Atlantic Crossing - General Discussion

[Dehumidifier]

When Olav was pleading for American weapons it made me wonder what Norway was doing in the years before while Germany was rearming. Did they not notice?

[Blergh]

I'm enjoying the show but there are getting to be more anarchronisms that are tough to contend with. For instance, the production makes it seem as though television broadcasts by FDR and Princess Martha were regularly happening when, in fact, not only were television sets themselves still quite expensive and scarce but only NYC and DC had broadcast stations and the pictures were still rather fuzzy with the vertical hold often flipping so, as far as I have been able to find out,  the only time FDR was on TV was during the 1939 World's Fair when he opened it and even then they used still photographs of him while airing his speech instead of live action for him.

Also, Princess Martha didn't speak to Madison Square Garden until 1943 not late, 1940. This is a crucial difference inasmuch as more folks openly chafed and were isolationists in the former year while by 1943, the US had been at war for nearly 2 years with our troops in the Pacific Theater and the public by and large were eager for the US to liberate the Continent from the NAZIs. Few if any folks dared to identify themselves as isolationists by this point. 

Now, it was nice to see Eleanor help Princess Martha gain confidence in public speaking (and it seems they DID become genuine friends) but it's hard to imagine the Real Life Eleanor having done those jazzy dance moves- as funny as it was to view. Oh, and I wish the script had had her admit that she (Mrs. Roosevelt) herself  had been  in actuality, a very shy person who had had to overcome her OWN fear of public speaking when FDR ran for President (and one can see her confidence build in newsreels from the earliest days  of his Presidency to the the twilight of her life in 1962). 

While I know that Missy LeHand was somewhat put out by the Crown Princess's presence and FDR's fondness for her, since she was his secretary who lived at the White House at HIS say-so (and had zero chance of ever  being anything more- much less his wife since he and Eleanor made it clear they weren't splitting), I seriously doubt she'd have attempted to threaten him to insist he stay there instead of going on a drive with the Crown Princess.

One thing is for sure, there's absolutely zero evidence that Princess Martha had anything beyond platonic feelings and gratitude for FDR and if she ever felt like kissing him, she sure kept it quiet (as in never writing it down, mentioning it in correspondence or to any of her associates,etc.). Oh, and while she was generous to Norwegian servicemen and did have them over to her house for lunches,etc. she did NOT have them stay overnight there.

Edited May 5, 2021 by Blergh

[Driad]

Very frustrating that they didn't get the history right, and that they threw in made-up things like the cyanide pills.  How many episodes does this go?  Not sure I can watch much more.

I wish that at least they had characters call each other by name more often.  It would make it easier to keep track of them. Especially the actress or character Eleanor dos not look much like the real Eleanor (to me) so sometimes I have seen a woman and wondered if it was Eleanor.  My eyes are not great but perfect vision should not be a requirement.

At least the captions say what language people are speaking. I don't know Norwegian or Swedish but they sound rather similar.

[Constant Viewer]

20 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

They mentioned a ship tied up in New York with Jewish refugees.  Was this the one the was turned away and forced to sail back to Europe?  Most of the passengers did not survive the war.

I wonder if this is meant to be the SS St. Louis or the SS Quanza?

Edited May 4, 2021 by Constant Viewer

[geauxaway]

This show has slowed way down, like too much down.  I find the content fascinating, as I never knew about Norway’s role in WW2.  But I don’t necessarily need a play by play account of it.  For the past 2 weeks I was sure we would make it to December 1941 within the episode and nope.

The highlight of this week was Nikolai (that’s his name right?) being reunited with his older kids.  I was SO relieved.

 

[Dowel Jones]

On another note, I found it hilarious, in light of the movies, that Martha's kids are calling FDR "Godfather".  So many iconic quotes to be slipped in there.

