Reservation Dogs - General Discussion

[MisterGlass]

It was a touching shot near the end in the hospital corridor with the kids and Irene outside Fixico's room.

I enjoyed the after credits scene with Big showing footage of the original chip truck robbery.  And Big uses the old fashioned windows theme on his laptop.

[AngieBee1]

I really thought these were the final two episodes and felt it would still be perfect without a cincher.  Glad there are still two episodes left. 

Glad Kenny Boy (Uncle KK) received his validation. 

All this talk about whether Bear is snagging. He and Jackie are definitely snagging or will be. 

[Emily Thrace]

On 8/18/2023 at 2:31 PM, Nashville said:

100% agreement; “benevolence” of any sort - if it existed - did so on a purely individual level, with specific caretakers.  By the very nature of their mission the boarding schools as an institution were bureaucratically disinterested at best, and actively malevolent at worst - attitudes generally reflected by the staff.

 I am indigenous  and know a few survivors and the few stories of benevolent staff I have heard usually ended with them being punished or moved on away from the kids. Staff in these places were told these children were wild and required strong discipline, kindness was considered counter productive. Some groups have actually suggested the Catholic Church moved pedophile priests and problematic nuns into the residential school system because no one there was allowed to complain about it.

 

On 8/18/2023 at 5:47 PM, aghst said:

On this question of assimilation, I wondered how typical the everyday life depicted in the show was of everyday life experienced by Native Americans.

So if there was a large population who didn't live on reservations, perhaps they were integrated into other cities, there would be a lot of assimilation.

For instance, do these kids speak any of the NA languages or have they mainly been raised and educated in English and the school curriculum is similar to other kids their age in nearby towns -- putting aside the quality of the education but whether the curriculum is set by counties or state bodies.

 

Or is it more typical that people who live in reservations most of their lives are segregated, have different educational experiences, are cut off from a lot of employment opportunities -- beyond discrimination, like if you have a reservations zip code, are you automatically eliminated from consideration for jobs -- or even something as basic as access to services that people outside the reservations have, like cable TV, Internet, etc.?

 

I think Pallida covered the idea that Native Americans are not monolith but I was thinking you might appreciate a few notes from an indigenous perspective. Segregation is definitely a side affect of the reserve system. It's helped preserve our culture but it also made it harder to build up our communities. A lot of reserves are isolated and underserviced. (my Uncle just got WIFI last year for example). Discrimination is common, I myself have missed out on a job when the interviewer realized I am Native.

Reservation Dogs is portrays the Rez is fairly typical.  It does vary though my reserve has more newer houses for example and there are reserves that have investments worth billions. There are also reserves that are poorer where housing is extremely dilapidated and overcrowded. Like other racial groups Native Americans are a sub-culture we have our own commanlities like rez dogs that are hard to explain to outsiders. We also have our own spirituality and culture which differ between groups and tribes. We are not the Amish we don't reject the modern world we often embrace it.  While the show pokes fun at it Native Rap is a growing genre that increasingly recognized. We also produce artists and musicians of all genres and mediums. We are not a relic we are a living breathing society.

Sorry for the long post but I felt like the discussion needed an indigenous voice.

[nachomama]

I love the heist plan.  I love that it was unnecessary. I had not initially put together that Maximus was the lost brother.  I’m glad it tied together because I’ve also been feeling that this season is a lot of bottle episodes. It’s great to get to know cheese on his own  or bears journey but I like the group. And I loved that every single element of their plan was so half assed. 
I love that Kenny boy is the dude from jury duty. I kept trying to place him

I love snagging. 

[eejm]

Was Maximus’ explanation of the cycle of going off his medication, seeing things/writing letters (to the librarian!), going to the hospital, etc., every few months a good indication that he is likely schizophrenic?  I was thinking of his alien encounter and the fact that the onset of schizophrenia is often in the late teens/early 20s.  Maybe it explains his odd hatred of Fixico that his friends didn’t understand as well?

[Nashville]

2 hours ago, eejm said:

Was Maximus’ explanation of the cycle of going off his medication, seeing things/writing letters (to the librarian!), going to the hospital, etc., every few months a good indication that he is likely schizophrenic?  I was thinking of his alien encounter and the fact that the onset of schizophrenia is often in the late teens/early 20s.  Maybe it explains his odd hatred of Fixico that his friends didn’t understand as well?

