Gymnastics

[Daisy]

9 minutes ago, ferjy said:

What streaming sites do you use, if you don't mind my asking? For the Olympics, I've only used the CBC site or app, and it's just a duplicate of the TV content. I wouldn't mind viewing some of the streaming sites.

Oh I am using Roger's Ignite. (so through my television provider, but i don't actually have a box or anything so i have to use the computer). - and then I use CBC's website as well.  

11 minutes ago, Cherpumple said:

Yeah, that's why I'm glad it's a nationally significant/famous piece of music rather than a generic Olympic one. Under the circumstances it seems like a decent compromise.

yah that is a nice compromise indeed :)

 

[ferjy]

6 minutes ago, Daisy said:

Oh I am using Roger's Ignite. (so through my television provider, but i don't actually have a box or anything so i have to use the computer). - and then I use CBC's website as well.  

Thanks. We don't have Rogers in Montreal and Bell has linked to CBC, so so much for that!

 

[DawnDavenport]

21 minutes ago, Daisy said:

It's kind of sad they can't hear their own anthem. they didn't cheat :(

But, technically Russia is not recognized as a country in the Olympics so it makes sense the Russian anthem wouldn't be played. 

The IOC pondered banning all Russian athletes here and in Sochi but they allowed exceptions for some sports where cheating isn't an issue.

[Daisy]

3 minutes ago, DawnDavenport said:

But, technically Russia is not recognized as a country in the Olympics so it makes sense the Russian anthem wouldn't be played. 

The IOC pondered banning all Russian athletes here and in Sochi but they allowed exceptions for some sports where cheating isn't an issue.

yeah that is true too. 
I wonder how long non recognition for Russia will last

[ferjy]

15 minutes ago, Daisy said:

yeah that is true too. 
I wonder how long non recognition for Russia will last

They ruled on the ban in 2019, a 2-year ban from 2020 to 2022, so it's in effect until the end of 2022. It was initially a 4-year ban but the CAS cut it down to 2.

 

Edited July 26, 2021 by ferjy

[Dots And Stripes]

7 minutes ago, ferjy said:

They ruled on the ban in 2019, a 2-year ban from 2020 to 2022, so it's in effect until the end of 2022. It was initially a 4-year ban but the CAS cut it down to 2.

 

But wasn't Russia OAR at a previous Olympics? Wasn't that part of the same ban?

[ferjy]

5 minutes ago, Dots And Stripes said:

But wasn't Russia OAR at a previous Olympics? Wasn't that part of the same ban?

No, they were under sanctions in 2018 PyeongChang Olympics, but they hadn't ruled yet. It was still under investigation. Hence the OAR (Olympic Athletes from Russia) rather than the ROC after the ruling.

 

 

Edited July 26, 2021 by ferjy

[choclatechip45]

47 minutes ago, Dots And Stripes said:

Wasn't part of this in '12 and '16 about Sam? I remember the narrative being that he was dominant in US competitions but inconsistent internationally. 

In 2012 Orozco sat his vault down and did bad on pommels and things spun out of control from there. In 2016 it was Sam's fault. 

Edited July 26, 2021 by choclatechip45

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, Dots And Stripes said:

But wasn't Russia OAR at a previous Olympics? Wasn't that part of the same ban?

Same reason but it was two separate rulings. Russia was actually briefly reinstated after the 2018 games but then it came out that they tampered data in an attempt at a cover-up. The current ban is punishment for the cover-up. 
Timeline of the Russia doping case

Edited July 26, 2021 by Guest

[ferjy]

16 minutes ago, Dani said:

Same reason but it was two separate rulings. Russia was actually briefly reinstated after the 2018 games but then it came out that they tampered data in an attempt at a cover-up. The current ban is punishment for the cover-up. 
Timeline of the Russia doping case

Thanks for that clarification. To add to that timeline, it then went to appeal, and in December 2020 CAS (Court of Arbitration for Sport) reduced the 4-year ban to 2 years. So they will still be ROC in the Beijing 2020 Winter Olympics.

