S05.E02: Once There was a Court...

[Cranberry]

Quote

Diane and Marissa find themselves arguing at the Circuit 9 3/4 Court, led by the quirky "Judge" Hal Wackner. Carmen Moyo proves herself to be an effective, yet underestimated, new associate.

Original air date: July 1, 2021

[bobbyjoe]

Wow, the look that Liz gives Carmen when she says “I admired your father” feels like it has even more weight coming right at the same time as the Cosby news.  I know the writers didn’t plan this, but, wow.  Knowing what we know about everything Liz had to go through after the revelations about her dad, I suspect “I admired your father” is exactly the wrong kind of suck-up to say to her. The Liz-Carmen dynamic should prove interesting this season.

On the same note, kudos to the show for establishing right off the bat that the Carmen character is not just there to be Lucca 2.0.  They plunge Carmen into deep waters right from the start; I mean she’s literally threatening a prisoner her first episode in. 

The Judge Wackner storyline was fun, but this is one of those cases where it’s 50-50 if the writers spin this storyline into something genuinely interesting throughout the season or we end up with another Roland Blum/Michael Sheen scenario where you have a really good actor playing a character who’s written in such a cutesy and obnoxious manner that you start hating it every time he shows up on screen.

So glad to have the show back!
 

[maggiegil]

3 hours ago, bobbyjoe said:

Wow, the look that Liz gives Carmen when she says “I admired your father” feels like it has even more weight coming right at the same time as the Cosby news.  I know the writers didn’t plan this, but, wow.  Knowing what we know about everything Liz had to go through after the revelations about her dad, I suspect “I admired your father” is exactly the wrong kind of suck-up to say to her. The Liz-Carmen dynamic should prove interesting this season.

On the same note, kudos to the show for establishing right off the bat that the Carmen character is not just there to be Lucca 2.0.  They plunge Carmen into deep waters right from the start; I mean she’s literally threatening a prisoner her first episode in. 

If she wasn't too young I would have thought they might be suggesting that she had some sort of personal relationship with Reddick.

What I thought was wilder than her threatening a prisoner, was the outfits that she wore on both days, what is with the zip up high necks under a jacket? Especially the one she wore to court, the brown with the heavy hardware, it looked ridiculous to me. I miss the aspirational work wear of the Good Wife. Liz and Diane still dress well but I wish there was someone who wore as nice workwear on this series as on the Good Wife, it was always work appropriate but just beautifully cut and tailored. The only other series I've seen do work wear as well was The Split on BBC.

Wonder where Julius will go from here, hes had quite a fall from grace. I wonder are we done with Memo 618 or will there be some risidual fall out
 

[txhorns79]

2 hours ago, maggiegil said:

If she wasn't too young I would have thought they might be suggesting that she had some sort of personal relationship with Reddick.

I feel like there is going to be some kind of connection between she and Liz's father.  That girl is a smooth operator. 

Quote

The Judge Wackner storyline was fun, but this is one of those cases where it’s 50-50 if the writers spin this storyline into something genuinely interesting throughout the season or we end up with another Roland Blum/Michael Sheen scenario where you have a really good actor playing a character who’s written in such a cutesy and obnoxious manner that you start hating it every time he shows up on screen.

 

Yeah, it is definitely one of those things that could work well, or turn super obnoxious very quickly. 

[Fiftyninth]

Carmen Moyo is a great character addition to the show, I think. She had us sympathizing with her in the cold open, and then proved to be stone cold herself.

She’s like the opposite of Maya. Hmm, Maya/Moyo. Is there a deliberate play on names here? (Edited to say: Oops. The earlier character’s name was spelled Maia.)

Edited July 2, 2021 by Fiftyninth
Mea culpa added

[marny]

I saw the “I admired your father” comment more as shade with plausible deniability. 

[Quark]

This episode was gloriously ridiculous.

Mandy Patinkin looks like he was having a blast. 

I love how Carmen and Marissa were both given important jobs even though they are only newly qualified.

Looks like the exploding credits are back!

[ifionlyknew]

1 hour ago, Quark said:

This episode was gloriously ridiculous.

I thought this was one of show's best episodes.  

When Marissa and Carmen left the office at the end I immediately thought they will be Liz and Diane in 25 yrs.

Good to see Charles Lester still handling criminal's business dealings.  

