S03.E01: Exiles

[qtpye]

I wonder if the show will capture how “cool” the Clintons seemed at the time, as hard as it is to believe now.

I think he might have been the first Boomer president. He and Al Gore almost seemed like frat bros having fun. I remember how my Dad’s friends could not believe that the president was around their age.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

I wonder if the show will capture how “cool” the Clintons seemed at the time, as hard as it is to believe now.

I think he might have been the first Boomer president. He and Al Gore almost seemed like frat bros having fun.

Which makes me wonder how they're going to portray Tipper Gore.

[EtheltoTillie]

4 hours ago, MamaMax said:

the prosthetic nose is a little much for me. Its distracting.

I think the prosthetic nose mimics the real one--before Paula Jones had plastic surgery.  Paula Jones's real nose looked like Lucille Ball's in the episode where she meets William Holden and lights her prosthetic nose on fire. 

[MamaMax]

1 hour ago, GussieK said:

I think the prosthetic nose mimics the real one--before Paula Jones had plastic surgery.  Paula Jones's real nose looked like Lucille Ball's in the episode where she meets William Holden and lights her prosthetic nose on fire. 

I suppose I just feel like its not a very convincing prosthetic so when I see it it reminds me its an actress. 

[willco]

I'm a bit late but I just got finished with the 1st episode, so I thought I' add my 2 cents. I've always been a big news-on-tv watcher and I was already out of college when this all went down and I do remember it all fairly well. So far, my feelings about the people involved, what I thought back in real time are matching what the show is showing ( if that makes sense ?). Monica- very young & quite naive. Tripp, an awful person and an even worse friend. I mean, really, what a user ! The President, so not to excuse his actions or the things he did, in any way, but he most likely isn't even the worst offender for a President this country has ever had- ( and this is coming from someone who is most often a Republican.) Had he been in office before technology & the media became so involved, he might have gotten away with all his misdeeds. Having said that, there's an old saying about for every rat you see, there's a 100 you don't. I'd bet the same applies to sexual indiscretions. Although 100 may be too high, there's probably a lot more than ever came to light.

I almost skipped this one because I have seen it all before, but I did like the premier, so I'll keep watching.

[DanaK]

It seems a couple of my posts got lost in the ether, so I’ll just repeat some major points that hopefully stick to just this episode. 

I was in my 30s when this went down and kept up with news, so I remember the events fairly well and most of the players, including Kathleen Willey and Paula Jones, though I don’t remember much about Paula’s husband. They are portraying Paula about as naive as I expected (and the same with Monica), and at least as portrayed here, Paula was used by the right wing to try to get Clinton on something. For me, the scandal wasn’t just about consensual sex. Clinton was the president and should have been much more careful. His opponents were clearly after him and he would seem to give them ammunition with his affair with Monica. Plus Willey was indicating to Linda that something non-consensual apparently happened between her and Clinton and Paula accused him of coming on to her and showing his thingy. And Monica could have snapped and harmed or killed him.

They are portraying Linda Tripp about as nasty as I expected though I didn’t know that much about her personally at the time, but her behavior was pretty bad. And I’d like to point out that I was a Federal employee for 32 years until I retired 2 years ago, so I know Linda as a civil servant could have gotten transferred to some other agency if she was so unhappy with the Clintons, but it appears she liked being close to the power. Unlike a political appointee, civil servants can’t be fired just because a new administration’s coming in, which is probably why they just simply transferred her to Siberia, ie the Pentagon, instead of doing the real work of documenting her poor behavior and then firing her for it. I was pretty unhappy with the Clintons at the time but I was in an agency that was fairly well distant from the personalities of the White House. If I had been more up close and personal, I probably would have rage quit with several administrations. It did appear that there were more accusations against the Clintons than actual evidence, including Whitewater, ie more smoke than fire, at least within the Administration and at least up to the point of this episode. The affair with Monica, as depicted here in this episode, appeared to be real, and as depicted in this episode, you just know Clinton’s opponents will perk up their ears at anything they can get him on, so it’s clear where this is headed.

Needless to say, I somewhat enjoyed this first episode, even if it was a little long and there was a lot of setup. I do agree that they could have done a better job to identify the players for those not familiar with all the personalities 

Edited September 14, 2021 by DanaK

[chlban]

On 9/9/2021 at 6:09 AM, absnow54 said:

This was my major gripe. Edie Falco looked like Senator Hillary Clinton in that scene, not macarena leading First Lady Hillary Clinton.