 

[Lady Whistleup]

I like the MAG competitions because teams who win usually win by going 6x3. You cannot have a meltdown and win. So whoever gets on the podium I feel like those are fair results. China made some mistakes so they got bronze. Japan and Russia very close and scores reflected that. US didn't compete for a medal because they aren't deep enough in all six apparatuses.

[ShellsandCheese]

Since we've been talking about the two gymnasts per country rule, I just realized that Viktoria Listunova the reigning Russian National Champion + European Champion and the inaugural World Jr Champion won't be in the all around even though she finished sixth overall in qualifying - unfortunately, it was behind three Americans and two of her teammates. I would be willing to compromise (lol) and say it's fine to keep the cap at two per country for the individual events - but I really think they should go back to allowing at least three from each country for All-Around. Also, does anyone know - are countries are allowed to substitute someone in if there is an injury? Because I was also wondering if there might be a Tatiana Gutsu - Roza Galieva situation on our hands.....  

[Lady Whistleup]

1 minute ago, ShellsandCheese said:

Since we've been talking about the two gymnasts per country rule, I just realized that Viktoria Listunova the reigning Russian National Champion + European Champion and the inaugural World Jr Champion won't be in the all around even though she finished sixth overall in qualifying - unfortunately, it was behind three Americans and two of her teammates. I would be willing to compromise (lol) and say it's fine to keep the cap at two per country for the individual events - but I really think they should go back to allowing at least three from each country for All-Around. Also, does anyone know - are countries are allowed to substitute someone in if there is an injury? Because I was also wondering if there might be a Tatiana Gutsu - Roza Galieva situation on our hands.....  

There;s some scuttlebutt on reddit that Jordan Chiles is injured. But since she didn't make EF it's unlikely that it will affect the roster. 

[Dots And Stripes]

Jordan finals is in the line-up for the Team Final on vault and floor. Simone and Grace (!) are doing all four for Team USA in the team final.

Edited July 26, 2021 by Dots And Stripes

[Daisy]

Just watched the MAG - I was expecting #TearsofBronze from China but they had a really solid meet, some wobbles/bobbles etc, so that's what cost them but not like the epic melt downs we've seen from them. ROC was really good  and them finding out they won Gold was soo emotional and amazing. And Japan did so well it was soo close. (I didn't see USA crash, maybe CBC-Stream didn't show).

[AuntieDiane6]

52 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

US didn't compete for a medal because they aren't deep enough in all six apparatuses.

True.  Plus ... Sam always blows it by missing an easy move, falling off the apparatus.  When the media called th4e US women's performance "uninspired," I thought, no, they're just making the same dumb mistakes the men's team makes. The women never would have had those errors under Marta Karolyi, I'll tell you that.  

[Lady Whistleup]

14 minutes ago, Daisy said:

Just watched the MAG - I was expecting #TearsofBronze from China but they had a really solid meet, some wobbles/bobbles etc, so that's what cost them but not like the epic melt downs we've seen from them. ROC was really good  and them finding out they won Gold was soo emotional and amazing. And Japan did so well it was soo close. (I didn't see USA crash, maybe CBC-Stream didn't show).

They didn't have a meltdown but they were supposed to rack up points in PB and had some shaky routines there which led to the photo finish in the final rotation. 

If I were Artur I'd scratch the AA and save his Achilles. He said it was his dream to take his team to the podium and he's done that and more. All things considered he's had the best possible Olympic experience. But then again I'm obviously not him because I'd never be able to compete with a reconstructed Achilles three months later ...

8 minutes ago, AuntieDiane6 said:

True.  Plus ... Sam always blows it by missing an easy move, falling off the apparatus.  When the media called th4e US women's performance "uninspired," I thought, no, they're just making the same dumb mistakes the men's team makes. The women never would have had those errors under Marta Karolyi, I'll tell you that.  

They actually had a lot of international meltdowns under Marta. Remember the 2008 team finals? 

Anyway, Marta should never ever be allowed near a gym again after she let LN run wild at the ranch. 