Not necessarily; going off one’s meds is not uncommon for bipolar patients as well.

[eejm]

2 hours ago, Nashville said:

Not necessarily; going off one’s meds is not uncommon for bipolar patients as well.

You know, I’d initially mentioned bipolar disorder but removed it because I didn’t know how often those with bipolar experience hallucinations.

[Nashville]

21 minutes ago, eejm said:

You know, I’d initially mentioned bipolar disorder but removed it because I didn’t know how often those with bipolar experience hallucinations.

Oh, I think Maximus is definitely schizophrenic – I just meant the going off the meds wasn’t schizophrenic-specific. 🙂

[possibilities]

I think it's hard to say what is his original issue vs the effects of a lifetime of trauma and multiple shock treatments.

[thuganomics85]

Damn!  I figured Elora's dad was going to be played by a familiar face of some kind, but Ethan Hawke?!  That seems like a pretty big get.  I wonder if he was already a fan of the show or something, and that is how that casting all came to be?  To be fair, he has been appearing on television a lot lately, so this isn't completely new territory, but this was still a surprise casting that I truly didn't see coming.

Kind of surprised that the penultimate episode was mainly a character-centric one instead of the entire ensemble, but I guess this is going to set things up for Elora not only go to college, but possibly have her biological father (and his new family) in her life going forward.  Obviously, it probably won't be smooth sailing going forward because; as he pretty much admits: no reasons or explanations; change the fact that he abandoned her and never tried to reach out despite always knowing where she was.  But I guess I can see why she might want to risk exploring this new relationship.  Although, part of me thinks it might be more because of her half-siblings instead of him, because it looked like she was already warming up to them.

Loved that they referenced Coach Bobson again from California Dreamin' in season one.

I do love that Jackie is pretty much just a Rez Dog now.  Definitely a 180 from where she was in the pilot!

Can't believe next week will be the end.  Still feels like there is a lot more to explore here.  I wonder if the episode will be longer than normal?

[nachomama]

:( omg I HAAAAAATE  Ethan hawk. It’s very irrational. I have zero reason for this. I just want to slap his stupid face. I have several irrational hates. Kevin Costner. People who just ruin absolutely anything they’re in (for me. Mhoo) 🤮 when they remade 7 samurai with Denzel Washington and Chris Pratt etc I prayed the entire time that Ethan hawk would die. Spoiler alert he didn’t die. Everybody in that movie I loved …dead.  Saving private Ryan …the dude I hate lives (not Matt Damon the other one) now it’s tainted.  

[Juneau Gal]

2 hours ago, nachomama said:

:( omg I HAAAAAATE  Ethan hawk. It’s very irrational. I have zero reason for this. I just want to slap his stupid face. I have several irrational hates. Kevin Costner. People who just ruin absolutely anything they’re in (for me. Mhoo) 🤮 when they remade 7 samurai with Denzel Washington and Chris Pratt etc I prayed the entire time that Ethan hawk would die. Spoiler alert he didn’t die. Everybody in that movie I loved …dead.  Saving private Ryan …the dude I hate lives (not Matt Damon the other one) now it’s tainted.  

I hear you! I spent the whole episode thinking to myself, “Is that that guy whose face I hate? Damn he looks old. He looks better old, his face isn’t as slappable.” 
He did a good job as Elora’s father. The episode dragged for me, though. Wouldn’t have minded the drag if it wasn’t the penultimate episode. 

[luckyroll3]

3 hours ago, nachomama said:

:( omg I HAAAAAATE  Ethan hawk. It’s very irrational. I have zero reason for this. I just want to slap his stupid face. I have several irrational hates. Kevin Costner. People who just ruin absolutely anything they’re in (for me. Mhoo) 🤮 when they remade 7 samurai with Denzel Washington and Chris Pratt etc I prayed the entire time that Ethan hawk would die. Spoiler alert he didn’t die. Everybody in that movie I loved …dead.  Saving private Ryan …the dude I hate lives (not Matt Damon the other one) now it’s tainted.  