Yep. That was off for me as well. 

[hoodooznoodooz]

On 9/7/2021 at 11:51 PM, SailorGirl said:

Here's the link to the first part of the "Black and White" documentary. The rest will show up in the queue as you watch them. 
 

 

Thanks for linking this. I’m still watching. It surprised me that

Spoiler

after the Federal agents ushered her into the hotel room, she claims that one of the first things she wanted to do was warn Bill Clinton.

 

Edited September 15, 2021 by hoodooznoodooz

[Clawdel]

I've watched the first two episodes and am definitely going to watch the A&E Special about the scandal. The clips I've seen so far have really turned me into a huge fan of Monica Lewinsky. What a lovely and intelligent woman! I'm glad she survived. No one could pay me enough to live through my early 20's again.

[Scout Finch]

On 9/13/2021 at 5:09 AM, hoodooznoodooz said:

Paula Jones’s husband was Ghost Elvis in “Mystery Train”!!!!

I was obsessed with Jim Jarmusch films.

That's my favorite Jarmusch film! Sometime in the '90s, there was a couple here in Portland who were obviously hardcore fans of it because they opened a short-lived café called Jiffy Squid. (You might recall that an ad for a place called Jiffy Squid comes on the radio at the hotel desk.) I think it's safe to assume that there were very, very few of us who knew the origin of that name!

[Scout Finch]

I had forgotten about Monica's local connection until now. The world's press descended upon my neighborhood--several blocks from my house--when this news broke. It doesn't paint the most flattering picture of her, however, it's not nearly as bad as how this sleazy married teacher looked! https://apnews.com/article/72f0adaa3be1565abcc8643184d830fd

[Milburn Stone]

On 9/14/2021 at 12:18 AM, DanaK said:

They are portraying Linda Tripp about as nasty as I expected...

That said, the show is making me understand where her nastiness is coming from. At times I almost feel...compassion?

[qtpye]

10 hours ago, Scout Finch said:

I had forgotten about Monica's local connection until now. The world's press descended upon my neighborhood--several blocks from my house--when this news broke. It doesn't paint the most flattering picture of her, however, it's not nearly as bad as how this sleazy married teacher looked! https://apnews.com/article/72f0adaa3be1565abcc8643184d830fd

From the article:

Quote

`This is a grown woman,″ Ginsburg said. ``She has had relationships with men. That is neither shocking nor is it surprising.″

Giles said Ms. Lewinsky told Bleiler that she was having oral sex with a ``high-ranking White House official″ and was ``frustrated and agitated″ that that was all he wanted to have.

As many have stated Monica has grown into an impressive lady who has learned from her mistakes.

However, how much do you want to shake her for missing the obvious clues that this man was just using her back then?

The fact that Linda was encouraging this while her true friend was telling her to move on just goes to show you how much she wanted to believe this was real.

[Scout Finch]

It was ridiculous how Bleiler's wife put it all on Monica. I'm pretty sure I recall that the whole reason he moved his family up to Portland was just to be near her to continue their five-year affair. As her attorney said he found it hard to believe Bleiler's claim that, "This 19-year-old girl forced me into a relationship and would not let me out of the relationship." I wonder if it's true about the abortion (I'm pro-choice, no judgment!) and the timing of it after she left the White House. Curious as to whether the Bleilers are still together! I think they moved away from my neighborhood due to all the press scrutiny. 

ETA: Nope. “Determined to prove Tonya Harding wasn’t a fluke, Portland coughed up another hairball, the ponytailed Andy Bleiler. Now Kate Nason, the aforementioned hairball’s former wife, has come out with her side of the story, a recently released audiobook, Everything Is Perfect. Nason lives in Portland and is now married to artist Tad Savinar. She largely survived Bleiler’s affair, and that press conference, with dignity intact."

Edited September 18, 2021 by Scout Finch

[Neiman]

Finally got my Sling On Demand to show me episode 1 after waiting all last weekend for it to load 🙄 I recently watched all of ACS Versace season 2, and I’m already liking this one better. Maybe it’s the topic. Maybe it’s the pacing.  However, I’d prefer they go on chronological order. 

I recall seeing the headlines and names, but I never got deeply involved with the story or know much about the people. I never saw the SNL portrayals of Tripp. My husband thinks Linda is nuts, but I’m loving her character and the way Paulsen portrays her. Paulsen made me sympathetic toward Marcia Clark, and I’m feeling the same toward Linda at this point, although she did come across as an overbearing know it all in that little job interview. 