[andromeda331]

I've only seen the last three episodes. My dad's mother's family was all Norwegian-American and his father's side was all Swedish-American so I really love seeing Norway side of the war. I have a soft spot for Olav and Martha because they came to Minnesota during their 1939 where my dad's from. They came to the dedication of Enger Tower in Duluth. 

I loved Martha's impression of FDR and her and Eleanor dancing. Those were really great moments. I liked the meeting between Martha and Alfred how it didn't go well at first. But then she goes to the hospital with information about his family. That was nicely done. I loved the reunions with her secretary and Olav's guy (sorry I don't remember their names yet) and their children. His reaction to his daughter announcing her engagement was well done. Surprise, shock and then welcoming. I love the three children interactions and with their mother.  I liked her going to FDR's office and confidently talk to him about what they needed and how US had already given ships to UK. I liked her opening her home to Norweigan sailors. And how happy she was when about the applause to her speech. Good job.

I also wish that Eleanor would have mentioned she had been shy too. I've even wondered during FDR and Martha scenes if she reminds of Eleanor when she was shy.  

I didn't like Eleanor's jealousy and Missy's was just ridicolous about Martha. I didn't like the kiss. Or Olav taking credit for Martha's effort. Sure he planned to at the end but she had already gone. But we never saw him correct anyone on it. I did like Olav point out the sailors his wife was taking in were Norweigan to his father and suggesting they do the same. I liked confident Martha telling Olav it was her house. 

I don't mind Martha giving him the idea for the Lend-Lease but didn't like that he really wasn't doing anything. We know he was already trying to get around the policy and rules because he really did want to help Europe and wanted to get involved which they didn't really show. I did keep waiting for him to explain that if he was going to help (or in reality keep helping) he needed to reelected. They did point out that his opponent was new to politics but that wasn't really it either. The country really was against any kind of helping out in Europe. So FDR had to walk a fine line of helping but not too much that he wouldn't re-elected. 

Edited May 5, 2021 by andromeda331

[Dowel Jones]

So, apparently the series continues under a different title, called Empty Promises.

[doclouise]

As an historian I was really annoyed by the portrayal of Eleanor in Episode 4 and early Episode 5 (got better later).  Far from opposing Lend Lease and warning FDR of its political consequences, Eleanor was a much earlier advocate of aid to the Allies than Franklin.  She couldn't have cared less about the "popularity" of the America Firsters.  Also, she was the kindest person imaginable and would never have been nasty to Martha.  I am an older lady who had experiences meeting her as a kid and she was beyond gracious.

[dcalley]

On 4/12/2021 at 3:41 PM, Shanna Marie said:

I think they were speaking Swedish in Sweden (at least, I had a little harder time understanding it.

The (optional) captions say which language it is, which is nice.

Here's an article about the Bethesda, MD, house: Norway’s crown princess fled the Nazis with her children and lived in Maryland

[Blergh]

Well, Missy LeHand had the stroke months before Pearl Harbor with Martha nowhere near the scene! What's sad is that, after her initial hospitalization, she was sent to Warm Springs, Georgia where she tried to kill herself by eating chicken bones, then brought back to her room in the White House, but, being unable to coherently speak much less do her job, she wound up becoming more depressed than before  burning her bed while smoking in it so the Roosevelts and her family decided it would be best if she was sent to live with her sister in Massachusetts which was done.

Spoiler

FDR paid for her medical bills and (after ensuring his children would get the principal) had his will altered so she'd get half his estate during her lifetime for her care (with Eleanor getting the other half). Of course, as it turned out she'd die in 1944- a year before him so Eleanor 'inherited' her half the next year when he died. 

If Olaf and Martha had a period of estrangement over her feelings for FDR, they sure kept it to themselves

Spoiler

(and he never seemed to utter a peep against her but would lionize her memory in the   three and a half decades he would survive her- never remarrying).

 While it seems that this Fifth Columnist was trying to do harm to the Crown Princess via the U-boat in the episode, it seems she was but one target they had in their sites (including disrupting New York City's water supply). 