[CeeBeeGee]

11 minutes ago, AuntieDiane6 said:

True.  Plus ... Sam always blows it by missing an easy move, falling off the apparatus.  When the media called th4e US women's performance "uninspired," I thought, no, they're just making the same dumb mistakes the men's team makes. The women never would have had those errors under Marta Karolyi, I'll tell you that.  

They did in Athens in 2004.

I'm glad Jordan wasn't punished for her beam fall by striking her completely from the lineup for tomorrow. Among Marta's many other sins, it was outrageously cruel of her to remove Courtney McCool completely from the team final lineup. (She was such a gorgeous gymnast, too.) And then I remember some crappy fans saying she didn't even deserve the team silver because "she didn't do anything to achieve it" because of new life.

[AuntieDiane6]

6 hours ago, emma675 said:

It's like they haven't improved on that stage in so long. They just don't seem to have the skill set or level of support that the other countries do and it shows, sadly. 

They would get more support if they, you know, won. Which in many cases just means stuck landings and not failing on stupid easy moves (that means you, Sam). 

Quote

Anyway, Marta should never ever be allowed near a gym again after she let LN run wild at the ranch. 

I hadn't heard of her in connection with the Nassar crimes from the young women, but I could be wrong.  I had heard Moceanu's whining after 2008. I do think Marta used old school, Romanian techniques which apparently were draconian, but nobody but the Karolyis brought glory to US gymnastics like they did.  Now that they're gone, the US women seem to have gone back to lackluster performances.  But I could be wrong there too and this wake-up call could bring them back to their usual stellar performances.

 

[Lady Whistleup]

3 minutes ago, CeeBeeGee said:

They did in Athens in 2004.

I'm glad Jordan wasn't punished for her beam fall by striking her completely from the lineup for tomorrow. Among Marta's many other sins, it was outrageously cruel of her to remove Courtney McCool completely from the team final lineup. (She was such a gorgeous gymnast, too.) And then I remember some crappy fans saying she didn't even deserve the team silver because "she didn't do anything to achieve it" because of new life.

Not only that she made comments to the media that McCool wasn't "strong" enough. 

McCool was such a gorgeous gymnast. Actually, despite his awful history, Al Fong's GAGE gymnasts all have beautiful form and posture to this present day. Leanne Wong and Kara Eaker both have beautiful form. 

[KittenPokerCheater]

How do I find who the line-up is for the USA women’s for the team all around, if it’s already been posted.

I’m not going to blame Sam for all of his errors.  He tries. And it’s not as if he wants to perform badly.  And it’s not as if the US men have anyone who is better or more experienced.  Sigh.

I am so looking forward to seeing the men’s AA

[Lady Whistleup]

2 minutes ago, AuntieDiane6 said:

They would get more support if they, you know, won. Which in many cases just means stuck landings and not failing on stupid easy moves (that means you, Sam). 

I hadn't heard of her in connection with the Nassar crimes from the young women, but I could be wrong.  I had heard Moceanu's whining after 2008. I do think Marta used old school, Romanian techniques which apparently were draconian, but nobody but the Karolyis brought glory to US gymnastics like they did.  Now that they're gone, the US women seem to have gone back to lackluster performances.  But I could be wrong there too and this wake-up call could bring them back to their usual stellar performances.

 

The USA gymnasts absolutely do blame Marta for her gross negligence.

There is just no excuse for her letting LN run wild and enter girls' cabins on his own at the ranch. None. 

[CeeBeeGee]

3 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Not only that she made comments to the media that McCool wasn't "strong" enough. 

McCool was such a gorgeous gymnast. Actually, despite his awful history, Al Fong's GAGE gymnasts all have beautiful form and posture to this present day. Leanne Wong and Kara Eaker both have beautiful form. 

OMG I so agree about Fong. I kind of despise him but someone in that gym must be doing something right. They even salute beautifully. Sarah Finnegan was another favorite GAGE gymnast, just beauty in every pore.

Eff Marta for dissing Courtney like that. That poor kid. I remember how stricken she looked the day of team finals. I just wanted to hug her.

Edited July 26, 2021 by CeeBeeGee

[AuntieDiane6]

Quote

The USA gymnasts absolutely do blame Marta for her gross negligence.

