Maid - General Discussion

[Bookish Jen]

One of the most inane articles I've read about "Maid."

[Paloma]

3 hours ago, Bookish Jen said:

One of the most inane articles I've read about "Maid."

I didn't have to read any farther than the subtitle (in italics below the photo) to know that this article should not be given any attention. How did I know? Because the first words in this subtitle were "Pro-abortion advocates"--deliberately changing "pro-choice" to an inaccurate term, because nobody is "pro-abortion." Clearly this article was written by someone with an anti-abortion, anti-feminist agenda. I did a little research into Evie and found (not surprisingly) that is a self-proclaimed conservative online magazine "focused on encouraging traditional values and historic virtues in culture, relationships and lifestyle. The content typically stands against progressive feminism and encourages marriage, monogamy, traditional family values, and purposeful dating. Content is critical of porn, hook-up culture, socialism/communism, and the birth control pill, instead advocating for natural planning methods." 

Sorry to go OT, but this stuff makes my blood boil.

[Bookish Jen]

On 12/2/2021 at 8:01 PM, Paloma said:

I didn't have to read any farther than the subtitle (in italics below the photo) to know that this article should not be given any attention. How did I know? Because the first words in this subtitle were "Pro-abortion advocates"--deliberately changing "pro-choice" to an inaccurate term, because nobody is "pro-abortion." Clearly this article was written by someone with an anti-abortion, anti-feminist agenda. I did a little research into Evie and found (not surprisingly) that is a self-proclaimed conservative online magazine "focused on encouraging traditional values and historic virtues in culture, relationships and lifestyle. The content typically stands against progressive feminism and encourages marriage, monogamy, traditional family values, and purposeful dating. Content is critical of porn, hook-up culture, socialism/communism, and the birth control pill, instead advocating for natural planning methods." 

Sorry to go OT, but this stuff makes my blood boil.

I'm so glad you understand. And I hate how it refers to Alex's mother's mental health issues to feminism and self-care.

[HerkyJerky]

On 10/12/2021 at 1:15 PM, Hal9000 said:

As an aside, Erin Karpluk, who played the father’s wife, was completely wasted in the role.

AGREED! Being Erica is one of my all-time favorite shows.

[HerkyJerky]

On 11/3/2021 at 2:02 AM, Kirkydee said:

Just finished this series.  I may be the only male on this thread.

No, you're not, Kirkydee, fellow male here to say I LOVED this series!  Even though I have three sisters and plenty of female friends, I never quite understood what was meant by female "agency" and now I know and I can't stop thinking about it.  I echo what other people have said on this thread about showing how difficult it is to escape a situation like Alex was in,  Those Byzantine rules and restrictions to get simple aid were ridiculous.  But I did like the fact that not everybody was made out to be horrible (except maybe for Cilantro😉) but they had shades of gray.

[Mr. R0b0t]

Dude here as well... great series.  Wonderfully acted all around and Qualley really carries all ten hours like a budding star.  Has Andie MacDowell ever been better?  Obviously the character of Paula is permanently bouncing from one guardrail to the next; her acting felt authentic to me.  I've been around people like her and they are EXHAUSTING.  Despite all of her polarizing behavior, her mom was like a North Star for Alex.  No matter how crazy things got for Alex her mom would be there...if she could find her and there wasn't a man in the way.  In some ways they were very codependent on each other.  Her dad was a real sh!theel and had so many opportunities to redeem himself and failed each time.  

[Shermie]

The anti-abortion article linked above talks about Paula like she was being intentional with her bad choices; not once did it mention that she was mentally ill. 

Quote

I really loved how this show demonstrated how expensive it is to be poor and how difficult it is to find work with a living wage here in the US.

“How expensive it is to be poor” is a pretty profound statement. Tell me again why the US constantly claims to be the best country in the world (it’s not), and if it’s the richest country in the world (which it constantly claims), why do so many struggle in poverty?

[chocolatine]

48 minutes ago, Shermie said:

“How expensive it is to be poor” is a pretty profound statement. Tell me again why the US constantly claims to be the best country in the world (it’s not), and if it’s the richest country in the world (which it constantly claims), why do so many struggle in poverty?

"Best country in the world" is a subjective claim because it can't be quantified, but the US *is* the richest country in the world in terms of net assets per capita.

There is no country that is "best" for everyone. The US is a great country for skilled professionals because it offers higher-paying jobs and lower taxation compared to most Western European countries. Whereas the latter countries have much stronger social safety nets (which are funded by higher income taxes), so they are better for people who are in need of those services. 

[Caseysgirl]

I came back to this show after watching the first few episodes and really enjoyed it. As many people have already said, this show can be triggering to those of us involved with substance abusers, the unmedicated mentally ill and poverty.  Though it is well over 40 years since I was in that situation, I felt all the anxiety that Alex was feeling while watching. I was fortunate that I had something to fall back on, but being one step away from  disaster everywhere you turn is physically and emotionally exhausting. 

[Bastet]

On 10/1/2021 at 8:17 PM, Empress1 said:

The ticker on the side whenever she earns or spends money is useful. It was heartbreaking to see her expect to make $500 (which is still nothing) and see it drop to $37.50 minus gas and cleaning supplies. Then to see the accident and see her drop deep into the hole was harrowing. One of the most pervasive and IMO damaging myths we perpetuate in this country is the “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” myth and in the first episode, this show does a good job of skewering it.

Yes, it took me right back to Barbara Ehrenreich's book Nickel and Dimed: On (Not) Getting By in America.  She wrote that 20 years ago (an undercover journalist, she wanted to explore what impact the draconian "reform" of our general relief program from AFDC to TANF had on the working poor), and all the same damn things are still happening.  That running tally of Alex's finances is so simple yet so effective.  As is the actor's line delivery when the cop hands her a ticket and she says, "I can't pay this."  It's this part panic, part resignation, part gallows humor response that's pitch perfect.

I only watched the first episode and part of the second, so I'm not going to read the rest of this forum until I'm finished, but I had to come here and add this to my home page because I love it, as hard as it is to watch.

On 10/1/2021 at 8:17 PM, Empress1 said:

I would have been so, so tempted to take some of that food, I won’t lie.