First time hearing that someone else was prioritized over Chris Pratt to die! 😂

Ethan Hawke is one of my favorite actors. And I also loved him here. 

Glad Elora got to meet him and her siblings, and that she now has a connection in the "big city" for when she goes to college. 

I also adored the counselor! I couldn't stop laughing during that entire scene, especially while he was singing the 49 song with the hair flips!

[possibilities]

It's painful that there is only one ep left. I get that they are exploring issues that are really important and relevant to a lot of people, though. No matter what they did, it would feel like not enough, that they aren't also doing something else. Because there are not enough episodes left to do all of it.

I have some irrational hates, too, so Iaugh at the Ethan Hawke hate. He's not on my list on way or the other, but I do have the hate for Kevin Costner. What is it about that guy? <<shudder>>

I don't think I can forgive the character for not even trying at all to stay in touch. He didn't have to "take her away". He could have moved there (he could bunk with White Steve!) or he could visit. He met her mom somehow, so he obviously had enough proximity to form connections. He could also send money. He could make some kind of effort. And seeing him be so adorable with his new family is just salt in that wound. I don't know how Elora can be anything but hurt by the contrast. But I guess you just accept what is, because what else are you going to do? And if he's willing to be there now, I guess that's something? Though he should give her the freaking pick up truck, not try to sell it to her. 

Life can be shitty, though, and the more you get used to that, the less you have the energy to be outraged and the fewer tears you have to spare. Might as well take what's offered. It's still a trauma, though, even if you don't clock it as such.

How did she recognize him to follow him? Maybe she found his license plate number?

He didn't go back and pay for the coffee, either.

Why are they cancelling this show?

 

 

[peeayebee]

4 minutes ago, luckyroll3 said:

I also adored the counselor! I couldn't stop laughing during that entire scene, especially while he was singing the 49 song with the hair flips!

I loved that counselor. What a great character. I need to look him up.

Before watching this ep I saw a still of Ethan Hawke with Devery, so I was spoiled for his appearance. I'm glad I don't have an aversion to him, because I thought he was perfect here. Touching, honest, regretful... Just wonderful. The awkward dance betw the two characters and watching that change was a lovely experience. I teared up a few times.

[Nashville]

31 minutes ago, possibilities said:

Why are they cancelling this show?

They’re not - FX isn’t, anyway; the network loves Reservation Dogs, and wishes it would continue.  The decision to end the series was that of the creators, not the network.  From a Rolling Stone article, citing Sterlin Harjo:

“I always knew what the end of this story would be, I just didn’t know when it would arrive,” Harjo wrote on Instagram. “As we continued to break stories and write scripts this season, it became clear to the producers, Taika and me that the season three finale is the perfect SERIES finale.”

———-

ETA: it does occur to me, though, that Harjo’s emphasis on the word ”SERIES” in that last sentence means there might be another path this story and these characters take – in a movie, maybe?

Edited September 20, 2023 by Nashville

[Nashville]

2 hours ago, Juneau Gal said:

I hear you! I spent the whole episode thinking to myself, “Is that that guy whose face I hate? Damn he looks old. He looks better old, his face isn’t as slappable.” 

Time doesn’t appear to be treating Ethan Hawke all that well; he looks older than I do, and he’s about eight years younger than me.

But for all, I know, that may make Hawke more marketable…

[peeayebee]

I think he's wearing his age well.

[luna1122again]

1 minute ago, peeayebee said:

I think he's wearing his age well.

I think his face is weathered, and he looks every bit his age, but that he's also extremely handsome. 

[nachomama]

In the magnificent 7 Chris Pratt died exactly right. I think first. And in a stupid  manner, I think he ran straight at a Gatling gun. I wanted the Asian guy to live. He and Ethan hawke were the last 2 in the bell tower and by god I wanted to push him off. I think there’s a smugness to him and Costner and nic cage.  That I think annoys me. They can do great work ( I love raising Arizona despite my disdain for nic cage) 

I’m sad too that they chose to end rez dogs. Ever since northern exposure I seek these things out. That remind me of home since I can’t be there. 

[Constant Viewer]

I agree that it was the siblings that led to Elora participating in pizza Friday. They will probably be the reason she stays in touch.

