Season 23 Live Feeds Discussion

[blixie]

So it's really clear that NO ONE amongst the hammies really knows how this will work/play out, everyone thinks someone different should win and Ky thinks no one should use it while SB is like no no it has to get used and neutralized this week so it's not available next week. It's bringing major chaos to Mr. Time is a Flat Circle logic man Kyland. It's seems like it's possible this twist may force him to nom up to FOUR people and that means Alyssa/Brit/Derek X will go up, which not only smokes out his own game but that of the CO too. This could be BB solution to outing the CO and making things more complicated for them to roll, center a race discussion.

Edited August 14, 2021 by blixie

[Nashville]

53 minutes ago, himela said:

It hasn't happened but we don't know whether someone or even all of the HGs have/had it in mind. Lets say that Frenchie who won the first HoH put up Xavier and Kyland and one of them was evicted. How would this look like? Wouldn't the community of BB Fans say that he is a racist?

Put that question to BB21 Jackson and see what answer you get.

[Lady Whistleup]

I really wonder why Azah is so willing to die on this Britini hill. It's one of the more bizarre storylines of the season.

[Brian Cronin]

1 hour ago, himela said:

It hasn't happened but we don't know whether someone or even all of the HGs have/had it in mind. Lets say that Frenchie who won the first HoH put up Xavier and Kyland and one of them was evicted. How would this look like? Wouldn't the community of BB Fans say that he is a racist?

One of the benefits of the whole concept of this show is that we see pretty much all of the conversations about the game. If one of the White HoHs felt pressured to not nominate a Black HG, it would have been mentioned by SOMEone to SOMEone. Heck, Frenchie specifically nominated two non-White people in the first week!

Just now, Lady Whistleup said:

I really wonder why Azah is so willing to die on this Britini hill. It's one of the more bizarre storylines of the season.

Teams, man, it really messes with people's heads. Look at Frank and Jenn as being best buddies in BB14! Teams do weird things to people. 

[OldWiseOne]

19 minutes ago, blixie said:

So it's really clear that NO ONE amongst the hammies really knows how this will work/play out, everyone thinks someone different should win and Ky thinks no one should use it while SB is like no no it has to get used and neutralized this week so it's not available next week. It's bringing major chaos to Mr. Time is a Flat Circle logic man Kyland. It's seems like it's possible this twist may force him to nom up to FOUR people and that means Alyssa/Brit/Derek X will go up, which not only smokes out his own game but that of the CO too. This could be BB solution to outing the CO and making things more complicated for them to roll, center a race discussion.

Ky's first renom should be the person who won the 2nd veto, knowing they will take themselves off the block, and then he can put the person he actually wants to nominate up there. And he can explain it to them that way - I'm nominating you so you'll use your veto.

[Katesus7]

52 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Isn’t the target Claire? I’m pretty sure Ky wants Claire out the most.

Apparently now Ky is considering BDing Derex.

The problem with knowing what Ky wants is that A) Ky wants different things depending on who Ky is talking to, and B) bless his heart, but no one can understand more than about 50% of what he says. And he says A LOT. 

[Lady Whistleup]

After the veto is used there is going to be a full court press from X, Alyssa, Tiffany, Hannah, Derex to put up Brit. I'm not sure Ky will withstand that pressure. 

[HighQueenEB]

12 minutes ago, OldWiseOne said:

Ky's first renom should be the person who won the 2nd veto, knowing they will take themselves off the block, and then he can put the person he actually wants to nominate up there. And he can explain it to them that way - I'm nominating you so you'll use your veto.

Except that's not how the POV works.  The veto holder is also safe from nomination.  So, basically, Ky is going to have to nominate 2 people if the veto is used and his options are pretty limited if he wants to not only keep the CO safe but also unexposed to the rest of the HGs.

[peachmangosteen]

I don’t see any scenario where both Claire and Deref would come off the block and cause Ky to have to nom 2 more people. Although it could if Britini won veto and took Claire off since Deref had the second veto he could use to take himself off. But that will not happen lol.

[blixie]

Quote

The veto holder is also safe from nomination. 

