S01.E08: What If…Ultron Won?

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Natasha Romanoff and Clint Barton seek to destroy killer-robot Ultron following a cataclysmic event.

Dropping Wednesday, September 29, 2021.

[tkc]

Wow, so much to process.

Sets up for an insane finale next week!

[paigow]

Barton & Romanoff should be dead from radiation poisoning

How is there still power for the warehouse lights and Zola?

What If Dark Strange beats Ultron, takes the Stones and runs amok? 

[phalange]

This was Marvel making up for what happened on Vormir in Endgame lol. 

Apparently the mind stone can be used to just slice Thanos in half. If Vision hadn't been so injured in IW, it's possible he could've done that. 

I wish we saw a little more about how exactly Ultron won in this universe. In AOU, Ultron doesn't get to finish the upload because Wanda reads his dreams and wakes Helen Cho who stops the upload before it's complete. We're only shown the original Avengers here, so maybe in this universe Wanda and Pietro never volunteered for the experiments? Ultron conceivably could've gotten the mind stone and the vibranium on his own. 

The Watcher and Ultron breaking through the multiverse while they fight looked really cool. Also, that looked like Steve being sworn in as President. Interesting. 

Evil!Strange is back. He's probably happy to get out of there.

[Spartan Girl]

Well, at least we knew this one was going to be dark.

This had better be the last damn time this show kills off Tony.

Had to laugh at how easily Ultron Vision disposed of Thanos. So had Vision been at full power instead of injured in IW, the Snap could have been prevented? *sigh*

But Carol? That hurt. And all so that Clint and Natasha could be the sole survivors and “fix” the Vorimir stuff. Yeah, felt a little hollow.

So now Strange Supreme has a chance to redeem himself by bringing in the Multiverse Avengers. That should be interesting but 

Spoiler

I still don’t know why they’d recruit Killmonger when they could pick literally anyone else. Tons of other Carols out there. Just sayin’…

 

[cambridgeguy]

59 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Had to laugh at how easily Ultron Vision disposed of Thanos. So had Vision been at full power instead of injured in IW, the Snap could have been prevented? *sigh*

Well, we've already seen the Snap could have been presented if Thor hadn't stopped to rub it in. 

And it would be hilarious if Ultron only sensed the Watcher because he was actually monologuing to no one in particular instead of silently contemplating the end of that universe. 

[swanpride]

Well, I guess there was a point to the end of the last episode after all...

In a way I kind of enjoyed this episode. While it was depressing, it wasn't bleak and I guess I would have really loved it if it had come after a bunch of more diverse episodes, where some had a good and some had a not so good ending. It also didn't suffer from the tonal shifts the other episodes. This way they kept to the matter at hand and allowed the dramatic scenes to breath. It was also interesting how they tied the story into previous episodes (though, for the record, that doesn't make the fridging episode in any way better). 

 

[Llywela]

47 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

And it would be hilarious if Ultron only sensed the Watcher because he was actually monologuing to no one in particular instead of silently contemplating the end of that universe. 

I thought that. Like, is there a reason he narrates everything he sees out loud, is that part of the job description for being The Watcher? Or did he just fall into the habit of it out of sheer loneliness? It's amusing, though, that he isn't just narrating out loud for our sake, the ongoing narration is actually built into the script as an in-universe device to bring him to Ultron's attention.

[tv echo]

Natasha and Clint try to save the multiverse...

Whoa - this Hawkeye can turn invisible and has an artificial arm!

This Ultron gets the Infinity Stones, so why doesn't he just snap his fingers to get what he wants?

Destruction of a lot of worlds and deaths of a lot of Avengers - I guess we're back to dark and depressing.

And the Watcher gets dragged into the story. 

Zola's brain returns!

This time Natasha survives and Clint dies by sacrificing himself... Annnnd Natasha lands outside in the classic superhero pose.

Epic Watcher versus Ultron battle!

Wait - is that Steve Rogers on the big TV screen getting sworn in as President? I

Ends yet again in a cliffhanger.

Returning talent: Jeremy Renner, Toby Jones and Benedict Cumberbatch.
Sound-alikes: Lake Bell (as Natasha/Black Widow), Mick Wingert (as Tony Stark/Iron Man), Ross Marquand ( as Ultron), Alexandra Daniels (as Carol Danvers/Captain Marvel) and Josh Keaton (as Steve Rogers).
Plus Jeffrey Wright as the Watcher.

