S03.E02: So I Married An Axe Murderer

[Door County Cherry]

Airs 10/15

Quote

Joe and Love try couples therapy, but their issues may need more than counseling—and their friction isn't the only thing they need to make disappear.

 

Edited October 15, 2021 by dubbel zout
added episode description

[eXiled]

My favorite quotes from this episode.

Love: "Oh, I'm the psycho!"

Love: "No wait! Wait! She's a mom now. I guess I can't slit her throat."

Joe: "But now I will be burying bodies until I am 70 years old because if I am not 100 percent into you all of the time, you will keep killing people!"

Y'all these crazy kids are perfect for each other. The family that slays together stays together (out of fear and necessity). Love that they make sure Henry can't see them burying bodies. Don't want a Dexter situation happening.

Love is sooo gonna have to kill Blogger Mom.

I wonder if Joe would even care if Love were to have an affair with Matthew's stepson.

 

[Ms Blue Jay]

Deleted

Edited October 15, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[peachmangosteen]

What did Joe hide? Natalie's wedding ring? And what was they key that Love hid?

[eXiled]

Both Joe and Love hid keys so that they could get out if their spouse ever locked them in the cage.

[dubbel zout]

13 hours ago, eXiled said:

Love is sooo gonna have to kill Blogger Mom.

I'd kill Blogger Mom. She's hilarious to watch, but she's impossible to deal with on a regular basis.

2 hours ago, eXiled said:

Both Joe and Love hid keys so that they could get out if their spouse ever locked them in the cage.

Heh. They know each other well.

Who is the Ellie that Joe keeps needing to send money to? I don't remember her.

[eXiled]

11 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Who is the Ellie that Joe keeps needing to send money to? I don't remember her.

Ellie is Delilah's sister (who Love killed when she found her in Joe's cage). Joe sent her away and has been sending her cash ever since she left, apparently.

[dubbel zout]

Thanks, @eXiled. I can't keep straight everyone who's been killed, LOL.

[gesundheit]

Andy from The Facts of Life, all grown up! And a nice neighborhood dad, too. (No doubt soon to be dead.)

[Door County Cherry]

A couple things that made me laugh.

Librarian:  You have to have a master's to work in the library.

Joe:  Do you?

Some jobs need one but certainly not all.

I also think it's funny that Natalie is said to have married an older man when Scott Speedman isn't that much older.

[dubbel zout]

38 minutes ago, Door County Cherry said:

A couple things that made me laugh.

Librarian:  You have to have a master's to work in the library.

Joe:  Do you?

That cracked me up, too. Joe is basically a library clerk, reshelving books and telling people where the bathroom is. I hope you don't need a master's for that!

[AllyB]

15 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

That cracked me up, too. Joe is basically a library clerk, reshelving books and telling people where the bathroom is. I hope you don't need a master's for that!

Joe is also a skilled book restorer. He undoubtedly has expertise that many library workers don't. (Not that I want to be speaking well of a serial killer, or anything.)

[dubbel zout]

3 hours ago, AllyB said:

Joe is also a skilled book restorer.

Yes, but that's not what he was hired to do. And he doesn't have a master's degree for that, anyway.

[Chaos Theory]

~. Even though Joe is a complete misogynistic douche bag I do find it kind of fun that Love is the one who is a little bit off the hinges at the moment and the one more capable of just outright killing the Psychiatrist.  

-The fight in the rain between Joe and Love was really well done.  I was curious if the psychiatrist suspected she was  counseling  a couple of married sociopaths.  

 

-  and we have the kidnap cage.   

 

 

[DearEvette]

On 10/15/2021 at 8:11 AM, Spartan Girl said:

Love and Joe panicking over what to do with the body while trying not to wake Henry shouldn’t have been hilarious but it was.

There were so many inappropriately funny things in this episode.  Their couple's therapy session with what they said on the surface vs, what we audience knew they were saying was also pretty funny and well done,i.e. Joe calling Natalie the "priceless" vase vs. Love calling her "cheap and tacky"  LOL.

Also Love's quote: "I didn’t plan it like some psychopath.”  Oh girl, just because you don’t plan your murders doesn't mean you aren't a psycho.

And when their therapist made a comment about Joe's face saying something different and Joe inner monologues: "Dumb, backstabbing face!"

Weirdly, I thought their therapist -- even though she did not know she was dealing with actual murderers -- got their number right away especially when she said their relationship was "Co-dependence masquerading as love." 

