S11.E04: Overexposed

[emma675]

I think Crystal was being a little over dramatic with the Sutton walking in on her naked story, but I also think Sutton acted a little weird, too. Most people would 1) not walk in to someone's bedroom without being invited to open the door first and 2) would immediately start apologizing profusely after having walked in on said person naked and probably scrambled to leave. Sutton was her usual awkward self and did none of those things. I think she actually made the situation worse with how she acted. Crystal already didn't like or trust her, they had several run ins already, and she may have been worried the camera crew was right behind her. 

[Jel]

What is Rinna up to? Why bring up the rape story, which is a story about refusing to ignore (and cover for?) a friend's heinous behavior? It was a rape story, not an affair story, so what's that got to do with Denise and Brandi? Side eye.

Crystal, when someone knocks on the door, try, "No, don't come in, I'm not dressed!"

If the person comes in anyway, tell them to get out.  Assert yourself. But, as @emma675 pointed out, she is new and may have been freaked out about the cameras, so  I give her a pass on that one. She does give off mean girl vibes though.

And Sutton, when you knock on someone's door and don't even have the courtesy to wait for an invitation in, and then you barge in to find they are not dressed, just apologize and leave.  Definitely don't ask what they are up to, "hilariously" implying it's something untoward. Jeez.

The flowers, erm how about don't do things that are going to cause you to need to send flowers in the first place. 

 

Edited June 12, 2021 by Jel

[Keywestclubkid]

Crystal was no way in the wrong with the Sutton walking in HER room. She had the door closed that’s all she was responsible for. IF the door was left open then yes I could see saying well she was inviting people in. This she should have locked the door if she didn’t want people walking in doesn’t hold water. You don’t walk into a room with the door shut when you know someone is in there cause you don’t know what they are doing especially a private bedroom. They weren’t good girlfriends they arnt friends you don’t open a door and walk in. Come on now. That is conmen sense and just manners.  The door was shut 

Edited June 12, 2021 by Keywestclubkid

[Jel]

Crystal was well within her rights to refuse entry to Sutton. And she should have said so in the moment. 

[Keywestclubkid]

2 minutes ago, Jel said:

Crystal was well within her rights to refuse entry to Sutton. And she should have said so in the moment. 

She told Kyle that she was in a bit of shock and that’s why she crouched down and covered herself.  That comes off as a bit of blaming the person who was in HER room minding HER business. She is not in the wrong tho. 

[eleanorofaquitaine]

I am not sure how Crystal has become the bad guy in the interactions between Sutton and Crystal because from where I sit, Sutton has consistently employed passive aggressive tactics to go after Crystal, then keeps falling back on tears and fragility when she's called to account for her behavior.  

I was with Crystal on the boat - Sutton was acting irrationally the evening before (which Kyle also affirmed) and yet the conversation on the boat started with Sutton implying that Crystal was in the wrong. And then when Crystal wouldn't concede that, Sutton devolved into her usual fragile tears. In the face of all of that, I would react the same way.

Sutton strikes me as someone who was not raised to stand up for herself, so instead of talking directly about what she's feeling, she devolves into a lot of emotionally manipulative behavior to get what she wants. It would be a lot easier for her and everyone if she could learn to just speak up for herself. 

[Jel]

6 minutes ago, Keywestclubkid said:

She told Kyle that she was in a bit of shock and that’s why she crouched down and covered herself.  That comes off as a bit of blaming the person who was in HER room minding HER business. She is not in the wrong tho. 

What Sutton did was rude, it wasn't mean. The response to rude behavior is to correct it. (Let the person know it's not acceptable.) 

Sutton might be one of those women who feels quite comfortable being naked around other women. Maybe that's normal and no big deal in her world. Maybe to Sutton it wasn't anything out of the ordinary. If she did that to me, I would have said, "Don't come in!".  

Crystal is a grown woman, she can set her own boundaries, she is the boss of who goes into her room. But I do think it's important to let people know what your boundaries are at the time they are being breeched instead of expecting them to know, allowing them to be violated, and then complaining about it afterwards to others. People will get this stuff wrong sometimes. I'm just being practical.