Edited September 29, 2021 by tv echo

[wmdekooning]

2 hours ago, Llywela said:

I thought that. Like, is there a reason he narrates everything he sees out loud, is that part of the job description for being The Watcher? Or did he just fall into the habit of it out of sheer loneliness? It's amusing, though, that he isn't just narrating out loud for our sake, the ongoing narration is actually built into the script as an in-universe device to bring him to Ultron's attention.

Exactamundo.

He's called "The Watcher" not the "The Watcher Who Narrates Everything He Sees Out Loud"...

[wmdekooning]

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

This Ultron gets the Infinity Stones, so why doesn't he just snap his fingers to get what he wants?

My thoughts are that Ultron is a little more "human" than he lets on or as we perceive him. So, he doesn't want to do it the "easy" way, he wants to best any challengers, he wants the terror of the multiverse inhabitants as their existences are snuffed out, he wants to as Thanos said, "Do it himself"...

[Cobalt Stargazer]

4 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

  Hide contents

I still don’t know why they’d recruit Killmonger when they could pick literally anyone else. Tons of other Carols out there. Just sayin’…

 

Especially since Killmonger doesn't have magical abilities the way Strange does. While he did take the herb that gives him the Black Panther powers, that's not the same thing as knowing spells, which I'd think would be way more useful against this version of Ultron.

So is next week the final episode ever? I think I read somewhere that there'll be a second season, but that might just be speculation.

 

1 minute ago, wmdekooning said:

My thoughts are that Ultron is a little more "human" than he lets on or as we perceive him. So, he doesn't want to do it the "easy" way, he wants to best any challengers, he wants the terror of the multiverse inhabitants as their existences are snuffed out, he wants to as Thanos said, "Do it himself"...

That's what I was thinking, and maybe killing Thanos and getting the Infinity Stones fueled Ultron's plans in that direction. The only reason Thanos wanted the Stones at all is for a more 'efficient' way of killing people, but since this Ultron got warped into wanting to destroy the world to begin with, the Snap itself wouldn't be the goal.

[Spartan Girl]

I think we need an episode next season of the universe where Steve becomes President. It's what we deserve.

[swanpride]

But frankly, if the best way to defeat Thanos was just cutting him apart by surprise...there would have been so many options to do so in the main timeline. 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

50 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

I think we need an episode next season of the universe where Steve becomes President. It's what we deserve.

With the way this show has worked, he'd appoint Hank Pym as Secretary of Defense.

[thuganomics85]

Good to know that Ultron with Vision's Body AND the Infinity Stones makes him apparently the most dangerous villain in town.  Thanos?  He barely even had to lift a robotic finger to take him out!  Ego?  Pretty much yesterday's news!  Not bad for the guy who was arguably in the weakest Avenger film.  I guess they couldn't get James Spader back though.  Ross Marquand did what he could and is usually good at imitating others, but he couldn't quite pull of Spader's style, but whatever.

Fun seeing more of Clint and Natasha together and Lake Bell continues to be one of the better "replacement" voices here.  Definitely noticed the parallels between Clint's sacrifice here and Natasha's in Endgame.

There is a reason that "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" is a popular saying, but I still worry about Zola having his own robotic body now (even if he currently has no legs!)

 Looks like The Watcher is going to actually have to get involved now since Ultron booted him out and can basically travel the multi-verse now.  And The Watcher's first task?  Recruiting Dark Doctor Strange!

[Spartan Girl]

At least Ross was one of the ones that got blown up, so that’s a silver lining!

[paigow]

5 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I think we need an episode next season of the universe where Steve becomes President. It's what we deserve.

Commissioner Gordon would say: What you need is never the same thing that you deserve

[paigow]

4 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

With the way this show has worked, he'd appoint Hank Pym as Secretary of Defense.

Or Tony Stark builds another Ultron  

[paigow]

6 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

The only reason Thanos wanted the Stones at all is for a more 'efficient' way of killing people,

Thanos never wanted to exterminate EVERYBODY... Ultron is like the Genie from that X-Files episode where Mulder wished for peace on Earth

[Racj82]

It does not matter if Ultron split Thanos in two easily. It says nothing towards what happened I'm our timeline. Like if it was so easy then why...The avengers did not make the choice to beat Thanos by fighting. They decided to mess up his plan instead based on what they knew. I'm sure there is a timeline where Vision dispatches Thanos easily. A universe where it's not a movie where story and conflict are needed.

[wmdekooning]

6 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

There is a reason that "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" is a popular saying, but I still worry about Zola having his own robotic body now (even if he currently has no legs!)

