S05.E07: And the Fight Had a Détente...

[Cranberry]

Quote

At Circuit 9 3/4 court, Marissa is assigned to "prosecute" two contrasting "cancel culture" cases, which both leave her questioning the intentions of Wackner, David Cord and Del Cooper. The tension between Diane and Liz increases while they work together on a high profile case against the Chicago PD.

Original air date: August 5, 2021

[Roseanna]

The best episode in this season so far:

- in prosecuting two cases about cancel-culture Marisa was asked why she put far more energy in one case (which concerned women) than another (which concerned Afro-Americans)

- Marisa challenged the "judge's" partiality and "the court's" background was again dealt (although not wholly)

- the partiality and lies in newsreporting

- how Diane and Liz used "news" about their "relationship" for the good of their case

[Quark]

4 hours ago, Roseanna said:

The best episode in this season so far:

- in prosecuting two cases about cancel-culture Marisa was asked why she put far more energy in one case (which concerned women) than another (which concerned Afro-Americans)

- Marisa challenged the "judge's" partiality and "the court's" background was again dealt (although not wholly)

- the partiality and lies in newsreporting

- how Diane and Liz used "news" about their "relationship" for the good of their case

I'd go one step further and say this was one of the best episodes of the series.

Superb.

Christine Baranski, Audra McDonald, Sarah Steele and Mandy Patinkin were phenomenal.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Showing your d!ck to someone under non-consensual circumstances isn't assault?

Liz and Diane lesbian lovers? That's hilarious. Diane should sic Kurt on that Fox news guy since those are generally his people.

I can't believe Liz is still seeing the TV producer guy. AFAIC, he's trash making money off trash.

Lol, Diane and Liz leaned into it. That judge was all about virtue-signaling, nevermind that the revelation about Liz and Diane was a fairy tale woven from thin air.

OMG, now that's taking a joke over the edge once you're signing HR documents making a fake relationship official. Eventually  they probably will have to claim they're bisexual. Or Liz could get her boyfriend to release an R-rated sex tape of them together.

Edited August 7, 2021 by Joimiaroxeu

[meatball77]

The way the two of them just started laughing their heads off when the rest of the partners were "very worried" about the news and thought they would be upset was hilarious.  Now they're acting like they've been fighting and broke up. . . .

[Roseanna]

3 hours ago, meatball77 said:

The way the two of them just started laughing their heads off when the rest of the partners were "very worried" about the news and thought they would be upset was hilarious.

Yes, it was hilarious in the show. But how would one feel IRL when your marriage was publicly labelled a fake? 

[Broderbits]

11 hours ago, Roseanna said:

But how would one feel IRL when your marriage was publicly labelled a fake? 

Like Diane would give 2 figs what Fake Tucker Carlson thought about her marriage! She had a good laugh the first time she was "outed" by the Duke character; I think the subsequent years have proved to her that life just gets more and more absurd and one needs to pick one's battles.

[txhorns79]

Judge Wackner was downright frightening when Marissa called out his potential impartiality.     

I also loved the callback to Diane's supposed lesbianism from The Good Wife, and the hilarity of Diane and Liz leaning into their "relationship" to try and get a juror bounced.  Also, Christine Baranski has the best laugh.   

I do think a fake court would have problems sending people to actual prison, even if it was a private prison.  I don't know that there is any enforceable arbitration agreement that would allow for that given the interests at hand. 

[gesundheit]

On 8/6/2021 at 8:03 PM, Joimiaroxeu said:

OMG, now that's taking a joke over the edge once you're signing HR documents making a fake relationship official. Eventually  they probably will have to claim they're bisexual. Or Liz could get her boyfriend to release an R-rated sex tape of them together.