That food waste was another painful scene; the rich woman pats herself on the back for composting, but we're not talking about scraps that would otherwise just rot in a landfill - all that glorious, undoubtedly organic, edible food because she doesn't have to think about the cost involved in buying food you won't be home to eat and then buying more when you get home and chooses not to think about the waste of tossing an entire refrigerator full of fresh food because she'll be gone for a long weekend and doesn't want to chance anything smelling when she returns.

Imagine if instead she had said, "I don't want any of this food to rot because I'm not here to eat it; help yourself to anything you'd like."  It would have made absolutely no difference to her, yet a big one to Alex.  I loved Alex's fantasy of just chowing down.  If she'd done it, and taken more with her home to her daughter, again, it would have made ZERO difference to that homeowner, but if she'd been "caught" doing so she'd have been fired.  So something as simple as the win-win of feeding a hungry child and keeping food from going to waste is merely a fantasy.

I love when she has her dad stop at the dollar store so she can get a replacement doll.  She's so far in the hole just from one bad night, what's more important - saving a dollar towards bills she can't accumulate enough dollars to pay anyway, or spending that dollar on something that will make her daughter happy and help distract her from their situation?

I like the social worker, and the people at the DV shelter.  Alex feeling like she'd be taking a spot from a victim of "real" abuse and the social worker helping her understand what she suffered was real abuse was great (I like telling her she has to call the hotline herself, Alex asking, "And tell them what?" and the SW replying, "Help"), and even better was hearing it from someone who's been there -- before they hit you, they hit near you; the next time was going to be your head, and you know it, it's why you left.

[chocolatine]

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

That food waste was another painful scene; the rich woman pats herself on the back for composting, but we're not talking about scraps that would otherwise just rot in a landfill - all that glorious, undoubtedly organic, edible food because she doesn't have to think about the cost involved in buying food you won't be home to eat and then buying more when you get home and chooses not to think about the waste of tossing an entire refrigerator full of fresh food because she'll be gone for a long weekend and doesn't want to chance anything smelling when she returns.

I thought that was extremely wasteful and unrealistic, even for a wealthy person. Who stocks their fridge full of groceries when they know they're about to go out of town? Even if she gets her groceries delivered, it only takes a few taps on the phone to pause or reschedule a delivery. And I can't imagine someone being so tone-deaf that they wouldn't offer the groceries to their housekeeper first before asking her to throw them away. I'm sure that there exist some people who would do that, but I don't think it's the norm for wealthy people. Most wealthy people (at least the self-made ones) are pretty frugal and abhor any kind of waste.

[Bastet]

1 minute ago, chocolatine said:

Who stocks their fridge full of groceries when they know they're about to go out of town?

It could have been a late decision to leave, especially with her resources (maybe she has a second home in driving distance but she's too lazy to transport the food, she'll just order in there).

5 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

And I can't imagine someone being so tone-deaf that they wouldn't offer the groceries to their housekeeper first before asking her to throw them away.

With a regular housekeeper, sure.  But she uses this crap-ass service (probably because no independent worker with enough regular clients to be able to turn down her paltry shifts will ever come back a second time), has never seen Alex before, and is miffed at her.  I still think it more typical she'd offer her the food in a totally patronizing way than tell her to compost it, but other than temporarily when Alex fainted, she never treated her with a shred of decency, so her primary thought being of composting rather than feeding someone/avoiding waste is perhaps not quite so out there.  I don't think she's diabolical, so as to do it intentionally in order to delight in making someone who could never afford all that food toss it out, and I assume that moment between them in the nursery is meant to indicate she'll be something other than completely awful to her as the series goes on, but just so utterly thoughtless?  Maybe; kinda cartoony, but I can go with it in a first episode setting up the severity of Alex's situation.

[RachelKM]

20 hours ago, chocolatine said:

I thought that was extremely wasteful and unrealistic, even for a wealthy person. Who stocks their fridge full of groceries when they know they're about to go out of town? Even if she gets her groceries delivered, it only takes a few taps on the phone to pause or reschedule a delivery. And I can't imagine someone being so tone-deaf that they wouldn't offer the groceries to their housekeeper first before asking her to throw them away. I'm sure that there exist some people who would do that, but I don't think it's the norm for wealthy people. Most wealthy people (at least the self-made ones) are pretty frugal and abhor any kind of waste.

It's really not that unrealistic.  I don't think it would be typical of a wealthy person. But I also don't think it's even out of the realm of likelihood.

First off, even for a not wealthy person, it's not that uncommon to not remember to cancel a regular order before a trip.  At various times, both I and my best friend have texted one another from a work trip or even a planned trip to say "Hey, I forgot to cancel my delivery. Do you want to grab it and use it." *

Secondly, as someone above noted, Regina didn't have a regular maid.  She used a service that sent people, not always the same person, and she'd never seen Alex before.  She also seemed fairly committed, initially, to not developing any degree of personal relationship with her maid service providers to the point of willfully not even seeing them as people.  It wasn't an accident that she didn't recognize Alex AT ALL during the dognapping thing. This woman went out of her way not to see them.  

As to the last point, wealthy people, self-made or otherwise, vary wildly as to frugality, both between and among them as well as single individuals by circumstance.  I've known wealthy people that would waste irrational amounts of money in one are of their lives and become oddly conservatives in others.

 

*By way of explanation, I live in Sacramento and organic fruit and vegetable delivery is common and pretty reasonable here. Less reasonable if you forget to fucking cancel. 

Edited January 25, 2022 by RachelKM

[Empress1]

4 hours ago, Bastet said:

Yes, it took me right back to Barbara Ehrenreich's book Nickel and Dimed: On (Not) Getting By in America.  She wrote that 20 years ago (an undercover journalist, she wanted to explore what impact the draconian "reform" of our general relief program from AFDC to TANF had on the working poor), and all the same damn things are still happening. 

That book is excellent.

[Bastet]

19 hours ago, Empress1 said:

That book is excellent.

I always wanted Nickel and Dimed to be made into a series, so I'm glad this book was.  Better timing, I guess, as a limited run series on Netflix is pretty much the ideal format for it, and that didn't exist when Ehrenreich's book was published.