I agree with the comments about the casting of Hilary. Missed the mark on that one. Paula’s husband expecting a role on Designing Women was hilarious. No surprise they divorced.
 

 

[AuntieMame]

On 9/18/2021 at 11:06 AM, Scout Finch said:

It was ridiculous how Bleiler's wife put it all on Monica. I'm pretty sure I recall that the whole reason he moved his family up to Portland was just to be near her to continue their five-year affair. As her attorney said he found it hard to believe Bleiler's claim that, "This 19-year-old girl forced me into a relationship and would not let me out of the relationship." I wonder if it's true about the abortion (I'm pro-choice, no judgment!) and the timing of it after she left the White House. Curious as to whether the Bleilers are still together! I think they moved away from my neighborhood due to all the press scrutiny. 

ETA: Nope. “Determined to prove Tonya Harding wasn’t a fluke, Portland coughed up another hairball, the ponytailed Andy Bleiler. Now Kate Nason, the aforementioned hairball’s former wife, has come out with her side of the story, a recently released audiobook, Everything Is Perfect. Nason lives in Portland and is now married to artist Tad Savinar. She largely survived Bleiler’s affair, and that press conference, with dignity intact."

Monica had an abortion? That I’ve never read or heard. Are you implying it was Clinton’s? I

[Scout Finch]

44 minutes ago, AuntieMame said:

Monica had an abortion? That I’ve never read or heard. Are you implying it was Clinton’s? I

From the AP article: "[Bleiler's attorney] Giles said Ms. Lewinsky told the couple that after she had been reassigned from the White House to the Pentagon, she had an abortion. Giles did not address the question of who the father might have been." It was just odd that the attorney brought it up. There hadn't been any intercourse (therefore the weak semantic defense about not having had "sexual relations with that woman.") I thought, and still do, that Bill was a great president but remember being really disappointed in him. 

[AuntieMame]

Wow, that makes you wonder doesn’t it. Thank you for the information. I’m not sure what to think since so much was made of the absolutely no intercourse thing, but as another poster put it in the discussions here, what was Bill, twelve? Because isn’t it generally teenagers who do the whole everything but intercourse thing? At the time the insistence that this somehow made it not sex just irked me. And would any of us be less angry at a spouse who’d “only” had oral sex? Because I think I’d be just as hurt, angry and betrayed. 

[chocolatine]

5 minutes ago, AuntieMame said:

I’m not sure what to think since so much was made of the absolutely no intercourse thing, but as another poster put it in the discussions here, what was Bill, twelve? Because isn’t it generally teenagers who do the whole everything but intercourse thing? At the time the insistence that this somehow made it not sex just irked me. And would any of us be less angry at a spouse who’d “only” had oral sex? Because I think I’d be just as hurt, angry and betrayed. 

Maybe it was the boundary that Bill and Hillary agreed upon? By that time Bill had already cheated on Hillary multiple times. She had probably resigned herself that he'd never be 100% faithful, but if she got to dictate some of the terms, and Bill complied, that may have given her a feeling of being somewhat in control. Also, it's possible that Bill didn't want to risk impregnating anyone. It's one thing to be a president who cheats on his wife, and another to father a child with a mistress. 

[Picture It. Sicily]

She discussed the abortion in the big Barbara Walters interview. She was dating someone at the Pentagon

[AuntieMame]

9 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Maybe it was the boundary that Bill and Hillary agreed upon? By that time Bill had already cheated on Hillary multiple times. She had probably resigned herself that he'd never be 100% faithful, but if she got to dictate some of the terms, and Bill complied, that may have given her a feeling of being somewhat in control. Also, it's possible that Bill didn't want to risk impregnating anyone. It's one thing to be a president who cheats on his wife, and another to father a child with a mistress. 

That makes sense, people do come to an arrangement, but Hillary seemed so hurt, angry and betrayed at the time, not like a wife resigned to her husband’s peccadilloes. Though perhaps another part of that was please don’t get caught again, but Bill has been caught numerous times before too. 

38 minutes ago, Picture It. Sicily said:

She discussed the abortion in the big Barbara Walters interview. She was dating someone at the Pentagon

Ok, well that kind of puts a new spin on the waiting by the phone and never leaving the house and the feelings. Because if Monica was dating someone else, that would kind of automatically shake at least some of the love crazy out of her head. Why on earth would she mention it publicly? That doesn’t make sense to me. It makes her look bad. Pro choice here but the country isn’t officially pro choice even though in polls over seventy percent are in general agreement with early abortion. 

