S01.E05: Gladys

[shapeshifter]

I think Laurie blowing the whistle was a way for her to show Patti that she was still dedicated to the GR.We were meant to think that she was going out to take part in Matt's service - but then she takes out the whistle, and shows that she really ran outside to try to stop an outsider from pushing his belief system on them. 

That was actually my initial interpretation, but then I got all confused when I read here that "it was an inside job." I had missed that Dog Shooter said that, and, although his tobacco chewing seemed a little too obvious to not mean anything, I hadn't connected it to the smoking of the smokers. So maybe the whistle blowing is both to demonstrate she's a good and loyal GR and doesn't need to be stoned to death, but also a cry for help from hot cop ex-hubby? I would just like to know what the writers intended us to think about the whistle blowing. Has anyone seen and Twitter postings about it from TPTB?

[ganesh]

I didn't take away any patient thing either.

[xlibris]

I wonder if that's info from the book coloring viewers' perceptions.

 

Even if it isn't — does it seem like the show is counting on a lot of us having read the book to fill in holes? Or is it just that people who have read it are making a ton of references to it? It's fine to compare one to the other, but I wonder if that's contributed to the show's problems for those of us who haven't read it.

[jcin617]

didn't notice any kind of a reveal about Laurie being Patti's therapist, either.

Patti said to Laurie at the table, "Remember what you told me to do in the last session before everything changed?"  just before she wrote "Neil" on the doggie bag.   I think the inference is that "session" refered to therapy.

Edited July 29, 2014 by jcin617

[A Boston Gal]

I didn't catch at all that Laurie was a therapist in her former life; my fault for not paying as much attention as I should. But if this was the case, and Patti was a former client, then my, how the wheels have turned. Laurie as therapist was in control of their relationship pre 10/14: and now, Patti as Leader is in control.

 

What a rush it must be for Patti to now have power over a former caregiver: even if the pre-10/14 relationship was warm and caring, it still must be a sensation that Patti will do anything not to relinquish. Because, who wants to go back to dealing with hurt and feelings when you can banish all feelings from your life wearing white, smoking, and leading a cult of followers that INCLUDE the person who was demanding you face this pain in the previous life?

 

My dears, if this connection is true, then we have stumbled on a good chunk of Patti's motivation for being a GR Leader. (The other chunks have to do with Neil and other unknowns.)

[ganesh]

I think the inference is that "session" refered to therapy.

 

That's fine, as much as this show is bs, but that's still fairly oblique since this is the first we've heard of their former lives allegedly.

 

This is just another example of poor execution. We really need to see something of their former lives as a frame of reference here. Not for nothing, all I can get from Liv Tyler is that she didn't want to get married. 

 

It's like TPTBs are excluded nearly all of the types of people that I'm interested in seeing.

[pandora spocks]

Holy Wayne's story line was absent this week and I, for one, couldn't be happier.  It always seemed to bring the rest of the show to a screeching halt.  If only something else could be done for the sake of this ambiguous mess.  I really want to like this but it's getting increasingly difficult.

Edited July 29, 2014 by pandora spocks

[izabella]

Patti said to Laurie at the table, "Remember what you told me to do in the last session before everything changed?"  just before she wrote "Neil" on the doggie bag.   I think the inference is that "session" refered to therapy.

 

I didn't understand half of what Pattie was going on about during that conversation, so I'm glad others did and can explain it.  I didn't catch this reference either.

[iMonrey]

The problem for me is that when the mob captured Gladys, tied her to the tree and stoned her to death, I was kind of on their side. And I don't think that's the show's intention. Not that I condone that sort of violence, mind you, but the GR just annoy the ever loving shit out of me so in the context of a fictional TV show, yeah - kill them all, please. 

 

And there seemed to be some kind of poster up on their compound wall that said something to the effect of "we will never let them forget." This suggests their purpose is to make sure the populace never forgets the Event where people vanished, right? So why were they picketing/demonstrating at the annual memorial for the departed? Wouldn't that be exactly the kind of thing they'd support?

 

It just feels like the show is being deliberately obtuse about the GR to keep the audience hooked and it feels manipulative and cheap. Like Lost. And I watched the whole episode sober as a judge and never got the impression Gladys' death was an inside job despite Dog Shooter's accusations of such. So if that's what I was meant to take away from the incident, then FAIL.

[ganesh]

The problem for me is that when the mob captured Gladys, tied her to the tree and stoned her to death, I was kind of on their side. And I don't think that's the show's intention.

 

I don't think they should be killed, but I am surprised there haven't been more violent incidents across the board. I'm surprised the police station doesn't have a bunch of people demanding the chief do something because the GR keeps following them around.

 

Where do they shop for groceries? Clothes? Buy the cigarettes? Does anyone refuse them service?

 

I think the dog shooter was just being the typical asshole guy. Like Pope on Falling Skies. When the chief said, "you were out there with them." He was like, "well, I don't know what I saw." Just shit stirring.

 

It just feels like the show is being deliberately obtuse about the GR to keep the audience hooked and it feels manipulative and cheap.

 

They seem quite obtuse about everything on the show. I'm very skeptical that there's a show bible, and there's minimal effort at world building. The details are just sloppy. There's numerous examples of what I like to call "manufactured drama": cryptic dialogue that doesn't mean anything, characters that don't naturally ask questions when a person would normally do so.