I've watched through episode eight and the show continues to be predictable in an excellent way; it's so painfully realistic, I can see what's coming -- Danielle will go back to her abuser (that statistic about the average woman leaving seven times cannot be repeated enough), Alex's parents will keep letting her down, Alex will fuck Sean when she's utterly numb from her mom's manic episode, Nate won't accept Alex does not want to date him, she'll eventually run out of places to stay and wind up back in the trailer, etc.

I appreciate seeing it kept real, as hard as it can be to watch.  It's so honest about a reality television generally refuses to address, and it's important to show how fucked up our public assistance system is.  She has to be really down and out to qualify, but she also has to have a job - but if she brings in too high a pittance from that job, she'll lose her benefits.  So she'll never be able to save up for a place that isn't subsidized, the wait list for subsidized housing is a mile long, and all these benefits have a time limit on them.

[Bastet]

I just finished the series, and cried tears of hope and joy at the end.  I loved Alex's vision for her happiest day, especially her recounting of what it took to get to it -- "three hundred and thirty eight toilets cleaned, seven types of government assistance, nine separate moves, one night on the ferry station floor, and the entire third year of my daughter's life".  I also love the realism that her fantasy was of arriving in Missoula, officially leaving behind one chapter of her life and starting the next, not of graduating, publishing, buying a house, or anything like that.  She couldn't think that far ahead.

Abusers' primary characteristic is being controlling, so Sean conveniently dropping his custody claims at just the right time twice was atypical (is that true from the real woman's story?).  They did present him as someone who genuinely loved his child, so the realization Maddy is better off with Alex because he's totally unequipped right now to be a custodial parent is a nice thought.

My only complaint about this entire series is something I saw mentioned upthread: how preternaturally well Maddy handled all this chaos.  I'm not a parent and in fact make it one of my missions in life to spend as little time around children as possible, but even I know toddlers are prone to melting down for reasons both obvious and not, and even the most loving of parents to these complicated creatures have to step outside for primal screams.

Maddy's routine - down to the fundamentals of where she lived - changed from one day to the next numerous times, and she spent extended time separated from one parent or the other in a way that was completely different from her norm.  Yet her only freak-outs were over the doll inevitably falling out the car window and the unseen tantrum about being told swing time was over.  Yeah, no.  Alex wouldn't have been any less a mom had she experienced moments where this child she was going through hell for had her totally fed up.

But other than that, I found this refreshingly real and thus raw.  One of the many little realistic touches I like is we never see Danielle again after Alex runs into her on the street.  Will she leave her abuser a fourth time?  Fifth, sixth, seventh?  Never?  Get killed?  We don't know, and that's usually how it goes (I used to run the legal clinic of a DV shelter, and have continued to do policy work after I burned out on direct representation).  I appreciate that not being wrapped up with a tidy bow, given the storytelling temptation to have, instead of a random new family moving in as Alex and Maddy are moving out, Danielle and her son return for at least the hope this leave is the final one.

[Bastet]

I forgot to note one of the things that makes this series great is how many episodes of a show based on a woman's memoir were written and directed by women -- of the ten episodes, six were directed by women (an astounding percentage given the industry norm), and seven were written (one co-written with a man) by women.

[BetyBee]

On 11/6/2021 at 11:32 AM, bilgistic said:

My deadbeat father is a "Christian" but has never once made any amends to my mother or my sisters and me for all of his abuse.

I have so much to say about this series, but I'm wrecked right now. I had watched episodes one through four over the past few weeks and just binged the rest through the night last night.

So, so much of this series rang so true for me.

As someone who has spent a great deal of time in AA rooms, Alex's Dad was portrayed perfectly. IMO he got sober and became a Christian and never did another bit of work on himself. He'd rather watch Sean bully Alex than admit that he did the same to Paula and may still be doing it to his submissive wife, for all we know. In my experience, that type of sober guy never makes true amends. I wonder if Hank  ever paid a penny of child support to benefit Alex? He was a crap father and I wonder if his creepy twins were well aware of his shortcomings and marking time until they get out of that house?

I thought Sean was going to admit that he struck Maddie during his supervised visitation. Thankfully, that was not the case. He just finally had some self awareness about his own shortcomings. The images of Alex inside the sofa and in the pit really told the story of Alex being beaten down by her circumstances. I appreciate the happy ending of the story and of breaking the cycle of low expectations and lousy parenting. Alex and Maddie have a world of opportunities due to Alex breaking the cycle. 

[dubbel zout]

39 minutes ago, BetyBee said:

I wonder if Hank  ever paid a penny of child support to benefit Alex?

It doesn't seem like it, though if he had, I wouldn't be surprised if Paula used it for herself instead. 

[BetyBee]

17 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

It doesn't seem like it, though if he had, I wouldn't be surprised if Paula used it for herself instead. 

If so, he could have sued for custody. Alex even brought that up to him. Instead he spent the rest of his life bashing Paula for her mental illness, but leaving Alex in her care.

[AnimeMania]

Margaret Qualley on Starring With Her Mom in ‘Maid,’ and the Tender Moment Where They Almost Broke Character

[Sun-Bun]

On 1/24/2022 at 6:36 PM, chocolatine said:

I thought that was extremely wasteful and unrealistic, even for a wealthy person.

It was EXTREMELY realistic to me; I worked as a maid in a friend’s cleaning company during college for several years, and the wasteful habits of the upper middle-class/rich folks were often astounding to me. These families had me throw away perfectly good groceries/supplies constantly, never asking once if I could’ve used those items; and like Alex, I was way too proud to ask. 
And I never got the vibe that it was intentional, just that I was seen as “the help” and that my own personal needs were never possibly considered while I was working ‘underneath’ them. Hate to say it, but classism is often a factor as well, and I received more of that type of behavior from the “newer” monied folks(nouveau riche?) versus the old money families, honestly.

Which reminds me that rich lady Regina struck me as VERY new money, what with the callously frosty way she treated Alex and constantly talked down to her whenever she *did* actually bother talking to Alex. 

I've got just two more episodes to go, but have been pleasantly surprised by how much this series gradually sucked me in(just like “Queen’s Gambit” did!)…it’s such a scarily realistic portrayal of the modern working class single mom’s struggle.