Yeah, I was confused about why they would sign those documents. First I was confused that HR would be bringing anything like that to name partners anyway (sadly they would not typically be subject to the same HR policies that other staff would be), but then I remembered there's a parent firm, so they are subject to the parent firm's policies. Or something. But then why sign a document they know to be a lie? Why are they faking a relationship at work? I'm not sure how that gets them anything. I understood why they did that with the judge, but that was a situational strategy.

I love Boss Diane but I don't see how she can really stay managing partner at this point. If she's not a name partner but still partner, I fail to see how it would have the impact implied on her clients (if she did what was asked and stayed an equity partner, it doesn't make sense that her clients wouldn't see her regularly anymore), so I'm not sure why they're presenting it the way they are. I hope the lighthearted stuff with Liz this week doesn't put a pin in that story for too long.

[txhorns79]

2 hours ago, gesundheit said:

 

I love Boss Diane but I don't see how she can really stay managing partner at this point. If she's not a name partner but still partner, I fail to see how it would have the impact implied on her clients (if she did what was asked and stayed an equity partner, it doesn't make sense that her clients wouldn't see her regularly anymore), so I'm not sure why they're presenting it the way they are. I hope the lighthearted stuff with Liz this week doesn't put a pin in that story for too long.

I was a little surprised when Liz claimed Barbara Kolstad left or felt forced out because of Diane.  Not that the character ever made a big splash, but the last thing I recall about her was her jumping at a job Diane had been offered(?), never to be seen again.

[Roseanna]

12 hours ago, Broderbits said:

Like Diane would give 2 figs what Fake Tucker Carlson thought about her marriage!

I didn't speak of Diane but an ordinary person IRL. Or are people in US just accustomed that they are lied about?

[Broderbits]

8 hours ago, Roseanna said:

I didn't speak of Diane but an ordinary person IRL.

An ordinary person IRL probably wouldn't have their marriage discussed on tv.

[marny]

8 hours ago, Roseanna said:

I didn't speak of Diane but an ordinary person IRL. Or are people in US just accustomed that they are lied about?

Most smart people know better than to take Fox News seriously about stuff like that (which the channel on The Good Fight is obviously supposed to be). I couldn’t imagine caring if they claimed my marriage was a sham. 

[gesundheit]

On 8/8/2021 at 10:45 AM, marny said:

Most smart people know better than to take Fox News seriously about stuff like that (which the channel on The Good Fight is obviously supposed to be). I couldn’t imagine caring if they claimed my marriage was a sham. 

I feel like it would bother her husband a lot more than it does her. It could actually impact his professional standing.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I was very confused with all of the machinations of Wackner's Court and Wayne Brady and the television show and Joey Battle?
I don't remember Wackner's Court being a television show before this episode.  Had it ever been before?
Could somebody give me a simple breakdown explaining what was going on there and why Judge Wackner got so angry with Marissa?

Thank you

[txhorns79]

1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I don't remember Wackner's Court being a television show before this episode.  Had it ever been before?

I think, maybe two episodes, it was discussed that there had been interest in turning his courtroom into a television show, and Wayne Brady wanted to produce it.  I think what we saw this episode was a result of that.

I thought Wackner got so angry with Marissa because she was questioning his integrity. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

29 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

I think, maybe two episodes, it was discussed that there had been interest in turning his courtroom into a television show, and Wayne Brady wanted to produce it.  I think what we saw this episode was a result of that.

I thought Wackner got so angry with Marissa because she was questioning his integrity. 

Thank you - the first paragraph I totally didn't catch from earlier.

The second thing you say I get, but it's the nuances that are lost for me.  I guess Marissa is saying that Wackner, Wayne Brady, and (The Money Guy) all conspired to have Joey Battle on this courtroom show and to rehab his image, so Marissa was accusing of Wackner already pre-deciding that Joey Battle would get off, I guess.  Because I had no idea of the earlier Wayne Brady subplot, his anger didn't have the intended impact on me at the time!