 

Not to mention that the GR is disingenuous itself. You can't talk. Except when you can. And just write everything down otherwise. We don't want people to forget. But they really aren't forgetting, there's a big monument in town. 

 

The chief has been investigating them for over a year, but this is the first time he's talked to anyone at the federal level. Not a, "hey, feds, who the fuck is in charge of the GR and why the fuck are they in my town?" 

 

I'm not really buying this patient/therapist bs either because the dialogue itself was obtuse. This seems to me a "this was in the book, so that's what they meant." Well, ok, but it was poorly executed for tv then. What I got out of it was "hey, you've had your crisis of faith, here's your chance to decompress, but you're going to have to get with the program now, understand?" Which is fine.

 

Given the multiple one on one conversations we've seen so far, they've really doled out next to nothing in terms of information. Maybe it would have been better to stick with just the chief's pov and we learn as he does. 

 

This is a lack of establishing what the group is so when you're writing, you have a framework to work off. 

Edited July 29, 2014 by ganesh

[Sims Addict]

Amy Brenneman has the sweetest job on TV. No lines to memorize!

[Milaxx]

I agree the show is still more obtuse than they need to be, but I found this week's episode one of the easier one's to follow. There has been steady build up indicating that the GR are jerks and possibly dangerous. I think by the time we get to see Gladys get snatched and stoned to death, we the viewers are expected to feel a little uneasy. Does she deserve it because of all the things they've been doing? Is this a bridge too far even for people who are not so nice.

 

For the record, I haven't read the books or read spoilers. Like jcin617 I assumed Laurie was Patti's therapist based on that exchange.

[Davey]

I don't believe for one second that the townspeople got together and decided to stone someone to death. That is a pretty barbaric thing for normal people to do even if they are being stalked and their houses being broken into. You'd think that there would be some kind of outcry though and maybe there is but it hasn't been shown at all. The writers are making the police Chief look like a moron. He knows who did it, they left fingerprints all over those houses and nobody got arrested. Surely he would have people all over town beating down his door demanding some kind of justice. Maybe they stole his shirts.

Edited July 30, 2014 by Davey

[Sofie Fatale]

I think the stone throwers are the ones that have been at it all along. The ones who threw paint at first, and who then clocked the pastor in his head two episodes ago. They're getting bolder and more dangerous.

[A Boston Gal]

About the shirt thing: Hotcop looked for his shirts in his closet, even rustling the empty hangers, and they, of course, weren't there. To me, this implies that he knows he had PUT them there, and somehow, now they're gone/taken. If it was just "oh shit, yeah...I forgot to go to the cleaners and pick up my eight shirts,"  he would have reacted differently... a more put-upon, exasperated expression at his own forgetfulness.

 

So, which is it? Did the shirts disapear from the closet, or were they never there to begin with?

[ganesh]

Or, he's a drunk and on pills and maybe prone to blackouts.

 

As stupidly put together as this show is, I didn't have a problem with the stoning since it's been shown previously, and since the first episode the hostility to the GR has been pretty clear.

 

The fact that there's nothing of consequence since the mass B&Es is ridiculous. I could buy that people are like, 'why haven't you arrested these people? We're taking care of this ourselves.'

[Davey]

But taking care of it themselves wouldn't jump from nothing(on screen or even mentioned) to stoning someone to death. Wouldn't they yell at them first. Vandalize their house second. Maybe throw a punch next. Then maybe put one in the hospital. Get a mob together and rush the church with bats and break some arms? There has been no escalation at all.

[iMonrey]

 

For the record, I haven't read the books or read spoilers. Like jcin617 I assumed Laurie was Patti's therapist based on that exchange.

 

It never occurred to me that Laurie had been a therapist. What I took away from the word "session" was that Laurie had some kind of "session" with Patti before she become a full-fledged member (?) of the GR. Like there was some kind of initiation process before you get your white outfit and stop talking. 

 

Here again, the framework of the GR is so vague it's hard to interpret what's being referred to.

[BensBritches]

I watched this episode twice (the stoning notwithstanding) and am still very confused.  Reading the posts here has cleared up some questions, but too many remain.  I have to say as a psychologist myself, I did not pick up on any vibe or sense that Laurie had been Patti's therapist.  The use of the word "session" and the fact that whatever they were referring to led Patti to leave a bag of something on someone's doorstep didn't make me think they was a proposed therapeutic intervention prior to the departure... but again, this may have been clear in the book which I never read.

 

I did not understand at all how members of the GR could just step away (out of?) from their cult existence and "be normal" whenever they wanted to.  Was I supposed to understand from this that once a member starts to "lose faith" (and in what, who the hell knows?), a "leader" will take them for a talking holiday to re-establish their beliefs/ dedication to the cult?  To threaten them into submission? So being a GR means you have to wear white, chain smoke, ignore others and never talk, but it's OK to take a holiday from all this when you need to?  Yeah, why not join then?

 

Also, did Laurie only join the GR 8 months ago?  I realize you can join the GR and not have to wear white, smoke or not talk (ala Meg), but Laurie indicated she hadn't talked in 8 months.  So that means she and Garvey were together for two years post-departure?  What happened in that time to send Laurie off to the GR?  That would be a more interesting story to me.