This is something I have been thinking about since "What If: Thanos Had to Fight the MCU Villains?"
https://youtu.be/qrmUUt10xyQ

Like, if I'm an extremely powerful villain (doesn't need to be MCU villain), not out for world conquest, but like financial gain and some crazy robot wants to end life on planet Earth, the f***ing planet Earth where I live and I'm not ganna fight?! How come the baddies never once represent so the world and/or everything else doesn't get ended?

Maybe Killmonger will next week...

[johntfs]

4 hours ago, wmdekooning said:

This is something I have been thinking about since "What If: Thanos Had to Fight the MCU Villains?"
https://youtu.be/qrmUUt10xyQ

Like, if I'm an extremely powerful villain (doesn't need to be MCU villain), not out for world conquest, but like financial gain and some crazy robot wants to end life on planet Earth, the f***ing planet Earth where I live and I'm not ganna fight?! How come the baddies never once represent so the world and/or everything else doesn't get ended?

Maybe Killmonger will next week...

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/60598/Necessary-Evil-Explorers-Edition

[arc]

18 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

But Carol? That hurt.

Strictly from a logical sense of how these powers work, it makes sense that a hero powered by one of the Stones wouldn’t match up to someone wielding all of them. (Wanda was kicking Thanos’ ass in Endgame because the MCU added the constraint that an Infinity Gauntlet wielder had to close their fist or snap their fingers; a moot point for this Ultron who integrated the other five Stones directly into his armor (and as a synthezoid probably has a direct connection to tech like his armor.)

Ultron punching Uatu through reality reminded me of the Distinguished Competition’s comics storyline where an evil Superboy “punched reality”. Also, I don’t think I’ve ever seen Uatu armor up and really throw down. I wonder if they’re gonna cast Jeffrey Wright in the live action side.

[tennisgurl]

I don't know how or why, but I know that this has to be Hank Pym's fault somehow...

How sad is it that, as much as things often tend to really suck in the main MCU continuity, that timeline seems like one of the best options compared to most of them? I wish we had learned a bit more about how exactly Ultron managed to win in this timeline, but it was cool seeing him really show what he can do, even taking down Thanos without even trying, as well as most of the planets we have seen out in the cosmic side of the MCU. He's so powerful that he actually hears The Watcher monologuing as he weeps about having no worlds to conquer, and realizes that there is a whole multiverse out there for him to destroy, full on smashing through The Watchers personal fourth wall to fight him one on one. Its really cool how they have subtlety built up actual continuity into what seemed like an anthology show, with The Watcher becoming more visible as the show goes on and showing more emotions in his narration, and how things have gotten to the point where he is actually more or less the main character in an episode along with being the narrator and his now actually involved in the plot trying to save the multiverse. So now The Watcher has to go around recruiting people from all around the multiverse, Nicky Fury style, to save the whole of existence, this is going to be awesome. 

I did think it was funny when The Watcher was doing his narration and Ultron looked kind of like "what the fuck?" as he heard him. If only The Watcher had just kept his commentary to himself for once, then maybe Ultron never would have noticed the multiverse at all. This is really giving me a Crisis on Infinite Earths vibe now, especially some of the sequels where things got really meta and the bad guys started noticing that they were in a comic book and decided to try their hand at taking over the "real" world, which is kind of where I wonder if this might go. If The Watcher can see everything and Ultron can no go where he can go, then he might finally catch a glimpse of the fourth wall. If only Deadpool was in this universe!

Nice to see Clint and Natasha, complete with Clint having a bunch of cool new cyber enhancements and limbs and Natasha rocking Red Guardians shield. The shot where Clint goes flying down to destroy a bunch of the Ultrons was really well animated, in general the animation in this has been really well done. 

Things have taken such a bad turn that The Watcher has to give up his watching and actually take action, starting by recruiting Dark Strange, the only other person powerful enough to see The Watcher to his new multiversal Avengers, who should at least be happy to take a vacation from his time bubble. 

[Kirbyrun]

10 hours ago, arc said:

Ultron punching Uatu through reality reminded me of the Distinguished Competition’s comics storyline where an evil Superboy “punched reality”.

Uatu's multiversal watchtower even looked like the crystalline walls Superboy Prime punched!