On 10/15/2021 at 8:11 AM, Spartan Girl said:

Joe’s internal monologue playing the victim during couple’s counseling was just…wow. How about owning up to your part in all this, you hypocritical creep?! Love may be crazy but she is right: he has to right to act like she’s more of a monster than he is.

See, now I am the opposite of this.  I thought Joe's internal dialogue was really quite spot on.  He says “I almost did a bad thing and she did a terrible thing. But I can’t say what she did so I’m the villain.”  He’s not wrong.  They can talk about cheating all day and she can deflect blame onto him but he literally can’t talk about murder. 

And frankly, Love is a textbook gaslighter.  She defends her kill of Natalie by saying :  “You backed me into a corner and I was trying to protect our family."  Nothing Joe had done required her to kill Natalie at that point.  She wasn't backed into any corner, It is her own psychopathic tendencies that led her there.

Love and Joe are, imo, exactly the same.  In her case she has her object of obsession, Joe and her family, right exactly as she wants them.  So her psychosis kicks in with keeping them.  And anything she perceives as a threat with taking them from her she'll kill.  Her problem is it doesn't take much to be considered 'a threat.'  So that is how she keeps feeding her need.

However in Joe's case, his psychosis kicks in as soon as he sees his obsession and he will kill anything that stops him from getting her.  But once he gets her he finds something wrong and realizes she's not "the one" he then turns on her and because now she is the impediment to getting "the one."

This is why I don't see them both making it out alive at the end of this season ... or given how the show might surprise us... sometime during the season.  Their needs are diametrically opposed.  Joe realizes that Love is not "the one" so he needs to turn on her and because of that tensions, Love will continue to perceive Joe as a threat to their happiness as well.  The dual hiding of the keys tells me they both know this as well and that at some point one of them will find themselves in that cage.  So one of them will be gone at the hands of the other because they can't help themselves.  Sure right now they have to work together but that will change at some point.  they are both too volatile.

It is too bad because at the end, seeing them work together was oddly charming.

I wish I could say that I am rooting for Love to win because Joe is such a predator.  But I can't. I just can't like her. But I do get flashes of enjoyment from Joe. 

[TrininisaScorp]

Their argument in the rain was excellent!  Since last season, I've been pissed at Joe's holier than thou "but, she's a crazy murderer...ew".  The fuck you think you are?

They are different re: what drives them (his is methodical and hers is more emotional), but the outcome is always the same regardless. 

In general, I find therapy scenes polarizing in that sometimes they REALLY work, and sometimes they are REALLY bad.  The therapy sessions we see with Joe/Love are on the really good side for me.  Having to dance around their murderous ways, but still talk about real issues was very nicely handled. 

Poor 40 Henry, man.  We do not need a whole baby Dexter situation here.  

[tennisgurl]

Love and Joe's love language is both murder, so maybe those crazy kids really can make it work? 

The title of this episode cracks me up. I love Joe and Love in couples therapy, arguing and blaming each other about the "vase" that Love broke in a rage, then their big fight in the rain where Love called Joe out on the fact that Joe would have killed her without the baby, and then heartwarmingly building a brand new murder basement together while also hiding their own keys in case they end up getting locked up in the murder container. Its so nice when couples share hobbies! I am actually pretty into Love and Joe being on the same page for awhile, trying to both resist the urge to kill people while raising their son and working on their relationship, at least until their darker impulses take over. Which is too bad because them actually trying to be together is weirdly sweet, in a psychopathic kind of way. The family that slays together..

Even though their therapist has no idea who she is really dealing with, she did actually do a good job at nailing their issues, especially Love's tendency to play the victim, Joe putting women on pedestals and losing it when they act in ways that don't line up with his narrative, and their mutual co-dependence and obsession that they try to pass as love. I got so many dark laughs out of couples therapy, Penn and Victoria were killing it. "I know that you two would never actually kill anyone." *both look awkward* Which is one of the great things about the show, Joe and Love can be so charming in their daily life or in Joe's narration, then a switch just flips and its crazy eyes and murder basements. 

Love, the fact that you didn't plan the murder doesn't make it any better. Joe is an obsessive planner when it comes to his crimes while Love kills in impulsive rages, but neither of them are better.

Edited October 20, 2021 by tennisgurl

[Maysie]

I’ve worked in different libraries and no, you don’t need a master’s degree. Librarians have masters in library science, but there are a host of non degreed jobs available in most libraries (graduate and undergraduate).