That article is from 2018; do we know what happened after that? Were they ever charged?

[DawnDavenport]

5 hours ago, AuntieDiane6 said:

They would get more support if they, you know, won. Which in many cases just means stuck landings and not failing on stupid easy moves (that means you, Sam). 

I hadn't heard of her in connection with the Nassar crimes from the young women, but I could be wrong.  I had heard Moceanu's whining after 2008. I do think Marta used old school, Romanian techniques which apparently were draconian, but nobody but the Karolyis brought glory to US gymnastics like they did.  Now that they're gone, the US women seem to have gone back to lackluster performances.  But I could be wrong there too and this wake-up call could bring them back to their usual stellar performances.

 

Umm.... Nassar was abusing gymnasts during training camps at the ranch for years! I remember seeing pictures of the "rehab" room at the ranch that looked like the living room of a trailer park meth head.

Moceanu wasn't whining, she was bringing to light everything people had been speculating about for years and no one listened to her. No one stuck up for her, including most of her '96 teammates, but she was the one sounding the alarm and was proven right.

Martha retired in '16 and the US women have dominated every international competition they have entered both as a team and individually since, including in 2017 when Simone took time off and the Nassar scandal really blew up the entire USAG. 

 

Edited July 27, 2021 by DawnDavenport

[AuntieDiane6]

Quote

Martha retired in '16 and the US women have dominated every international competition they have entered both as a team and individually since, including in 2017 when Simone took time off and the Nassar scandal really blew up the entire USAG. 

Those gymnasts had trained under her.  Let's see what happens in another cycle.  They HAVE had to deal with a lot: the scandal, COVID, the deserved implosion of USAG. 

Maybe the US men can import a Russian coach.  Or maybe a coach like skating's Brian Orser, who seems to have a wonderful supportive attitude AND winning skaters!

 

[choclatechip45]

25 minutes ago, AuntieDiane6 said:

They would get more support if they, you know, won. Which in many cases just means stuck landings and not failing on stupid easy moves (that means you, Sam). 

I hadn't heard of her in connection with the Nassar crimes from the young women, but I could be wrong.  I had heard Moceanu's whining after 2008. I do think Marta used old school, Romanian techniques which apparently were draconian, but nobody but the Karolyis brought glory to US gymnastics like they did.  Now that they're gone, the US women seem to have gone back to lackluster performances.  But I could be wrong there too and this wake-up call could bring them back to their usual stellar performances.

 

That's not true at all. Morgan Hurd won the All-Around in 2017, US won the World's Team Gold in 2018 & 2019. 

Martha allowed Nassar do whatever he wanted as long as he cleared gymnasts to compete. She also created a culture were no one could speak up and every practice was treated like an Olympic final.  The 2004 & 2008 teams imploded under Martha because she overtrained them it wasn't until the USOC made it mandatory that the team be named at Olympic trials that the US started winning team gold.  

[Lady Whistleup]

13 minutes ago, choclatechip45 said:

That's not true at all. Morgan Hurd won the All-Around in 2017, US won the World's Team Gold in 2018 & 2019. 

Martha allowed Nassar do whatever he wanted as long as he cleared gymnasts to compete. She also created a culture were no one could speak up and every practice was treated like an Olympic final.  The 2004 & 2008 teams imploded under Martha because she overtrained them it wasn't until the USOC made it mandatory that the team be named at Olympic trials that the US started winning team gold.  

I am horrified every time I read descriptions of the ranch which say that girls were in cabins that didn't even have cell service, and yet Nassar was allowed to enter cabins whenever he wanted and allowed to be alone with female gymnasts anytime. It boggles the mind that Marta just allowed this. There's no gold medals that are worth that kind of abuse. Also, fuck NBC for promoting the Karolyis for so long.

[DawnDavenport]

27 minutes ago, AuntieDiane6 said:

Maybe the US men can import a Russian coach.  Or maybe a coach like skating's Brian Orser, who seems to have a wonderful supportive attitude AND winning skaters!