Makes me think of my aforementioned single mom friend who had her own cleaning company and similarly struggled like Alex—she couldn’t afford daycare and often took her two girls with her to jobs and “homeschooled” them just to work around her schedule. She also worked as a stripper on the side just to make ends meet, so I admittedly wondered a few times while watching this why Alex didn’t consider such a possibility being as pretty as she is—but I also realize not every woman could morally stomach such a potential side hustle. 

Alex’s bipolar narcissistic mom though, whewwww…that’s a LOT to deal with on its own. It’s been so frustrating to watch her life unravel as much as Alex’s has throughout this series. What an infuriatingly selfish, egotistical moron her mom is(sorry, but I don’t think mental illness is an excuse for problematic behavior, especially as a parent). 
Man, like I wanted to smack her silly when she had the nerve to tell Alex, “nobody ever took MY child away from me.” And then there’s her whole weird jealous rivalry with her daughter, her insane delusions of artistic grandeur, coupled alongside with her godawful taste/idiotic trust in men?! How sad that somehow Alex still felt so indebted to her when it was obvious her mom only cared about Alex when it benefited her own immediate needs.
And honestly, it was a bit triggering for me because my own mom has displayed some extreme selfishness/narcissistic traits that I have dealt with throughout my life as well…love that Margaret and Andie got the rare opportunity to play mother and daughter, because they’re both so wonderful onscreen together.

Crossing my fingers that a happy ending is coming soon for Alex and her sweet daughter: she deserves it! (And all those awful men in her life deserve to choke)

Edited March 19, 2022 by Sun-Bun
Seems that Alex has just as poor taste in men as her mom, coincidentally!

[CrystalBlue]

14 hours ago, Sun-Bun said:

It was EXTREMELY realistic to me; I worked as a maid in a friend’s cleaning company during college for several years, and the wasteful habits of the upper middle-class/rich folks were often astounding to me. These families had me throw away perfectly good groceries/supplies constantly, never asking once if I could’ve used those items; and like Alex, I was way too proud to ask. 
And I never got the vibe that it was intentional, just that I was seen as “the help” and that my own personal needs were never possibly considered while I was working ‘underneath’ them. Hate to say it, but classism is often a factor as well, and I received more of that type of behavior from the “newer” monied folks(nouveau riche?) versus the old money families, honestly.

Which reminds me that rich lady Regina struck me as VERY new money, what with the callously frosty way she treated Alex and constantly talked down to her whenever she *did* actually bother talking to Alex. 

I've got just two more episodes to go, but have been pleasantly surprised by how much this series gradually sucked me in(just like “Queen’s Gambit” did!)…it’s such a scarily realistic portrayal of the modern working class single mom’s struggle.

Makes me think of my aforementioned single mom friend who had her own cleaning company and similarly struggled like Alex—she couldn’t afford daycare and often took her two girls with her to jobs and “homeschooled” them just to work around her schedule. She also worked as a stripper on the side just to make ends meet, so I admittedly wondered a few times while watching this why Alex didn’t consider such a possibility being as pretty as she is—but I also realize not every woman could morally stomach such a potential side hustle. 

Alex’s bipolar narcissistic mom though, whewwww…that’s a LOT to deal with on its own. It’s been so frustrating to watch her life unravel as much as Alex’s has throughout this series. What an infuriatingly selfish, egotistical moron her mom is(sorry, but I don’t think mental illness is an excuse for problematic behavior, especially as a parent). 
Man, like I wanted to smack her silly when she had the nerve to tell Alex, “nobody ever took MY child away from me.” And then there’s her whole weird jealous rivalry with her daughter, her insane delusions of artistic grandeur, coupled alongside with her godawful taste/idiotic trust in men?! How sad that somehow Alex still felt so indebted to her when it was obvious her mom only cared about Alex when it benefited her own immediate needs.
And honestly, it was a bit triggering for me because my own mom has displayed some extreme selfishness/narcissistic traits that I have dealt with throughout my life as well…love that Margaret and Andie got the rare opportunity to play mother and daughter, because they’re both so wonderful onscreen together.

Crossing my fingers that a happy ending is coming soon for Alex and her sweet daughter: she deserves it! (And all those awful men in her life deserve to choke)

Agree with everything, but I'd like to say that while mental illness isn't an excuse for bad behavior, people with mental illness are sometimes not in their right minds.  And it is also sometimes hard to tell where their "normal" bad behavior ends and the real mental illness begins.  Being on the receiving end of it is emotionally painful though, I know.

[Hava]

The problem with Nate wasn't that he liked Alex and asked her out, it's that he continued to ask her out after she declined the first time. 

[Megan]

I just ended up feeling badly for every one. But Alex's father.

Nate thought he deserved the good points but couldn't do it without also expecting something in return. If it was a normal friendship on equal terms (like Alex pointed out) then yeah, he should expect things from a partner. He knew she was homeless and desperate. That made it shitty. She flat out said she wasn't in a place mentally to deal with anything romantic. Picking at her, or trying to slyly convince someone in her situation was not fair.

I don't think he was a horrible person, just he didn't understand. I think Nate has the same problem a lot of people who think they want to help with people in poverty; they want that person to act in a specific way, and get angry or feel betrayed when they don't.

Also I think there is racial aspect, immigrant experience not addressed here because Alex is the main character and I am possibly the whitest person anyone has come into contact with.. but Nate's actor is Indo-Guyanese. I don't pretend to know anything, but culturally from media/articles/etc and I embarrassed to say that Netflix Wedding/match maker show.. young Men have a lot expectations placed on them. Having said all that, it makes me wonder why he was interested in her as more than a hook up.

This might be too political cause a large portion of America is flat out evil, but why wouldn't Alex have had an abortion?  Abstinence religiously based (kowtowing) sex education leads to abuse, neglected children, poverty and rape. That BS can't be happening in the suburbs of Seattle can it? And by this I mean lies about sexuality and abortion. I couldn't understand why she chose this life unless it was a misguided attempt to fix her own childhood  - before she was actually ready or in a position to do so.

(My mother is a narcissist and probably bipolar but has also been in an abusive marriage for the last 20 years. That def clouds my judgement. I keep searching "what do you do if your mom is in an abusive marriage but is also independently a horrible person?"   There is not a lot of useful info because how do you even deal with such a person?)