[Bunnyette]

Aside from flirting with FDR, Martha was quite busy during the war:

Wartime activities

why would the fifth columnist encourage her Nazi pals to come ashore when the place was crawling with secret service due to FDRs visit?

[Passing Strange]

7 hours ago, Bunnyette said:

Aside from flirting with FDR, Martha was quite busy during the war:

Wartime activities

Great link, thank you.

This illustrates what's so frustrating about this series for me. The writers did a huge amount of research and decided to ignore much of it. I'd rather know what Martha really did than watch things the writers made up, like her having influence on the Lend-Lease Act or being present when Missy collapsed. The truth about all of these people is interesting enough; there's no need to manufacture drama. The writers probably think they've covered themselves with the Fact or Fiction page for each episode. That only works if people actually read it. Many won't and will come away from this program with a distorted view of history. That's sad, because the fantasy really wasn't needed to make this a compelling narrative.

[zoey1996]

15 hours ago, Bunnyette said:

Why would the fifth columnist encourage her Nazi pals to come ashore when the place was crawling with secret service due to FDRs visit?

Did they know FDR & SS were there?

While FDR may have been enamored with Martha, I have seen no evidence that it was reciprocated IRL. She may have felt grateful, and friendship, but only platonic. I think the writers had enough for a compelling show without the soapy components. I would have preferred it without many of the fictional situations.

Edited May 11, 2021 by zoey1996

[sugarbaker design]

19 hours ago, Passing Strange said:

Many won't and will come away from this program with a distorted view of history.

Or many of us will realize this is a dramatization of historical events, not a documentary, and is not to be taken seriously.

[DoctorAtomic]

I'm behind, but I don't mind fictional accounts of history 'behind the scenes'. The broad strokes are factual; FDR was balancing isolationism against knowing he'd have to enter the war at some point. 

I don't know much about the northern European countries during the war, and Martha and the Prince are very likeable. That's all right for me. 

[Passing Strange]

10 hours ago, sugarbaker design said:

Or many of us will realize this is a dramatization of historical events, not a documentary, and is not to be taken seriously.

Sure. There are examples of both ideas right here in this discussion.

[Wallaby724]

On 5/10/2021 at 1:51 PM, Passing Strange said:

Great link, thank you.

This illustrates what's so frustrating about this series for me. The writers did a huge amount of research and decided to ignore much of it. I'd rather know what Martha really did than watch things the writers made up...That's sad, because the fantasy really wasn't needed to make this a compelling narrative.

That's kind of where I am...I love the show and I don't mind fictional portrayals of things, but I'm also frustrated that they thought it was necessary here. There was plenty of potential for drama and good storytelling without just making things up. 

I caught up on episode 6 tonight, and this is a really minor issue...but did anyone else not get why Ragni didn't leave for London the next day on her own so she could get to the wedding? I know Nikolai is stuck with Olav, but Ragni isn't...she answers to Martha and Martha told her she could go. She also shouldn't need her husband to accompany her because the plan was presumably for her to go alone, and I assume Martha had some plan for getting her there. I really wasn't following why Nikolai coming to Washington and being forced to stay meant that his wife couldn't leave either, like she and Martha had planned literally ten minutes earlier.

[DoctorAtomic]

I'm on the one with the passage of Lend Lease and Martha looked live she was going to kill the ambassador with that champagne glass. 

It looked like Olav was going to toast her though.

Every time they mention Lindbergh I keep thinking about The Plot Against America. 

Edited May 12, 2021 by DoctorAtomic

[DoctorAtomic]

Dumb question - Harry is supposed to be Harry Truman? He doesn't look like him. 

[Blergh]

1 minute ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Dumb question - Harry is supposed to be Harry Truman? He doesn't look like him. 

No, it's Harry Hopkins one of FDR's closest advisors.

 

Truman was barely even known to FDR in 1941 and wouldn't get picked for VP until 1944. Truman would only have two (2) meetings with FDR during his brief tenure as Vice-President before FDR's shocking death in May,1945. 