[peeayebee]

I think it's both her dad and her siblings. She discovered that he's not a terrible person, that he acknowledges the mistakes he's made in his life but is working to be better, and he certainly seems like he's a good guy. He loves his kids. They love him. It sure looked like a happy family, and that's not just because the kids are doing all the work. 

[mytmo]

Of course I cried and was even a little bit jealous.  My dad left when I was a baby so it was a little triggering.

Frankly I never paid much attention to Ethan Hawke but was pleasantly surprised.  I think he is a lot more attractive now than his younger days.

That 49 song was everything!  My mind put in the drum automatically.

[mledawn]

I really enjoyed this episode but am torn as it's the penultimate. We're quite literally running out of time with these characters.

I thought Ethan Hawke did a great job as Rick, and his "weathered" appearance added to the character's life story. Elora now has another person (or persons, really - siblings!) to help support her next stage of life.

When Jackie asks Elora if she wants someone to go with her was a nice moment. I like how all the crew is behind her decision to attend college.

Unrelated to Rez Dogs but related to Ethan Hawke: It came out that he took a bus from NYC to Toronto so he could make TIFF (after several flights were cancelled) and he was asked if he wasn't noticed... he said no one cares about anyone else on a bus from NYC to Toronto. In the comments of the article, someone said that Ethan Hawke is the most strikingly ordinary-looking (if not flat out unattractive) person in real life, no one probably even realised!

 

[aghst]

Elora didn’t seem like she had the slightest interest in meeting her dad, even when she discovered his name a few episodes ago.

Did she just accept all these years that he was out of the picture, that he didn’t want to see her?

She didn’t seem to resent him not being around in her life, in fact may not even have confronted him if he didn’t confront her first.

She couldn’t even look at him in the face.

The timing was fortuitous though, Rick is a much better version of himself than before he became a father again.  She might have hated him growing up.

He showed her that he was a good father and wanted to be a father to her as well.

So a happy ending for Elora, she lost the only family she had known but maybe gaining a new one.

 

[aghst]

1 hour ago, peeayebee said:

I think it's both her dad and her siblings. She discovered that he's not a terrible person, that he acknowledges the mistakes he's made in his life but is working to be better, and he certainly seems like he's a good guy. He loves his kids. They love him. It sure looked like a happy family, and that's not just because the kids are doing all the work. 

I’m not a particular fan of Hawke.  I don’t even remember Dead Poets at all.

The Before movies obviously were much more recent but I don’t recall their specific convos or memorable scenes or lines.

 

I thought he was great in this episode, which was more about people connecting on the most human level.  The show is about the experience of a particular group of Native Americans but this episode was more elemental.

It reminds me a lot of the Nick Offerman episode of The Last of Us.

[nachomama]

Opposite of Ethan hawke there are people who I’d watch anything they ever do. Nick offerman is one. If they made him Eloras dad? I’d cry enough to flood Oklahoma. When Elaine from northern exposure showed up on “the last of us “ with graham Greene I squeed. 
I know it’s too late now since it’s the end of Eric Schweig is another one I love. I don’t wanna say I’m old enough to have the hots for Wes studi but among the elder men I like him most unless they got Eric schweig. Then I call dibs on the snagging. 

[peeayebee]

1 hour ago, aghst said:

It reminds me a lot of the Nick Offerman episode of The Last of Us.

OMG. I had no interest in watching The Last of Us, but I heard about this particular ep so I watched it. What a beautiful, emotional, perfect hour of television. If Offerman doesn't get an Emmy, I'll throw my shoe at the TV.

Back to Rez Dogs... I was curious who played the college counselor. The character's name is Debbie, and the actor is John Parker. They don't have any other credits on IMDB. I wonder when they came from.

[Domestic Assassin]

3 hours ago, aghst said:

Elora didn’t seem like she had the slightest interest in meeting her dad, even when she discovered his name a few episodes ago.

Did she just accept all these years that he was out of the picture, that he didn’t want to see her?

She didn’t seem to resent him not being around in her life, in fact may not even have confronted him if he didn’t confront her first.

She couldn’t even look at him in the face.

The timing was fortuitous though, Rick is a much better version of himself than before he became a father again.  She might have hated him growing up.