Also I sincerely apologize for anything I have said that is offensive, that is not my intention.

The poverty we endure and force on women and children in the US is a fucking tragedy. And it's all only going to get worse.

Edited July 30, 2022 by Megan

[aghst]

On 10/17/2021 at 2:56 PM, chocolatine said:

I thought it was a riveting show, though I had a couple of issues with it. I thought it was unrealistic that Maddie was always so calm and good-natured (except for the one time she dropped her doll out the car window). Toddlers have meltdowns, even when they grow up in the most stable of home environments, and even the most patient of parents get exasperated with their toddlers sometimes. It was also unrealistic that Alex didn't have any vices or personal demons, like Sean and Paula. She is the perfect mother, a hard worker, has endless patience with her own mother, is smart enough to get a scholarship twice, and is gorgeous with good teeth to boot. Had she not been so good-looking and well-spoken, and her child not so adorable and angelic, people like Nate and Regina would not have lifted a finger to help her. (And speaking of Nate, I 100% believe that he only helped her because he wanted to date her. Typical "nice guy.")

Loved the show and Qualley's performance.

Her attractiveness does seem to be a factor in this story.  Not just a case of casting some young, pretty actress for a lead role -- she doesn't have heavy makeup but presumably she had some light eye makeup and lipstick on when she's suppose to be cleaning houses.

She's attracted not only Nate but that college student who was her Tinder date, so she probably had other options, including dating someone who was in a higher socioeconomic class.

Maybe young women aren't so status conscious -- Alex is suppose to be in her early to mid '20s?.  But they might be more inclined to date someone who has a steady, relatively well-paying job.

She tells Nate that they can't date because they're unequal and at the time, he was providing food and shelter for her and her daughter.  But she started dating Sean, stopped working and was utterly dependent on him financially.

There was that early scene where she looks past Nate and sees Sean at the restaurant where she waited tables and it seems like the reason she was interested in him was that he was reading Bukowski.

Maybe she was consciously trying to be different than her mother, who seemed to attach herself quickly to men whom she thought would provide for her.  Yet it turns out she chose an abusive man, just as her mother had chosen her father.

It's not clear how long Alex and Sean were together before he showed his ugly side.  The argument they had over her not having an abortion should have been a big red flag but she stayed.  This is when she could have left and even consider not going through with the pregnancy if she found no way to provide for her child.

But also it's not just providing for the child's immediate needs.  It's about being able to support her for almost 20 years at least, maybe planning to save for college for the child.  Still a difficult thing for a young person to decide.

Unless I missed it, they didn't say why she went to Missoula, enjoyed the area around the campus, and then didn't stay in college.  That's another decision that could have changed the course of her life.  Maybe there was an emergency with her mother or maybe taking out a huge loan was daunting.

After she started cleaning houses, she said Maddy is her whole life, which didn't sound too promising, because she was still young herself and she would probably burn out doing backbreaking manual labor without anything else to look forward, the prospect of bettering herself -- finding work she enjoyed or was passionate about -- as well as improving their standard of living.

Then Alex became focused, not just on writing but learning all the things she could do to go back to college.  Otherwise, she might be exhausted at the end of the day to do anything else than be with Maddy.

She believed that her happiest days were ahead of her, as she looked to a new life with her daughter in a new place, a new metier.

[love2lovebadtv]

On 11/12/2021 at 2:31 AM, Kirkydee said:

Pretty good question about retail jobs.  Or fast food or any other entry level job with no experience/degree.  We see the Walmart when Paula uses the parking lot as a home.  I guess i can hand wave it for tv purposes to illustrate the only job the lowly abused single mom could get is cleaning up after others.  Similar to shows where the down on his luck man is a garbage collector

Most other jobs would have taken time to apply for, interview for, train for, and get a pay stub. Money was only part of the equation. To move forward with much-needed services, Alex needed a pay stub. And she needed it fast. I'm not saying cleaning houses is sustainable forever, but I totally get why Alex started there. Cleaning also offers much more flexible shifts than retail, fast food, or serving. It's hard to get daytime hours when you start those jobs. 

On 11/21/2021 at 2:16 PM, dubbel zout said:

What frustrated me most about this show was that they piled so much on Alex. Alcoholic/abusive ex, absent/abusive father, undiagnosed/unmedicated mother—I don't think all of that was necessary.

Maybe it doesn't seem necessary but I like that the show told the story of someone who really doesn't have a support system and how that came to be. It makes sense to me that a passionate, creative, mentally ill Paula married an abusive alcoholic. And I'm not surprised her husband built a better/new life for himself through AA and religion but not without blocking out parts of his old life. And I'm especially not surprised that Alex found herself in a domestic partnership with someone who could relate to and wouldn't judge her for her upbringing (we saw how great Sean was with both of Alex's parents) and was also an abusive alcoholic. 

There are people who come from a healthy, loving home and find themselves in an abusive relationship that makes people question how and why that happened. And oftentimes, because the person came from a supportive background but ultimately found themselves in a terrible situation, they have people in their life who will help them. And then there are people who have no one. That is Alex. 

On 1/24/2022 at 7:49 PM, RachelKM said:

As to the last point, wealthy people, self-made or otherwise, vary wildly as to frugality, both between and among them as well as single individuals by circumstance.  I've known wealthy people that would waste irrational amounts of money in one are of their lives and become oddly conservatives in others.

*By way of explanation, I live in Sacramento and organic fruit and vegetable delivery is common and pretty reasonable here. Less reasonable if you forget to fucking cancel. 

This is so true. Not every wealthy person is the same. I've had some wealthy bosses who were generous to the point that it was uncomfortable. But then, they also were not the kind of people to use a cleaning service. They would have had referrals from other wealthy people who they'd likely treat differently from the cleaners from the cleaning service. 

On 1/31/2022 at 1:04 PM, dubbel zout said:

It doesn't seem like it, though if he had, I wouldn't be surprised if Paula used it for herself instead. 

Hank didn't seem like a huge earner who'd be paying a ton in child support. And Paula didn't seem to live extravagantly. I could buy that, if she received child support, she needed it for room & board and other basics, as Alex's primary parent.