[DoctorAtomic]

I forgot when Truman was selected for VP. Obviously, I knew he was for 1944. I knew they didn't talk much, so I was confused. I know the show is taking some liberties, which I already said isn't a big deal to me, but that would have been a little much. 

It was highly short sighted of the Cabinet to deny Martha the tour and really just politically naive. They could have asked the US for security support under the auspices of Lend Lease. 

The Ambassador needs to get with the program too. Martha killed with the speech and is bringing aid to Norway. He was fine with latching on to her to get an audience with FDR, but he's all tepid about the tour. He could have arranged to be with her on the tour to up his own political stock. 

[DoctorAtomic]

I guess this episode is dump on Martha. 

I can buy the cabinet falling for tabloid gossip; again, naive because you want her to have his ear. 

No excuse for Olav though. I'm surprised she didn't smack him. 

[andromeda331]

I'm still not a fan of the way the show portrays FDR as doing nothing about the war. I get his shock and anger at the bombing of Pearl Harbor but telling Martha she was right was too much. He was one of the few who knew that sooner or later the US was going to have to get involved. It was the country that had zero interest in getting involved. He did everything he loaning weapons and tanks to building up the military which most who didn't want war thought him doing those acts was going to lead us into war or show that he really wanted to drag the country into it. Very few seem to realize that war was going to come no matter what. With Germany taking over Europe and Japan trying to do the same on the other side. They could have portrayed that. One o the reasons for FDR to support Martha's tour would be to bring her message to more Americans in hopes to get public opinion to change.  Pearl Harbor was the only thing that did that. 

I did like the portayal at Hawaii with the two guys seeing something on the radar and deciding to call it in. But then told it was probably just the B17s expected in from San Diego. That was 100% accurate. Japanese planes were picked up but they just assumed it was the planes expected in. Those B17s did show up in the middle of the bombing but couldn't be any help since they were unarmed and out of gas. 

I didn't like Olav showing up because he believed the rumors. That was really crappy of him. He should know his own wife. Plus she's the one who kept trying to convince him to come to with them to the US. Why would she turn around to have an affair? Come on Olav. Be smarter then that. Plus he made his friend miss his daughter's wedding. That's double crappy of him. I didn't like his wife missing it either. They both should have just left for London. She got the approval. And it was his daughter. Screw Olav. 

[LouiseIndy]

I've just watched the first two episodes.  I wondered why it seemed to be quite cold and snowy in Norway when Martha and her children escaped to Sweden, and when they arrived in Sweden it was so warm that ladies were outdoors in summer dresses.  Am I missing something here?

[DoctorAtomic]

20 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I'm still not a fan of the way the show portrays FDR as doing nothing about the war.

It's not really from FDR's pov, so I'm ok. He did have a conversation with Martha about how he was talking publicly about isolationism while telling her he knew they were going to have to get into it. And Lend Lease was covered well enough. 

[Blergh]

BAH! If one goes to the Fact or Fiction page, not only did they admit there not the slightest historic evidence that Olaf was insecure re Princess Martha staying true to him while being friends with FDR, FDR did NOT pettily bar him from launching the Norwegian battleship but also Mrs. Forbes did NOT attempt to kidnap the Norwegian royal children even though she was documented to have been a friend of Quisling's brother.  For the reason FDR warned Princess Martha to keep the family away from Mrs. Forbes so as to not take any chances and that, evidently was that, with no sabotage or kidnapping attempts happening. Ah but the show's writers  they said that they hoped this 'creative license  wouldn't harm Mrs. Forbes's legacy '... what legacy? How many folks outside her family had heard of her in the last seven decades before this show depicted her as a Fifth Columnist eager to sabotage Crown Princess Martha and FDR as well as have the former's children kidnapped?  Truly,if they wanted to depict how the family was worried about those kinds of  true threats,  they should have just concocted an entirely fictitious character with a completely different name to have attempted these deeds. Oh, and the cable from FDR to Crown Princess Martha about her mentioned that Mrs. Forbes was Norwegian-born but this character seemed as US American as an Andrews Sister single AND didn't seem to understand the Norwegian spoken around her. 