Edited September 26, 2021 by AuntieMame

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 9/8/2021 at 1:30 AM, gesundheit said:

I know we only had a few seconds of him but to me, Clive Owen is by far the most miscast so far. Just seems like Clive Owen in makeup.

I understand casting Brits as Americans and vice versa happens a lot.... but when someone is an actual American icon (not saying in a positive or negative way - just that everyone fucking knows Clinton is American)?  Why do it?  It's just mind boggling to me.  There are actors out there who could pass for Bill so much better than this.

It really makes me roll my eyes when people are so stubborn like this.  Like they just wanted to work with Clive so they tried to fit him in the role.

On 9/8/2021 at 11:32 PM, Utpe said:

I don't really care for Cobie Smulders playing Ann Coulter.  I can't help but to burst out laughing whenever she's on-screen.  Perhaps it has something to do with watching Cobie on "How I Met Your Mother" for nine years.

Too bad Betty Gilpin had to bow out from the show due to scheduling conflicts.

Yup, this too.  She looks just like herself.

Edited September 28, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[qtpye]

2 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I understand casting Brits as Americans and vice versa happens a lot.... but when someone is an actual American icon (not saying in a positive or negative way - just that everyone fucking knows Clinton is American)?  Why do it?  It's just mind boggling to me.  There are actors out there who could pass for Bill so much better than this.

It really makes me roll my eyes when people are so stubborn like this.  Like they just wanted to work with Clive so they tried to fit him in the role.

Yup, this too.  She looks just like herself.

I love Clive and agree that he is totally wrong for the part.

From his spare frame to his bulbous prosthetic nose...it is just not right.

[Picture It. Sicily]

15 hours ago, qtpye said:

I love Clive and agree that he is totally wrong for the part.

From his spare frame to his bulbous prosthetic nose...it is just not right.

I have a problem with the prosthetics in general. If three of your main cast member need to change their appearances so much that they need hours in the makeup chair and you're not making Planet of the Apes, you're not doing a good job at casting.

[Ms Blue Jay]

6 hours ago, Picture It. Sicily said:

I have a problem with the prosthetics in general. If three of your main cast member need to change their appearances so much that they need hours in the makeup chair and you're not making Planet of the Apes, you're not doing a good job at casting.

Also I understand that Ryan Murphy and Sarah Paulson are BFF or whatever, but it's ridiculous to hire a thin blonde Hollywood actor and then put her in a fat suit.  It's so insulting.  Pretending that a woman over a size 10 cannot act and you just could not hire one for the show.  Ridiculous.

Edited September 29, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[ifionlyknew]

18 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Also I understand that Ryan Murphy and Sarah Paulson are BFF or whatever, but it's ridiculous to hire a thin blonde Hollywood actor and then put her in a fat suit.  It's so insulting.  Pretending that a woman over a size 10 cannot act and you just could not hire one for the show.  Ridiculous.

I get that SP is a good actress but she gets so many roles.  Can we spread the wealth around?  That being said if I didn't know that was SP playing Linda Tripp I would have had no idea.

[mostlylurking]

I was in my late teens/early 20’s at the time so when all this shit went down I remember feeling so badly for Monica.  Linda Tripp was a vengeful cow and I saw no reason for her behavior whatsoever.  She had a cushy job at the White House but her miserableness did her no favors, gained her no friends, and she was just lucky her ass didn’t end up out on the street.  Remember what that other lady said, she actually got a pay INCREASE to go to the Pentagon so she was pretty much being paid to leave the White House.  She was that massively unlikeable.  Shame on her.

Paula Jones and that nose, wow.  I so remember that.  I think the actress playing her is a dead ringer.  The prosthetic nose is a lot but, well, real Paula’s nose was a lot.

The weird thing about this case is that honestly it all seems so tame now.  When this happened it was so scandalous.  Not to excuse Bill in any way, but our world has become so outrageous this doesn’t seem like that big of a scandal anymore.

[SarahPrtr]

On 9/8/2021 at 1:32 PM, peridot said:

The way Linda self-promoted during her interview was so embarrassing.  I can't believe she had the nerve to wait almost two years later to write a book.  She's a slimy person.  That ambush in the beginning was terrible.

Reminded me of that soulless, repulsive Faye Resnick who also used the death of her 'friend' to release a book and talk about herself.

 

On 9/8/2021 at 1:35 PM, SailorGirl said:

Did I mention how absolutely awful Linda Tripp was?? I don't see Paulson at all here, just Tripp, which means she is nailing this. 