On 7/11/2022 at 10:54 PM, Hava said:

The problem with Nate wasn't that he liked Alex and asked her out, it's that he continued to ask her out after she declined the first time. 

This is the issue. It makes it seem like he continued to help Alex with the hopes of changing her mind after she already declined. 

On 2/18/2023 at 11:03 PM, aghst said:

Loved the show and Qualley's performance.

Her attractiveness does seem to be a factor in this story.  Not just a case of casting some young, pretty actress for a lead role -- she doesn't have heavy makeup but presumably she had some light eye makeup and lipstick on when she's suppose to be cleaning houses.

She's attracted not only Nate but that college student who was her Tinder date, so she probably had other options, including dating someone who was in a higher socioeconomic class.

Maybe young women aren't so status conscious -- Alex is suppose to be in her early to mid '20s?.  But they might be more inclined to date someone who has a steady, relatively well-paying job.

She tells Nate that they can't date because they're unequal and at the time, he was providing food and shelter for her and her daughter.  But she started dating Sean, stopped working and was utterly dependent on him financially.

There was that early scene where she looks past Nate and sees Sean at the restaurant where she waited tables and it seems like the reason she was interested in him was that he was reading Bukowski.

Maybe she was consciously trying to be different than her mother, who seemed to attach herself quickly to men whom she thought would provide for her.  Yet it turns out she chose an abusive man, just as her mother had chosen her father.

It's not clear how long Alex and Sean were together before he showed his ugly side.  The argument they had over her not having an abortion should have been a big red flag but she stayed.  This is when she could have left and even consider not going through with the pregnancy if she found no way to provide for her child.

But also it's not just providing for the child's immediate needs.  It's about being able to support her for almost 20 years at least, maybe planning to save for college for the child.  Still a difficult thing for a young person to decide.

Unless I missed it, they didn't say why she went to Missoula, enjoyed the area around the campus, and then didn't stay in college.  That's another decision that could have changed the course of her life.  Maybe there was an emergency with her mother or maybe taking out a huge loan was daunting.

After she started cleaning houses, she said Maddy is her whole life, which didn't sound too promising, because she was still young herself and she would probably burn out doing backbreaking manual labor without anything else to look forward, the prospect of bettering herself -- finding work she enjoyed or was passionate about -- as well as improving their standard of living.

Then Alex became focused, not just on writing but learning all the things she could do to go back to college.  Otherwise, she might be exhausted at the end of the day to do anything else than be with Maddy.

She believed that her happiest days were ahead of her, as she looked to a new life with her daughter in a new place, a new metier.

I do think Alex's attractiveness is a factor in how she's perceived and whether people are willing to help, not so much whether she's wearing makeup or other enhancements. Young and pretty is just that: young and pretty. 

My understanding is that Alex earned acceptance and a scholarship but then never enrolled. She called the college long after to ask if her acceptance and scholarship were still valid. She ended up having to reapply and it's possible her financial aid package was different this time around since her needs were different; she would be staying in family housing and putting Maddy in daycare (I think on campus?). 

Alex's Tinder date was a casual encounter and the evening seemed to be an opportunity for her to live out a rich person fantasy. That is different from Alex's interaction with Nate, who knew her and who she'd likely see again. And Alex's interaction with Nate is way different from her domestic partnership and having a child with Sean, who seemed to be from a similar socioeconomic background. They understood each other; they could relate to one another. Alex could have dated Nate if she wanted to but the imbalance was an issue for her, and I respect and understand that. 

And I do love that Alex's happiest days were ahead of her. 

[Scarlett45]

I’m sitting down to watch and have re-read all of your comments. I’m very interested in seeing how Alex’s story pays out. 

From episode 1:

The scene with the produce made me so sad. The effect of seeing Alex do the math in her head regarding her checking account and not being able to afford a sandwich and then seeing all that food being composted. Of course I love Anika Noni Rose, she never gets to play “bitchy” characters. 
 

From the first episode I can say, as scary and unsettling as Alex’s situation is, 1. She’s abled bodied, 2. She has a car. But I think of how much easier it would’ve been to get on her feet if she had a stable parent or elder she could’ve stayed with until she found a better job or decided to go back to school. I think about when I was in my late teens early/20s how much wisdom I had around me and how lucky I was. But Alex’s instincts were right to try and get away from Sean before she and and Maddy were seriously injured. 
 

“I pay all the bills.”- damn is it the 1950s????

OMG THE CAR!! Thank god Maddy was okay but the car is all she has. Shit, yes parking in the meridian is illegal but plenty of people would’ve done it with a screaming child crying for her doll. 
 

Hank, couldn’t make room for his daughter and granddaughter for a few nights? Yet he complained about not being able to see them. But it’s often that people are stuck in emotionally bad and toxic relationships with relatives because they are financially dependent on them. (Or inter-dependent)

[Scarlett45]

On 4/16/2023 at 11:33 PM, love2lovebadtv said:

She's attracted not only Nate but that college student who was her Tinder date, so she probably had other options, including dating someone who was in a higher socioeconomic class.

Maybe young women aren't so status conscious -- Alex is suppose to be in her early to mid '20s?.  But they might be more inclined to date someone who has a steady, relatively well-paying job.

I’m sure all have more to say as I watch more episodes but- Yes Alex is a young pretty thin white woman, which is certainly a currency in the heteronormative market place (I am sure it played into her receiving help from Nate). But depending on where you live (I’m speaking of the USA since that’s where I’m from), young thin pretty white women aren’t an oddity, many have college degrees (including incomes of their own) and no children. Yes Alex could’ve sought out a male partner with resources to provide a better life for her and Maddie, but 1. That takes time (not as if said guy was going to appear out of thin air tomorrow and solve her problems), 2. She runs the risk of attracting another Sean (even if he has more money/status) and possibly endangering her and Maddie further, which is the last thing she wants. 
 

Has anyone else here read Promises I Can Keep: Why Poor Women Put Motherhood Before Marriage? Some of the themes are similar. 