Virtually, the only positive things this episode achieved was showing King Haakon presenting Crown Princess Martha with that honor in her own right AND the  latter launching that ship (which both DID happen). 

 While it was true that Buckingham Palace was rather. ..austere  during that time with the tubs measured very carefully to make sure no one used more than a tiny amount of water, there was no evidence that Eleanor unburdened herself to Olaf about her own marriage (though what she was depicted as saying was essentially true but I seriously doubt she'd have shared that with anyone but her closest and must trustworthy friends). Of course, with the Blitz having carpet bombed so much of London and few if any metals could be spared for plumbing repairs when so needed for the war effort, the Palace was lucky to HAVE any kind of running water (not all Londoners could say the same -even those whose homes had been thusfar spared). 

Edited May 17, 2021 by Blergh

[Bunnyette]

Olav was a much loved King of Norway, to show him as jealous and petty is just bad.  Same for FDR, “I’ll give the ship to Belgium unless Norway sends Martha!” .  While some creative licence is expected, defaming historical figures characters  (2 of Olav’s children are still alive) is small minded and mean.

[Blergh]

2 hours ago, Bunnyette said:

Olav was a much loved King of Norway, to show him as jealous and petty is just bad.  Same for FDR, “I’ll give the ship to Belgium unless Norway sends Martha!” .  While some creative licence is expected, defaming historical figures characters  (2 of Olav’s children are still alive) is small minded and mean.

Totally agree- and it's not just Olaf and FDR's survivors who would have every right to be furious over this but also, if Mrs. Forbes has any survivors, they also likely must be chewing nails.

Yeah, the 'Fact or Fiction' page may get them off the legal hookeroo but that doesn't mean it was right for them to depict these actual folks having said and done things that there's ZERO evidence beyond the writers' concoctions that they did!

Edited May 17, 2021 by Blergh

[BuckeyeLou]

5 hours ago, Bunnyette said:

Olav was a much loved King of Norway, to show him as jealous and petty is just bad.  Same for FDR, “I’ll give the ship to Belgium unless Norway sends Martha!” .  While some creative licence is expected, defaming historical figures characters  (2 of Olav’s children are still alive) is small minded and mean.

It made me feel sad to think Olav was such a "jerk" to his wife, so petty & jealous...so I am glad to know he was beloved when he became King & to know a lot of this is made up for drama.

[Shanna Marie]

51 minutes ago, BuckeyeLou said:

It made me feel sad to think Olav was such a "jerk" to his wife, so petty & jealous...so I am glad to know he was beloved when he became King & to know a lot of this is made up for drama.

He never remarried even though she died fairly young, and they were known to have had a very good relationship (they met as children), so I think a lot of the marital strife is pure TV drama.

[DoctorAtomic]

Just taking within the context of the show, I think part of Olav being pissy is that he's been largely ineffectual he knows it. They put Martha in Washington and she made the most of it for Norway and he's complaining. 

[dcalley]

I loved the little detail of the man rising up on his toes when his photo was taken with Olav. (I'm a couple of weeks behind.)

This was posted in April, but I don't believe anyone linked to it yet. 'Atlantic Crossing': Exploring the Real-Life History Behind the Masterpiece Series

[proserpina65]

On 4/26/2021 at 4:54 PM, Dehumidifier said:

My father's family lost two members in WW2. I don't think they were fans of FDR. My father used to say the Democrats always get the country into wars.

Funnily enough, it was my father's family who supported Roosevelt, despite having 3 members off fighting the war, and my mother's family, mostly farmers who got vital job exemptions, who didn't.  To be fair, my father's family suffered much more from the financial situation during the Depression, so that had a lot to do with it.

