when you name a baby Wilde.” LOL.

I did like how we learned Eric was bisexual in the Cop Joe timeline and we got to see Eric in a burgeoning relationship in this one with a guy. They make a cute couple.  Eric's reasons for liking Sai were great.

Amy's campaign storyline is giving me the eye tics.  First, It does not take sense for them to make Joe lay low.  It could be perceived as a lack of support for her if he doesn’t show up to her events.

And now Amy has been hit with Joe’s stupid stick I see.  "Oh I only got his voicemail:" after calling just one time.  "Oh there is a picture with no context." Yes, it is obvious Congressman Bobby is manipulative and preys on women, but how does two little peices of nothing translate into  'Let me hop into bed with you without talking to my husband first…'

So now the only people in this timeline who are even still palatable are Eric, Joe's Mom and Uncle Frank.

Nurse Joe-

Still my least favorite timeline.  Their marital/domestic stuff is just not riveting.

Holy cow!  Chris can sing!  I did kinda feel  bad for the other kid because he was so in and enthusiastic and here comes Christopher getting amazed looks.  I think the actor is great, but I am not gonna lie, I feel like the show is giving Christopher perfect kid syndrome in this timeline.  Sweet, but just as boring as the parents.

Wait… does Congressman Bobby escape the sleazy curse in this timeline?  Maybe he really loves his wife in this one.

Huh.  Is uncle Frank dead in this TL? That would explain it.

Cop Joe
This is still the best timeline.  

I am liking the story of the investigation into the Congressman, and I don't hate Jenny in this one.

This is the only timeline we get to watch him romance someone in "real time" rather than it being a fait accompli with a fully grown relationship. So it is nice to see Joe and Amy's start up relationship.

But I loved the glimpse into Eric's life. Young Eric was cute!  and I liked how Joe's Mom's  “how can I support you” being her go to thing where we first see it in the Nurse Joe storyline and now it shows up here.

And I did enjoy the  little conversation with Frank and Eric about Eric’s sexuality.  It could have been really contentious given the Frank from this timeline gives me 'Defund the Police' vibes.  But I liked that Frank listened and because it was Eric he seemed to get it. “Does that mean I’m woke?” LOL

[Crs97]

1 hour ago, DearEvette said:

And now Amy has been hit with Joe’s stupid stick I see.  "Oh I only got his voicemail:" after calling just one time. 

I assume it’s written by the same person who had Jenny defend concealing her pregnancy because she tried to call him for 24 hours.

[magicdog]

1 hour ago, DearEvette said:

Huh.  Is uncle Frank dead in this TL? That would explain it.

As we saw at the end of the next episode,

Spoiler

he's been on Skid Row for a while.  It would seem he has/had a drinking problem in all the timelines.  He quit drinking in Cop Joe timeline (and took it up again), and likely quit in the Rocker timeline.  My guess it's related to the job and losing his brother.

 

[Camera One]

Enough with the soap opera predictability in the Rocker Joe storyline.  I don't buy that Amy wouldn't have confronted Joe about going upstate when she got home.  The whole thing made no sense.  She knew that Joe was lying, and Joe was looking serious saying he had something to tell her.  Instead of just letting him talk, she discusses the miscarriage, which of course makes him clam up.  She doesn't seem mad or itching to find out why he lied or anything.  I also don't buy that she would then just sleep with Bobby.  Is he not married with children in this timeline? 

Even though the Nurse Joe storyline is a bit depressing, I liked the story with his son wanting to stay.

In the Cop Joe plot, I'm glad Joe told Amy about the investigation, but why didn't he say anything about Bobby's job offer and his insinuation that Amy was still romantically linked to him?  That was even creepier than sleeping with and paying off his previous intern.  I'm liking Joe and Amy together a bit more in this subplot now that she's helping his investigation.

On 10/19/2021 at 9:54 PM, bros402 said:

I do like that it is slowly unraveling the plot of the attempted assassination across the storylines - but I really hope they don't try to shoehorn stuff like that in every season just for the sake of trying to tie the Choices today, that would be so so so annoying.

If this show hadn't been cancelled, I think they probably would shoe-horn stuff like that every season, because that's basically the "gimmick" of the show. The only aspect that separates it from a humdrum character drama are the three timelines, and the only way to create coherent episodes with that type of premise would be to find a thread that ties all three together.  I definitely agree that it could get old fast, though.