Edited September 30, 2021 by Kirbyrun

[shrewd.buddha]

10 hours ago, arc said:

Ultron punching Uatu through reality

... sorta broke this show for me.   Sorry.
Turning the Watcher into an action hero who 'amors up' and punches people in the face is just wrong and borderline blasphemy.  It's Pokemon  GO  ... but with Marvel characters. 

It's only the eighth episode and TPTB are already breaking the 4th wall - -  which is basically the premise of the show.
Infinity Ultron and Daemon Strange have now entered the Watcher's plane of existence.  Can they now talk to us, the audience, too? 
This "over-the-top-ness" makes the series feel more like a Saturday morning cartoon and something that the Marvel brain trust (Kevin Feige) has little or no interest in (like the Netflix heroes and Agents of Shield). 

[Guest]

11 hours ago, arc said:

Strictly from a logical sense of how these powers work, it makes sense that a hero powered by one of the Stones wouldn’t match up to someone wielding all of them. (Wanda was kicking Thanos’ ass in Endgame because the MCU added the constraint that an Infinity Gauntlet wielder had to close their fist or snap their fingers; a moot point for this Ultron who integrated the other five Stones directly into his armor (and as a synthezoid probably has a direct connection to tech like his armor.)

 

Thanos doesn’t have the stones when Wanda kicks his ass. At that point Peter has the gauntlet. He only has the gauntlet in Endgame when he fights Carol and Tony. 

[tkc]

So, a question: how does the chronology of this episode (E8) fit with that of the previous “frat-boy Thor” episode (E7)?

In this current episode Ultron first learns about the multiverse, so logically E8 has to happen before the events of E7.

However, The Watcher seems to be taken by surprise at the end of E7 when he sees Ultron appear in front of Thor. By this point, The Watcher should know about Ultron’s mission to sterilize the multiverse and so there shouldn’t be any surprise factor.

What’s the in-multiverse explanation?

[Cobalt Stargazer]

2 hours ago, tkc said:

So, a question: how does the chronology of this episode (E8) fit with that of the previous “frat-boy Thor” episode (E7)?

In this current episode Ultron first learns about the multiverse, so logically E8 has to happen before the events of E7.

However, The Watcher seems to be taken by surprise at the end of E7 when he sees Ultron appear in front of Thor. By this point, The Watcher should know about Ultron’s mission to sterilize the multiverse and so there shouldn’t be any surprise factor.

What’s the in-multiverse explanation?

Speculation: Since Ultron didn't hear the Watcher's voice during the last episode, the Watcher remained unaware of the true purpose of his mission. You would think that the addition of the Infinity Stones would alert Ultron to the existence of other universes, since he already had them in the Thor episode because he'd killed Thanos and taken them. We didn't even see what happened to Thor, since the ep ended just as Ultron and his deathbots arrived. Is Thor still alive? If so, will he be one of the next recruits?

[Kirbyrun]

2 hours ago, tkc said:

What’s the in-multiverse explanation?

Might not be the same Watcher…

[johntfs]

4 hours ago, tkc said:

So, a question: how does the chronology of this episode (E8) fit with that of the previous “frat-boy Thor” episode (E7)?

In this current episode Ultron first learns about the multiverse, so logically E8 has to happen before the events of E7.

However, The Watcher seems to be taken by surprise at the end of E7 when he sees Ultron appear in front of Thor. By this point, The Watcher should know about Ultron’s mission to sterilize the multiverse and so there shouldn’t be any surprise factor.

What’s the in-multiverse explanation?

This is just a guess but figure the Watcher "watches" from a place similar to that of the Time Variance Authority - a place outside of conventional Time.  So he's watching Party Thor when WTF?  Infinity Ultron shows up.  So Watcher starts scanning the multiverses to find out exactly WTF which is where we are in episode 8.  At which point we learn that the Watcher's act of watching is the thing that alerts Infinity Ultron to the existence of the multiverse.

[The Crazed Spruce]

It's a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey, multiversy-wultiversy... .stuff.

[tennisgurl]

So was that the lava planet that Darth Vader lives on that we saw briefly when Ultron and the Monitor were fighting through the universes?! Is this the Star Wars/MCU crossover that has long been promised? 

[johntfs]

18 hours ago, The Crazed Spruce said:

It's a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey, multiversy-wultiversy... .stuff.

Give me a better description of the Marvel Multiverse.  I dare you.

[paigow]

3 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

So was that the lava planet that Darth Vader lives on that we saw briefly when Ultron and the Monitor were fighting through the universes?! Is this the Star Wars/MCU crossover that has long been promised? 

