S01.E09 Silence Is Purgatory

[AimingforYoko]

Quote

After ViCAP links the River Murders to a pharmaceutical company, Clarice seeks help from Julia Lawson, the corporate accountant for the company, who refuses to work with the FBI, and with Clarice specifically. Also, Catherine goes outside for the first time since her rescue from Buffalo Bill, and Ardelia and Agent Garrett connect with a lawyer they hope will take on the Black Coalition's case against the FBI.

A lot going on this episode, between the case, Ardelia's lawsuit, Catherine taking baby steps, Clarice giving Esquivel relationship advice(really?) and Julia Lawson doing a cleanup on aisle 3 from Silence.

Where the hell is Kal Penn? Did he take a job with the Biden Administration?

[Annber03]

I liked the discussion between Clarice and Julia about how all the press about the murders had such a negative impact on transsexual people, and the struggles they had to deal with as a result of that. That was a good, powerful scene. And unfortunately for Julia, it seems there's more of that pain to come. 

6 hours ago, AimingforYoko said:

A lot going on this episode, between the case, Ardelia's lawsuit

Yeah, I'm interested to see where that goes, too. 

[Tombz]

I wish they had made this series more about Clarice and Cases.
I’ve lost all interest, it could have been so good too, but sadly, they have tried to ram a whole lot of other crap in…(just because)
I won’t say what that crap is, as I am sure y’all know anyway.

[janeta]

Someone please remind me what year this is supposed to be? I thought Erin said something to Julia about being on her insurance? That would not have flown unless Julia was claiming her as a daughter or sister or something (and maybe she was).  And I’m pretty sure the “they/them” pronouns have only come into use in the last 5 - 10 yrs…

[RayWho]

 

1 hour ago, janeta said:

come into use in the last 5 - 10 yrs

Also we didn't start "throwing people under the bus."

[janeta]

🤔 I think throwing people under buses has been around a while,  but maybe not that long… isn’t this show supposed to be taking place in the early 90’s maybe? (I saw SOTL when it came out but have forgotten almost everything about it.  IMDB says 1991 for that movie. Now, if we want to talk about Manhunter, I'm all over that. 🙂)

Edited May 14, 2021 by janeta

[sempervivum]

Yeah, this is meandering into Law & Order/FBI-level 'who can be the wokest' territory. I've been on the fence about this show for a while, and if we're going to be Dick Wolfe-ing it up now, I'm out.

[tennisgurl]

Honestly I keep forgetting that this show is set in the early 90s, everyone pretty much talks like its modern day and there aren't a lot of clues in clothes, music, or culture that peg the show has early 90s besides the lack of social media and cell phones. I guess just because its going for a drab serial killer show vibe, but I really wish they could make at feel a bit more early 90s. 

The scene between Clarice and Julia was good, having a monster tied to your identity and the fear that you could get lumped in with them really sucks, it felt like something of a response to criticism that Buffalo Bill is transphobic, although I feel pretty bad for Clarice. She is really getting it on all ends from everyone lately, even for things she had no idea she did. No wonder she hardly reacted to finding out that Ardelia was tossing her under that bus for the greater good, its just same old same old. Clarice might be happy that the agency might stop pushing her as their poster girl if she gets name dropped in the suit, she has never been comfortable being the face of the FBI. 

This is why so often these conspiracy stories get so boring, its just all of these smug guys in suites that are basically omniscient and always know what the heroes are doing and are always five steps ahead and murder every person they talk to except the main characters who they never kill for some reason, its just so uninteresting. Then it just keeps going for ever and ever as it becomes increasingly convoluted and goes on way after its become interesting until its swallowed the entire show in nonsense plot twists and boring villains.  

At least we got two episodes of weeks in a row, this show really needs to get a consistent schedule or its really going to suffer, especially for casual viewers who might not seek out episodes after missing a night.