[tableau vivant]

I'll be the odd man out and say how disappointed I was in this episode. I get the idea of what they're trying to say - since January 6, the absurd has taken over reality in our world. The courtroom is the most blatant example, while the most subtle is Baranski's character is a named partner in a top Black firm (which is not lost on their associates). But this storyline with Patinkin really stretches things.

The new character Carmen comes across to me as a blend of Lucca (when she first joined 'The Good Wife' years ago) and the character Moira on 'The Handmaid's Tale'. Seems like the Kings are borrowing heavily from that character of 'Moira', more than Lucca. She's a fine actress, though.

Can the writers give the immensely talented Audra MacDonald anything else to do other than scowl, grimace, and sigh ? And do we need a close-up on her every time she scowls ? 

Time will tell where this is going. Episode 1 seemed so promising, while Episode 2 is discouraging (to me). 

 

[Joimiaroxeu]

That toilet paper ice breaker, OMG. One guy swathed his whole hand in it. Hope he had a lot of secrets to tell.

I like Carmen a lot. She's quick on the uptake. There's something to be said for just being quiet and paying attention. People, especially men, tend to underestimate women who don't lead with their mouths.

Was that an obvious homage to The People's Court? Judge "Wackner" is similar to Judge Wapner, the original People's Court judge. But $60k is quite a bit more than the $5k maximum they allow on the TPC.

Lol, Diane quoting Grateful Dead lyrics. That was definitely an OK Boomer moment. 😏

You go, Carmen. She left Liz speechless. And now she knows people who can put a hit on her mentor if things so sour with her job at the firm. 😉

Ew, no. No shaking hands. That took me right out of the show. 😷

I don't like that they hired Julius back. If Liz is concerned about not making the firm look bad, that would seem to be an ill-advised move to me.

Saw that people on reddit are wondering if Carmen is high-functioning autistic. I hope not but it would be different I guess. Usually on TV the autistic characters are White men/boys.

Quote

If she wasn't too young I would have thought they might be suggesting that she had some sort of personal relationship with Reddick.

Maybe he's her father too? Could explain her behavior toward Liz.

Edited July 3, 2021 by Joimiaroxeu

[NutMeg]

On 7/1/2021 at 8:23 PM, bobbyjoe said:

Wow, the look that Liz gives Carmen when she says “I admired your father” feels like it has even more weight coming right at the same time as the Cosby news.  I know the writers didn’t plan this, but, wow.  Knowing what we know about everything Liz had to go through after the revelations about her dad, I suspect “I admired your father” is exactly the wrong kind of suck-up to say to her. The Liz-Carmen dynamic should prove interesting this season.

On the same note, kudos to the show for establishing right off the bat that the Carmen character is not just there to be Lucca 2.0.  They plunge Carmen into deep waters right from the start; I mean she’s literally threatening a prisoner her first episode in. 

The Judge Wackner storyline was fun, but this is one of those cases where it’s 50-50 if the writers spin this storyline into something genuinely interesting throughout the season or we end up with another Roland Blum/Michael Sheen scenario where you have a really good actor playing a character who’s written in such a cutesy and obnoxious manner that you start hating it every time he shows up on screen.

So glad to have the show back!
 

I love the new Carmen character, the actress is playing it beautifully and this opens up a lot of potential new avenues.

On 7/2/2021 at 4:38 PM, marny said:

I saw the “I admired your father” comment more as shade with plausible deniability. 

I like your way of thinking - it's definitely very intriguing.

Again, so happy to see this show back, and rather thrilled with the new cast additions / new story lines. Eagerly waiting for the next episode!

 

[jada]

This show lacks self awareness.  They hemorrhage black cast, in addition to having mostly white guest stars. It has a bizarre take on race relations where they act like they are liberal and not like "those other people", while being exactly like those other people. They pay lip service to the race issues. 

I enjoyed Carmen moving mad and playing with the bad guys. 

[Milburn Stone]

On 7/1/2021 at 4:46 PM, maggiegil said:

If she wasn't too young I would have thought they might be suggesting that she had some sort of personal relationship with Reddick.

What if she's Reddick's daughter?!? (And Liz's half-sister!)