 

The GR are all about "never forget" and/or "nothing really matters anymore"?  It's too confusing.  Their message seems very contradictory to me. If they don't want people to forget, why would they B & E and steal everyone's photos?  And I second the question of who their leader is.  Who tells them what to do? There appears to be many versions of the GR all over the place since they are known to the ATFEC, so who exactly is in charge and what keeps people there and what led them there in the first place?

 

Why did Garvey care so much about keeping Gladys' body?  I missed the whole point of that.  I thought his underling was following SOP for "dead cult member" by sending the body to DC (or wherever it went).  Why did this upset Garvey so much?  What was he planning on doing?  Did he personally need the body to conduct his murder investigation?  Given Garvey's clear emotional instability, why is he even on the case? Why aren't the townspeople claiming his lack of action again the GR is due to his wife being a high profile member?  Surely the townsfolk recall who is wife is...

 

Why did Garvey go in person to Jill's school to tell her about the GR killing?  Why not just text her or call her?  It seemed overly dramatic and unnecessary.  Would word really spread to the school that quickly that he had to leave his job and tell his daughter in person?  Maybe I'm just too used to texting the LilBritches' nowadays, but I felt this was total overkill and done only to give Jill her "dramatic moment to cry."

 

And Garvey's shirts?  Yes, things in his life keep going "poof."  But was there relevance to the fact he was only missing white shirts?  I thought the idea was that the dry cleaner was giving dropped off white clothing to the GR... I have no idea if the shirts he got back were his or not or what the point of that whole plotline was.  And why was there a line out the door at the dry cleaner, but most places they go like a casino and a diner are empty?  Guess having a large sect of GR in your community is good business for a dry cleaner!

 

I could barely hear what the ATFEC guy was saying on the phone, but it sounded like he asked Garvey what was up with the GR's chain smoking... cuz Sheriff Rinky-Dink Town would know, right?  Then he offered to send in a hit squad to get rid of the GR.  We know they did that for Wayne's World.  Have they done that for other cults?  Other sections of the GR?  Are the multiple cults in communication with each other?  Do they know that the ATFEC can and will come after them and wipe them out with a single phone call?  Would the mass-shooting at Wayne's World not have been on the news?  Does no one watch the news?  Is it all censored?  Aren't there any lawyers left or the ACLU who would be out there decrying these events? 

 

I had more questions, but I forgot them already...

[ganesh]

Here again, the framework of the GR is so vague it's hard to interpret what's being referred to.

 

I don't really give a shit if it was a therapist/patient relationship, but no way was the scene definitive. Simply because in the absence of really any background information/world framework any outcome is equally likely. That's actual statistical theory. That is really the fundamental cheat of the entire show. We've seen no substantive flashbacks and no one is really saying *anything* that we can infer from. You shouldn't spoon feed the audience, but you can't have the audience just randomly filling in the blanks either.

 

They really need to show pre 10/14 flashbacks here and there, and I think the absence thereof is deliberate because they just haven't built this world. 

[Davey]

Here's another. Why are there so many wild dogs running around? I could understand this if 80% of the town disappeared but with only 2% gone and not one entire family there shouldn't be any orphaned dogs. Unless one of the disappeared was a loner who owned a Kennel that the town forgot all about and those dogs somehow escaped. Never mind that must be it.

[shapeshifter]

It never occurred to me that Laurie had been a therapist. What I took away from the word "session" was that Laurie had some kind of "session" with Patti before she become a full-fledged member (?) of the GR. Like there was some kind of initiation process before you get your white outfit and stop talking

That was my understanding too.

Here's another. Why are there so many wild dogs running around? I could understand this if 80% of the town disappeared but with only 2% gone and not one entire family there shouldn't be any orphaned dogs. Unless one of the disappeared was a loner who owned a Kennel that the town forgot all about and those dogs somehow escaped. Never mind that must be it.

All it takes is a few unspayed females to create a whole lotta puppies. In 3 years, there could be quite a few packs.

[Tim Thomason]

I guess the dogs going all "Terminator" is an unexplored (top secret?) effect of the Departure. It might just be increased aggressiveness in dogs (including non-escaped pets, like the ones that guy outside the compound had leashed).

 

The Dog Shooter I guess was named "Dee" or "Deke". The cops didn't bat an eye at the dead dogs found near Gladys, so I guess Dee/Deke has been doing a steady job these last few months and the police force has now accepted that their chief hasn't gone crazy (this way) and someone is shooting dogs all the time and they accept it.

 

Matt's show at the end, despite his voiced "good intentions" and all, was clearly just him getting back at them for bothering him so much and destroying his life. I don't think he minded Laurie blowing the whistle at him. He was just a bit sour that she ended his fun after only a few minutes.

 

There is one all-important, eye-raising, earth-shattering question I have. The most important unanswered question that the show has given me thus far: How did Laurie know about that whistle? She was away eating diner food or at Neil's when her (ex)husband stopped by, and we saw her arrive at the compound with no apparent notepad pleasantries being passed around. So, somehow she knew there was a box of whistles, and surmised that they were there to be used like rape whistles, to be blown indiscriminately when someone was bothering you. I guess Kevin may have left a note on the box. Something like "Hey idiots, use these whistles if you're under attack by any one of your innumerable enemies."