Edited May 14, 2021 by tennisgurl

[I Want My MBTV]

3 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

At least we got two episodes of weeks in a row, this show really needs to get a consistent schedule or its really going to suffer, especially for casual viewers who might not seek out episodes after missing a night.

Seriously!  And another repeat next week.  Last night I forgot this show was on then I watched it but today I forgot that I watched it and could barely remember what happened until I came here.  I had such high hopes for this show - serves me right :-)

 

 

[Cinnabon]

22 hours ago, Tombz said:

I wish they had made this series more about Clarice and Cases.
I’ve lost all interest, it could have been so good too, but sadly, they have tried to ram a whole lot of other crap in…(just because)
I won’t say what that crap is, as I am sure y’all know anyway.

I don’t know, what is it?

the expression “throwing under the bus” has been around since the 80s.

 

Edited May 15, 2021 by Cinnabon

[Msample]

Would it kill them to add some lighting to this show ? I get that its set in the past, but sheesh. Its like 1970 or something in the way that it looks. 

Kal Penn MIA again. Looking at IMDB he appears done for the season. I suspect the chopped up shooting schedule didn't align with his and he had prior commitments. Another nail in the coffin. While this show has been linked to being moved to Paramount +, I don't think its actually been renewed yet. 

[AimingforYoko]

7 hours ago, Msample said:

While this show has been linked to being moved to Paramount +, I don't think its actually been renewed yet. 

It has and it is. Paramount+ can't be all Star Trek and Yellowstone, they need content.

[Annber03]

TV Line seems to indicate it's not official yet, just that that's the likely plan if the show gets renewed. But this article says they're still waiting on official word:

https://tvline.com/2021/05/14/seal-team-season-5-moving-to-paramount-clarice-season-2/

[edhopper]

Can they drop the scenes with the Senator and her insufferable daughter.

[Cotypubby]

I don’t know why I am supposed to care about Catherine’s love life. Why is she even a character in this? She was fine as a one-off callback to Silence, but stop trying to make her an actual storyline here. 
 

Yeah, the whole “they/they’re” thing when Julia was talking about Buffalo Bill? No, just no. The scene between her and Clarice was good and then the writers screw it up by forcing that late-2010s piece of dialogue in there. No one talked like that. And “they” wouldn’t even fit for Bill anyway. That was such a fake “gotta show how woke we are!!” move by the writers. At least they still used the term transsexual and didn’t try to ret-con transgender in there instead.

[Simba122504]

18 hours ago, Cotypubby said:

I don’t know why I am supposed to care about Catherine’s love life. Why is she even a character in this? She was fine as a one-off callback to Silence, but stop trying to make her an actual storyline here. 
 

Yeah, the whole “they/they’re” thing when Julia was talking about Buffalo Bill? No, just no. The scene between her and Clarice was good and then the writers screw it up by forcing that late-2010s piece of dialogue in there. No one talked like that. And “they” wouldn’t even fit for Bill anyway. That was such a fake “gotta show how woke we are!!” move by the writers. At least they still used the term transsexual and didn’t try to ret-con transgender in there instead. 

They need to pick a decade. This is supposed to take place in the early '90s. You have to show the good, the bad and the ugly. DADT became the law in '94 which is before the time frame of the series. The gay panic defense was still a popular thing. Gay marriage was illegal. People still called transwomen "cross dresser" and "transvestite." I'm pretty positive LGBT adoption was also illegal. TPTB cannot put 2021 politics in the '90s. 

Edited May 16, 2021 by Simba122504
Don't Ask, Don't Tell is "DADT"

[rtms77]

This episode had me rolling my eyes. They are using victim methodology. They Adeila and friends have clear cut cases but nope let’s hook our hopes on blaming Clarice who has nothing to to with it and has never demonstrated biased against any black colleagues.  
Not to mention they may rue the day they try this if Clarice and company get in way over the FBI heads. Suddenly all those claims are going to look like the fake opportunistic of a dirty FBI agent etc. They’ll have a hard time out running that fire. 