Right, this was probably definitely designed to expose the CO, I think even if it hadn't been a CO who won HoH, the way the CO would have had to argue about what to do with the non CO HOH would make their game more obvious (NOT THAT IT SHOULDN'T BE ALREADY). Of course outing the CO and the other hammies overcoming them are two different things, as I think exposure will give them even more reason not to fall apart. It should make things even more interesting to watch at least though, not that it hasn't already been a really good season. I especially love that it's happening to Kyland, I am team no bro downs no how.

[Lady Whistleup]

What I don't get is suppose the CO gets to the F6. How does Tiffany win? She's not good at competitions and she's not a #1 for anyone in the CO except for maybe Hannah. 

[HighQueenEB]

12 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

What I don't get is suppose the CO gets to the F6. How does Tiffany win? She's not good at competitions and she's not a #1 for anyone in the CO except for maybe Hannah. 

She doesn't unless she somehow comp beasts it out at F6 HOH, F5 and F4 POVs, and F3 HOH.

[Nashville]

1 hour ago, HighQueenEB said:

Except that's not how the POV works.  The veto holder is also safe from nomination. 

Correction: that’s not how the Golden PoV works - this second PoV, who knows?  There has been more than one kind of POV in the past, after all; this second PoV could have properties which we’ve never seen before.

Edited August 14, 2021 by Nashville
Clarification

[HighQueenEB]

3 minutes ago, Nashville said:

Correction: that’s not how the Golden PoV works - this second PoV, who knows?  There has been more than one kind of POV in the past, after all; this second PoV could have properties which we’ve never seen before.

True enough!  It definitely sounds like, based on some of the conversations last night, that this second POV doesn't expire until the end of the High Rollers twist.

[himela]

 

[choclatechip45]

46 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

What I don't get is suppose the CO gets to the F6. How does Tiffany win? She's not good at competitions and she's not a #1 for anyone in the CO except for maybe Hannah. 

She doesn't. The cookout is pretty bad for Tiffany's game. Since keeping Claire and Derex in would benefit her. That is one of the downsides of the cookout is that Tiffany vs Kyland or Tiffany vs X would be pretty entertaining. 

[HighQueenEB]

2 minutes ago, choclatechip45 said:

She doesn't. The cookout is pretty bad for Tiffany's game. Since keeping Claire and Derex in would benefit her. That is one of the downsides of the cookout is that Tiffany vs Kyland or Tiffany vs X would be pretty entertaining. 

Yes, that's why I can't help but think she'd be perfectly fine if Deref and Azah, or even just Deref, blew up the CO this week or next, provided she can keep Claire and Derex safe this week.

[himela]

4 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

They never say ‘these white players formed this alliance’ or talk about how the alliances are all white.

Because no alliance has formed with people saying "we are white, we need to stay together and have a white person win this season no matter what". The Cookout did exactly this and I see no way they can avoid it until the end like Julie did with Whitney and Christian.

[OldWiseOne]

1 hour ago, HighQueenEB said:

True enough!  It definitely sounds like, based on some of the conversations last night, that this second POV doesn't expire until the end of the High Rollers twist.

So if you win the second veto it keeps you from being nommed until you use it? Up to 3 weeks? I'm interested to hear Julie's explanation for all this on the show, because right now I am confused!

Quote

Because no alliance has formed with people saying "we are white, we need to stay together and have a white person win this season no matter what". The Cookout did exactly this and I see no way they can avoid it until the end like Julie did with Whitney and Christian.

But they haven't needed to band together to get a white person to win - because 99% of the time a white person does win! There have been plenty of all white alliances that have taken out all the non-whites - are they racist? There have been all male alliances that have taken out all the females - are they sexist? There have been alliances of people all under the age of 30 - are they ageist?

Edited August 14, 2021 by OldWiseOne

[peachmangosteen]

The members of the CO know that staying with the CO might not be the best choice for them individually but they are choosing to play together in order to ensure a Black person will win 'for the culture,' because a Black person has never won, because the show has cast so many racist people, etc. They feel they have a bigger purpose than just winning for themselves. I find it commendable.