The other thing that got my attention in the episode was holy hell, they are really sloppy about covering their tracks! First, that was a pretty shallow grave Joe dug, which is kind of Getting Away With Murder 101-no shallow graves! And wasn’t her body in the trunk of her own car, which he left to be found in the park? That sucker is going to be dusted for prints and treated as a crime scene for forensic evidence and there was zero effort by Joe to deal with that. And am I mistaken, or did they really bury the axe with Natalie (covered with both of their prints!!) I have to say, it really boggled my mind that they were so cavalier about the evidence.

I’d say it was reflective of Joe’s superiority complex (“I’m too smart to get caught in this town of losers”), but when Love went from signing a lease on her new bakery/cafe to a fully functioning (assumed to be inspected and licensed) business within days, I decided it was poor/sloppy writing.

Nevertheless, I’m still getting a hoot out of the story and can hand wave the other stuff simply because I want to see where it goes. And because I’m really hoping blogger lady gets some good Lovin’. 

[Spartan Girl]

Had to repost this:

Love and Joe panicking over what to do with the body while trying not to wake Henry shouldn’t have been hilarious but it was.

LOL at her indignant horror that Joe used her meat grinder back in season 2.

Joe’s internal monologue playing the victim during couple’s counseling was just…wow. How about owning up to your part in all this, you hypocritical creep?! Love may be crazy but she is right: he has to right to act like she’s more of a monster than he is.

At this point I’m rooting for Love to kill Joe.

[Spartan Girl]

Joe’s “If I’m not 100 percent into you I’m going to be burying bodies for the rest of my life” was the epitome of hypocrisy. You killed Beck and Candice* because they ultimately weren’t “into you”, Joe. 

So Love’s response that Joe would kill her if he got bored of her and/or vice vestal was well justified.

*Yeah, Candice wasn’t actually dead, but he didn’t know that at the time.

[Anela]

On 10/19/2021 at 6:18 AM, Spartan Girl said:

 

At this point I’m rooting for Love to kill Joe.

Same here. I doubt that would happen, but I'll leave my speculation for another season, until I get to the last thread. 

[Joimiaroxeu]

Hope the traffic cameras didn't notice that "Natalie" had hair on her chest.

Lol, Henry looking up at Joe like "That's not Mommy. What are you up to with this library lady, Daddy?"

Oh no, that birthday party scene was giving me Parasite vibes. Sherry is begging to be killed in a massacre in her backyard. I mean, she's right to disdain Love but does she have to be snotty about it? (And do some people really not let their kids eat fruit? How is that healthy?)

Joe, your therapist is not so great if she thinks you and Love are the last people who'd commit murder. Wait until she finds out what you've done. She'll want to probably surrender her license for having been so far off the mark.

Hmm, flirty stepson neighbor is going to be next one in the glass cage I bet. Either him or Sherry.

[SunnyBeBe]

I just reached this episode after binging this series.  Can someone tell me how Joe has taken old books apart, which they have shown him doing multiple times, and made money from them.  

[dubbel zout]

He's restoring the books.

[SunnyBeBe]

11 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

He's restoring the books.

But how does he make money on doing that. He obviously must return a book to the place he go it, then he sells something for profit,  I just don’t get how that works.  
 

To be such an experienced and savvy criminal, how does Joe fails to realize how most businesses have security cameras.  Many houses do too.  

[dubbel zout]

I think he's restoring books that are in the bookstore where he works, or else he's selling the restored book there.

[seacliffsal]

He would be able to buy damaged books for a really reasonable price then restore them and charge a lot more for them.  With older/limited edition books, the book's condition makes a huge difference in the pricing.

[Chaos Theory]

On 8/20/2022 at 10:27 AM, SunnyBeBe said:

I just reached this episode after binging this series.  Can someone tell me how Joe has taken old books apart, which they have shown him doing multiple times, and made money from them.  

It’s like restoring rare paintings.   If you are good at it you can turn a painting that has been neatly destroyed into something you can show at a museum.  There are ALOT of rare first edition books out there that can be made to look like they haven’t been caught in a flood or left in some guys basement for a decade.  If you know how to do it correctly you can turn a damaged book into a “rare like new book.”    Heck people sell books on Amazon all the time.    Joe having some knowledge on books could uhhhh make a killing.

[Scarlett45]

On 10/17/2021 at 1:38 PM, DearEvette said:

Love and Joe are, imo, exactly the same.  In her case she has her object of obsession, Joe and her family, right exactly as she wants them.  So her psychosis kicks in with keeping them.  And anything she perceives as a threat with taking them from her she'll kill.  Her problem is it doesn't take much to be considered 'a threat.'  So that is how she keeps feeding her need.