Edited August 10, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[ifionlyknew]

8 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I guess Marissa is saying that Wackner, Wayne Brady, and (The Money Guy) all conspired to have Joey Battle on this courtroom show and to rehab his image, so Marissa was accusing of Wackner already pre-deciding that Joey Battle would get off, I guess.  Because I had no idea of the earlier Wayne Brady subplot, his anger didn't have the intended impact on me at the time!

I don't know if Wackner was supposed to have been in on the plan to rehab Joey Battle's reputation or if Wayne Brady and not a Koch brother thought he would just go along with it once he started seeing the evidence.  I'm totally loving this alternative court but the sentencing people to a private prison I thought was a step too far. But then I remembered contracts states had with private prisons to fill up cells no matter what and I thought yep this sounds about right.

 

[txhorns79]

2 hours ago, ifionlyknew said:

I'm totally loving this alternative court but the sentencing people to a private prison I thought was a step too far. But then I remembered contracts states had with private prisons to fill up cells no matter what and I thought yep this sounds about right.

I think realistically, people can sign contracts agreeing to be bound by Wackner's rulings up to a point.  I don't know that you can really contract to allow Wackner to detain you in a prison, particularly based on a standard that would never hold up in a real criminal court.   

[ferjy]

I agree, great episode, superbly acted. Liz and Diane going along with being lesbians to their advantage was hilarious. Sidling up to each other,  “Don’t you think, Darling?” 😄 I liked their reaction progression watching the newscast... surprise, disbelief, hilarity. I love the laugh too. I was hoping for it when they showed the Fox newscast. Christine Baranski didn’t disappoint.

 

[legxleg]

I think the show is doing a good job of showing Wackner's court going from funny to disturbing - the scene last ep with the loan shark guys beating up that one guy to get him to follow the ruling, and now jail. I don't think you can actually sign a contract promising to obey literally any penalty Wackner came up with. What if Wackner decided someone deserved the death penalty? There are some things just not covered by an arbitration agreement, and I'm very curious to see when someone really tells him no. Judging by the way Wackner went from charming to scary in like 30 seconds when Marissa pushed too hard (even if he did apologize later), I'm thinking things could get bad. 

Edited August 11, 2021 by legxleg

[Roseanna]

12 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I think realistically, people can sign contracts agreeing to be bound by Wackner's rulings up to a point.  I don't know that you can really contract to allow Wackner to detain you in a prison, particularly based on a standard that would never hold up in a real criminal court.   

 

5 hours ago, legxleg said:

I think the show is doing a good job of showing Wackner's court going from funny to disturbing - the scene last ep with the loan shark guys beating up that one guy to get him to follow the ruling, and now jail. I don't think you can actually sign a contract promising to obey literally any penalty Wackner came up with. What if Wackner decided someone deserved the death penalty? There are some things just not covered by an arbitration agreement, and I'm very curious to see when someone really tells him no. Judging by the way Wackner went from charming to scary in like 30 seconds when Marissa pushed too hard (even if he did apologize later), I'm thinking things could get bad. 

Yes, "justice" Warnick could be sentenced for abduction in the legal court.  

On the other hand, these legal courts can no longer give justice.

[ifionlyknew]

12 hours ago, legxleg said:

I think the show is doing a good job of showing Wackner's court going from funny to disturbing

Yes. It's all fun and games until someone gets hurt.

6 hours ago, Roseanna said:

On the other hand, these legal courts can no longer give justice.

My prediction is Wackner's court turns into everything he hated about real courts. What is that saying? Absolute power corrupts absolutely?

[Milburn Stone]

On 8/7/2021 at 11:30 PM, txhorns79 said:

I was a little surprised when Liz claimed Barbara Kolstad left or felt forced out because of Diane.  Not that the character ever made a big splash, but the last thing I recall about her was her jumping at a job Diane had been offered(?), never to be seen again.