 

I believe a fair amount of the US men's coaches are former Russian gymnasts (some of them Olympic medalist from the 70s and 80s). I just think part of it is the men come from NCAA so gymnastics isn't a full-time career for them like it is in other countries. Most of them are also pursuing full-time college degrees (fair amount who are pre-med) while competing so it would require a big cultural shift to have men just being gymnasts and nothing else. 

Since the women are generally younger, they have NCAA after their elite careers so that accounts for probably most of the disparity between the US men and women.

[choclatechip45]

1 minute ago, Lady Whistleup said:

I am horrified every time I read descriptions of the ranch which say that girls were in cabins that didn't even have cell service, and yet Nassar was allowed to enter cabins whenever he wanted and allowed to be alone with female gymnasts anytime. It boggles the mind that Marta just allowed this. There's no gold medals that are worth that kind of abuse. Also, fuck NBC for promoting the Karolyis for so long.

Same. I don't think Martha knew because she didn't care! Which to me is even worse and he was allowed in hotel rooms!  I agree no medal is worth it.

3 minutes ago, DawnDavenport said:

I believe a fair amount of the US men's coaches are former Russian gymnasts (some of them Olympic medalist from the 70s and 80s). I just think part of it is the men come from NCAA so gymnastics isn't a full-time career for them like it is in other countries. Most of them are also pursuing full-time college degrees (fair amount who are pre-med) while competing so it would require a big cultural shift to have men just being gymnasts and nothing else. 

Since the women are generally younger, they have NCAA after their elite careers so that accounts for probably most of the disparity between the US men and women.

The Men's program is a mess at the moment. They didn't even give funding to one of the alternates until it became a huge uproar and told another gymnast if he went to Brazil for the Pan Ams and earned the extra spot he would get funding and didn't. No one wanted to go because of the pandemic. 

[pennben]

10 hours ago, Jenniferbug said:

Does anyone know if the replays of the women's gymnastics qualifying on the NBC Sports app would show the whole team? We watched in prime time last night, and I don't think we saw Grace at all. 

On the night of qualifying, I was able to watch “team tracker” for  on nbcOlympics.com, not sure that is available for replay, but worth a shot.  

[DawnDavenport]

14 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

I am horrified every time I read descriptions of the ranch which say that girls were in cabins that didn't even have cell service, and yet Nassar was allowed to enter cabins whenever he wanted and allowed to be alone with female gymnasts anytime. It boggles the mind that Marta just allowed this. There's no gold medals that are worth that kind of abuse. Also, fuck NBC for promoting the Karolyis for so long.

Wow, Paull Ruggeri is (rightfully) getting shredded on twitter for an absolutely brain dead post praising Martha: 

 

Edited July 27, 2021 by DawnDavenport

[Lady Whistleup]

6 minutes ago, choclatechip45 said:

Same. I don't think Martha knew because she didn't care! Which to me is even worse and he was allowed in hotel rooms!  I agree no medal is worth it.

The Men's program is a mess at the moment. They didn't even give funding to one of the alternates until it became a huge uproar and told another gymnast if he went to Brazil for the Pan Ams and earned the extra spot he would get funding and didn't. No one wanted to go because of the pandemic. 

I actually cannot watch the 2012 Olympics despite it being maybe my favorite quad because of the knowledge that LN was on a tear in London and that Makayla Maroney had to text her teammates "rescue me" in the middle of the Olympics. How absolutely horrible. 

[Dots And Stripes]

Go Danell! I always liked him.

This tweet keeps coming to mind:

 

[CeeBeeGee]

2 minutes ago, DawnDavenport said:

Wow, Paull Ruggeri is getting ripped apart on twitter for an absolutely brain dead post praising Martha: 

 

Learn to read? FUCK YOU. What an idiot.

Hey, that Hitler dude sure painted some nice pieces, plus he had the ambition to write a book. He had some bad ideas though.

[choclatechip45]

3 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

I actually cannot watch the 2012 Olympics despite it being maybe my favorite quad because of the knowledge that LN was on a tear in London and that Makayla Maroney had to text her teammates "rescue me" in the middle of the Olympics. How absolutely horrible. 

That particular incident didn't happen at the 2012 London Olympics it happened at the 2011 Tokyo World Championships. She has said he molested at her at the London Olympics. 