Vader: Ultron, I am your father

[johntfs]

15 hours ago, paigow said:

Vader: Ultron, I am your father

Ultron: *immediately emits a beam from the Mind stone which fatally bisects Vader* I hate my father.

[Morrigan2575]

On 9/29/2021 at 11:21 AM, wmdekooning said:

Exactamundo.

He's called "The Watcher" not the "The Watcher Who Narrates Everything He Sees Out Loud"...

I don't even know why they act as if he's the only one..THE Watcher...he's a Watcher...is he supposed to be Uatu?  Apparently there are a group of Watchers called "Critics" who comment on everything...I think he might be one of those. 😂

There are always plot holes and implausible situations, that's what makes What If? Stories fun but, this one was just over the top. I couldn't even get past Nat/Clint on a Nuked Earth...like what?

[paigow]

38 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Apparently there are a group of Watchers called "Critics" who comment on everything...I think he might be one of those. 😂

 

[johntfs]

6 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I don't even know why they act as if he's the only one..THE Watcher...he's a Watcher...is he supposed to be Uatu?  Apparently there are a group of Watchers called "Critics" who comment on everything...I think he might be one of those. 😂

There are always plot holes and implausible situations, that's what makes What If? Stories fun but, this one was just over the top. I couldn't even get past Nat/Clint on a Nuked Earth...like what?

They act like he's the only one because unless/until another one is introduced or at least referred to, he is the only one.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

8 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I don't even know why they act as if he's the only one..THE Watcher...he's a Watcher...is he supposed to be Uatu?  Apparently there are a group of Watchers called "Critics" who comment on everything...I think he might be one of those. 😂

 

There's a bunch of stuff here:

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Uatu_(Earth-616)

   If he is Uatu, he might be either in exile or the last of his kind. Or even both, and as someone said upthread he took to narrating everything as he saw it from being lonely and stuck in a void.

[Morrigan2575]

7 hours ago, johntfs said:

They act like he's the only one because unless/until another one is introduced or at least referred to, he is the only one.

But they did. We saw 3 of them in GotG2 

[revbfc]

Dear Disney,

Wouldn’t that name be spelled more like “Арним Зола?”

Sincerely,

A guy who knows next to zero Russian, but knows enough to be embarrassed by your Cyrillic screw up.

Edited October 3, 2021 by revbfc

[johntfs]

On 10/3/2021 at 6:09 AM, Morrigan2575 said:

But they did. We saw 3 of them in GotG2 

We saw three of them in a throwaway scene with Stan Lee.  I doubt that's exactly official.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 9/30/2021 at 4:51 PM, tkc said:

So, a question: how does the chronology of this episode (E8) fit with that of the previous “frat-boy Thor” episode (E7)?

In this current episode Ultron first learns about the multiverse, so logically E8 has to happen before the events of E7.

However, The Watcher seems to be taken by surprise at the end of E7 when he sees Ultron appear in front of Thor. By this point, The Watcher should know about Ultron’s mission to sterilize the multiverse and so there shouldn’t be any surprise factor.

What’s the in-multiverse explanation?

On 9/30/2021 at 9:08 PM, johntfs said:

This is just a guess but figure the Watcher "watches" from a place similar to that of the Time Variance Authority - a place outside of conventional Time.  So he's watching Party Thor when WTF?  Infinity Ultron shows up.  So Watcher starts scanning the multiverses to find out exactly WTF which is where we are in episode 8.  At which point we learn that the Watcher's act of watching is the thing that alerts Infinity Ultron to the existence of the multiverse.

I would have said that Infinity Ultron came to Episode 7's Thor's location after killing Thanos but before launching the nuclear codes (which Natasha and Clint were trying to stop) in episode 8, except that we briefly saw Thor's body along with Steve's and Bruce's near Tony in Episode 8 before Ultron had the infinity stones.  Thus, there are two Thors involved with Ultron, so there must be Infinity Ultrons on at least two separate earths.  ETA: Just watched Episode 9, and all is explained.

On 10/3/2021 at 7:51 AM, revbfc said:

Dear Disney,

Wouldn’t that name be spelled more like “Арним Зола?”

Sincerely,

A guy who knows next to zero Russian, but knows enough to be embarrassed by your Cyrillic screw up.

It would but, but if Disney had actually spelled it in Russian, few people would have understood why the Watcher was so eager for Clint and Natasha to find that particular folder.  So they used a Cyrillic "R" and called it a day.

Edited May 13, 2022 by ItCouldBeWorse