However in Joe's case, his psychosis kicks in as soon as he sees his obsession and he will kill anything that stops him from getting her.  But once he gets her he finds something wrong and realizes she's not "the one" he then turns on her and because now she is the impediment to getting "the one."

 

This is a brilliant analysis. Joe loves the chase, Love wants to possess. They both see other people as objects they can project their compulsions on, it’s written in a very gendered way which I find interesting. 

On 10/18/2021 at 11:08 AM, tennisgurl said:

Love, the fact that you didn't plan the murder doesn't make it any better. Joe is an obsessive planner when it comes to his crimes while Love kills in impulsive rages, but neither of them are better.

I think planning makes it more likely you won’t get caught so I do think Joe’s planning is effectively better for them as a couple/family. 
 

ETA: they are both horrid people! But I think Love knows it, and Joe is in denial. 

[paramitch]

So I noped out after season 1's finale and a few episodes into season 2 -- the finale really bothered me, and season 2 just felt like more of the same stealth-misogynistic formula.

But a friend begged me to keep watching, so I did, and I admit that I thought season 2 was trashy fun by the end, and it was amusing to see a pre-stardom Jenna Ortega own all of her scenes as Ellie. 

And meanwhile, this season -- and this episode? Oh, my God. Turning the show into a dark comedy is the best thing they ever did.

I laughed myself silly through this entire episode. The marriage counselor (who definitely feels subtly off-kilter to me) sessions are already funny ("You broke a vase!"), but Joe and Love using "feeling" words and doing their home therapy exercises while navigating constant murderous tendencies or sniping at each other over their murder victim's open grave are hilarious.

Does anyone notice the very odd syntax Penn Badgley often uses in the voiceovers? He almost does this word-word-word staccato delivery at times, and it's very distinctive. There is often something funny about it, so I think it's deliberate. But it's definitely something he seems to have started doing in season 2. Maybe to make it more darkly self-referential or tongue-in-cheek?

Anyway, the show is a little bit of a guilty pleasure for me, but this season is a lot of fun so far. I know it can't last, but I would watch creepy Joe's marriage to even creepier Love forever. (I swear they must have cast Victoria Pedretti as Love in Season 2 not because she could play sweet (which she did fine) but because she is so damn funny while visibly thrumming with rage and jealousy and insecurity and incipient madness.)

On 10/15/2021 at 3:05 PM, eXiled said:

Both Joe and Love hid keys so that they could get out if their spouse ever locked them in the cage.

I thought this was such a clever writing touch -- it's absolutely believable that both Joe and Love would be smart and paranoid enough to hide their own keys to the cage. I would have loved it, honestly, if it had been pushed further -- if there had been a montage of them each hiding multiple scenes, so that by the time one of them inevitably gets locked in there, they find a key within 30 seconds.

On 10/17/2021 at 11:38 AM, DearEvette said:

Also Love's quote: "I didn’t plan it like some psychopath.”  Oh girl, just because you don’t plan your murders doesn't mean you aren't a psycho.

And when their therapist made a comment about Joe's face saying something different and Joe inner monologues: "Dumb, backstabbing face!"

(snipped)

This is why I don't see them both making it out alive at the end of this season ... or given how the show might surprise us... sometime during the season.  Their needs are diametrically opposed.  Joe realizes that Love is not "the one" so he needs to turn on her and because of that tensions, Love will continue to perceive Joe as a threat to their happiness as well.  The dual hiding of the keys tells me they both know this as well and that at some point one of them will find themselves in that cage.  So one of them will be gone at the hands of the other because they can't help themselves.  Sure right now they have to work together but that will change at some point.  they are both too volatile.

It is too bad because at the end, seeing them work together was oddly charming.

Yeah, all this! Meanwhile, I'm just enjoying the zany silliness of it all until Love inevitably snaps and either gets herself killed, or Joe takes her out.

On 8/22/2022 at 8:09 AM, Chaos Theory said:

It’s like restoring rare paintings.   If you are good at it you can turn a painting that has been neatly destroyed into something you can show at a museum.  There are ALOT of rare first edition books out there that can be made to look like they haven’t been caught in a flood or left in some guys basement for a decade.  If you know how to do it correctly you can turn a damaged book into a “rare like new book.”    Heck people sell books on Amazon all the time.    Joe having some knowledge on books could uhhhh make a killing.

Yeah, I collect rare and signed books in a minor way, and it is a very specialized field. Truly rare books can go for five and six figures, so a talented book restorer can turn a damaged rare book of middling value into one that brings in major bucks.