Tbh, I think this is kind of much ado about nothing, but Crystal calling her friend and having a discussion with Kyle about it after the fact instead of just addressing it in the moment seemed a little childish. YMMV.

[eleanorofaquitaine]

Re Crystal's delayed reaction - first of all, it's not unusual for a person to take a little while to process something that is upsetting to them. So I absolutely believe that the incident became more upsetting as she thought about it more.

But secondly, I also believe her that given Sutton's repeated use of her fragility as a form of aggression against Crystal, I can understand why Crystal wanted to avoid that drama for a third night in a row.

I agree that it would have been better for Crystal to address it at the time but I don't think she handled it all that badly - at least she didn't wait weeks to say something.

On the Rinna/Denise/Garcelle front - I wasn't a Denise fan, obviously, but I always thought Rinna's anger at Denise was bizarre.  And I have to agree with Garcelle that comparing Denise's actions - whatever they were - to Harry's story is so strange. And beyond that, don't play coy, Rinna. If you have some super secret info about Denise, then go ahead and share it, rather than play coy with it and insinuate that whatever it is, it is somehow close to Harry's friend committing rape. 

[Hiyo]

A closed door is a closed door. It doesn’t need to be locked. If you knock and get no answer, you don’t enter. To me, its that simple.

[Jel]

3 minutes ago, Hiyo said:

A closed door is a closed door. It doesn’t need to be locked. If you knock and get no answer, you don’t enter. To me, its that simple.

It's that simple to me, too. But if someone doesn't follow that simple rule, then what? 

[Keywestclubkid]

2 minutes ago, Jel said:

It's that simple to me, too. But if someone doesn't follow that simple rule, then what? 

u dont blame the person who was in their room and had an issue with it  ... easy peasy lemon squeezie :)

Edited June 12, 2021 by Keywestclubkid

[Jel]

5 minutes ago, Keywestclubkid said:

u dont blame the person who was in their room and had an issue with it  ... easy peasy lemon squeezie :)

Who is blaming Crystal for having a problem with Sutton barging into her room?

[Keywestclubkid]

17 minutes ago, Jel said:

Who is blaming Crystal for having a problem with Sutton barging into her room?

Plenty of blaming crystal and saying she should just get over it she should have locked her door etc etc. it is apparently  ok to coddle Sutton cause she is a “delicate flower” but Crystal can go F herself for having an issue with being walked in on naked … it just boggles my mind how this got flipped on crystal. Sutton repeatedly came for her Crystal responded but it’s Crystal who is the bad one. I just don’t get it 

Edited June 12, 2021 by Keywestclubkid

[ladle]

The montage of Rinna being called names was amazing. Once again the editors warm my cold heart. 

[OdinO.]

1 hour ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

I am not sure how Crystal has become the bad guy in the interactions between Sutton and Crystal because from where I sit, Sutton has consistently employed passive aggressive tactics to go after Crystal, then keeps falling back on tears and fragility when she's called to account for her behavior.  

I was with Crystal on the boat - Sutton was acting irrationally the evening before (which Kyle also affirmed) and yet the conversation on the boat started with Sutton implying that Crystal was in the wrong. And then when Crystal wouldn't concede that, Sutton devolved into her usual fragile tears. In the face of all of that, I would react the same way.

Sutton strikes me as someone who was not raised to stand up for herself, so instead of talking directly about what she's feeling, she devolves into a lot of emotionally manipulative behavior to get what she wants. It would be a lot easier for her and everyone if she could learn to just speak up for herself. 

I think Crystal is the bad guy because she seems like a real little bitch.

 

[Boo Boo]

On 6/10/2021 at 10:01 AM, Feech said:

The dinner and the shenanigans in the pool were fun and enjoyable because Crystal wasn’t there.

Her negative energy would have cast a pall over the whole thing.

The season would be much more fun if she were sent off to eat a lettuce leaf and pick at her scabs with her bestie Teddy on the Island of Misfit Housewives.

I do not like Crystal one bit.

Sutton appears to have mental health issues, anxiety issues.  Not saying she shouldn't be held accountable, but calling someone who clearly is having anxiety a crazy person isn't helpful either.  

I understand that Sutton is exhausting to be around, but she wasn't exhausting to be around until Crystal.