As for Julia, boo boo it’s not Clarices fault, she has no control over what the media who manipulate stories will promote. Even if she did try, they still wouldn’t have bothered. This is a woman who can’t even talk to the victim without sounding garbled.

Speaking of Catherine, wow she is dangerous! How has she avoided a stay at the physc ward? 
 

If this is renewed they need a better , more coherent season , maybe mini arc but more episode of the week baddie. Just too much filler .And be consistent in schedule. 

[ctlady]

On 5/15/2021 at 4:12 AM, Cinnabon said:

On 5/14/2021 at 6:11 AM, Tombz said:

I wish they had made this series more about Clarice and Cases.
I’ve lost all interest, it could have been so good too, but sadly, they have tried to ram a whole lot of other crap in…(just because)
I won’t say what that crap is, as I am sure y’all know anyway.

I don’t know, what is it?

I'll say it - racism and LGBTQ issues.  This is supposed to take place right after the movie when none of this social/political narrative was around.  How clever they found a way to segue the narrative of the current climate into this show.  We see and hear it enough in the news, online, articles, social media - etc.  And THAT'S where I go when I want to be informed.  I'm sick and tired of continuously being preached to from television shows that I turn to  when I want to tune out this crazy, upside down world and be entertained.  

I grit my teeth at the Ardelia/black coalition storyline from the week before because I am really enjoying this show, but......just like script writers can put whatever dialogue/narrative into a show I can easily turn the channel - just like I had to do with other shows that felt the need to pander to current events in an effort to be relatable.  Don't 'relate' to me - 'entertain' me.  Simple as that.  

Sadly.....I may have to pass on this show if it continues in this direction

[RunningMarket]

The lawsuit filed by Ardelia et al is apparently based on a real lawsuit against the FBI in the 90s. So as far as that part goes, this is staying true to era and story.

I follow Michael Cudliz's FB page, and he said Kal Penn was not off the show. However, he might just be saying that as there's been no formal announcement.

EDIT TO ADD: This is a link to the LA Times story about the lawsuit.

Edited May 17, 2021 by RunningMarket

[Simba122504]

On 5/16/2021 at 10:12 PM, rtms77 said:

This episode had me rolling my eyes. They are using victim methodology. They Adeila and friends have clear cut cases but nope let’s hook our hopes on blaming Clarice who has nothing to to with it and has never demonstrated biased against any black colleagues.  
Not to mention they may rue the day they try this if Clarice and company get in way over the FBI heads. Suddenly all those claims are going to look like the fake opportunistic of a dirty FBI agent etc. They’ll have a hard time out running that fire. 

As for Julia, boo boo it’s not Clarices fault, she has no control over what the media who manipulate stories will promote. Even if she did try, they still wouldn’t have bothered. This is a woman who can’t even talk to the victim without sounding garbled.

Speaking of Catherine, wow she is dangerous! How has she avoided a stay at the physc ward? 
 

If this is renewed they need a better , more coherent season , maybe mini arc but more episode of the week baddie. Just too much filler .And be consistent in schedule. 

I don't know why Catherine is on this show?   I doubt her state of mind would even be a secret at this point. Too high profile and her mother holds a powerful position. And how long are they going to cuddle her issues?  She needs professional help. If they get a S2 on Paramount+, she needs to be written out. She checked herself into treatment. 

[Dowel Jones]

In the last scene, with all the news clippings and such, I think they're setting her up to be a psycho killer.

[Simba122504]

12 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

In the last scene, with all the news clippings and such, I think they're setting her up to be a psycho killer.

She's not that interesting, though. They're trying to make fetch happen. It's not going to happen. 

[rtms77]

On 5/19/2021 at 2:08 PM, Simba122504 said:

She's not that interesting, though. They're trying to make fetch happen. It's not going to happen. 

 

On 5/19/2021 at 1:28 AM, Dowel Jones said:

In the last scene, with all the news clippings and such, I think they're setting her up to be a psycho killer.