I'm really caring less and less about Martha in America, and seriously wish the series would spend more time with Haakon and Olav in London, but I realize that's not gonna happen.

On 5/3/2021 at 7:56 AM, Dehumidifier said:

When Olav was pleading for American weapons it made me wonder what Norway was doing in the years before while Germany was rearming. Did they not notice?

It's been my impression from things I've read that a lot of Europe didn't pay a lot of attention to Germany rearming until it was too late.  Many of them were tightly focused on their own economic problems to think too much about Germany, unfortunately.

[proserpina65]

On 5/18/2021 at 2:10 PM, DoctorAtomic said:

Just taking within the context of the show, I think part of Olav being pissy is that he's been largely ineffectual he knows it. They put Martha in Washington and she made the most of it for Norway and he's complaining. 

I didn't take it so much as him complaining as him chafing at not being able to do more.

Honestly, I'm very glad I read up on Olav and Martha after the first episode so that I realized just how fictionalized this series is.

On 5/15/2021 at 6:56 PM, andromeda331 said:

Plus he made his friend miss his daughter's wedding. That's double crappy of him. I didn't like his wife missing it either. They both should have just left for London. She got the approval.

I'm not sure how it would've worked for them to get passage to London without the Crown Prince's permission.

[BradandJanet]

Weren't these London to Washington flights dangerous? The characters seem so casual about the trips. 

[Dowel Jones]

On 5/17/2021 at 7:57 AM, Blergh said:

Totally agree- and it's not just Olaf and FDR's survivors who would have every right to be furious over this but also, if Mrs. Forbes has any survivors, they also likely must be chewing nails.

Yeah, it happens.  Johnny Cash's daughter Roseanne, who is very much alive, hated the movie Walk The Line.  Her comment likened it to 'having a root canal without anesthetic.'

 

On 5/19/2021 at 3:14 PM, BradandJanet said:

Weren't these London to Washington flights dangerous? The characters seem so casual about the trips. 

Reading up on it on other sites, the one thing America was prepared for prior to WWII was air transport.  Routes had been scouted, airports had been negotiated, and, when war broke out, 200 civilian airliners were transferred to the government.  Civilian traffic was severely restricted, but royalty has its privileges, no doubt.  I couldn't find any information about losses but, since the Luftwaffe was fully engaged in Europe, and they didn't have any refueling bases out in the mid-Atlantic, it's not likely that they could expend resources looking for isolated planes.

[David from DC]

With the amount of tobacco use in this series--even having someone hand FDR a cigar right after he's been coughing!--does anyone but me wonder whether the tobacco industry helped fund the series? And to the argument that a lot of people smoked in this era, sure. A lot of white people openly expressed racism in this period too. How much openly expressed racism did you hear in the series? How important to the story was having everyone smoke?

[sugarbaker design]

Excellent ending including a triumphant return to Norway and archival footage.   

[BradandJanet]

For all its inaccuracies, this show became my Sunday evening viewing pleasure. I'm going to miss it. 

[zoey1996]

Good wrap up episode. Sad regarding the war widow losing her child so close to losing her husband in the war, but words of wisdom regarding old vs. new Norway.  The archival footage showing the real family was good to see.

Interestingly, I had just been wondering how the children viewed returning to Norway. They had been gone so long, and enjoyed a relatively comfortable life in the US. I was happy they didn't have to see their home as it had been occupied and then vandalized by the Nazis. Nice that Olav saw the error of his ways, fictionalized though it was, and they resumed life together.

[sugarbaker design]

1 hour ago, zoey1996 said:

Interestingly, I had just been wondering how the children viewed returning to Norway.

Right!  Harold didn't even remember his old home, so it was so new to him upon arrival.

1 hour ago, zoey1996 said:

Sad regarding the war widow losing her child so close to losing her husband in the war, but words of wisdom regarding old vs. new Norway.

Heartbreaking.  Grim reminder that for every tragic loss during the war there's so many more suffering from those losses.