 

My vibe has been that the GR is larger than this one group, but nothing in this episode states that to me. The BATFEC's curiosity about the GR ("Why do they all smoke?") outright tells me that they are a very small cult barely on the Cult Investigator's radar (amidst a sea of dangerous cults, I'm sure), He might've read about them in a report of small-town cults in that state's region. That's probably not the case though, but perhaps Pattie was one of a group of founders of the cult who leads her own decentralized cell that is more bothersome than most.

 

Those shirts almost certainly don't belong to Kevin. That dry cleaners owner was scared out of his mind, and he was being confronted by the drunken police chief (known to abuse his power, see the earlier part of the scene where he purchases beer while drunk and almost DUI's away). He probably assumed calling the other cops would be a waste of time, and would lead to his arrest and perhaps deportation, and decided to just give away some white shirts. He didn't grab them all from one group, and had to cycle through a few sets to get to the requisite amount of shirts. In the unlikely event that next episode directly succeeds this one, then I suspect Kevin will find one of his shirts don't fit or is a woman's shirt or something.

[ShellSeeker]

 This show is utterly ridiculous. Worse than even John From Cincy. 

 

Oh, I must respectfully disagree with you. Nothing will ever be worse than that.

 

I have NO idea what is drawing her or Meg in.  Except a group that gives them permission to not give a shit and act like assholes.  

 

I sort of think that's the point, though. When Kevin dropped the whistles off at the GR house, he said something like, "Nobody understands what you stand for, or what the fuck you believe in." So I don't think that it's the writers being sloppy, I think it's that there's this group of nutjobs roaming around and nobody understands what their motivations are. The people who join them probably don't know either. People who join a cult -- any cult -- are usually lonely and disenfranchised, and looking to belong to something. The specifics don't usually matter. So yeah, it's annoying that we don't know much about the GR and what their views and beliefs are, but no one else does either.

 

So, the GR is known at the federal level, but no one knows anything about them? No one's arrested them for anything, maybe made a lawyer talk to them to figure anything out? I'm surprised no one suggested internment camps or something.

 

But if no one from the GR will say a single word, how much can anyone really learn about them? All you can do is wonder about what makes them tick, but no one knows for sure. 

 

This show is far from perfect, but for some reason it does keep me coming back each week. I don't know why, since everyone here makes very good points about its faults. I guess I'm just easily entertained. I think maybe its problem is that it's focusing too much on how unhinged everyone would be after something like 10/14, and not enough on how people would try to regain some sense of normalcy. Maybe it's a multi-season plan and S2 (if there is one) will have a different theme? Who knows?

[ganesh]

He probably assumed calling the other cops would be a waste of time, and would lead to his arrest and perhaps deportation, and decided to just give away some white shirts.

 

I don't think there's any indication that the guy wasn't a legal American. If he's an owner of the store who seems to know all the customers, it's possible he's legal. I didn't see anything to indicate he wasn't.

 

I sort of think that's the point, though. When Kevin dropped the whistles off at the GR house, he said something like, "Nobody understands what you stand for, or what the fuck you believe in."

 

That's totally fine for the residents of the town. However, the chief has been investigating them for over a year. Similarly, from a tv pov, we, as omniscient viewers, are privy to everyone's pov. There have been plenty of times where Liv Tyler talks to Judge Amy alone where we could have learned something. We had a huge scene where Patti, the *leader* was actually talking and said nothing. I don't think TPTBs really know what the GR is or their motivation. If they're planning for some big reveal, they're doing a poor job.

 

But if no one from the GR will say a single word, how much can anyone really learn about them?

 

Not to be an asshole, but that's a little short sighted. Arrest the shit out of them. Make them call a lawyer, get something out of the lawyer if they can. Investigate their tax returns, "follow the money." Get a friendly judge to issue a warrant. Tear the house apart looking for anything. Plant a mole. Bug the pledge house. 

 

Literally no one asked Liv Tyler why she was there? The chief sat directly across from her and didn't ask. That's just bad television writing. Even if she said, "I'm not telling you," he can still ask a few more questions. It's been established that people file missing persons reports and sometimes those missing people are actually at the GR. "Do you have any family that might do that? Should I go tell them you're here?" Find out where her family is. Go talk to them anyway. 

 

If the chief knows about them, then other chiefs know about them. Call them up maybe? I mean, come on. Generally, criminals don't talk. The FBI still managed to decimate the mob in less than 25 years using the right tools. 

[Palomar]

I would like to think that 5 episodes in the writers would have explained the GR by now, but it looks like neither one of us is going to get our wish.

 

 

Plus it would be nice to have some kind of flashback or mention when exactly Laurie joined the GR or an understanding why when she was fortunate enough to not lose any family members.  What could be so worthwhile about this cult that you would leave your kids at the most vulnerable time of their lives?  It is hard to be sympathetic. 

 

The music that runs through the show definitely haunts.

[Tim Thomason]

I don't think there's any indication that the guy wasn't a legal American. If he's an owner of the store who seems to know all the customers, it's possible he's legal. I didn't see anything to indicate he wasn't.