9 minutes ago, OldWiseOne said:

So if you win the second veto it keeps you from being nommed until you use it? Up to 3 weeks? I'm interested to hear Julie's explanation for all this on the show, because right now I am confused!

No, I doubt it would be that. But it could be that if they won the second veto, they would be able to use it this week, next week, or the 3rd week.

But they also seem to be talking like the Veto Derby itself could happen again next week.

It sounds like perhaps each week there are 3 games in High Rollers room. Each game comes with a different prize and a different price to play and you can choose which 1 you want to play on any given week. And perhaps you can even play more than 1 depending on how much money you have. 

[HighQueenEB]

3 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

No, I doubt it would be that. But it could be that if they won the second veto, they would be able to use it this week, next week, or the 3rd week.

But they also seem to be talking like the Veto Derby itself could happen again next week.

It sounds like perhaps each week there are 3 games in High Rollers room. Each game comes with a different prize and a different price to play and you can choose which 1 you want to play on any given week. And perhaps you can even play more than 1 depending on how much money you have. 

This makes a lot of sense.  

The only thing that doesn't quite make sense with what you're suggesting is that once a power is used, it seems like it's no longer in play.  So, if the Veto Derby power doesn't get used this week, the game is still available to be played next week, but if it is used this week then the only options are the Roulette Replacement Nom and the Shuffleboard Cootie Taw.

[himela]

I don't see it being commendable that a black person only wins through a racist way. It kind of cancels the purpose.

[peachmangosteen]

7 minutes ago, HighQueenEB said:

The only thing that doesn't quite make sense with what you're suggesting is that once a power is used, it seems like it's no longer in play.  So, if the Veto Derby power doesn't get used this week, the game is still available to be played next week, but if it is used this week then the only options are the Roulette Replacement Nom and the Shuffleboard Cootie Taw.

That would make sense, I bet you're right about that.

It's all very confusing. Hopefully tomorrow's explanation on the show will make it make sense lol.

[PaperTree]

1 hour ago, himela said:

5 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

They never say ‘these white players formed this alliance’ or talk about how the alliances are all white.

Because no alliance has formed with people saying "we are white, we need to stay together and have a white person win this season no matter what".

They didn't have to say it.

[himela]

7 minutes ago, PaperTree said:

They didn't have to say it.

So you are saying that those white people were racists even if they never said "we as white people lets protect each other and let a white person win". So now that the black people do that exact thing why aren't they called racists?

[OldWiseOne]

7 minutes ago, himela said:

So you are saying that those white people were racists even if they never said "we as white people lets protect each other and let a white person win". So now that the black people do that exact thing why aren't they called racists?

But they are being called racists. For example, you keep calling them racists.

When a minority group finally has the opportunity to overcome an historical bias against them based on race (such as the casting on this show) and they take it - I don't think it's racism. Obviously you disagree.

[Lady Whistleup]

57 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

The members of the CO know that staying with the CO might not be the best choice for them individually but they are choosing to play together in order to ensure a Black person will win 'for the culture,' because a Black person has never won, because the show has cast so many racist people, etc. They feel they have a bigger purpose than just winning for themselves. I find it commendable. 

I don't find it commendable. Win that bag for your family -- that's commendable. People who throw away their chance at the money for some cause on a trashy reality tv show always are dumb because in a few months no one remembers.

And it can't be lost on anyone that the only people really pushing the CO now are the people who can win in those competitions? Ky and X basically. So sure X needs to push the CO because it's an easy ride to the 750k. 

Tiffany can't win with the CO. Her best chance is to go with someone invisible like Hannah or Claire and get rid of the Jokers + Ky + X. 

Tiffany's spoken about being a single mom and her son really needing that money. It's annoying that she's allowed X and Ky to manipulate her into doing what's best for the "culture" when she could just win out and hey, a black woman won.

[choclatechip45]

I mean there are definitely examples of black people not doing well on Big Brother because of racism like Howard, Kemi and David in BB21. 