Edited June 12, 2021 by Boo Boo

[sistermagpie]

10 minutes ago, Boo Boo said:

Sutton appears to have mental health issues, anxiety issues.  Not saying she shouldn't be held accountable, but calling someone who clearly is having anxiety a crazy person isn't helpful either.  

 

I don't know...I don't always think she's lying, but she was very on top of things in that convo with Crystal. Like when Crystal smirked at whatever it was Sutton said, and Sutton immediately scolded about how she wasn't being nice. I don't know whether she's really got anxiety or if she's just very used to getting the reactions she wants and being centered. So rather than, say, acknowledge that Crystal's amusement was coming from the fact that Sutton had attacked her a couple of times already, she quickly used it as another example of how Crystal was the mean one. Sutton didn't have to laugh off any of her behavior.

[Keywestclubkid]

Crystal is a bitch because she reacted to Sutton brushing aside her experience has A POC because if Sutton doesn’t see color then racism apparently doesn’t happen to crystal? Crystal has not come for Sutton ONCE without first being poked at by Sutton. This is ALL on Sutton everything that Crystal has done is in response to what Sutton first does to her.  Crystal hasn’t been shown to be vicious on her own towards Sutton at all like it doesn’t just come out of nowhere like oh there she is let’s be a bitch.
 

I love this board and how we can debate without getting nasty :)  

Edited June 12, 2021 by Keywestclubkid

[ladle]

Oh Sutton. If you don’t want to be thought of as crazy, maybe don’t wear those shoes to dinner. 

[ladle]

Important question: what was happening with Erika’s pants? Were they jeans with an elastic waist band (which: no shade) but also with buttons under that which were undone for some reason? And…why?

[OdinO.]

26 minutes ago, Keywestclubkid said:

Crystal is a bitch because she reacted to Sutton brushing aside her experience has A POC because if Sutton doesn’t see color then racism apparently doesn’t happen to crystal? Crystal has not come for Sutton ONCE without first being poked at by Sutton. This is ALL on Sutton everything that Crystal has done is in response to what Sutton first does to her.  Crystal hasn’t been shown to be vicious on her own towards Sutton at all like it doesn’t just come out of nowhere like oh there she is let’s be a bitch.
 

I love this board and how we can debate without getting nasty :)  

No she just is smug and has no reason to be. That's why she is a bitch

[Hiyo]

“But if someonedoesn't follow that simple rule, then what?”

Throw heavy objects at their face/head. Hopefully that’ll learn ‘em!

“No she just is smug and has no reason to be. That's why she is a bitch”

If Crystal is perceived to be a bitch, its probably because Sutton brings it out in her. She seems to get along fine with the rest of the HWs. 

[Feech]

13 minutes ago, OdinO. said:

No she just is smug and has no reason to be. That's why she is a bitch

Her tag line tells you all you need to know about her arrogant, smug, elitist ass.

One and done.

[Keywestclubkid]

3 minutes ago, Feech said:

Her tag line tells you all you need to know about her arrogant, smug, elitist ass.

One and done.

all these ladies have smug tag lines tho 

[Boo Boo]

58 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

I don't know...I don't always think she's lying, but she was very on top of things in that convo with Crystal. Like when Crystal smirked at whatever it was Sutton said, and Sutton immediately scolded about how she wasn't being nice. I don't know whether she's really got anxiety or if she's just very used to getting the reactions she wants and being centered. So rather than, say, acknowledge that Crystal's amusement was coming from the fact that Sutton had attacked her a couple of times already, she quickly used it as another example of how Crystal was the mean one. Sutton didn't have to laugh off any of her behavior.

Having mental health issues and anxiety doesn't mean you act like a "crazy person" 100% of the time.  

And whether she believes Sutton to have mental health issues or not, calling someone a crazy person isn't cool.  You know, her crazy comments are as antiquated as saying "I don't see color."  

Call her out on the behavior or actions.  Don't call someone crazy especially when someone's using a dermal roller to help keep calm.  These are the actions of someone suffering anxiety, and suffering anxiety doesn't mean you suffer it 24/7 during the day.

Edited June 12, 2021 by Boo Boo

[eleanorofaquitaine]

Just now, Keywestclubkid said:

all these ladies have smug tag lines tho 

Seriously, Erika's tag line is the worst.