[Blergh]

Although the episode seemed to set up the almost certainly fictionalized concept of Olaf about to become a hopeless alcoholic and womanizer before King Haakon endorsed his plum assignment to be part of the last push to liberate Norway, one has to wonder why it was that Princess Martha and FDR seemed to have had only the most sporadic of visits in the last part of his life.  Could it have been that one or both simply had too much going on (FDR giving all he could to win WWII despite failing  health and/or Princess Martha campaigning for Norway's cause) or may it have been one or both losing interest in spending time with the other (which could have happened even if Martha had had no marital strains). It also should be mentioned that (and would have been nice to have had depicted) that they WERE guests at FDR's unprecedented 4th Inauguration  Oddly, not only did they depict how the new President   dealt with the Norwegian royals in the aftermath of FDR's death and the last weeks of the European Theater  but the show didn't even utter his name (or even mention that there WAS a new President). I don't doubt President Harry Truman was perfectly cordial to them but he was known to be scrupulously faithful to  his wife Bess (one time sternly and  icily turning down a 'freebie' for a hookup with Berlin sex workers via a US soldier acting as pimp while he there to negotiate with the Four Powers in the aftermath of WWII). Still, virtually everyone in the US and in Allied countries were understandably apprehensive re what this virtually unknown Truman would do and how (or even IF) he could lead the Allies to victory - and no doubt Haakon, Olaf and Martha would have shared that concern). 

Still, it was nice to see them returning to Norway to (factually) cheering crowds and reunited with their bonds renewed (although historical evidence seems to be bear that their bond didn't actually get strained or poisoned despite the lengthy wartime separation and Martha's interactions with FDR (and it seemed Olaf by giving a picture of Martha and the late FDR for her own office was no longer threatened but recognized that he had been nothing more than a friend to the family when they needed it the most) . Of course, it was sad to read that Crown Princess Martha died in 1954 at age 53 before her father-in-law so she never became Queen but, in addition to Olaf never remarrying despite reigning for 33 years and outliving her for 36 before his death at age 87, her death had to have been quite a stunning blow to her children with the future King Harald V being just 17 when they lost her! Yes, Olaf V became  a beloved and popular king but it is known that he and the new Crown Prince Harald weren't above their own conflicts. Most notably when Harald wanting to marry a Norwegian commoner with King Olaf V initially opposed to it saying he needed to marry a Royal princess. Harald checkmated him by telling him that if he couldn't marry the love of his life, he wouldn't marry AT ALL- and since his sisters (and their offspring) couldn't inherit the Norwegian throne at that time, that would have meant that the dynasty would have ended with Harald himself. Yes, King Olaf V quickly realized that it was better to have a commoner future Queen than no queen (or future heirs) at all so he quickly urged the Norwegian parliament to back Harald's intended marriage to Sonya Haraldsen in 1968. One can't help but wonder if Martha would have sided with their son or backed her husband to see if they could persuade him to marry a princess.  I also can't help but wonder if Eleanor Roosevelt and Olaf ever compared notes re their late spouses before Mrs. Roosevelt's death in 1962.

Edited May 24, 2021 by Blergh

[BradandJanet]

I like that Olav gave Martha her own office in the restored palace, as it seemed she didn't have one before, true or not. This gesture acknowledged her contributions to the country and the monarchy beyond just hosting social events.

I'm also glad someone was taking care of the horse while everyone was away. 

[Blergh]

22 minutes ago, BradandJanet said:

I like that Olav gave Martha her own office in the restored palace, as it seemed she didn't have one before, true or not. This gesture acknowledged her contributions to the country and the monarchy beyond just hosting social events.

I'm also glad someone was taking care of the horse while everyone was away. 