There are other examples of black people of being voted out not because of racism Marcellas (both seasons), Lawon, Davonne (all 3 seasons), Kevin (last season and it would have been stupid for Jordan to keep him in BB11). 

Edited August 14, 2021 by choclatechip45

[Lady Whistleup]

Just now, choclatechip45 said:

I mean there are definitely examples of black people not doing well on Big Brother because of racism like Howard, Kemi and David in BB21. 

There are other examples of black people of being voted out not because of racism Marcellas (both seasons), Lawon, Davonne (all 3 seasons), Kevin (last season and it would have been stupid for Jordan to keep him in BB11). 

Omg Lawon and Marcellas are like the funniest evictions of all time.

[choclatechip45]

3 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Omg Lawon and Marcellas are like the funniest evictions of all time.

I watch both when I'm having a really bad day.

[ByaNose]

I hate cats. Just saying.

Anyway, this is a big POV along with the Powers at hand. I honestly don’t know how it’s going to play out or if I’m going to like it or not. I’ll probably need to have Taran break it down for me tomorrow & see how it’s shown on the show Sunday night. There is too much for me to understand all at once. LOL!!!

[HighQueenEB]

42 minutes ago, choclatechip45 said:

I watch both when I'm having a really bad day.

And Paul losing.  Twice.  Right?

[choclatechip45]

29 minutes ago, HighQueenEB said:

And Paul losing.  Twice.  Right?

Yes especially the second time. 

[Insensible Bob]

Watching Paul's face as he realizes he will lose that second time never gets old for me.

[HighQueenEB]

3 minutes ago, Insensible Bob said:

Watching Paul's face as he realizes he will lose that second time never gets old for me.

Every time someone posts that gif in this thread, every season, it puts a smile on my face.  It really is the gift that keeps on giving.

[blixie]

Quote

It's annoying that she's allowed X and Ky to manipulate her into doing what's best for the "culture" when she could just win out and hey, a black woman won.

I do think the extra irony of this opportunity is that the rest of the white and NBPOC this season are seemingly more educated and decent (a former contestant on RHAP pointed this out she was all they got lawyers and doctors and scientists I was a Vegas entertainer), the kind of people who in fact would not isolate them, who would be their allies in any other season of BB. The house targeted the crappiest of them: Brent, and Sandy Hook Is a Lie Whitney, I won't call out Travis because we don't know what he was like, and Frenchie's actual noms belied his desire to buck the white man power trend of seasons past. That they aren't up against trash ass people like the Chill Towns and Cody's of the world makes it harder for them to keep that focus and obviously as Tiff/X discussed worry how it will read, but eh fuck that. 

So yes I think X, Ky, Tiffany, or Hannah could very easily in fact win this season W/O the F6 set in stone strategy, and I agree that Ky/X are exceedingly comfortable with this because they know women will never be given the same evaluation against a guy, the girls will be held to account for being snakes/rats for manipulating and lying (or in Azah's case discounted for NOT lying/manipulating enough), while they are praised and credited for the same behavior.  I hope I'm proven wrong, I hope the six get there and then when/if it's any of  Tiff/Hanna/Azah directly opposite Ky/X /Derek the jury won't fall prey to those blind spots. AKA they will see Tiff ran this shit and managed her own game AND served a ethos bigger than the game and give her the win.

[choclatechip45]

16 minutes ago, blixie said:

I do think the extra irony of this opportunity is that the rest of the white and NBPOC this season are seemingly more educated and decent (a former contestant on RHAP pointed this out she was all they got lawyers and doctors and scientists I was a Vegas entertainer), the kind of people who in fact would not isolate them, who would be their allies in any other season of BB. The house targeted the crappiest of them: Brent, and Sandy Hook Is a Lie Whitney, I won't call out Travis because we don't know what he was like, and Frenchie's actual noms belied his desire to buck the white man power trend of seasons past. That they aren't up against trash ass people like the Chill Towns and Cody's of the world makes it harder for them to keep that focus and obviously as Tiff/X discussed worry how it will read, but eh fuck that. 