Anyway, don't love how the word "bitch" is being thrown around, in general. And I don't see Crystal as anything other than a calm person who knows how to defend herself. It's unfortunate that some see those qualities as making someone a "bitch."

[Feech]

Crystal only called her crazy because she is cruel and elitist. People have many things they use to help calm anxiety. Everything from worry beads to crystal to service animals.

Some of them even do splits to manage their anxiety.

Edited June 12, 2021 by Feech

[NYCFree]

The first negative interaction between Crystal and Sutton occurred when Crystal started telling Kyle about how she and her friends experienced discrimination as Chinese Americans. Sutton interrupted Crystal with “no, no, no” and insisted Crystal not speak on the topic, then Sutton went on to elaborate on the discrimination she has experienced as a southern white woman. That’s when Crystal (obviously irked at being told not to speak, then having a false equivalency presented for racism) asked “are you one of those people who don’t see color?”

The next day, Sutton corners Crystal to speak about the evening. She basically insists that Crystal apologize for asking “if she doesn’t see color.” Crystal does so, possibly motivated by being the new person in the group, possibly because she has manners and Sutton was distressed. Sutton says “sorry if my tears offended you.”  No apologies for interrupting Crystal and shutting her down.

That night Crystal tries to include Sutton on the practical joke by nudging her with her foot. Sutton has an epic melt down, that even her closest friends are telling her was irrational. Later that night she walks in on Crystal without waiting for an answer to her knock. Crystal was nude and startled and Sutton made a snide remark before leaving.

By day three, Crystal had been interrupted, shut down, not apologized to, irrationally responded to and had her privacy invaded by Sutton. If she wasn’t particularly warm to Sutton’s tears on the boat, it is beyond understandable.

Edited June 12, 2021 by NYCFree

[sistermagpie]

Just now, Boo Boo said:

Having mental health issues and anxiety doesn't mean you act like a "crazy person" 100% of the time.  

And whether or not she believes Sutton to have mental health issues or not, calling someone a crazy person isn't cool.  You know, her crazy comments are as antiquated as saying "I don't see color."  

Call her out on the behavior or actions.  Don't call someone crazy especially when someone's using a dermal roller to help keep calm.  These are the actions of someone suffering anxiety, and suffering anxiety doesn't mean you suffer it 24/7 during the day.

Oh, I agree. I think Crystal was out of line repeating how she's "crazy" and acting like she was diagnosing her. She was much more accurate when she just said look, I don't feel like I can trust your emotional reactions--that was much more reasonable. 

Sutton could have actual anxiety issues--but I don't know if she does either, and nothing in that particular scene would have made me think that. I wouldn't have diagnosed her like Crystal did to be mean, but also don't assume that's the explanation. She keeps deciding to confront Crystal and was just quick to correct Crystal's reactions to her, going back to explaining how Crystal was at fault. She could have anxiety and be used to being coddled or deferred to, of course.

4 minutes ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

Anyway, don't love how the word "bitch" is being thrown around, in general. And I don't see Crystal as anything other than a calm person who knows how to defend herself. It's unfortunate that some see those qualities as making someone a "bitch."

Yup, I think that's why she gets called a bitch. Her affect is unemotional so she's perceived as a cold bitch.

[Jel]

I think Sutton's anxiety is real, and many people can relate to it and can empathize with her.  I don't think calling her a crazy person is a good (or "nice") thing to do, or a good look for Crystal for that matter. But I also think that underneath Sutton's anxiety, there's entitlement.  She lost me with the "No, no, no we are not going there" with Crystal. I mean who says that to someone who is only trying to share her experience?  Why does Sutton think her right to be heard trumps someone else's?

 

 

[Cosmocrush]

3 minutes ago, Jel said:

Why does Sutton think her right to be heard trumps someone else's?

I'm guessing years and years of practice.  

[Feech]

10 minutes ago, Jel said:

Why does Sutton think her right to be heard trumps someone else's?

 

 

Because she brought the gift bags!

[Keywestclubkid]

42 minutes ago, ladle said:

Important question: what was happening with Erika’s pants? Were they jeans with an elastic waist band (which: no shade) but also with buttons under that which were undone for some reason? And…why?