On 7/3/2021 at 9:30 AM, tableau vivant said:

 

I'll be the odd man out and say how disappointed I was in this episode. I get the idea of what they're trying to say - since January 6, the absurd has taken over reality in our world.

 

That helps me with the episode. I didn't see the meaning you did, but I think you're right. I longed for the show being about something, like it used to be. In the Trump years, it was pretty much the only continuing drama that so much as acknowledged the Trump years! This season, that purpose is missing. But viewed through your lens, the show has a new subject to be about.

On 7/4/2021 at 1:36 PM, jada said:

This show lacks self awareness.  They hemorrhage black cast, in addition to having mostly white guest stars. It has a bizarre take on race relations where they act like they are liberal and not like "those other people", while being exactly like those other people. They pay lip service to the race issues. 

MV. I feel like the show is taking Liz's dilemma quite seriously. That's why there are stakes for Diane.

[marinw]

I'm confused about Marrisa. Isn't she still in her first year of law school?

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 7/1/2021 at 2:23 PM, bobbyjoe said:

On the same note, kudos to the show for establishing right off the bat that the Carmen character is not just there to be Lucca 2.0.  They plunge Carmen into deep waters right from the start; I mean she’s literally threatening a prisoner her first episode in. 

Can you explain the threat?  I didn't understand.

On 7/3/2021 at 2:36 PM, NutMeg said:

I love the new Carmen character, the actress is playing it beautifully and this opens up a lot of potential new avenues.

Agree

The actor playing Marisa's defendant is in some Sandra Bullock movies:  Miss Congeniality, Two Weeks Notice for example.

Edited July 10, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[SomeTameGazelle]

15 hours ago, marinw said:

I'm confused about Marrisa. Isn't she still in her first year of law school?

I had the impression we were supposed to understand a time jump since Marissa was clearly grouped with the first year associates.  However that isn't consistent with the search to replace Lucca happening now.

On 7/7/2021 at 10:17 AM, Milburn Stone said:

What if she's Reddick's daughter?!? (And Liz's half-sister!)

That was where my mind went, given her age. 

[marinw]

On 7/1/2021 at 6:46 PM, maggiegil said:

Liz and Diane still dress well

That white and silver patchwork blazer was devine!

One thing that always breaks the Fourth Wall on most TV shows is how the characters never wear the same outfit twice. I know that Partners make tons of $$, but the associates must still be paying off their student loans. This is most notible on the female characters, men can probably get away with wearing the same suits as long as they switch up the ties.

Edited July 11, 2021 by marinw

[milner]

Is it legal/allowed to have an all black firm and consequently let the white lawyers go?  I know some firms end up with basically one ethnicity but is it stated outright?  For instance could a firm declare they are an all white firm and fire all the black staff?  I have no idea and am just seeking clarification from those more knowledgeable. Thanks

[love2lovebadtv]

On 7/10/2021 at 1:05 AM, Ms Blue Jay said:

The actor playing Marisa's defendant is in some Sandra Bullock movies:  Miss Congeniality, Two Weeks Notice for example.

Yes, I recognized her voice from Miss Congeniality. She looks great!

On 7/9/2021 at 7:05 PM, marinw said:

I'm confused about Marissa. Isn't she still in her first year of law school?

She is but it seems like she's in some special program and I remember Liz (or Diane?) had a throwaway line about her sitting in. 

On 7/2/2021 at 10:38 AM, marny said:

I saw the “I admired your father” comment more as shade with plausible deniability. 

I hope we get to see what was behind that comment. So much potential here!

[wendyg]

I believe the line was actually  "I respected your father."

[Roseanna]

On 7/10/2021 at 8:14 PM, marinw said:

One thing that always breaks the Fourth Wall on most TV shows is how the characters never wear the same outfit twice. I know that Partners make tons of $$, but the associates must still be paying off their student loans. This is most notible on the female characters

That concerns mostly American shows.  

Instead, in British shows characters generally wear dresses that they can have bought with their salary. Even female characters can dress quite ordinarily, even shabbily, because it's more important what their dressing style tells about their profession, background, character and current mental state than that they look well to the audience. 

[TVForever]

On 7/1/2021 at 5:46 PM, maggiegil said:

If she wasn't too young I would have thought they might be suggesting that she had some sort of personal relationship with Reddick.
 

My first thought was, "Crap, is this another secret Reddick kid?"