I didn't see Paulson at all!  Didn't recognise her one bit.  Wasn't expecting to see her again, because she was already in season 1. 

 

Quote

I'm so glad Monica Lewinsky has finally been able to come into her own with a sense of humor and grace. Her tweets often win the Internet. What she was put through was absolutely horrible. I never understood why she was the one getting all of the vitriol and everyone else was let off the hook because of who they were. She was the perfect scapegoat and worse yet, was unapologetic about not only her feelings about him but that she enjoyed the sex. How DARE she! Fuckin' patriarchy. . . .
 

Yeah, that was the good ol' fashion sexism right there.  Men can do what/whomever they want, especially the ones in power and it's the women they sleep with who get the short end of the stick.  This is not me spouting some hateful or feminist mantra, just pointing out the way that so many people say one thing and do something else.

Edited October 10, 2021 by SarahPrtr
.

[SarahPrtr]

On 9/8/2021 at 1:39 PM, Blakeston said:

I found this very depressing and unpleasant to watch.

Linda Tripp was an awful person? I didn't need to watch this to know that. Ann Coulter is an awful person? Already knew that too.

It just lacked the energy that the previous ACS premieres had.

I think because the first two seasons involved multiple violent murders of/by famous people, whereas this season is more of a scandal.

 

On 9/9/2021 at 10:27 AM, Toonces464 said:

I love Sarah Paulson but I can already tell this one isn't going to pull me in the way the previous two did. I followed the OJ case and the Versace case. I didn't follow all this Lewinsky stuff at all because frankly I didn't care. I'm disappointed this is what they chose to do after two such compelling stories.

I thought it was going to be another murder crime story.  I was thinking maybe they were going to do a season on The Unabomber or Charles Manson or maybe Gertrude Baniszewski?  I know that there are famous cases which would have made an interesting season, but then again, killers like Ted Bundy, Jeffrey Dahmer and Son of Sam have been discussed so many times in the media, so maybe they went another route.

[SarahPrtr]

On 9/26/2021 at 1:41 PM, chocolatine said:

Maybe it was the boundary that Bill and Hillary agreed upon? By that time Bill had already cheated on Hillary multiple times. She had probably resigned herself that he'd never be 100% faithful, but if she got to dictate some of the terms, and Bill complied, that may have given her a feeling of being somewhat in control. Also, it's possible that Bill didn't want to risk impregnating anyone. It's one thing to be a president who cheats on his wife, and another to father a child with a mistress. 

A lot of women (yes, men too) who are married to very wealthy and/or powerful men have the same 'understanding'.  That whole "Screw whomever you want, as long as you still come home to ME at the end." thing.  They 'sacrifice' their integrity to be the wife/husband of a powerful person.

 

On 9/29/2021 at 6:55 AM, Ms Blue Jay said:

I understand casting Brits as Americans and vice versa happens a lot.... but when someone is an actual American icon (not saying in a positive or negative way - just that everyone fucking knows Clinton is American)?  Why do it?  It's just mind boggling to me.  There are actors out there who could pass for Bill so much better than this.

When I first saw him from the side when he was on the phone with Monica, I actually thought it was Brett Cullen.  He's kind of the same build and they're both 6 ft 2.

 

On 9/29/2021 at 9:02 AM, qtpye said:

I love Clive and agree that he is totally wrong for the part.

From his spare frame to his bulbous prosthetic nose...it is just not right.

And I like Clive Owen too, but was completely taken aback when I saw him.  You're right.  Really strange choice.  I have always thought that he would make a good James Bond... but not William Jefferson Clinton!

[Kel Varnsen]

This season is now available on Disney plus in Canada so I watched the first episode tonight. Do far not bad. It's weird, I seemed to know a lot about the OJ trial, pretty much nothing about Gianni Versace, and somewhere in the middle for this one. So other than the major players it was a lot of looking up who people were. And personally I don't care if people don't look exactly like the people they are playing, since it is not like it's some kind of Crimestoppers reenactment.

It was hilarious seeing Margo Martindale though. I just finished watching The Americans, and the timelines kind of line up, so it's going to be hard not to see her as a deep cover Russian spy.

Also cool to see Cobie Smulders, I always like her in stuff. Although she doesn't look very good as a blonde. 

Lastly Linda's stupid tinted glasses are super annoying. I have glasses that go dark when in the sun and I hate how long it takes for them to change back to clear when I come inside. Since wearing sunglasses inside looks stupid.