He showed her that he was a good father and wanted to be a father to her as well.

So a happy ending for Elora, she lost the only family she had known but maybe gaining a new one.

 

I might be wrong, but I thought Elora was under the impression that her father was the man who died in the accident with Cookie.  It seemed like she didn't just learn her father's name a few episodes ago, but that he was actually alive (and white). 

[peeayebee]

Yes, you're right. She said that to Rick in this episode.

[sistermagpie]

Whatever anybody thinks about Ethan Hawke (I'm neutral to positive since he's done a lot of interesting work), he was a really good choice to play this guy. Especially since you can imagine douchey Reality Bites-era EH angsting and fighting over Cookie back in the day.

I totally bought the way these two related. Elora didn't grow up resenting this guy, but didn't know how she felt about him now, so she could be curious while still keeping a protective distance. And he wasn't a bad guy, but when Mabel and Cookie made it easy to walk away, he took it. He knows he was cowardly and weak...but he isn't constitutionally so. He's safe. She's got Bear's father and Bear's relationship with his father (who's Native) to compare hers to.

ETA: It is, however, kind of strange to listen to Rick say how young he was when Elora was born when she's about 18, right? And he's in his 50s. You were not young, my dude.

Edited September 21, 2023 by sistermagpie

[aghst]

Well EH is 52-53 but maybe his character is suppose to be in his mid 40s at the most.

I don't know that the character would have worked better with a relatively unknown actor.

I guess we bring some preconceptions because of EH's previous roles and maybe what we know of his personal life.

 

[SoMuchTV]

Lol I think I missed a generation or two of movies. I thought Elora’s dad looked like someone I should recognize, and I recognized his name when I saw it here, but I couldn’t have named a single thing I saw him in. Only thing I could think of was, isn’t he the dad of that one girl in Stranger Things?

But I did think he was a good fit for the role. 

Edited September 21, 2023 by SoMuchTV

[ProudMary]

9 minutes ago, SoMuchTV said:

Only thing I could think of was, isn’t he the dad of that one girl in Stranger Things?

Yes, Maya Hawke is his daughter. 

If, by chance, you watched Marvel's Moon Knight on Disney Plus, EH played the villain, Harrow.

[nachomama]

I enjoy maya hawke so it’s contained to her dad. Again I have no idea what it is that bugs me so bad about him. 
 

I think sister magpie just called me old! 😩 Ethan hawke is older than me so neener. 

[sistermagpie]

2 hours ago, nachomama said:

I think sister magpie just called me old! 😩 Ethan hawke is older than me so neener. 

Not at all! Just that Rick was stressing how young he and Cookie were--too young to have a child. Iirc, Cookie said she'd be 21 or 22 forever. Eighteen years ago Ethan Hawke was 34. Nobody would say that was too young to be a father! (Though I guess there are some very immature 34-year-olds out there.)

Edited September 22, 2023 by sistermagpie

[Domestic Assassin]

30 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Not at all! Just that Rick was stressing how young he and Cookie were--too young to have a child. Iirc, Cookie said she'd be 21 or 22 forever. Eighteen years ago Ethan Hawke was 34. Nobody would say that was too young to be a father! (Though I guess there are some very immature 34-year-olds out there.)

I was thinking that (like Devery Jacobs) Ethan Hawke was playing a character a decade or so younger than himself. Maybe because the thought of 30-something Rick dating a teenage Cookie adds a whole other layer of ick that I don't think was intended. Or maybe that's just me.

I also never really liked Ethan Hawke before. Don't remember why. But I was really impressed with him here.

Edited September 22, 2023 by Domestic Assassin

[sistermagpie]

12 minutes ago, Domestic Assassin said:

I was thinking that (like Devery Jacobs) Ethan Hawke was playing a character a decade or so younger than himself. Maybe because the thought of 30-something Rick dating a teenage Cookie adds a whole other layer of ick that I don't think was intended. Or maybe that's just me.

I also never really liked Ethan Hawke before. Don't remember why. But I was really impressed with him here.

I agree--I think he was meant to be at most a few years older than Cookie, but maybe the same age. Him being actually in his 30s would change the whole story and dynamic. If he seems older it's meant to be because of being a shit ass for all those years! It just takes a minute with him being so visible as a young man in the 90s. Before Sunrise is long enough ago to have 2 10-year sequels.