 

 

I think it's highly likely that he is, if not a naturalized citizen, a long-term documented immigrant to the nation. If he's still an immigrant, it's possible that after a period in jail from some trumped-up charge (attacking a police officer or something), he might be deported to his home country. He's probably the business owner of what appears to be a family business, so being deported would not only ruin his life thus far, but cause considerable hardship to his family.

[ganesh]

I think it's highly likely that he is, if not a naturalized citizen, a long-term documented immigrant to the nation. If he's still an immigrant, it's possible that after a period in jail from some trumped-up charge (attacking a police officer or something), he might be deported to his home country. He's probably the business owner of what appears to be a family business, so being deported would not only ruin his life thus far, but cause considerable hardship to his family.

 

Again, what evidence was given on the show to indicate he was not a legal citizen? Perhaps, if the chief threatened his citizenship status in order to make him open the door, then ok. But there's nothing to indicate this either way. It didn't even cross my mind whether he was legal or not in this episode, so I don't quite get where that interpretation would derive.

 

Plus it would be nice to have some kind of flashback or mention when exactly Laurie joined the GR or an understanding why when she was fortunate enough to not lose any family members.

 

I've said that in general plenty of times. There's no framing without knowing pre 10/14 life. Were they happily married? Where they on the outs anyway and she's using the GR as an escape. Totally reasonable, imo. Framing is part of world building and there's just been nothing here to work with. 

 

Why was Liv Tyler dragging her feet on this marriage for so long? Was the pastor's church normally full and then did they leave when he went on his anti-rapture jag.

 

There's just not really people on this show to me. And I'm not seeing what the narrative direction is. 

[RandomX]

Thanks for clarification -- I didn't immediately think 'therapy' based on the usage of 'session,' but I can see how people picked that up.

Any thoughts on Laurie's flash(back?) to the stoning? Did that imply her involvement, her suspicion / realization that the GR was responsible, or PTSD after finding the body?

I also feel like there's not enough context for me to understand basic motivations.

[ganesh]

After five episodes, the lack of context is so egregious that I think it must be a deliberate choice by TPTB. In which case, they've failed at grasping how a modern audience watches tv.

[Ronin Jackson]

I originally found the high concept premise of the show quite interesting.  But the show has not explored any aspect of the premise that originally fascinated me.  The focus on the GR, and especially how they've chosen tell their story, is killing this show.  In this episode we've finally gotten some minor information about their dogma and how it relates to the departure... they want everyone to forget something everyone wants to remember.  That's neither interesting nor plausible.  It's clear that they are meant to be something of a villainous, hateful group.  Ann Dowd is doing a fine enough job being someone who you want to see slapped in the face a thousand times by every other character.  But really all they have succeeded in making the group is annoying... and that's no big narrative accomplishment.  

 

The stoning at the beginning feels like something of a sanctimonious finger wag by TPTB.  They create a group about as subtle and creative as running finger nails down a chalk board, a group that is impossible to imagine wouldn't get beaten to a pulp on a regular basis in the real world, then when that finally does happen they shove our noses in the brutality of it.  It actually could have had some power if the GR had some other notable attribute than being really irritating.  Instead it just comes of feeling like the product of a creative team that doesn't have much respect for the audience. 

[Shermie]

They seem quite obtuse about everything on the show. I'm very skeptical that there's a show bible, and there's minimal effort at world building. The details are just sloppy. There's numerous examples of what I like to call "manufactured drama": cryptic dialogue that doesn't mean anything, characters that don't naturally ask questions when a person would normally do so.

 

No kidding, and it's getting irritating.

 

The music that runs through the show definitely haunts.

 

All I think of is The Truman Show.

 

There's no framing without knowing pre 10/14 life. Were they (Judge Amy and Hot Cop) happily married? Where they on the outs anyway and she's using the GR as an escape.

 

I wonder if she joined the GR when she discovered hubby was having an affair. Then it seemed like she escaped losing someone to the Departure, but was losing her husband anyway. I don't know... I'm grasping at reed thin straws here.

[GaT]

I wonder if she joined the GR when she discovered hubby was having an affair. Then it seemed like she escaped losing someone to the Departure, but was losing her husband anyway. I don't know... I'm grasping at reed thin straws here.

I wonder if they followed her around before she joined, is that how they get people (like Meg) to join?

[ganesh]

 

I wonder if she joined the GR when she discovered hubby was having an affair. Then it seemed like she escaped losing someone to the Departure, but was losing her husband anyway. I don't know... I'm grasping at reed thin straws here.

This is a totally reasonable supposition and I could buy that. The problem is the show needs to give us a window into that. It would have been kind of interesting, and, you know, actual good tv execution, if Liv Tyler was using 10/14 to delay a marriage she didn't want, and Judge Amy recruited her because of her own past marriage problems. It would have been a decent parallel and they could have developed that with the same ending here, with Liv smoking and writing on the tablet. 

 

How hard is that to do? It can't be that hard, so TPTB have some inexplicable agenda of not doing anything. 

[Blakeston]

Here's another. Why are there so many wild dogs running around? I could understand this if 80% of the town disappeared but with only 2% gone and not one entire family there shouldn't be any orphaned dogs. Unless one of the disappeared was a loner who owned a Kennel that the town forgot all about and those dogs somehow escaped. Never mind that must be it.