Edited July 27, 2021 by choclatechip45

[ShellsandCheese]

Martha and Bela’s impact on women’s gymnastics in the US is so overstated! Mary Lou Retton won in 1984 because the Soviets were boycotting. Kim Zmeskal, Dominique Moceanu, and a lot of their other gymnasts completely flamed out.
 

I would argue that the collapse of communism in Eastern Europe  and the demise of the USSR had a bigger impact because a lot of Soviet coaches packed up and headed to the US and other places. Add to that the collapse of their sports machine systems that churned out champions in the USSR and Romania disappeared or dramatically changed.
 

It’s kind boggling to me how people want to give the Karoyli’s all of the credit when there were clearly a number of factors that have led to the US Women’s current gymnastics dominance and that in itself isn’t as impressive as what the USSR and Romania did over the course of decades not a decade. 

Edited July 27, 2021 by ShellsandCheese

[choclatechip45]

Bela also cost us the bronze medal in 1988 because he didn't read the rulebook.

[Lady Whistleup]

10 minutes ago, choclatechip45 said:

That particular incident didn't happen at the 2012 London Olympics it happened at the 2011 Tokyo World Championships. She has said he molested at her at the London Olympics. 

Whatever the case is, knowing that there wasn't a single member of the 2012 that he "spared" just grosses me out and I cannot watch it. I loved that 2012 quad though -- probably the best balance between power and form.

[choclatechip45]

Just now, Lady Whistleup said:

Whatever the case is, knowing that there wasn't a single member of the 2012 that he "spared" just grosses me out and I cannot watch it. I loved that 2012 quad though -- probably the best balance between power and form.

Fair! It is probably my favorite team too and I find it so heartbreaking what they all went through. Honestly it's amazing how well that team with everything they all went through. 

[Lady Whistleup]

Another thing was that the Karolyis actually didn't know much gymnastics technique and relied on a revolving door of technical coaches to keep them afloat. These technician coaches came and went which is why many of their top gymnasts flamed out quickly -- there was no consistency. Dominique Moceanu said that her actual technical coach was Alexander Alexandrov.

NBC is actually showing the men's team competition now. 

[Jeddah]

24 minutes ago, Dots And Stripes said:

 

Go Danell! I always liked him.

 

You tell him, Danell!
I knew I liked him for a reason!

[CeeBeeGee]

1 minute ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Another thing was that the Karolyis actually didn't know much gymnastics technique and relied on a revolving door of technical coaches to keep them afloat. These technician coaches came and went which is why many of their top gymnasts flamed out quickly -- there was no consistency. Dominique Moceanu said that her actual technical coach was Alexander Alexandrov.

NBC is actually showing the men's team competition now. 

Dominique looked her absolute best under that Romanian coach, Luminita. She was gorgeous at the Goodwill Games in '98.

[BitterApple]

This is my first chance to watch the men's competition and I see what some of you were talking about with regards to the stadium lights. The glare is horrible and distracting. Maybe I've got sensitive eyes, but I'm having a tough time blocking them out. 

[choclatechip45]

Glad they are showing Men's Gymnastics in primetime! I really like Yul and Shane so I'm glad they are showing their routines in primetime.

[Lady Whistleup]

Artur's vault was amazing though! Holy shit the guy must be bionic. He's also a cutie.

[Dots And Stripes]

NBC is really moving through the men's competition. It looks like they skipped US on rings? I feel like they skipped rings in the qualifying round too. 

[ferjy]

2 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

This is my first chance to watch the men's competition and I see what some of you were talking about with regards to the stadium lights. The glare is horrible and distracting. Maybe I've got sensitive eyes, but I'm having a tough time blocking them out. 

My first watch too (and yes, those lights are terribly situated for the viewing audience, i.e. us). I don't know much about gymnastics. It just amazes me anyone can do any of that.

 

[Chaser]

I don’t understand the side view on the high bar.

Those Russian vaults were crazy.

 

[ferjy]

4 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

He's also a cutie.

After their funny comment, all I can do now is imagine them topless. 😄