Fashion? Lol remember when it was all the rage to wear two or 3 polo shirts at the same time with the collar popped? 

[Jel]

Or a short sleeved t-shirt over a long sleeved one

[Hiyo]

“Youknow, her crazy comments are as antiquated as saying "I don't see color."”

Definitely have to agree to disagree on that one. 

“all these ladies have smug tag lines tho”

The show wouldn’t be the same without them.

[Boo Boo]

30 minutes ago, Jel said:

I think Sutton's anxiety is real, and many people can relate to it and can empathize with her.  I don't think calling her a crazy person is a good (or "nice") thing to do, or a good look for Crystal for that matter. But I also think that underneath Sutton's anxiety, there's entitlement.  She lost me with the "No, no, no we are not going there" with Crystal. I mean who says that to someone who is only trying to share her experience?  Why does Sutton think her right to be heard trumps someone else's?

 

 

I know that Sutton was 100% wrong in the conversation on race and trying to shut whatever Crystal was saying down.  That said, Crystal lost me though in the mocking "Oh you're one of those who don't see color..."  Sutton and I were raised in an era where that was the RIGHT thing to say.  Sutton likely didn't know how she was supposed to respond to the question.  She chose to respond the way she likely thought was the correct way and was roasted, made fun of for it.  I know better, but not everyone does.   

Sutton should certainly not be equating her experiences with Southern racist stereotypes; a rich white woman having to deal with a misconception?  Who really cares.  That said, I also get the impression that Crystal equates Asian racism she's experienced as though she's had the black experience.  Maybe she's just more sympathetic because she understands racism. 

I don't know -- there's just something about Crystal that has rubbed me the wrong way.  I'm not a fan of Sutton's; I think she's very socially awkward and likely has issues with anxiety.  I didn't think so her first year or pre-Crystal, but this year it's pretty clear she should not be on this show at all.

 

Edited June 12, 2021 by Boo Boo

[Feech]

Anything Sutton could have said would be wrong. Or at least twisted and wrung out to find offense.

Suttons best play is not to talk or interact with Crystal again for the rest of her tenure on the show. Luckily there are enough people in the supersized cast that she doesn’t have to interact with her again.

 

[sistermagpie]

6 minutes ago, Feech said:

Anything Sutton could have said would be wrong. Or at least twisted and wrung out to find offense.

 

Why would anything Sutton could have said be wrong or twisted and wrung out to find offense? Crystal didn't do that later.

[Boo Boo]

7 minutes ago, Feech said:

Anything Sutton could have said would be wrong. Or at least twisted and wrung out to find offense.

Suttons best play is not to talk or interact with Crystal again for the rest of her tenure on the show. Luckily there are enough people in the supersized cast that she doesn’t have to interact with her again.

 

Do the previews show Crystal battling it out with anyone else?  Or did she just recognize Sutton to be the weak link?

[Keywestclubkid]

3 minutes ago, Boo Boo said:

Do the previews show Crystal battling it out with anyone else?  Or did she just recognize Sutton to be the weak link?

No one else is constantly attacking Crystal tho. It’s not attacking the weak link it’s the “weak link” poking at her repeatedly over and over 

[Feech]

I think they dropped the Sutton storyline when the Erika Jayne news dropped.

Traditionally the second year is when a Housewife gets trashed as happened with Denise last year.

Lucky for Sutton the story is now about taking food out of the mouth of widows and orphans instead of torturing her like a mouse on a glue board.

[Boo Boo]

2 minutes ago, Keywestclubkid said:

No one else is constantly attacking Crystal tho. It’s not attacking the weak link it’s the “weak link” poking at her repeatedly over and over 

Funny, I don't really see Sutton as attacking Crystal though.

Getting off the Sutton/Crystal saga for a moment, I loved Erika's "you never really know everything about a person..." TH.  I'm sure she's hoping we all say, "See, she couldn't possibly know everything about her criminal husband Tom!"