[love2lovebadtv]

11 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I’m sure all have more to say as I watch more episodes but- Yes Alex is a young pretty thin white woman, which is certainly a currency in the heteronormative market place (I am sure it played into her receiving help from Nate). But depending on where you live (I’m speaking of the USA since that’s where I’m from), young thin pretty white women aren’t an oddity, many have college degrees (including incomes of their own) and no children. Yes Alex could’ve sought out a male partner with resources to provide a better life for her and Maddie, but 1. That takes time (not as if said guy was going to appear out of thin air tomorrow and solve her problems), 2. She runs the risk of attracting another Sean (even if he has more money/status) and possibly endangering her and Maddie further, which is the last thing she wants. 
 

Has anyone else here read Promises I Can Keep: Why Poor Women Put Motherhood Before Marriage? Some of the themes are similar. 

It looks like you quoted the person I was quoting lol. I actually agree with you here that Alex has "pretty privilege" here in the US but that doesn't mean she automatically has her pick of partners. 

[Scarlett45]

11 minutes ago, love2lovebadtv said:

It looks like you quoted the person I was quoting lol. I actually agree with you here that Alex has "pretty privilege" here in the US but that doesn't mean she automatically has her pick of partners. 

Oh my mistake thank you! Yes “pretty privilege” is a thing, but when you’re young you’re in a pool with a lot of people with that same privilege. 
 

Episode 2-

Danielle told Alex the right thing “it grows like mold.” Alex had to get away from Sean ASAP. 

But they stole the woman’s dog??? I know people do that, will kidnap dogs for money because they know people love their dogs and will gladly pay to get them back. 
 

Like most relationships Sean and Alex started out with mutual attraction and affection, and now Alex is trapped with a baby in tow. I say trapped because she was the one caring for Maddie full time she doesn’t have an income like Sean does. I’m not surprised Danielle went back. May she and her son be ok. 

[Scarlett45]

On 2/18/2023 at 10:03 PM, aghst said:

It's not clear how long Alex and Sean were together before he showed his ugly side.  The argument they had over her not having an abortion should have been a big red flag but she stayed.  This is when she could have left and even consider not going through with the pregnancy if she found no way to provide for her child.

 

I whole heartedly agree with you. But I can also believe that Alex wanted the baby (someone to love, to give her purpose) and she wanted to believe Sean would “grow to love” her and the baby. She’s not the first young woman to think things like that and she won’t be the last. Maybe if she had grown up with more stable caregivers she may not have thought that way. 
 

I have had friends in far better positions than Alex (educated, full time jobs, could provide financially for a child etc, no abuse or anything like that), who wanted to believe this and were broken hearted when it didn’t happen.

[Scarlett45]

Episode 3- Alex didn’t have a bank account for TWO YEARS because Sean took her debit card away?? I’m not surprised, this happens, it’s like something out of a text book. How things escalate. 
 

Paula is no fucking help, she’s a mess just an older mess, at least it looks like she only had the one child and her reproductive life span is over so she is only going to be responsible for herself. Andie McDowell is doing with the part though. 

Side note- why is it only women in the parenting class? Of course I would expect it to be predominately women, but not a single man??

 

My Mom says I will never understand fully because I’m childfree (and I can accept that), but if I was Alex I’d let Sean rot. It’s not as if he was a good person and it just didn’t work out (of course she would want Maddy to have a loving parent), but he’s an abusive shit who tried to take Maddy from her. I’d have left him on that beach, let him get fired and gotten my kid back. 
 

Ideally Sean would get himself into a program, stay sober, get help and be a good father to Maddie (and never hurt another partner again), but I’m not holding my breath. 

[Scarlett45]

Episode 4- so I admit I have a soft spot for Raymond Ablack (Nate) because I watched him on Degrassi back in the day, and he is a cutie🥰. But this isn’t going to end well I can tell. Nate is doing all this for her because he likes her and wants her to like him back, she’s pretty and seems nice, I don’t think he doesn’t actually like her, but he may have a “Capt Save a Ho” complex, wanting to be the night in shining armor. (He is divorced with a child, so he may want to prove to himself that he’s desirable as a partner) When you’re a poor single mother with a child you are vulnerable to would seek to exploit you. I don’t think Nate is that type (and the comments here confirm that he’s not), but it’s emotionally fraught. 
 

I would think in a woman in a situation like that you need to either know going into it “I’m with this man because he is decent and kind to me/my kid, I need the resources, so I’m going to provide him companionship and partnered sex until I can get myself together.” I don’t think Alex is an emotional place to do that nor does she want to; not saying she should have to, just saying if you’re doing to be in a relationship like that you have to be emotionally honest with yourself about it. 
 

Those montages from the Tinder profiles were a hoot! I understand why Alex would be on Tinder. A chance for a free meal/coffee, to feel wanted, have sex and not have to think about how crappy her life has been going for a while is appealing. If she’s not feeling it a Tinder date she can ignore, she has more to lose if she blows off Nate (they are Facebook friends and probably know plenty of people in common). 
 

Anika Noni Rose is a national treasure. If her husband had biological children (likely grown or at least teenagers by his age) why did they go through all that???? If she didn’t want a baby using a donor and he doesn’t want another child who’s going to raise this one?? I’m glad Regina PAID ALEX for the work she did, ummm that was the least she could do. 
 

Alex was wise to work and not go to Sean’s. The way he’s looking at her and she was looking at him they will hook up, conceive another child and she will go back to him. And 5yrs from now she will have made not an ounce of progress with two kids to feed. 

[Scarlett45]

Episode 5- having a consistent reliable caregiver is always the biggest hurdle. Poor Maddy and that cough, all bundled up her coat! (Yes they must’ve filmed this in sequence because I see the little girl who plays Maddy getting older. 
 

Yeah Dad- you shouldn’t have dropped your daughter and baby grandchild at a FERRY STATION, some “Christian”. I have no patience for parents that constantly bash the other parent yet just left their minor child with them. 1. It’s inconsiderate to bash your child’s parent to them, 2. If you knew they were so awful why did you leave your child with them??

[Scarlett45]

Episode 6- Raymond Ablack (Nate) is a CUTIE, but if Nate was getting weird asking so much why did she go to the playground? I get Alex is in a tough spot, but she either wants his friendship/help or she doesn’t. She has a right to set boundaries it not associate with him, but again that goes both ways.