I imagine the part about reuniting with their old horse may have been fictionalized. However, even the NAZIs liked to use horses for their military reviews so no doubt they'd have been happy to use the Royal thoroughbreds for that purpose  instead of going to the trouble  to send them to the glue factory then   importing some from Germany so they would have hired  folks to care for that horse during the Occupation. Then,too, it was only weeks after the NAZIs surrendered that Olaf was back trying to rebuild so it's possible that the horse that had gotten loose from the barn could have grazed on his own until Olaf's return, although there may have been folks who could have helped care for the former Royal horse in the interrum.  Even though it's likely fictional, it's interesting to contemplate. 

Of course, it should be noted that Olaf and Harald DID honor the late Crown Princess Martha's contributions many times in the decades following her early death. 

[andromeda331]

I loved everyone's excitement at hearing the war was over. That was so great. One of the girls running out to tell everyone. Olav and Haakon hearing the news and hugging. 

I loved the returning to Norway it was really great. From Olav arriving first and walking through their home and the horse to the big welcome home of Haakon, Martha and the children. I loved Olav coming out to meet them because he couldn't wait and giving Martha her own office. I'm glad he stopped being a jerk. 

I feel for the poor widow. Losing her husband and baby? That's so tragic. I do like that it got to Olav and her words about the future. She's right. They couldn't go back to how things were before the war. Too much had happened.

I'm surprised we didn't see Martha or Olav worried about after FDR's death about what would happen? Would the new president fight for Norway the way FDR probably would have given their friendship? They did portray the news of FDR's death pretty good. 

I wish we got to see the other family's reunion instead of just showing them already in Norway. I also wish they had followed up the kids reaction to Norway. We got one of the girls and the other boy talking about not wanting to go back to Norway and Harald not speaking Norway or recognizing their old home. Did they really want to go back? What did Harald think considering how young he was when they left. He might not have any memories of Norway.

[geauxaway]

Even though it took a very weird and drah-mah-tic turn in the last couple of episodes, I did enjoy winding down my Sunday nights with this.  I also did learn a lot about this part of the war, even with the inaccuracies (I appreciated the fact / fiction articles on PBS.org) and found myself looking things up during and after every episode.  

[sugarbaker design]

27 minutes ago, geauxaway said:

and found myself looking things up during and after every episode.  

Same here.  Was fascinated by the story of the odious Quisling.

[Dowel Jones]

The interview with Sofia Helin is very interesting concerning the behind the scenes efforts in making the series, particularly the hierarchies of royalty and the required behaviors around others.   She even says that she would get out of her period dress during breaks because it was so uncomfortable. 

Going back one episode, I was really surprised, after reading the Facts Version Fiction page, that General Fleischer really did commit suicide.

I have always wondered how much briefing FDR's staff gave Harry Truman before his ascendancy to the Presidential office.  It would seem to be extremely negligent of them, realizing that FDR really was dying, not to tell him about so many of the things going on in the nation and the world, but we are always led to believe that, basically, he was told one day that FDR was dead and he was now in charge.

Watching Prince Olav get toasted along with the locals brought back memories of the stories of Princes William and Harry in England, and what a job it must be to be the minders of a royal family.  I did like the scene where his assistant slapped him out in the street, saying "I am not your father."  Yeah, you might be a Prince, buddy, but right now you're behaving like a drunken ass.

I found something interesting in the scenes of their arrival in Norway.  The Prince and Princess were waving to the crowds with their palms inward, and using kind of a 'come here' motion, instead of the palm outward, side to side motion here in the USA.  Is that common in Europe?  I hadn't seen it before.

6 minutes ago, sugarbaker design said:

Same here.  Was fascinated by the story of the odious Quisling.

There's probably a great backstory to the aftermath of Edward VIII's abdication of the throne of England.  He was known to have great empathy for Adolph Hitler,  and Churchill arranged to appoint him Governor of the Bahamas, safely out of the way and any possible intrigue.

[sugarbaker design]

1 minute ago, Dowel Jones said:

The Prince and Princess were waving to the crowds with their palms inward, and using kind of a 'come here' motion, instead of the palm outward, side to side motion here in the USA. 

Isn't that particular palms inward wave known as the royal wave?