So yes I think X, Ky, Tiffany, or Hannah could very easily in fact win this season W/O the F6 set in stone strategy, and I agree that Ky/X are exceedingly comfortable with this because they know women will never be given the same evaluation against a guy, the girls will be held to account for being snakes/rats for manipulating and lying (or in Azah's case discounted for NOT lying/manipulating enough), while they are praised and credited for the same behavior.  I hope I'm proven wrong, I hope the six get there and then when/if it's any of  Tiff/Hanna/Azah directly opposite Ky/X /Derek the jury won't fall prey to those blind spots. AKA they will see Tiff ran this shit and managed her own game AND served a ethos bigger than the game and give her the win.

Funny since 1/2 of chilltown was an actual doctor. No one on this season is a doctor to my knowledge. 

[HighQueenEB]

12 minutes ago, blixie said:

So yes I think X, Ky, Tiffany, or Hannah could very easily in fact win this season W/O the F6 set in stone strategy, and I agree that Ky/X are exceedingly comfortable with this because they know women will never be given the same evaluation against a guy, the girls will be held to account for being snakes/rats for manipulating and lying (or in Azah's case discounted for NOT lying/manipulating enough), while they are praised and credited for the same behavior.  I hope I'm proven wrong, I hope the six get there and then when/if it's any of  Tiff/Hanna/Azah directly opposite Ky/X /Derek the jury won't fall prey to those blind spots. AKA they will see Tiff ran this shit and managed her own game AND served a ethos bigger than the game and give her the win.

I actually think that X has been pretty under the radar with his game and hasn't really been lying and manipulating much.  It's fair to say that Alyssa controlled Christian's HOH as much as X did.  I think X probably beats Tiff in a X/Tiff F2 but that's because of the inherent chauvinism of this show - Azah's got a crush on X, Deref can't stand Tiff, and Ky and Alyssa are likely X votes, and I could see SB (thanks, Ky) and Britini (thanks, Azah & Deref) voting for X too.

Ky is playing a more dangerous game than Tiff, IMO.  I think everyone can see Tiff's hand at play in some of these moves and I don't think Hannah, Derex, Claire, Alyssa, or even SB and Britini will hold it against her the same way that Azah or Deref will.  I think that has more to do with the fact that Azah & Deref are both playing a very emotional game whereas Hannah, Derex, Claire, Alyssa and probably SB & Britini will respect Tiff's game (especially if Brit is play-acting and lying her way through the past few weeks).  Ky's treachery is going to feel a lot more personal and hurtful to the likes of SB, Derex and Claire.  I don't think there's any way that we see a F2 of Ky/Tiff but I think Tiff wins in that scenario.   

[blixie]

Quote

Funny since 1/2 of chilltown was an actual doctor. 

I mean he's not an MD, he's a DO of aesthetic dermatology. Will was smart/educated which is why he y'know won, and but that is perfect example of holding a woman (Nicole) to a different stand than a man who plays the same fucking way.

 

Quote

I actually think that X has been pretty under the radar with his game and hasn't really been lying and manipulating much. 

Oh he has absolutely manipulated a ton, but he's very smooth and unlike Tiff most people don't perceive it as such. Tiff only just tripped to how dangerous he is. And Ky IMO is just still very well liked in this house, DereX, SB, Derek F, Tiff even when she's mad as hell at him, Alyssa, X, Azah they all check in with where they stand with Ky. Possibly they get angrier with him than Tiff but I doubt it. 

Edited August 15, 2021 by blixie

[HighQueenEB]

4 minutes ago, blixie said:

I mean he's not an MD, he's a DO of aesthetic dermatology. Will was smart/educated which is why he y'know won, and but that is perfect example of holding a woman (Nicole) to a different stand than a man who plays the same fucking way.

Last time I checked, anyone who has an MD, JD or PhD is a Doctor.  

[blixie]

Quote

Last time I checked, anyone who has an MD, JD or PhD is a Doctor.  

Correct Will did not earn any of those or at least didn't in S2. He is still a Doctor Of Osteopathy but generally they aren't viewed the same as MD, JD, PhD's, . 