Edited September 22, 2023 by sistermagpie

[MisterGlass]

I also agree with the idea that Rick was supposed to be about Cookie's age, and Ethan Hawke is playing younger.  That's true of a few actors on the show who are playing characters in Cookie's age group.

Rick wasn't a great guy, knows it, and is trying to be a decent guy now.  I thought Ethan Hawke played the part very well, and Devery Jacobs was also on point.  There were a lot of little nods to his ongoing character flaws.  He said originally she could decide what story they would tell the younger kids, and instead he burst out with the news that she was their sister.

[peeayebee]

I wouldn't call that a flaw. He just got so excited he forgot to stay mum. I thought it was funny, and it looked like Elora didn't mind.

[luna1122again]

Ages are very flexible on this show--the Dazed and Confused episode alone was crazy in that regard, none of those people were teenagers in 1976--so I can handwave Ethan being too old to play Rick. Also, because I love him, and think he's just a brilliant actor. I've long loved him for the "Before" series...some of the best cinema ever made...and I loved him as the petulant, hot slacker in "Reality Bites". But he's also been just excellent in more recent films like "First Reformed" and "Juliet, Naked". It makes me sad (and feel really effing old) that some people only know because of Maya (who I also love). Oh well. 

Anyway...he was SO GOOD here. He can play that kind of nervy, hyper, loquacious guy pretty much better than anyone, and he and Devery played off one another so well. I could watch an entire movie about this relationship. 

I cannot believe we only have one episode left. I'm so sad. 

[peeayebee]

This has been such a great season. Talk about going out on a high. But yes, still sad.

Re Ethan Hawke, I've heard he's outstanding in The Good Lord Bird. Unfortunately, it's not available on any of the streaming services I subscribe to, and I'm not ready to pay per ep. I wonder if our library has it...?

ETA: Oooo! It is! DVD. Now I have to find where our DVD player is stashed away.

Edited September 22, 2023 by peeayebee

[bilgistic]

I have a visceral dislike of Ethan Hawke since he cheated on Uma Thurman. Imagine being married to one of the most stunning and accomplished actors and then cheating on her. He's married to the nanny who he "didn't start a relationship with when she was our nanny."🫡

This episode hurt because my parents split when I was five. My father is a deadbeat, but went on to have another child with his second (now-ex-) wife, and he dotes on her. I don't like the "redeeming" storyline because Rick didn't seek out Elora and try to make amends; she looked for him because of needing paperwork. That's all just me projecting.🙃

[mledawn]

Devery Jacobs wrote this episode, which adds a nice layer.

[sistermagpie]

2 hours ago, peeayebee said:

This has been such a great season. Talk about going out on a high. But yes, still sad.

Re Ethan Hawke, I've heard he's outstanding in The Good Lord Bird. Unfortunately, it's not available on any of the streaming services I subscribe to, and I'm not ready to pay per ep. I wonder if our library has it...?

ETA: Oooo! It is! DVD. Now I have to find where our DVD player is stashed away.

He is. You're in for a treat--he's wack-a-doodle in it, but totally compelling.

1 hour ago, bilgistic said:

This episode hurt because my parents split when I was five. My father is a deadbeat, but went on to have another child with his second (now-ex-) wife, and he dotes on her. I don't like the "redeeming" storyline because Rick didn't seek out Elora and try to make amends; she looked for him because of needing paperwork. That's all just me projecting.🙃

Wanted to also shout out to Jacobs for writing the episode--it seems like she was really committed to making the situation indecisive. Like I think the show was underlining the fact that he didn't seek her out and this wasn't really a redemption, but at the same time on Elora's side she didn't grow up thinking he'd abandoned her, which added yet another unique perspective. 

I also loved the detail of him proudly saying he came from a line of Quakers because I get what that meant to him and how it was nothing to her. 

[AngieBee1]

Another beautiful episode.  And as a fan of Ethan Hawke in "The Good Lord Bird", I had zero doubts that he could take this guest role and do so much with it. 