Yeah, that seemed off to anyone who's been watching since S1 of TGF, but then I realized that Liz wasn't around in S1, so it's very possible she doesn't know the real story! She would have heard second- and third-hand versions of it, maybe including versions from associates who also weren't there. Diane's outrage at the suggestion was justified. I came away thinking not that the show wants to revise history, but rather to dramatize how false stories that conveniently "fit a narrative" can become accepted as true.

Edited August 11, 2021 by Milburn Stone

[Roseanna]

5 hours ago, ifionlyknew said:

My prediction is Wackner's court turns into everything he hated about real courts. What is that saying? Absolute power corrupts absolutely?

Luckily Warned hasn't absolute power. On the contrary, he could be prosecuted in the legal court. His "court" is funny but he has taken powers that only a state can have and give its legal authorities.

[Hanahope]

I don't know that any "arbitration" agreement could include a penalty of imprisonment, even for a relatively short period of time, and be enforced.  the comic should have balked at that.

the whole courtroom scene/story line seems so farfetched and I'm a little disgusted that Liz and Diane would tell an actual lie to the Judge in order to benefit their case.  Honestly, they should have questioned the cop a lot more, and not even finished that day, so that when he got killed, the judge would have no choice but to call a mistrial because the plaintiff didn't get adequate opportunity to fully cross-examine.  

[gesundheit]

6 hours ago, Hanahope said:

the whole courtroom scene/story line seems so farfetched and I'm a little disgusted that Liz and Diane would tell an actual lie to the Judge in order to benefit their case.  

Yeah, I really thought what they were going to do was let the implication linger, but instead they just flat out lied. It was entertaining but the ethics made me cringe.

[Roseanna]

7 hours ago, Hanahope said:

I don't know that any "arbitration" agreement could include a penalty of imprisonment, even for a relatively short period of time, and be enforced.  the comic should have balked at that.

If a person promised that he/she would agree with an "imprisonment" ordered by an "institution" without legal authority, that "consent" would be illegal. It's kidnapping and robbing of liberty. 

[statsgirl]

 

On 8/11/2021 at 8:49 AM, ifionlyknew said:

. What is that saying? Absolute power corrupts absolutely?

"Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men..."

John Dahlberg-Acton, 1st Baron Acton in a letter to an Anglican bishop 1887.

Although my generation thinks that it was James T. Kirk.

Wackner got very scary very fast. An actual prison was way too far.

[marinw]

Not specific to this episode but I love the theme music. It suonds old but it is a modern composition that sounds like it's done by a full orchestra, a rarity for TV. Kind of like the original 1978 Battlestar Galactica. The TGF theme helps make the opening credits so elegant

 

Edited August 14, 2021 by marinw

[love2lovebadtv]

On 8/7/2021 at 10:18 PM, gesundheit said:

Yeah, I was confused about why they would sign those documents. First I was confused that HR would be bringing anything like that to name partners anyway (sadly they would not typically be subject to the same HR policies that other staff would be), but then I remembered there's a parent firm, so they are subject to the parent firm's policies. Or something. But then why sign a document they know to be a lie? Why are they faking a relationship at work? I'm not sure how that gets them anything. I understood why they did that with the judge, but that was a situational strategy.

I love Boss Diane but I don't see how she can really stay managing partner at this point. If she's not a name partner but still partner, I fail to see how it would have the impact implied on her clients (if she did what was asked and stayed an equity partner, it doesn't make sense that her clients wouldn't see her regularly anymore), so I'm not sure why they're presenting it the way they are. I hope the lighthearted stuff with Liz this week doesn't put a pin in that story for too long.

I wasn't so confused about why they signed the documents as name partners. Rather, I was wondering where was the conversation: "It's come to our attention that their may be a romantic relationship..." 

HR just creates legal documents based on FOX news and doesn't ask questions? 

On 8/8/2021 at 12:30 AM, txhorns79 said:

I was a little surprised when Liz claimed Barbara Kolstad left or felt forced out because of Diane.  Not that the character ever made a big splash, but the last thing I recall about her was her jumping at a job Diane had been offered(?), never to be seen again.