Well not a serial psycho killer , but yes she’s going after Buffalo Bill  momma. She’ll get off with a long stay at the psych ward while her moms career tanks. 

[BellyLaughter]

On 5/16/2021 at 11:14 AM, edhopper said:

Can they drop the scenes with the Senator and her insufferable daughter.

Especially as this version of Katherine Martin does not in the slightest resemble the awesome Katherine Martin from the movie.....I can't imagine that Katherine being so insufferable.

[BK1978]

On 5/16/2021 at 11:12 PM, rtms77 said:

As for Julia, boo boo it’s not Clarices fault, she has no control over what the media who manipulate stories will promote. Even if she did try, they still wouldn’t have bothered. This is a woman who can’t even talk to the victim without sounding garbled.

This is what brought me into this thread.  That whole scene was so weird.  I felt like Julia was trying to accuse Clarice of something she had absolutely no control over.  To me it was just a giant virtue signal.

In regards to when this is supposed to take place.  I was questioning that myself.  I could have sworn in one of the office scenes they had flat screen computer monitors and I do not recall those being a thing back then.   Maybe I am wrong, but I thought I saw them.

[ShellsandCheese]

On 5/17/2021 at 3:33 PM, RunningMarket said:

The lawsuit filed by Ardelia et al is apparently based on a real lawsuit against the FBI in the 90s. So as far as that part goes, this is staying true to era and story.

I follow Michael Cudliz's FB page, and he said Kal Penn was not off the show. However, he might just be saying that as there's been no formal announcement.

EDIT TO ADD: This is a link to the LA Times story about the lawsuit.

Yep. But people have it in their heads that these issues didn't exist in the past. They did, folks just didn't hear about them for a myriad of reasons. The plot with Ardelia actually does not feel shoehorned in and it's obvious it's been building all season. I wish they would cut the stuff with Catherine. She's not a part of the FBI, she's not related to the three murdered women arc, etc - I could do without her. I may be an outlier but I don't mind a dose of reality in TV shows, it adds authenticity and makes them more believable and relatable to me. 

[Netfoot]

14 hours ago, ShellsandCheese said:

I wish they would cut the stuff with Catherine. She's not a part of the FBI, she's not related to the three murdered women arc, etc - I could do without her.

Without her, there is no connection to the source material. Other than the names of a few characters. They'd have wasted money on all those moths!

[SunnyBeBe]

I haven’t been following this show, since around the first episode, however, I caught this episode and really liked it.  So, only one more episode for the season?  That figures.  If it goes to Paramount +, I probably won’t watch another season.  That whole Plus stuff annoys me and I’m trying to steer clear.  It feels like network manipulation to me, to put it kindly.

[Annber03]

2 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

So, only one more episode for the season?  That figures. 

No, there's actually four more episodes yet to air this season :). Saw a thing last week elsewhere that these remaining four will air straight through these next four weeks, too-no more long breaks in between new episodes. 

[SunnyBeBe]

5 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

No, there's actually four more episodes yet to air this season :). Saw a thing last week elsewhere that these remaining four will air straight through these next four weeks, too-no more long breaks in between new episodes. 

Oh yay!  I’ll look forward to it.  
 

I agree with the poster upthread about the accountant Larson’s partner.  How would she have been covered under her so called “roommate’s” health coverage?  Maybe, I’m reading too much into this. 

[DarkStar]

I really enjoy the show, but the social justice arc is pretty lame.  I watch to be entertained, not indoctrinated.  I'll give it some more time, but if this is the way the show is going, I'll be moving on to something less preachy.

[Cinnabon]

1 hour ago, DarkStar said:

I really enjoy the show, but the social justice arc is pretty lame.  I watch to be entertained, not indoctrinated.  I'll give it some more time, but if this is the way the show is going, I'll be moving on to something less preachy.

Indoctrinated how?