 

The explanation for the dogs was that the dogs who actually witnessed someone disappear immediately became feral, which led to them forming packs in the woods.

 

The idea isn't that they became strays because no one is left to take care of them.

 

I sort of think that's the point, though. When Kevin dropped the whistles off at the GR house, he said something like, "Nobody understands what you stand for, or what the fuck you believe in." So I don't think that it's the writers being sloppy, I think it's that there's this group of nutjobs roaming around and nobody understands what their motivations are. The people who join them probably don't know either. People who join a cult -- any cult -- are usually lonely and disenfranchised, and looking to belong to something. The specifics don't usually matter. So yeah, it's annoying that we don't know much about the GR and what their views and beliefs are, but no one else does either.

 

But if no one from the GR will say a single word, how much can anyone really learn about them? All you can do is wonder about what makes them tick, but no one knows for sure. 

 

But actual cults have some sort of stated purpose, that they use to recruit people.

 

Wayne, for example, is finding recruits by telling people that he has a direct line to God, and that he can magically absorb their pain. In real life, Jim Jones had a message about building a utopian society.

 

The GR's purpose seems to be, "We have complete faith in the world being meaningless, and we want to be a constant reminder of October 14 so that no one will ever forget it, and if anyone tries to remember October 14, we'll protest them."

[Davey]

 

 

The explanation for the dogs was that the dogs who actually witnessed someone disappear immediately became feral, which led to them forming packs in the woods.

The idea isn't that they became strays because no one is left to take care of them.

Was that explanation in the show or from the book? I don't remember anyone saying that. 

[ganesh]

The explanation for the dogs was that the dogs who actually witnessed someone disappear immediately became feral, which led to them forming packs in the woods.

 

This isn't entirely correct. The twins said this at the party I think and the chief's daughter quickly dismissed it as an "urban myth." So, there's no canon explanation.

[Davey]

Doesn't really make sense anyway, I've made a ball disappear right in front of my dogs many times and they didn't go feral.

[Blakeston]

This isn't entirely correct. The twins said this at the party I think and the chief's daughter quickly dismissed it as an "urban myth." So, there's no canon explanation.

 

How is what I wrote in any way incorrect? I said it's the explanation we were given - and it is the explanation we were given.

 

I specifically worded it that way, rather than saying "this is what happened to the dogs," because the show made it clear that not everyone believed that explanation.

 

For what it's worth, I definitely got the impression that we were supposed to believe the twin's explanation, as silly as it was. That scene in the pilot, when Kevin showed up at the woman's door to tell her that her dog was dead, seemed to support it.

 

She said that her dog disappeared immediately after her husband vanished, even though she was still around. The dog became feral as a reaction to its owner's disappearance, not because there was no one to take care of it.

Edited August 2, 2014 by Blakeston

[ganesh]

How is what I wrote in any way incorrect? I said it's the explanation we were given - and it is the explanation we were given.

 

It's not correct because it's not an canonical explanation by the show; it's conjecture by the characters. Because the daughter shot down their hypothesis.

So I got the tone of the original statement wrong. nbd, 

 

I don't think the dog that the chief found jogging was feral from what I saw. 

[A Boston Gal]

This show has a canon? ;)

[ganesh]

I know. I was thinking about that later. If the dog did go feral because "he saw something", then that sort of violates "we don't know anything" because one could view video footage all over the planet to either see if there's anything on the video or see if the people reacted to something just prior. If the dogs didn't go feral because they saw something, and only because so many of them are strays in three years, then that just violates reality to me. 

[bookrat]

I think the problem I have with this show is that I don't like any characters on this show. I mean, I DON'T LIKE any of them.

They could ALL get zapped up and disappear for all I care. If there isn't anyone to root for, or develop any feelings for, why watch? I don't see this show lasting very long. The characters are all so nasty and unlikeable.

Looks like there are new characters next week...maybe they'll be more appealing.

[ShellSeeker]

But actual cults have some sort of stated purpose, that they use to recruit people.

 

Wayne, for example, is finding recruits by telling people that he has a direct line to God, and that he can magically absorb their pain. In real life, Jim Jones had a message about building a utopian society.

 

The GR's purpose seems to be, "We have complete faith in the world being meaningless, and we want to be a constant reminder of October 14 so that no one will ever forget it, and if anyone tries to remember October 14, we'll protest them."

 

Personally for me, MMV on that. In my view, people join cults not because they believe in the message or mission as much as they want to belong to something, and don't really care what it is. It's the belonging that gives them validation and purpose, not the mission. The fact that Patti is, when you get right down to it, full of shit, kind of makes that point. The whole business about "taking a day off" from your religion where you get to sleep in a comfy bed, not dress like a disheveled homeless Wiccan, soak in the bathtub, eat a huge breakfast in the middle of the afternoon, and listen to Hall & Oates is just evidence of that. She doesn't have any deeply held beliefs that are driving her. She's in it for the power, and it seems like she gets off on being able to control people. My theory is that she was either a basket case or kind of mousy and insecure pre 10/14, since there was an allusion to Laurie being her therapist. Then post 10/14, after the world completely shifted on its axis, she saw an opportunity to transform herself into an influential, powerful person, and she took it.