I love that meeting Rick wasn't used as completion for Elora. Her life was complete already and she let him know that in no uncertain terms.  He wasn't the missing piece of a puzzle to bring her wholeness.  If she does continue to have a relationship with him and her half-siblings it's not because she's in *need*,  it's because she wants to.

Also like the fact that Rick didn't play the card as if he didn't have any role in not seeking her out.   When she asked him if he was relieved to not have to raise her, he could have kept up his initial denial, but he came clean. He wasn't ready to be a father then; but life has a way of making you step up. Now look at him - his wife is in rehab and he needed to be present for their children. 

[nachomama]

I do think ethan hawke did a good job. And it kinda helps that I was disinclined to like him. We are all elora approaching this situation and she went into it defensive because he was unknown. Him being bad and awkward at fatherhood was kinda expected. 
Although I wanna know how she went about stalking him because she didn’t enter the hardware store after him (that I could tell) she couldn’t have just known he’d be there. Has she been following him for days? And as a house painter all he got was 2 cans of spray paint? Also as an elder, ahem, I remember when Willow came out and even if he was a film nerd I find it hard to believe he named her. There was no dude on this planet at that time that I could have convinced to go see that movie. I read the book. I awaited the movie. Dudes didn’t. Spoiler alert I don’t love Val Kilmer either. Walton goggins is another irrational hate.

[Ilovepie]

3 hours ago, nachomama said:

I do think ethan hawke did a good job. And it kinda helps that I was disinclined to like him. We are all elora approaching this situation and she went into it defensive because he was unknown. Him being bad and awkward at fatherhood was kinda expected. 
Although I wanna know how she went about stalking him because she didn’t enter the hardware store after him (that I could tell) she couldn’t have just known he’d be there. Has she been following him for days? And as a house painter all he got was 2 cans of spray paint? Also as an elder, ahem, I remember when Willow came out and even if he was a film nerd I find it hard to believe he named her. There was no dude on this planet at that time that I could have convinced to go see that movie. I read the book. I awaited the movie. Dudes didn’t. Spoiler alert I don’t love Val Kilmer either. Walton goggins is another irrational hate.

I know lots of "dudes" who liked Willow - saw it in the theater in a mixed group when it came out and my husband who is a couple years older than me loved it too. Val Kilmer was huge in the late eighties after Top Gun so that was the guy draw. I could totally see a young dumb guy that age thinking Elora Danon is a cool name for a baby girl. The problem is more that Elora is what - 18-ish? That movie came out almost twenty years before she was born - so that is more a problem. If he was in his early twenties when Elora was born, that movie would have come out when he was a young kid.

I love Ethan Hawke - reality bites is such a defining movie of my college years. I liked that he wasn't bad or good - he's an ok guy who has made bad choices and has regrets. Like a lot of people. And I like that Elora wasn't mad or mean but it was hard to hear her say "all I need from you fits on that piece of paper".  I am glad she went and met the kids. She is all alone in many ways and having some family is good for her.

[peeayebee]

50 minutes ago, Ilovepie said:

The problem is more that Elora is what - 18-ish? That movie came out almost twenty years before she was born - so that is more a problem.

I don't have a problem with this at all. Rick could have seen Willow way before she was born or many times before she was born, but the main thing is that the character's name stuck with him. 

As far as Elora tracking him down, I'm not sure. How much info did she have about him other than his name? A google search for "Rick Miller" would yield too many results. But let's say she did find where he lived, I guess she could have waited outside his house and then followed him wherever he drove to, unsure when and how she would approach him. But when we see them back at his house, it sure looks like she'd never been there before.

I suppose we're just supposed to hand wave this away. When Elora says to the counselor that she doesn't know where to start, he brushes that off with "Grandfather Google," like that answers that!

[SoMuchTV]

3 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

As far as Elora tracking him down, I'm not sure. How much info did she have about him other than his name? A google search for "Rick Miller" would yield too many results. But let's say she did find where he lived, I guess she could have waited outside his house and then followed him wherever he drove to, unsure when and how she would approach him. But when we see them back at his house, it sure looks like she'd never been there before.

Didn't he have his name or his business name on his truck?  Maybe his business has enough of an online presence that she could figure out where he would be...?  But yeah, maybe a little hand waving is helpful here.