 I do want Sean to stay sober and be a great Dad to Maddy. It’s possible, I’ve seen people do it and make amends to their loved ones but it’s a hard road. Howd Sean get into the house??? And this is how she ends up at Nate’s. 
 

[Scarlett45]

On 7/30/2022 at 12:39 AM, Megan said:

Also I think there is racial aspect, immigrant experience not addressed here because Alex is the main character and I am possibly the whitest person anyone has come into contact with.. but Nate's actor is Indo-Guyanese. I don't pretend to know anything, but culturally from media/articles/etc and I embarrassed to say that Netflix Wedding/match maker show.. young Men have a lot expectations placed on them. Having said all that, it makes me wonder why he was interested in her as more than a hook up.

Episode 7-There’s a lot of status in having a white wife/girl friend for men of color. Given that Nate already had a child that appeared to be with a woman of his background, he may have been interested in the status “having Alex” would give him in the USA. I know plenty of men of color who see white women as the “prize” to have under white patriarchy, and would want to date a woman primarily because she was white, where they would expect a woman of another ethnic background to check a bunch of other boxes (like education and income) along with being physically/emotionally attracted them before they would date them. Im sure it was intentional that Nate was attractive and accomplished but played by an actor that wasn’t white. 
 

One thing I am loving about this series is how complex and multi-layered everyone is. We can see that Sean is bad for Alex, and he has problems with alcohol, and but you can also understand that he doesn’t want to repeat his childhood with Maddy (his talk with Alex at the gas station was sincere). I can also see how alone Alex feels and how she would be tempted to lean on Sean in a time like this even though it’s a bad idea. Not wanting to repeat the mistakes of the past is great, but you have to make active steps to do that. No, neither Sean nor Alex speak that way to Maddy, but Maddy is 3. She adores them because her needs are very simple right now, who’s to say when she’s 13 and has an opinion on their flaws they wouldn’t be tempted to go right for the jugular. 
 

AND….I knew Sean and Alex would hook up again. This is how people keep getting back with ex’s that are bad for them!

[Scarlett45]

Episode 8- So I think Alex shouldn’t have told Nate that she had sex with Sean. It wasn’t any of his business and she needed the place to stay that was safe. She should’ve texted him and let her know her mom was in the hospital given Maddy was with him. Nate WAS kind to let her keep the car, but he offered her a place to stay because he liked her, and confessing that she had sex with Sean killed the illusion that if he waited and was patient enough she would come around to the idea of having sex with him. Didn’t I say this lack of boundaries with a guy like Nate was going to bite Alex in the behind? When you’re someone’s charity case you aren’t an autonomous adult. Worse case you’re exploited. Nate isn’t a criminal or jerk so he wouldn’t hurt her or Maddie (thank god) but his intentions weren’t just to help her- they were to purse a relationship that he wanted to have. 
 

Regina is a great character (Anika Noni Rose is amazing obviously), but she could’ve closed the garage door and rolled down the window, gone to pee and come back and gotten the baby. He would’ve been ok. He’s a cute little fella! Where’s her baby nurse? She knew the baby was coming she didn’t hire someone to help her?

Sean still gives me the creeps when he suggested they share phones, what the hell? This is the same guy who took her debit card and she didn’t have a bank account for two years. And now her car is gone. I am not surprised. 

[Scarlett45]

On 11/3/2021 at 2:02 AM, Kirkydee said:

I thought it was odd for Alex to keep going back to rescue her mother time after time, but Alex probably saw her future self in Paula.  A homeless woman with a fractured relationship w/ her daughter getting used by men

Her mother was her primary caregiver. Also, it seems as if her mother was the only adult to give her any sort of attention and affection. Even if her mother was emotionally unstable and parentified her, she did care about her and meet her basic needs. Many children still love their parents after they are abusive, I’m not surprised Alex loved her mother who probably had moments where she was very loving and things were good. Alex also likely knows her mother isn’t well and isn’t doing these things just to be an asshole. She would want Maddy to care for her if she ended up in that situation like you said. 

[Scarlett45]

Episode 9- Alex seems to be sinking into a serious depression and who could blame her? This is the first episode where I’ve seen a super strong resemblance between Andi MacDowell and Margaret Qualley, their face shape is the same, but she looks to have her father’s nose. (Her father was a model so obviously she’s gorgeous with two gorgeous parents.) The imagery of her in the black pit is simple yet powerful.

I hate Sean. Of course I feel badly for the trauma he experienced as a child, but rather than work on himself he punches down on the mother of his child. Someone he can control. Ugh I hate that she went back there but I know why she did. That poor baby hid in the cupboard!

I am glad Regina helped her out and got her to DV safe house. Individuals who run those types of services should be revered. They are much needed and life saving. 

[Scarlett45]

Episode 10- Alex’s Dad sucks ass. Your daughter and grandchild are in an emergency shelter and all you can think about is SEAN?? (Projection much) Yes Sean should work in his sobriety but why should Alex & Maddy be in danger. There’s still hope Sean can get sober and be a good Dad in the future because he wants to try. 
 

This mini series was MUCH better than the book. I’m late to the party but so glad I took time to watch. I can’t wait to see Margaret in more things, she’s quite talented!

[chocolatine]

12 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I can’t wait to see Margaret in more things, she’s quite talented!

I agree, and I think she's more talented than her mother. An unlikely spin on the "Hollywood nepo baby" stereotype.

[aghst]

Stephanie Land, the writer of the book on which this limited series is based, is promoting a sequel book called "Class."

She sits down for an interview with Fresh Air, talks about food insecurity, figuring out how to feed her kids.

https://www.npr.org/2023/11/20/1214148762/stephanie-land-maid-class

 

[Scarlett45]

On 11/20/2023 at 5:30 PM, aghst said:

Stephanie Land, the writer of the book on which this limited series is based, is promoting a sequel book called "Class."

She sits down for an interview with Fresh Air, talks about food insecurity, figuring out how to feed her kids.

https://www.npr.org/2023/11/20/1214148762/stephanie-land-maid-class

 

I read Stephanie’s book and I did NOT care for it or her writing. This was one instance where the screen version was far better than the book IMO.