 

Many people here have made very good points about the problems with this show. For the most part I agree, and yet I keep watching. I think I'm more willing to cut TPTB more slack because this is a really cool concept for a show, and so I'm willing to give them some latitude before completely writing it off. It's not yet another tired cop, lawyer, or medical drama. There was an article on this site awhile back about the same idea, applied to the AMC show Halt and Catch Fire. That was another one I really tried to watch and like, because it was a cool and different idea, but it was just too boring and I lost interest. Making this into a TV show can't be easy, so it may take awhile for it to find its footing. Yes, Damon Lindelof has absolutely made some missteps, but I'm willing to stick with it at least through the end of the season. I think the episodes get a little better each week.

Edited August 3, 2014 by Queasy-bo

[Guest]

I know. I was thinking about that later. If the dog did go feral because "he saw something", then that sort of violates "we don't know anything" because one could view video footage all over the planet to either see if there's anything on the video or see if the people reacted to something just prior. If the dogs didn't go feral because they saw something, and only because so many of them are strays in three years, then that just violates reality to me.

Let's presume (since watching this show requires a good deal of ths anyway) that the dogs really did go feral because of what they saw. Wouldn't this phenomena be true in every single other place where dog owners disappeared? And if so, wouldn't there be some sort of reporting of this phenomena and that the chief of police (or anyone else) might have been made aware of it?! As it is, this town seems to operate in some sort of vacuum, except when it doesn't (ATFEC). I can't keep up with the leaps in this show's logic.

[stillshimpy]

So there were a lot of problems here, I thought.  Not the least of which is that the show asked me to believe that a bunch of people -- people dressed in white, which unless you live on an arctic site is not likely to make for good camouflage -- went slinking around in people's house, reeking of cigarette smoke at a bare minimum -- and stole the most precious mementos from grieving people; yet no saw them in all their "we dress in white on a dark night, and have a nearly visible cloud of funk that accompanies us, because we're also not big with the bathing" glory?  

 

That one is hard to accept.  

 

Also, here's how I got that Gladys's murder was, indeed an "inside job" (thank you Dog Shooting Maniac) -- none of Gladys's tormentors spoke, and I'm sorry, but that seems incredibly unlikely.  If Gladys was killed as retribution for the GR's deeds, there would have been taunting aplenty.  Name calling, ,particularly when she started speaking.  For a crowd gone wild enough to brutally, hideously murder someone, no way do they all hold their tongues while delivering what they believe to be justice.  

 

But here's the thing, having figured that part out (or I think I have), I can't for the ever-living (and really challenged) sense and reason of my sanity figure out why they would kill her.  What do they get out of it?   If it was the townspeople, why not just (as others have said) burn the damned building down, or do the most obvious thing: Target Patti. 

 

 

 

don't need the cult to make sense to me, I just need to know why it makes sense to them.

 

I'm really with you here.  I'm actually fairly patient, but the show has told me no one knows what they believe and here's where my mind stalls:  Okay, if the crowd was townies killing Gladys, they'd have bloody well asked.  The GR would be a source of endless debate.  That part stops making sense, they'd speculate and speculate.  Now, the GR seems to also be made up of people from that direct area so the GR participants are people like Laurie and Meg, someone's ex-wife, and someone else's ex-betrothed, all local.  That might be why their headquarters weren't burned to the ground.  

 

However, that starts falling apart because the Chief has said, no one knows who they were before, so I have to circle back to :"yeah, after that photo stunt somebody would have gotten busy with forcible eviction proceedings".  

 

Also, in terms of Patti having been Laurie's therapist, I didn't even come close to getting that and I don't think it was implied by the word session, either.  I think, as near as I can tell, that the GR might be representing something like Scientology gone sideways and even screwier.  So I thought perhaps that Patti had counseled Laurie in the past for the GR, not as a therapist  in her prior life.  

 

The show intrigues me, but there's a reason I'm always a week behind.  It sits on my DVR until I've fully prepared myself for an hour of frustration disguised as entertainment.   It needs to be more intriguing and less "Okay, this really feels senseless."  We did hear something that would have led us to the death squad conclusion though -- the news clip about Wayne's compound being raided basically said that the cult members fired on the agents, leaving them no choice but to use force (or something very like that), when in reality, they stormed the compound ready to do things like kill unarmed (except for her ability to annoy) teens.  

Edited August 3, 2014 by stillshimpy

[ganesh]

My theory is that she was either a basket case or kind of mousy and insecure pre 10/14, since there was an allusion to Laurie being her therapist.

 

Not to keep jumping on the comparisons to Lost, but narrative wise, having some character flashbacks would be extremely useful. Especially when you main character doesn't *talk* in the show-present. It seems like such an obvious thing to do, again, I think TPTBs are being deliberately obtuse. Are we supposed to get some "oh shit" reveal? Is the town actually vanished? You can't just do an oh shit reveal without leaving some bread crumbs along the way. 

 

I can't keep up with the leaps in this show's logic.

 

It's one thing to nitpick, but it's completely another when entire swaths of the show are inexplicable. 

 

The show intrigues me, but there's a reason I'm always a week behind.  It sits on my DVR until I've fully prepared myself for an hour of frustration disguised as entertainment.

 

I watch it on Monday so I can post here. That's it. I don't have much else going on. 