[Lady Whistleup]

6 minutes ago, blixie said:

Correct Will did not earn any of those or at least didn't in S2. He is still a Doctor Of Osteopathy but generally they aren't viewed the same as MD, JD, PhD's, . 

Actually that's not true. My family doctor is a DO and he has all the same abilities as an MD including a residency in a hospital.

Feeds back. Alyssa won. 

[choclatechip45]

16 minutes ago, blixie said:

Correct Will did not earn any of those or at least didn't in S2. He is still a Doctor Of Osteopathy but generally they aren't viewed the same as MD, JD, PhD's, . 

Will had already graduated from Medical school by the time he was on Big Brother 2. 

[Lady Whistleup]

Occupation rarely matters in BB. Life experience does. The BB2 cast had life experiences which made them a savvier, more cutthroat cast and set the model for BB seasons. No one on BB16 had any life experiences to counteract Derrick. BB14 Britney was a stronger player than BB12 Britney because she had the life experience.

Anyway since Ky bet on Alyssa he now has a veto. Alyssa already said she's taking down Claire if Brit goes up.

[choclatechip45]

1 minute ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Occupation rarely matters in BB. Life experience does. The BB2 cast had life experiences which made them a savvier, more cutthroat cast and set the model for BB seasons. No one on BB16 had any life experiences to counteract Derrick. BB14 Britney was a stronger player than BB12 Britney because she had the life experience.

Anyway since Ky bet on Alyssa he now has a veto. Alyssa already said she's taking down Claire if Brit goes up.

Exactly. I remember during season 16 we would always talk about how if more people with life experiences had been cast Derrick wouldn't have been able to play the game so well. 

So it looks like a Britni backdoor. 

[TorProc]

So a DO is a doctor. The same as a MD, they just have additional training in OM. Both go to med school and could go to same residency. 

[Lady Whistleup]

2 minutes ago, choclatechip45 said:

Exactly. I remember during season 16 we would always talk about how if more people with life experiences had been cast Derrick wouldn't have been able to play the game so well. 

So it looks like a Britni backdoor. 

Also its not an accident that two of the very young winners (Ian and Steve) were on the spectrum. They were used to the kind of social shunning that happens so often with kids on the spectrum. The kind of shunning that happened with them would have broken younger contestants without those life experiences but it didn't bother them.

[choclatechip45]

4 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Also its not an accident that two of the very young winners (Ian and Steve) were on the spectrum. They were used to the kind of social shunning that happens so often with kids on the spectrum. The kind of shunning that happened with them would have broken younger contestants without those life experiences but it didn't bother them.

Interesting. I don't think I ever put those two things together, but it makes a lot of sense. 

[HighQueenEB]

13 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Anyway since Ky bet on Alyssa he now has a veto. Alyssa already said she's taking down Claire if Brit goes up.

I'm watching the first senior international of the figure skating season right now (one flight of men left!) but I assume that this means the feeds are back up.  

How can Alyssa be sure that Ky will do as she wants?  She could take Claire off thinking that Britini will go up and he puts up someone else instead.  I'm not sure he's stupid enough with his jury management to BD Derex that way, plus I know that Hannah and Tiff were, originally, last night, thinking that Britini needed to go this week because they don't trust that Deref/Azah can control her should she luck her way into an HOH.

[Lady Whistleup]

3 minutes ago, HighQueenEB said:

I'm watching the first senior international of the figure skating season right now (one flight of men left!) but I assume that this means the feeds are back up.  

How can Alyssa be sure that Ky will do as she wants?  She could take Claire off thinking that Britini will go up and he puts up someone else instead.  I'm not sure he's stupid enough with his jury management to BD Derex that way, plus I know that Hannah and Tiff were, originally, last night, thinking that Britini needed to go this week because they don't trust that Deref/Azah can control her should she luck her way into an HOH.

I think Alyssa doesnt really care in the sense that she knows she's safe no matter what this week. Better to roll the dice with Claire than someone she has no relationship with (Brit).

Azah is a wonderful girl but her mama bear protectiveness of Britini probably hurt Brit. Brit just took comfort with the Jokers and didn't attempt to build a relationship with anyone else.