What happened to that character? I was curious to see more of her but she disappeared with only a small mention. Interesting that the show is bringing her up now. 

On 8/8/2021 at 2:33 AM, Roseanna said:

I didn't speak of Diane but an ordinary person IRL. Or are people in US just accustomed that they are lied about?

It's not a US thing. It's more of a person-likely-to-be-in-the-news thing. That can happen anywhere. The majority of Americans aren't mentioned in the news, let alone considered significant enough to be lied about. 

[txhorns79]

7 minutes ago, love2lovebadtv said:

What happened to that character? I was curious to see more of her but she disappeared with only a small mention. Interesting that the show is bringing her up now. 

Her last episode was in the second season premiere.  Diane was offered a partner position at the firm of the woman who declined to hire Diane in the first season.  While Diane was considering, Barbara met with the woman and took the job.

[love2lovebadtv]

36 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

Her last episode was in the second season premiere.  Diane was offered a partner position at the firm of the woman who declined to hire Diane in the first season.  While Diane was considering, Barbara met with the woman and took the job.

I may need to re-watch.

Do you know why the actress left the show? I love Audra McDonald but I was curious about that character. I remember her being annoyed with the way things were going. 

[marinw]

Liz and Diane signing those documents is going to come back to bite them on the butt. They will be expected to seen in public together at official events or something. Poor Kurt. who may have to tell his NRA collueges that he's in an open marriage or something. I see this as an extremley cynical move by Diane. Perhaps she thinks that being in a same-sex relationship with a Woman of Colour will deflect criticism from her being a white named partner in an African-American Firm. Ack. One of the thing I love and respect about TGF is how skillfuilly it handles these fraught subjects.

I wonder why Diane is so desprete to hang onto her named partnership. Stuburness? Pride? The RGB Dream?Judgeing from her apartment and her wardrobe, her finicial issues were resolved long ago. With her repuation she could probably find a partnership at another firm, unless she is worried about ageism. (CB is 69, not sure about Diane's age). 

Also, I never get tired of CB laughing.

Edited August 15, 2021 by marinw

[ferjy]

On 8/11/2021 at 11:28 PM, gesundheit said:

It was entertaining but the ethics made me cringe.

Since when are lawyers ethical? 😛 Yeah, I think it was thrown in for the humour. 

 

[maddie965]

I hated this episode so much it almost made me give up the show.  Fake court has gone too far. The cancel thing was boring. Mandy's character was obnoxious - and I love Mandy! I stay for Christine. Always.

Edited September 25, 2021 by maddie965

[lidarose9]

I am catching up with episodes I missed when they came out and just have to say... I hope they fired the people doing Diane's hair, makeup and clothing for this season. Her hair looks yellowish and her foundation makeup looks powdery and too tan. She has always worn such gorgeous suits, often with beautiful coordinated necklaces, but this season she's in a lot of monochrome colors with weird geometric shapes that look vintage 1980s and vaguely J.C. Penney. Worst of all is the lipstick. Some horrid wine or cranberry color. The overall effect is to age her 10 years. I was always impressed by the way this show could make the women super-stylish and slightly sexy while still looking professional. Not here.

And at home the decor in her bedroom/sitting room is that mauve I associate with 1990s. Star Trek Next Gen.

Also I am really tired of the endless arguing. Every discussion immediately breaks down into pointless arguing. Last season leaned heavily on this, obviously meant to reflect the unfortunate dynamic paralyzing public dialog these days. Everybody wants to argue, nothing ever gets resolved, we cut to a new scene and the story moves on. We see this over and over. I find I can't remember how storylines wrap up because many of them don't -- they just peter out. I see enough of this crap in real life, don't find it entertaining. I am currently only hate watching the rest of this show. Although I love the Mandy Patinkin storyline.