[Davey]

Not to harp on the dogs since there are many other things to make fun of on this show but again only 2% of the pop. are up in heaven now. (Or being anally probed on an alien ship) So while that would leave everyone in total shock and change much of society the basic things would still get back to functioning normally and on the show they are. The US government is still working(so much as it does now), the local governments are still there, the police departments are still set up the same(though the stalking and B&E laws seem to have gone away), the garbage men are still picking up garbage and the dry cleaners are still stealing peoples shirts. Where then, is animal control? Where in this country are there packs of dogs running around? Sure that shit happens in Mexico (my car was surrounded by a pack once at a stop sign in Tijuana) but here in the states we have procedures in place to keep that from happening. Anyway...

 

 

 

I think the problem I have with this show is that I don't like any characters on this show. I mean, I DON'T LIKE any of them.
They could ALL get zapped up and disappear for all I care. If there isn't anyone to root for, or develop any feelings for, why watch? I don't see this show lasting very long. The characters are all so nasty and unlikeable.
Looks like there are new characters next week...maybe they'll be more appealing.

Agreed they are all dicks. I really want to like Justin Theroux's character because he is one of the most talented people on earth and I can't understand why he isn't one of the biggest movie stars out there. He was amazing as Patrick Bateman's coked up friend in American Psycho and the best part of the stupid but funny Wanderlust but still he hasn't gotten any major roles. The man wrote Tropic Thunder for god's sake so it's criminal that all people know him for is dating Jennifer Aniston. I was hoping that this show would put him in the running for bigger things and I guess it still could if people don't hold the writing against him. I hate that the writers have made him such an idiot albeit a semi sympathetic one.

 

I too will watch through the end of the season mostly because it's summer and my DVR is just about empty this time of year but I have no faith it will get better because Lindelof is the show runner. A book could be written about how stupid Prometheus was. I still think the first season of LOST is up there with my favorite TV of all time but when JJ went on to do movies and this putz was left in charge it fell apart with a vengeance. I can cut him a little slack because it must be impossible to write a story when you have no idea how many seasons it needs to stretch but just like this show there are too many things that he makes me care about that never get brought up again. The truck that the real/not real/real dog killer left in Theroux's driveway, where is it now? Why wasn't it registered? You'd think a cop would care. The break-ins were barely mentioned and probably won't be again but thank god he solved the bagel mystery. I'm not sure why I care but I need to know if those are actually his shirts or not (if so why were those guys jerking him around/ if not were they stolen two months ago during the break-ins?) and I'd be absolutely shocked if they are mentioned again. After all there's probably an all new mystery of the missing toothbrush coming tonight.

Edited August 3, 2014 by Davey

[A Boston Gal]

Personally for me, MMV on that. In my view, people join cults not because they believe in the message or mission as much as they want to belong to something, and don't really care what it is. It's the belonging that gives them validation and purpose, not the mission. The fact that Patti is, when you get right down to it, full of shit, kind of makes that point. The whole business about "taking a day off" from your religion where you get to sleep in a comfy bed, not dress like a disheveled homeless Wiccan, soak in the bathtub, eat a huge breakfast in the middle of the afternoon, and listen to Hall & Oates is just evidence of that. She doesn't have any deeply held beliefs that are driving her. She's in it for the power, and it seems like she gets off on being able to control people. My theory is that she was either a basket case or kind of mousy and insecure pre 10/14, since there was an allusion to Laurie being her therapist. Then post 10/14, after the world completely shifted on its axis, she saw an opportunity to transform herself into an influential, powerful person, and she took it.

 

Many people here have made very good points about the problems with this show. For the most part I agree, and yet I keep watching. I think I'm more willing to cut TPTB more slack because this is a really cool concept for a show, and so I'm willing to give them some latitude before completely writing it off. It's not yet another tired cop, lawyer, or medical drama. There was an article on this site awhile back about the same idea, applied to the AMC show Halt and Catch Fire. That was another one I really tried to watch and like, because it was a cool and different idea, but it was just too boring and I lost interest. Making this into a TV show can't be easy, so it may take awhile for it to find its footing. Yes, Damon Lindelof has absolutely made some missteps, but I'm willing to stick with it at least through the end of the season. I think the episodes get a little better each week.

Patti is probably in it for the power and control, but the whole "taking a day off" from the GR was just to test Laurie's resolve after her panic attack, just as she tested Gladys' resolve after she "started to feel" when she found out about her dead son. The whole night away/breakfast out the next day was merely a way to get Laurie to reaffirm her dedication. However, I agree that pre-10/14, Patti was probably a very different person who felt she had little control over her situation.

[ganesh]

So while that would leave everyone in total shock and change much of society the basic things would still get back to functioning normally and on the show they are.

 

This has gone back and forth here. I think there would be a lot of people whom this vanishing event didn't affect, and others who view it as a good thing. This would probably be more likely than a situation where Nora lost her whole family. The likelihood of losing three people directly to vanishing is 10^-33. Assuming the 2% is a worldwide average. This town seems to have a higher average. If that's a plot point, that's fine, but it needs to be communicated more effectively.

 

There would be more people obviously indirectly affected, like the pastor was, but I still think there would be a lot of places where the event just didn't affect anyone, and I find it hard to believe there's no one in the town like that.