[Jel]

18 minutes ago, Boo Boo said:

I know that Sutton was 100% wrong in the conversation on race and trying to shut whatever Crystal was saying down.  That said, Crystal lost me though in the mocking "Oh you're one of those who don't see color..."  Sutton and I were raised in an era where that was the RIGHT thing to say.  Sutton likely didn't know how she was supposed to respond to the question.  She chose to respond the way she likely thought was the correct way and was roasted, made fun of for it.    Sutton should certainly not be equating her experiences with Southern racist stereotypes; a rich white woman having to deal with a misconception?  Who really cares.  That said, I also get the impression that Crystal equates Asian racism she's experienced as though she's had the black experience.  Maybe she's just more sympathetic because she understands racism.  

 

I agree with you Boo Boo, about Crystal's reaction. I also thought it was mocking/snippy/judgy. And I agree that it caught Sutton of guard because of the way Crystal posed the question. I think Crystal has mean girl tendencies, and we saw them there. As you said, it doesn't make Sutton right in her approach, and it doesn't make Crystal wrong in her objection to it.

It's a shame that the expression "color blind" or "I don't see color" ever caught on, because it's silly on its face. But the idea that the way to regard individuals is AS individuals is still 100% correct, and always will be because it's an absolute moral truth.  

[Feech]

I don’t see how Erika wiggles out of this. I know she will try to intimidate them with a cold and icy menace wit a “Don’t fuck with me” face on all the time.

It will be interesting to see who challenges her and who folds. 

[Boo Boo]

3 minutes ago, Jel said:

I agree with you Boo Boo, about Crystal's reaction. I also thought it was mocking/snippy/judgy. And I agree that it caught Sutton of guard because of the way Crystal posed the question. I think Crystal has mean girl tendencies, and we saw them there. As you said, it doesn't make Sutton right in her approach, and it doesn't make Crystal wrong in her objection to it.

It's a shame that the expression "color blind" or "I don't see color" ever caught on, because it's silly on its face. But the idea that the way to regard individuals is AS individuals is still 100% correct, and always will be because it's an absolute moral truth.  

I agree with everything you said.  And yes, it was silly.  I remember rolling my eyes when that became a thing but attitudes of what is racist and what isn't have changed a lot over the past few years. And I think everyone is on edge about saying the wrong thing that could be misconstrued.  With this being on national TV, it would make it even more dicey.   

[Keywestclubkid]

10 minutes ago, Boo Boo said:

Funny, I don't really see Sutton as attacking Crystal though.

Getting off the Sutton/Crystal saga for a moment, I loved Erika's "you never really know everything about a person..." TH.  I'm sure she's hoping we all say, "See, she couldn't possibly know everything about her criminal husband Tom!"

Maybe attack is the wrong word. She just seems to be pushing at crystal trying to catch her in a ah hah moment. 

[Boo Boo]

Just now, Keywestclubkid said:

Maybe attack is the wrong word. She just seems to be pushing at crystal trying to catch her in a ah hah moment. 

Yeah, probably.

I see Sutton as shell-shocked about the "see no color" mocking.  I think she wants that ah ha moment and also wants to be her friend too.  

(Also, I do not blame Crystal for being upset about being walked in on naked.  I would also feel incredibly embarrassed if that happened to me.  Don't walk in if someone hasn't said, "Come on in.")

[Feech]

2 minutes ago, Keywestclubkid said:

Maybe attack is the wrong word. She just seems to be pushing at crystal trying to catch her in a ah hah moment. 

I know. 
 

On the boat trip she tried to catch Kyle in a “”Flock of Seagulls” moment.

[Hiyo]

“Why would anything Sutton could have said be wrong or twisted and wrung out to find offense? Crystal didn't do that later.”

If anything, Sutton proved herself as someone who “doesn’t see color” in the negative, given how she tried to shut down Crystal and negating whatever racism and bigotry Crystal may have experienced due to her ethnicity. 

 

“Do the previews show Crystal battling it out with anyone else?  Or did she justrecognize Sutton to be the weak link?”

I don’t think Crystal sees Sutton that way, since most of the beef seems to be initiated by Sutton. 

[eleanorofaquitaine]

The narrative that Sutton is the "weak link," despite her being the aggressor in every single one of her interactions with Crystal, is basically built out of whole cloth in order to turn Crystal into a villain.  Sutton weaponizes fragility and some tend to buy into that personality type as someone who needs to be protected. It's not my thing.